Diabolical Lies - March 23, 2025


MAHA Moms & the Politics of “Wellness”


Episode Stats


Length

2 hours and 54 minutes

Words per minute

168.49

Word count

29,343

Sentence count

1,758

Harmful content

Misogyny

119

sentences flagged

Toxicity

246

sentences flagged

Hate speech

95

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Today's episode of Diabolical Lies was brought to you by the Sarasota chapter of Moms for Liberty,
00:00:06.760 Charmin' Ultra Strong, which has been a mainstay in the homes of Austin, Texas moms who are already
00:00:11.460 on their third rounds of coffee enemas for the year, the Global Elite's foiled plot to poison
00:00:16.160 the whites with seed oil, Big E. Coli and its covert soft power influence campaign for raw
00:00:21.660 milk consumption, and folks, it is my absolute pleasure to reintroduce one of our favorite
00:00:28.300 sponsors. Barry Weiss again, somehow. No, Barry Weiss is in this? She sure is. Today, we are going
00:00:37.720 to talk about the extreme levels of health misinformation radicalizing maha mamas all over 0.97
00:00:45.600 America. And part of the challenge is that this phenomenon is almost too broad and wide-ranging
00:00:53.360 to discuss it as though it's this one coherent thing. So the constituents of Maha land ranged
00:01:01.100 from semi-reasonable, if overblown, concerns, sort of backed by science, to outright QAnon 0.77
00:01:07.940 conspiracy slop. So I really thought, Caro, that when I went into researching this episode a couple
00:01:13.960 weeks ago, I thought I was going to go into this and find myself agreeing with the basic claims of
00:01:20.780 Maha, but then disagreeing with their chosen strategy. I don't know if you watched all of
00:01:26.220 those Hulu docudramas about the FDA's failure to regulate Purdue Pharma and, like, the opioid
00:01:31.280 crisis. No, I have not watched that. I've watched a ton of that kind of stuff. I don't know. I've
00:01:36.760 been hearing for years about how terrible and unsafe our food supply is. It wasn't really a
00:01:42.900 stretch. It wasn't hard for me to believe that there really could be extreme problems with the
00:01:46.580 way that our food is made, that the food itself is bad. Obviously, I'm a big proponent of the idea
00:01:50.880 that the healthcare system is supremely fucked and that Ozempic is just another big money grab 0.96
00:01:55.460 that doesn't address root causes, blah, blah, blah. But that is not where we're going today. 0.97
00:02:02.700 To begin, there are a few top-line takes that I feel like are pretty obvious when we talk about
00:02:10.060 this topic. The crunchy to alt-right pipeline. That was coined by a historian named Kathleen
00:02:16.460 Ballou in 2022. I feel like that ground has kind of been tread. Another one would be that, like,
00:02:23.860 well, mothers are a notoriously, like, under-resourced and under-supported cohort of
00:02:29.120 society, and their concerns are so rarely taken seriously that, like, it makes them very vulnerable
00:02:34.880 to conspiracy thinking. And I think that like we can have compassion for that and can have
00:02:40.280 compassion for that situation while also pointing out the ways in which reality doesn't quite
00:02:45.440 support it. Yeah. No, I was just going to say, I'm really excited to talk about this today
00:02:50.000 because some of my most rational friends have been the ones who have been most excited for us
00:02:54.800 to talk about this. People who are like very centrist have been asking us to cover this and
00:03:01.920 being like, when are you going to talk about make America healthy again? And I think that that
00:03:04.480 really indicates the extent to which it is infiltrating literally every single level of 1.00
00:03:10.180 the political spectrum for women. To me, like, as I was going through this, the canary in the coal 0.99
00:03:15.240 mine that undermines this explanation of, oh, all these concerns are super legitimate, is that
00:03:22.440 which groups in American life, past and present, would have the most reason to be skeptical of the
00:03:28.640 medical establishment or, like, distrusting of medicine. If this movement were really about
00:03:34.240 what it says it's about, who would be the first people to jump on board? I can think of a couple
00:03:39.940 just off the top of my head. First and foremost, Black Americans. You think about the history of
00:03:45.380 forced sterilization. You think about medical experimentation, like the Tuskegee experiment.
00:03:50.020 You think about the fact that there is still widespread medical discrimination for, like,
00:03:54.060 Black women giving birth or expressing pain. If this movement were really about legitimate
00:03:59.640 grievances with the shortcomings of our medical system, I think you would expect to see some 0.98
00:04:03.820 Black women at the forefront. And you really don't. Another group that I was like, hey, 1.00
00:04:08.480 I would expect these people to be really in the mix here, fat folks. Most fat people will tell 0.92
00:04:14.660 you. If I go to a doctor about anything, they'll tell me it's because I'm fat and tell me to lose
00:04:19.020 weight. And more recently, they might prescribe me a pharmaceutical that I may or may not want
00:04:24.260 in order to, again, irrespective of why I'm seeking medical attention, make me not fat
00:04:29.020 anymore. Then you have gay and trans people who have been subject to discrimination, stigma,
00:04:35.520 mistreatment in healthcare settings, everything from being misgendered by someone who does not
00:04:39.820 understand trans healthcare to being just denied care outright. We could keep going. There's the
00:04:44.880 other group that I feel like we're going to spend some time on today, which is those who are most
00:04:49.140 likely to not have access to healthy food to begin with. Like, who is most likely to work a job with
00:04:54.840 erratic or unpredictable hours, which makes planning meals, cooking from scratch so much
00:05:00.260 harder? Who is most likely to actually just lack access to medical care to begin with? Poor
00:05:05.640 Americans. Rural Americans. But again, by and large, none of these people are the ones who 1.00
00:05:11.720 are saddling up the Maha bandwagon. I'm just imagining, like, a crowd of rich white women just 0.99
00:05:16.720 furious. I interacted with a ton of content for this episode, and, like, the crunchy mom thing 1.00
00:05:25.060 is overwhelmingly a preoccupation of thin, waspy mothers in heterosexual nuclear families, 0.67
00:05:34.700 often upper income and it's almost always couched in this fear or this concern of for our children 0.96
00:05:44.300 it's about the children right or like relatedly it's anxiety about fertility
00:05:47.920 yep so every time today that you hear me read a quote or we watch a video are you gonna do an
00:05:54.420 accent you have to do a texas accent or we watch a video where someone talks about harming children
00:06:04.380 I want you to keep asking yourself, which children? Whose children is this for?
00:06:12.100 Which children does this help? Okay, so Kara, when was the first time that you became aware
00:06:17.820 of this like Maha thing, whether by that name or another name?
00:06:22.980 I hate to admit this, but it was a certain right-wing influencer that we've covered.
00:06:29.740 Have we covered her before? I know who you're talking about, but I feel like we haven't really
00:06:33.140 covered her. We have covered her. This is I'm thinking of her. She was on our liberal to brave
00:06:38.080 independent thinker pipeline. Oh, good, good, good. Okay. So really, a lot of this started in
00:06:45.100 earnest and like really began picking up during the pandemic. So obviously, this is like a moment
00:06:51.800 of huge global shakeup, right? It's a time of profound fear, profound uncertainty. And so I
00:06:59.220 think before we dive into the specifics, we have to talk briefly about the information ecosystem
00:07:05.300 that is enabling all of this to happen. There is a paper from the Brookings Institute called
00:07:12.020 From Anti-Vaxxer Moms to Militia Men, Influence Operations, Narrative Weaponization, and the
00:07:19.000 Fracturing of American Identity by Dana Beth Weinberg and Jessica Dawson. And it basically
00:07:25.980 defines the role of narrative as social stories that help people understand events and assign
00:07:32.700 moral meaning. So I did a lot of like digging into conspiracy theories, rabbit holes,
00:07:40.060 how this works. I found this one woman whose Etsy shop sold tank tops that said 0.99
00:07:45.460 rabbit hole enthusiast. And the descriptor tags were like, red pill, awake, like all these
00:07:52.520 different just perfect it's like oh my god basically what i found is that most people
00:07:57.100 who engage with conspiracy theories they'll find them entertaining they'll find them amusing it'll
00:08:02.440 be like essentially harmless but there will be a minority of people for whom the consequences are
00:08:08.700 far more dangerous and for those people the researchers classify the process for that
00:08:14.720 minority as inadvertent, accelerating, and eventually entrenched. You basically have
00:08:22.420 social media functioning like this ground zero, where that minority of users who interacts with
00:08:31.040 conspiracy theories and basically doesn't just stop at finding them entertaining or amusing and
00:08:36.480 harmless, but really allows them to gain idea share. So this is what the rabbit hole syndrome
00:08:44.860 study found. An observational study of Facebook users showed that as people's conspiracy beliefs
00:08:53.160 strengthen, they increasingly interact with like-minded internet users, avoid users who
00:08:58.220 challenge their beliefs, and consume an increasing volume of conspiracy content, which strengthens
00:09:03.600 conspiracy beliefs further can i just say it really speaks to what period of time that we're
00:09:08.620 in that right now the feeling that i'm having is comfort that there are some people who don't
00:09:15.220 believe the conspiracy like i'm not like concerned about the portion that fall down the rabbit hole
00:09:20.740 i'm just like oh my god there are some who don't awesome it's like that one review that we got
00:09:27.280 that was like, this is like anti-misinformation.
00:09:30.980 And you were like, so information?
00:09:33.300 Like, blow my brains out.
00:09:34.920 We're so far gone.
00:09:36.760 One thing to keep in mind about conspiracy thinking,
00:09:40.620 because I think something you'll hear is like,
00:09:41.760 well, some conspiracies are true.
00:09:43.260 Like, some conspiracy theories end up being proven true,
00:09:46.100 is whether or not a theory is very narrow or very diffuse.
00:09:50.180 So the conspiracy theory that Richard Nixon's team
00:09:54.120 broken to the Watergate Hotel to steal documents and wiretap phones, that's narrow, right? It
00:10:00.480 involves like specific actions taken by a discrete number of actors. Whereas a conspiracy about,
00:10:08.040 say, a scheme to sex traffic children among a cabal of global elites, that's very diffuse.
00:10:14.200 You have to ask yourself, okay, in order for this to be true, in order for this to be like
00:10:18.820 some crazy secret. How many people would have to be keeping this a secret? How many people would
00:10:25.040 have to be in on this? And the larger and more diffuse or more complex the claim is or the theory
00:10:31.360 is, the better the chances are that it's bullshit. So that sort of conspiracy framework, I think, 0.98
00:10:37.800 is really critical when you're engaging with the claims that are often made by these groups that
00:10:43.360 we're going to get into today. Except with MLK.
00:10:48.820 say more. Should we derail ourselves completely? Paywall. Next time on Diabolical Live.
00:10:56.520 So basically, like, you have social media, this machine that is literally programmed to foment
00:11:01.820 in-groove belief reinforcement. And during the pandemic lockdowns, bots and trolls widely
00:11:08.160 exaggerated the reach and size of both the community who opposed lockdowns and those who
00:11:14.140 were in support of like what were originally very fringe anti-vax beliefs. And so they coalesce
00:11:22.140 and build and spread on social media. You get this outsized sense of how many people actually
00:11:28.240 believe this, how big this in-group is because of the bots and trolls. And then they float up
00:11:34.620 into the major news networks and get adopted, legitimized, discussed, and like integrated into
00:11:40.320 the standard web of beliefs. So this is a quote from a guy named Christopher Wiley,
00:11:46.620 who was a whistleblower at Cambridge Analytica, who like released documents while he was working
00:11:52.040 there. And this is him speaking about Fox News. The network was conditioning people's sense of
00:11:57.580 identity into something that could be weaponized. Fox fuels anger with its hyperbolic narratives
00:12:03.280 because anger disrupts the ability to seek, rationalize, and weigh information. Wow. With
00:12:08.360 their guard down, Fox's audience is then told they are part of a group of, quote, ordinary
00:12:13.660 Americans. This identity is hammering home over and over, which is why there are so many references
00:12:20.100 to, quote, us and direct chatting to the audience by the moderators. The audience is reminded that
00:12:26.120 if you are really, quote, an ordinary American, this is how you, i.e. we, think. Oh my god,
00:12:33.460 this is so Tucker Carlson. This primes people for identity-motivated reasoning, which is a
00:12:38.220 bias that essentially makes people accept or reject information based on how well it serves
00:12:42.840 to build or threaten group identity rather than on the merits of the content. Wow, that is
00:12:48.200 chilling. It's fucking chilling. 0.99
00:12:53.220 Oh, we're going to get into a lot of fucking chilling information today. 0.99
00:12:57.960 I literally have a line, wow, this is fucking chilling, like three pages from now, 0.93
00:13:02.220 about a completely different quote. So what's being described here, this is a very human 0.87
00:13:06.520 tendency. It just so happens that it's a human tendency that is being very well weaponized by
00:13:11.700 platforms like Fox. And nobody is immune to this, really. But you and I have talked about this
00:13:17.160 before, and I think it probably will deserve its own episode. Since 2013, the World Economic Forum
00:13:23.320 has been placing the global threat of massive digital misinformation at the core of other
00:13:30.620 technological and geopolitical risks. It is up there with global terrorism, cyber attacks,
00:13:36.920 the failure of global governance. All of these things are ranked up there with digital
00:13:41.140 misinformation. So these two researchers, Weinberg and Dawson, they basically studied
00:13:45.980 these narrative networks and the trigger words on a channel like Fox. And they found that much
00:13:53.100 of the narrative relies on betrayal by two key groups. That's like the underpinning idea
00:14:00.380 that kind of holds up a lot of these narratives that you see on these types of platforms.
00:14:05.260 The first is betrayal by government, and the second is betrayal by elites. So these two ideas,
00:14:12.180 betrayal by government, betrayal by elites, they are associated with certain words and concepts
00:14:17.160 and visuals. So for talking about the government side, you might hear things about the immigrant
00:14:22.580 threat, words like wall, words like illegals, Sharia law. You might hear about forgotten majority, so you'll see visuals of
00:14:30.380 coal miners, or they'll talk about poor white people, or there'll be terms like welfare queen
00:14:35.600 or reverse racism. This is also the white nationalism wing of the ideology. So alt-right,
00:14:43.620 proud boys, stories about Confederate monuments, all meant to kind of trigger that like the
00:14:47.620 government has betrayed white people. Then you have the terms and concepts associated with
00:14:52.960 betrayal by the elites. This is where a lot of the COVID and like wellness stuff comes in. So
00:14:58.620 COVID conspiracy, a.k.a. China flu, Bill Gates, Plandemic, New World Order. You have fake news,
00:15:06.740 liberal media, witch hunt, Mueller report, deep state. My throat is tightening.
00:15:12.160 Anti-establishment. This one, it just said, it says images, rednecks, white trash, and then just 1.00
00:15:19.140 Hillary Clinton. And then finally, you have wellness, which nests under betrayal by elites. 1.00
00:15:26.640 You'll hear phrases like big pharma, drugging kids, anti-vaxxers, the phrase conspiracy of silence, which I had never really heard, but it speaks to this idea of an unspoken consensus that cannot be questioned, which is how they view these ideas about vaccination or modern medicine being kind of like a global elite plot to hurt people or hurt kids.
00:15:49.720 So that's how the wellness wing kind of locks into the rest of this puzzle and the role that it plays. I think today we have to start with the predecessors to the Maha Mamas, because I think it explains how we got here. This is the group that I'd consider the proto-Maha Mamas. They're a group called Moms for Liberty. Now, are you familiar with the Moms for Liberty? You actually just returned from a pilgrimage to their homeland.
00:16:14.920 I did. Florida did not bar me from entering this year, but we will see next year. I am painfully familiar with Moms for Liberty.
00:16:24.500 Oh, tell me more. 1.00
00:16:26.220 When I was working at Katie Couric Media, I had to write a few articles about them, and I was just humbled by their stupidity all the way through. 0.77
00:16:34.380 so i would start i i was covering them while they were trying to do this like comprehensive book ban 0.62
00:16:41.240 of some of the mildest fiction you've ever heard of in your life and so i had to cover their little
00:16:47.280 town hall meetings and it was a bummer to be a part of personally oh good well we're gonna watch
00:16:51.760 the recruitment video today so the moms for liberty were like a parents rights group that
00:16:58.060 spawned from this widespread perception, or well, as we've covered, it wasn't as widespread as they
00:17:04.360 probably thought it was, of COVID mismanagement in 2021. And it seemed to me as I was reading about
00:17:12.500 them that they were really galvanized by this perfect storm of factors. So for one thing,
00:17:18.900 the pandemic really was hard on parents. Children being out of school for a long time,
00:17:23.860 while work either continues as though everything is normal
00:17:27.980 if you're an essential worker
00:17:29.400 or shifts to work from home if you're an office worker
00:17:32.160 was like really impossible.
00:17:34.380 That was a really hard predicament. 0.99
00:17:36.120 We saw women's workplace participation 0.73
00:17:38.240 drop to something like 30-year lows during this time. 1.00
00:17:42.100 So you have a legitimately untenable
00:17:44.880 prolonged situation for parents
00:17:46.940 and you have a very polarized political environment
00:17:50.260 playing out on these platforms that we just discussed
00:17:52.600 in which, like, the woke panic is reaching fever pitch.
00:17:55.660 And so what happened in 2021 is this new group,
00:17:58.580 Moms for Liberty, became a sort of magnet for young women.
00:18:03.080 So I'm going to have you read from this piece in Mother Jones.
00:18:07.640 They began to organize friends and neighbors
00:18:10.180 who were also outraged by COVID policies
00:18:12.640 and by what they were witnessing
00:18:14.200 in their children's school Zoom sessions.
00:18:16.680 Many were astonished to find that,
00:18:18.720 instead of being simply taught reading, writing, and arithmetic,
00:18:21.620 Their kids were being fed lessons on highly divisive topics of questionable academic benefit, the two founders wrote in a November 2021 Washington Post op-ed.
00:18:32.120 We started with just two chapters here in Florida in our communities, Deskovich said in a June 2021 YouTube video. 1.00
00:18:39.900 The real power of Moms for Liberty happens in your own backyard, adds Justice. 1.00
00:18:44.700 The fact that one of their last names is Justice is just fucking chef's kiss. 1.00
00:18:48.180 Okay. What the founders don't mention is the big assist they've gotten from powerful conservative organizers, starting with a third and much less visible founder of the group, Bridget Ziegler, a member of the Sarasota County School Board, whose husband, Christian Ziegler, is the vice chairman of Florida's Republican Party. 0.98
00:19:06.660 Of course, of course. Quote, I have been trying for a dozen years to get 20- and 30-year-old females involved with the Republican Party, and it was a heavy lift to get that demographic, he told the Washington Post in 2021. But now Moms for Liberty has done it for me. Wow, saying the quiet part out loud. Perfect. Okay, this is perfect.
00:19:26.020 Yeah. Now we're going to watch the recruiting video, which is a genuinely remarkable historical text. This is just for fun, because we deserve to have a little bit of fun.
00:19:35.620 Hi, my name is Carrie.
00:19:37.280 I am an elementary school teacher, and I decided to become involved in Moms for Liberty.
00:19:43.180 It is an important time for us to be an advocate for truth and a warrior for liberty.
00:19:48.820 I'm affiliated with Moms for Liberty because I agree completely with the mission statement,
00:19:53.860 and I don't think there's anything more important than making sure our children get a good education.
00:19:57.760 Last October 2020, our daughter, who's in sixth grade, brought home a Scholastic Junior article on how America is systemically racist.
00:20:07.140 And when we heard about Moms for Liberty, that gave a great vehicle to voice these concerns from the group in the community.
00:20:14.180 Oh my God. 0.60
00:20:14.980 Usually doesn't have their voices heard.
00:20:16.820 Throughout this last past year and with the mask mandate, it's caused medical problems for my son.
00:20:22.440 He is losing all his hair, his eyelashes, and his eyebrows.
00:20:26.420 I took him to every doctor under the sun to rule out all kinds of medical,
00:20:31.220 anything that I could google and find that would cause this. And it all boils
00:20:34.460 down to stress. I've reached out to my school board numerous times and they
00:20:39.500 don't care. They don't care about children that don't fit their mold. So
00:20:44.220 that's why I got involved with Moms for Liberty. Everyone feels overwhelmed with
00:20:48.380 what's going on in our country these days. It's too big, it's too much. As moms
00:20:52.520 we know the most effective way to have an impact on the future of our country 1.00
00:20:56.400 is to start at home, it's to start with education, it's to start local. We
00:21:00.580 launched Moms for Liberty because we saw parents that didn't have a voice in the 1.00
00:21:04.580 education system. We started with just two chapters here in Florida in our
00:21:08.460 communities and within a matter of five months we've grown to over 30 chapters
00:21:12.840 in 18 states, 15,000 members, and we have hundreds of chapter applications waiting
00:21:17.820 to be processed. The real power of Moms for Liberty happens in your own
00:21:21.720 backyard. It's about empowering parents, women and men, mothers and fathers, to be the watchdogs 0.99
00:21:27.740 of their district, to re-engage in their children's education, to meet during our chapter meetings
00:21:32.720 across this country. All right, that's enough. Okay, I have so much to say. I have so much to
00:21:36.840 say. Okay, number one, did I hear someone say that this was a group that was historically not
00:21:42.720 listened to? Are you telling me that white moms? Yeah, I mean, white women. Famously ignored.
00:21:48.600 Um, number two, I just have to note that one of the founders has just a rocking sideswipe bang situation circa 2003.
00:21:55.960 Number three, I just want to note that I think that our Diabolical Lies subscriber count is about to surpass the number of members of Moms for Liberty. 1.00
00:22:04.380 So, go fuck yourselves. 1.00
00:22:07.180 Your days are numbered. 1.00
00:22:09.540 I noticed that in the video, she says, like, oh, you know, we had 30 chapters in five months.
00:22:15.600 Now there are hundreds of chapters.
00:22:18.600 which is wild. A big piece of the Moms for Liberty platform is that public schools in Florida are
00:22:28.420 covertly inculcating children with Marxist ideas, like that the workers should own the means of
00:22:35.300 production. Just kidding. Not that Marxist idea. I was just about to say. The idea that they're
00:22:41.320 worried about is that gender is a spectrum or that, quote, systemic racism exists. So this
00:22:47.680 Mother Jones journalist, she attended their conference in Florida as a paid attendee
00:22:52.360 and reported on some of the panelists, and this is what she said.
00:22:57.700 One of the goals of this curriculum, he said, was to inject messages about systemic racism
00:23:02.900 into academics. Quote, they're going to present critical race theory through ruby bridges and
00:23:08.680 statistics lessons, he said, referring to the civil rights icon of school desegregation.
00:23:14.380 The point is to turn your regular curriculum into a politics curriculum.
00:23:18.580 But the critical race theory portion of social-emotional learning wasn't his main concern.
00:23:23.280 The most diabolical, hey, part of Schwab's plan, Lindsay said, speaking in a terse staccato, was to sexualize children through lessons on gender fluidity.
00:23:33.620 Okay, I'm going to do a little terse staccato. 0.97
00:23:35.640 When you sexualize children, you destabilize them.
00:23:38.180 It is not developmentally appropriate for children to have their fundamental categories, man, woman, boy, girl, complicated.
00:23:47.220 So with social-emotional learning, they introduce this complicated topic, and then they tell them how they're supposed to feel about it.
00:23:54.240 Children become moldable entities that you can shape into whatever purpose you want, like becoming change agents and activists when they decide that the world that they see and inhabit is fundamentally unfair to them.
00:24:04.000 God forbid.
00:24:06.380 Truly, truly, God forbid.
00:24:08.040 Secondly, you get them to sever ties to their family.
00:24:10.900 Honey, it's not our fault that your children hate you. 1.00
00:24:13.600 And make your kid a little sexual weirdo. 1.00
00:24:16.180 They come home. 1.00
00:24:17.140 They talk to mom, to you.
00:24:18.420 And you're like, what?
00:24:19.520 I don't want you to talk like that.
00:24:21.460 And it's, mom, you don't understand me.
00:24:24.140 You don't know.
00:24:24.860 Things are different now.
00:24:25.840 Wow.
00:24:26.340 So this person was really projecting their child's estrangement with like a national concern.
00:24:35.380 I know.
00:24:36.140 I was like, oh, my God.
00:24:38.380 I'm going to hold your hand while I say this.
00:24:40.460 This is a you problem.
00:24:43.140 So you see these anxieties about a world that is evolving in ways that you don't understand.
00:24:51.100 Yeah.
00:24:51.700 And, oh, how bad it is for children if we aren't constantly reinforcing their gender.
00:24:57.860 One guy referred to public elementary schools in Sarasota as Maoist thought reform prisons.
00:25:06.140 Oh, my God. These people are such snowflakes.
00:25:09.820 We're just mixing together all the trigger words into, like, this big nonsensical soup.
00:25:15.500 But, okay.
00:25:15.840 The meltdown.
00:25:17.540 The social-emotional learning thing is funny because it came up a bunch,
00:25:20.740 and I realized that sometimes it gets conflated with ESG investing.
00:25:25.580 Oh, really?
00:25:26.360 I was like, oh, these are not the same thing.
00:25:28.740 But social-emotional learning is not a woke plot.
00:25:31.860 It was developed by a guy named Dr. James Comer at Yale School of Medicine's Child Study Center in the 1960s, and it basically was something that they found raised students' test scores, reduced disciplinary incidents, and encouraged civic engagement by, like, teaching children how to build relationships with other people.
00:25:53.660 So, I'm going to have you read another excerpt from the on-the-ground reporting where they're, like, in a session about the social-emotional learning.
00:26:02.880 Okay. But do Moms for Liberty even want to raise civically engaged citizens? 0.98
00:26:08.220 During the breakout session on social-emotional learning, the presenters seemed to rail against the virtue of altruism. 0.63
00:26:16.340 Quote, quote,
00:26:18.300 Contribute to safe, healthy, and just communities?
00:26:21.500 She asked incredulously, referring to one group's description of one of the goals of social-emotional learning.
00:26:27.620 When did that become their responsibility?
00:26:30.540 Did you guys think you were sending your kids to school to be their own best selves and learn skills and knowledge to improve their own lives?
00:26:37.680 Well, suddenly, they're responsible to co-create the school community in the local community. 0.99
00:26:44.480 Holy shit. 1.00
00:26:45.320 Deadass. 1.00
00:26:46.480 Holy shit. 1.00
00:26:47.580 Wow, I can't make this up. 0.99
00:26:49.000 As the session wrapped up, 1.00
00:26:50.580 a woman sitting next to me struck up a conversation,
00:26:53.400 asking if I would mind sending her the notes I'd been taking.
00:26:56.380 She told me she could see the sense
00:26:58.220 in social-emotional learning for kids
00:27:00.140 whose families weren't teaching them good values at home,
00:27:02.820 but she saw no reason for her children
00:27:04.400 to discuss systemic racism
00:27:06.020 since her school district was 90% white.
00:27:09.200 Famously anti-racist circumstances.
00:27:11.760 Furthermore, my kids don't see color, she told me.
00:27:15.920 She had had no idea that her son's best friends at elementary school were Black
00:27:20.220 until she met them at the end of the year.
00:27:22.940 Her son had never mentioned his friend's skin color, just their names,
00:27:26.420 which weren't, quote, typical Black names, she noted.
00:27:30.000 She shook her head ruefully.
00:27:32.160 She sometimes wondered if our grandparents and great-grandparents had it all figured out.
00:27:36.700 Incredible.
00:27:37.420 Back when schools were actually segregated. 1.00
00:27:41.180 I just have to note, Ruby Bridges was, like, in her 70s right now. 0.98
00:27:45.340 Like, it's worth noting Ruby Bridges is fucking alive. 0.83
00:27:48.580 Back when school was just about learning to read, write, and do math, she had looked into the local private schools but found the same kind of curriculum there. 0.98
00:27:57.300 And she didn't want to pay $40,000 a year for her children to learn about, quote, transgender stuff. 0.57
00:28:03.700 Gazing into the future, she worried a lot about her white son's job prospects. 0.93
00:28:09.020 In this climate of diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives, who would hire them? 0.86
00:28:15.340 Oh, my God.
00:28:16.880 Pulitzer to whoever wrote this.
00:28:18.540 What incredible dramatic irony throughout that entire piece.
00:28:21.600 Dude, we will link all the Mother Jones coverage of this from this time period.
00:28:26.340 Mother Jones is lit.
00:28:27.000 It is so good.
00:28:28.120 I mean, I guess I wanted to start there because I feel like that perfectly captures this idea of,
00:28:35.320 no, there is actually hostility to the idea of interconnectedness.
00:28:39.360 The idea that your children's decisions and their relationship with other people around them might actually be part of their responsibility, and the fact that they're, like, scoffing at the idea of co-creating a healthy and safe environment, they're like, did you think your kids were being sent to school for that, really lays the foundation well for what happens next.
00:29:03.360 Next. And this is the crossover point. This is like the vector that then spreads the virus, so to speak, and how this starts to gain more mainstream appeal.
00:29:12.400 They report, quote, online wellness influencers began to visit these groups, like of mothers that were congregating online, in order to mine followers.
00:29:24.120 the covid conspiracies the anti-vax ideas that were kind of percolating and becoming standard
00:29:31.300 set of grievances for the moms for liberty and the um political coalitions they were building 0.96
00:29:37.360 with young women that is where the wellness influencers started to proliferate when you say
00:29:45.120 proliferate do you think that a lot of these wellness influencers were aware of what they
00:29:49.140 were doing? Do you think it was intentional or instinctual or somewhere in between?
00:29:54.540 I think they were probably taking advantage of the environment of distrust and the fact that
00:30:00.420 it was a bunch of, like, seemingly, quote, open-minded, awake young women.
00:30:07.320 Yeah, and if you're a wellness influencer, then you've already been radicalized yourself.
00:30:11.620 You're already in that position of skepticism and resistance and thinking that you have to
00:30:18.880 provide the information that no one else has. So I guess it's kind of just like you're not
00:30:22.740 intentionally trying to mislead people. You are just already misled yourself.
00:30:27.040 Yeah. I mean, something that came up over and over again in reporting from this time period was
00:30:31.880 the number of young women who described it as a political awakening. That like that was like
00:30:38.020 when they became political and like when they became to see conservative social ideology is
00:30:44.220 in line with their interests. The idea that there are some people who are awakened by Palestine and
00:30:50.200 some people who are just awakened by red dye number six is just really indicative. Red dye 0.94
00:30:56.200 number three, Caroline. I'm sorry. We'll get there. Number six is just fine.
00:31:02.600 So what's most notable to me, too, is their understanding of effective organizing and
00:31:08.120 messaging there was one piece that i found that was digging into these weird uh instances where
00:31:15.900 white supremacist groups were organizing with the mothers groups and one of their whatsapp chats
00:31:22.280 leaked and so it's a screenshot of the whatsapp chat that has the white supremacists and the
00:31:28.300 moms groups in it and the protest leader in la says quote we americans need to grow out of our
00:31:35.160 tendency to prioritize performative protests and flashy stunts for social media clout
00:31:40.720 and instead focus on the systems and institutions responsible for our oppression and how to best
00:31:47.660 disrupt them. Now that is chilling. Do you know what I'm realizing right now is that there has
00:31:53.140 been so much conversation this election cycle, last election cycle, the one before that, the one
00:31:58.080 before that, the one before that, about why white women can never get in line and can never 0.99
00:32:03.440 collectively work with other demographics. And I'm having this maybe very naive realization as
00:32:10.400 a white woman that it's like, oh, no, they know how to organize. White women are very good at 0.99
00:32:14.960 politically organizing. They're just never going to fucking do it for you. 1.00
00:32:19.940 So this is fairly common, where you see these talking points seem to kind of effortlessly slip 0.98
00:32:26.260 between the registers. Where I was reading that, I was like, that is so fucking leftist. 0.99
00:32:30.000 gotta get over the performative stuff and focus on systems and disrupting institutions that 0.99
00:32:35.120 oppress us i was like holy fucking shit um hell yeah brother so next we're gonna talk about laura 0.98
00:32:41.080 trump did you know that laura trump has her own fox news show now no don't they have a bigger 0.99
00:32:46.920 bench than that why are they recycling through these people my god okay we're gonna watch it
00:32:53.220 Wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Pause. Can you remind me which Neanderthal is she married to?
00:33:00.400 Eric Trump. 0.88
00:33:01.800 Currently? Or is she the first wife? 0.58
00:33:04.040 Second wife. Second wife of Eric Trump. 0.96
00:33:05.700 Okay. Sex wife. Okay. Second wife. Sex wife. 1.00
00:33:08.880 Freudian slip. Okay. 1.00
00:33:11.080 Good evening. Hope you're having a great Saturday night and welcome to My View.
00:33:15.620 I want to start tonight with a huge thank you to everyone for welcoming me and this show into your home.
00:33:22.600 and for making our first episode such a huge success.
00:33:26.760 We are so excited to keep the momentum going tonight.
00:33:30.120 In the quest to make America great again,
00:33:32.580 a broad coalition of voices is coming together
00:33:35.060 in a way we've never seen before.
00:33:37.400 And what's the goal?
00:33:38.480 It's simple.
00:33:39.460 President Trump wants to restore confidence
00:33:41.400 in our institutions and our leaders.
00:33:43.920 He wants to restore our borders and the rule of law.
00:33:46.840 He wants to make America the safest,
00:33:50.040 strongest country we've ever been.
00:33:52.460 Part of that strength will come with making America healthy again.
00:33:56.480 The Maha movement, spearheaded by his HHS secretary, RFK Jr., has grown into a passionate group of health leaders, elite athletes, and eager parents, all motivated to save America from daunting statistics.
00:34:11.340 Today, America's overall health is in grievous condition.
00:34:14.800 The United States has worse health than any other developed nation.
00:34:17.860 We can't be a strong nation unless we're first to healthy people.
00:34:23.240 I think there needs to be a focus on all of the proper basics that are needed to improve the overall health and well-being of Americans.
00:34:29.820 I have seen firsthand that the medical community is overwhelmed with some of these preventable ailments.
00:34:35.180 We've had enough. We want truth. We want transparency.
00:34:38.580 And we want to be able to educate people in a way that isn't being funded by big industry.
00:34:44.500 America's average life expectancy is currently 78.4 years old.
00:34:50.100 That's Trump's age.
00:34:50.680 That's years behind the U.K. and other nations, and still behind our own pre-pandemic levels.
00:34:56.740 We spend more money on health care than any other country, and yet our citizens have never been sicker.
00:35:03.200 The CDC says two in five U.S. adults are obese, and an estimated 129 million people in our country have at least one major chronic disease.
00:35:12.780 Things like heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and hypertension.
00:35:17.060 Clearly, we have serious ground to make up.
00:35:20.060 And yet, those on the left are more focused on fear-mongering and attacking RFK rather than working together.
00:35:26.840 Yeah, buddy.
00:35:27.560 You said yesterday that people could be killed as a result of this, of RFK Jr. being in this role.
00:35:32.500 Senator, you said, quote, millions will die, unquote, if RFK Jr. is confirmed.
00:35:39.060 Now, it's beyond clear.
00:35:40.660 Okay, first of all, I'm going to press play in a second, but the fact that they have a lower third over Chuck Schumer that says Maha Mission faces leftist critics, this man is, he's, come get your man. This man belongs to you all.
00:35:56.740 Yeah, I just like am having a really hard time right now watching all this. It's like, babe, you're so close. You guys are all so, we're so close. We're so close to getting there.
00:36:07.460 I okay I know I was like she's basically hitting all of the talking points that normally lead to
00:36:12.140 the conclusion and that's why we need universal health care but don't worry that's not where
00:36:15.880 she's going here you go to confirm Mr. Kennedy is a vote to make America sicker RFK guarantees
00:36:23.560 that all of our kids will go to school with kids that get very sick women will will die because
00:36:28.480 doctors will be confused about what their rights are when it comes to health and more importantly
00:36:33.680 our children's health at that, shouldn't we all be on the same team, fighting for the same cause?
00:36:40.420 Tonight, on my view, we'll talk to those voices who are committed to the Maha mission,
00:36:45.940 from what we eat to how we move and even how we think. It's time to take a step back and
00:36:51.980 reevaluate. With new health leaders taking the reins, we have the freedom to really examine
00:36:57.740 what we've been told. And if it means feeling better, living longer, and getting more years
00:37:02.600 with our loved ones, in my view, I think it's worth it. Let's start tonight with biohacking.
00:37:09.520 Sounds a little bit sci-fi, but there are some very real advancements being made by those willing
00:37:14.880 to push the envelope in tech, biology, and beyond. And one of the biggest names in the field is Gary
00:37:21.320 Brecka. We're a lot more sick and diseased and pathological than we really deserve to be. This
00:37:26.860 guy will change your life. Some of your favorite actors, some of the most powerful, richest people
00:37:31.040 in the world are all now doing this
00:37:33.100 with Gary for one reason and one reason
00:37:34.980 only. Because it works. Can a person
00:37:36.940 really live comfortably to like 110, 115?
00:37:39.680 120 to 140
00:37:41.100 no question. Yes. 80 is about
00:37:43.140 to be the new 40. Gary
00:37:44.940 is leading wellness experts, celebrities
00:37:46.980 and some of your favorite athletes on a
00:37:49.120 new kind of health journey. And luckily
00:37:51.200 he still had some time to
00:37:53.140 give us some advice. Alright
00:37:55.040 Gary Brega is a former insurance
00:37:57.000 salesman who now has a supplement company.
00:37:59.580 Let's just back up a second.
00:38:02.280 The fact that she's like, and that's why we have Gary on the show now,
00:38:05.660 who sells a line of vitamins out of his basement.
00:38:09.560 He calls himself a human biologist,
00:38:11.680 and he's sort of like the perfect encapsulation of the industry.
00:38:15.400 Like I said, I'll be the first to be like nodding along vigorously to be like,
00:38:19.860 yes, we should not be spending twice as much per capita
00:38:23.060 as every country getting worse outcomes.
00:38:24.800 But it is worth stating that part of the reason our life expectancy is so low is because of the guns. 0.99
00:38:31.820 Like, over half of what you can attribute that to is just all the fucking murder machines that are lying around this country. 0.99
00:38:40.700 But anyway. 0.99
00:38:41.960 Put that aside.
00:38:43.080 Setting that aside.
00:38:44.120 All politicians for the last 50 years.
00:38:46.680 Setting the guns aside.
00:38:49.700 Setting the guns aside.
00:38:52.640 Okay, well, that's what we always do. 0.97
00:38:54.360 go on but you kind of get the sense like the entire first two minutes of that she literally
00:38:59.280 could have been leading up to a conclusion of this is why we united health care shouldn't exist 0.98
00:39:04.660 but instead it's like and so here is this like fucking con man whose brand is called ultimate 0.97
00:39:12.200 human and immediately i read ultimate human like what does that remind me of oh yeah uber mensch 0.98
00:39:18.620 that, like, German term for overman or superman. I'm like, guys, the subtext is so fucking loud. 0.95
00:39:25.220 I just have to say really quickly, too, watching Laura Trump made me feel like I was dying. She 0.98
00:39:32.220 has, like, as much riz as the fucking shriveled up avocado that I just threw in the trash before. 1.00
00:39:38.320 Yeah, as Daniel fucking Neilman. 0.98
00:39:40.520 So one video that we're going to keep returning to throughout this episode was actually, like,
00:39:45.040 sampled in that newscast it's a panel hosted by our dear friends at the free press so caro can
00:39:52.220 you please read the title to me so we can just get a sense for the framing of the conversation
00:39:59.820 okay inside the maha revolution with callie means vani harry and jillian michaels oh jillian
00:40:08.720 michaels okay great love her okay we're inside the revolution this is how barry sets us up from
00:40:18.060 the free press this is honestly live in dc and i'm barry weiss at the risk of totally grossing out
00:40:24.480 all three of you and everyone in this room i have a few confessions to make i have a plastic cutting
00:40:30.140 board in my kitchen which my wife regards as like the devil's work i have had my forehead injected
00:40:36.340 with chemicals to make me look younger. I drink pasteurized milk. I do drink Diet Coke, which my
00:40:42.180 producer calls cancer water. And I could go on, but I do not want to lose my audience. Now, all of
00:40:47.620 those things until very recently seemed perfectly normal in American life. Now they seem not just
00:40:54.580 low status and not just outdated, but perhaps clinically insane. And that is because of the
00:41:01.000 cultural sea change that we have seen over the last few years, and especially, of course,
00:41:06.160 over the last few months. And we've seen this because this very unexpected coalition of
00:41:11.860 nutritionists, longevity experts, wellness influencers, holistic and functional medicine
00:41:17.700 doctors, moms wearing babies and no deodorant, mushroom shamans, and yes, some vaccine skeptics,
00:41:24.100 and we'll get to them, who have all gathered together under the banner of Maha. Now, a decade
00:41:29.040 ago, if I listed off that group of personas to you, you would think 100% they are liberal. They
00:41:36.280 are progressive. Maybe they're off the political map on the left. But here we are in 2025. And not
00:41:43.840 only has this group helped usher in Donald Trump to power, I think you can make an argument that
00:41:48.680 the Maha movement is perhaps the most powerful political force in American life. So what does
00:41:55.040 that movement stand for? What does it look like when it actually marries itself to power as the
00:42:00.840 47th president becomes the 47th president? And what will Maha actually be able to accomplish
00:42:06.620 over these next four years? Okay, thoughts? I like how they just were like, yeah,
00:42:11.460 the vaccine skeptics, we'll get to that. Just like tuck that under the rug.
00:42:17.940 That was like the last thing she said. You know, some poor intern had to be like, 1.00
00:42:21.300 uh, Ms. Weiss, we should probably acknowledge the fact that. Okay, a few things that jumped out to
00:42:27.680 me that I want to call out. The first is the fact that we're using words like revolution
00:42:33.000 and movement. Okay, that feels substantive. We're going to come back to that. Another thing that I
00:42:41.080 noticed here and in a lot of what I had read and watched over the last couple weeks is something
00:42:46.820 you will almost always hear in this dialogue is that, well, this stuff used to be the trappings
00:42:52.260 of the left. This was like the crunchy liberal thing. And now these people are right wing Maha
00:42:58.280 fanatics. The right has really taken charge of this natural healthy living thing that actually
00:43:03.520 started with the crunchy hippies in the 1960s. There is, for whatever reason, a really big
00:43:09.180 emphasis often placed on like the idea that this used to be a leftist thing and now it's a right
00:43:14.800 wing thing, but I was surprised to learn that actually this stuff goes back a lot further than
00:43:21.340 that. So I decided to reread a couple of chapters in Naomi Klein's Doppelganger because I remembered
00:43:27.380 that she sketched out some of these connections a little more directly. So in Doppelganger,
00:43:34.380 Klein has a section that is called the Who's Who of Woo because I think she noticed at the time,
00:43:41.380 the time being like early 2020, that there were two primary groups who were ignoring the lockdown
00:43:47.340 warnings. The first was those associated with churches, and the second were those associated
00:43:53.060 with gyms. So the idea that the body was a temple that could be protected from this nefarious, 0.59
00:44:02.020 unknown virus via detox, being buff, having like a mental barrier. Basically, if you are physically
00:44:08.980 and mentally strong enough, you can prevent yourself from falling ill. You can become
00:44:14.120 one of the superior people. We think about the gym rat persona as a very secular thing,
00:44:21.600 but at its extremes, I think it really inspires the faith and the adherence and almost the
00:44:28.720 supernatural elements of religion. And she writes, quote, this was a poisonous compound
00:44:34.800 enmeshed with powerful notions of natural living, bodily strength, fitness, purity, and divinity
00:44:42.240 alongside their opposites, unnaturalness, bodily weakness, slothfulness, contamination,
00:44:50.560 and damnation. So she writes about the fact that this new agey spiritual element of the gym rat
00:44:58.620 community actually originated with fascists in the early 20th century. And then it was like
00:45:06.340 snuffed out after World War II and re-emerged in the 1960s, which is when it became associated with
00:45:12.720 the left. And what was even more distressing is that I learned that the Nazis got the idea from
00:45:19.640 us. Like Americans exported this shit from America to Germany. Because back then, health and purity 1.00
00:45:27.700 and these ideas about naturalness,
00:45:30.300 they were even more explicitly associated with race.
00:45:35.280 So in 1907, Indiana was the first state
00:45:38.920 to introduce compulsory sterilization.
00:45:41.660 It was struck down by 1921,
00:45:43.860 but like it was supported kind of by everybody
00:45:46.660 across the political spectrum.
00:45:48.500 This excerpt is from a paper
00:45:49.980 about an early American eugenics film
00:45:52.400 called The Black Stork,
00:45:54.140 which was later renamed Are You Fit to Marry?
00:45:57.060 This was a movie that came out in 1917 to warn against the dangers of sexual promiscuity and, quote, race mixing.
00:46:06.220 So this is a paper that kind of, like, breaks down that movie.
00:46:10.020 This honestly sounds like something that could be described in the free press six months from now.
00:46:14.400 Since American eugenics was supported by known racists and would later be directly cited by the Nazis as inspiration for their, quote, racial science, it's uncomfortable to look deeper into it and realize how much turf it shares with progressivists' real concern for the treatment of the poor and of mothers, some of whom would have been forced to raise severely disabled children.
00:46:35.400 Some Americans thought that the best way to eradicate poverty and disease was to eradicate the poor themselves by restricting their right to pass on the human, quote, germplasm to the next generation.
00:46:47.940 Eugenics and even euthanasia became, for some, a way to avoid social reforms.
00:46:53.260 Nurture vs. Nature lost out to inescapable hereditary destiny.
00:46:58.880 Jesus Christ.
00:47:00.680 This was the poster.
00:47:03.340 Whoa.
00:47:03.780 So, it says in the upper corner, like a women-only showing today, the most daring exposure ever attempted, are you fit to marry? Plain facts laid bare, it's the truth, the terrible results of unclean living. Mothers, bring your daughters.
00:47:24.060 Just a fun little outing, a little matinee. 1.00
00:47:26.280 I'm imagining it like the free press article that's like the black stork was robbed at the 1.00
00:47:33.500 Oscars by an aura so yeah obviously unclean living here is in reference to white women 0.99
00:47:40.160 having sex with non-white men that's what that means but you can kind of get the impression of 0.90
00:47:44.100 there's a lot of conflation happening here of like cleanliness purity how you should be raising a 0.97
00:47:50.840 family I got the impression from looking at other advertisements from this time period that 0.80
00:47:55.680 unclean living functioned like a dog whistle for race mixing, but also literal illness. 0.73
00:48:01.600 The ideas kind of started to merge. So here is a soap ad from the 1920s, 0.69
00:48:10.020 if you can just kind of describe what you're looking at.
00:48:13.060 I would love for someone who understands this time period more than I do to explain, like,
00:48:17.640 the significance of this happening during the Roaring Twenties. That's kind of interesting to
00:48:22.080 me yeah okay this ad says it's a headline that says the finest thing in the world a happy healthy
00:48:27.800 family and there's like this little portrait of just the happiest trad wife you've ever seen
00:48:34.200 with her kind of hitler looking husband holding a baby 0.90
00:48:37.940 hella fewer vibes and then we have two kids at the table we got a cherubic looking baby 0.85
00:48:47.980 held by mom, and it's an ad for soap. Yeah, so four children total. It's a soap ad. They're
00:48:53.860 standing around a kitchen table, and then this is what the ad says. I simply cannot find the words
00:48:59.920 to express the emotions aroused by this lovely picture. The original painting is before me as I
00:49:06.000 write. I wish I could hang it in every American home. I'm trying to do like a transatlantic accent,
00:49:11.040 but I don't think I'm succeeding. So I'm going to be intensely practical instead. It was meant
00:49:15.920 that everyone should be well. Sickness is unnatural and to a large degree preventable.
00:49:21.220 Wow. I think all the great doctors and health commissioners would approve the following statement.
00:49:25.540 There would be little sickness in a perfectly clean world. Only healthy skin is beautiful.
00:49:31.540 Jesus. And more than that, our skins have been softer and finer textured. The little ones have
00:49:37.580 not developed ugly rashes or pimples. And our own mirrors reveal that lovely underglow, which is the
00:49:43.800 secret of a radiant complexion i know life buoy to be as fine and pure as any soap sold at any
00:49:50.760 price i firmly believe that it is the surest everyday protection that any family can have
00:49:55.760 against the danger in dirt it agrees with your skin signed the health doctor who was assuredly
00:50:03.380 not a woman for the record gary brecca who also sold supplements out of her basement um yeah so
00:50:12.320 again echoes of this relationship between like clean living what's natural and these like white
00:50:17.460 nationalist ideas from a hundred years ago so there is an amazing piece from the baffler on
00:50:24.580 ballerina farm from a couple of years ago that i actually had not read until i was getting ready
00:50:30.700 for this episode but it left a different taste in my mouth after like looking back at the type
00:50:36.800 of language that was being used in those types of ads.
00:50:42.140 So I'm going to share it with you if you can read it for us.
00:50:45.460 Oh, this is interesting.
00:50:47.820 Nealman not only takes care of the children, but protects them from anything that could
00:50:51.580 corrupt their bodies, minds, and souls.
00:50:54.620 Their meals are cooked from scratch with farm-fresh ingredients.
00:50:58.040 Their schooling is conducted on the ranch.
00:51:00.440 The words Hannah uses to describe her lifestyle are a clarion call to those who know what
00:51:05.220 to listen for.
00:51:06.680 Living off the land is natural.
00:51:09.000 Sourdough bread is a God-given marvel.
00:51:11.460 And the hogs they raise are real heritage pork, the way great-grandma remembers it.
00:51:17.080 There are a number of women online who have been inspired by Ballerina Farm.
00:51:20.340 Take Gwen the Milkmaid, a Canadian ASM artist and wellness influencer turned trad poster.
00:51:27.320 POV, you used to be a pro-abortion, anti-marriage, lesbian feminist, 0.96
00:51:31.900 reads the caption on a TikTok post of her rehydrating sourdough starter, 1.00
00:51:36.760 but now you're getting married to your fave man on earth, love serving him, and can't wait to make
00:51:41.540 babies. Like Hannah, Gwen is blonde, posts videos of herself cooking and frolicking in prairie
00:51:47.440 dresses, and emphasizes the difference between her old life and the new one she has built for
00:51:51.900 herself. Or rather, the life she hopes to have built, someday. In one video, Gwen asks God,
00:51:58.480 why I don't have a 50-acre farm, seven children, 40 chickens, and five Jersey cows yet.
00:52:04.540 Lacking a multi-millionaire father-in-law or a dairy cow of her own, 1.00
00:52:08.480 she's forced to churn store-bought cream into homemade butter. Tsk, tsk, Gwen.
00:52:13.780 Gwen's videos turn the subtext of Valerina Farms' videos into text, as if to compensate for the 0.65
00:52:19.100 ranch she lacks. Gwen is proudly anti-government, anti-vaccine, and anti-birth control. 0.96
00:52:25.460 Beyond her flowing linens and huddle of toe-headed children, a trad wife is also passionate about 1.00
00:52:31.180 nutrition, a fierce guardian of her family's physical health. This is especially important 0.97
00:52:36.940 to those on the right who see what they eat as a reflection of their values and believe that the
00:52:41.640 powers that be would rather see them incapacitated by their diets. Like mainstream women's magazines, 0.99
00:52:48.240 Evie magazine regularly publishes articles on cooking and nutrition. But unlike anything
00:52:53.860 printed and women's health are vogue. These articles often veer into conspiracy theories 0.99
00:52:58.380 about a consortium of nameless elites plotting to slowly poison us through the food supply.
00:53:03.120 An article titled, The Real Reason Raw Milk Is Banned, ends by speculating, oh here we go,
00:53:09.220 that quote, they want us to be sick so they can sell us patented cures made in a lab rather than
00:53:14.740 supporting health by eating well and having an active lifestyle. A subsequent article touting
00:53:20.080 the health benefits of unpasteurized milk credits ballerina farm for putting a quote whole new sexy
00:53:24.900 spin on dairy and declares that we've quote been made to believe that raw milk is dangerous to
00:53:29.820 society thoughts the thing that i've been thinking about as you've been talking about all this is
00:53:34.980 this to me is so clearly not a failure of the right or the left but these are chickens coming
00:53:41.100 home to roost of neoliberalism everyone is so individualist this is like the most individualist 0.65
00:53:46.460 idea that you can possibly have because the neilman's children will probably be fine they do
00:53:52.300 have access to the finest food they do have access to being outdoors they aren't going to get sick by 0.99
00:53:57.360 seeing other kids all of those things are true and when they need a doctor they'll go fucking
00:54:01.320 see one and you won't see it on instagram but this whole idea it's just so interesting to me 0.74
00:54:06.400 because i think obviously this is all about the right but whenever we get into this i'm just like
00:54:10.860 yeah i mean this is neoliberalism everyone's out for themselves and it doesn't fucking matter if 0.99
00:54:15.220 Hannah Nealman's kid is going to give some other kid in Ireland measles who gives a shit because they're going to be fine. 0.99
00:54:20.740 Exactly. It's an emphasis on personal health instead of public health. 1.00
00:54:28.160 Right.
00:54:28.440 Which kids are meant to benefit from this? Whose kids have the largest problem in their life be like whether their milk is pasteurized or not? Which kids are we really talking about here?
00:54:39.000 I just want to add something, too. The other thing I was thinking about is there's such a don't tread on me vibe, but it's like no one is actually treading on you. The Nealmans have—their kids aren't vaccinated. They don't go to school. They're homeschooled.
00:54:53.820 They're not vaccinated? 1.00
00:54:55.320 I'll say allegedly, but she has numerous family members who tout anti-vax shit. I would stake my life on the assertion, the hypothesis, whatever I have to say to not get sued, that those children are not vaccinated, at least— 0.98
00:55:08.060 Allegedly.
00:55:09.000 allegedly. Maybe they, I don't, we'll have to look into what vaccines you need to enter Ireland.
00:55:13.940 But that's the thing that's frustrating is, okay, you don't want to go to public school.
00:55:18.660 You don't want to vaccinate your kids. You don't want them to eat like to the, all these health
00:55:21.900 mamas, then go homeschool your kids. There is a certain thing of like, yeah, you won't be able
00:55:26.780 to partake in certain things that require community engagement. But if you give so little
00:55:33.080 of a fuck about community engagement, then surely you won't be upset about not going to college or 0.99
00:55:39.220 going to fucking Six Flags or going to Disney World. You know what I mean? Then go do all that 1.00
00:55:43.320 shit on your own if you don't want to be in a community. Go. Just go. So one of the books that 1.00
00:55:48.840 I read for this episode was called The Wellness Trap by Christy Harrison. And something that she
00:55:55.040 talks about is that the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has a social determinants of
00:56:01.500 health framework. I should probably archive that page because RFK is probably going to take it
00:56:06.040 down. It basically breaks down which elements of someone's life have the largest impact on their
00:56:13.380 health outcomes. And it breaks it down into five categories. The first is economic stability. So
00:56:19.340 income. The second is education, access, and quality. That is broadly tied to like job
00:56:26.100 opportunity. The third is healthcare access and quality of the healthcare that you have access to.
00:56:32.340 The fourth is neighborhood and built environment. So do you have safe housing? Do you have reliable
00:56:39.280 transportation? Do you live in a safe neighborhood? What type of air pollution are you exposed to on
00:56:44.400 a daily basis? And yes, do you have access to nutritious foods and opportunities for physical
00:56:50.220 movement? And then the fifth is social and community context, which basically boils down to
00:56:55.980 Do you regularly face racism, discrimination, violence, hostility?
00:57:02.360 And do you have family and social support or not?
00:57:05.920 Now, the county health rankings and roadmaps model of health says that when you look at those five things,
00:57:13.180 about 70% of your health outcomes are determinable by the economic, educational, healthcare access, neighborhood context, social factors.
00:57:21.840 Like, the stuff that's basically not food or diet-related.
00:57:26.520 And the remaining 30% are attributable to tobacco use, diet and exercise, alcohol and drug use, and exposure to sexually transmitted diseases.
00:57:36.820 So, in other words, like, what you could reasonably classify as someone's behavior or, like, choices, personal—things that are within your, like, personal control.
00:57:44.520 With your diet being just one factor out of the four in that 30%.
00:57:50.060 it sort of renders an obsession with food quality at the margins as like missing the forest for the
00:57:58.820 trees. Something that I'm also thinking about is I've talked about this before in this podcast.
00:58:02.940 The food deserts in this country are insane. I have driven through towns where there is no
00:58:10.560 grocery store and just a subway and a McDonald's. So it's like the idea that there are women whose 0.98
00:58:15.280 entire crusade is over like a seed oil and not about getting a grocery store in every per capita 0.81
00:58:23.220 population. That does not exist right now. Yeah. Broadly, the emphasis is on this very like
00:58:29.640 individual choice paradigm of liberalism. You should be able to make an individual choice to
00:58:35.120 vaccinate or not vaccinate. And then that's positioned as being like somehow separate and
00:58:39.200 siloed from anyone else's individual choice. Obviously, that's not how public health works,
00:58:44.420 but this is what Naomi Klein says. 0.96
00:58:47.140 Klein writes,
00:58:48.240 What unites the far right and the far out
00:58:50.480 is the hustle on the one hand
00:58:52.040 and a faith in hyper-individualism on the other.
00:58:55.360 In the alternative health world,
00:58:57.320 everyone is selling something.
00:58:59.340 Classes, retreats, sound baths, essential oils,
00:59:02.660 anti-metal toxin sprays,
00:59:04.220 Himalayan salt rock lamps, coffee enemas.
00:59:07.280 Supplements alone were worth an estimated
00:59:09.200 $155 billion worldwide in 2022.
00:59:12.380 It's much the same on Bannon's War Room or Alex Jones's InfoWars, with their many supplements, survivalist supplies, freedom fests, precious metal offers, colloidal silver toothpaste, and weapons training.
00:59:25.620 And let us not forget Tucker Carlson's 2022 documentary in which he recommended that men regularly tan their testicles with a special infrared light in order to increase testosterone levels in preparation for the, quote, hard times ahead.
00:59:42.380 Serious journalism.
00:59:45.580 You basically see this language of, quote-unquote, health freedom used a lot.
00:59:51.440 That was a phrase that kept coming up.
00:59:52.980 And I think it really, it helped this ideology gain more widespread appeal.
00:59:57.920 When they weren't really seeing a lot of uptake with autism conspiracy theories,
01:00:02.160 it was like, oh, how can we tweak this and make it about something bigger?
01:00:05.880 So we're going to jump back to the free press panel really quickly,
01:00:08.300 so you can catch a vibe here of how we're positioning this.
01:00:11.100 This is a Cali means.
01:00:14.280 Fixing the free market, correcting corruption, addressing corruption is not an attack on the free market.
01:00:20.520 It is an imperative for the free market.
01:00:22.900 When I was a lobbyist 15 years ago, we used to go and pay conservative think tanks to say that it was nanny state to take soda off of food stamps.
01:00:31.640 But the soda companies are lobbying tens of millions of dollars to get the soda on food stamps.
01:00:35.120 So actually saying, should the government be funding diabetes water to addict kids to and then give them diabetes to where Medicaid right now for lower income kids is more expensive than the entire defense intelligence budget and growing two times faster?
01:00:47.800 Is that saying conservative policy? No, it's not.
01:00:50.640 Actually, it's an imperative for the free market to say we're not going to poison our children with supplemental nutrition programs.
01:00:56.880 So that's the framework.
01:00:58.420 When we talk about the biggest elephant in the room, which is our $4.5 trillion healthcare budget, that is dictated by the American Medical Association, which is by definition a pharmaceutical lobbying group that has the judgment to have no age limit right now for gender transition surgery.
01:01:13.580 That is the group that we have outsourced 20% of the U.S. economy to.
01:01:19.020 Whenever anyone in this room goes to a doctor, they are subject to the American Medical Association algorithms, which underpin Medicare and Medicaid through totally administratively decision, like we've just thrown it off to them, and then all private insurance.
01:01:31.120 So what Bobby and Trump are saying is it's actually imperative.
01:01:34.800 It's imperative for a free market.
01:01:36.260 It's imperative for our human capital that we take our medical logic away from this top-down system.
01:01:41.540 It's a top-down system.
01:01:42.920 and give people choice. I mean, this idea of medical freedom and this idea of patients
01:01:47.140 working with their doctors on their complex interpersonal issue and then working with that
01:01:52.680 doctor to figure out a solution for them, that's not going to be ozempic for every six-year-old.
01:01:57.500 That should be using the medical dollars for what Chris Palmer talks about of food or
01:02:02.600 supplementation or incentivizing exercise. You know, in Europe, in Denmark, if you're obese,
01:02:08.500 okay you do not get ozempic they're making 90 percent of their profits their biggest company
01:02:12.760 from the united states you get an insurance subsidized keto diet you get insurance subsidized
01:02:17.820 exercise maybe ozempic if you're old and morbidly obese and diabetic maybe but like that's not the
01:02:23.700 first line defense it's more flexible okay okay first of all i just noticed on the sidebar
01:02:28.300 did you see this i did i've i always study your sidebars whenever you share youtube with me 1.00
01:02:34.400 Dude, well, I fucked my algorithm now because I just watched these stupid fucking clips. 0.99
01:02:39.760 The next video says how Riley Gaines inspired Jillian Michaels to, quote, reject absurdity. 1.00
01:02:45.380 Thanks, Riley.
01:02:46.260 Oh, my God.
01:02:46.960 I have not taken it edible. 0.98
01:02:48.320 And yet, I just had to work so hard to understand what the fuck his point was. 0.83
01:02:54.580 Second of all, for them to invoke Scandinavian countries and their takeaway. 1.00
01:03:02.200 Keep my name out of your fucking mouth. 1.00
01:03:07.900 If you're not going to talk about the social safety net, then keep that shit pure, to use their term. 1.00
01:03:17.540 Like, get the fuck out. 0.99
01:03:20.540 Do you think Denmark got to where it is with the Atkins diet? 0.99
01:03:24.160 Keto. Keto, Caroline.
01:03:25.880 Oh, I'm so sorry.
01:03:26.340 Government subsidized keto diet.
01:03:29.040 Yeah, I'm sure.
01:03:30.360 I'm sure.
01:03:31.880 Okay, a couple things there.
01:03:33.360 That was just like two minutes of he went all over the place.
01:03:36.700 But the things that he was saying about,
01:03:39.460 let's just like try to boil down his solution here.
01:03:41.940 The solution to Americans' health problems
01:03:46.900 and the fact that they do not get an adequate amount of time
01:03:49.820 with their medical professionals
01:03:51.500 and adequately individualized health solutions
01:03:54.700 is to make it so that poor people can't have soda.
01:04:02.180 That's the argument. 0.97
01:04:03.480 There's also no fucking way that Donald Trump is going to ban soda. 0.97
01:04:07.620 No, no, not going to ban it. 0.96
01:04:09.420 Going to take it off so that you cannot use SNAP benefits to buy it.
01:04:13.840 Right.
01:04:14.820 We're going to punish them. 0.98
01:04:16.360 Right. 0.88
01:04:16.720 We're going to come back to that.
01:04:17.760 Right.
01:04:18.040 But like, the crazy thing is that a big reason why Americans do not get more than like 15 minutes with a doctor is because of private health insurance.
01:04:28.960 That's the legitimate explanation for what he is describing there.
01:04:33.240 No, no interest in addressing that at all.
01:04:36.240 If we're talking about these bigger factors of public health, okay, you know what else
01:04:41.320 they have in Denmark?
01:04:42.220 They have paid sick leave.
01:04:43.960 They have months of paid vacation.
01:04:46.820 But we're not interested in touching any of that, right?
01:04:49.080 That's not what this is about.
01:04:50.540 This is about checks, notes, making it so poor people can't buy Coca-Cola anymore.
01:04:57.080 It also just feels very gross of him with that six-year-old Ozempic comment.
01:05:02.500 I'm sure there are children who are potentially on Ozempic, but like, I don't know, even for
01:05:06.920 them to treat Ozempic that way when Ozempic itself, number one, is not a solution for
01:05:12.180 everyone, but number two is like objectively an insane innovation.
01:05:16.820 The way that these people move in and out of being okay with these pharmaceutical companies
01:05:23.560 is so fascinating to me.
01:05:25.520 Yeah, I mean, at this point, the main theme that I think I've picked up on is just complete mistrust for modern medicine. I think they're actually pretty entrenched in the fact that they don't really speak positively about any medical intervention, even antibiotics. They trash those, too. And it's like, oh, you mean the reason that the population—
01:05:49.560 That we live past 40?
01:05:51.240 Yeah, that we live.
01:05:52.120 Okay, cool.
01:05:53.240 Okay, so the funny thing about RFK Jr. is Bobby.
01:05:57.300 I know that was such a little flex when he was like, yeah, Bobby. 0.99
01:06:00.240 I was like, oh, you fucked it. 1.00
01:06:03.360 Sucking on those suntanned balls. 1.00
01:06:06.100 I spent about 10 days reading stuff for this episode from the last 10, 15, 20 years about wellness circles going off the deep end. 1.00
01:06:14.720 And I shit you not, pretty much every single source from this time frame that talked about vaccine misinformation mentioned Robert F. Kennedy Jr. specifically.
01:06:27.400 Like, it would be, like, prominent anti-vaccine misinformation proponents, like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. 0.99
01:06:32.360 And I was just like, what the fuck is going on? 0.99
01:06:34.540 Every single time. 0.83
01:06:35.860 But as far as his central role in, like, the current political movement, because obviously he's been in this world for a while,
01:06:41.660 So there's some good reporting from New York Magazine on, like, the scope of Maha, and it traced the slogan to a sweet green ad in 2016.
01:06:50.900 Poor sweet green.
01:06:51.780 Make America healthy again, which they were announcing that they were removing bacon and sriracha from their menus.
01:06:57.060 But it became a really central talking point for the campaign at a joint Donald Trump-RFK Jr. rally in Glendale, Arizona, after RFK suspended his run for president, when RFK asked the crowd, don't you want a safe environment for your children? 0.99
01:07:17.040 All the people in the rally are like, motherfucking guns. 0.99
01:07:23.380 Hell yeah, brother, load them up. 0.99
01:07:25.580 Okay, so we're going to go back to the free press panel. 1.00
01:07:28.060 We're going to hear Barry ask Vani Hari why Maha Moms are the key. 0.99
01:07:34.540 Wait, is Vani Hari food, babe? 1.00
01:07:36.940 That's right.
01:07:38.060 Katie, she was in that EV magazine.
01:07:40.320 That's right.
01:07:42.380 Oh my God, I'm so excited.
01:07:45.080 Now I think you can argue that the new soccer mom is the Maha Mom.
01:07:50.020 And Vani, I feel like you exemplify that.
01:07:53.480 You channel it. 0.96
01:07:54.320 You are the tiger mom of this, the Maha mom movement. 0.98
01:07:58.480 Like, explain, give us a sense of that world. 0.78
01:08:01.880 And like, are these women particularly political? 1.00
01:08:05.060 Have they become political because of seeing what's going on with their kids? 1.00
01:08:08.880 Like, give us a bit of a picture of that world.
01:08:11.580 I mean, they're fed up.
01:08:12.480 They're fed up with the mass poisoning of our food system.
01:08:15.600 They see that American companies are using better, safer ingredients in other products
01:08:20.180 overseas while selling the same version of their product here with more toxic,
01:08:23.680 more poisonous ingredients, everything from Kellogg's cereal and General Mills Lucky Charms
01:08:28.260 to Coca-Cola products and PepsiCo and chips. And they see the side-by-side graphics that are going
01:08:35.420 viral in their groups online, and they're fed up. And they're just dying for some healthy food for
01:08:42.200 their children, right? They just want to hold someone accountable. They not only care about
01:08:46.740 their own health, but they're willing to go to bat. They're willing to call corporations. They're
01:08:50.400 willing to show up at the headquarters.
01:08:52.840 I mean, when I was met with, and Callie was there,
01:08:54.720 it was incredible.
01:08:55.880 A thousand people on the ground in Battle Creek, Michigan
01:08:59.480 to deliver 400,000 signatures to Kellogg's headquarters.
01:09:03.460 I've never seen that kind of movement on the ground,
01:09:06.160 especially in a little town like Battle Creek, Michigan,
01:09:08.020 that there's no direct flights, you know, really.
01:09:09.820 You know, you have to really get there.
01:09:11.420 I have no idea where it is.
01:09:12.300 Exactly.
01:09:12.840 I mean, it's like an hour and a half south
01:09:15.260 from Grand Rapids, Michigan.
01:09:16.260 So yeah, two hours from Detroit.
01:09:18.760 But again, this is pent up frustration about the fact that our kids are suffering more than ever. 38% of preteens, the ages between 12 and 18, are going to be pre-diabetic. That's unacceptable.
01:09:35.400 All right. Can I say something?
01:09:37.280 Please.
01:09:37.880 you know what's striking me is so interesting right now is that yeah the whole thing is our
01:09:44.940 kids are suffering our kids are dying it's also not from gun violence though from from not from
01:09:51.620 gun violence no no no shut up snowflake it's also true that alternatives are available and i would
01:09:59.380 be willing to bet that all of the women who are in this charge their children are not suffering
01:10:04.600 When they say our children are suffering, I'm like, well, I'm willing to bet that your house 0.99
01:10:08.520 is filled, if you actually care about this, with all of the expensive shit you get at Whole Foods. 0.99
01:10:14.640 It's available. The problem is that it's expensive. And the problem is that it is not 0.99
01:10:18.700 readily available to communities. But the great irony is that the communities who are hurt by
01:10:24.500 this are not in this group. And I know you mentioned that at the beginning, but it's just
01:10:28.460 really striking to me the way that they keep going, our children are being poisoned. Our
01:10:32.920 children are suffering. And I'm like, bitch, no, they're not. I'm sure you have organic Greek 1.00
01:10:37.580 yogurt in your fridge. You actually can buy raw milk. You can access vegetables. It's not like
01:10:43.280 the government is hiding that from you. It's that there are also foods with preservatives. But none
01:10:48.300 of these arguments are framed such as we are fighting for the marginalized communities who
01:10:53.840 don't have time to fight for themselves. It's like this very weird mixing of, well, you're not
01:10:58.400 actually fighting for your children, but you're actually not including the people whose children
01:11:01.580 that you're fighting for.
01:11:02.900 Because if you were actually fighting for the children
01:11:04.580 who are being hurt by a lack of access
01:11:07.440 to affordable and nutritious foods,
01:11:09.760 you wouldn't be delivering signatures to Kellogg's
01:11:12.960 about a dye they use in Froot Loops.
01:11:15.020 Right.
01:11:15.460 That would not be the path that you would take, right?
01:11:17.860 Right, right.
01:11:19.140 So a couple of sentiments that she shared.
01:11:22.180 I think she used the word poisonous three times.
01:11:25.480 Cancer. 1.00
01:11:25.760 Our food system is poison.
01:11:27.880 They're poisoning our children.
01:11:29.480 There's poisonous ingredients in this food. American kids are fat. These are extremely 1.00
01:11:37.680 hyperbolic statements, and I just want to call this out on the pre-diabetic thing because this
01:11:43.540 is another factoid that gets thrown out there a lot in this world. Pre-diabetes is a label that
01:11:49.760 began being used in the United States in 2002. It was introduced by the American Diabetes
01:11:54.960 Association, the World Health Organization does not recognize it as a legitimate health marker
01:12:01.280 because they think it lacks predictive scientific value. It's basically this question of like,
01:12:05.520 well, how pre is pre? Where's the cutoff line? It's kind of arbitrary. And according to the CDC,
01:12:12.320 the rate of prediabetes conditions that turn into diabetes is less than like 2% per year.
01:12:18.200 All that to say, I just found that little diatribe to be very useful for where we're going next and kind of very telling about what it is they're actually concerned with and, like, what they're pointing to as the problems.
01:12:36.700 So this is also from the reporting in New York Magazine.
01:12:42.060 Thank God we're getting a break from Barry.
01:12:43.680 Okay. The movement's unorthodox wellness agenda, articulated on message boards and podcasts, holds that the nation has been made sick by everything from vaccines to pesticides to food dyes to seed oils to processed foods to microplastics, all of it fueled by corporate regulatory capture.
01:13:03.360 It proposes to remedy the sickness via the adoption of wholesome school lunches, raw dairy, unfluoridated water, regenerated soil, plain old vigorous exercise, and other holistic fixes, some of which circumvent the guidance of the medical establishment. 0.90
01:13:18.040 You know that these people fucking hated when Michelle Obama tried to make kids' school lunches healthier. 0.99
01:13:23.080 You know that they fucking hated that. 0.99
01:13:26.280 Okay. 0.99
01:13:26.600 Yeah.
01:13:27.140 This has been tried.
01:13:28.400 You guys stopped it.
01:13:29.200 The secret doctors don't want you to know.
01:13:31.820 exercise. The movement has drawn in Hollywood actors, nutrition influencers, dissident
01:13:38.940 physicians, my favorite kind of physician, organic vintners, small-scale farmers, longevity
01:13:44.720 entrepreneurs, psychedelic drug advocates, and new age environmentalists. What links them is
01:13:50.860 RFK Jr., who shares every one of their concerns. Even if these camps may not always agree with him
01:13:58.140 or one another, and whom Trump has tapped to serve as his Secretary of Health and Human Services.
01:14:03.800 The grift machine is running in overdrive right now. So remember when I was like, hey,
01:14:11.100 like, how are they characterizing this? It's always like movement, revolution, coalition.
01:14:17.580 And it feels really important to emphasize that what this is, first and foremost, is an industry.
01:14:23.080 this is an industry the continual benign framing of maha solutions and approaches as a movement
01:14:33.860 implies that they are like exempted from the same profit motives that drive the pharmaceutical and
01:14:40.460 food industries that they are constantly criticizing right they are not exempted from
01:14:44.780 that they are an industry they're just an industry who is selling you something different i want to
01:14:49.780 give you an example of how this typically goes down so now we're going to watch a turning point
01:14:53.160 usa influencers ad for protein powder we should make an exception for no ads and sell supplements 0.96
01:15:01.340 but only ones that make you less healthy supplements that make you gay yeah exactly 0.80
01:15:09.400 supplements that make your parents hate you did you know that 70 percent of protein powders have 0.97
01:15:13.680 been found to contain lead arsenic cadmium and mercury sounds like something else we put into
01:15:18.320 our bodies that isn't so good for us. Big protein powder doesn't want you to know this. Then you
01:15:22.340 have soy protein, which is also horrible. 90% of soy is sprayed with glyphosate. And soy for you
01:15:27.500 men out there mimics estrogen in the body, lowering your testosterone, messing up your
01:15:31.400 thyroid and causing weight gain. Then you have these artificial sweeteners, which are terrible
01:15:35.100 for your gut. You have non grass fed whey. So you're getting whey from cows who are pumped
01:15:39.500 full of steroids, hormones and antibiotics. Guys, if you need to use protein powder,
01:15:43.600 Use a protein powder with 100% grass-fed whey without any of the fillers, and that has been heavy metal.
01:15:49.800 Okay.
01:15:50.260 Let me guess.
01:15:50.780 It's his protein powder.
01:15:53.480 Whoever's protein powder it is, they're paying him to say it.
01:15:56.140 You might have remembered, like, in Laura Trump's show, she's like, the left is just fear-mongering.
01:16:01.120 Meanwhile, the Turning Point USA influencers on Instagram are like, this is full of estrogen, and this is bad for your microbiome.
01:16:08.000 Like there is so much health fear mongering that like everything around you is going to
01:16:14.340 damage or hurt you if you are not hyper vigilant and that like you need to be using supplements
01:16:20.680 that are accounting for all of these dangerous and nefarious changes that again, like you
01:16:27.600 kind of get this idea in the protein powder out of it's going to make you more feminine
01:16:31.260 if you're using the wrong kind of protein powder. 1.00
01:16:34.240 There's one that's going to introduce too much estrogen to your body.
01:16:37.480 Which is the worst case scenario for the American male. Yeah. And I would also say that I do understand how scientific words can sound so smart. To quote you, like, this probably goes so fucking hard if you're stupid. I can totally see how it would be like, oh, I don't want the glucomyosophate in my relacifactors. I don't know. Like, whatever. I'm not a doctor. I guess I'll just listen to this fucking lug nut in his sunroom.
01:17:04.840 Did you notice the anti-vax thing in the beginning? 0.99
01:17:08.160 Sure did. Wasn't subtle.
01:17:10.500 He's like, they're filled with mercury and lead. It sounds like something else. And then he like, actually, he's like jabbing his arm.
01:17:18.240 Yeah.
01:17:18.880 Okay, so Naomi Klein kind of talks about this, this like rhetorical pattern that you'll see to call something out about modern medicine, suggest that it's a scam, and then sell you something else to fix that.
01:17:33.120 These statements sum up a pervasive logic in the more entrepreneurial parts of the wellness sector.
01:17:38.700 Doctors and drug companies want you to be sick so that they can sell you Band-Aids,
01:17:42.460 while fitness and wellness professionals want you to be well,
01:17:45.680 but first you have to buy whatever they are selling instead.
01:17:48.640 The larger and more profitable the wellness industry grows,
01:17:52.040 the fiercer this competitive perspective becomes,
01:17:55.160 to the point where even going to the doctor or getting a prescription filled
01:17:58.480 can seem like a failure of wellness.
01:18:01.000 Clear evidence that you did not juice or train hard enough.
01:18:04.240 Lining up with all of those regular, i.e. toxic, unfit people to get injected with something that requires no special knowledge or virtue to access,
01:18:12.920 and, most suspicious of all in a market system, doesn't cost any money, can be enough to cause a full-blown identity crisis.
01:18:19.660 Wow, that's so interesting. That's really good.
01:18:24.400 Right. Yeah, and wellness globally is a humongous industry.
01:18:29.700 So there's this group called the Global Wellness Institute, and they claim that wellness is a $6.3 trillion industry globally as of 2023.
01:18:43.380 They write, quote, it has grown rapidly in the aftermath of the pandemic. 0.90
01:18:47.760 I would also imagine that when you get inculcated into this world and you assume that, frankly, that health is an elite thing, the idea of poor people getting access to health is, well, what gives you the fucking right?
01:18:59.180 Why do you get to be healthy?
01:19:01.720 I'm really interested in the idea of a vaccine being like, yeah, they're going to claim that it's not working, but I wonder if there's also this subconscious thing of, well, why do you get to do that?
01:19:10.880 I'm paying for it.
01:19:12.040 I'm paying for my health.
01:19:13.700 You shouldn't get your health for free.
01:19:15.060 Yeah, or I'm like, I'm working so hard to be healthy in these other ways.
01:19:19.500 I deserve to be healthy and you're taking the shortcut.
01:19:23.160 I actually didn't notice it until this third rewatch that we just did.
01:19:26.600 But the fact that Barry described activities like drinking Coke as low status, I was like, oh, that's actually really interesting to call that out.
01:19:35.020 I know that people associate weight with status, but I, like, anecdotally do not find the soda thing to be true. 0.80
01:19:42.580 I feel like I know a lot of hella rich people who drink a fuck ton of soda.
01:19:47.720 In that $6.3 trillion estimate, they are including a number of, like, sub-industries.
01:19:53.920 I would say we should probably shave off about a trillion to cut out the beauty and personal care because I actually don't really consider that part of this, the physical activity, the wellness, tourism, weight loss, wellness, real estate, thermal and mineral springs, like things that are like more explicitly positioning themselves as being stand-ins for modern medicine or like actually engaging with medication.
01:20:19.300 But even then, we're talking about $5 trillion globally, which is substantial.
01:20:24.620 That's crazy.
01:20:25.720 Supplements specifically are $39 billion industry in the U.S.
01:20:29.480 And you'll never guess who dominates supplements.
01:20:35.140 Joe Rogan?
01:20:35.460 What would you like to guess?
01:20:37.440 No.
01:20:38.700 The pharmaceutical industry.
01:20:40.520 Oh.
01:20:42.800 So there's this scientific publisher data analytics company called Elsevier,
01:20:47.740 and they published these findings in 2023.
01:20:53.000 As Harvard Health's Patrick J. Skerritt notes,
01:20:55.980 according to the terms of the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994,
01:21:01.040 supplements with established ingredients, i.e. those that had been sold in the U.S. before 1994,
01:21:06.700 can be marketed without any evidence that they are effective or safe.
01:21:10.000 Nice.
01:21:10.980 Compare this hands-off approach with the strict rules and regulations for drugs, Skerritt writes.
01:21:15.400 No drug can be sold until the FDA has clear proof that it is safe and effective, and every FDA-approved drug must be made to strict specifications.
01:21:24.580 One can imagine that some pharmaceutical drug makers might fume over this situation.
01:21:29.640 After all, while they take on the serious and costly work of running intensive drug trials and conducting post-market surveillance,
01:21:37.080 dietary supplement makers can just grind up a few plants, put them in a bottle, and then forego responsibility.
01:21:42.360 Except for one thing. The reality is that even though the regulations on pharmaceuticals and nutraceuticals are as different as night and day, the companies creating them are not sick, sick, sick.
01:21:54.940 Increasingly, Big Pharma and Big Herba, that's hilarious, are indistinguishable, claims Paramore.
01:22:00.960 The very same mega-companies with gigantic chemical labs that make drugs are cooking up vitamin and herbal supplements labeled with sunny terms like natural and wholesome.
01:22:10.560 Pfizer, Unilever, Novartis, GlaxoSmithKline, they need to work on their name, and other
01:22:15.780 big pharmaceutical firms make or sell supplements.
01:22:19.140 While she does acknowledge there are a few small companies still in the mix, Paramore
01:22:23.440 says they represent a small fraction of the total sales in the $39 billion a year supplement
01:22:28.300 industry.
01:22:29.420 Many of these pharma companies have made the foray into supplements because it plays to
01:22:33.220 their strengths while being far, far cheaper than drug development.
01:22:37.260 Oh my god. 1.00
01:22:39.580 It's just like a circle fuck of idiots. 1.00
01:22:43.400 Isn't it? 1.00
01:22:43.820 It's a Russian nesting doll of bullshit is what it is. 1.00
01:22:47.440 Oh, my God. 1.00
01:22:48.860 I'm assuming that these are just the supplements then that these influencers hawk.
01:22:53.160 Well, we're going to get to that.
01:22:56.200 We'll see.
01:22:58.080 But yeah, I was just like, oh, perfect.
01:23:00.620 They talk at length about the nefarious intentions of big pharma
01:23:06.220 and how you should be focusing on all these other methods and means instead.
01:23:11.560 And then it's like you pull the mask off the other things and it's like,
01:23:14.280 surprise! It's also Big Pharma.
01:23:17.080 The pharmaceuticals are just like so fucking chill doing whatever. 0.88
01:23:19.980 They're like, yeah, it doesn't matter. 0.75
01:23:21.420 Like, we'll do supplements. We'll do medicine.
01:23:23.420 Okay, so now we're going to swing back over to the free press stage.
01:23:26.780 We're going to hear more from Vani Hari, a.k.a. Food Babe.
01:23:30.500 I grew up with two immigrant Indian parents and they had an arranged marriage.
01:23:34.500 And my dad had been living here for several years.
01:23:36.220 to go to school. And he married my mom, you know, met her five days later, brought her to the United
01:23:41.360 States. She lived here for the rest of her life. And he says, you know, if we're going to be
01:23:44.200 Americans, we're going to eat like Americans. And here is a McDonald's hamburger. And that is how
01:23:49.840 I was raised fast food, processed food. And as a result, I was in and out of the doctor's offices
01:23:55.760 most of my life. And it was not until my early twenties on nine prescription drugs, overweight
01:24:01.360 in the hospital, getting an organ taken out of my body that I woke up and said, something's not
01:24:06.760 right. I need to look into this. And I channeled this energy that I learned in high school on how
01:24:10.820 to debate and how to research back then we didn't have Google. So I went to the library, checked out
01:24:15.440 big books on nutrition. And there was this concept in one of them that just hit me on the head. And
01:24:20.660 it was that the majority of foods on the grocery store shelves are dead. And I said, that's how I
01:24:26.900 for most of my life. How do I eat live food? How do I eat real food? And when I switched my diet,
01:24:33.280 I went off nine prescription drugs, never had a diet again, lost all the weight,
01:24:38.260 started to live a life that I never thought was possible. So dramatic that the friends and the
01:24:42.900 family and everyone around me that saw me grow up in this miserable position said, I want to have
01:24:48.200 what you're having. And so I started a blog and before starting the blog, I was never on social
01:24:53.780 media because I thought I wanted to run for office one day. And, um, well, you know, I was
01:25:03.440 scared to put anything personal online at that point. And so then I was like, okay, well, everyone's
01:25:07.100 like, you have to join Facebook because no one's going to read your blog. Otherwise that's how we
01:25:10.280 share everything. And I'm like, okay, I'll, I'll join Facebook. And, and I wanted to call it eat
01:25:14.320 healthy, live forever.com. My husband, who's a tech geek in the family thought that was a stupid 1.00
01:25:18.400 name and says, how about food, babe? It's available $10 on auction. And I said, okay, 0.99
01:25:24.020 well, I didn't feel like a food babe for most of my life, but why don't I teach other people to
01:25:27.220 become a food babe? And I kind of hid behind this persona because I was still working in the
01:25:31.160 corporate world, working for C-level executives at big banks. And I had this other passion to
01:25:36.400 teach people the truth about what was happening in the food industry. And when I started to uncover
01:25:40.840 the ingredients behind these popular food products, fast food, et cetera, and release them on the
01:25:47.760 blog for the first time, really for anyone to see online, that is when this awakening started where
01:25:54.240 people were like, what? I'm eating a hundred chemicals in a Chick-fil-A chicken sandwich.
01:25:59.120 What is going on? Right. And it was that, that led me to changing several billion dollar
01:26:05.820 corporations for the better. And, but then I had kids, right. I had kids and I had to make a shift.
01:26:11.660 And so I decided to change the food industry from the inside and start my own company, Truvani.
01:26:17.760 but then Callie called. I can't believe how insufferable that speech was. She was like,
01:26:26.600 and then everyone was begging me to start a blog. And then they were like, Bonnie,
01:26:31.040 you've got to start a Facebook. And I was like, no, no, I'm not ready. I want to run for office
01:26:36.360 one day. And then my husband was like, how about food, babe? And I was like, whatever you say.
01:26:42.860 And now I have this amazing awakening that started all because of me.
01:26:49.080 Oh, my.
01:26:50.620 Oh, I guess I bet she cares a lot about climate change, right? 1.00
01:26:53.180 Because she cares about the health of her children. 0.87
01:26:55.280 Is she really worried about the toxins in her hair?
01:26:57.200 You would think, you know, it's funny that the imminent heat death of the planet never seems to come up for these people. 1.00
01:27:02.980 First of all, the hundred chemicals and I was like, keep my transphobic waffle fries out of your fucking mouth. 1.00
01:27:10.780 I will not stand. I will not stand for this disparagement of my chicken sandwich. 1.00
01:27:19.240 It is my most cancelable quality, in fact.
01:27:22.000 Oh, don't sell yourself short. I'm sure you've got worse.
01:27:26.160 It's top 10. Okay, anyone familiar with the weight loss world knows how exceedingly rare
01:27:33.300 The experience that she is describing is, okay, I went off nine drugs. I lost all the weight all
01:27:43.020 because I started eating healthy foods. It's like this very Miracle Cure infomercial-esque
01:27:49.880 claim structure of everything in my life was falling apart. I was in and out of the hospital.
01:27:55.980 I was on all this medication. And then I like read a book that talked about eating vegetables.
01:28:01.860 and suddenly I was cured.
01:28:05.100 And she didn't have Google then. 1.00
01:28:06.500 She fucking went to the library and found her cell. 0.98
01:28:08.940 And I'm like, how fucking long ago was this? 1.00
01:28:10.620 You're like 40 years old. 0.78
01:28:11.880 What do you mean you didn't have Google? 1.00
01:28:15.660 It's such pull yourself up by your bootstraps bullshit. 1.00
01:28:18.680 She's like, and I didn't even have a car. 1.00
01:28:20.440 And so I would walk to the library.
01:28:21.900 These cars didn't exist then.
01:28:23.100 Uphill both ways lugging the big books.
01:28:26.920 Okay, but did you catch that at the end?
01:28:28.460 Then I decided to change the food industry from the inside.
01:28:33.620 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1.00
01:28:34.200 Caroline, she sells protein powder. 1.00
01:28:37.440 Of course she does. 0.95
01:28:38.520 She sells supplements. 1.00
01:28:40.220 That is her fucking business. 1.00
01:28:41.880 That is the business she is talking about. 1.00
01:28:43.640 That is how she makes money. 0.99
01:28:44.820 She sells supplements. 1.00
01:28:46.060 Okay, the problem is that she is clearly very, very passionate.
01:28:51.000 She clearly really believes what she is selling.
01:28:54.820 But there is a wide range of accuracy to the claims that she is making.
01:28:59.860 For example, at one point, she is criticizing the regulatory relationship
01:29:04.220 between government agencies and corporations.
01:29:08.020 That's a completely legitimate critique.
01:29:10.720 Like, that's true.
01:29:12.280 That's worthy of reform.
01:29:14.140 But she also says this.
01:29:15.160 And when you look at nutrition labels and you look at ingredient labels
01:29:18.960 and you see all of those chemical names,
01:29:21.660 they're not there for a nutritional purpose.
01:29:23.940 And this is one of the most fundamental things the human, you know, every human should know is that if you don't recognize an ingredient and you don't see it as something you would find in nature, it's not there to improve nutrition.
01:29:36.680 It's there to improve the bottom line of the food industry.
01:29:39.460 When you opt out of that science experiment, you start to realize a level of health that you never thought was possible.
01:29:45.020 And you start to get off all the pharmaceuticals.
01:29:47.480 You start to lose the weight.
01:29:48.620 You start to feel better in a way that is incredible.
01:29:52.580 And that's where you find your brain start working again.
01:29:54.840 And then you find you're calling and you're not depressed anymore.
01:29:57.280 And you're doing what you're supposed to be doing in this world.
01:29:59.780 I like want what you're having.
01:30:01.560 I'm like, this chick, this, you look so big.
01:30:05.320 Even the jump of, I want to be eating living food.
01:30:08.340 I've heard that before from influencers.
01:30:10.380 I think there is a certain element of truth to that,
01:30:12.740 that like certain vegetables have more vitamins when they're fresher
01:30:15.980 than when they're like a week and a half old.
01:30:18.100 I think that there is a lot of legitimacy to wanting to have access
01:30:21.660 to fresh food. And I think that people should be able to access that. But how does that get
01:30:27.100 to her selling fucking protein powder and supplements? How is that getting people fresh 1.00
01:30:31.140 food? You know what? Let me take a step back. A, anything you're buying in a grocery store is dead.
01:30:36.440 Right. Including the produce. That produce is also dead. Right. The heritage pork,
01:30:41.340 as God intended, or whatever the fuck Hannah Nealman sells, also dead. That's like such a 1.00
01:30:46.460 meaningless distinction to begin with. But the thing that you're hitting on that's important is
01:30:50.900 that there isn't a way to monetize actually fixing the problems that they're talking about.
01:30:57.720 Increasing access to fruits and vegetables for populations across this country that do not
01:31:02.380 currently have easy access to them, whether that's because they are working multiple low-wage
01:31:07.960 part-time shift work or they live 45 minutes from the grocery store, there is no quick way to make
01:31:15.660 money on that. So that's not what they're selling, right? But the idea that any ingredient with a
01:31:21.500 name you don't recognize is bad, I was like, lady, what are you talking about? I don't know
01:31:28.420 shit about shit in the health world, and even I know that's not true. It is this non-scientific 0.99
01:31:33.840 obsession with purity, this state of human nirvana that could be achieved through like
01:31:39.600 this militant commitment to nature. But arsenic, cyanide, these are both totally natural substances.
01:31:48.140 They will both kill you. It's also funny because I would guess that all things considered,
01:31:53.360 humans are probably the healthiest that they've ever been in human history. The idea of looking
01:31:59.740 back in time and arguing that there was a time period where humans were healthier because there
01:32:05.800 wasn't as much technology is it's a very fanciful thing I'm sure I do it sometimes from time to time
01:32:10.880 like things were so much simpler than the average age of death for people was like 30 up until 1.00
01:32:18.340 100 or 200 years ago I would even say with indigenous populations there is so much we can 0.98
01:32:24.000 learn from them but we often fetishize them too yeah and the suggestion that they had perfect
01:32:28.640 health it's like yeah there is a lot to improve upon but I'm always interested on this claim that
01:32:34.020 things are getting worse. And I'm like, well, based on what data set, based on like the very,
01:32:38.040 very narrow fluctuations of decade by decade, when really we should be zooming out over
01:32:43.040 thousands of years to understand how much healthier humans have gotten over time or not.
01:32:48.260 Maybe I'm wrong, but like that, I'm much more interested in that than someone saying
01:32:52.040 over the last 10 years, we're that much sicker where it's like, okay, cool,
01:32:55.980 then we can make some policy changes. But that doesn't indicate that we have
01:32:58.660 strayed really far from the path.
01:33:01.100 we're going to spend some time on these claims about like a poisonous food system as well as
01:33:06.140 some of these claims about having never been sicker or that the modern life is somehow making
01:33:11.700 us all extremely unhealthy and like the extent to which that's true and where that's true and
01:33:17.960 where it is just obviously bullshit so a lot of this stuff overlaps with the anti-vax stuff 0.61
01:33:25.360 for obvious reasons, right? 0.95
01:33:27.980 So I figured we could watch a reel
01:33:31.420 from an Austin influencer named Diary of a Crunchy Mom 0.87
01:33:36.580 who posts a lot of supplement
01:33:38.840 and wellness routine recommendations. 0.99
01:33:40.880 I learned that right now she's on a parasite cleanse.
01:33:44.620 So bear in mind,
01:33:45.620 there is an active measles outbreak in Texas right now.
01:33:49.960 So we're going to watch this reel
01:33:51.200 and I just need you to read the text.
01:33:54.500 Okay, the caption says, it's one of those reels where you have, like, the caption and the person's walking around behind it.
01:34:01.040 Okay, the caption says,
01:34:02.740 Everyone wants to talk about the one child that passed with measles for the first time in 20 years,
01:34:07.580 but no one wants to talk about the 115 children reported in the VAERS database itself that have died from the MMR vaccine.
01:34:18.560 Oh, my God.
01:34:22.300 The caption says,
01:34:23.920 indisputable fact that you can find yourself by looking at VAERS. So, honestly, I don't want to
01:34:31.620 hear it. Okay. She posted this two weeks ago, okay, when Akita just died from measles. So,
01:34:38.400 Caroline, are you familiar with this VAERS database? No, I'm not. So, it is everywhere
01:34:43.820 in this content. They're constantly referencing this database. It stands for Vaccine Adverse
01:34:49.300 event reporting system on the CDC website. Anyone can submit anything. If you scroll through the
01:34:56.040 thousands of reports, you will see everything from gunshot wounds to imprisonment being reported as
01:35:02.800 vaccine side effects. There's not like a legitimation process that you go through. You can
01:35:07.940 just claim anything. It's self-reported. Yes, it was intended to be an early warning system
01:35:13.700 for potentially unforeseen problems with approved vaccines that might be worth investigating.
01:35:19.300 because when you give tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of people a drug,
01:35:25.880 there will be adverse effects for some tiny portion of them.
01:35:29.480 Like, in medicine, anything that has the potential to do good also has the potential to do harm.
01:35:36.760 In 1997, it helped doctors adjust the vaccination schedule for the polio vaccine
01:35:42.240 because there were between 8 and 10 cases per year of vaccine-induced paralysis.
01:35:48.240 Now, globally, we're talking like eight to 10 cases per year out of 400 million vaccinations.
01:35:55.320 Teeny, teeny, tiny, but like it's a way for them to make sure that they're not missing something once the sample size gets big enough and then they can adjust accordingly.
01:36:03.840 So here's Jillian Michaels bringing up the measles vaccine at this free press panel.
01:36:10.040 And again, credit to Barry where it's due. 1.00
01:36:12.400 she is explaining the definition of public health to these fucking quacks which is kind of delightful 1.00
01:36:17.720 um here's barry weiss explaining how vaccines work to jillian michaels 0.99
01:36:22.320 i guess the difference jillian between vaccines and your decision to eat fruit loops is vaccines
01:36:30.120 let's say against one we would all agree is essential polio but hold on but the difference
01:36:36.760 is it relies on herd immunity it relies on us making a collective choice in a way that few
01:36:43.580 other public health issues do that's why it's such a different case by case you can't just
01:36:50.380 lump all vaccines into one thing you can't do no i'm just making a categorical difference of why
01:36:56.040 i don't think it's a red herring to talk about because well okay well to say okay so to say
01:37:01.540 kennedy was responsible for samoa no he wasn't what ended up happening in 2018 is that two kids
01:37:06.240 died from an MMR vaccine that was improperly prepared. And that's exactly the kind of stuff
01:37:11.820 he's advocating to prevent forever. He was out there in 2019. He had no direct connection to
01:37:17.960 that incident whatsoever, and yet was smeared with it. And let's be very clear. Bobby, very
01:37:23.240 let's Bobby Kennedy is not responsible for the lack of faith of our public health authorities.
01:37:28.300 The public health authorities are responsible for that. Oh, clap, clap, clap, clap. Yes,
01:37:33.080 oh my god you really ate babe holy shit i'm speechless didn't you love when they all start 0.99
01:37:39.860 talking over each other and they're like well you gotta go case by case you have to go case by case 0.98
01:37:44.760 i'm sure that you you know me well enough by now to know that throughout this whole conversation i
01:37:50.100 am i am just like swallowing a huge urge to rant for the rest of my life about how
01:37:56.200 media is responsible for all of this and i'm just like watching these three 0.99
01:38:00.780 fucking ignoramuses on a massive platform and just being like yeah they're wrong but also 0.99
01:38:09.080 who cares if they're wrong why do these people have a platform most people are wrong about 0.99
01:38:15.760 most stuff how did we end up here except for us except for us but like genuinely because that's
01:38:21.980 where you always get people have always believed conspiracy theories there have always been people
01:38:26.980 who believe things with no substantive evidence and you can't eradicate that from the human
01:38:33.020 population. I think that that like goes in line with innovation and like human curiosity is humans
01:38:38.360 just designed to believe random bullshit. But what we do have now that we have never had before are
01:38:43.060 these fucking platforms that allow these people to position themselves as experts. And I'm like, 0.98
01:38:48.720 who gives a fuck what Vani Hari thinks about vaccines? You are not a public health expert. 0.99
01:38:55.340 these people are like not credible officials. They don't know anything. Why are they there?
01:39:02.000 Why is she talking to them? You would think there would be like one medical professional 0.86
01:39:07.160 on the stage who could be like, well, actually. Just one, but apparently.
01:39:12.660 Can we talk to somebody who went to fucking medical school? 0.99
01:39:15.460 The free press does not like doctors. So we've kind of like been dancing around 0.99
01:39:19.620 the measles thing a little bit. We've talked about the crunchy mom influencer who's like,
01:39:24.360 check VAERS. People are dying of the MMR vaccine. Jillian Michaels is repeating on stage,
01:39:29.460 well, those kids died because of an improperly prepared vaccine. So in Congo, where vaccination
01:39:37.760 rates against measles are around 52 percent because vaccination is so challenging to access
01:39:43.420 there. These vaccines have to be refrigerated. The transportation is very difficult. There were
01:39:49.460 more than 311,000 reported cases of measles there in 2023. Wow. 6,000 kids died, often within days
01:39:59.840 of getting sick. Oh my God. So this is from some New York Times reporting on what's happening in
01:40:08.120 Congo. They write, quote, measles causes immune amnesia, wiping out immunity to other infections
01:40:15.880 that children may have built up
01:40:17.780 and making them vulnerable to gastrointestinal
01:40:21.380 and respiratory infections such as pneumonia,
01:40:24.880 which seems to have been what killed Olive.
01:40:26.960 Olive is a little girl that was the feature in this piece.
01:40:31.340 Diarrhea can quickly kill a child
01:40:33.440 who is already frail from undernutrition.
01:40:35.560 An estimated four and a half million Congolese children
01:40:39.560 are acutely malnourished.
01:40:42.060 So, what are the big risks that are killing children in the world?
01:40:47.920 Undernutrition, immune system amnesia from diseases like measles, and a lack of vaccination against diseases like measles.
01:40:57.280 So I want you to bear all that in mind while we watch a clip from a CNN segment about a woman named Zen Honeycutt. 0.99
01:41:05.780 Oh my fucking God. 0.99
01:41:09.520 Hey chickens. 1.00
01:41:11.060 One, two, three, four, five, six, 17 chickens.
01:41:14.320 And that's George Clooney, the rooster.
01:41:16.600 Zen Honeycutt moved to this farm 0.96
01:41:18.360 because she wanted to be able to grow her own food.
01:41:20.740 My kids can now eat eggs from our chickens
01:41:23.720 and milk from our goats,
01:41:25.320 even though they used to have those allergies.
01:41:27.180 That just goes to show you, it's not the food,
01:41:29.620 it's what's been done to the food. 0.99
01:41:31.300 Her crusade against the food industry 0.76
01:41:32.940 started 12 years ago.
01:41:34.220 So I was like millions of moms across America
01:41:36.940 dealing with allergies and autoimmune issues.
01:41:39.740 I was a very stressed-out mother because I thought my kids could die from food.
01:41:43.800 It wasn't until 2012 when I learned about GMOs and the food supply,
01:41:48.640 and I was like, this has got to be it.
01:41:50.340 GMOs and the food supply, this has got to be it.
01:41:53.460 She's the nonprofit's primary employee and rallies a grassroots network
01:41:57.380 to, quote, raise awareness about toxic exposure. 1.00
01:42:00.080 God, get one of these organizations, a good graphic designer. 1.00
01:42:03.120 I mean, there's a saying goes that a worried mom does better research than the FBI.
01:42:06.960 So for you, it's all connected?
01:42:10.220 Yeah, it's all connected, yes.
01:42:11.320 It's vaccines, it's GMOs, it's glyphosate.
01:42:14.420 According to many scientists, National Vaccine Information Center, Bobby Kennedy,
01:42:18.480 the vaccines are actually weakening the kids' immune systems.
01:42:22.220 By Bobby Kennedy, she means Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
01:42:24.920 He's a former advisor to Moms Across America
01:42:26.940 and has been nominated to lead the Department of Health and Human Services.
01:42:30.420 What was your reaction when you saw that President Trump had named him to this incoming position?
01:42:35.040 I cried. Many other people cried. We were so excited.
01:42:38.540 Guys, it's happening.
01:42:39.920 I was, you know, had been a lifelong Democrat.
01:42:42.120 In this election, did you end up voting Republican?
01:42:45.120 Yes. I think a lot of our moms didn't necessarily just like run to the right. 1.00
01:42:50.880 They felt abandoned by the left.
01:42:53.280 And when the right said, hey, we're we're here for you on health freedom.
01:42:57.960 Health freedom.
01:42:58.580 They said, that's something that I can align with.
01:43:00.240 Could another candidate down the line win you back?
01:43:02.800 Absolutely.
01:43:03.760 Honeycutt now says she's in talks with Kennedy's team about a potential role in the administration.
01:43:09.100 She's no stranger to Washington.
01:43:11.000 She's been coming to Capitol Hill to advocate for food safety issues for years.
01:43:14.620 I don't care if somebody's a Democrat or a Republican.
01:43:17.300 I am visiting them.
01:43:18.200 In 2022, Moms Across America had a lab test 43 samples from school lunches in 15 states
01:43:24.360 and found detectable levels of chemicals, including the weed killer glyphosate,
01:43:28.720 though below the thresholds deemed unsafe by the EPA.
01:43:31.260 It's kind of an important part, don't you think?
01:43:32.940 She brought the data to lawmakers like Senator Cory Booker, who this falls under the Safe
01:43:36.060 School Meals Act.
01:43:36.860 This is a crisis. 0.93
01:43:38.200 Thanks, Hockey Mama.
01:43:39.740 Yes, we do think we rock.
01:43:41.700 We know you rock as well.
01:43:43.320 She spreads the word about her work on social media and her podcast. 0.99
01:43:46.520 Welcome to the new MDs.
01:43:48.360 And I'm thrilled to be the M of the new MDs, one of them anyway.
01:43:51.440 We're all moms here.
01:43:52.200 Not to be confused with actual medical doctor. 1.00
01:43:53.880 From the Democrats that the new administration will get rid of health care.
01:43:57.600 If Kennedy is able to do what he wants to do at the head of the HHS, we won't even need health care.
01:44:03.500 I'm saying we won't be going to the doctors because we won't be sick.
01:44:06.920 We need to get rid of the concept of mandating the vaccines in order to attend school, I believe.
01:44:11.060 Well, I think the next administration is going to be on board with you with that.
01:44:14.040 The claims that you and your group are making, the CDC and the FDA say that vaccines are safe.
01:44:19.560 They say that the schedule for kids is safe.
01:44:22.580 The EPA, the FDA and the USDA say that GMOs are safe.
01:44:27.600 The EPA says that glyphosate is safe in the levels that they've approved.
01:44:32.500 The NIH says vaccines do not cause autism.
01:44:35.320 That doesn't move you at all.
01:44:37.480 No, absolutely not.
01:44:38.360 Because I know even though these governmental agencies say that GMOs and vaccines are safe,
01:44:44.420 I have seen too much independent science to say that they are not.
01:44:48.200 Let's be clear.
01:44:48.940 No one wants to see polio come back, measles, whooping cough.
01:44:52.720 And the way that we're going to not have those diseases come back
01:44:56.280 is for children to have proper nutrition.
01:44:58.800 Unsurprisingly, the CDC refutes Honeycutt's claims,
01:45:01.600 telling CNN vaccines don't weaken the immune system
01:45:04.340 while the diseases they prevent against do.
01:45:06.900 And the best way to prevent deadly outbreaks
01:45:08.660 or debilitating cases of polio, measles, and whooping cough
01:45:11.600 is to get vaccinated.
01:45:12.900 But her fight against the food industry
01:45:14.420 now has many mainstream allies.
01:45:17.000 Senator Bernie Sanders just held a hearing
01:45:18.840 on the health impact and regulation
01:45:20.380 of vulture-processed foods.
01:45:21.620 The rate of childhood obesity in America has tripled.
01:45:25.400 The FDA now says it may ban red food dye in a matter of weeks.
01:45:29.500 What's the unhealthy truth?
01:45:30.360 What's making our children sick?
01:45:31.720 Toxic legacy?
01:45:32.800 Does any of this make you feel like a conspiracy theorist?
01:45:35.220 I don't feel like a conspiracy theorist.
01:45:38.240 I feel that the conspiracy is to shut down information in order to protect the profits of the corporations.
01:45:47.000 That's the real conspiracy.
01:45:48.180 That's what conspiracy theorists think.
01:45:51.420 Dude, why? Why? Why does she get a CNN segment?
01:45:55.400 why okay two things that she is really stuck on and again yeah cnn segment this is not some like
01:46:02.260 fringe media outlet these people are being platformed in the mainstream media yeah
01:46:07.280 gmos in the food supply this has got to be it and the claim that vaccines are weakening immune
01:46:12.080 systems callie means echoes this claim on stage with barry and to her credit again she does push
01:46:19.280 back on him um so before we kind of like get into what these claims mean and like what they tell us 0.60
01:46:25.520 let's watch callie on stage observe another nonsensical tirade i think people start to
01:46:34.800 look at things a little bit more skeptically is around the issue of vaccines and around the issue
01:46:40.880 of skepticism around vaccines because if you just look again common sense of the numbers we live in
01:46:47.020 we live in a country where there's no polio we live in a country where there's no measles and
01:46:51.040 these innovations have been essential life-saving especially for children square for me like contend
01:46:58.160 with that issue for me i'm sure that you've gotten this question many times before i mean it's 72
01:47:02.700 interventions for a kid right so so there's there's 12 different things so what bobby could
01:47:08.800 be saying if you ask the country you know do you support vaccines majority would probably say yes
01:47:13.540 those polls. If you ask the country, should criminal enterprises be continually subjected
01:47:17.460 to science to make sure they're calling the truth when there's an incentive for them to get their
01:47:21.740 products on a schedule to be mandated for every single American and we should continue to subject
01:47:25.200 those pharmaceutical products to science and continue to study them and continue to have
01:47:28.720 transparency in them, 90% of people would say yes. If you actually decipher what Bobby Kennedy has
01:47:32.560 said about vaccines, as it's just a demonstrable statement, he is saying that they should be
01:47:35.720 subjected to science. He is saying pharmaceutical products should be subjected to science.
01:47:39.560 President Trump has declared his intention to investigate why kids are getting sick.
01:47:43.540 As we're all talking about, and so what Casey talks about so eloquently, there's a multifactorial pillars of why we're getting sick, we think.
01:47:50.820 That's food, that's sedentary lifestyle, that's chronic stress, that's circadian rhythm and sleep.
01:47:54.460 And absolutely, it's overprescription to pharmaceuticals.
01:47:57.340 It's the fact that we're on 4.6 billion prescriptions a year.
01:48:00.600 And it might be the fact, even taking what you just said, the fact that we've dramatically increased.
01:48:05.960 And there's a massive incentive for criminal enterprises, GlaxoSmithKline and Merck, to get more and more and more vaccines on the schedule.
01:48:12.200 You cannot watch an NFL game without seeing ad after ad after ad.
01:48:16.240 Okay.
01:48:17.240 It's a lot of words to say I don't believe in vaccines.
01:48:20.400 First of all, we're doing, like, just an absolutely incredible amount of sane washing for RFK Jr.
01:48:26.500 This man has said a lot more than, I want to subject vaccines to science.
01:48:33.300 Yeah.
01:48:33.860 As if, like, we are not currently doing so.
01:48:37.060 RFK Jr. is a one-man anti-vax misinformation circus.
01:48:41.840 Every single report on this cites him specifically as a source of this misinformation.
01:48:48.960 The gall to sit up there and be like, let's be very clear. 0.91
01:48:52.100 He never said, it's like, no, he fucking did many times. 0.95
01:48:55.300 But beyond that, this framing is so sneaky. 0.90
01:48:59.480 Don't you think they should be subjected to science?
01:49:03.540 What do you mean, should they be?
01:49:06.460 You're debating something that has already happened and is already continuing to happen.
01:49:10.500 as a very basic matter of fact.
01:49:14.560 Does anyone ever acknowledge that they're dancing around
01:49:19.420 the thing that other countries do to have healthier citizens?
01:49:23.860 Billy's like, circadian rhythm, sleep, nutrition.
01:49:27.220 I'm like, does anyone ever just say point blank,
01:49:29.660 there are healthier countries and they actually are doing things
01:49:33.000 that we could copy?
01:49:35.220 Do they ever address that?
01:49:36.800 You mean the keto diets in Denmark?
01:49:38.260 Exactly. I mean, the keto diets in Denmark.
01:49:42.420 Okay. And then secondly, his point about the over-prescription of pharmaceuticals.
01:49:47.560 This is what he's pointing to, right, as the major factor in American illnesses.
01:49:52.120 But remember, it is a lack of access to medical care, a lack of access to medicine that is associated with worse health outcomes.
01:49:59.560 Not too much modern medicine. That's not what the data says.
01:50:02.220 So, the idea that permeates all of this, from vanihari to calumines to zen honeycut, is that a healthy diet and lifestyle circumvent the need for medical care and medicine.
01:50:16.180 So, I don't want to spend too much more time on vaccines because I think the science is so settled there that even appearing to debate it lends credence to the idea that there is still something up for debate.
01:50:26.260 But I do want to talk about GMOs, because GMOs are actually similar to vaccines in the sense that the science is settled about their safety. There is no scientific debate about this, but you would not know it by the way that they are discussed. So please read this from the Genetic Literacy Project.
01:50:46.860 Every major international science body in the world has reviewed multiple independent studies, in some cases numbering in the hundreds, in coming to the consensus conclusion that GMO crops are as safe or safer than conventional or organic foods.
01:51:02.320 Still, the claim that GMOs are, quote, understudied has become a staple of anti-GMO critics, especially activist journalists.
01:51:09.980 In response to what they believed was an information gap, a team of Italian scientists cataloged and analyzed 1,783 studies about the safety and environmental impacts of GMO's foods, a staggering number.
01:51:26.020 The researchers couldn't find a single credible example demonstrating that genetically modified foods pose any harm to humans or animals.
01:51:33.620 The scientific research conducted so far has not detected any significant hazards directly connected with the use of genetically engineered crops, the scientists concluded.
01:51:43.380 Okay. No scientific debate about the safety of genetically modified food.
01:51:47.520 But that's not Honeycutt's independent scientists, wherever her .gov creed backslash website that she goes to.
01:51:55.340 The crazy thing about this, too, is that GMOs are scientifically constructed often to require less water and fewer pesticides.
01:52:03.620 So they allow us to feed our population, like, more reliably.
01:52:08.840 They can also be used to reduce food waste.
01:52:11.440 And so, you know what? 0.92
01:52:12.740 Let's talk to Jillian Michaels again and see what she thinks we should ban.
01:52:17.240 With that said, what would be banned? 0.97
01:52:20.420 Well, let's look at the argument that Vonnie has put front and center with regard to sugar cereal.
01:52:25.740 What if it was just sugar and not high fructose corn syrup from genetically engineered crops that are sprayed with a million different chemicals?
01:52:33.620 What if she could just do that for you with your Froot Loops to make it that much easier for the average American not to have to worry about their toxic load?
01:52:43.120 That's the kind of stuff that people, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Bonnie is trying to facilitate.
01:52:48.000 So it's not about taking your cereal away.
01:52:49.780 It's about making it significantly less poisonous.
01:52:52.780 Wait, what? 0.99
01:52:54.280 Who fucking knows, dude? 0.98
01:52:55.580 The point is like, she's, she's sitting up there being like, yeah, the genetically engineered crops sprayed with a million different. I'm like, even at like the, at like the broadest level. Think about this. Like I did what, 10 days of research on this. This is your entire fucking beat, Jillian Michaels. You are on stage in DC talking your book. Shouldn't you know that genetically modified crops require fewer pesticides? I feel like I'm going fucking crazy. 0.99
01:53:23.320 Okay, I have a question. What do they think that Bobby is going to do?
01:53:30.600 That is a great question. Something that does, I think, raise some alarms about this non-GMO 0.91
01:53:38.200 craze or this GMOs are toxic craze is the labeling in this space. There is a non-GMO project label
01:53:46.620 that is used now, which is actually kind of a misnomer because the foods that this gets put
01:53:52.720 on can still technically be genetically modified, but just less so? I don't know. But the foods are
01:53:58.820 almost always more expensive. Non-GMO marketed foods cost an average of 73% more as of 2015.
01:54:07.320 Wow. When I get the grapes that are the size of my fist, is that a GMO grape?
01:54:12.160 Oh, Caroline, there is not a single apple, banana, stalk of broccoli, or ear of corn in existence
01:54:18.580 today that is not genetically modified. This might be slightly hyperbolic. It's like 90%
01:54:23.560 of the food supply is genetically modified. Again, because it makes food more resistant to
01:54:29.520 pests. You don't have to use as many pesticides. It makes it last longer. This is like a good
01:54:35.360 thing. Also, I just want to remind everyone, we have destroyed so much farmland with bad
01:54:43.060 farming practices over the years. Might I remind everyone of the Dust Bowl? You'll take the food
01:54:48.560 you can fucking get at this point 1.00
01:54:50.260 because the human race has not done a very good job 0.99
01:54:53.120 of creating fertile ground for things to grow. 0.97
01:54:56.020 So you're fucking lucky you've got food right now. 0.97
01:54:58.580 Be a little grateful. 0.98
01:55:00.320 That's kind of what I'm leading up to
01:55:01.880 is like, I had never been,
01:55:05.360 again, I went into this fully prepared to be like,
01:55:09.000 yeah, they're annoying, but their claims are valid 0.96
01:55:11.720 to like, no, the food system is fucking miraculous. 0.79
01:55:15.560 Famines were commonplace until like a hundred years ago. The fact that you can go get mangoes 0.87
01:55:23.540 in January from like any store in your town is a fucking miracle. Okay. 0.99
01:55:29.620 Wait, Katie, have you seen The Wild Robot?
01:55:32.200 No. What is The Wild Robot?
01:55:34.260 Oh my God. You're so uncultured. It's an incredible children's film that came out
01:55:39.980 by either DreamWorks or Pixar.
01:55:42.320 You have to watch it.
01:55:44.060 Anyways, it's set in the future.
01:55:45.700 And all I'm going to say is that
01:55:46.820 they show the future of farming.
01:55:49.040 And it's basically this type of
01:55:50.940 regenerative farming in these big stadiums
01:55:53.620 because that's the future.
01:55:54.700 That's where we're going.
01:55:55.460 Anyways, go on.
01:55:57.360 So this sort of labeling, non-GMO, whatever,
01:56:00.500 because of how much the quote-unquote risks
01:56:03.360 of GMO foods have been trumped up
01:56:05.780 by people like Zen Honeycutt. 1.00
01:56:07.380 Did she change her name? 0.99
01:56:08.880 I have no fucking idea. 0.99
01:56:09.980 I spent as little time on Zen Honeycutt as I could. 0.99
01:56:12.340 I was like, got it, CNN segment, moving on.
01:56:15.760 The sole purpose of these labels is marketing a more expensive product
01:56:19.900 that has no evidence of being healthier.
01:56:22.420 But getting that label does require FDA oversight and regulation to enforce,
01:56:27.820 which means that the FDA is currently bogged down
01:56:31.260 regulating something that is ultimately meaningless.
01:56:34.980 There are studies, like the pesticides thing,
01:56:36.900 like let's touch on that because that also came up a lot.
01:56:39.020 Again, in many ways, like in these kind of rants that they're going on, it's they're kind of like conflating GMOs and pests.
01:56:44.660 It's like these are not the same thing.
01:56:45.760 But there are studies that looked at occupational exposure to pesticides.
01:56:50.700 So people working with pesticides as part of their jobs rather than a consumer who was going to eat a pack of washed raspberries every week.
01:56:58.760 And they suggested like, yeah, you should monitor fertility in populations that work with commercial pesticides as a matter of their job.
01:57:09.020 One famous example of this is DDT.
01:57:12.780 This was an insecticide that has been banned in the United States since the 1970s.
01:57:17.820 But even pesticides are not part of some elite plot to poison the masses.
01:57:24.180 It is the opposite, and it is way more banal.
01:57:27.680 Pesticides are used to make sure the food supply does not get infected with something
01:57:32.800 and, like, cause mass starvation. 1.00
01:57:35.380 None of these people are Irish is all I have to say. 1.00
01:57:39.020 You have to be so fucking myopic to not like vaccines or food. You have to be so uncurious to think that people were better off with earlier food systems and no vaccines. 1.00
01:58:01.240 Like that that is also that's the trad wife fantasy. We have this fantasy where like everyone had a farm and everyone had drank raw milk and everyone had fresh eggs and everyone ate fresh vegetables. Everyone ate kids. That is not what happened. What happened was three of them died. Right. What happened where there were a few farms in each huge community and you were lucky if you had two food groups.
01:58:28.520 The idea that there was Taste the Rainbow, like, Meghan Markle crudité board happening in the 1900s is so dumb. 1.00
01:58:38.240 I wish someone would write a novel about what would happen if one of these trad wives had to, I don't know, go back in time and experience this life for themselves. 1.00
01:58:48.920 Trademark, bitches. 1.00
01:58:51.640 Okay, so this is from a paper that studies the impact of non-GMO marketing on costs. 0.99
01:58:58.520 So as I've already told you, foods that are apparently non-GMO cost 73% more.
01:59:03.740 But what has the impact of technological improvements in the food supply been over time?
01:59:10.880 Technological improvements have increased the overall quality and variety of the U.S. food supply while, at the same time, lowering overall food costs.
01:59:19.060 The share of disposable personal income spent on food at home fell from 21.2% in 1930 to 5.7% in 2012.
01:59:28.060 Wow.
01:59:28.280 There you go. Less than 100 years ago, people spent one in every $5 they earned on food. So it was 5.7% in 2012. As of 2023, it was 11.2% after the recent inflationary spike, but it's still about half as much. And the food is higher quality.
01:59:47.180 Right.
01:59:47.440 The point is, it's totally fair to say more research should be done about the effects of, like, all sorts of elements of modern life on the human body.
01:59:56.120 That is exactly what scientists are already constantly doing. 0.69
02:00:01.300 But to claim with certainty that our food system is toxic or poisonous is, like, honestly just ridiculous. 0.58
02:00:09.560 Yeah.
02:00:10.280 But that's not to say there's nothing wrong with it, right?
02:00:12.580 There are often contrasts. I think we heard a Vani clip where she's talking about like food in the EU, food in America, whatever. Formulations are different. I think much of this framing in these conversations focuses on American corporations exploiting people. And that's actually sort of true, but I think they are suspicious of the wrong things.
02:00:34.980 Are you familiar with Monsanto, Caroline?
02:00:38.140 Mm-mm.
02:00:38.880 Okay, they're like a big food, like, farming giant.
02:00:43.160 Monsanto's farming practices have basically made seed replanting illegal.
02:00:48.220 So farmers have to keep buying more of the Monsanto seeds.
02:00:52.800 Now, the way that they've done this is because the seeds are genetically modified,
02:00:57.060 they claim the seeds are their intellectual property.
02:01:00.180 You can't replant their seeds and sell their food without paying them a royalty.
02:01:04.980 so this means that like one of the most legitimate systemic issues with our food system
02:01:10.100 is not about toxicity or poison it's about private ownership and so in 2013 one farmer
02:01:19.000 took monsanto all the way to the supreme court to fight this and the court ruled in favor of
02:01:23.140 monsanto and like upheld the patent on the genetically modified food and basically said
02:01:27.900 yeah like you if you're gonna sell their product you have to pay royalty all that to say it's not
02:01:31.780 perfect. There's absolutely room for reform, but the things that actually need reform are not at
02:01:37.820 all the things that we are, like, really talking about. Can I pose a theory? Sure. Okay, here's my
02:01:44.400 theory, and you can tell me at the end if we're close or not. Okay. I am thinking about a lot of
02:01:48.980 the work that we've done on this podcast, actually a lot of the work that you have spearheaded in
02:01:52.120 talking about the women of the new right and also in our episode about, like, the men are not all
02:01:58.540 right and how the whole structure that we have is that if you're a man who doesn't get access to the
02:02:03.680 most power then you do at least get access to power over a woman and if you're a woman in the
02:02:07.680 right then you have to find a way to like carve out a space in which you are either decorative or 1.00
02:02:12.860 not i am feeling like these women are just spewing bullshit but they are doing so in an arena where 1.00
02:02:22.060 they can stake claim because the men don't care about it because it is coded as feminine. And so 1.00
02:02:28.340 it's this way for them to get some level of power and legitimacy. And now that they have like a
02:02:34.560 voting block, they matter to good old Bobby and Donald Trump. But they're also in a space where
02:02:39.980 it's probably not going to be overrun by men, whereas someone like Nancy Mace is constantly 1.00
02:02:45.660 getting her little face smashed because she's in the men's space. But food and wellness and
02:02:50.700 taking care of your children is a woman's space. And so these women can all proliferate there 1.00
02:02:55.280 because that's where they're meant to be. And they're tolerated there because, to your point, 0.99
02:03:01.140 it's their sphere of influence. And also, it is really good for the Republican Party if they can
02:03:07.560 superficially gesture at, like, changes that would be made. But as we'll see shortly, nothing that's
02:03:13.060 actually going to impact anything. Yeah. Anyways, that's what I'm thinking. Continue.
02:03:16.480 So we've just been talking about areas where the science is settled, but we're still asking questions as though we don't have evidence. So now what I want to do is call our attention to areas where the science isn't settled, but we are discussing things with certainty anyway. So, Caroline, do you know who Marty Macquarie is?
02:03:37.860 No.
02:03:38.960 He is a doctor who has just been nominated by Trump to lead the FDA.
02:03:45.060 So at least we're like putting an actual doctor in charge of something.
02:03:47.760 He actually wrote a book about the U.S. health care system that I read a couple years ago called The Price We Pay that I thought was pretty good.
02:03:54.580 We're going to watch a couple clips of him being interviewed by another doctor.
02:04:00.740 You're touching on a very important topic, and that is what's the right balance?
02:04:04.740 Right.
02:04:05.160 Because we live in a real world.
02:04:06.560 We know microplastics are bad, they have hormonal disruptions, but how do you avoid it, right? You can do your best.
02:04:12.040 Of course, yeah. 1.00
02:04:13.240 Childbirth is a good example. We sort of swung as a profession to the over-medicalization of ordinary life, and then people are swinging back to delivering babies in the woods with nobody, and that's dangerous.
02:04:25.460 So there's a balance with all of this. And with school lunch programs, if you think about the big food, big ag in their lobbies, you might think, these are evil companies.
02:04:35.920 trying to poison us. But I actually see the best in people. We have good people that went into
02:04:42.500 those industries. And those industries after World War II were asked to address food insecurity,
02:04:47.220 to maximize food production and address hunger. And they did that. And an unintended consequence
02:04:54.260 of all the GMO and pesticides and added food ingredients that the food scientists engineered
02:05:02.760 to be addictive. So a kid finishes eating the school lunch, and they're kind of full, but it's
02:05:09.540 kind of queasy full. They don't really feel full. And so their hunger level is designed to increase
02:05:15.900 with the food additives. And so they want to keep eating. And we never saw this before. We don't see
02:05:20.700 it with any other species in the animal kingdom. You didn't see it before just the current
02:05:25.220 generation. Try overeating broccoli. It's like impossible. And so we've got to look and say,
02:05:31.840 what are some common sense things we can do? California just banned seven food chemicals
02:05:37.140 that have been implicated in attention deficit disorder, hormonal disruption,
02:05:42.380 genetic mutations. And so there are some things we need to do. And a lot of it's just educating
02:05:47.720 people. You don't need a lot of these food ingredients. Okay. So that doesn't sound
02:05:53.180 overly inflammatory. He's not claiming there's a cabal of elites trying to poison everybody.
02:05:59.640 He's conceding that, like, oh, well, the people who work in food science are well-intentioned.
02:06:04.260 They've just—the pendulum has just swung too far, right?
02:06:07.260 But he's still talking about GMOs and pesticides without making any real claims about what those things supposedly do.
02:06:17.620 Also, there's a big difference between a bag of chips and GMOs, the correlation he's making.
02:06:22.880 He's talking about, like, GMOs, and then he's referencing something which is real, which is, like, these chips that are designed to make you eat more.
02:06:30.160 Like, that is, it's such a quick jump, and I feel like I have gone down that rabbit hole before of thinking that all these things, and then they use the one example of something that is very processed, that probably should be regulated, or that people should have a better understanding of.
02:06:44.040 But then you use that as a reference point for everything else.
02:06:48.000 I'm sure this Johns Hopkins doctor knows you can't not have pesticides in a food system.
02:06:55.540 Like, that's not something that, and to the extent that you can, it's because you've genetically modified crops do not need to be sprayed with them.
02:07:01.860 So anyway, we're going to watch a little bit more now.
02:07:04.400 It may be the cumulative burden of all of these things going down our GI system that's increasing inflammation.
02:07:12.780 When chemicals go down the GI tract, things that do not appear in nature, like vegetable oil and
02:07:20.580 seed oil derivatives, these are chemicals. They sound healthy, but they're not. Microplastics,
02:07:26.060 toxins, arsenic, ultra-processed foods, it may be the cumulative burden of all those things that is
02:07:32.080 causing some of this. So we want to give people good guidance. And so here's something that I
02:07:37.080 think is a good way to think of it for people who are listening. You want to think about your gut
02:07:40.840 health. It may not be, say, the GMO food itself. Again, literally the entire food supply is GMO,
02:07:47.380 like everything. That is that toxic and poison. But why are these foods genetically modified in
02:07:54.100 the first place? Well, they found out after using Agent Orange in the war that it kills a lot of
02:08:00.380 stuff, including insects. And so they started using it as a pesticide to get rid of the insects
02:08:05.960 in crops, and they found it kills the crops and the pesticides. So then they thought,
02:08:11.100 let's genetically modify the crops to be Roundup ready so it can handle the pesticides.
02:08:17.360 And then we eat these foods coated with all these pesticides. The average strawberry has
02:08:21.620 been sprayed over a dozen times with 7.8 different pesticides. One sample of school lunches in the
02:08:28.060 DC area found that a school lunch has up to 38 detectable pesticides. It's showing up in the
02:08:35.220 urine now when tested in children shows up in the umbilical cord of moms so these pesticides
02:08:41.760 have been added but the gi tract is not roundup ready humans are not roundup ready so what may
02:08:48.860 be happening is the pesticide itself may not be poisoning you it may be altering the microbiome
02:08:55.520 the lining of the gi tract of millions of different bacteria that normally live in a balance
02:09:00.760 But when you throw all this stuff down, it's changing that balance and you get overgrowth of certain bacteria.
02:09:09.460 And we know those bacteria are involved in digestion.
02:09:12.440 It's a beautiful thing.
02:09:13.460 It's normal.
02:09:14.160 It's natural.
02:09:15.280 Those millions of different bacteria train the immune system.
02:09:19.760 Some make serotonin involved in mood and mental health.
02:09:23.580 Some produce GLP-1, the active ingredient in ozempic in low doses.
02:09:27.780 it's this incredible organ system called the microbiome. And so we've got to think about our
02:09:34.240 gut health. So it may not be the GMO food itself. Sure. But think about what those pesticides are
02:09:39.800 doing. Yeah. So the interviewer basically presses him and is kind of like, yeah, but so people 0.66
02:09:45.920 shouldn't eat strawberries. What do you really want people to know? But I think what's really
02:09:49.740 notable about that little section is that if you notice, he's talking about all these different
02:09:55.620 factors. And he's saying, it could be this. It might be this. It's possible that this is
02:10:02.840 happening. He's emphasizing that they don't actually know. And the interviewer, again,
02:10:10.040 another doctor, kind of keeps pressing him on this. And when pressed, this is what happens.
02:10:17.800 And you don't think obesity can be partially related to that?
02:10:20.240 I think it is. And so the truth is, if I'm being really honest, I don't know. I don't.
02:10:24.940 But I'm looking epidemiologically at these massive trends, one living generation, autoimmunity skyrocketing, infertility skyrocketing, obesity skyrocketing, diabetes skyrocketing, autism skyrocketing.
02:10:38.600 What's happening?
02:10:39.400 We're altering the microbiome in ways we don't appreciate or don't recognize.
02:10:44.660 Sometimes when we test individual things, you'll see these really concerning trends
02:10:49.740 like pesticides, glyphosate, having a precursor to leukemia.
02:10:56.240 My dad's a hematologist.
02:10:57.440 He can tell you more.
02:10:58.460 Okay.
02:10:58.880 He admits he doesn't know.
02:11:00.660 And then he says, I'm seeing all these other trends skyrocket.
02:11:05.460 He's doing this with his hand, right?
02:11:06.660 And I'm drawing a conclusion that it must be our food system. Nay, it must be the gut microbiome.
02:11:17.720 Can I also just ring my fucking bell, which is, how long have we been testing for these things? How long have we been measuring infertility in women? 0.99
02:11:26.360 Oh, I'm sorry. Is infertility skyrocketing according to what? Your 30 fucking years of
02:11:34.680 self-reported data? Like, shut the fuck up. Oh, we're going to get there. We're going to 1.00
02:11:41.740 fucking get there, Caroline. A lot of what you'll find if you watch enough of these interviews is 0.98
02:11:47.160 just correlation being conflated with causation over and over again. I will echo the fact that
02:11:52.720 we don't know. That's kind of the bottom line. But the world became a radically different place
02:12:00.040 over the period that he is talking about. The invention of the fucking smartphone, 0.99
02:12:04.520 social media as a category. There are so many elements of life today that are different than 0.99
02:12:09.800 they were even just 20 years ago. Greenhouse gosses. To be so confident. Greenhouse gosses.
02:12:18.360 to be so confident that, well, these elements have changed or like, well, chemicals are a thing.
02:12:26.420 And so like, it must be what ultra processed foods are doing to our gut microbiomes. It's like,
02:12:32.040 brother, you're going to have to cite some evidence. The other thing that I wanted to call
02:12:35.880 out is based on what we know about what influences health outcomes. Another thing that feels like a
02:12:43.320 pretty fucking massive elephant in the room in this conversation is income inequality.
02:12:50.460 Do you know what else characterizes the time periods you're talking about? 0.96
02:12:54.780 Widespread work requirements for welfare, stagnant low and middle income pay, the costs
02:13:02.600 of health care, housing, and education, what we know are the three biggest factors in health
02:13:10.540 outcomes rising faster than inflation. None of these people are even remotely interested
02:13:17.580 in discussing one of the things that we know for certain impacts health, which is poverty.
02:13:26.000 Over any 10-year span, 40% of Americans will spend at least one year under the poverty line.
02:13:32.920 40 percent. Do we not think that the stress of housing and food insecurity might play a role here
02:13:41.120 that is more meaningful than microplastics? Or even just being like, make healthy food
02:13:48.700 cheaper. I think what it is is Americans are time poor. Yeah. They're spread so thin that like,
02:13:55.500 they don't have the time and energy to prepare fresh food. That's a great distinction. We don't
02:14:01.200 even have paid sick days in America, let alone universal healthcare. People routinely go to work
02:14:05.680 sick because you can still be fired for getting sick and missing work in this country. They are
02:14:10.640 obsessed with talking about the health of children, but they never mention the fact that the largest
02:14:15.900 group of poor people in America are kids. It is not that there are pesticides on the strawberries
02:14:22.720 or like these parents are not buying adequately organic food. It's that for that group, their
02:14:30.160 single mom probably works multiple part-time jobs. They live in a food desert and they will
02:14:35.000 probably experience at least one destabilizing eviction by age 15. They're probably under a
02:14:40.360 chronic state of stress. And I'm sorry, Vani Hari, but food dye is not in the top 100 issues
02:14:46.820 facing the majority of children in America. Right. The seed oil conversation is such a
02:14:53.140 fucking racket. Dude, can't be bothered. We're what, two and a half hours in? I'm like, yeah, 1.00
02:14:58.660 Yeah, we'll skip seed oils. We'll skip that one.
02:15:02.120 The other thing is, like, microplastics keep coming up.
02:15:04.480 I will say I actually think this is a legitimate health and environmental concern
02:15:09.440 and, like, has been for a long time, the fact that there is just so much plastic on Earth
02:15:13.620 and it, like, doesn't degrade.
02:15:15.300 Less than 10% of all plastic has ever been recycled.
02:15:17.740 But microplastics would force them to have a conversation about climate change,
02:15:21.580 and they're not going to do that.
02:15:22.060 Which we're not going to do, right? 1.00
02:15:23.300 Right, fuck that. 0.98
02:15:23.900 The fact that I am the type of person who actively worries about microplastics kind of reveals the underlying point that I'm trying to make, which is this is largely the health concern that you have if you have no other real problems. 0.99
02:15:37.780 That's not to say it's not a real issue that globally we should concern ourselves with, and researchers are working on this, but we are lacking such basic, basic protection for tens of millions of people in this country, and addressing those things would do substantially more to improve health than these little tweaks at the margins that are maybe sort of supported by science, maybe, but we don't really know.
02:16:03.060 Well, and I'm sure we're going to get into this, but also when I'm watching all these interviews, it is not immediately clear to me that they have any actions that they want to take. Like, it really feels like a speaking tour of just beyond selling their own supplements. I have a very hard time hearing what any, like, even this guy being like, well, education. I'm like, is that your best answer? Education? In what way? How are you going to disperse it through the public school system? Aren't we currently taking a crowbar to the Department of Education?
02:16:33.060 Like, how the fuck? 0.99
02:16:34.220 We don't even have sex education. 1.00
02:16:36.020 You think people are going to find out about your microbiome shit? 1.00
02:16:38.840 I don't think so. 0.99
02:16:41.680 So we're going to spend a little bit of time digging into that one comment he made about infertility skyrocketing. 0.98
02:16:48.280 Because what you'll find if you spend a lot of time watching shit from, like, wellness influencers is this claim. 0.99
02:16:54.580 People are becoming infertile because of the poison, the toxic, whatever. 0.98
02:16:57.960 Another thing that you might recall from the early pandemic era was confusion and misinformation about the COVID vaccine putting women at risk of infertility.
02:17:06.620 Do you remember this?
02:17:07.360 Yeah. Misinformation, disinformation, and conspiracy theories about vaccines are key drivers of vaccine hesitancy.
02:17:15.780 A repeated false claim about COVID-19 vaccines is that the vaccines cause female infertility.
02:17:21.060 Dating back decades, various conspiracy theories have linked vaccination programs with infertility, and thus harmed vaccination programs in Africa, Asia, and Central America, particularly against polio and tetanus.
02:17:34.740 After distribution of COVID-19 vaccines began in December 2020, almost immediately there arose conspiracy theories claiming that these vaccines cause menstrual irregularities, miscarriages, and infertility, promoted by noted anti-vaccine activists Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Andrew Wakefield, among others.
02:17:54.380 Of course.
02:17:54.720 You're Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, everybody. 0.99
02:17:59.180 Oh my fucking God. 1.00
02:18:00.980 This blew my fucking mind. 1.00
02:18:02.120 A 2021 study found that between June and July 2021, 41% of people surveyed believed that COVID-19 vaccines could negatively impact reproductive health or fertility. 0.99
02:18:14.480 That is how widespread that claim had become.
02:18:18.640 There is not only no evidence of this, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary, okay?
02:18:25.000 Here's what was interesting about their findings.
02:18:29.180 We identified that urban residents, married individuals, those born outside the U.S., those with health insurance, and people with higher education and income greater than $100,000 felt that the vaccine would affect fertility more than their counterparts did. Wait, what?
02:18:46.740 That is very unusual for, like, higher income, more educated people.
02:18:52.700 That's so weird. I wouldn't be surprised at all if black and brown communities were very skeptical of the vaccine, given like the type of medical experimentation that was done on them.
02:19:03.000 Right. 1.00
02:19:03.320 But the idea of some rich fucking Debbie with her kids in private school being like, they're after me with the vaccine. I'm like, are they? I don't know. 0.99
02:19:10.820 So that begs the question, Caro, is infertility on the rise? Is it skyrocketing?
02:19:17.620 according to the cdc infertility in women is defined as a lack of pregnancy in the 12 months
02:19:28.280 before the survey despite having unprotected vaginal intercourse in each of those months
02:19:34.620 with the same husband or cohabiting partner so is this on the rise or not i'm thinking that
02:19:41.020 it is something to do with either like self-reported data or maybe that they're just
02:19:45.960 reporting children not being born and they're assuming that women would be infertile if not 1.00
02:19:51.280 to want children the only reason women wouldn't want to have children would be if they're fucking 0.99
02:19:55.940 infertile am i correct correct they're basically looking at the birth rate and they're being like 1.00
02:20:01.500 go fuck yourselves okay so that's that's what's happening you have people looking at birth 1.00
02:20:06.140 and then deducing that because people are having fewer children now that it's because women are 1.00
02:20:12.640 less fertile. But... That's incredible. People are, A, choosing to have fewer children. We know
02:20:19.080 this. People are also just waiting longer to have children. And one of the most predictive elements
02:20:26.720 of how hard it's going to be for you to get pregnant is how old you are. Like, are you 19
02:20:32.260 or are you 39, right, when you're trying to have your first kid? It makes a fucking difference. 1.00
02:20:36.800 So the CDC study conducted 21,000 interviews between 2015 and 2019 to determine whether infertility was actually on the rise, and they found it was not. 0.98
02:20:49.060 Quote, both infertility and impaired fecundity, which is basically like difficulty getting pregnant, were associated with age for women after adjusting for other factors.
02:20:59.860 They have been measuring this since 1973, and they found that difficulty getting or carrying a pregnancy to term has remained relatively stable, with no significant increase in prevalence from 1973 until now.
02:21:13.540 I'm just imagining, like, fuck the CDC, some independent scientist interviewing all these women and being like, why don't you have kids yet? And one woman being like, well, you know, I was just really passionate about it. He's like, infertile. And then he goes up to the next one. And he's like, why don't you have kids yet? 0.59
02:21:28.060 And she's like, well, I have one, but I don't want any more. 0.97
02:21:29.920 He's like, infertile. 0.99
02:21:31.880 Go up to the next one. 1.00
02:21:32.880 She's like, well, my husband and I want to travel. 1.00
02:21:34.420 He's like, no, you're fucking infertile, bitch. 1.00
02:21:37.180 Just write them all down as infertile. 1.00
02:21:39.100 It's just Jessica Reed Krause and the ski mask. 0.99
02:21:43.260 Of course, they would deem women who want to do anything other than have children as 1.00
02:21:48.320 fucking infertile because God forbid we're fertile and don't use it. 0.99
02:21:52.440 That is all to say, if there are more clinical cases of people needing a little bit of help 0.99
02:21:57.320 getting pregnant today, the most likely explanation is average age at first birth being
02:22:02.840 higher. That factor alone is going to impact your outcomes a hell of a lot more than whether or not
02:22:08.340 you're using plastic Tupperware. Right. I feel like the part two of Make America Healthy Again
02:22:13.360 is how these industries scam pregnant or young mothers. Like, oh. With supplements? I'm so happy 0.78
02:22:21.240 You mentioned that.
02:22:23.940 Amazing.
02:22:24.920 So unlike the pharmaceutical industry, we know the supplement industry is pretty unregulated by comparison.
02:22:30.920 But that lack of research does not stop supplement companies from making claims they can't support.
02:22:36.680 In 2019, a health and science watchdog group petitioned federal regulators to take enforcement action
02:22:43.640 against 27 supplement manufacturers who were selling products marketed as helping women
02:22:49.360 detox so they could become pregnant or boost fertility, but for which there is no scientific
02:22:54.880 evidence of efficacy. I'm going to have you read a quick little blurb.
02:23:01.020 It's like the EV birth control detox. Okay. Dietary supplements can be legally sold without
02:23:07.640 proof of safety or efficacy under the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act.
02:23:13.120 I would love to know the story behind that act. But the law allows manufacturers to make only
02:23:17.960 general health claims, such as that a supplement, quote, boosts energy or improves well-being.
02:23:23.660 They are prohibited from claiming a product helps a specific medical condition unless they submit
02:23:29.140 results from clinical trials showing such a benefit. None of the fertility supplement makers
02:23:33.840 have done so. Of course. Of course. So there was one case in which the supplement maker did
02:23:39.460 cite a clinical trial. They sold eight different fertility supplements. And the clinical trial
02:23:46.700 that they cited claimed that 12 of the 16 formerly infertile women who took the active ingredient
02:23:54.540 that was in their product conceived after taking that active ingredient. That sounds pretty good,
02:24:00.620 right? It's a compound in folic acid. But the trial was from 1942, and it studied men.
02:24:08.120 what not women it was like men were taking the active ingredient so like oh my god there's just 0.98
02:24:14.400 a lot of bullshit in this space and like there's like very little regulatory oversight which is a 0.95
02:24:20.620 problem but when it comes to risks legitimate risks of increased infertility we should probably 0.98
02:24:26.700 talk about who is actually at risk so per johns hopkins aka the institution that employs
02:24:31.800 Marty Macri, who is very concerned about infertility skyrocketing.
02:24:39.160 During recent decades, the rate of infertility among women in the United States has remained
02:24:44.120 largely the same, according to researchers at Johns Hopkins Medicine. Their new analysis of
02:24:49.240 data, collected from 1995 and 2019 and published June 14th in the journal Fertility and Sterility, 0.97
02:24:56.260 found that infertility is more common among women who are older, who are non-Hispanic Black,
02:25:01.040 and who have less income or education and women without access to sexual and reproductive health
02:25:05.900 services. Interesting. So you mean to tell me that it's a lack of income, education and access
02:25:12.720 to medical care that's associated with infertility? Oh my God, these people. But are you sure it's not
02:25:19.220 the Froot Loops? Are we like really sure it's not the cereal? I appreciate Vani Hari's little
02:25:27.160 story of going to the library and reading books and, like, fuck Google. But sometimes with this 0.99
02:25:33.180 project, I'm like, wow, we did all this research in, like, two weeks, and it's a big bummer that
02:25:38.960 these people have careers on this and just totally bypass this information. I don't want to diminish
02:25:46.000 the work that we do, and I'm proud of the work that we do, but this is not rocket science. This
02:25:51.500 This is information that can be found. 0.76
02:25:54.260 It is on the first page of Google when you look up, like, are women infertile now? 0.99
02:26:00.600 I say that not because these grifters are ever going to change their grift, but so that people can understand just how grifty they are. 0.98
02:26:08.220 This is not something that's hard to figure out.
02:26:11.900 This is like willful misunderstanding of all this information.
02:26:15.680 Part of what I really want to get across today is that a lot of this stuff is just very complicated.
02:26:20.500 And there's a lot of confidence with which these assertions by the potential new leader of the FDA are, like, making these claims on podcasts that get millions of views about infertility skyrocketing.
02:26:34.040 The confidence with which these things are stated and then, like, in the same sentence related to, like, pesticides on strawberries and, like, school lunches, it just creates this real environment of fear and distrust.
02:26:49.160 But a lot of these things are being actively studied, and in some cases, they don't really know yet. For example, environmental toxins. It's not a stretch to think exposure to pollution would impact human fertility, but the research that does exist, like there's a study that I found that tried to look at the outcomes of IVF for a thousand cycles that was focused on air pollution and air quality.
02:27:16.420 And they found, quote, particulate matter is a common air pollutant produced by diesel-powered vehicles, power plants, and other industrial facilities, as well as wildfire smoke.
02:27:29.920 And the EPA this year lowered the threshold at which it takes action to reduce levels because research has shown the substance more toxic than previously thought.
02:27:40.020 So, like, these agencies are actively studying these things and trying to figure out what levels are safe and what aren't.
02:27:48.140 But what was so fascinating about this study is that the results themselves were kind of conflicted.
02:27:54.100 It found that environmental pollution, this particulate matter and organic carbon, negatively impacted fertility outcomes during IVF procedures.
02:28:02.380 But some pollutants, like nitrogen dioxide, actually seemed to have a positive association with fertilization and usable embryos.
02:28:12.040 There were some air pollutants that actually led to higher rates of fertilization.
02:28:16.940 The point is, more research is being done because we don't understand why some pollution is quote-unquote good and other is having a bad impact.
02:28:24.620 But every time we talk about these things, it's being discussed with so much certainty that you would never know that, like, the body of data is still open to so much inconclusivity, basically.
02:28:37.240 Well, and the really brilliant self-reinforcing mechanism of these conspiracy theories is that you get reinforced to the idea that things are simple.
02:28:45.520 Like, it's not that confusing. 0.99
02:28:47.360 These people are screwed. 0.99
02:28:48.480 Common sense. 0.99
02:28:48.700 We need to go back to common sense, non-scary words, simple food lists.
02:28:53.180 And so if you read something like that, that says, oh, well, we don't know, or that gives conflicting information, I can see someone almost having a gotcha of like, oh, see, like they have conflicting information or like, oh, they're trying to obscure information because it's so confusing. And it's like, no, that's what things look like when you're learning about them. That's actually how scientists function.
02:29:15.000 And I'm actually going to pull it back to climate change again because I think that we are a generation and the generation, I guess, below and above us have both moved through this time period where we have so thoroughly fucked our environment that we are now living through a kind of bizarre scientific phenomenon in which virtually 100% of scientists are in agreement.
02:29:33.940 And that's actually not like common. That's not necessarily like indicative that science is happening correctly. It just means that we have taken so long that scientists started to raise the alarm in like the 50s and 60s and 70s. And so now we are reading these data and it's on the news, it's on CNN that it's 100% of scientists.
02:29:54.240 And I think that that contributes to this misunderstanding of how science functions, where it's like, no, that should be a sign that we have thoroughly screwed the pooch.
02:30:03.220 We should be much more comfortable with the idea of conflicting information in science, because that means that we are still learning about something.
02:30:10.520 Yeah. Okay. So, Carol, let's talk about what RFK Jr. is actually supposedly going to do to address all of these wide-ranging concerns.
02:30:23.680 We've talked about regulatory capture, areas that are not adequately regulated.
02:30:28.980 We've talked about supposedly the need for more research to be done, right?
02:30:32.800 Cali Means is just asking questions.
02:30:34.580 He's just saying we want to subject these things to science.
02:30:38.060 So it's not entirely clear yet what the plans are, but there is a multinational law firm
02:30:46.860 that I found called Scadden, which basically released this report with the intent of guiding
02:30:53.080 their clients. I'm like, hey, here's what you should prepare for. Here's what we think is most
02:30:58.220 likely coming based on all the public information available about the RFK agenda. As the secretary
02:31:06.740 of the Department of Health and Human Services, RFK oversees 13 agencies, the FDA, the Food and
02:31:13.060 Drug Administration, which again has just been nominated this doctor that we just listened to,
02:31:16.860 Marty Macri, Medicare, Medicaid, the CDC, the NIH, and more. A lot of the medical research and
02:31:26.040 science that is being done in this country to fund these discoveries and to ask these questions
02:31:31.580 that might not have any immediate commercial value. It is very important that something like
02:31:37.540 the NIH exists because they are investing money in questions that Pfizer or GlaxoSmithKline or
02:31:44.800 these other companies that have to seek profits for shareholders aren't really incentivized to
02:31:49.300 worry about because that's not their job, right? So Skadden reports that these are the things that
02:31:54.160 we should expect to see based on the information available. The first is, quote, cuts to grant
02:32:00.580 making to the National Institute of Health. Okay. On February 7th, the NIH announced its intention
02:32:08.460 to sharply reduce its funding of indirect costs incurred by grant recipients to 15 percent,
02:32:15.680 down from previous levels of 50 percent or more.
02:32:18.440 Says while a federal court has since issued a temporary restraining order blocking implementation,
02:32:24.560 it's clear that changes to NIH funding and staffing are on the agenda for Secretary Kennedy
02:32:30.100 and the Trump administration.
02:32:31.840 If implemented, this is likely to impact both public and private sector research and development
02:32:37.320 for new drugs, which often come out of partnerships with NIH as well as clinical trials,
02:32:42.880 which are often conducted at NIH-funded sites.
02:32:46.080 Of course.
02:32:46.860 In other words, you have people saying, oh, we just want to subject these things to science.
02:32:50.740 We just want more research to be done, and we're cutting funding for research institutions.
02:32:55.020 But they, I mean, they like doing their own research anyway, so it's fine.
02:32:57.800 I was going to say, that's just clearing the runway.
02:33:00.520 The most likely outcome in the system we have now is that it's going to lead to a higher
02:33:05.380 dependency on external funding sources from private and philanthropic groups, which, as we
02:33:11.420 know, can lead to a lot of conflicts of interest if a group funding research is interested in
02:33:16.860 reaching a specific outcome or a specific conclusion with that research. And because the NIH funds
02:33:22.760 clinical trial support, less funding probably means fewer clinical trials, delayed trials,
02:33:28.400 canceled trials. It slows drug testing. It slows that sort of innovation. But, like, we know that
02:33:33.860 they don't really seem to think drugs are necessary since only toxic, unfit, unhealthy,
02:33:37.660 impure people need them anyway. So I guess that's fine. So like I said, a lot of the issues that
02:33:44.240 they seem to care about pertain to regulatory capture. So another outcome that Skadden says
02:33:50.520 to expect is, quote, fewer guidances and regulations. On January 31st, Trump issued,
02:33:58.020 quote, the unleashing prosperity through deregulation executive order, which dictates
02:34:04.760 that, quote, whenever an executive department or agency publicly proposes for notice and comment
02:34:11.020 on or otherwise promulgates a new regulation, it shall identify at least 10 existing regulations
02:34:18.020 to be repealed. I don't understand. Are these people just like genuinely this obtuse? What do
02:34:24.840 they think is going to happen. Yeah, they're going to go to Battle Creek, Michigan, and they're
02:34:28.760 going to deliver. So, yep, let's see. A lot of the food-related stuff, pretty much all of it
02:34:36.360 emphasizes consumer choice. The first is nutrition labeling reform. So, at the end of the Biden
02:34:43.020 administration, the FDA introduced a proposed rule on front-of-pack nutrition labeling with the stated
02:34:49.760 goal of helping consumers make healthier food choices. This is like Biden-era stuff. That rule
02:34:55.060 is probably going to be finalized under Kennedy. The second is coordination with other agencies to
02:35:01.000 limit consumption of ultra-processed foods. And so by that, they mean, quote, the Women, Infants,
02:35:07.300 and Children, that's WIC program, and Supplemental Nutrition Assistance program, that's SNAP,
02:35:12.000 both administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the USDA, provides access to food
02:35:18.660 for people living under federal poverty limits, and only certain foods are eligible for purchase
02:35:24.600 using WIC and SNAP. They're expecting to be a coordinated effort between the USDA and the FDA
02:35:30.020 that would limit the money that can be spent on, like, ultra-processed foods. Like, they're going
02:35:35.300 to try to take that stuff off of the SNAP and WIC eligibility. Right. As one does. So I have to tell
02:35:41.820 you, this really bothers me. It's basically saying the answer is policing what poor people eat.
02:35:46.740 Poor people can't be trusted to make decisions for themselves. We will help them by obstructing their access to any food that we deem ultra-processed. A lot of the reason that that food is, like, popular is because it's very calorically dense. Like, you can get a lot of calories for less money, and it's very fast. It's quick. 0.97
02:36:08.340 Like, one of the things that the population on SNAP and WIC lack a lot of times is time because they're spread thin effectively. 0.99
02:36:16.640 So it's just paternalistic as fuck.
02:36:18.720 I feel like this administration is so focused on punishing and, like, the stick rather than the carrot that I have to imagine that it would be like, anyone who ends up using this is going to get their benefits rescinded. 0.98
02:36:33.000 it's hard for me to imagine that this would ever be effectively carried out like well no one can 1.00
02:36:38.640 buy lay's chips anymore and it's much easier for me to imagine that a bunch of these maha mommies 1.00
02:36:44.440 would go to congress and be like we're wasting money on snap it's not helping people be healthy 1.00
02:36:49.460 and then they just fucking cut the program altogether it just indicates that like there's 0.58
02:36:53.500 a real interest in again policing behavior totally it's not like they're gonna go to lay's 0.96
02:36:58.680 and be like, you have to change the formula.
02:37:01.680 They're just saying, 0.97
02:37:02.700 we're not going to let poor people
02:37:04.120 use their supplemental nutrition.
02:37:06.920 And frankly, leis can afford lobbyists.
02:37:09.640 Poor people can't.
02:37:10.760 Yeah, as I was digging in for this episode,
02:37:13.340 something that I found
02:37:14.440 is there's actually quite a bit
02:37:16.400 of experimental evidence
02:37:17.900 that leads us to believe
02:37:20.640 that providing affordable, stable housing
02:37:23.780 markedly improved health outcomes
02:37:27.140 for children and adults.
02:37:28.680 The amount of profound stress that someone in poverty is under on a daily basis
02:37:34.960 is, like, so much worse for their outcomes and whether or not they are eating chips.
02:37:42.860 Right.
02:37:43.280 It's almost insulting to be like, ah, yeah, there we go.
02:37:46.800 That'll fix it.
02:37:47.700 That'll fix it.
02:37:48.400 No more cherry Coke.
02:37:50.160 It makes me so angry.
02:37:51.660 When I think about it, though, it's pretty brilliant because Democrats can't fight it
02:37:56.640 because to fight it you would have to acknowledge the systems that are actually making people sick
02:38:01.300 and democrats don't want to acknowledge those systems either yeah not in any truly like um
02:38:06.720 pragmatic or like actual break this apart and make it something better way it's almost like
02:38:12.480 i think of like when you learn about these natural protective measures that an animal or a plant will
02:38:17.900 have that like can keep anyone from getting into it like all these little spikes the make america 0.86
02:38:22.600 healthy again thing has all these spikes because it's so fucking neoliberal it's all defined by
02:38:28.320 individualism and anyone who wants to argue with it in any sort of logical way has to acknowledge 0.74
02:38:34.160 community when it comes to vaccines and systemic support it's such an indication of how much that
02:38:41.120 has broken apart how there's just like no we have no response to it yeah a couple other things that
02:38:47.700 they're going to do, they want to revamp the, quote, generally recognized as safe process.
02:38:53.780 It says Secretary Kennedy has repeatedly stated he would like to limit food additives and chemicals
02:38:59.820 in ultra-processed food. This is an area where he might be looking to tighten the standards
02:39:06.060 and taking more additives into the pre-market review process would create more oversight for
02:39:12.520 new food additives. I said, we also may see FDA banning more additives as it did with red dye
02:39:17.700 number three at the end of the Biden administration. I don't think this one is ultimately bad,
02:39:23.440 but it was sort of, I don't know, as I was reading it, I was sort of like, okay, who is this for?
02:39:27.920 Like, I kind of feel like we're treating a gunshot wound with a haircut. And it's like,
02:39:32.280 yeah, I mean, I'm happy about the haircut, but maybe we should do something about the gunshot
02:39:36.860 Donch the bleeding.
02:39:37.920 Wound.
02:39:39.020 I think that it'll be interesting to see how this coincides with all of the, like, deregulation that they're indicating they would like to do.
02:39:49.180 I don't know.
02:39:49.640 We'll see what happens.
02:39:50.660 They want to create a single food safety agency, basically consolidating the FDA and FSIS inspectors, which is like another, I think, a branch of the USDA.
02:40:02.040 Kind of a win that they do want a government agency.
02:40:05.320 I don't take that for granted.
02:40:06.740 Well, I guess they're not cutting it. Well, I guess they're cutting one part of one.
02:40:09.500 They're cutting one into the other one agency.
02:40:12.100 It sounds like there are some food safety experts who are OK with this, who are like, yeah, a consolidated organization would be good.
02:40:18.960 So, like, I don't know. We'll see. I don't have high hopes.
02:40:22.900 And then finally, increasing access to raw milk.
02:40:26.560 Of course.
02:40:27.020 Currently, the FDA does not enforce laws of interstate commerce in raw milk, but states vary in their treatment of it.
02:40:34.500 And so this is just saying that they think it's unlikely that the FDA would issue regulations allowing for interstate commerce and raw milk, but it is something that Kennedy has indicated he will pursue, even when they're pointing to things that could be helpful or at the very least not actively harmful.
02:40:52.460 they are constantly talking about kids being hurt by these systems but uh none of what they want to
02:40:58.760 do is going to improve anything in a meaningful way for the groups who are actually hurt by the
02:41:03.480 failures of the systems that they're talking about it's so funny because the fringe proximity i have
02:41:09.420 to this movement i do see it pretty regularly i feel like we all know someone at this point 0.97
02:41:15.740 who's into this shit and the adoration for kennedy is what like they think he's gonna 0.98
02:41:23.280 fucking save the world and it's so funny that his plan is like i don't know taking on a few additives 0.99
02:41:30.320 and like mashing two agencies together i'm like yeah okay so he's not stopping pharmaceutical 0.98
02:41:35.200 companies he is certainly not delivering living produce to everyone we aren't going back in time
02:41:42.320 to when everyone had a farm, 1.00
02:41:44.060 a few more idiots are going to drink raw milk. 1.00
02:41:46.580 Congrats, guys. 1.00
02:41:47.980 Welcome to Valhalla.
02:41:49.320 We made it.
02:41:50.140 Maha.
02:41:51.220 Maha.
02:41:52.180 We made America healthy again.
02:41:55.640 Which, of course, implies there was a time
02:41:57.940 when everyone in America was healthy.
02:41:59.900 Welcome to the Amazon warehouse.
02:42:01.420 Here's your raw milk.
02:42:02.440 Now you get to work 80 hours a week.
02:42:06.540 So, to conclude,
02:42:08.280 in thinking about the conspiracy theme today,
02:42:10.560 I was like, what is the most likely explanation for the role this serves?
02:42:15.620 Occam's razor, right?
02:42:16.820 Like, what is the simplest explanation for this?
02:42:19.340 Not that there is some grand cover-upper scheme,
02:42:22.760 but that the role this plays is very simple.
02:42:26.000 It's what helped them win an election.
02:42:28.220 That is the role it played.
02:42:29.780 That became really obvious to me watching Alex Clark,
02:42:34.120 another Turning Point USA influencer on Charlie Kirk's show.
02:42:38.540 So we're going to watch this clip to close today because she hits every point. 0.99
02:42:44.760 Turning Point USA influencers sure are trained well.
02:42:47.880 It's like she studied at the Brittany Martinez Hugo Boom School of Misinformation. 0.75
02:42:52.160 School for Clowns. 0.89
02:42:53.840 All right, here we go.
02:42:55.660 Maybe we won't watch the entire thing because it's 10 minutes, but we're going to watch a chunk of it.
02:43:00.880 Take me in, baby.
02:43:01.620 We have a very special guest who is going viral, and I'm very happy about that.
02:43:07.440 Alex Clark?
02:43:08.180 hello hello what a whirlwind of a week are you sleeping at all i've barely slept barely slept
02:43:14.280 i'm running on fumes but in the best way this is so exciting i know the feeling yeah i know the
02:43:18.980 feeling when all of a sudden you kind of hit that curve yeah and that's where kind of you're at
02:43:22.780 right now where it's like waiting for that moment finally it's it's um it's really unbelievable so i
02:43:29.000 i had the privilege this monday to speak on a panel in front of the senate to testify on behalf
02:43:36.140 of uh chronic disease in this country and the health of children holding big food and big pharma
02:43:41.040 accountable it was it was uh it was spearheaded by senator ron johnson and rfk jr and um it was
02:43:48.260 a powerhouse of all kinds of people harvard stanford medical doctors uh nutritionists
02:43:53.440 activists all just speaking on behalf of the health crisis that we're in this country
02:43:58.240 and asking people to please come together totally non-partisan totally non-partisan panel to come
02:44:05.680 together to help save the next generation of American kids.
02:44:10.780 And you have an amazing podcast that's soaring because the old thing's gone.
02:44:15.020 Yes.
02:44:15.500 And it's called Culture Apothecary.
02:44:18.080 Yeah.
02:44:18.380 Culture Apothecary is my show and I rebranded-
02:44:21.960 It's number three right now of all Apple Health podcasts.
02:44:24.160 Number three.
02:44:25.380 And it was just, it's all coming together perfectly because it's a health and wellness
02:44:28.980 podcast.
02:44:29.520 And now this is like the main political conversation and it's the top health and wellness podcast
02:44:34.520 on the conservative right.
02:44:35.680 so that's really cool it's amazing let's play some of this tape here of your incredible testimony in
02:44:41.100 front of the u.s senate regarding chronic disease health wellness let's play cut 64
02:44:46.120 my average listener like me is a woman in her late 20s and early 30s and we demand accountability for
02:44:55.020 how the millennial generation was turned into a science experiment without our informed consent
02:45:00.220 for the sake of enriching big pharma, big ag, and big food.
02:45:09.380 Millennial women have started to have kids for the first time,
02:45:12.320 and they are disillusioned with how hard it has become to not only get pregnant,
02:45:16.760 but also raise kids who are healthy, happy, and mentally well.
02:45:21.340 Today, I am proud to represent them.
02:45:24.360 the poisoning of our food and the environment is the issue for these independent women
02:45:30.480 it is devastating us and our children tell us more well i just went into the whole timeline 1.00
02:45:37.820 of how millennial women in particular have been targeted by the corruption in the food
02:45:42.300 food and pharma industry uh we were the ones where the vaccine schedule started to explode
02:45:46.920 in the late 80s early 90s now you've got kids receiving up to 70 vaccinations by the time they
02:45:52.280 turn 18. We're not getting healthier. We're getting sicker. This is something that they
02:45:56.760 don't want us to talk about. And I just drew attention to how horrible our childhood was.
02:46:02.200 Growing up, the vaccine schedule explodes, disease goes up. The food pyramid that we were taught in
02:46:06.440 school was a complete sham. We were lied to. Millennial women were told that we had to be
02:46:10.500 on birth control. We were not given true informed consent about hormonal birth control, that our
02:46:14.540 anxiety, depression rates would go up 80%. We then tried to get pregnant, having trouble now
02:46:20.180 getting pregnant because the hormonal birth control was hiding different hormonal issues
02:46:24.900 that would cause infertility issues.
02:46:29.240 And then now raising kids ourselves, all the different hoops we have to jump through.
02:46:33.460 If we ask questions to our pediatrician about the vaccine schedule, we could be reported
02:46:38.340 to child protection services or kicked out of our pediatrician's office and told we're
02:46:43.520 not allowed to come back.
02:46:45.360 The fact that you can't get baby formula in this country that isn't filled with seed oils
02:46:49.400 or soy. You have to order it out of the country from Europe to come in. Human breast milk is
02:46:55.960 filled with microplastics now because of all the plastic that we're consuming on a day-to-day
02:47:00.280 basis. We talked about the panel, someone else on the panel brought up how our brains now are
02:47:04.900 basically coated in plastic because of how much we're consuming and the health issues that's
02:47:09.920 causing. So I just told the story of what millennial moms today have gone through and
02:47:15.960 are going through. Um, and the reception was insane. So they, they waited till, uh, the very 0.92
02:47:22.200 end. I spoke last after this four hour panel and Senator Ron Johnson said, we've saved the best
02:47:27.840 for last. I think he was just being nice. Like just saying that because I was last, but then I
02:47:32.100 got two standing ovations and everybody was just like geeking out, going crazy. A whole like line
02:47:36.920 picture line formed after of all these moms that said, I, I didn't know you before. Now I'm, I'm
02:47:41.420 I'm so excited to listen to your podcast.
02:47:43.260 And people were just so excited because that was my mission.
02:47:47.140 I was like, I'm not the expert.
02:47:48.200 I'm just going to speak on behalf of them and what I know they wish people would know about their day-to-day life and struggles.
02:47:53.940 And I think that resonated in a way that I just – I thought it would resonate, but I didn't know it would resonate that much.
02:47:59.200 And I'm just so grateful that it did because now everyone is talking about it.
02:48:01.800 She has no idea what she tapped into because she isn't aware of the systemic problems.
02:48:04.580 I'm just happy to be here.
02:48:07.040 And you are hitting the stride and the inflection point.
02:48:10.460 Very proud of you.
02:48:11.420 The next generation of children is predicted to not outlive their parents
02:48:18.600 if we continue on the trajectory that we are currently on.
02:48:22.140 When in human history has that ever been the case?
02:48:26.360 We are fatter than any prior generation at this age.
02:48:29.200 We're having more fertility issues.
02:48:31.340 New cancer diagnoses in the U.S. are projected to top 2 million for the first time this year.
02:48:36.500 And these new cases are almost all driven by young people.
02:48:41.420 This is according to American Cancer Society data.
02:48:44.300 What happened?
02:48:47.180 So, Alex, you're hitting on something really powerful here.
02:48:50.000 Young people know that they're inheriting a worse country than their parents.
02:48:53.240 Harder to own homes, more depressed, more suicidal.
02:48:56.800 It's just more difficult than what our parents had.
02:48:59.060 But you're also saying they're not going to live as long.
02:49:01.880 Like, everything is worse for young people.
02:49:04.480 Why is that?
02:49:05.960 Because the food and pharma has captured absolutely all of the information that we're given about health.
02:49:11.000 And so we are declining at such a rapid rate.
02:49:14.520 It's shockingly terrifying.
02:49:16.780 And the point that I made was, you know, obviously day-to-day politics are important.
02:49:21.280 Everything that you're discussing on your show is so incredibly crucial and important.
02:49:25.160 But what happens if nobody is alive to vote on these issues?
02:49:29.740 So everything we talk about, all these little political issues in the economy, whatever.
02:49:34.680 You know, little political issues like universal health care.
02:49:36.140 If there's nobody around, then it's all null and void.
02:49:39.620 So we have to do something.
02:49:41.560 And I also love, this is why the RFK endorsement to Trump was so important.
02:49:45.300 This is why I came on your show a few weeks ago and I said, Charlie, I can't express to
02:49:48.580 you how important this is. 0.77
02:49:49.720 I knew that this was the number one issue with female voters. 1.00
02:49:52.940 We may have just cinched once and for all the suburban mom vote with this panel, with 1.00
02:49:59.480 RFK Jr. there, knowing that he would be a part of the Trump administration if Trump
02:50:03.800 wins.
02:50:04.240 and so I have gotten thousands and thousands of messages over the course of the past few days
02:50:09.800 I have gained like 40 40 something thousand followers just in the last couple days alone
02:50:14.340 and it's still climbing because of these clips and it's all moms now messaging me saying I didn't
02:50:18.780 know you I haven't heard of you I everything you said was true I was bawling my eyes out listening
02:50:22.860 to that as a mom what do I do how do I get involved how can I make a difference and every
02:50:27.860 single one of them I'm replying vote Trump tell your friends to vote Trump tell your neighbor mom
02:50:32.460 friends and your your your mom groups basically trump and they're all like okay done i'm willing
02:50:37.920 to do it so good this is it this is it and this is why i've been hammering this this is why
02:50:43.140 is is if we're worried about the the women keep hammering the health and wellness it is working
02:50:50.740 because it is if you're worried about the women keep hammering the health and wellness it is 0.54
02:50:57.140 working right unpause impacting them on such a a massive level every day personal level personal 0.79
02:51:05.780 level and they were emotional they were bawling their eyes out watching my speech because what
02:51:10.700 i was saying is true and they know that we are at a crossroads here this is it this is the only
02:51:15.120 opportunity we have to fix things so yeah i mean i was like and that that's the ball game like yep
02:51:22.220 that's exactly what happened this pretty much lays out the entire thing you're harnessing the 0.98
02:51:26.840 pent-up frustration of moms in an election where they're running against a woman. 1.00
02:51:31.800 How are they going to guarantee they're going to get all the young white women to vote for them? 1.00
02:51:35.840 Easy. You inflame and speak to people's grievances. You invent explanations for why 1.00
02:51:40.720 people's lives suck. You tell them Big Pharma. You tell them there is one giant conspiracy 0.96
02:51:45.180 between the entire food industry, between every farmer, between every person who works in modern
02:51:50.060 medicine. And after I watched this, I was like, well, fuck. I don't think it was the economy at 1.00
02:51:55.080 all. I think the entire time it was this fucking Maha thing. Dude, you're so right. That's what 0.99
02:52:01.540 happened. Like, this is what happened. It was this all along. I mean, it's the same thing that
02:52:06.860 we always hammer back, but like, congrats. That's a really smart thing for them to do because there's
02:52:11.960 no functional alternative on the left. No. I don't know if it's entirely true that these people used
02:52:17.060 to all be on the left because I think that there's an argument that a lot of that hippie movement was
02:52:20.380 like kind of libertarian-esque. I mean, I don't know. But I do think it's very true that there is
02:52:25.860 no one on the left who has spoken to this besides, who am I going to fucking say? Bernie Sanders. 0.98
02:52:32.400 Like no one has spoken to this kind of stuff. And frankly, even he wasn't as good as speaking
02:52:38.640 directly to women because that wasn't his goal. His goal was class solidarity. But having solidarity
02:52:44.700 amongst white women and they love a reason for grievance what an amazing opportunity to prove 0.86
02:52:52.240 that you are in fact the victim of the story yeah like that's incredible what a gift that's great 0.99
02:52:57.060 work and we're gonna have to spend our entire fucking lives dismantling these these looney 0.91
02:53:00.960 tunes but the good news is the really good news is that if we do have elections in three years 0.99
02:53:05.500 it's not going to be that hard there's going to be a lot of shit that takes the rest of our lives 0.98
02:53:11.320 to rehabilitate after this administration. 0.98
02:53:13.780 But I actually don't think they're going to get pretty far with this
02:53:16.060 because what Kennedy wants to do,
02:53:17.720 what these Make America Healthy Again people want to do
02:53:20.360 actually requires a lot of work and a lot of agencies
02:53:23.400 and a lot of oversight.
02:53:24.820 And a lot of coordination.
02:53:26.400 A lot of coordination.
02:53:28.000 They're trying to do exactly the opposite of what Trump and Elon are doing
02:53:31.240 and it's not going to happen.
02:53:32.340 Yes.
02:53:32.920 It's very antithetical, the broader goals of the administration.
02:53:36.520 Yeah, I agree.
02:53:37.440 so thanks for spending three and a half hours talking about that i hated every minute i trust 0.99
02:53:43.620 that you did too um but that's my uh that's my diagnosis of the maha mamas well i'm gonna go 0.53
02:53:51.680 downstairs and i'm gonna do what i like to do as a childless 31 year old lib and heat up some 0.97
02:53:57.780 trader joe's gnocchi and sit on the couch with my fucking husband and watch and watch traders 0.99
02:54:02.660 Oh, in a plastic container in the microwave. 1.00
02:54:05.820 Just dancing on my eggs graves, left, right, and center.