For The Wild - Episode Swap： HOW TO SURVIVE THE END OF THE WORLD ⧸ All About Love

00:00:00.000 Hey, For the Wild community, Ayanna here.

00:00:02.920 This week, we are taking a break from our regularly scheduled programming to do a special

00:00:07.740 Encore episode swap with How to Survive the End of the World podcast.

00:00:12.100 In this episode, host Adrienne Marie Brown and Autumn Brown introduce their brand new

00:00:16.960 season that looks at all the facets of love.

00:00:20.380 We hope you enjoy this week's episode, and we will be back next week with a new episode

00:00:24.720 of For the Wild podcast.

00:00:26.980 What is love?

00:00:28.460 What is love?

00:00:30.000 What is love?

00:00:32.180 Why does it hurt so bad?

00:00:33.640 And why is it so necessary?

00:00:52.380 I'm Autumn Brown, a wealthy socialite, moonlighting as a bike courier from the 1990s

00:00:59.740 and real-world hopeful, living on Dakota and Anishinaabe land, currently known as Minneapolis.

00:01:07.240 And I'm Adrienne Marie Brown, a radical femme aspirational Lin-Manuel Miranda,

00:01:12.840 student of miracles, love, emergent strategist, and pleasure activist living in the land of the

00:01:18.700 Shikori, Skorure, Tuscarora, and Lumbee people known as Durham. This is How to Survive the End

00:01:26.540 of the world our podcast about learning from apocalypse with grace rigor and curiosity

00:01:33.660 and this season season six season six season six is our all about love season we are dedicating

00:01:45.060 this season to our black feminist new ancestor bell hooks the beloved one and particularly her

00:01:53.700 groundbreaking work, All About Love, New Visions. And we are going to dedicate an entire season

00:02:00.500 to talking about love in this world right now and how it's deeply tied into why we want to survive,

00:02:09.600 how we survive, and who we survive with. Get ready for some new segments.

00:02:17.060 Oh, yes.

00:02:19.340 We have to have new segments for this.

00:02:21.380 So before we hop into new segments, Autumn, it's been a long time.

00:02:26.540 I should have left you without a check-in.

00:02:28.440 What's going on, sister?

00:02:30.980 Well.

00:02:31.960 Yeah, how are you?

00:02:32.980 I mean, you know how I'm doing.

00:02:34.940 I literally just love your presence.

00:02:36.120 You literally just love my house, my actual house that I live in now.

00:02:42.100 I'm doing really well today.

00:02:44.380 Um, my big fun announcement to, um, our listeners is that I bought a house and a whole house,

00:02:54.700 a whole house.

00:02:56.140 And I am currently recording from my office on the third floor of my whole house.

00:03:02.200 And it's a beautiful, beautiful space.

00:03:06.000 And it is also, um, the first true office that I've ever had.

00:03:10.900 I've worked from home most of my adult life, but I've never had an office that wasn't also

00:03:18.520 a bedroom or a living room or a corner or a corner of something else. So this is like a

00:03:28.020 big upgrade for my life that I have an actual space that has a door that closes that's like

00:03:33.740 on a different level of the house than where everything else takes place. And, but everything

00:03:39.680 about everything about this house is like very magical. Everything about the way that I came

00:03:44.940 into ownership of this house is extremely magical and imbued with magic. Um, and you know, I have to

00:03:52.680 say like, when I, when I went through my divorce, as you know, I was like, I'm never buying a house

00:04:01.080 again. I was like, I will never, I'm never, you know, I just had all these feelings associated

00:04:07.180 with like having to let go of a house that I, you know, thought I was going to like grow old and

00:04:13.060 die in. And so there's something that's been so really beautiful about like, about making the

00:04:20.260 life affirming choice to say, um, I'm going to buy this house because I plan to actually be here

00:04:26.900 for at least the next decade of my life and to feel really at home immediately in the space.

00:04:33.940 um and just there's been a lot of joy already um a lot of big feelings already in the space

00:04:43.420 as you got to witness a couple of days ago um like the kids are really enjoying the space

00:04:51.280 I'm really enjoying the space and it really is like it feels I can already feel the ways

00:04:56.820 that it's like making my life better. I'm very happy. I'm very happy today. It's such a gorgeous

00:05:05.920 home. How are you today? You just got home. I just got home from your beautiful home to my

00:05:13.900 beautiful home. And, um, I'm feeling really intact, you know, like that's, I keep having

00:05:21.980 this like oh I can really feel all the parts of myself in my house and there's for the first time

00:05:28.400 ever a lawn care person came today to completely take care of my lawn garden area like everything

00:05:37.260 outside and like it with no like he just he was just there he just like I looked out the window

00:05:43.660 and I'm like oh you're just handling it like there was no like let's pretend like you know anything

00:05:47.820 and you need to tell me what to, like, it was just like, I can see. He was like, you filled

00:05:52.220 out the intake. So I'll just, he's like, this is, this is bad. And I love it. And I'll take

00:05:56.920 care of the land. Um, so that's really great. My very dear friend, Jen Kidwell, who is an

00:06:03.920 incredible artist, um, of the Fiatta, um, is visiting me with like, she showed up yesterday

00:06:10.300 and she's like, I brought you peanut M&Ms. And I was like, that is so kind. That's so loving.

00:06:17.300 so she's here with me and yeah it's spring this is my first like spring in north carolina so it's

00:06:23.560 like hot already i'm like it was like cold and then it's like 80 degrees um so that feels exciting

00:06:29.860 to me like that's great for you i was making that face on my own behalf i know that face i was like

00:06:34.260 that face is from your cold house but i am warm um and like even wearing a sweatshirt inside the

00:06:41.480 warmth like i just love being warm so those are all the ways you do love being warm i'm just a

00:06:46.640 little toasty toast. You were like so cute when you were here with your, like, I need a, I need

00:06:51.380 an electric blanket to go under me on the air mattress, Autumn. Well, because the air was

00:06:56.760 getting cold. The air is cold. Exactly. The air was getting cold on the cold floor. When I, the

00:07:01.780 second night with the electric blanket under me and a hot water bottle next to me, like up under

00:07:07.320 my pajamas, I was like, finally I can, I can rest. Now you're comfortable. Parts of me are kind of

00:07:13.320 sweaty. This is good. Um, so yeah, and I'm, I'm like really excited to be back in this space with

00:07:22.640 you. And I'm really excited for the, the season that we have ahead of us. And like, you know,

00:07:28.220 we have done, we've gone in so many directions with this podcast and last season felt like a

00:07:34.020 really epic groundbreaking historical season of interviews. And, um, which was awesome. Like I

00:07:40.460 really loved all the interviews we did I'm really proud of what we created there but I'm also really

00:07:45.620 excited just like kick it with you and get to talk with you about all these things and see

00:07:49.760 what you you know I think over the course of this season people are going to be astounded by all the

00:07:55.680 parallels and divergences of love that we know and have experienced in life you know so I'm really

00:08:03.340 I was thinking about this too. I'm so excited. And I was thinking about how full circle this

00:08:12.200 moment is for us to be doing a season about love specifically, because one of, you know,

00:08:17.920 for a long time, you and I were like, we would, we would, you know, we're doing our work. We're

00:08:23.800 doing our work. We're coming back together and being like exchange of lessons, exchange of

00:08:28.040 learnings, exchange of wisdom. And then we're going back out into the world and doing our work

00:08:31.360 in separate locations. But one of the first projects that you and I conceived of doing

00:08:36.080 together was a book project on radical love, where we were going to be exploring, like,

00:08:42.580 you know, love as we learned it through our parentage and through our family and all those

00:08:48.120 things. So there's something that to me seems, even though we never actually made that book,

00:08:52.460 it's like, we're going to make it right now. Exactly. You know, I really feel that. I feel

00:08:57.500 like there's something about this that feels fated. So I'm really excited. And, um, I have

00:09:06.120 a question, which is, should we tell people about our Patreon stuff now? Hmm. Yeah. Why not? Let's

00:09:12.920 do a little, a little shameless self. Yeah. Well, we're learning about all this Patreon stuff,

00:09:18.620 but like, so we have a Patreon. It's really sweet. We really appreciate all the people who

00:09:23.600 are already members of it and we find like all those people were just operating on faith basically

00:09:28.780 they're just like i love y'all here's something without anything in return and finally we got it

00:09:33.700 together and now we have stuff for them for y'all so the we're inviting people to become patrons of

00:09:40.580 us become patrons of this season um it really supports us to cover the cost of what we're doing

00:09:46.240 and that invitation now comes with beautiful merch um we have a t-shirt we have a tote bag

00:09:54.940 we have a mug we have a poster and we have a gift certificate to fat in the moon discount code right

00:10:02.540 um who they all they make the best smelling yummy natural delightful bath and body things right and

00:10:10.980 we have a lot of different like artists involved in the design of our merch so the mug is um a

00:10:19.940 design that we commissioned from an artist named hannah chalue and the t-shirt and um the tote bag

00:10:28.460 design came from bianca ibarculia who also designed the um uh syllabus that was created by

00:10:39.820 an academic based on our work a few years ago if people remember that beautiful syllabus that went

00:10:45.640 out that was like based on the show um and then of course we have the poster that was designed by

00:10:51.920 adrian marie brown i drew um yeah so it's like for those of you who are already patrons if you

00:10:58.080 haven't had a chance to go over and like make sure that you're signed up in a tier where you're

00:11:02.940 actually going to receive merch that's an important step to take um but if you are not a patron now

00:11:08.380 is a good time to go over there, check it out and pick a level that you can sign up at. And then

00:11:13.380 any level that you sign up on, you get access to this other special thing that we started doing

00:11:18.880 this year called ask us anything episodes where we field a bunch of questions from our patrons.

00:11:26.300 And then we record a special session, just the two of us answering those questions and then drop it

00:11:31.160 just to patrons. So there's also like patron only content that is going to be coming out throughout

00:11:36.760 the year. Some of it is those ask us anythings. We'll probably also drop some special event

00:11:41.240 content to patrons only. Um, so yeah, it's like, it's new for us to be doing this. And we're

00:11:48.480 also so excited to be at a point in the life of the show where we actually have capacity

00:11:55.140 and stability enough to be able to do this. So that is great. Okay. We're making it on our own.

00:12:01.980 Okay. Um, yeah. So we, we, we have a new segment. Yeah. And I think like, if I was to describe this,

00:12:13.180 the sound of this segment, it would be like the flume of like that. Yes. How would you describe

00:12:21.460 it. I would, I would describe it with these sounds. Oh, wow. Great. So yeah. So we last

00:12:34.940 seasons, you know, we've given you the flume of rage and we really spent some time digging deep

00:12:40.120 into what was enraging to us. And there's so much the depths of our anger, we plumbed it,

00:12:44.780 but now with this season, because our focus is really about love, we wanted to give ourselves

00:12:50.880 room for awe to really notice that even in spite of everything out there that is hard and difficult

00:12:57.400 and sad and you know despairing and grief filled there are still these moments of awe there are

00:13:03.580 still these moments of wonder and joy and pleasure and we wanted a chance to uplift those and share

00:13:12.360 those and to share what's really inspiring and exciting us right now so we're this is going to

00:13:17.880 be our first flume of awe the flume of awe so going forward we'll be asking each other what is

00:13:23.400 something that is giving you joy pleasure and or other feelings of awe and adrian do you want to

00:13:31.560 go first with your flume of awe in general folks know that i have a soft place a joyful place in

00:13:40.000 my heart for direct action like i i just feel like it moves me every time i see humans willing

00:13:45.540 to put their time energy and bodies in front of what they care about right and just like this is

00:13:51.000 something that really matters to me and recently a ton of scientists around the world took a direct

00:13:57.720 action where they went out of their buildings locked themselves to their buildings locked

00:14:02.980 themselves to the front doors to lock down the places where they were working in order to make

00:14:08.060 a statement about the level of climate crisis we're in and the climate crisis is a place of

00:14:14.360 despair for me, but all the actions I see humans taking humans who may not see themselves as

00:14:20.380 warriors in this struggle, but like something has moved them to this point. So the video,

00:14:25.580 the first video that I saw was this NASA scientist who was doing it. He was, he had chained himself

00:14:30.280 to the front of his building and he was crying as he took this action. Like it was so tied into

00:14:37.080 his heart. And what I felt when I was watching it was that off. And I'm like, I don't know this

00:14:42.900 person. I don't know any of these people, but the feeling I have in my heart for this world,

00:14:47.980 they have that feeling in their heart. And I felt like as an earthling, I could feel the way the

00:14:57.300 earth receives the love of that action. And it's got to stop. We're going to lose everything.

00:15:02.820 And we're not joking. We're not lying. We're not exaggerating. This is so bad, everyone,

00:15:10.180 that we're willing to take this risk

00:15:12.900 and more and more scientists

00:15:14.140 and more and more people

00:15:15.020 are going to start joining us.

00:15:16.640 This is for all of the kids of the world,

00:15:19.440 all the young people,

00:15:20.900 all the future people.

00:15:22.300 This is so much bigger than any of us.

00:15:27.660 It's the same energy I felt during Standing Rock.

00:15:30.480 It's the energy I feel about the activists

00:15:33.200 who are holding down the mountains in Hawaii.

00:15:35.140 I feel this way where I'm just like,

00:15:36.700 oh, like there's so many of us still loving and fighting for this place. And that fills me with

00:15:43.200 awe. Oh, I love that. I didn't even know that that was happening because I'm like offline.

00:15:48.920 So much other stuff happened that day and that's how things go these days, right? It's like, it's

00:15:53.500 hard to bring enough attention. It's like, oh wait, there was a random shooter. This is that.

00:15:58.020 But also this happened and it was meaningful. And so I want to know about for you, what is

00:16:06.000 something for you that's joy pleasure this is something that's giving me a feeling of awe and

00:16:11.040 has to do with how awe how we experience awe so this is something that my therapist literally

00:16:15.680 just told me today that when we hold our breath we can temporarily see and hear better

00:16:23.560 what and that applies to both the experience of being startled and afraid like the

00:16:30.060 yeah you know like your body then can temporarily see and hear better so that you can like locate

00:16:35.760 yourself and locate the thing that has startled you and figure out like temporarily your senses

00:16:42.040 are heightened so that you can figure out whether you're in danger but it also relates to experiencing

00:16:47.340 awe so if you see something that is like beautiful then your senses ought to like briefly will

00:16:54.720 heighten so you can take in more of the information of that awesomeness that's a good design how 0.81

00:17:02.560 fucking cool is that? Pretty fucking cool. Like that's amazing. I love stuff like that. I just 0.98

00:17:09.840 love stuff. Way to go human body. And I love also, I love the fact that like the same, it's like the

00:17:16.360 same function serves both. Are you terrified? Are you terrified? Is it wonder you, you need to see

00:17:25.840 you need to hear this girl you need to hear this wow that's incredible i love it it feels tied into

00:17:34.480 the fact that when you lose a sense another one heightens too like there's just these ways of

00:17:39.480 balance in the body i love that thank you um so cool thank you thank you everyone for coming to

00:17:45.700 our flume of awe. So, well, you know, there's one other thing I meant, I think I was going to say

00:17:57.320 in my check-in and I may have said it before, but I feel like I'm going to say it every single

00:18:00.900 episode, which is also, I was commissioned for a musical and that gives me feelings of awe. It's

00:18:06.760 also my check-in. I was commissioned. I was commissioned for a musical. Um, it's, it's,

00:18:15.680 it's really like, you know, there's moments in your life when you're like, I'm on the threshold

00:18:19.660 of something that feels like it's really big for me. It feels like it's really like opening my

00:18:24.960 heart to new possibilities. And it's also the unknown. And I'm really geeking out about it.

00:18:29.680 Cause I'm like, I don't know how to do this at all. Like it's so thrilling. I'm about to learn.

00:18:36.460 I just, I keep, I have a lot of people in my life who do have insight. And now, now you also have

00:18:43.280 the guidebook of the TV show, high school musical, the musical, the series, we're going to get to

00:18:47.200 that because that is my pop culture. Yes. No, but we're going to dive deep, deep. Okay. We all dive

00:18:54.540 deep. So I'm so excited for you. I'm so excited for you. And I'm so excited for like, of course,

00:19:03.060 the supports that you're going to call in around how this is done. And also so excited for the way

00:19:08.020 you're going to do it. Yeah. Cause I'm just like, I even calling it a musical is it's bending the

00:19:14.200 reality of what it is. Cause I'm like, it's like a musical ritual, immersive experience. Of course

00:19:19.740 it's, you know, it's, I, it's basically the dream in my head of what humans are doing whenever we're

00:19:24.320 together. So I'm really excited. Um, but it fills me with awe. So yes, yes, yes, yes. So here we are.

00:19:32.600 sister. Can I introduce the primary? I really need you to bring the theme in. Here's what the theme

00:19:40.200 is. What is love? Baby, don't hurt me. Don't hurt me no more. What is love? That's the theme

00:19:51.620 of our conversation today. What is love? What is love? What is love? Why does it hurt so bad?

00:20:02.600 and why is it so necessary? Oh, I love this. Well, and I want to know, like for you,

00:20:10.940 like when you walk around in the world and you love things, like what is love to you?

00:20:14.860 How do you define it? Yeah. And I was actually just, um, I was actually just talking with my

00:20:22.000 Aikido teacher about this a few months ago, Galen, because Galen, um, because I was like describing

00:20:30.300 how the feeling that I feel when I'm on the mat and my energetic field meets the energetic field

00:20:40.600 of another person that I'm practicing with, then like the only thing that's happening is like,

00:20:48.640 I mean, physically, the only thing that's happening is like the two of us are trying

00:20:52.300 to work out the technique together. That's right. But in, in, in the moment of our energetic fields

00:20:58.780 meeting, there is something that's so profound and indescribable. And to me, it often feels like

00:21:07.660 love, or it feels like the thing that I would say is like the, that experienced, um, like aliveness

00:21:16.340 sense that you have when you're in someone else's presence. And it's been interesting to experience

00:21:22.480 it like in my dojo as with a bunch of people who most of whom I only know in that context right

00:21:30.080 and in some ways it like makes whatever feelings I'm having towards other people in the room

00:21:35.320 it's even more precise because of the fact that I have the only the dojo as the context for the

00:21:43.400 relationship yeah and so I'm not I don't there's there's less and less and less that I can project

00:21:48.820 onto the people. Cause it's just like, I'm a body, you're a body. We're figuring this out

00:21:52.800 together. Um, but if I, I can kind of extrapolate that experience as like, uh, there's like this

00:22:00.600 to that, that if I take it closer to home that I'm like thinking about last night,

00:22:06.540 you know, sitting on the couch with Mairead and watching an episode of high school musical,

00:22:14.160 the musical, the series, and then just like looking over at Maraid and Maraid looks over at

00:22:18.880 me and we just look at each other and smile. And then like, and Maraid takes my hand and then we

00:22:25.420 just turn back to the screen. There's something in that like exchange of affection that is

00:22:33.080 requires absolutely nothing verbal for us to both be deeply understanding that the thing that we're

00:22:41.080 feeling is love for one another. Yes. You know, I think that one of the things that makes love so

00:22:47.500 unique is how difficult to verbalize it is, you know, and how most of the ways that we experience

00:22:58.140 or know that we love someone are things that, you know, it's like why most poetry and song is about

00:23:04.300 love because we're always struggling to find the word for the words to describe what the feeling is.

00:23:10.360 that's right um yeah what about you like what do you how do you like try to say what love is

00:23:18.000 so i there's you know in the reading of all about love from bell hooks she has this definition that

00:23:24.860 i have i fell in love with which is an echo of the work of eric from and it's defining love as

00:23:32.360 the will to extend oneself for the purpose of nurturing one's own or another's spiritual growth

00:23:38.740 and when I think of love as the action right rather than like a state of being or of that

00:23:45.680 you can fall into it's like the act of loving is really that like I'm extending towards your

00:23:51.260 spiritual growth and I'm nurturing my own and and all of that's happening concurrently so mostly

00:23:58.680 that but then also I think about my nibblings I think about when I got to hold you as a little

00:24:05.900 baby, you know, where I wasn't thinking about growth. I didn't have a framework and babies

00:24:11.520 don't have a framework of growth. And I love that you brought up sitting on the couch with Maraid

00:24:15.380 because, you know, last week I was sitting on the couch surrounded by all three of your children,

00:24:19.840 you know, and they all were, they needed to be in touch with me. So like Finn's Finn was like

00:24:26.500 reaching over Maraid to have a hand on my shoulder. Siobhan had her feet tucked under my leg and

00:24:32.500 And Mairead was like tucked up under my arm and we just had these moments of just like

00:24:37.740 sitting there, smiling, beaming at each other.

00:24:40.540 And I know that from me, there's that pouring of spiritual growth energy, but from them,

00:24:46.120 there's just like, I love being in your presence.

00:24:48.720 This is the best thing, you know, and I never doubt that when I'm with them, that they're

00:24:53.240 just like, this is just great.

00:24:55.660 Like just being with you.

00:24:57.120 And when I think about every experience I've had of love in my life, whether it's parental,

00:25:02.220 familial friend communal you know all of that it always has that essence to it that's just like

00:25:09.780 this is what life is about being here with you this is this is it and you know those feelings

00:25:17.100 sustain through kind of the things that are really really difficult when it's like life is hard

00:25:22.540 but because we have this love it's it comes up under what's hard and makes it possible to keep

00:25:29.340 moving forward. Right. And I want to offer two quotes from bell hooks's book also. So to love

00:25:39.840 well is the task in all meaningful relationships, not just romantic bonds. Right. So I love this

00:25:47.800 love as an action. Love is something that we are trying to get great at. And then to tie it into

00:25:54.940 why we, as the host of How to Survive the End of the World, would talk about love for an entire

00:26:00.540 season, I want to offer this quote from Bell Hooks, which is, only love can heal the wounds

00:26:06.400 of the past. However, the intensity of our woundedness often leads to a closing of the

00:26:12.480 heart, making it impossible for us to give or receive the love that is given to us.

00:26:17.520 So when I think about how we're in a situation where we even need to survive, it's because

00:26:23.200 there are these deep wounds, wounds that have come between us as a species, wounds that have

00:26:29.980 become systemic wounds that have become structural wounds that are keeping us from a sense of deep

00:26:37.060 belonging to each other, right? Keeping us from being able to feel ourselves intact in relationship

00:26:43.500 with others. And if only love can heal the wounds from the past, then we have to find ways to make

00:26:50.740 it possible to open our hearts again and let, let that in. And, you know, there's that Japanese 0.93

00:26:57.640 practice of healing things with gold. I have literally, I have a ceramicist who is doing

00:27:04.740 that for me right now with a pot. Right. So Kintsugi. So my friend Ian in Detroit did that

00:27:13.000 for me with a few items last year. And I remember thinking like, Oh, when I say healing, this is a

00:27:20.360 little bit of what I mean is like, there's some gold in the universe and I'm not the gold,

00:27:25.100 but I will help it find its way into these gaps, you know? Um, and I want to think about that with

00:27:33.500 this season, that part of what we're doing is figuring out like, where are the wounds

00:27:37.760 trying to survive and how can love be the medicine? Yeah. I was, I was just trying to

00:27:43.760 find, there's this beautiful quote from Resmaa Menakem that I was trying to find about, about

00:27:49.500 the thing that you were just describing how like that that unhealed wound over time becomes like

00:27:55.600 a personality in someone and then over time becomes culture right yes yes exactly like the

00:28:03.380 things that we think of as culture often are like rooted in debt like generations old unhealed

00:28:10.380 wounds exactly um and people really think of themselves as like broken right and they think

00:28:16.100 of their communities and cultures is broken, but we also know, I mean, well, I think we believe you

00:28:22.720 and I believe, and many of us believe that we have the medicine for those wounds, but it's like,

00:28:28.720 what is the thing that makes it medicine? It's that it's choosing to apply it. That's right.

00:28:33.540 Right. It's choosing to actually use it as medicine rather than just, um, experience it

00:28:39.820 or expect that it's going to be experienced. Yes. And that's why, that's part of why I love

00:28:44.780 this definition that bell hooks, you know, uplifted because it's like, okay, so we need

00:28:51.060 to extend that, right? We need to find a way to open, soften, and be generous in this moment.

00:28:57.160 That's actually the most important thing. We've been told, we've been given a narrative of scarcity

00:29:01.880 that keeps us divided from each other and wounding each other and staying in those places where we're

00:29:07.400 like, I don't even think I can love, or I don't even know how to be a different way. And it's like,

00:29:12.000 actually there's a will that we can cultivate to extend ourselves towards nurturing towards

00:29:19.000 nurturing our highest selves, towards nurturing our loving selves, you know, as we are and

00:29:23.320 nurturing each other. And I think this is a time where we need to be moving from scarcity to

00:29:28.360 generosity and where we need to be moving from the idea of being individuals to the idea of being

00:29:34.200 one, right. Right. One whole being, uh, Michaela Harrison has been doing this whale song, whale

00:29:41.880 whispering work. And the main message she's gathered from the whales is we are one, right.

00:29:47.640 Which I find so loving because it's like, Oh, like when I offer love to anything else,

00:29:53.920 I'm offering love back to myself as well. Like it's, it's a total act, you know, like there's,

00:29:59.820 there's not even an inward outward. It's just like, it's all so interconnected. And I,

00:30:04.880 that grills me. I mean, not to make it all about science, but the science backs that one up,

00:30:10.640 you know what I mean? Like, um, neuroscience backs it up, physical science backs it up,

00:30:15.420 but like the more that we experience and enact love, the more that we are experiencing it

00:30:23.480 internally, you know? So, um, it's one of those places where all of the ways that we know things

00:30:29.740 align around this one. That's right. So I thought we could, you know, we've mapped out a season and

00:30:39.160 what we cover may or may not fall as neatly as this map, you know, like we may get lost along

00:30:46.600 the way. There may be moments where we're like, wait, we've got to climb up to that ledge and

00:30:49.980 see what's up there. So it's like a suggestive map through an adventurous territory, but we

00:30:56.340 wanted to share with you all some of the things we're imagining exploring over the course of this

00:31:01.380 season that we're excited to get into. And I thought we could just sort of take turns going

00:31:06.740 back and forth with what we have so far as ideas. So one thing we really want to explore is what it

00:31:13.220 means to love ourselves as we are. Right. And I think of my teacher Spenta Kandawala, you know,

00:31:20.180 she was the first person to say to me like nothing to fix. Right. There's nothing to fix with you.

00:31:24.760 There's nothing that is like fundamentally broken in you. It's just, how can you sort of be with

00:31:30.340 everything that has shaped you to be as you are? And then from that place, act towards yourself,

00:31:36.620 you know, like where do you want to go? So there's a self-acceptance that is at the heart of this

00:31:41.820 kind of love. It's like, I am who I am and I can't be ashamed of the things that shaped me

00:31:47.180 to be who I am. That that's, that's the particular basket of life that I was given to work with,

00:31:53.640 right? If this, if that's the show, what's that show? Um, um, chopped, right? It's like,

00:32:04.080 here's your random ingredients that include a package of ham and a bottle of Prosecco.

00:32:09.180 Exactly. Right. And so pretty pebbles make a dessert, right? So it's kind of like life is

00:32:18.340 like you're chopped, right? It's just sort of like you were given, you know, excellent parenting or

00:32:23.040 less excellent parenting poverty wealth you were given a race you were given all these cultural

00:32:28.380 artifacts or none of them you were given songs spirit practice you were given trauma you were

00:32:34.400 given privilege you were given these things and here you go and what are you going to how are you

00:32:40.180 going from this to make the beautiful meal of your life how are you going to make something

00:32:43.980 not just edible okay how are you going to make something delicious and incredible and part of

00:32:50.080 that is our bodies. Part of that is our minds. Part of that is our spirits. So we're both now

00:32:56.360 getting into those ages where it's like, oh, the body really starts to change. And you can think

00:33:01.960 of it as deterioration. I'm really not feeling it that way. I'm just sort of like, oh, my body

00:33:06.460 is changing. And I have to be much more mindful to shape those changes and partner with my body

00:33:12.460 and love my body as, you know, like, I'm like, we're not going backwards, right? This body that

00:33:18.880 is 43 will never be 23 again. Right. Body is 43. And what is the, the, the most loving way I can 1.00

00:33:25.080 be 43. Right. Um, yeah. And for me, you know, what do I want 63 to look like? What do I want

00:33:31.740 63 to look like? You know, I'd like to get to an 83, 103, 203. So, you know, how are we, you know,

00:33:38.260 just, it's me, right. But so I really want to talk. I'm like, I'm laying here frozen,

00:33:44.260 but I'm healthiest, but I'm healthy. But I want us to talk in, you know, get there about the

00:33:52.060 health practices we're engaging in and what has shifted with those. I also want us to talk there

00:33:57.720 about mental health and what it means to like, stop battling the, the mind and really be like,

00:34:05.300 okay, this is what my mind does. And how do I be with that? How can I love that? So that's going

00:34:12.120 to be one episode that we're going to dive into. Beautiful. Beautiful. Yep. It's going to be

00:34:16.540 fucking awesome. It might end up being more than one episode. Let's be real. I was just thinking 0.60

00:34:19.860 that at least one. We also want to do again, at least one, if not more episodes on divine love.

00:34:27.980 And, um, we are really interested in both how we experience the sacred and also

00:34:36.840 what some of our sacred texts have to say about love. Um, because, um, I mean, one of the things

00:34:44.860 that I love about various sacred traditions is that, um, a lot of the religious and spiritual

00:34:50.680 traditions that we've inherited have a lot to say about how love is experienced in different forms

00:34:55.360 of love and how we can cultivate different forms of love in our lives, um, and how we can experience

00:35:02.640 divine love versus other types of love. Um, so we're going to have some really interesting ground

00:35:08.160 to explore there. Um, and hopefully we'll also be able to get a little bit into how some of our

00:35:15.880 religious and spiritual spaces that we inhabit, like churches, synagogues, um, mosques, um,

00:35:27.320 covens, you know, all of the different ways that we talk about, like, what are the spiritual space,

00:35:31.920 what are the spaces that we claim for our practice, how we can cultivate love in those

00:35:37.380 spaces, but also how some of those spaces can confuse our experiences of love or suppress our

00:35:43.300 experiences of love or judge them. Um, you know, so we'll be getting into some, you know,

00:35:50.340 some interesting territory, both, um, I think leveraging our religious and spiritual traditions

00:35:56.360 as a way of understanding love and thinking about how love has been understood historically and how

00:36:01.660 it's understood now, because even how we understand romantic love, for instance, has changed a lot in

00:36:06.540 the last century. But also thinking about how having a spiritual life can really shape how

00:36:14.860 open or not open to love we are. I love that.

00:36:21.960 So then we want to get into falling in love, right? What one of my favorite things, one of my

00:36:29.120 very favorite things we love to fall in love here um and i want us to talk both about falling in

00:36:34.960 love in the romantic context but also like that falling in love with a new friend falling in love

00:36:39.940 with a new comrade like falling in love that act of being like holy wow so you just out here

00:36:47.060 existing and i didn't even know and now like right or falling in love with someone where you're like

00:36:52.160 i've known you i've known you for i didn't even seven lifetimes oh you mean like i knew you like

00:36:58.180 I'm like, no, like I knew you something shifted. Right. And I especially want to talk because

00:37:05.360 we're grown folks business over here that, you know, the first time you fall in love for many

00:37:10.740 people, when we're really young teenagers, maybe early twenties, that first big falling in love

00:37:14.800 experience is one thing, but after your first big heartbreak, the continued possibility of falling

00:37:22.440 in love, the continued practice of falling in love, it changes. And I want us to really talk

00:37:27.580 about that and what it means to, you know, I think more and more over time, learn to be yourself

00:37:34.720 while in the practice of falling in love. Right. So we're going to spend some time there and I'd

00:37:42.260 love to have some science in that. Like, what is the science of falling in love? What's happening

00:37:45.740 in the body? What's happening to the brain? Oh yeah. What's the chemical reaction, you know,

00:37:51.200 what's happening? So we'll talk, we're going to talk to science. Let's talk to science about a

00:37:56.800 little bit of slants in there. And then we're going to talk about sustaining love. Um, and

00:38:03.260 we're going to get into a little bit of some, uh, toolboxes, like a toolbox approach to what we have

00:38:12.120 found in our lives as like ways that you can actually sustain love in your life. And that

00:38:18.040 doesn't just mean sustaining romantic love, but sustaining the experience of love in spite of

00:38:25.500 hardship or in relationship to hardship. Um, so we're going to talk about the role of therapy.

00:38:31.980 We're going to talk about, we're going to talk about exactly. We're going to talk about the

00:38:37.340 role of friends. Um, and I would love for us to, you know, again, we'll see, we'll see how many

00:38:46.900 episodes we've got in us, but I would love to have a whole episode just about like friendship

00:38:50.980 love because it's like this whole type of love. But we're going to talk about boundaries. We're

00:38:57.200 going to talk about adapting and transforming in relationship with others and how, like,

00:39:02.960 what are the conditions that make it possible to change and grow together? And what are the

00:39:07.240 conditions that make it really hard? We're going to talk about some of the lessons that we've

00:39:11.880 learned from like the work that we've been doing, trying to figure out how to get the love that we

00:39:16.800 want in our lives and how to call in the kind of love that we want to be experiencing and

00:39:21.660 practicing. Um, and also how to be, you know, in, um, how to be able to like be in the present

00:39:32.420 with the people who like, and loving the people who are actually here in our lives,

00:39:38.640 you know, rather than staying out in the, in some fantasy of like who we're supposed to be with

00:39:45.300 or who we're supposed to be surrounded by. That's right. And, you know, I imagine

00:39:49.780 that like many other people, this is a, this is a really interesting transition moment

00:39:57.240 of like, how do we let go of what we've been given as the, um, the meta narrative of what

00:40:05.980 sustaining love means, which is just like, take it, you know, you just, no matter what you just

00:40:12.740 escalate it, escalate it, constantly be escalating while constantly be staying while constantly

00:40:17.500 compromising. You know, that's the love practices that I think we grow up. You know, when I look at

00:40:22.120 like a lot of the love that I witnessed growing up, it was like, yeah, you just stick it out.

00:40:27.500 And I think that's changing a lot right now. It's like, wait, we could have all kinds of

00:40:33.340 formations in order to help love thrive. So, so there's that. And then, you know, we are parts

00:40:39.640 of movements and our movements really, I think are meant to be acts of love for the world,

00:40:45.640 right? It's meant to be, we see a place where there's a wound and we're going to bring love

00:40:50.640 to that. We're going to work collectively to transform this wound into a place of freedom

00:40:55.160 and liberation, which means loving at the collective level. But we can see that we've

00:40:59.800 been really stumbling and falling all over ourselves in this. Like we're really struggling

00:41:03.840 with. Well, how do we love people if we think they made a mistake? How do we love formations

00:41:09.660 that we might politically disagree with? How do we love within our formations when we're really

00:41:14.360 in a battle? And how do we fight for the freedom of people that we don't like? Okay. How, how do

00:41:22.160 we love those we don't like? Right. And like, then there's this act, what I call loving corrections.

00:41:27.640 And I really do think I'm about to do a book called loving corrections. Um, but how do we

00:41:33.080 call each other up to our highest values in movement spaces and break the cycle of like,

00:41:39.640 how do I punish you and push you down as far as I can into the mud? It's like, no, like,

00:41:44.260 how do I love you and love us and let you love me towards, towards our highest recognition and

00:41:51.120 realization of what we can be. And I think that's what movement's supposed to be. But I also think

00:41:56.940 we'll probably spend some time there in like boundaries. Like how do we practice love in

00:42:00.900 movements and still have integrity. And I, at this point I'm calling it the hemp hill method

00:42:06.580 and not just the quote apprentice hemp hill. So the hemp hill method is like, how do you practice

00:42:13.520 boundaries that are, that help you set the distance at which you can love others and yourself

00:42:19.860 simultaneously. So apprentice hemp hill, the, the black Buddha of our times is offering so much

00:42:28.400 wisdom around boundaries, but we're going to probably spend some time there because I think

00:42:32.400 in our movements, our inability to set boundaries means that often by the time we are trying to set

00:42:37.240 them, it's in like a crisis mode and it's like trying to set dynamite and create a moat and

00:42:43.960 like all kinds of stuff. That's like, love would not act that way. So literal dynamite. Yeah.

00:42:51.040 Related. Tell us about the next one. Cause I think it's very related.

00:42:53.740 It is very related. So what does it look like to do work that we love? First, how do we find the

00:43:03.560 work that we love? And then how do we give ourselves permission to do exactly the work

00:43:09.140 that we love? And that loves us. And that loves us. And you and I have both been on quite the

00:43:14.980 journey in our lives as adults around coming to understand what it is that we actually love to do

00:43:21.640 and then positioning ourselves to be able to do that work.

00:43:24.580 Yeah.

00:43:25.720 And hashtag blessed, hashtag blessed.

00:43:29.520 And, and, you know, having to navigate some of the,

00:43:34.100 some of that discernment,

00:43:35.740 I know that both of us have done around like,

00:43:37.780 well, what are the things that I'm called to do?

00:43:39.940 What are the things that I'm really good at doing?

00:43:42.660 What are the things that I was trained to do

00:43:44.900 versus what are the things that I actually love

00:43:47.260 to spend my energy on?

00:43:48.680 You know, even if I'm neither good at them

00:43:51.100 nor trained to do them. So we're going to talk about that, like about the journey towards like

00:43:57.120 being, having a feeling of, I love what I do. That's right. Which, you know, I think is so

00:44:04.180 core to feeling like you love your life, right? And I'm like, if you spend your life doing things

00:44:08.760 you don't love, it's really hard to love that life. So, um, so then, you know, every single

00:44:15.920 episode, we spend a little time in pop culture, top culture, cultural space, but we also wanted

00:44:22.200 to spend some time in like, how do we build a culture that we love? What are the things in our

00:44:28.720 culture currently that we love that, and maybe why? So I want to do, you know, in that space,

00:44:34.940 some deep dives into like, what are these things that capture our collective cultural attention

00:44:39.680 and why do they capture that attention? And how does that relate to our liberation path? Because

00:44:44.940 i think a lot of times it's places where we see people taking big risks it's places where we see

00:44:50.220 people loving themselves out loud you know i'm like we live in the age of lizzo we live in the

00:44:55.820 age of star trek discovery we live in the age of things that are like wow like this feels like such

00:45:03.220 a love offering you know so i want to live in the age of bridgerton oh we're gonna talk about that

00:45:09.540 right? Yeah. I was like, Bridgerton. So we're going to spend some time on the culture.

00:45:15.120 Yeah. We're also going to spend some time on family, um, and how we, um, experience love

00:45:25.220 within the context of family or don't, um, we're going to talk about family shaping as, you know,

00:45:31.680 the, you know, the earliest locations in which we come to understand for what love means or how

00:45:39.180 we're shaped to understand what love is and what love looks like. And some of the, um, you know,

00:45:45.580 some of us, um, learn really healthy shapes and a lot of us learn really maladaptive shapes for

00:45:51.820 what love is supposed to do for us and how we're supposed to experience love. Um, and I think a lot

00:45:56.760 of what we are going to focus on is what does it look like to practice loving our families as adults?

00:46:02.300 And yeah, you know, we have developed some practices with our immediate family,

00:46:07.180 our group as sisters and our immediate family including our parents that have helped us stay

00:46:13.680 in loving relationship with each other and so we're going to be talking about some of those

00:46:17.120 practices in depth um and also what we've heard from other families who've learned like how do

00:46:22.600 you love each other um as adults how do you continue choosing each other as adults when

00:46:28.420 especially once you've reached a point where you no longer necessarily have to choose each other

00:46:32.300 That's right. I'm really, yeah. Like, I think that's going to be one of my favorite places

00:46:37.860 because I'm, I'm both so overjoyed by what we're practicing right now as a family,

00:46:44.260 like how it feels to be in our family right now feels like the result of a lot of intentional

00:46:49.500 choices to extend love and extend towards each other's nurtured spiritual growth, you know? So

00:46:55.660 i'm like we're rocking it um and then finally although it might not be the final thing but

00:47:02.620 finally as a topic we want to explore is loving at the level of species so which to me includes

00:47:09.980 like how do we think as a species right of like how are we nurturing the whole how are we nurturing

00:47:17.260 each other and nurturing the planet that is our, our home, right? As a species, it's like falling

00:47:26.420 in love with this place and thinking of it as a, as one place to protect feels so important. How do

00:47:32.240 we do that? How do we let go of all the borders and territorial thinking that keeps us from

00:47:39.260 understanding that we are one species, one being, one interconnected body. And in this, I think we

00:47:47.400 also have to talk about what it means to love the future, right? Like not just to have ambitions for

00:47:53.580 our own individual futures, but to actually have a sense of like, I feel in love with the possibility

00:47:59.200 of the future. I see something other than just a dystopian slog of horrific things. I see something

00:48:05.820 really beautiful out there ahead of us. And I want to like love future generations enough to

00:48:13.160 fight for a future that they have, that they deserve to live in. Yeah. And you know, I think

00:48:18.680 it's like, it's something that I hear so often in people who become parents where it's like, Oh,

00:48:23.540 my, everything has changed. Now I understand. And I can love out ahead of me beyond my lifetime in

00:48:29.760 a different way. Um, I know that as an auntie, that's something that happened for me as I was

00:48:34.340 just like, it's not theoretical anymore. It's these people. And I really want them and people

00:48:40.560 that they're going to bear and, you know, and so on. But I think this is where, you know,

00:48:45.580 we will be able to tie back into indigenous wisdom of thinking in terms of seven generations,

00:48:51.720 which I think is to me, the most loving worldview that I've ever really come across. It's like,

00:48:57.080 oh, like I'm loving myself in this vast sense of what it is to be of a time, place, and being.

00:49:06.180 So that is what we're thinking of so far for our season. We hope it excites you as much as it

00:49:12.860 excites us to look ahead at these conversations. And I want to say to our readers, if there's

00:49:19.700 something we're missing, you know, if there's something you're like, listeners, what about,

00:49:23.420 oh, what did I say? Readers. Well, you know, I am also, yeah, to our listeners that if there's

00:49:33.840 something that you're like, you know, I'd love to hear y'all touch on this, or, you know, this

00:49:38.220 might tie into one of the topics you've already explored, or this might be something different.

00:49:43.080 I will say there might be something on loving animals. There might be some other kinds of love

00:49:48.180 out there let us know if there's something that you're like yeah hey hey actually let me correct

00:49:53.500 myself we have both listeners and readers because we have transcripts and now we have people who

00:49:57.880 primarily consume the show by reading it so let me not invisibilize all of the people who aren't

00:50:03.700 actually listening to the show but are taking it in good correction sister i'm proud of you yeah

00:50:09.380 i'm getting better and better at like correcting myself in real time yeah we're all learning so

00:50:14.620 to our listeners and our readers we want to hear from you about what would be what if there's any

00:50:20.800 pockets of love that we have missed so yes yes um and I love you sister I want to tell you that

00:50:28.180 like you really have been one of my favorite co-scholars in this work of figuring out what

00:50:33.460 love looks like and what it means to be in love what it means to um do the work of love what it

00:50:39.960 It means to choose ourselves, you know, to like, I think that we share this practice

00:50:46.800 of like being very skilled at pouring our love out into a lot of other containers, kind

00:50:53.340 of being a little late blooming when it comes to like pouring that love back into the containers

00:50:57.700 of ourselves.

00:50:58.840 Oh, yeah.

00:50:59.480 I'm so astounded by how I've seen you pouring the love into the container of yourself.

00:51:04.480 And I'm really grateful to get to be in these conversations with you.

00:51:08.880 Same, same. We have certainly been on the journey together all these years and always, always learning the lessons, if not at the same time, then letting each other know that, Hey, I learned this, I learned this lesson and this lesson's coming for you too, girl.

00:51:26.960 um oh yeah oh we do have those like text messages are gonna yeah that happens for us too I think

00:51:34.680 where it's like and I think that that's also what a loving relationship can do right is like

00:51:39.140 you trust each other enough to know when someone else has like the wisdom or the medicine for you

00:51:45.800 that you're gonna need but maybe you don't need it yet you know and I think that I think that we

00:51:51.460 we've certainly taken turns playing that role in each other's lives um yeah so it really feels

00:51:57.320 like there's an equality of love wisdom amongst us absolutely um yeah it's going to be a great

00:52:04.560 season yeah it's going to be a great season so let's wrap up this episode with some pop cultural

00:52:10.880 joy and um do you want to go first you want me to go first i want to worship at the church

00:52:18.260 he is just a fucking genius um so for anyone who hasn't seen bridgerton season two i don't know 0.91

00:52:30.060 who you are or what rock you live under why why have you not seen it um i was i was concerned 0.97

00:52:37.180 i was concerned about bridgerton season two when i realized that um reggie jean was not going to be

00:52:44.460 you call renee but we found out is actually called jay when i found out that he was nowhere

00:52:50.500 in sight of this season i was like okay well what is happening without what is sex um where's the

00:52:57.260 sex gonna be i don't understand and i have to say what they what they skipped on in actual sex

00:53:03.940 seasons this season they more than made up for with almost kisses oh my god those almost kisses

00:53:10.640 wow the amount of almost kissing that happens over the course of you know you could stand that

00:53:16.600 close to someone that found myself just laughing and like waving my hand in my own face and just

00:53:24.660 like i was delightful it's a delightful season it really is um there's a few things that you're like 0.82

00:53:30.460 like why is eloise not gay doesn't make sense she's and she should be gay she's obviously gay

00:53:37.580 but why is she not like, why is there not like a main gay character? It doesn't make sense.

00:53:42.320 Especially given that the main character is gay. The main character actor is gay in real life. 0.56

00:53:47.380 Exactly. It's just like, what's going on? Anyway, I was like, no wonder he's just breathing at her.

00:53:51.440 Exactly. He's got amazing chemistry with everyone apparently. Yeah. So anyway, there's a few things

00:53:58.880 that I was like, not feeling, you know, like I was one of the nights that I was watching

00:54:03.560 the season I was, was when my bestie was in town and we had this moment where we were watching a

00:54:10.460 few episodes together and she looked at me and she was like, yeah, like why do I all, I can't

00:54:15.340 differentiate between the three brothers and the Bridgerton family. Like I don't, I can't tell them

00:54:19.260 apart. And I was like, you're right. They have all the same personality basically. So, you know,

00:54:23.160 there's, there's some things that don't Penelope like being pursued. Like I want to see, I want to

00:54:29.540 see a fat love story exactly exactly so anyway there's things that I'm hoping for in season

00:54:35.940 three but I will say overall season two knocked it out of the park super fan of all the breathing

00:54:42.140 and the like trauma response of the bee sting moment I loved that I was like yes bringing in

00:54:49.640 all of it I was I was a fan that part was so good yeah lots of great stuff happening right now

00:54:55.380 and that was one of them I want to also uplift so I've been re-watching Scandal and um I I was

00:55:02.200 really appreciating both like I've been re-watching Scandal I've been going back and catching up on

00:55:06.220 Grey's Anatomy and then watching Bridgerton I'm like you know Shonda really commits to the

00:55:12.260 fantastical like in each of her shows there's something that is really just like the fantastical

00:55:17.620 so in Scandal I'm like I have to keep reminding myself like somehow you have me watching

00:55:23.140 raptly about the hijinks of these Republicans. And, you know, the ultimate, like main outcome

00:55:31.340 of this is like, these are bad people. Like, and every season is just like, even though it's

00:55:36.840 interesting and even though you might want to root for some of them, like fundamentally, these are

00:55:41.000 like, they're bad. And there, but there's this fantastical thing, which is like, there's a love

00:55:45.440 story and they're good, you know? Right. And they're the white hats. And I'm like, oh, but

00:55:51.140 that white hat is really liberal. I'm like, you literally have like bloody fingerprints all over 0.88

00:55:55.480 your white hat now. But anyway, so with Bridgerton too, I feel like she's really doubling down on the

00:56:01.260 fantastical, like, you know, this is a diverse space that will never, ever, ever talk about race.

00:56:07.560 Like we will talk, there will be scandal that is related to like, who is marrying who, but it will

00:56:17.480 never have anything to do with race. It's only class. That's the only thing here. And it just

00:56:21.340 makes me think like, I just hope that all the people in movement who are always like, it's only

00:56:25.020 class, you know, are just like watching this and just enjoying it. Right. I'm like, this is what

00:56:29.080 it looks like. If you try to hold the analysis that it's only class. So, um, enjoy. So then

00:56:38.580 what's your, what's your top culture girl? So mine is, and we mentioned it a few times in this,

00:56:43.280 and I want to thank you because I was minding my business in life and you know as I may have

00:56:49.860 mentioned I was commissioned for a musical so I've really been immersing myself in the realm

00:56:55.640 of musical projects and going back and watching some of my favorites and I had a group thread

00:57:01.040 going and Autumn just dropped into it and really out of nowhere really out of nowhere was just like

00:57:06.620 by the way does everyone know about High School Musical the musical the series and I didn't know

00:57:13.260 about it and I know I then immediately got to come visit you and get the um I would say the

00:57:21.120 fast track education exposure first to high school musical and what was happening with

00:57:28.260 Zac Efron and Vanessa Hudgens and the like awkward wonderful teenage ridiculousness of

00:57:35.160 the original high school musical story which we which you and I both we we missed that somehow

00:57:40.080 I don't know how like I think it came in the moment right after yeah so like if I can I think

00:57:47.180 it was like both of us had just it's like I was already graduated from college and I think you

00:57:51.160 were going into college right we were too old for it I literally am not paying it I don't remember

00:57:56.020 anything that was on tv the whole time I was in college like I just don't right so I think that

00:58:00.200 that was it it was I was too old for it we knew that it was happening but we were not I didn't

00:58:05.420 even had no exposure to it. Like, I literally remember seeing Zac Efron being like, who is

00:58:10.180 that? Why is he famous? I don't understand. Right. Exactly. And part of what you said was

00:58:14.280 Zac Efron is actually a triple threat. Did you know? And I'm like, I didn't know. I still don't

00:58:19.820 understand what you're talking about. So then I sat down with your children and we watched high

00:58:25.240 school musical, the original, the original musical. I was totally like, Oh, this is just

00:58:31.600 so over the top and goofy and corny and delightful. The basketball players who are dancing with

00:58:37.220 basketballs. It's, it's wonderful. And there's no, like the thing I love about Zac Efron

00:58:43.680 particularly is it's like, he just, and I think that Glee has also played in this category. It's

00:58:49.600 like people who are like, I'm supposed to be cool, but I want to do a musical. But the whole

00:58:55.780 framework of it is like, it's not possible to really be cool at that age. Right. So no one

00:59:01.600 actually is, but everyone's doing their performances and it just makes it all so

00:59:05.300 plain. And then like the sticky, sweet way that Vanessa Hudgens and Zac Efron look at each other

00:59:12.780 and look period. Like they just, I'm like, who walks around with cheeky smiles like this? Anyway,

00:59:17.640 it's just so chip monkey and cute and adorable. And then, and then the beautiful thing is

00:59:23.160 the high school musical the musical the series is a series that is set it's still all fictional

00:59:30.280 but it's set at the high school where the musical was filmed and with a a sneaky teacher who has

00:59:39.380 who realizes that the musical has never been put on at that high school hijinks ensue

00:59:44.180 auditions are after school i've seen the original movie 37 times and the first 15 minutes of both

00:59:50.560 sequels it would be insane to think i might actually have a shot at playing gabriella

00:59:54.840 now what i'm still so deeply in love with is we don't ever know what the musical is that they

01:00:02.660 were putting on there's never like a here's the musical it's like someone keeps writing songs

01:00:08.340 that seem to be sort of is there a storyline we don't know right we don't know this it's not like

01:00:14.660 we're putting on romeo and juliette or we're doing this or whatever it's not like you mean in the

01:00:18.440 series in the series it's like in the series they're putting on a high school musical but

01:00:23.340 high school musical was them putting on a musical oh right and we never know what that we never know

01:00:27.820 that musical is right but then just songs keep getting written and then olivia rodrigo because

01:00:33.660 in high school musical everything is leading up to the audition everything is yes the peak of it

01:00:38.540 is this audition moment a callback okay so and then i also have to say so for me the people the

01:00:45.820 standouts are Zac Efron and then Olivia Rodrigo who is in the series um before she became super

01:00:56.420 famous before she was super famous so and I love channel driver's license that song so I was like

01:01:01.800 oh so happy to go back and be like oh you come from somewhere and then um I was like this song

01:01:07.460 didn't just drop miraculously out of the sky and then what's her best friend's name her best

01:01:13.680 friends and the show, her best friend's name is Courtney. I don't know the actresses. Whoever 0.75

01:01:17.220 plays Courtney. I need to know what's happening with her career. Cause she's amazing.

01:01:21.640 And I'm going to look her name up right now. It felt so comforting to me. So she's this like

01:01:25.740 bombastic black queen who's giving excellent advice and has awesome, like happy style.

01:01:30.780 And what made me so happy was my enabling script being like, she's giving major Adrian vibes. And

01:01:36.380 I was just like, I see it too. I feel it too. The actress's name is Dara Renee. Okay. Dara Renee,

01:01:43.100 where are you? What are you doing? Like, let us know so that we can like watch it, listen to your

01:01:47.960 music. She's incredible. She needs to have her own thing. She needs to have an album out. So

01:01:53.000 that's the like real sweet, lighthearted place that I've spent my call. You know, I've been

01:01:58.120 I'm between scandal. So it's like the torture seasons of scandal and high school musical.

01:02:03.960 It's so good. I have to say this, this series is so good. And it's truly one I can recommend

01:02:09.180 to like if you love musicals you'll love it yes also if you love mockumentaries you'll love it

01:02:14.520 because it's got that like confessional element where they're talking directly to the camera

01:02:19.140 about what's happening around them so it has that sort of office feel um yeah and if you're like

01:02:24.820 into just like awkwardness there's so much of it in the series and so people of all ages can

01:02:31.640 enjoy the show and the music is really fun. That is our show. That is our first show. We have

01:02:41.760 season six open. Okay. Um, and should we do credits? Do you remember how to do them? Okay.

01:02:48.580 I've been right here. Thanks for listening to our show right here at my Google doc. We're on

01:02:53.020 Twitter and Instagram at end of the world PC. We're also on Facebook at end of the world show,

01:02:58.040 even if no one else is should we stop being on facebook okay you can make a sustaining donation

01:03:04.780 to our show by visiting our page at patreon.com slash into the world show another incredible

01:03:12.820 thing you can do to help our show sustain itself is to write us a review on apple podcasts if you

01:03:18.120 are an iphone person thank you or just post about it um how to survive the end of the world is

01:03:23.520 produced and edited by the incomparable zach rosen and transcribed by the sweet delightful

01:03:29.100 and talented jess pinkham and music for today's show comes from toonde alani ron and mother

01:03:34.680 cyborg all right we love y'all we love you see you soon

For The Wild - February 08, 2023

Episode Swap： HOW TO SURVIVE THE END OF THE WORLD ⧸ All About Love

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