For The Wild - April 08, 2020


ESTRELLA SANTIAGO PÉREZ on the Importance of Community Sovereignty ⧸168

Topics
DeeplyRooted: Black Mary-Olivering with brontë velez ⧸167 Homebound: Decentralizing the Power of Healing with Dr. RUPA MARYA ⧸169

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Length

48 minutes

Words per minute

158.86

Word count

7,677

Sentence count

325

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

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Hate speech

3

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Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
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00:00:30.000 Hello and welcome to For the Wild podcast. I'm Ayanna Young.
00:00:41.060 Today we are speaking with Estrella Santiago-Perez. 0.99
00:00:45.020 The reason why thousands of families right now are living in houses that have no roof,
00:00:50.120 that maybe have no windows, that are completely damaged,
00:00:53.340 because they have no access to the funds that are allocated for that same purpose.
00:00:57.800 Estrella is the Environmental Affairs Manager of the Corporación del Proyecto Enlace del Caño Martín Peña.
00:01:07.780 Enlace is a public corporation created under the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico's Act 489
00:01:13.520 and is tasked by the coordination and implementation of public policies regarding the rehabilitation of the Caño Martín Peña CMP Tidal Channel,
00:01:24.720 a 3.5-mile-long natural tide channel that is part of the San Juan Bay Estuary.
00:01:30.980 The project is an initiative that links the public, private, and community sector
00:01:35.540 to rehabilitate and revitalize the community surrounding the Tidal Channel
00:01:39.700 in order to improve their quality of life, recover natural resources, and overcome poverty.
00:01:46.400 Estrella holds a bachelor's degree in biology from the University of Puerto Rico
00:01:50.080 and a Juris Doctor from the School of Law of the University of Puerto Rico.
00:01:55.180 She participated as a speaker at the 2016 UIC School of Public Health
00:02:00.420 Dean's Forum on Climate Change in the Caribbean,
00:02:03.220 the 2018 NCSE National Conference and Global Forum
00:02:07.660 on Science Policy and the Environment, and Bioneers 2018.
00:02:13.360 Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:02:17.140 Thank you, Adana, and thank you for giving us
00:02:20.080 forum to speak about issues affecting low-income communities in Puerto Rico. And as you mentioned,
00:02:25.680 these topics are not usually discussed at a national level in the U.S. So any forum that we
00:02:29.820 can expose what are the challenges, but also the opportunities and what are the communities doing
00:02:34.480 here in Puerto Rico is very important for us. So I appreciate giving us this space and I am
00:02:39.920 very excited to talk a bit more about what we do here and also share some experiences and ideas
00:02:45.980 with you and so that everybody that's listening to us also learns more about what we do.
00:02:51.100 Thank you. And yeah, like you were saying, these conversations aren't being told,
00:02:59.280 especially through the mainstream media in the US. And these are stories that we all need to
00:03:03.600 understand globally so that we can have a better grasp of the situations we're in and how to
00:03:11.300 support healthy, resilient communities moving forward. And I'm thinking about in the aftermath
00:03:17.740 of Hurricane Maria, Puerto Rico lost about 80% of its crop value. Nearly the entire population
00:03:25.020 lost access to power. Half of the island didn't have running water and hospitals were shut down.
00:03:32.820 In doing research for this episode, I've come across stories of FEMA requiring geologists to
00:03:38.300 inspect properties before handing out aid. Yet there were, or perhaps still are, only two geologists
00:03:45.060 on the island doing this work, or stories of government controlled water and power authorities
00:03:51.340 who continued to build residents while services weren't functioning. So mainstream media certainly
00:03:56.680 loves to obsess over stories of chaos and breakdown, which leaves examples of resilience
00:04:03.340 and resurgence untold. So I wonder what the story from the ground is. Did Hurricane Maria
00:04:10.360 reveal the territory's vulnerabilities? Or how have you seen Puerto Rico respond to these
00:04:16.640 shortcomings, especially given that on October 30th, an attorney for Puerto Rico's government
00:04:22.060 admitted in a San Juan courtroom that there is no official hurricane response plan for the island?
00:04:28.060 So what you're saying beautifully is what's happening in our communities. I can provide
00:04:32.620 on samples in our communities of what was the situation like on the ground after the hurricane
00:04:37.620 and what the situation is right now. So first of all, before I speak about the situation,
00:04:42.740 I want to give a bit of background information on our communities. So El Lace works in eight 0.97
00:04:49.620 communities. And these are communities that are located in the margins of the Tidal Channel,
00:04:54.640 which is the Caña Martín Peña. These are communities that are very low income, over half
00:04:59.420 of our residents live below the poverty level. Forty-two percent of the residents are living with
00:05:04.960 an annual income of average $10,000. So prior to the hurricane, we already faced a lot of economic
00:05:12.020 hardships. In addition to these economic hardships, our communities are facing critical public health
00:05:17.940 and environmental issues because the tidal channel is blocked and almost three of our communities
00:05:24.300 lack a proper sanitary system. So when it rains, the stormwater system carries combined stormwater
00:05:31.620 and raw discharges into the Caño Martín Peña. So any rain event in our communities can result
00:05:39.240 in a flood event without having a storm or a hurricane in place. So even prior to Maria,
00:05:44.420 we already had a lot of flooding in our communities because of the lack of proper
00:05:48.580 infrastructure and because of the conditions of the Caño Martín Peña. So then September came
00:05:55.460 and obviously Hurricane Maria exacerbated the conditions in our communities. Over 75 houses
00:06:02.040 in our district were completely destroyed by the hurricane. Over 1,200 families lost their roof
00:06:09.680 either partially or totally and over 70 percent of our communities got completely flooded in some
00:06:16.160 areas for over four days. So obviously the damage was extensive and it was similar to other communities
00:06:22.240 in Puerto Rico. Both first responders were the neighbors and the leadership. We worked very hard
00:06:27.580 to coordinate with FEMA the first tarps to be distributed in the communities and we just
00:06:32.780 called FEMA, picked them up and then also acquired other donations from private entities
00:06:38.180 and distributed them into the communities the week after the hurricane. So goods were distributed,
00:06:43.500 food and a lot of things had to be done with their own communities and coordination of the
00:06:48.200 community leadership because, as you mentioned, there was a bit of miscommunication between the
00:06:52.500 government and, you know, the extensive damage was just way too much to manage and to coordinate
00:06:58.980 in time. So a lot of the immediate aid had to be provided by their own communities and secure to
00:07:04.180 a lot of allies and collaborators that just reach out to us from Puerto Rico and from outside of
00:07:08.480 Puerto Rico, too. But obviously, the conditions were very dire. And in addition to that, people
00:07:14.340 had no electricity for over five months in our communities. There was access issues during those
00:07:20.940 first days of the hurricane. We had to remove vegetation from the streets because it posed a
00:07:26.540 significant safety and health hazard to our residents. And now we have a lot of families
00:07:31.740 still with roofs made of tarps or blue roofs, which is the permanent temporary roofing provider
00:07:37.700 by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.
00:07:39.440 So that happened after the hurricane.
00:07:41.340 And one year after the hurricane,
00:07:43.040 we've done a lot of things to at least transition
00:07:45.760 from immediate relief into a more medium and long-term recovery.
00:07:49.720 But there's still a lot to do.
00:07:51.120 So the Caña Martín Peña, a year after the hurricane,
00:07:55.140 is even worse conditions.
00:07:57.100 So this channel that used to be up to 400 feet wide in the 30s,
00:08:01.880 prior to the hurricane, lost its width and its depth
00:08:05.640 due to the informal settlement process.
00:08:07.700 So prior to Hurricane Maria, the canyon from over 400 feet wide used to be up to three feet wide.
00:08:14.320 So obviously, it's severely blocked by debris, trash, and sediment.
00:08:18.360 After the hurricane, the condition worsened because of the loss of vegetation in the channel and also sedimentation from other areas, trash, et cetera.
00:08:27.760 And our communities, obviously, one year after the hurricane, we still have a lot of houses without a permanent roof.
00:08:33.740 So one of the things that we had to do because we saw that a lot of the families applied for assistance and got denied due to various issues that we can discuss on the call, we had to just develop an initiative called From Tarps to Roots.
00:08:48.780 And through this initiative, which is 100% donation-based, the G8, which is the group of the eight communities surrounding the Caño Martín Peña, and it's a non-profit organization that encompasses over 12 community-based organizations in our communities, they, through donations, implemented this project to identify families in critical conditions without a roof and construct a proper, permanent, using traditional materials.
00:09:15.340 With this initiative, we've already completed 72 groups, and it's on a rolling basis.
00:09:20.560 As soon as the GIT keeps continuing to receive donations, then they're going to keep continuing building groups.
00:09:26.760 But definitely the conditions here have been worsened by the hurricane.
00:09:31.200 And what we're trying to do is work towards a long-term recovery, just an equitable recovery in our communities,
00:09:39.160 through all of these funds that have been assigned for Puerto Rico
00:09:43.440 as part of the disaster recovery funding opportunities.
00:09:47.600 Wow. It's so complex.
00:09:50.720 And I'm really appreciative that you're breaking it down for us.
00:09:54.440 And I was reading that over 20,000 residents live around the Caño Martín Pena
00:10:01.920 and have long lived amongst waste and debris and sediment.
00:10:06.300 and in fact over 3 000 structures in puerto rico discharge raw sewage into the channel
00:10:12.780 and this surplus of sediment and water clogs the channel leaving the water stagnant and because of
00:10:19.180 this residents who live around the channel have higher rates of gastrointestinal diseases and
00:10:23.800 children frequently develop skin and conditions and asthma so i'm wondering if you could share
00:10:29.140 with us what residents of the g8 have historically dealt with and how have such conditions magnified
00:10:34.500 under storms like Maria? So as you was mentioning, these communities have a lot of public health
00:10:39.200 stressors that are directly related to the conditions in which they are living. So you
00:10:44.740 mentioned very well, we have a lot of communities here, almost half of our communities, out of the
00:10:50.240 eight communities, lack of proper sanitary system. And the stormwater system is obsolete because it's
00:10:56.180 carrying all these combined waters. So obviously there's a lot of issues affecting them. But you
00:11:02.100 also mention something important. These are communities that were established in the 30s
00:11:06.920 through an informal settlement process. So just to go a little bit back, in the 30s, Puerto Rico
00:11:12.240 suffered two hurricanes. And in addition to that, it was passing through an economic depression.
00:11:18.480 Oh, it sounds very similar to what is happening right now. In that time, most of the economy in
00:11:23.860 Puerto Rico was agricultural economy, farming economy, but a lot of the land were from the U.S.
00:11:30.480 mainland. So when the hurricanes hit and the economy dropped, a lot of these landowners from
00:11:36.140 the States, they went back, left a lot of families that were the ones working the land without jobs
00:11:41.500 opportunities in the rural areas of Puerto Rico. So there was a migration process from the rural
00:11:46.460 areas of Puerto Rico all the way into the city. Once these families came to the city looking for
00:11:51.840 better job opportunities and a better quality of life, they didn't find accessible housing.
00:11:56.640 So they started filling the wetland and filling the Caño Martín Peña.
00:12:01.120 As you may imagine, since a lot of these houses were constructed by their own families, well, a lot of them lacked connection to the sanitary system.
00:12:09.700 And that informal settlement process also caused the Caño to lose its width and its depth and has resulted in the different conditions that you just explained and mentioned.
00:12:20.740 So what the communities are doing.
00:12:22.800 Well, the first thing that the communities worked on was organizing themselves in the 90s.
00:12:27.760 So all of the communities here have a community board comprised of community president and vice president.
00:12:32.940 And all of those community boards and including other community organizations forms what is known as the G8.
00:12:39.120 And the G8 and the leadership created legislation for the implementations of the projects needed to address all of these issues that they are facing.
00:12:46.940 And that's why in 2004, through the Puerto Rico LAT 24 or 489 of September 2004,
00:12:55.200 Anelase is created as a public corporation in charge of implementing all the projects needed to revitalize the communities,
00:13:01.980 including dredging and channelization of the channel, but also infrastructure projects, housing and social and economic development programs.
00:13:10.700 And all of these projects were actually incorporated in the development plan that was designed and developed with the communities, doing over 700 community activities that were performing the communities in order to just design this comprehensive development plan.
00:13:27.480 So our responsibility is to implement all the projects included in this plan.
00:13:31.920 But in addition to that, the same law that creates a LACE also creates a community land trust.
00:13:38.340 Why is it so important and why is it so relevant, the land trust, specifically now that we're
00:13:43.280 talking about disaster recovery?
00:13:45.440 Well, the land trust is the mechanism by which we prevent gentrification of the area.
00:13:51.880 And gentrification may occur as an unintended consequence or intended consequence of all
00:13:57.960 of the projects needed to revitalize the area.
00:14:01.040 So through the land trust, what we're doing is that we are providing opportunities for 0.98
00:14:06.640 any family that needs to be relocated in our communities because they're living in the
00:14:10.760 footprint of any of the projects that are contained in the Comprehensive Development Plan.
00:14:15.100 We're providing to them opportunities to relocate within their own communities, respecting
00:14:18.880 community cohesion and respecting the historical permanence of this.
00:14:23.160 And this is critical for us because it will be very easy
00:14:26.860 to make all of these projects that are needed to revitalize the communities,
00:14:30.880 displacing them, just saying to them, you have to move out because we're going to
00:14:34.720 this channel you have to move out because we're going to have big same infrastructure and then
00:14:40.540 you move all these displays all these families and after you fix the problem what usually happens
00:14:45.080 is that you have other residents coming in with a higher income profile and the residents that
00:14:50.500 were historically living there are not the ones benefiting from that result that's why it was so
00:14:54.260 good for us to create a language for us and it also took a lot of community engagement discuss
00:15:00.380 us different ideas, like having a cooperative, but they just decided on having a land trust.
00:15:05.480 And having a land trust was also important because a lot of the families in our district
00:15:09.720 were living in lands that were owned by different public agencies. So it would be very easy if they
00:15:17.380 used to be owned by the government agencies for the government to say you have to move because
00:15:21.340 you're living in lands owned by the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. So what happens with the land
00:15:25.400 trust is that all of those lands that were owned by the public agencies were transferred to the
00:15:31.440 land trust. So we're giving protections to families that otherwise would have in their land.
00:15:38.460 So that's why it's also important talking about the land trust. So the committees created all of
00:15:44.080 these institutions in order to fix their problems and address all the issues. So one of the main
00:15:49.940 components obviously is opening the channel. We need to open the channel because we need to restore
00:15:54.700 that title connection and we have to alleviate the flood risk faced by our communities. That
00:16:01.000 component of the project, we've worked for years with the core engineers because it's under their
00:16:06.360 jurisdiction. It was a project that was actually authorized by Congress in 2007, but that
00:16:11.540 authorization was subject to the, or conditioned to the approval of a facility report that in
00:16:16.680 last day prepared and submitted to the core engineers for approval. And right now we're
00:16:21.880 the design stage of this project. But a project can be in the design phase for years or decades
00:16:27.280 even. What we want to do is try to cure funding in this critical moment, either disaster recovery
00:16:34.620 fundings or traditional funding to move forward this project from designing to construction and
00:16:40.040 begin finally dredging the channel. But in addition to dredging the channel, there's also
00:16:44.600 the other infrastructure and housing components that we work on. And we've already relocated
00:16:49.900 over 200 families that were living in the margins of the channel. Most of these families have
00:16:55.580 decided to stay in their communities within lands of the land trust, which is good for us.
00:17:01.400 We've already done a lot of infrastructure. Half of the infrastructure projects needed for this
00:17:05.460 project have been completed, but we have five more that are very, very critical and that would
00:17:09.840 connect all of the families that are currently not connected to a sanitary system into a sanitary
00:17:14.580 system and will provide proper stormwater system. So there's things that have been done, but there's
00:17:20.660 things that need to be done. And that's only the technical aspect. But then because there are also
00:17:25.340 social programs that have been implemented along with the GA to address other social issues. So we
00:17:31.000 have an adult literacy program. We have environmental awareness programs in the elementary and high
00:17:36.860 school in our communities. We also have community gardens. We also have a community-based enterprise
00:17:42.680 incubator, and we have
00:17:44.640 Jupyters in Action, which is a
00:17:46.600 non-profit comprised of young
00:17:48.640 people who are very active and vocal
00:17:50.880 and they're also, you know, fighting for their rights
00:17:53.080 and for the project. So there's
00:17:54.760 also a lot of others, over 30
00:17:56.720 other social programs and projects
00:17:58.700 that are part of the Enlasa project and
00:18:00.220 were created with the communities
00:18:03.020 as a mechanism to address
00:18:04.900 all the issues that they're facing.
00:18:12.680 hey for the wild community ayana here as appreciative as we are of the sponsorships
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00:19:54.680 our website at forthewild.world slash donate. All right. Thanks so much for listening.
00:20:01.660 Now let's get back to the interview.
00:20:09.280 You know, I have a question about the relationship between Puerto Rico and the United States,
00:20:17.040 because, you know, Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens, although they can't vote in presidential
00:20:22.200 elections and they only send one non-voting representative to Washington. So while America's
00:20:29.700 colonial power has long withheld the island's sovereignty, Puerto Rico is virtually absent
00:20:34.500 from the American imagination, with a recent poll stating that only 54% of Americans are even aware
00:20:41.820 that Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens. So I'm wondering if you could speak to how U.S. imperialism
00:20:48.480 has long exploited Puerto Rico's land and people. And then maybe a second part to that question is,
00:20:53.980 I imagine that there, you know, of course must be a spectrum of varying opinions, but
00:20:57.660 I would be interested to hear some of the common feelings Puerto Ricans harbor towards the U.S.
00:21:03.820 Do people on the island identify as Americans and is there any desire to become a state or
00:21:09.580 is there a greater consensus towards wanting complete sovereignty?
00:21:13.980 Well, that's a very good question and a very complex one.
00:21:17.200 From the first point, definitely the relationship between Puerto Rico and the U.S. and the lack of voting representation hurts us in a sense that, obviously, we have to work harder to get the attention of, you know, federal government or other entities or institutions in the United States, which in some part, after the European, we've gotten more attention.
00:21:39.120 But still, you know, it's a very difficult situation when you have to almost identify what mechanisms can work, recognizing that you have no voting power.
00:21:50.500 So it definitely affects everything from allocation of funds to priorities and type of assistance received.
00:21:58.260 So it's something that basically impermanates through every aspect of the Puerto Rican life.
00:22:04.960 And it makes it harder for us to be able to go to the states and justify the needs of all the communities in Puerto Rico when you have 4 million people living here, but that doesn't translate into voting.
00:22:18.980 And unfortunately for a lot of things, voting is like a currency.
00:22:22.880 So it's definitely hurting us.
00:22:25.300 And knowing that we're not in the loophole of not only the politicians, but also the people in the U.S., it's also hurting because there's so many issues that happen in the island and issues that were prior to Hurricane Maria, like the economic crisis in Puerto Rico, but also issues that have arisen from the hurricane after Hurricane Maria.
00:22:46.580 And not necessarily that's in the minds of the majority of the people living in the States.
00:22:53.500 And a reason can be because of that relationship and the status of Puerto Rico as a U.S. territory.
00:22:59.420 So regarding the second question, how do people feel?
00:23:02.040 Well, there are very polarizing questions.
00:23:04.020 You can have everything in this country from people that are very in favor of statehood,
00:23:09.340 people that are very in favor of independence,
00:23:12.020 or there are people that are also just in favor of the status quo
00:23:16.060 and remaining as a non-incorporated U.S. territory of the United States.
00:23:20.500 And depending on who you ask, you're going to receive a different answer.
00:23:24.280 And you can't have even family members, which happens a lot.
00:23:27.560 In the same family, like different family members having different opinions on the subject.
00:23:32.720 But I think that's something that was highlighted after the hurricane was that, you know what?
00:23:37.780 it's unfortunate that we can't depend on the government
00:23:41.000 during this type of emergencies
00:23:42.460 because like the residents were saying
00:23:45.080 we didn't see them come here
00:23:46.400 but we have to do this by ourselves
00:23:48.120 so there's also this mentality of self-management
00:23:51.040 so regardless of the political status
00:23:53.560 even when it hurts us
00:23:55.140 people are just going to fight for their teams
00:23:57.700 and organize themselves and move everything
00:23:59.900 we've had this year not in the canyon
00:24:03.140 but in other areas of Puerto Rico
00:24:04.460 that for months they didn't see nobody
00:24:06.680 from the either local or federal government visit them.
00:24:10.400 They were without power, without water, without access to roads,
00:24:15.220 and they just had to do everything by themselves.
00:24:18.260 It shouldn't be like that because that's why we have agencies for,
00:24:21.960 and that's why there's millions and millions and dollars that, you know,
00:24:24.500 people paying taxes for.
00:24:26.520 But that's been basically the experience of Puerto Ricans. 1.00
00:24:29.440 They're not paying attention or they're not paying enough attention to us, 1.00
00:24:34.020 So we'll have to do this by ourselves or find ways in which we can provide immediate belief and design long-term recovery efforts. That's at least my perception of this issue.
00:24:46.040 It's so horrifying to hear this lack of care and respect and integrity by agencies, especially when people are suffering, when people have just lost everything and they just need the bare necessities to continue on and they're even denied that.
00:25:05.320 And I think that's something that also we think about it on a political voting level, but it's also the difference in the cultural differences in Puerto Rico and the context of Puerto Rico.
00:25:16.780 We're very different from the rest of the states.
00:25:19.780 Even our language, our main language is Spanish.
00:25:23.280 So it not only affects us in terms of representation, but also in the aid.
00:25:28.560 And I have to recognize, I've been working with FEMA staff, at least in the county communities.
00:25:32.820 They've been very accessible, available, and I think that they also want to help but don't know.
00:25:37.840 Maybe at the beginning, just we're trying to assess how they can work it out.
00:25:42.280 In our communities, at least they've been managing to the leadership and coordinating, but it was not easy.
00:25:48.480 First, we had to reach out to them, et cetera.
00:25:50.680 But some issues that we've identified that has to do also with that situation of Puerto Rico being such a complex and different place and the states and the states not having that in mind.
00:26:01.380 It's anything from applying process, application process for federal assistance.
00:26:06.360 The language use, if it's not English, then it's a very technical Spanish, so there are language barriers.
00:26:12.920 In our communities, for example, the first groups that came from FEMA or the foreign engineers mostly were from the U.S., so they didn't speak the language.
00:26:21.100 We've had cases of families that received inspectors that were only English speakers.
00:26:26.280 And obviously, that family didn't get the help that they needed because they were unable to communicate with the person inspecting the property who has the determination whether that family will receive or not assistance.
00:26:38.220 But in addition to that, it's everything else.
00:26:41.020 You know, land titling has been an issue for us because Puerto Rico has a very different way of doing transactions for buying and selling houses, especially in low-income communities.
00:26:53.560 So it's a big part.
00:26:54.800 We have a civil code in addition to common laws.
00:26:57.500 Our laws and regulations are very different from the states, are very similar to the Louisiana
00:27:02.680 situation.
00:27:03.920 So when the agencies come here and they're asking families for land titles in order to
00:27:08.640 give them aid, well, that it's a concern because a lot of people don't have land titles or
00:27:13.220 they do like verbal agreements or just they have a house that has been passed on to them
00:27:18.260 by generations, and that bars a lot of families, especially families living in low-income areas,
00:27:24.180 from accessing federal assistance because it lacks a recognition of the way in which Puerto Ricans
00:27:30.680 do transactions like buying and selling houses and the way property rights work in Puerto Rico
00:27:36.640 and how it differs from the states. So there's other things that need to be taken into consideration,
00:27:43.800 And there's other things that just evidence how, you know, the situation between U.S. and Puerto Rico affects the way in which federal aid is being given to the communities.
00:27:55.660 But in addition to that, there are also other concerns, and not only federal level, but also local level, and more local level.
00:28:03.480 And it's a concern that has to do with how do we invest all of these millions and millions of funds that the U.S. Congress has allocated for disaster recovery in the island.
00:28:14.700 And what does concern us?
00:28:17.360 Basically, we are concerned how the policies that are being drafted right now surrounding
00:28:23.880 the use of these recovery funds can result, maybe as an unintended consequence of these
00:28:29.640 policies, can result in the displacement of low-income communities.
00:28:35.260 And I explain why.
00:28:36.560 Basically, Puerto Rico has to work in different plans, which establish the way in which the
00:28:42.780 government is going to be investing all of the funds that they receive from the federal
00:28:47.120 government in disaster recovery projects. And as part of these plans, there are some plans
00:28:52.120 about the use of funds that has been allocated to the Department of Housing. And these are funds
00:28:57.480 that are part of the Community Block Development Grant for Disaster Recovery, or we call it CDBGDR.
00:29:03.820 So these funds, they have also a plan that's called Action Plan. And some of the things that
00:29:09.120 are included in the Action Plan is how funds assigned through this CDBGDR program can't be
00:29:15.780 use in high flood risk areas. So this for us is very damaging for communities because a lot of
00:29:23.780 communities in Puerto Rico are located precisely in flood risk areas. So if you are not giving
00:29:30.500 them access to these funds, you're basically telling them, well, you have to move because
00:29:34.220 you have no money to rebuild your house or do any project that's needed to reduce your
00:29:38.440 vulnerability. And our position is that a lot of these communities in flood plain or
00:29:44.140 flood risk areas have flood risk not only because, you know, climate change, but also
00:29:51.020 because they're not in a position to be able to mitigate and adapt to these events because
00:29:56.320 they lack proper infrastructure, they are close to a water body that's blocked, or any
00:30:02.320 other type of issues.
00:30:03.380 And it's our position that these funds can be used to invest strategically in the community
00:30:10.520 through a community participation process in order to these communities located in flood risk areas
00:30:17.500 or flood plain be able to reconstruct and do all of the projects needed to put them in a better
00:30:24.540 position to mitigate and adapt future climate events. For example, give money to them to
00:30:30.660 elevate the houses a few feet above the flood plain, invest in infrastructure projects that
00:30:37.040 are also needed to alleviate the flood problems in communities, you name it.
00:30:41.640 So it's important for us that all of the recovery funds are invested in an SOG way,
00:30:48.280 but taking into consideration the historic permanence of communities and the community
00:30:52.640 cohesion and involving the communities in this process of designing how the funds are
00:30:58.440 going to be used, determining which projects are going to be projects for long-term recovery
00:31:02.520 your project and also let them lead the way for their own recovery yeah so many times when i
00:31:09.340 explained well yeah no you did and it's it's complex and i think about so many other conversations
00:31:15.300 i've had with community organizers and leaders and so much of the time what is being said honestly
00:31:21.640 all the time what is being said is let the communities lead themselves communities need
00:31:27.080 sovereignty. It doesn't make sense for some foreign aid agency or some outside funder or
00:31:35.120 basically anybody who's outside the community to come in and tell the community what money needs
00:31:41.140 to be spent on. The community on the ground knows the issues the best. They're living them. It's
00:31:46.700 lived experience for these communities. They need to have control and autonomy on how they recover
00:31:53.160 from these disasters and how they're able to use the money. And I'm with you. I mean,
00:31:59.380 I think it's just a rot system. Yeah. I mean, you definitely explained it and it's really
00:32:06.340 challenging to understand and to get that across. And so I'm definitely thinking about
00:32:12.280 this global foreign aid complex and just so many institutions have origins tied to political and
00:32:19.960 military agendas. And so it's pointing to imperialistic powers wanting access to land
00:32:24.820 and people that are easily exploitable. For example, a US shipment of rice following the
00:32:30.700 2010 earthquake in Haiti arrived timely as the country's harvest season was beginning.
00:32:36.040 And so this flood of cheap rice totally shattered the local food economy. And one could argue that
00:32:41.540 this was actually a strategic ploy to pull Haiti into a greater reliance on corporate food.
00:32:46.960 So I'm curious what your opinion is on global aid initiatives in this way.
00:32:51.760 I know you've been talking about what this aid could actually be, how it could be helpful.
00:32:58.560 But yeah, I guess I'm just wondering, do you think it's possible for foreign aid to ever be carried out with integrity in the context of global capitalism?
00:33:05.660 Well, at least in our community, we've had the fortune that every aid that has been either from the local or federal government or from private nonprofit or institutional universities, et cetera, they've been very respectful of the social dynamics in our communities.
00:33:23.820 But it's also because we've made them be respectful of that.
00:33:28.580 And they've done it in a way which they respect that everything that we do here is first and foremost led by the communities.
00:33:35.660 and involving the communities in the decision-making processes.
00:33:39.040 So, actually, we've seen over 100 allies and collaborators
00:33:42.560 that provided direct relief, even cash to families,
00:33:47.800 food, goods, you name it, volunteers.
00:33:50.820 And I think that the good thing is that since all of them
00:33:53.940 have reached out to us first,
00:33:55.780 and then we've been the ones engaging them
00:33:57.780 in this community participation process
00:33:59.440 so that they learn how to do things here,
00:34:01.860 it's been a very positive experience.
00:34:03.660 And I think that it's because you also sit them down at the table with the leaders and that you have the leaders explain to them that, hey, you may have this idea on what recovery should look like, but this is how it's going to work here because we live here.
00:34:18.520 We know what are the needs and how we can mitigate that.
00:34:22.520 So you just can come to the table with us, but not having this savior complex like some people call it.
00:34:28.740 So at least in our communities, we've had that positive experience with our staff and collaborators that respect how important for us it is to have the communities engaged and participating in all of these decision-making processes and long-term recovery efforts.
00:34:44.680 In other communities, it's definitely an issue.
00:34:48.000 You know, if you're not organized, it's going to be very easy now for anybody to displace you.
00:34:52.920 I mean, if you don't have access to funds, if you are a family living in a floodplain
00:34:56.920 area, for example, a low-income family, not in the county, in other communities, and FEMA
00:35:03.020 denied your application because you don't have a land title, for example, you have no
00:35:08.180 money to rebuild your house, and your house is damaged, what you're going to do, you're
00:35:11.860 going to move.
00:35:12.780 And then if that land is located close to unvaluable visitors, you can have people coming
00:35:17.900 from outside buying the land at a really low cost and then gentrifying the area.
00:35:22.920 So gentrification and displacement are very, has been very present in our communities, but it's now getting even more prevalent after the hurricane because there's so many families that don't have the means to fix their houses and are going to have to abandon their communities and leave all that valuable land accessible for all these other developers.
00:35:43.700 That's why the land trust here in the Caño has been so essential because through the land trust, we're preventing that from happening here.
00:35:51.020 But this is the only community land trust in Puerto Rico.
00:35:53.540 So we have other tens and hundreds of other communities that are going to be facing these issues.
00:35:58.620 And, you know, it's very important to now more than ever organize all these communities and engage them in all of these conversations that are happening regarding funds, recovery, et cetera,
00:36:08.700 so that they are able to withhold any displacement or gentrification risk that they may face.
00:36:16.500 Yeah, yeah. I mean, the property ownership and the legality surrounding in Puerto Rico,
00:36:23.580 it stems from the Spanish colonial rule and custom.
00:36:27.260 There are inheritance customs where ownership is informally agreed upon.
00:36:31.220 And then many homes are built without permits on private farmlands or government land.
00:36:36.220 and the Puerto Rican government only requires a deed if one has a mortgage or a condo.
00:36:42.300 So these concepts clash with FEMA requirements, and we should note that many say that FEMA has
00:36:47.660 applied these requirements more strictly after Maria. Regardless, over 300,000 FEMA applicants
00:36:53.860 have been denied. So I'm wondering what are the intricacies between this disaster release FEMA
00:36:59.380 and the reality of property ownership in Puerto Rico? And even further, if we are to think about
00:37:04.840 disaster relief and the concept of Puerto Rico's economic crisis, or as a form of neocolonialism?
00:37:11.120 You know, how is it working within communities who are in various phases of rebuilding and
00:37:15.360 self-determined renewal?
00:37:16.840 It's the responsibility of the agencies to recognize the property rights system in Puerto
00:37:23.660 Rico and to change policies to adjust them for Puerto Ricans, recognizing this distinction
00:37:31.560 between the federal regulations and laws and the local laws and regulations regarding property
00:37:36.700 rights. And I think that they realized this after having all of these issues months after the
00:37:42.300 hurricane. Unfortunately, that means that thousands and thousands of families probably got denied
00:37:47.560 because they didn't comply with the federal housing requirements, you know, ownership,
00:37:53.040 property ownership requirements. So we've had the help of different organizations like Hurricane
00:37:59.200 Ayuda Legal Huracán María, composed of legal lawyers or attorneys or law students.
00:38:07.440 And they already knew that this was going to happen in Puerto Rico because they learned
00:38:11.120 from Luciana that has similar programs because they also have a civil code in their jurisdiction.
00:38:18.560 And, for example, in our communities, we had affidavits, you know, and we helped the families
00:38:23.360 sign these affidavits in which they basically state that they are legal occupants of the
00:38:28.920 structure that they live in so that they have access to federal fundings. But this is a wider
00:38:34.400 issue and this definitely, it affects all of Puerto Rico. So it's very important for the agencies to
00:38:41.020 recognize this and change their policies to adapt it to the realities of Puerto Ricans. In terms of
00:38:47.340 communities, there's not much you can do when you, you know, you've been living in this house for 30,
00:38:51.960 40 years and, you know, your mother just died and gave it to you. So you don't, it's not alive to be
00:38:57.060 able to do any type of there's no will there's no no way for you to do any type of contract
00:39:01.160 so it's very limited what residents can do and they're also dealing already with the day-to-day
00:39:06.380 challenges especially if you're living in a house that suffer damages as a result of Hurricane Maria
00:39:11.540 but community organizations can be key on sitting at the table with FEMA with HUD with all of these
00:39:19.760 agencies in charge of this funding and you know raise these issues and make them take these issues
00:39:26.540 into consideration as part of their longer-term recovery efforts.
00:39:30.700 But it's definitely a huge issue that concerns us,
00:39:34.600 and I think that there's a need to stick down with these agencies,
00:39:38.640 which we have already done and we've already provided to them, you know,
00:39:42.780 how this is a concern, why this is a concern, and what can be done.
00:39:47.360 So what can the agency do to alleviate these issues
00:39:50.780 so that families get access to the funding?
00:39:53.280 But it's very important that, you know, all organizations are able to be able to sit down and also raise the same issues.
00:40:00.640 But it's definitely something that affects us.
00:40:02.900 And the reason why thousands of families right now are living in houses that have no roof, that maybe have no windows, that are completely damaged because they have no access to the funds that are allocated for that same purposes.
00:40:23.280 Thank you.
00:40:53.280 Estrella, I'm so grateful that you are so invested in this work and have so much integrity
00:41:14.720 and ethics and are fighting for communities that not only, like I was saying earlier,
00:41:21.720 have been hit by these natural disasters, but with all the complications of foreign aid and
00:41:28.620 neocolonialism, it's really a topic that is not addressed enough in the United States. This is
00:41:35.920 something that gets swept under the rug. And as my last question for you in this conversation,
00:41:42.760 I'm thinking about what are some action steps that allies can do to support the people of
00:41:51.200 Puerto Rico and the communities that you work with. We're really trying to focus on tangible
00:41:56.500 action steps that we can get involved in because I know that when we're dealing with so much
00:42:02.460 globally and the overwhelm is real, I really feel like an antidote to that overwhelm is creativity
00:42:08.220 and getting involved so that we can actually know that we are doing something more than just
00:42:14.240 sharing something on social media. Although I think that there is value in that, I'm really
00:42:19.300 interested in how do we go beyond that? How do we go beyond headline culture? And so it's not
00:42:24.260 just something where we see something happening in Puerto Rico through our phones on Instagram
00:42:29.300 or Facebook or Twitter, but then we forget about it the next day or the next day because
00:42:34.280 another disaster has hit us. I really want to hear from you. What are these action steps that
00:42:40.260 us as allies can take that aren't in Puerto Rico, or maybe some of us are, to support the people on
00:42:45.980 the ground and the frontline communities.
00:42:48.740 Sure.
00:42:49.420 I appreciate you giving us this opportunity to just talk about cultural action items.
00:42:54.620 In regards to our communities in the Caño, we still have the CARPS to Roops initiative.
00:43:00.560 So if you're interested in supporting this initiative through donations or any other
00:43:04.940 type of support that they may think of, they can contact us at 787-729-1594.
00:43:13.940 That's our office number, and that way you can either support that Tarps to Roofs initiative or learn about other programs that we're conducting right now that may need some additional resources.
00:43:24.880 For the rest of the island, I think that it's very important for people that don't know about Puerto Rico, that want to help, to reach out to community-based organizations on the ground.
00:43:35.100 And you can very easily look for them on the Internet or even call us at Enlace and I can provide a list of different organizations that come up in my mind.
00:43:46.060 But it's important that the first step is to contact the communities directly through these organizations just to know what their needs are.
00:43:54.200 Because sometimes people want to help.
00:43:56.140 The idea of helping is, OK, I'll just buy hundreds of bottles of water and hundreds of mosquitoes, which may be very helpful.
00:44:03.840 they are, but maybe that's not what the community needs.
00:44:07.180 So each community has different needs.
00:44:09.800 There are many, many organizations like Taller Salud y Loiza, Casa Pueblo y Adjuntas, Estuario
00:44:16.340 de la Vida de San Juan.
00:44:17.040 So there's so many organizations doing on the ground work in Puerto Rico that it's just
00:44:21.600 a matter of contacting them first, know what their needs are, and work together with them
00:44:26.800 to see how you can support them based on their needs and engaging the residents of the communities.
00:44:30.880 Well, thank you, Estrella. We will definitely take that into our hearts and our minds and our
00:44:38.160 hands and our tangible action steps and share this with the community. And yeah, I'm so grateful
00:44:46.160 that you are who you are and you're holding this down for all of us because I think it's also
00:44:51.440 really important to know that at some point, we will probably all be facing some type of
00:45:00.880 This disaster where we live, whether we're in Puerto Rico, whether we're in California, look at what's happening with the fires right now. Nobody is immune to this, but we need to support the communities who are suffering from this right now. Because one, I think it helps us know that we're there for each other. And we can, on a grassroots level, support one another.
00:45:22.120 I think it also teaches us preparedness no matter where we are in the world. And I know we have
00:45:27.560 listeners all over the world that are listening to the lessons you've been learning. And these
00:45:32.900 are important for all of us. And it's important for us to support the people that are suffering
00:45:38.600 on the front lines from these issues and know that nobody is immune and we all really need to
00:45:44.480 come together and learn from one another and be there for one another. And so I appreciate you
00:45:50.600 And thank you so much for this conversation today.
00:45:53.620 I appreciate the space.
00:45:55.660 And as you were saying, you know, first, we are so many communities facing different disasters
00:46:01.340 or issues, but at the heart of it, we are communities that are facing similar challenges.
00:46:07.360 So by coming together, we build a stronger core and, you know, we raise much more voices.
00:46:15.080 So if anybody's interested in learning more about the place that we are carrying out here
00:46:19.560 or the situation in Puerto Rico, feel free to contact me at that telephone number.
00:46:24.320 And I, once again, I appreciate giving us the space and, you know, your kind words
00:46:28.720 as well as all the information that you already provided in complement of the information
00:46:33.780 that I provided.
00:46:34.640 So thank you so much, Ayanna.
00:46:36.620 Thank you, Estrella.
00:46:49.560 Thanks for listening to another episode of For the Wild Podcast.
00:46:55.120 I'm Carter-Lou McElroy, and the music you heard today was from Los Hombres Calientes.
00:47:00.760 I'd like to thank our host and founder, Ayanna Young, as well as the rest of our podcast production team.
00:47:07.460 Aidan McRae, Andrew Storrs, Erica Ekrem, Aaron Wise, Francesca Glassbell, Hannah Wilton, and Melanie Younger.
00:47:19.560 If you enjoyed today's conversation, please rate us on iTunes or wherever else you get your podcast.
00:47:26.800 If you'd like to stay up to date with our projects and offerings, subscribe to our newsletter by visiting forthewild.world slash subscribe.
00:47:49.560 I'll see you next time.