00:03:01.260but maybe there will be an element i wanted to bring this up anyway now seems like a good time
00:03:09.440of mask making as wearable art do you foresee that as a future yes yes here's here's my0.69
00:03:19.680for those listeners who are listening fayette has made a little face on a mask out of sequins
00:03:27.120and buttons go gentlemen so you're you're already getting into this uh aspect of wearable art
00:03:35.760oh my god they're all decorating masks yeah i've i've got you know they keep sending them to me
00:03:41.520i've got so many you know really my friends are fabric collectors i have a lot of wearable art
00:03:48.240artist friends and my friend gina has uh she she collects fabric and she has this beautiful
00:03:55.840bark cloth and linen from the 40s and 50s and right so she's making them and she just can't
00:04:01.680make them fast enough she's selling them out like crazy before she has an etsy shop and you know
00:04:07.760they're going up on etsy and boom out the door because they're so cool they're so cool and so
00:04:13.680practical so what what do you think i mean that's a function of what's the function of wearable art
00:04:22.400in say 1970 because the mainstream was so far it was so far away we were not connected we never
00:04:32.480went to a department store you know macy's did not exist for us next this day pause gone you
00:04:41.600know we never even watched we didn't have a tv there was nothing you know we were on a parallel
00:04:47.120world we had our own world so of course we had to all make our own clothes everybody had a sewing
00:04:52.000machine every commune house had a sewing machine and there were different looks you know that that
00:05:00.560came about there was like the gypsy there was the gypsy hippie look and um so there was the glam
00:05:09.680look i mean the glam thing came out of the glam look you know so that was that was our style of0.88
00:05:17.200freak was very high glam very bright colors you know as the tribes evolved like the the early
00:05:25.680tribe was very nature very organic created the organic food movement and organic farming and
00:05:32.880by the time we came along we were sort of the second generation that came along in the late 60s
00:05:38.320and um 68 was kind of when that transition happened because the uh the early tribes they
00:05:47.480all moved to the country and they created like peter coyote had a lima and it was a back to the
00:05:53.840earth they didn't even have they only had cold water i mean you have no idea they were like
00:05:59.180pioneers it was very but he loved the cockettes and we used to go see him at a lima because he
00:06:05.240was into the same things we were except he was like digging in the dirt you know so they were
00:06:12.520very and also um the wild west victoriana and american indian all of that became very prominent
00:06:21.000in in san francisco so people were in into like buckskin vests and the fringe of course0.54
00:06:28.280and leather and and leather and lace that kind of thing and the girls had all long skirts and
00:06:35.240So, but then when they were safely put away in the country, I remember one time, one night, I was at Winterland and I was totally cock it out.
00:06:46.560And I ran into the people that I met when I first got there that were part of the family dog, the big brother family.
00:23:27.860So but in the early 60s, I think it was even in 62, it became one of the earliest communes
00:23:33.720in the city for this theater group called the Calliope Company.
00:23:37.620And then it just became like a rotating group of communes and different people.
00:23:42.380So when I got there in 68, the family dog was in there.
00:23:46.620And Martoon lived in the tower, right, because he was the magician.
00:23:52.200And I could understand why, because, I mean, I've been in that house a lot, because Jimmy's,
00:24:01.140I always stay there now when I go there.
00:24:04.420And if you get high enough, you can definitely see the ghost.
00:24:07.620I'm sure, because there's a whole tarot deck that you're laying out here.
00:24:12.000got the tower you've got the magician surely the arcana is well represented there right yeah and
00:24:21.940at the time he was doing so the tower is very high and and has a peaked roof that uh where inside the
00:24:29.660tower you can see the inside of the roof i mean it's just fabulous still but i mean now it's just
00:24:35.780gorgeous so he did these paintings and they were in the corners they were tall and narrow and they
00:24:41.240were the seven deadly sins and then he had a giant altar so uh on the the top floor of the house then
00:24:49.040there's a little staircase that goes up to the i mean the whole house is totally magical and
00:24:54.300everybody had altars i mean the family dog was deep they were really deep and they were way into
00:24:59.480the magic so he had a curtain like a black satin curtain that had a white pentagram but they were
00:25:05.480into white magic it was all about white magic so he had a white pentagram and to go up you had to
00:25:11.640part the pentagram and go up the stairs and then the first thing you saw was this gigantic altar
00:25:17.960that he had with i mean you know they were collectors too i mean everybody that was into
00:25:23.960psychedelics was into symbology iconography objet you know so everybody was wildly collecting and
00:25:35.000making altars and vignettes and you know i mean really that was huge and anybody who was who was
00:25:42.840born into that was rebirthed into that still i mean you know we all yeah mad collectors
00:25:50.920so but then when you there was no place to sit there was only the bed
00:25:56.920so the altar and then the bed it was a huge bed and you you had to get on the bed
00:26:03.640and that was yeah and so you lay on the bed and then you had this view of the entire city it was
00:26:09.800fabulous yeah so he would summon you because i i at that point when i got to the city in 68 i was
00:26:16.440staying on noe street with two other people that were one of them was the the family dog dealer
00:26:23.320you know and uh her name was paula and then patty cakes and so then i you know nancy said here this
00:26:30.760is where you're gonna live you know so so i moved in there and so one night martoon you know send
00:26:37.800fayette over and so it's like it's like it's fabulous yeah it was great that's amazing and
00:26:50.200such a fully functioning alternate society that was operating on a whole other level with a whole
00:26:56.840other set of societal uh you know situations and ways of living it was yeah it was divine to say
00:27:07.860the least and i i mean for me personally i i feel like psychedelics were like an important part of
00:27:14.840my journey but i also hesitate to recommend psychedelics i think psychedelics is the only
00:27:23.640thing that's going to save us thank you i'm going to let you recommend psychedelics can you get into
00:27:28.980that a little bit more oh yeah no once you really are rebirth through psychedelics you understand
00:27:36.840your position in the universe you understand how what your real job in the universe is to
00:27:44.640expand the universe your responsibility is to expand the universe in a positive way
00:27:50.980and everybody understood these things and the more journeys the psychedelic journeys everything
00:27:57.380it was a teaching lesson so anybody and we all did it we did it together we would have to do it
00:28:03.580two together or a group of us and we would plan it I mean it wasn't you know there there were some
00:28:10.180people that were taking it every day you weren't supposed to do that I mean uh and they they kind
00:28:15.540of went off track but um most everybody would really like today we're going to have a trip and
00:28:23.580we're going to go to mount tam and we planned it you know and we would have all the the necessary
00:28:28.780things that you would need you would need some tea you know you would need uh fruit you know
00:28:36.780these are the kind of things that you were drawn to eat you didn't want to eat a hamburger for god's
00:28:41.160No. Yeah. I mean, my feeling is that psychedelics will replace the kind of rituals that we have now that have become meaningless.
00:28:54.400And I mean, I don't want to insult anyone, but things like confirmation, you know, in the Catholic religion, you have confirmation and you have bar mitzvahs and bat mitzvahs.
00:29:06.400And, you know, I don't know what other, but those, those, I think will be, I think this is the only possible future because everybody needs like a, a jumpstart enlightenment here, you know?
00:29:18.700Yeah. The coming of age ceremony will be done with psychedelics as well.
00:29:23.840Psychedelics and, and, and have leaders and you would prepare for it. And then that's how you initiate the child into a proper adulthood on earth.
00:29:33.880you know I mean here you are this is your universe now get into it that I'm sorry I just need to
00:29:41.400repeat that this is your universe so get into it I want that on a t-shirt thank you carry on carry
00:29:48.380on well yeah that's what I see because those kind of they're just parties and giving kids money and
00:29:56.220all that kind of thing and and I think that's kind of what psychedelics turned into too just like
00:30:01.720parties and you know not not the spiritual well you know the psychedelics were heavy hot and heavy
00:30:10.680when when the cockets first formed so everybody that was in the core group of the cockets were
00:30:16.440all psychedelicized everybody in the group had been in san francisco for at least a year
00:30:22.120so we had all been rebirthed so the cockets was like our second incarnation you know and and as
00:30:28.280a group we created our particular future vision you know that was glamorous and happy and fun and
00:30:37.800and funny and expressive you know what i mean we had our own thing that was really solid but then
00:30:45.640um by the time it ended psychedelics really had kind of gone out of style in a way but i i think
00:30:53.320it was only it had to happen that way because psychedelics really kind of uh it was a neurological
00:31:01.800situation where people's nerves were just too frazzled and you know they had people had taken
00:31:08.760as much as they could and people that had really become rebirthed in a great way had either gone
00:31:14.600to the east to eastern religions or had gone to the country or had you know like we went into the
00:31:21.160theater space and um but people that came to san francisco after that they really got into
00:31:28.840more of the hard drugs and you know so that was a shame that it really took that left turn
00:31:36.040yeah because it was um i think it would have expanded a lot more and expanded in a better way
00:31:43.480even though the individually people were writing books they were everybody was doing a serious
00:31:50.280creative project so a lot of that carried on but then the drugs took down a lot of people which was
00:31:57.640really bad i mean i i uh when i think of janice joplin i i really think that she was doing her
00:32:04.600best day at house in terms of her in terms of her love really dressed her completely you know
00:32:12.520nancy girly was her godmother and mine as well you know and many others she was true she was like
00:32:19.160the earth mother um early icon is she still around has anyone has she written a book she
00:32:27.800passed i wish you know i wish and at the time when we were in in colorado i at the time i
00:32:34.600wished i had a tape recorder because she was she was uh she had a phd at an early age you know she
00:32:43.160she was a child prodigy as far as their intellect was concerned so um you know i mean she was
00:32:51.960when she spoke it was so mind-blowing and she would have been the one to write an incredible
00:32:59.400book she was the first one that was into essential oils and the real that's what she was into just
00:33:06.200before she died was you know ritualizing essential oils and there was a a place in the tenderloin
00:33:13.160called nature's herbs and i mean i think it's the same company that's still going but it was a
00:33:19.000little store that sold these little brown bottles uh with all these different oils in them and we
00:33:27.120would make a journey to nature's herbs and get our essential oils and i still have some of the
00:33:32.740bottles and they look like you know like old english you know apothecary yeah yeah apothecary
00:33:41.620you looking and it's just fabulous yeah yeah the victorians were into that too you know that was
00:33:47.940another reason i think why and and the whole um metaphysical movement from the late 1800s early
00:33:55.9401900s was very much alive there was a metaphysical bookstore in san francisco that everybody went to
00:34:02.660and it had a library you could sit there and read it yeah so it's really happening
00:34:09.620you mentioned uh the the various spaces that were inhabited by um the you know the people
00:34:15.780that you associated with the they farms or in your case the theater um but the coquettes took what
00:34:23.780you were doing in the streets to the theater this was not so much like uh you you you dressed up
00:34:30.660only on stage i mean truly though no no we were it was really important for people to be real
00:34:38.740you know that was you know coming out of the 60s and even now i see films that were made in the
00:34:44.82060s and it just reinforces what i even knew then when i was growing up people didn't didn't talk
00:34:50.660about their feelings at all people people express themselves people all had a facade and you
00:34:57.700presented this cool facade and you would um you know suggest or um intimate things nobody said
00:35:07.620i love you outright nobody said that nobody expressed you know someone else positively
00:35:14.260like you look so beautiful or nobody would say anything like that so and i remember feeling that
00:35:22.100that it was so false at the time so that's one of the things when i got to san francisco and people
00:35:27.860were real they would say what they really meant and you didn't have to do it like a translation0.99
00:35:33.940in your head as to what the hell was really going on instead of this facade of stupidity0.99
00:35:40.260so that was kind of the dawn of that and um it was also the dawn of the the self awareness0.99
00:35:48.820movement that came along because people were trying to discover who they really were
00:35:53.140and not you know who their parents thought they were and you know yeah it was confusing growing
00:36:01.060up in the 60s i'll tell you so what i i obviously have like a very highly romanticized view of you
00:36:10.600know the cockettes and the life of the cockettes but what what was the reaction of of like the
00:36:18.760straight people for lack of a better word when when you were in the parks when you were or were
00:36:23.400they're just like no straight people in san francisco yeah right you could say that i mean
00:36:30.400just about everybody that was living in san francisco either had a child or a neighbor or0.98
00:36:36.160somebody that was involved in it even in the slightest way so uh the third cock ass house we0.79
00:36:44.080lived across from the panhandle and so there's pictures of us uh on this bench in the panhandle0.97
00:36:51.020and you can see these two guys two black guys walking through the panhandle and they're looking
00:36:55.900at us and laughing you know so and yeah i mean the whole city was taken up with it so it was almost
00:37:05.340it was very much like you know paris in the 20s or even the way new york was new york in the 60s was
00:37:13.500actually quite fabulous because it was design wise and fashion wise it was really peaking
00:37:19.900um so you would see it on the street you'd see fantastic fashion on the street and that's the
00:37:25.300way it was in san francisco with this whole counterculture vibe the whole um you know
00:37:31.780ethos of the of the movement was going on everywhere i mean it was really it was thick
00:37:37.380in the air you could cut it with a knife so you found that when people were laughing they were
00:37:42.840more laughing with you than at you it wasn't like a mean-spirited no no yeah and there you know
00:37:49.580people were making an effort to be positive and say positive things to to actually grow that vibe
00:37:57.280because people realized when when you're positive when you take a positive point of view you know
00:38:03.160you you you create something instead of tearing it down so um that was really the vibe going on
00:38:10.980and also there was hitchhiking and here's the thing about hitchhiking because there was like
00:38:15.940businessmen of course and people like that regular people so you'd hitchhike maybe two at a time and
00:38:22.480you'd get in the car and they would like what what you know so then you take them
00:38:28.460so we were into initiating people into the lifestyle and and into uh you know raising their
00:38:40.500fashion sense or their hippie awareness you know so yeah there is some spreading the word all the
00:38:49.000time and there are some really great minds like within the cockettes obviously but also um in
00:38:54.600terms of your collaborations i'm just like alan ginsburg alan ginsburg loved the cockettes
00:39:00.620first of all because they were we were all gorgeous i mean not not to say but no i mean
00:39:07.020facts are facts you know i mean it started in the house where we were living but then afterwards to
00:39:15.340increase the group hibiscus would go in the park harlow and hibiscus would go in the park and they
00:39:20.220would pick out like the prettiest hippies and and if i'm not mistaken you were like a you were like
00:39:27.180a child model is that correct yeah so ostensibly beautiful no arguments will come
00:39:34.860so alan ginsburg yeah so alan ginsburg loved the cockat house because there were so many
00:39:42.120beautiful boys there so i remember rumi rumi lived at one time in berkeley with
00:39:49.640some guys some other gay guys and they couldn't get ginsburg out of the house
01:00:40.680well hi dad this is Andy and I I'm thinking these girls don't even know who I'm talking to man
01:00:47.080so he said are you coming back we want to shoot the film again but I couldn't I was having like
01:00:52.660you know finals or some shit like that yeah come back anyway so yeah but he was a sweetheart
01:01:01.920and uh my friend uh joseph freeman he was he was in high school at the time and um he
01:01:11.060he loved andy warhol he grew up in brooklyn and he um he wanted to interview andy for the school
01:01:19.940paper you know he was cute so he went to the factory and anybody could walk in i mean that
01:01:25.860was the thing Andy Warhol you know he was like an underground artist it wasn't like he was uh
01:01:32.640untouchable or anything it's quite the opposite you know if you wanted to meet him he was totally
01:01:38.460available and he loved that he was extremely social and he would you know whatever you wanted
01:01:44.160to do it was cool so he Joey went up there and he asked him if he could interview him for the
01:01:48.880school paper and he did and then he became his assistant so after high school got out he would
01:01:55.760go to Andy's house and wake him up and make sure he got to this to the factory
01:02:01.100by like 4 30 or 5 o'clock or something and that became his job you know for
01:02:06.580however I mean I think he's he's any took he got into Polaroids so he has a
01:02:11.820whole collection of Polaroids and I think so he's putting them into a book
01:02:15.520right now I was gonna say I think this is gonna be the next book and we haven't
01:02:20.000talked about your book yet so please let's get into that it's the 50th
01:02:24.800anniversary of the coquettes explosion and I want to get into the title a bit we know what the
01:02:31.080coquettes is coquettes acid drag and sexual anarchy so I think we kind of covered acid drag already0.84
01:02:38.600tell me about sexual anarchy well uh we believed that if you loved someone then you had sex with0.91
01:02:50.360them and it was it was really there was like a moment in time where the door of androgyny
01:02:57.680opened wide and and any kind of sexual experience with each other as long as you loved it as
01:03:06.240long as it was not you were not victimizing anyone it was all consensual and it was how
01:03:13.480you met someone you know because a lot of people you would meet someone and it would
01:03:19.040be kind of a nonverbal exchange you know and you would you would get the vibe you know I mean all
01:03:27.880those cliches had a base in truth so you would meet somebody you'd be really attracted to them
01:03:34.420you would be kissing them and then you would you know what I mean and after that that's how you got
01:03:39.820to know someone you know and after that you would see if you wanted to go further with them and find
01:03:46.100out what they were like and actually have a deep conversation which was considered more intimate
01:03:51.100you know what i mean getting into their mind was yes right yeah the cockat house was very much like
01:03:59.840that and it was it was really like the sex house um because everybody that was there had had been0.66
01:04:06.860was totally turned on in that way and um you know the other thing was like the body consciousness
01:04:13.380in San Francisco, it was so elevated. It wasn't like anywhere else. Nothing was hidden. Everything
01:04:20.200was out in the open. And people were so, like the sexual consciousness was so high that it was
01:04:28.320when I first got there, I mean, people walking down the street, they would look you square in
01:04:33.880the eye. And, you know, it was very out there. So it was almost like when I first got there,
01:04:39.540it was like intimidating already it was so different even in new york people it wasn't
01:04:45.060like that even among the freaks there you know so i mean i was so into that scene in new york
01:04:53.300but really this was like the advanced you know then it was the advanced you know class
01:05:01.620so um yeah i mean you really people people's sexual awareness was almost the most important
01:05:08.820thing and it dictated it definitely dictated how you dressed and um you know the interaction was
01:05:18.580almost so prominent as far as the sexuality and so positive and welcoming you know there wasn't any
01:05:26.820um there was no judgment i mean it was a golden moment for sure when people were not judging each
01:05:33.620other it was very giving and loving and sharing and all of that was was so perfect um so I think
01:05:42.960you you summed it up kind of nicely I wrote this down um people were allowed to live at the end of
01:05:50.160their imagination yeah and you know I I thought that at the time I even thought that when I got
01:05:56.320there i thought this is it this is we're actually living where our imagination as far as our
01:06:06.000imaginations can go this is how it's being manifested right now and i realized that at
01:06:12.240the time and that's why i wanted to stay i mean i never left after i got there i wasn't supposed
01:06:18.320to stay there but you know my life totally changed and many many others that's what happened
01:06:25.840it was so life-changing because it was so advanced in a great way i mean it truly was
01:06:33.040you know the jefferson airplane there the first band was called the great society and that's what
01:06:37.760it was you know it really was the great society then and everybody was participating and a lot
01:06:44.880of people like the coquette house jesus uh everybody was naked walking around or else0.99
01:06:50.000you know uh with naked with accessories accessories but with your glittered penis0.98
01:07:01.120so um people were intimidated you know it was it was definitely people either came and jumped in0.99
01:07:08.320or they ran so yeah that's i think that that still happens how do you like how do we get back there
01:07:18.480Please. What do we do? You know, I mean, because here's a quote from, this is Midnight at the Palace that Pam Tent wrote. And because this is sort of like a counterpoint to your book. This is very text heavy. There aren't a lot of pictures in it. It's a great book. And your book is more like a coffee table book.
01:07:44.760it's like luxurious oh i saw the pictures i mean mine's mine's on the way so listeners i will do
01:07:53.080an update when it comes but i saw a bunch of pictures from various courses of people look
01:07:59.160gorgeous like a yeah like a coffee table book like something that you're going to want to
01:08:05.880have out on your coffee table anyway back to pam ten so that's good stories so her book is a lot
01:08:12.680of anecdotes from different members who remembered all all the different stories so her book is like
01:08:19.720one side and that's why i wanted to do something else that was the visual story because there were
01:08:25.720so many photographers that took pictures because we were so we were the first we were the pioneers
01:08:31.640so we were photographically uh heavily covered i mean obviously like this was a subject yeah
01:08:40.680definitely and there's more there's more so i'm looking now to doing a deluxe edition
01:08:47.560you know a bigger book because i had to cut out 32 pages it was too big
01:08:54.280a minute almost 400 pages so we had to cut but uh yeah i want to do a deluxe edition with a dvd
01:09:01.880so we'll see yes i in 2002 the documentary came out oh yeah like a little bump for the sort of
01:09:10.680know zeitgeist in terms of the cockettes and now your book is coming out but um i still i feel like
01:09:18.840people who know the cockettes know and we're obsessed and are like oh you know like did you
01:09:24.680see that that bit that like jalala made or you know and we get we get very into it but but then
01:09:31.080then there's the other thing of people who've never heard of the cockhead which is mind-blowing
01:09:36.440to me because this is like um if you're into i want to say like grace jones or or james st james
01:09:42.200and the club kids or lady gaga um you know this is where we trace that back to in a in a very
01:09:48.680large way so pam wrote um that new york fashion designer mark jacobs had found the inspiration
01:09:56.360for his 2004 spring line in images of i'm quoting an obscure group of cross dressers called the
01:10:03.480Cockettes. It's amusing to realize that some 30 years after our radical politics, sexual rebellion,
01:10:10.680and theatrical extravagance made us the poster children for San Francisco's thrilling counterculture,
01:10:16.440we would be remembered merely as a fashion footnote. How do you react to that? Well, that was
01:10:23.240really, you know, Marc Jacobs lived in San Francisco and was part of the Castro scene
01:10:30.760in the late 70s. I don't think he ever saw a show but our visual language a version of drag that
01:10:39.640was more expansive than just creating the other facade which was popular then. Just the gender0.91
01:10:47.480flipping as opposed to the gender annihilating. Well that really took hold in the Castro and so0.91
01:10:56.120he was a part of that scene so he knew about the cockettes and he was influenced by them and then0.71
01:11:01.800he became a professional uh fashion designer so when he was looking to do something radical so
01:11:09.640he gave uh this was after the film came out like two years later he gave his whole design team
01:11:15.320copies of the film and said watch this film and this is going to be where we're coming from
01:11:21.560so the film really you know we there's something you know the big door that opened to all the
01:11:30.520radical behavior really kind of shut by the time the 80s the mid 80s you know it went in a total
01:11:40.120other direction and so people were not paying attention to what we had done and we had only
01:11:45.480been together for three years we didn't carry on after that even though there were spin-off groups
01:11:51.240you know like um the hot peaches there was groups in new york there was groups all over i want to
01:11:57.880say the ramones opened for the whiz kids which was one of your sort of options oh no that was
01:12:03.800tomato and i after that tomato formed the whiz kids in seattle and tomato and i we fell in love
01:12:10.600the summer before we went to new york the whiz kids came to san francisco you know these groups
01:12:15.960like the Ridiculous Theater people, the John Waters people, the WizKid people, whenever we
01:12:21.160would travel as a group to go see each other, you know, and when they would came, when, you know,
01:12:26.460we would go to the airport to greet them, and you know what I mean, and they had gotten in a van
01:12:31.140and drove to San Francisco to be with us. It was, it was like this, you know, the other stars were
01:12:38.580coming, you know, because we had our own galaxy, and there were certain groups that were in it,
01:12:45.080and they were coming and it was a big deal so they came in the summer of 71 and tomato and i
01:12:51.860met each other and it was like totally when you say a bolt from the blue it was bang and yeah so
01:12:59.240we completely fell in love and had a big romance and he wanted me to come to seattle so then in 72
01:13:07.840when the group broke up he said oh you have to come here right away so then i went and spent the
01:13:12.160summer in Seattle and when we got towards the fall because when we were in New York even though the
01:13:18.080opening night thing whatever but all the underground artists were really into it and
01:13:24.420they wanted us to come back and perform in New York so tomato and I went back with link we went
01:13:30.120to New York and we started looking for small places to play and we found a place to live we
01:13:37.280were living in this tenement it was a city-owned building on it was off the bowery it was bowery
01:13:43.300and second street and we had the top floor i mean it was funky as hell you know but hey you know
01:13:50.160we were doing what we wanted we carried on we've fucking carried on so so we were looking for small
01:13:57.880places to play and right around the corner was this bar called hillies and then all of a sudden
01:14:05.100but it was closed and all of a sudden it had a new awning that said CBGB's and just like
01:14:10.860they show in the film, I think Hilly must have done this every day because it was the0.94
01:14:15.500Bums neighborhood. It was really we and we were in another country called the Tramp,1.00
01:14:21.940you know what I mean? That's where the, you know, the hobos lived on the Bowery and so,
01:14:28.520you know, and then we, you know, so Hilly was sweeping the street and that's how we
01:14:34.140met him and he showed us the club and it had a stage it was perfect so we started doing shows
01:14:40.220there and that's when and then the band started coming in because he was divine he really wanted
01:14:46.140he was way into helping young culture and whatever it was was fine with him and it was a beautiful
01:14:53.740hangout and uh welcoming to everyone so we had this show that we did called savage voodoo nuns
01:14:59.500and and then the bands would gradually come and so and it would be not just one
01:15:09.740play I mean there'd be like we'd go on all night when we went I think it was
01:15:16.140one of the whiz kids Gorilla Rose had gone that afternoon to CBGB's when the
01:15:22.000Ramones were doing a soundcheck he wanted to check out who they were and he
01:15:25.680came back and said you're never gonna believe this group so that's how we met
01:15:29.940the Ramones because they they opened for nuns you know yeah and you also did some
01:15:38.520costume production for it sorry oh I immediately
01:19:17.060So we went back home and we, we, we did shows after that.
01:19:23.540We did Journey to the Center of Uranus.
01:19:26.200And that's when Divine came and she was in that show.
01:19:29.560and um then we did the last version of pearls after link added a third act and more songs and
01:19:37.100everything this is pearls over shanghai right pearls over shanghai so by that time i had
01:19:43.300completely forgot about it i told you know it's like what when this was she it was in april
01:19:52.360that we're supposed to go so i get a phone call one day and she said hi do you remember
01:20:01.080you're gonna come right you're still gonna come right oh wow okay yeah okay yeah you know so so
01:20:11.000um nobody went to vegas at that time i mean not even your parents really
01:20:17.560you know it was not it was a mob town and it was showgirls women with big hair and uh the mob and
01:20:30.280i mean it was not someplace you went certainly not as a hippie man
01:20:35.560so it was a big deal so the cockettes were all fan is going to bed
01:20:41.080they're all over the moon about it so at the time uh when we got back a few of us
01:20:52.520got a place this was in the castro um on belcher street and it was john flowers myself
01:21:01.320wally i think daniel was there i mean you know everybody was moving in and out of places but
01:21:08.040so it was definitely john and wally were there and i think daniel was there too
01:21:12.440so that's where i was when i had to start getting this together
01:21:16.440to actually go to vegas okay so um the significant feature about this is
01:21:24.280that qualities were invented right and there was a place
01:21:30.600around the corner from where we were living that we
01:21:34.360that was a clinic and qualities has so many fabulous drugs was invented to get you off heroin
01:21:43.000right but of course when they immediately when they realized that you got high then it was illegal
01:21:49.480you know yeah the the euphoria oh no x the euphoria god forbid you should feel this
01:21:57.000so and know it you know what I mean you're right so but meanwhile this was
01:22:03.300when it was still legal so everybody signed up and we called it the quality
01:22:07.680clinic but you had to sign up as a junkie you know so I mean who is going
01:22:14.900to use your real name and and sign up and say you're an addict I mean nobody
01:22:20.620did that so i had an alias betty carlisle betty carlisle perfect very sweet and innocent lady
01:22:31.340i still had this like sweet face i mean i've been fooling them my entire life honey
01:22:37.260really they all think oh she's so angelic look how cute oh my god no baby you're not up here
01:22:46.300Yeah, yeah. So every night, it became, people would cop at the quality clinic and then come to our house for like cocktail hour and get crazy high. So that's what was going on when I'm trying to all of a sudden figure out, you know, what to do with this. And it was just impossible.
01:23:11.300So I just put everything into the Coquette trunk and shipped it air freight to Vegas.
01:23:17.400And this is an old steamer trunk, quite sizable, with the Coquettes spray painted on top in neon yellow.
01:23:27.920And that got shipped off to Vegas on Delta.
01:23:32.440You know, it still had its Delta sticker on it.
01:23:35.220so bett tells the story that she was already there and all of a sudden she was in the lobby
01:23:43.800and her boyfriend was one of the musicians in the band and they're standing at the desk and this0.94
01:23:50.140trunk comes through the lobby and they went what the fuck is that and then they go to get in the0.67
01:23:57.160elevator and the trunk follows them into the elevator and they get out of the elevator and0.98
01:24:02.360trunk follows them down the hall and goes into the room with them and then she realized what it was
01:24:10.680so i was supposed to go there i think on thursday night i don't i can't quite remember but uh i just
01:24:19.320you know got two stoned and completely missed every flight and then i also so i was also had
01:24:25.640a footlocker that i brought with me that had shoes it was all shoes and i had the coquette
01:24:32.680press was in there because by that time we were in a lot of magazines and we'd already been in new
01:24:37.160york and i thought i'm i'm gonna be in vegas maybe we could get further you know we all wanted to go
01:24:44.520to paris and i thought we could find somebody that can get us to paris so i brought all the
01:24:51.000press and that was all in the foot locker so thursday completely missed the flight friday
01:24:57.560and everybody was coming over at this point even more people were coming over because i was going
01:25:02.520to you know it was so screamingly insane um and i had gotten like a barrel of koalas to take with
01:25:13.720me under Betty Carlisle and Wally made me a hat like a big hat with you know what Wally looked
01:25:22.360like he was he wore everything all the time so this hat was like a big sun hat that had flowers
01:25:29.560it was wildly crazy and Daniel he rolled like three joints that were like stogies you know
01:36:38.040you also made wearable art for uh i want to say the rolling stones uh diana ross
01:36:45.800yeah and i made these uh it was right when vests were coming in i think it was
01:36:53.320probably in the early 80s or something um i wanted to have like a small wearable art
01:37:01.000business and i didn't quite know what to do uh and my friend was doing jewelry and she said why
01:37:08.360don't you just come to the studio and hang out and you'll think of something so i went to her studio
01:37:13.800and she was dying beads and making these beautiful necklaces of all these bright colored beads and
01:37:21.160things on them but just prior to that she had done uh jewelry with findings that that are brass
01:37:31.240stamped findings of everything you can imagine from lion's heads to occult to egyptian i mean
01:37:38.040it was just everything and so i looked at that and i thought you know that would be fantastic
01:37:44.680all over this so then of course i went to the goodwill where else and there's here in l.a
01:37:54.760there's uh this is already here in l.a and on there's a saint vinnie's that's the biggest one
01:38:03.560and it's way downtown like beyond downtown and it had a room that had a lot of menswear
01:38:11.960and I found this rack of about 20 at least 20 Victorian men's black vests I mean it was what
01:38:21.480I was looking for now that's what I want to say that's the magic of thrift stores flea markets
01:38:28.320you cosmically send out the message of what you want and then you find it and it appears
01:38:35.840that has happened to me I can't even tell you how many times and I've seen it happen to my
01:38:41.040other friends too i know i go with them to a three you know a thrift store a flea market and they'll
01:38:46.700be looking for i know what they're looking for and there it'll be and it'll be something i've
01:38:51.360never seen before but there it'll be just for them and my feeling is that here we are on this planet
01:38:58.500and there is a circle of items that flow around the planet like satellites and that circle of
01:39:07.980items is constantly in motion and you can call it you know what I mean and it will come to you
01:39:15.400so I found these gorgeous never worn Victorian black vests and and I never found them again
01:39:24.760actually you know they're very hard to find actually so I decorated them with these findings
01:39:30.560you know I got this friend of mine made a drill press for me so it had a very tiny hole and I
01:39:35.760went into these findings of all kinds and I put them all over the vests and my first customer was
01:39:44.680Maxfield's which is this high-end designer store here in LA and so they sold them to the Rolling
01:39:53.300Stones and I did a hat for Diana Ross and so I did berets with all the stuff on did I did I read
01:39:59.780new kids on the block also kids on the block and uh oh what was his name he was a talk show host
01:40:06.900arsenio hall was on time magazine wearing one right and ron wood wore one and there was a
01:40:15.220photograph of the rolling stones and and the photographer actually sent me the picture of
01:40:20.260the group and with ron wood wearing the vest so yeah so i rode that pony right to the end of it
01:40:28.340Yeah, again, I mean, I just want to reiterate what I was saying before, like, how heavy your hand has been in terms of, like, the American wearable art, you know, again, from...
01:40:39.060I don't think of that, but, yeah, I guess.