00:16:18.580Like, surely they already knew what honey was.
00:16:21.340so it probably wasn't too much of a leap but still that takes a lot of courage to just be like
00:16:27.940here's the mystery bubbling thing let's see what it does but they did and they loved it this community
00:16:32.840still makes me today in their traditional ways it's incredible thinking about how innovative
00:16:39.700people were like on par was when we think about innovation today and we're like oh this person
00:16:44.420you know had this like genius tech invention and all of this and like i'm not trying to dig on the
00:16:49.540genius tech inventions I mean I'm like using a computer and all of this right now but I think
00:16:53.440we often do a disservice to the past by assuming that the people in the past were less creative or
00:17:00.320innovative or intelligent than modern humans so I don't know that's just like a total soapbox I
00:17:05.280just got off on but just jump on it anytime they're just I'm just gonna sprinkle soapboxes
00:17:10.520about you jump on them here's another one I want to hear you jump on about can you talk about
00:17:15.400mead wines fermentations and uh you know our relationship with the divine
00:17:22.780you know alcohol is really interesting because it has been long used in various rituals as
00:17:30.040something to bring you closer to the gods we often think of different herbs you might smoke
00:17:34.320and things as doing that but people have traditionally also used alcohol in those
00:17:38.560ways and sometimes added psychotropic plants to alcohol the fermentation does in some cases
00:17:45.380increase the psychotropic effects of certain plants or make them psychotropic in the first
00:17:50.520place. So, you know, that has been a big part of how we've engaged with the divine, but it has
00:17:55.960been so important to our understanding of the divine. You know, if you think about it, it's
00:18:00.500this mind altering substance that is made by this unseen transformation, you know, you consume and
00:18:10.340it kind of makes you feel all these different ways. And I mean, it makes sense that people
00:18:14.740would be like, wow, this is obviously magical. It is. And so we see a lot of different alcohol
00:18:22.880based sorts of things in traditions around the world. We have alcohol based kind of divinity
00:18:29.420stories. But the two that I'm most familiar with are Caridwyn in Celtic legend and her cauldron of
00:18:36.440wisdom and inspiration. She would stir that. It was, it was a bubbling cauldron of barley. It was
00:18:41.360beer. She was making beer, right? And then, of course, the mead of the gods, the Viking mead
00:18:47.380of poetry and inspiration that was made from the blood of this very wise, wonderful poet who was
00:18:54.120killed. The gods were mad about it and they made this mead, but then some of it fell to earth and
00:18:58.220then the humans got it and that's how we have poetry. It's so cool to me that we, I am not
00:19:04.820saying this in any way to diminish the very real effects of alcoholism and dependency but i think
00:19:11.820now we tend to talk about alcohol from a very fear-based lens like we tend to even outside of
00:19:19.500the very good conversations we should be having about dependency you know we tend to either talk
00:19:25.760about it either in terms of flavor or in terms of you know oh you can't have more than a tiny bit or
00:19:33.240it'll just absolutely destroy your health. I'm not saying drink more than you already are or
00:19:37.300drink too much or any of that. But I'm saying like, in the past, people, people just had a
00:19:42.840different relationship with it. They could have a glass of wine without being like, Oh, God, my
00:19:47.000liver, they could just have it and be like, Okay, like now I have had my glass of wine. That was
00:19:51.820nice. Maybe there's something to be, to be gained from thinking about it. You know, not as a magical
00:20:01.140thing we need to just sit and consume a ton of but when we are going to sit down and have a glass
00:20:07.300of wine i mean maybe by thinking about it as magical we can really appreciate that that glass
00:20:12.260that we're having like we can really enjoy that thing re-sacralizing making ritual around food
00:20:20.420and things it's probably where our idea of these things being portals to the divine in part comes
00:20:26.740from and how we can kind of reconnect ourselves back into sort of unseen dimensions too the other
00:20:34.740scene that i was so astonished by and i feel like it's connected you wrote about um fermentation and
00:20:43.180death rituals so there's you know i and i think it's something that i'm kind of still diving into
00:20:51.840right now actually i've been kind of looking around marks it's so it's so interesting to me
00:20:56.320But I think at the core of it must be this sort of, like, transformation by unseen beings, right?
00:21:06.400And I think, you know, that transformation, you know, we're watching things rise, we're watching bread rise, for example.
00:21:13.680So there's the corpse bread, and I think it was, like, in Germany up until, I don't know, a couple hundred years ago, and you would put it on the chest of the corpse and let it rise.
00:21:23.460And the idea was, it was, you know, it was like taking some of that person's essence and sharing it. And, you know, I mean, it makes sense because you're watching this thing actually transform. You're watching, you're watching the bread rise, you know, you're, you're assuming this person's soul is rising out of them already. And you know that bread rises when you let it sit. So maybe the person's soul is getting into that bread too. And you're able to kind of keep a piece of them with you.
00:21:49.220And that, I mean, that has to be connected to, to the Christ ritual, right? To transubstantiation.
00:21:55.920Yeah, I mean, and I think, I think it probably is in that case. You know, there were certainly
00:22:02.640other death rituals that were not, say, like the Egyptian ritual of, you know, putting just like
00:22:08.920a ton of food and wine in somebody's tomb. Like, you have to make sure they're able to like party
00:22:13.740for as long as they want to in the afterlife um yeah and that's I mean that one's less specifically
00:22:20.920about you know fermentation and more just about kind of like you know um having having some food
00:22:27.500and booze there but um yeah I think I think that sort of transformation I think you know I mean
00:22:34.260when we think about the Eucharist I mean I I suspect I I've actually never been baptized even
00:22:41.240though I was raised Christian and so I've never done the Eucharist but um but it's my understanding
00:22:50.320that yeah it's very much a like you know blood and body sort of situation yeah it's funny like
00:22:55.360in that you know when I was I went to a bunch of different churches when I was growing up because
00:23:00.880I was like re-baptized when my mom remarried and so got to got to try some different flavors
00:23:06.620but um in the like more hippie social justice churches that we went to for a while they would
00:23:12.840literally make like an unleavened bread it wasn't the wafers it was it was it was a bread that i
00:23:18.720picture very much being like like a quick leavening or whatever like you're like you're
00:23:25.100like i was imagining when you were describing the bread that would sit on the chest of the corpse
00:23:30.140you know yeah i mean it's it's interesting as well i've not i've not done the eucharist i've
00:23:38.000definitely like watched enough other people do it like um so like it the church i grew up in
00:23:44.680was like a an evangelical church and they would use like those like pre-made pie crusts like the
00:23:51.480pillsbury rollout ones and they would just like prick them with a fork and bake it and then like
00:23:56.520you would break off pieces as it went by I've never heard of that that's awesome yeah it was
00:24:02.300it was really weird like I I like snuck a couple bites of it once which I don't know like what the
00:24:07.960you know what sort of like you know punishment you get for that oh yeah I mean it was awful
00:24:13.940yeah yeah it was yeah it was really bad and then they would have like Welch's grape juice
00:24:19.720um okay yeah yeah um i never thought about that okay yeah so that was that was that place
00:24:27.160but i've been other places too where they've had you know like the actual wafer wafers but then
00:24:32.100like you talked about like where it was actually like a like a flatbread like actual flatbread that
00:24:37.640was like lightly leavened but not like you know a giant loaf right just a just a little guy and
00:24:44.760I remember them tasting quite sour like I think there was I think I think there was a mom with a
00:24:50.280sourdough starter oh okay so that reminds me of two other things I want to ask you about
00:24:53.820I want to talk about misogyny and fermentation because there there's this there's this sort of
00:25:02.100line I mean you dig into it in so many smart ways but there were these two moments where I was like
00:25:06.740oh shit we'll have to talk to dr skinner about that um especially in in japan and the history
00:25:13.780of saki i was like well this just happens over and over right where it was it seems like it was0.98
00:25:19.520women dominated and it was like sacred the relationship between them up until like
00:25:24.780eighth century or something and then and then it's like suddenly there's a switch and women can't1.00
00:25:30.420come in within a fucking hundred yards because we're yeah we're toxic why does that happen what0.93
00:25:35.580tell me about what you think about that I mean and we you know I mean we see that in Japan we0.97
00:25:42.260see that in like the history of beer brewing in Western Europe like we see it all over the place
00:25:46.740and I mean and I think yeah I think like you said it it's it's something that was initially
00:25:54.560considered women's work I mean like if you look in ancient Egypt women would do brewing but like
00:25:59.080I think men could only do winemaking because it was too sacred or something and you know part of
00:26:04.020it is this sort of you know this this misogynistic control over our ability to engage with the world
00:26:12.980and make a livelihood for ourselves um and a desire to say like oh well you're good at this
00:26:19.620well like i don't know i'm a dude so like i'm i'm just gonna do it better um but there's also a real
00:26:25.860economic driver too which is in a lot of cases these things were actually affording women economic1.00
00:26:32.980freedom. And when we have economic freedom, you know, if I'm not chained to my partner, because0.99
00:26:38.660the only way that I can afford to buy groceries is by him, you know, giving me an allowance or
00:26:45.560something, like if suddenly I can buy my own groceries, like, am I going to listen to that
00:26:49.940guy as much? No, not really. So, I mean, I think, you know, there was an economic motivator. And,
00:26:56.180you know, it's interesting when you look at a lot of articles about this, because people will say
00:26:59.620like oh well men were suddenly really interested in brewing they realized they could make money at it
00:27:04.560and yes like that that is definitely part of it but like why brewing specifically why like why0.90
00:27:12.220alcohol making specifically and I think it has to do with the specific desire to deprive women
00:27:18.160of our ability to make our own money and have our own self-direction right so it does seem like it's
00:27:27.380directly tied to that same moment that, and I mean, it's a long moment, but that Sylvia Federici
00:27:33.140talks about and others that like, as soon as there's a false poverty imposed by early capitalism
00:27:40.340saying we're taking land, we're dividing it up and you shouldn't be pissed at us, magistrates0.70
00:27:46.380or capitalists, you should be terrified and pissed at each other, especially that old lady over there.
00:38:29.140I mean, a lot of traditional ferments are both prebiotic and probiotic.
00:38:33.520So they have fiber and the actual microbes themselves, which means it's feeding your
00:38:38.780microbiome, not only with more microbes, but also with like the actual starches it needs.
00:38:44.020And in doing that, I mean, like there's a whole like nerdy things you can do about the
00:38:48.460vagus nerve and the brain gut connection if we're undernourished and depressed and stressed out and
00:38:53.980all of these things like our brain won't be working as well in that case either so they really are
00:39:00.940powerful allies for our health in all kinds of interesting ways right I was thinking today about
00:39:06.380how like you know it's such a privilege that we have here to spend time building our garden you
00:39:14.700know the brain space at all you know let alone the like physical privilege of being able to live
00:39:21.680here the brain space at all to think about taking time to gather our scraps for many people that
00:39:28.820came from poverty but but a different kind of poverty where like now so much of our work life0.96
00:39:36.080is just all consumptive in front of a computer or in fucking meetings or whatever so they'll break
00:39:42.180away how did that happen for you that you started to claw out that space in your life to garden and0.97
00:39:49.500then ferment and then like make a life that has room for these ideas I mean the gardening kind
00:39:56.580of came by necessity I mean it was something that I wanted to do and I love you know I love doing
00:40:01.780and so it's like while it was out of necessity it's not like it was you know oh god I have to
00:40:06.640garden like it was something that I needed to do because I wasn't getting any vegetables but
00:40:11.820But it was also something that obviously I wanted to do. And so that's why I stuck with it. I just kept finding myself in the kitchen, you know, like when you have a thing that you're just so passionate about, that you just kind of keep turning to it and turning to it, maybe without even realizing it.
00:40:26.360Um, that kind of was my relationship with fermentation. I mean, and I've had that
00:40:31.360relationship with food writ large, but fermentation, especially, it became such an important part of
00:40:37.860my practice, you know, as a person existing in this world. I mean, the first thing I do when I
00:40:46.400wake up in the morning after I, you know, feed my animals is I make coffee. And while, you know,
00:40:52.560while I'm kind of drinking that and puttering around I'm like checking my ferments and like
00:40:57.040straining things that need to be strained or making new things or you know whatever like that's
00:41:02.240how I start my day every day it didn't start out as an intentional effort to do that it just kind
00:41:08.360of was what I gravitated towards and now I mean now kind of building in that mindfulness and all
00:41:14.540of that I mean is is critical like I don't know how I existed when I was like such a basket case
00:41:19.680before and i wasn't doing this stuff like i don't know i was like so stressed all the time
00:41:23.620like not like like not like i never get stressed now but i feel like like i feel like i recognize
00:41:30.360that i'm in i'm in a position where i'm able to make time for this stuff and so because i have
00:41:38.300the privilege to make time for this stuff i can kind of mirror how that might look for others
00:41:45.080like maybe that will help somebody else too but just like with my writing coaching i mean if i'm
00:41:50.320being a terrible writing coach and i'm not following any of the advice i give people i mean i'm not
00:41:55.200being a useful mirror for them so doing this is not only critical for my sanity but i'm able to
00:42:01.420justify making time for it because i'm seeing it as kind of helping me build the world i want to
00:42:06.460see and it's easier to make time to think about world building rather than selfishly doing something
00:42:12.120just for me even though that's also perfectly great and wonderful too right yeah I mean I think
00:42:18.080you cut right to knowing recognizing allowing ourselves to know that we need that opening in
00:42:26.200our lives and then like spending a lit like being like I just I need the vegetables or like I I I0.70
00:42:31.840might be shit at gardening but like I need to go put my hands in the dirt for like 20 minutes this
00:42:36.320week or like I have to cook something like I have to wrench my life away from this rhythm0.99
00:42:42.840the smallest the smallest steps start to make another rhythm make another life I think I would
00:42:50.960agree with that and I don't think any of us who have kind of all-consuming you know passions
00:42:55.280about things started out with it being an all-consuming passion it's more of a slow burn
00:42:59.760I would make sauerkraut once in a while and you know check it and be like yeah that's sauerkraut
00:43:04.720it took a couple years for it to really get like super extra so it was it was definitely a process
00:43:12.120um yeah but no I agree with you that's funny okay um I'm gonna ask one more question and
00:43:18.940then invite anyone who's listening to contribute or ask questions or just say hi here's my last
00:43:26.160one can you tell us a couple of ferments that you either know of or you found in writing this book
00:43:33.600that you're like people don't know about this like this is a crazy because the book is full of them
00:43:38.340I mean the book was full of ferments I had never heard of that are totally doable for me to make
00:43:43.240that I was like I I mean the cultural breadth and then the breadth across time is really really fun
00:43:48.660can you give a couple examples to get people excited about how delicious your book is
00:43:52.360yeah so I think that what's interesting about talking about different ferments and what we
00:43:58.500know and what we don't I mean it's so so culturally situated so like I'm coming at these from things
00:44:04.960that I learned about relatively recently as as a westerner name which is a fermented pork sausage
00:44:13.440it's pretty easy to make you it refers kind of to like a garlic ferment of meat you can have like
00:44:21.440short ribs that are fermented in this way it's not always just sausage but sausage is usually how I
00:44:26.460make it and it's delicious and there's different wild fermented beers you know we all know what
00:44:32.280beer is right when I think about the kinds of beers that existed historically that we don't
00:44:37.960think of as much today I mean like hops were not always a part of brewing right like grew it which
00:44:43.040referred to other bittering herbs like say mugwort that that was something that you would be more
00:44:48.500likely to see like there's also I mean creeping charlie like the invasive plant that's like in
00:44:53.560my yard right now one of its other names is ale hiff people used to put it in beer to flavor it
00:44:59.380like there's all of these different histories around beer too and just kind of the simple act
00:45:05.060of malt and you know making malt and water into a ferment but there's a lot of interesting things
00:45:11.700to explore oh my gosh yeah and then honeys and pastes and like so many pastes so many pastes
00:45:19.420i'll open it up to the cover now hi hi hi i'm nikki and i was just thinking well so many
00:45:30.340thoughts exploding right now like fermentation in my brain but as a mother of a neuro atypical
00:45:39.680son who is nine i'm just curious if you've encountered any research about fermentation
00:45:46.740and neurodivergent friends. I didn't encounter a ton and I don't think it's because it's not
00:45:54.800out there. I think it was just that it was beyond the scope of the history aspect of my work,
00:45:59.820but I have heard, and this is completely anecdotally, so this is not like there's a
00:46:04.680study about it, but like I have had people who are like holistic practitioners and things talk
00:46:09.600with me about how how they find that ferments are very helpful in the diets of folks who are
00:46:16.560neuroatypical yeah thank you I'm just like I'm full of curiosity now I'm gonna go down my own
00:46:22.760rabbit holes awesome yeah yeah I'd be curious to hear what you learn about that thank you I'd be
00:46:29.000interested in that too I mean I think one of the perspectives you take on fermentation is
00:46:34.040fermentation it's meditation and I think they're alone just interacting slowly with the food we
00:46:41.920grow and then we preserve and then we eat like I think I don't know for me and my kid it's become
00:46:49.140like a part of our days because she's still home with us and it's very much it's calming for
00:46:56.560somebody who is like pretty highly sensitive this is like when we talk about like kind of anecdotal
00:47:01.400you know evidence around it I mean like you hit the nail on the head like that sort of grounding
00:47:06.460presence having to be present with all your senses you can't really dissociate and be over
00:47:12.460here if you're having to be completely in this place I find that helpful it'd be cool if somebody
00:47:17.840did research on it I hope somebody does I'd love to read it here's this last piece that I've been
00:47:23.400thinking about so much since I read it in your book I wish I could show you what's happening
00:47:30.760outside my window right now but there's like an there's like an axe flying and I don't know that
00:47:35.100sounds really extra yeah it's all extra all the time out here um no I was thinking about this
00:47:42.560other moment this other story in your book about and it's in the death ritual section
00:47:49.160about letting the bees know can you tell that story yes so I love I love the story
00:47:57.740or kind of the the practice of telling the bees um telling the bees is basically
00:48:04.560the idea that after after somebody passes so bees are really really sensitive like i think
00:48:11.480you know because we are very you know human centric creatures and we assume that everything
00:48:16.200else is dumb and doesn't have feelings we don't think that bees have feelings we don't think that
00:48:20.780you know any of these creatures like we think they're barely sentient but bees are actually0.99
00:48:24.520super sensitive and actually will bond to a person. And so when your person, you are a hive
00:48:31.000of bees, when your person passes, it is the job of the family to go out to the hives and to tell
00:48:39.160the bees that that person has died. Otherwise, the bees will just go. They will swarm and go
00:48:44.540somewhere else. And so there's, it's especially in England, but I think it is around other places
00:48:50.520too, where you tell, tell the bees, and that's like a part of kind of the, the morning rituals
00:48:57.460and the preparation for end of life stuff. As you're doing funeral preparations, as you're
00:49:03.080planning all of that, telling the bees is also kind of like a part of that practice.
00:49:08.300How do you think they tell them? English?
00:49:12.580From what I understand, you tell them in English, but I think you sit with the bees
00:49:16.420for a little while like you kind of just sit and are sad with the bees like have some feelings with
00:49:22.500the bees the bees may or may not understand english but they definitely can understand
00:49:26.260if you're sitting there mourning yeah that that makes a lot of sense to me that
00:49:30.080they go in and weep and they'll feel an absence and then they'll know there was weeping
00:49:35.500yeah yeah there's special little critters
00:49:43.160I was reading some stories of traditional ritual dances for goddesses that they're now realizing
00:49:50.840based on some reinterpretations of translations probably the the the women the melisee we know
00:49:58.320they were they were bee goddess they were bee prophets but the dances probably actually took
00:50:03.100the literal shape of the bees dances oh cool we know now we've rediscovered that bees have specific
00:50:11.200dances that communicate specific things and it seems like they probably knew that then too and
00:50:15.780then that knowledge was lost yeah 100 years that's amazing it's such a good example of how
00:50:21.400colonialism robs us collectively and us individual cultures of our indigenous knowledge and our ways
00:50:27.660of knowing and then suddenly we you know discover that this is a thing that people knew 10 000 years
00:50:34.320ago right how sad and how interesting but how interesting to think about like where that
00:50:40.980knowledge is stored you know yeah and so i do like to think about the the microbes and the
00:50:47.160bios and the animals and the bees and the bugs as places where that knowledge is you know the
00:50:51.760stuff that exceeds the archives and we keep finding it again it's there it's in the living
00:50:56.100world somewhere yeah well and it's you know i mean there's a reason why you know we feel so
00:51:02.460we feel a certain way we feel moved when we hear these stories or we see these dances or you know
00:51:07.380it's like maybe us tapping into that like archive in a in a non-paper you know non non-human sense
00:51:18.100yeah that living archive yeah when is your book going to be available for pre-order0.95
00:51:24.380it is available for pre-order um at this very moment oh shit hooray0.89
00:51:30.560um and it will be actually in people's hot little hands in september all right
00:51:37.800september 27th something like that we'll include a link for the pre-order
00:51:41.960podcast so everybody can get on this and get excited and pre-orders if you're wondering
00:51:48.160make a huge difference yes yes to authors they make a huge huge difference so if you want to make
00:51:55.180a loving impact on Dr. Julia Skinner's work that's a fun way that's a fun way to do it
00:52:00.740people can find you at Root Kitchens Bookish Julia your newsletter is awesome you're doing
00:52:07.040really cool interviews with people people like the witches for missing witches but no a lot
00:52:11.560a lot of brilliant academics you're doing really really cool interviews there
00:52:16.220how can people find and subscribe to this newsletter so that the newsletter is at
00:52:21.920rootkitchens.substack.com there's also a link to it on my website and my social so if you just go
00:52:29.000to my social it's in there as well but yeah there's the free newsletter and then there's
00:52:35.120like a paid one where you get other fancy stuff but like the free one also has cool stuff so
00:52:39.580yeah both of them are a lot of fun it's just like fancy and fancier yeah
00:52:45.220amazing I know we're going to collaborate on a ritual together for our patrons our collective
00:52:54.840patrons and subscribers in the fall but do you feel like leaving us with something that you are
00:53:01.900doing right now in this season in these days that is part of your practice that helps you
00:53:09.660so I've been here in Atlanta and I don't know if this is the case for you as well but here
00:53:17.420we get so many things blooming at once which is beautiful and abundant and also means
00:53:24.060that like this is why I've been like drinking tea the whole time we've been talking is because like
00:53:29.560everything is just like a pollen cloud right now and so you know it's been
00:53:35.620it that allergy thing is whatever but it causes me to like turn to local wildflower honeys a lot
00:53:44.320and so I've been thinking a lot about wildflower honeys and how I can incorporate those um this
00:53:50.440this season and one thing I do every Beltane is I go out in the yard and I take every single
00:53:56.640wild plant that's edible that calls to me and I put them in a jar and I put in some honey
00:54:02.060and I put in some water and I shake it up and I make mead. I just let it sit and I check it every
00:54:09.020day. You can do it on the holidays, but you don't have to. You can do it on the full moon. Sometimes
00:54:12.720I do it on the new moon. Sometimes I just do it on like, I don't know, it's a Tuesday. It's a good
00:54:16.800way to really connect to place and to make the medicine of that honey much more personal.
00:54:24.000when we personalize our plant medicines and our medicines from the natural world they impact us
00:54:29.260so much more deeply I think if people want something to maybe think about this season
00:54:33.320thinking of a practice that can really deepen your connection so that you're fully engaging
00:54:39.820and thinking about reciprocity I'm making this mead and is there something I can do to help them
00:54:46.300or help the bees I love that how long do you let your mead sit this is very practical but
00:54:53.000yeah no it's it's a good question um it really depends um i will usually do about seven days
00:55:00.380so what you'll do is you'll shake it up don't worry if all the honey doesn't like like use
00:55:04.800room temperature water that's kind of like the big thing right room temperature water honey
00:55:08.980plant stuff shake it once or twice a day open the lid and check it make sure you know everything's
00:55:16.280looking good you might want to strain the plants out after a few days you know like it's depending
00:55:21.740what you're using that can be really you know that can vary and then just check it and I mean
00:55:26.300once it tastes the way you want it to taste it's done there's no right answer and so you know if I
00:55:31.720want something that's not really boozy at all I'll just let it go a few days but like most of the
00:55:37.080time I make it you know maybe like four to seven days and it's like a little booze but not like
00:55:41.960punchy if you want to make wine um use like use a good amount of honey so like I will do I usually
00:55:51.760do like an eight to one ratio of water to honey if you want to make wine maybe do like a six to one
00:56:00.560um and yeah just let it sit until like stir it or shake it every day until it stops bubbling
00:56:07.160and then i mean that means it's it's kind of done getting as boozy as it's gonna get unless you do
00:56:13.600some other kind of more futsy stuff but it'll be if it's not like you know actually like wine
00:56:20.240wine like it'll still be pretty strong like you can make like a definitely strong enough to kind
00:56:26.080of do something mead in a jar i love your recipes just shake it until it tastes good and then maybe
00:56:34.060bubbles aren't there yeah it's all like you know there's no such thing as failure even if it
00:56:40.920doesn't work you learn something right like I've like I've had meads grow like all kinds of crazy
00:56:45.680mold because I like forgot to shake them and stuff and I'm just like well now I have learned
00:56:49.980remember to shake your things here you go garden have some delicious new mold delicious just for
00:56:57.440you I love it so much it's really empowering I actually wrote about you and about the first
00:57:05.200mead I made in our next book and this feeling of like and being on a on a coven circle and just
00:57:11.200drinking the the you know the jar of my yellow mead and just just being totally like um
00:57:18.720what's a more i i felt i felt inhabited the next day i felt i felt in community and you know i had
00:57:29.340been in a circle of community but i felt like my my cells were moving around to make more space
00:57:35.120for for community you know yeah no i like that idea it reminds me of i was talking with sophie
00:57:42.520strand for an issue of the newsletter and she was saying how she was like if you ever want to
00:57:47.980experience you know the magic of microbes she's like drink a glass of wine and just feel kind of
00:57:52.660like feel how you feel like you're vibrating like it really it can really make you feel like
00:57:59.760very much in touch with that and yeah it's it's really special like community on the micro and
00:58:06.340macro level totally thank you again so much for your time I already can't wait to have you back
00:58:12.620yay yes thank you so much for having me it was so good to see you again i know you too always
00:58:20.680someday we'll make our road trip happen we will we will dance in the moonlight somewhere on a hill
00:58:27.160yes that would be very fun i want to i want to eat the uh traveling friendship ferment that you make
00:58:34.440someday i'll bring you strange things from our northern gardens excellent yeah it's it's
00:58:42.040definitely like really funky now like it's good it's good it's just yeah it's it's definitely
00:58:49.760really uh it's going strong it's going strong thanks again thanks everyone for being here
00:58:56.840and for listening check out julia skinner's incredible book our fermented lives
00:59:03.140pre-orders are open now love you guys be safe blessed fucking be0.99