00:20:22.040There were years right where I could not say your name.
00:20:25.000I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California,
00:20:27.440to interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can to try to find out
00:20:32.420what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods
00:20:36.780and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of
00:20:42.440to come around here and my wife. Boom, boom. This is The Red Weather. Listen to The Red Weather1.00
00:20:49.920on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:20:57.440so i actually didn't do any thinking on the break um nor did i but i'm very excited about i am sort
00:21:05.080of levitating in my seat because i get very very excited when we get to talk about words okay no i
00:21:10.580mean i guess what i'm saying is that you know not just the adjective thing right but uh what's the
00:21:15.940word conjugating a verb like anytime you do one that's a little bit unfamiliar or isn't the thing
00:21:21.640that people are always doing okay like the derivation there's some satisfaction so like
00:21:25.400even like getting something out without stuttering like pursuant okay if you were like like to switch
00:21:31.300something into pursuant versus you know pursuing or something right yeah there's a little bit of
00:21:36.600like there's like a satisfying flex of like pursuant you know this is like i'm having a i'm
00:21:40.700having an add moment because you said conjugate and then i got flooded with the memory of being
00:21:44.680in latin class in the seventh grade and i was completely unable to do latin i could not figure
00:21:48.960it out and interesting the sweet sweet latin teacher dr a who was this guy who had an album
00:21:54.860had a bongo album oh who was like really sweet sorry education or no shockingly but he uh i just
00:22:03.060want to say quickly that he was so positive and like really was such an angel and he would give
00:22:07.400people a pluses and the school had to come down on him and say you cannot give a pluses you can
00:22:12.500give a's but you cannot give a pluses and i remember seeing him in his office whiting out
00:22:17.180the pluses off the uh no like whiting out the little he wasn't allowed to give a single a plus
00:22:22.660or he was like you can't give any plus like because you know and so this this but this this
00:22:28.580vision of him whiting out the pluses was like really went in me and i just i haven't thought
00:22:33.880about it in so long it's one of the most beautiful things i've ever witnessed no that reminds me of0.88
00:22:39.120i mean deeply sad on your deathbed kind of shit you know just to see all the pluses that got wiped0.79
00:22:43.560out or don't you think we meet the same person over and over like he's reminding me of this other0.99
00:22:48.060person i knew and this kind of goes into we're talking about past life stuff but like you kind
00:22:51.960of fall in love with the same person over again right or like we're all i like there is this thing
00:22:56.180of like the singular person that we keep chasing or and obviously that's like oh well we try to
00:23:00.640fall in love or we try to have intimate relationships to heal the wounds of our childhood
00:23:04.800and to kind of right you know our belief that we got to get it we can get it right this time with
00:23:08.620this person but there is something about that that's like one person or these archetypes or
00:23:13.800these like or like when you make a new friend and they remind you of an old friend or you have a
00:23:18.080kind of a shared intimacy that feels so immediate like you've known them before like what is that
00:23:21.720how much do you read jacqueline i'm experiencing a return to literature i actually return to
00:23:29.220fiction is 2021 i thought the return to fiction is 2021 and i have to say again because we are
00:23:35.140of course hovering oh so gently around the idea of add never to arrive because that would it's
00:23:39.320too hard for us but i did tease in the last episode that i was going to deactivate twitter
00:23:44.820i did i repeat i did not that i'll never return but i deactivated it's done i deactivated you're
00:23:51.100I'm gone. I mean, I will return, but I can't anymore. And I'm also I'm on Instagram. I log on for Poog related stuff or to sign in. You know, I do a quick sign in every time. I can't do it anymore. And I do want to return to fiction. Wait, what was I going to return to fiction? Oh, oh, yeah. And I'm just wondering, Jacqueline, because you you're a writer, you're one of the great minds. And I'm just wondering, I'll silently allow fiction. Are you consuming?
00:24:17.980you know um i always want to read fiction and then i get suckered back to non-fiction i'm
00:24:27.220constantly non-fiction also constantly no i'm non-fiction all the time um because fiction
00:24:32.660can't advertise its own ideas okay in the same way i mean you could say yes it's love it's loss
00:24:39.720it's life on the prairie or whatever okay describing the ultimate propaganda i would
00:24:44.280argue continue of course okay but it doesn't sell me in the same way where a book that says
00:24:49.780for example i saw it posted by elise from goop mary magdalene revealed and i had ordered it within
00:24:57.520within five minutes mary magdalene revealed obviously i've been interested in the magdalene
00:25:02.320for some time the magdalenian understandings of desire well just magdalenian magdalenian is
00:25:10.200Well, Mametian last week, obviously, was a revelation.
00:27:07.620Okay. Anyway, it's not hysterical. Very romantic. You actually don't seem that impressed. Yeah, I guess. Which I guess I should say, because I'm so vulnerable immediately after showing me that I blind myself to any. No, I blind myself to the negative. He was swept up, but it didn't make me feel negatively of you. I just was trying to like, I guess I wasn't as moved by the idea that he was. I mean, there I mean, it is romantic. I meant it. No, no, no. It's not romantic. I just I think it's funny.
00:27:36.020okay i think it's funny that entire town thinks you're dead and you were just caught up in a bit
00:27:40.120of reading yeah that's it the town's obsessed with it i don't know i don't know why i love it
00:27:44.620yeah why do i love it why do i think it was worth sharing okay i'm thinking about it right now no
00:27:49.360yeah i mean maybe i just didn't do as good a job as whoever told it to me but there's something in
00:27:55.020me no there is something but i never forgot it yeah the town thinks you're dead because you're
00:27:59.660not at the place you usually are that people could sit their watch by god that's comforting
00:28:03.920I mean that's why I long for community okay long desperately for it so here I am off social media
00:28:10.280right obsessed with community I went to the park the other day alone to read like a 19th century
00:28:16.440whore yeah and I was well you know I mean we can get into that later but reading is one of my0.98
00:28:23.140primary fantasies of my saloon whore yeah thing it's being able to read between the johns oh my0.99
00:28:28.080god of course of course it's it's the true room of one's own yeah because you're the kids aren't0.99
00:28:31.780waiting i need to honestly i'm humiliated i really have barely read any wolf virginia yeah
00:28:37.420virginia yeah virginia i didn't know if you meant tom no i just i don't know for some reason hearing
00:28:44.300wolf alone how much wolf are you like a to the lighthouse kind of a gal no no i've read like
00:28:49.900i think i read a room of one's own when i was you know i zygote but isn't a room of one's own
00:28:55.580is the Roman zone just an essay it's just is it a single essay that I feel like it's a single essay
00:29:02.200inside of it's a thin thin one of those thin book essay books that was then of course republished
00:29:07.380as a boy I wanted to say oh okay I did want to say about the community thing which I do long for
00:29:12.180I was in the park the other day reading and then I realized I found some shade but it was quite hot
00:29:17.540out and I've been reading for like maybe an hour and then I realized I was getting really hot and
00:29:21.780I looked at I glanced out of my hand and my veins were kind of pulsing like bulging out of my hand
00:29:26.660in a scary way and I went well that's not good and then I started to kind of get nervous and go
00:29:30.100am I about to pass out no because I just I just I realized I was just I had a hot head like I
00:29:34.680was been sitting not in the direct sun but it was like a macbook laptop top yeah I start to overheat
00:29:40.520and I start scanning the I start scanning the meadow looking who's gonna save me and I had to
00:29:45.340calm myself down I said Kate fascinating you can get up yes corona you know everyone's masked you
00:29:50.360can get up and go hi i think i'm about to pass out like can you take care of me fascinating
00:29:54.340and good for you self-soothe i just don't i don't sit around thinking i'm about to have an aneurysm
00:29:59.880yeah whereas i do now and it's not just because you know what's the point kind of thing um i'm
00:30:05.080fascinated by how you always think things are going wrong in your body when you have almost
00:30:08.740no medical issues well ocd but yeah i know i have to but i was right but then i started scanning i
00:30:15.080was like okay who do i know who's home right now who's in the area who could i call you know like
00:30:19.220I started doing that. And then I had the urge to call someone to anchor me. But then I thought,
00:30:24.500no, you know what, we're going to push the discomfort. I didn't pass out. And I was able
00:30:27.660to leave the park, though I was quite hot. It sounds like a okay, so you were reading the
00:30:32.720part for a while because it sounds like the sort of completely like a laughable tale of woman
00:30:37.000decides to go to the park. Okay, okay. To experiment with this thing they call reading
00:30:42.000or whatever. And then you know, finds our head overheating and leaves before the books even
00:30:45.820the spine's been cracked well that's more my style that can you believe you used to have to
00:30:49.700knife your way into books what do you mean you have to cut the pages to get in you know what i'm
00:30:54.560talking about no i don't have you seen this okay like the way like i guess like a brand new book0.98
00:30:58.680they were sealed with wax no it wasn't even that it was like fuck i don't know i'm gonna need i'm0.58
00:31:04.120gonna need this googled now but it's like a thing where the side that would be normally open you've0.93
00:31:09.240like cut the leaf you can't be cutting them all right it must just be you cut down and then it
00:31:13.040opens i don't know it's a bit confusing i mean i've experimented with book binding here with my
00:31:17.980um you know of course with my with my printing things out you know double-sided try and make
00:31:22.400little booklets for my own productivity that's sort of a joke but i mean it's literally true
00:31:26.820i just i printed out those things i was just showing the small quarter size of a page oh so
00:31:35.500printing out a large document i may make them small make them small so it's four pages on a
00:31:40.380single page and then slice them and then move them around and experience them as less overwhelming
00:31:45.700okay so this is all what you're describing the book binding my going to the park to read and
00:31:51.540then being overcome with the fear of an aneurysm these are all ways to avoid i i hear you right
00:31:57.380okay and i but i have had to uh radically jettison okay this notion from my life okay which is which
00:32:05.380is the that oh that's not the focus that's the stuff getting in the way of the focus right
00:32:10.260no I love that I love your approach life contains okay life contains opposing um forces no and you
00:32:17.480and I I think you and I also are friends because we both right that's kind of our preferred mode
00:32:22.380I'm always my whole life I'm oh I long for routine I long for structure but it's like you don't I
00:32:27.880actually don't know if I work well within that system I love having to be somewhere every day
00:32:32.480yeah but like I I'm actually okay with just reclining on the couch for six days I enjoy
00:32:38.940the interplay okay of trying to contain i i had this realization about um about life okay but
00:32:48.220about something about my experience of something okay which is and it was around an ice cream cone
00:32:51.900but it applied to more okay it was about the the pleasure of eating an ice cream cone for me
00:32:56.540involves the attempt to um contain catch up stay present to the cone okay because because the cone
00:33:03.740asks you the cone demand will not wait yeah yeah yeah the cone the cone will not wait it demands
00:33:09.520focus you better eat it now god i want one every lick is catching a potential um fall it's in the
00:33:15.860process of decay much like language itself yes again so if you want to if you want to enjoy it
00:33:20.020you better you better get in there right and it's this containment it's management it's it's it's
00:33:25.560keeping the cone alive long enough to consume the and it's grief it's grief and it's lost because
00:33:30.540it's so beautiful it's handed to you and you're constantly having to reckon with the fact that
00:33:34.140it's it's dying and yet you're still experiencing no it's dying and so so press your lips against
00:33:39.140the drying rose petals you know or whatever right so to me there's that energy and i love that
00:33:44.260energy right and i would relatedly make that kind of driving up so there's this i'm saying
00:33:51.700containment that's not quite it okay but just go with containment for the moment right and then i
00:33:55.900was thinking about at the end of the ice cream chrome when it's finished in the sense of loss
00:33:59.000OK. And the moment of loss at the end of the ice room, what is that? And why does it feel so devastating? Right. And I realized it's because in those moments, I'm only remembering the joy of containment of a thing where there is another joy and it's a different process. OK. And it's it's conjuring. OK. So here's what it is. I realized, like, I also enjoy the conjuring elements of life where you have nothing and you create something.
00:34:31.280There is something that's bigger than me that I'm trying to contain in order to experience, right?
00:34:38.280And the ice cream cone happens, it's happening, it's go, and you've got to rise to the occasion to get as much of it as you can, kind of.
00:34:46.420And that's great, and I love that feeling.
00:34:48.360And then it's gone, and it's sad, and suddenly I want another thing to contain.
00:34:50.840I'm forgetting that there's another thing I enjoy, which is the conjuring of something out of nothing.
00:34:54.780So so the eating the ice cream is is making us making is capture is it's I guess eating right eating is eating is these are like elemental and abstract to me.
00:35:08.900And I really like it felt like a huge realization.
00:35:11.560And it's like I'm trying to figure it out.
00:35:13.480No, I feel like something's there and I want it's like I remembered that I was really meditating at the start on the sorrow at the end of the ice cream.
00:35:20.340Right. And I would say always with eating and I want it to go endlessly.
00:35:24.240okay i want it to go on right right and so it would almost be like right the sadness of taking
00:35:29.740down the christmas tree and the blankness of the new year let's say right and it's like well
00:35:33.800oh wait i forgot the other kind of joy i enjoy is it is dead is a deadness is a nothingness
00:35:41.440that i am gonna work to pull something to create life out of it's not containment containment is
00:35:47.840something overwhelming that you're trying to sip off a part of right you're trying to get it while
00:35:52.180you can't you need the ice cream cone to to be gone you is that what you're saying you need to
00:35:57.320arrive at the sadness of the cone no but that's i'm not no right but it's not yeah it's um it's
00:36:04.180wait let me just see if i have a have have the metaphor okay let me just try it one more time
00:36:09.480and and i and all right so so let me start with my the original thought process okay and i wrote
00:36:14.420like 30 pages on so it's in there somewhere okay because i was like and i was like jesus this is
00:36:18.780like exhausting me writing about this ice cream cone like and that's my like ocd i became obsessed
00:36:23.120with like and i picture it outside of this place that you know i had ice cream growing up whatever
00:36:28.480all right what i'm specifically talking about with the ice cream cone is the fact that it's
00:36:34.020an unfolding experience in time that you are on its schedule okay okay it is not still it is
00:36:42.260happening and you you you you can either show up for it or not right like you can you have and
00:36:48.180every every lick of the ice cream cone is to prevent you know you you look at the parts that
00:36:52.980are melting right yeah you're you're so you're containing and you're maintaining the existence
00:36:57.360of the ice cream cone through it as it sort of dies and it's a it's it's you're helping it die
00:37:02.420yeah but that that's i mean that is all incredibly metaphorically interesting but it's i'm just
00:37:07.420isolating this one point okay which is um there's something there and you're trying to sip off of
00:37:13.120it you're trying to you're trying to there's a there's a there's a kind of it's like it's hunting
00:37:19.040versus it's not creative it's it's consuming okay but i also enjoy when there is nothing
00:37:29.860and i have to create something out of that deadness so it's like i enjoy both but i forget
00:37:35.400that I also enjoy that other side while I'm while I'm finishing the ice cream cone so it's like
00:37:41.080it's like it's like my ADD or my whatever you want to call it my brain like thinks like okay
00:37:48.080so I just had an ice cream cone I loved that experience I need to have that again and again
00:37:51.700and again and I want to do it until the only thing that will kick me off of eating anything
00:37:55.840that I'm enjoying is you know nausea it's it's only nausea will get me there okay pain in the
00:38:01.740stomach certainly won't i can tolerate pain you know what i mean yeah so it's like i don't know
00:38:06.460uh maybe we'll maybe i'll cover it on a future poog i'll pull out the ice cream cone essay or
00:38:11.520whatever um i want to know though what you mean about this enjoying the other i mean that there
00:38:16.900are like licking a plate till it's clean okay you know and then okay it's done i've consumed it
00:38:23.740that was great so here's what here's here's here's what i'm saying some certain things that
00:38:28.720are wonderful and to be enjoyed are diminishing in real time they have to be you have to step up
00:38:35.680and and they will not wait right the the fresh the ice cream cone will not wait melting yeah
00:38:41.780freeze it and those have their own weird kind of um frankenstein sort of uh they do have their own
00:38:48.040weird disgusting but but deliciousness like a like a you ever have one of those supermarket
00:38:53.240frozen ice cream cones the way the waffle is like melted and soft it's its own like perversion that
00:38:58.540has its own pleasure to it i will say okay but so it's just it's this wealth of of something and
00:39:04.380you're you're you're hurrying to to enjoy it to take it in to to consume it to right it's not
00:39:10.240going to last it's that kind of spirit what will wait for you what does wait for you what is not
00:39:15.920on the like like a melting ice cream cone is here and now in the physical plane is happening
00:39:22.940it's one one part of life right is things dwindling and you better get them or not right
00:39:27.820the other part of life that will wait for you and i tend to often prefer is you know sort of the dead
00:39:34.560the dead endlessness of infinite possibility it just sits there right um nothingness is is
00:39:41.600has the potential to you make something out of it so it's like right okay and i and i to make
00:39:48.600myself at peace at the end of the ice cream cone i have to remind myself that i also enjoy
00:39:52.300conjuring energy so there's there's containing or consumption energy that obviously i get a great
00:39:59.580deal of pleasure out of but there's also conjuring energy i get pleasure out of you mean and is the
00:40:05.620conjuring energy you sitting there going i want an ice cream cone i want another ice cream cone
00:40:10.260no it's more like it would in this example it would be more like okay well i'm sad that ice
00:40:15.100cream cone's over not okay now i need to create an ice cream cone but you know what's better you
00:40:20.700know a melting ice cream in one room you have a melting ice cream cone okay in the other room
00:40:25.240you have nothing okay this is that let's put it that way right an empty room with a chair
00:40:30.540another room an empty room with a chair and um an ice cream cone okay now now the ice cream cone
00:40:36.540room you're allowed five minutes in okay the nothing room you're allowed and infinite time
00:40:42.480in an eternity in yeah yeah is that death isn't the room in which nothing happens and it lasts
00:40:49.560for eternity the state of death of personal death you're seeing life not itself an ice cream cone
00:40:56.480how can you enjoy the nothing you're seeing in the nothingness and in the death you don't have
00:41:01.660potential i'm just actually pushing back a little bit on the idea in general i don't think we can
00:41:07.160use any of that no i know we can't i know and by the way i have to pee let's break
00:41:12.060this is writer strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather it was many and many a
00:41:29.340year ago in a kingdom by the sea in 1995 my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune
00:57:13.960Yeah. And I if you're if you if dealt with depression at any point in your life, I just, you know, which can be a kind of shut off of emotion when they come. You must let them. You must.
00:57:25.200Yes. So I don't know that it'll probably happen more and more. And actually, the more comfortable I get. That's the other thing. Like the more and more like I'm so comfortable here with you that then the tears come.
00:57:35.720yeah i hope i don't know maybe that maybe this maybe this section maybe my crying will not be
00:57:39.920on the episode i don't know if i think i think your crying is is radical i think people need
00:57:44.360to hear you cry and you rejoicing in the crying and laughing through the crying crying should be
00:57:49.620more people should openly cry much more i think as a society we would have more potentially love
00:57:58.860for ourselves and each other if we could just openly weep right i mean i think it would be a
00:58:03.980good time to plug my book actually if we may uh could be a good natural plug for my book i will
00:58:09.860say my book's called how do weep in public in case you forgot and it's fantastic those of you
00:58:15.360listening book plug it's too embarrassing but i just felt like it was almost weird that i
00:58:18.480because i realized we're talking extensively about and i'm not mentioning it like it's like
00:58:22.680was this all a big fake fake book ad whatever
00:58:26.440that was poog if you enjoyed poog please subscribe rate and review if not we will press charges
00:58:37.240this is rider strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather in 1995 my neighbor
00:58:47.840and a trainer disappeared from a commune it was nature and trees and praying and drugs