Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Sleep Attack

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00:00:34.920 Hi, I'm Kate Berlant.

00:00:36.480 I'm Jacqueline Novak.

00:00:37.580 And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends.

00:00:42.300 Two untamable intellects.

00:00:44.080 This is our hobby. 0.97

00:00:44.920 This is our hell.

00:00:45.780 This is our naked desire for free products.

00:00:48.060 This is POOG.

00:00:49.480 Today's topic, loosely speaking, La Mer.

00:00:52.740 Felicity.

00:00:53.680 Dying upright. 0.93

00:00:56.980 Oh, wow.

00:00:58.080 Hi, Jacqueline.

00:00:59.160 Okay. I furiously, frantically poured a cold brew, which is pretty shocking. We're clocking

00:01:05.260 in at 4.30 p.m., a cold brew at this time of day. Oh, boy. And I sort of knew, oh, this is

00:01:10.080 going to be bad for me. It's going to keep me up. I slept 11 hours last night. What's wrong with

00:01:14.800 being up? Well, you know, historically, I've always felt I need to wake up one hour past

00:01:20.500 the opposite hour at which I went to bed. So if I went to bed at 8, I'm not truly rested until

00:01:26.620 nine a.m. Nine. I need to go to one in ideal circumstances. What's your hour? Because I find

00:01:35.260 for me, seven and a half hours is great. Nine hours is great. It actually kind of just sets

00:01:41.360 me off. I heard once that seven and a half hours is actually more restful than eight hours. I know

00:01:47.400 what you're thinking. Half hour. Yeah, it's actually no, I'll tell you exactly what it is.

00:01:51.780 it needs to be it's an hour and a half

00:01:53.840 slash three hour cycles

00:01:55.500 I believe

00:01:56.220 I was one of the early researchers

00:01:58.720 of sleep therapies

00:02:02.420 various modalities

00:02:04.060 of course you know between

00:02:05.560 99 and 2004

00:02:06.920 just personal work

00:02:09.200 I ordered from Switzerland

00:02:11.580 one of the first

00:02:13.520 smart sleep

00:02:15.880 things it was like

00:02:17.120 you put it on your wrist

00:02:18.900 it's a piece of technology that

00:02:21.200 no one had but me okay and it was before the apple watch before all this okay there's a little thing

00:02:26.700 you put on your wrist and it sensed where you were in your sleep cycle in order to awaken you

00:02:31.480 this was because i had profound sleep issues known as it would shake you awake like what do

00:02:37.960 you mean no it was just it was an alarm but it waited until the right moment in your cycle

00:02:42.040 oh you could tell whether you were finishing up rem sleep i've always found it embarrassing that

00:02:47.620 REM sleep okay that it's pronounced REM like it's you know rapid eye movement section of sleep okay

00:02:55.160 like it's obviously REM but like they've gotten sloppy and just they're calling it REM which I

00:03:00.060 find humiliating do you know what I mean like stick with the acronym I mean whereas I get it

00:03:04.820 see I didn't know you used to struggle with sleep I'm blessed with the gift of sleep famously as a

00:03:09.600 baby they would have to wake me up to feed me get ready Kate no I suffer from hypersomnia oh I did

00:03:15.920 know this about you what am i talking about the 27 hour sleeps uh the sleep attacks i would have

00:03:19.880 that i then went it would you know miss the day job for 27 hours yeah not 27 hours okay and when

00:03:27.300 you say you mean you're going to sleep and then you wake up 27 hours late so here's what would

00:03:30.900 happen okay there would be there would be moments where well i just want to say if there's an

00:03:36.700 earthquake in the next 10 minutes i sense one coming now i just want to say that now okay so

00:03:40.320 as a kind of um just because i would hate to have this thought i would hate to have a feeling like

00:03:45.440 this like is an earthquake about to happen and then it happens and no one will ever believe me

00:03:48.040 and i just want to say and i'm sorry and i really don't want an earthquake but i did the last kind

00:03:52.280 of not major earthquake but there was an earthquake in la several months ago that really gave a shake

00:03:57.140 like i'm from la and i for many you know i was reason i moved it was long enough to be like hello

00:04:01.980 it was scary i was completely nude i had nothing to do i wait hold on i just want to say the last

00:04:07.620 earthquake i the night of the earthquake around 9 p.m i was like all we need right now is an

00:04:12.440 earthquake and i had this earthquake feeling mere hours later a rumble was heard okay so i'm just

00:04:17.460 saying that if no i'm excited for you what i hope i'm wrong but i just we'll just see can you imagine

00:04:23.320 if within the recording one hit you didn't feel the one a few months ago there was a big one i

00:04:28.780 mean it wasn't the big one by the way another concept i'm obsessed i can't go into the big one

00:04:33.520 i can't go into the big one absurd i've lost too much sleep over the big one okay but no but i

00:04:38.420 moved because here's what happened so there was there was an earthquake at my last apartment

00:04:41.520 this one really shook me oh god oh i just want to say about no pun intended by the way i just

00:04:47.260 want to say about no pun intended okay okay there's no more saying no pun intended okay 0.90

00:04:52.140 because what everybody means by no pun intended is pun intended that's what they fucking mean

00:04:58.600 okay or they mean um it's clearly a celebration and a leaning into the pun which is why i 0.63

00:05:04.540 commit to and i know i sort of didn't just do it now but i commit to just if i accidentally make

00:05:11.040 you know a pun okay i'm just gonna stone face it right on through you know what i'm saying yeah 0.95

00:05:16.840 of course carry the fuck on you're not a pun person exactly the lowest form of humor some 0.99

00:05:23.360 say sarcasm is the lowest yeah yeah i remember someone said that once oh sarcasm what i deplore 0.99

00:05:31.140 sarcasm oh well no i mean earnesty you know is um or do i i mean i don't know we love sarcasm

00:05:37.220 We love it. I don't take me back. Sorry. I interrupted you. I love it. It fills me. Thank

00:05:43.660 you. But I do want to bring you back to what you were saying, because I was riveted about your 27

00:05:47.960 hour sleep. So, of course, I've always loved sleep. OK, I remember as a child not wanting to

00:05:54.360 go to school and just because I wanted to sleep. And my mother saying you can sleep when you get

00:05:57.960 home. And I would be like, like after school, you can get back in bed. OK. And I was like,

00:06:05.180 but i won't want to then you know what i mean i want you as my daughter always goes back to that

00:06:09.460 for me please reincarnate as my daughter but i don't want you to have to die for me to have you

00:06:14.620 imagine just just knife to the throat i get control of my soul in such a fashion this is 1.00

00:06:20.040 where i can knife it to the throat and immediately drop into your emerging uterus baby yeah body 0.99

00:06:27.500 leaping all right amazing so whatever sleeping right so yeah i'd have these sort of sleep attacks 0.98

00:06:33.160 where I'd go to sleep or I'd fall asleep

00:06:35.360 in kind of a state of stress, I guess you could say.

00:06:37.500 And then I would be deep in the sleep

00:06:39.580 and then there would be these times

00:06:40.580 where I sort of come to, okay?

00:06:42.840 What time is it?

00:06:45.080 I look at it, it's like light out or it's dark out

00:06:48.380 and I can't interpret what it means,

00:06:50.340 you know what I mean?

00:06:51.020 And then I'm like, oh no, how long have I been asleep?

00:06:55.120 And then out again, okay?

00:06:56.720 Out again.

00:06:57.180 So that's the key.

00:06:58.020 So then I'm out again.

00:06:58.740 Then years pass, okay, because in the dream

00:07:00.740 it would often be these sort of epics right years past inside of the dream is what i'm saying okay

00:07:06.300 yeah i live a life you know it's a whole thing we know about this you know i go to that comedy

00:07:11.080 club in ohio and my dreams cake that only exists there and there's a sense of urgency there's also

00:07:16.620 a sense of i haven't completed the dream and so i need to go back to it but anyway i'd be pulled

00:07:20.600 back under so it was it was like you know i was only surfacing but my body was still under surfacing

00:07:25.760 to get a breath of conscious life and then sucked back through the undertow of sleep drop down again

00:07:31.400 almost hypnotizing me into sleep i feel like i can fall asleep right now i do have that

00:07:35.420 talking about it like this all right

00:07:37.000 no right pulling pulling into the sleep i slept so long no right the 11 hours again this okay well

00:07:47.700 the whole thing is when you hit 11 sometimes now you're even more tired exactly although it's euphoric

00:07:51.460 so this maybe i'd wake up maybe i wouldn't but eventually sort of come to and i would have to

00:07:55.740 roll out of bed literally okay to wake myself i i had to force myself to fall off the bed

00:08:02.240 you see what i'm saying so a hard thought on the ground would help the process right and then i

00:08:05.900 remember specifically in new york stumbling down to the well first i'd see the roommate on the way

00:08:11.900 out and they'd go oh my god i guess you didn't go to work today and i would start to plan my email

00:08:17.180 to the ad agency and and there were so many issues and it was like you know it was like

00:08:22.360 The period of depression and and related issues. Right.

00:08:26.020 And the effect on things like not going to work.

00:08:29.300 You go through the phase or I went through the phase of, you know, long apologies, explaining, trying to explain the whole thing.

00:08:37.480 And then you move past that where you're just like and you just get to this point of just like, OK, all I can do is apologize for my behavior and the effects it caused and let the chairs fall where they may.

00:08:48.100 Right. It's almost just like this sort of like I'd be like, so I slept through work.

00:08:52.360 obviously i was not there you noticed okay and then i like take out obviously it's like what

00:08:56.440 you know right right right it's like i slept for 27 hours i'm sorry i plan to be in tomorrow okay

00:09:04.600 and then it would make it harder to go back because i felt ashamed but anyway right right

00:09:08.920 anyway also sleeping through your alarm is one thing being like oh my god i just woke up but

00:09:12.640 sleeping the whole day yeah i mean there was and i'm working on it with a physician you know like 0.91

00:09:17.100 this kind of shit yeah it's exhausting right so so but yeah the 27 hours where i'd stumble 0.79

00:09:23.200 downstairs i remember going to the store in the corner and and vitamin water so i'd wake up with 0.99

00:09:28.120 this kind of thirst that could only be quenched by sugary drinks okay and i would i would pound

00:09:32.820 two vitamin water like you know when did vitamin water launch when was that because i feel like i

00:09:38.080 such a clear what when was that moment in like health and wellness because that's like right

00:09:42.640 before because it was the wellness industry wasn't right but it was like there's vitamins

00:09:47.340 in it and it's like sleep recharge energy beauty right it was all of them but then it's all just

00:09:52.240 laced with you know cyanide or whatever in a in a corner store in new york me staring at a vitamin

00:09:57.760 waters ingredients and and a man going like it's pure sugar it's very like but but the labeling

00:10:07.180 was genius because it had that kind of medical

00:10:09.340 Yes, the color block

00:10:10.980 slash. Yes. It reminds me of

00:10:13.160 Moby's music. I feel like Moby dropped an

00:10:15.160 album right when vitamin water came out or something.

00:10:17.540 Like, why do I disassociate with

00:10:18.960 Moby and vitamin water? Well, no, I think

00:10:21.100 you're actually right.

00:10:22.880 I think there

00:10:25.380 might have been a Moby

00:10:26.300 thing on one of the bottles.

00:10:29.760 Wait, wait, really? I think there were

00:10:31.140 a couple celebrity references. I'm googling

00:10:32.980 Moby vitamin water right now. Okay.

00:10:35.200 See what comes up.

00:10:37.180 I do. I'm going to make it. I'm going to do a Google as well, because I remember something else.

00:10:40.400 I want to check. Vitamin. I want to get the flavor right. That would be huge.

00:10:43.360 No, it's it's here's one of hers. Hold on. There's nothing.

00:10:47.360 Wait, wait, wait. Images from Moby vitamin water.

00:10:50.620 No, but you know what there is. There's nothing. Formula 50.

00:10:53.780 What? 50 cent.

00:10:56.680 There was a flavor called Formula 50 and it was a 50 cent.

00:10:59.560 Oh, I think I do remember that. Vitamin water.

00:11:02.420 Vitamin water. I'm looking at vitamin water ingredients.

00:11:04.600 No, the packaging, you know, you can't deny that they were first.

00:11:08.380 They were first.

00:11:09.020 They were on the ground floor.

00:11:09.960 They were on the ground floor of what has become standard, what has become sans serif.

00:11:14.040 And I only realized in listening back to Poogh that you asked on the last one when I was or one of them when I was talking about serif, serif, does it have serif about Juilliard's font?

00:11:24.880 OK. And you go like you go like what serif mean?

00:11:29.180 And I sort of didn't hear it astonishingly, fancy myself quite a listener.

00:11:32.560 okay and so yeah the serif a serif is a little thing on the side on the end of a letter that

00:11:37.220 gives it and so much of the kind of millennial pink font is sans serif now you know a helvetica

00:11:43.380 and ariel those have become hip when they used to be another embarrassment wait i really am

00:11:49.020 listening but i just distracted because i looked up formula 50 the the vitamin water formula 50

00:11:53.540 we're coming in at over 30 grams of sugar which is a coke and we're looking at like over 30 carbs

00:12:00.900 Anyway, we don't carb shame here.

00:12:02.760 No, but we know that I fear and revere carbs.

00:12:06.580 No, I don't fear the carbs.

00:12:07.940 I fear the natural flavors and the toxic ingredients.

00:12:11.060 But keep going.

00:12:11.360 God, you know, it's funny.

00:12:12.940 I just can't get...

00:12:14.280 Toxicity does not frighten me.

00:12:16.420 Whereas I am frozen in my boots, unable to move.

00:12:19.040 Yeah, of course it comes up.

00:12:20.740 Of course, you know,

00:12:21.460 hey, would you like the toxic one or the non-toxic one?

00:12:23.620 I guess first I'd ask, well, which one works?

00:12:26.000 You see, that's actually why I stop.

00:12:28.220 It's efficacy over.

00:12:29.660 listen i'm with you and we will and i want to circle back to everything that you're saying but

00:12:35.060 i texted you last night frantic because there was fragrance in a product that i was using

00:12:39.620 yes and i'm just like why put in the fragrance and also i think there's dye in it like i don't

00:12:45.560 understand right why add the fragrance because it's never going to smell good no no la mare

00:12:49.560 does have that nice do you know la mare's mystical history what do you mean okay i think you don't

00:12:56.440 then because this is this is pretty wild so la mer famously expensive cream yeah cream to the

00:13:01.820 stars famously expensive classically known expensive uh cream i've never uh very 90s

00:13:09.980 rodeo drive kind of feeling yeah do a little reading about la mer it turns out that the

00:13:16.620 reason la mer is so expensive is because it's spiritually charged no it's not who's charging

00:13:22.960 it it's cetaphil plus the crystal basically what are you talking okay not cetaphil it's um nivea

00:13:29.820 nivea oh yeah and you can basically dupe lamer with nivea i'm gonna look no no no no no lamer

00:13:35.920 hold on lamer french for the c okay i thought the whole thing about lamer was that it was

00:13:40.700 had algae and stuff in it and then i also heard that of course you can get in higher doses

00:13:44.980 well i read that the potency of lamer was was radically reduced every time you open

00:13:50.320 the freaking bottle which also goes for other products which leaves me breathless 0.96

00:13:54.480 i can't listen a tub is a tub is hell a tub and you're putting your finger in there you're 0.98

00:13:59.860 reintroducing bacteria every time i'd love to get some lamer um oh but instead of putting it in a

00:14:04.560 in a vacuum sealed thing that pumps air out as it pumps which i have ordered on amazon

00:14:09.200 in the past to transfer my goods into so that i'm getting so there's no oxidation happening okay

00:14:14.000 thank you very much incredible but oh hey um instead of giving me it in something that

00:14:17.700 maintains the ingredients of things could you give it to me in a petri dish with a lid thank you

00:14:21.200 every night what you do is you dip your fingers into it okay and you scoop it up and the benefit

00:14:27.960 is that when you're scooping the cream out of the pot okay you're putting bacteria

00:14:32.960 it's disgusting into the cream for next time it's really bad it's really bad additive so it's 0.58

00:14:39.840 additive from you that is so repulsive and by the way i'm really scared i'm really scared because 0.88

00:14:46.140 the biological share serums that i love yeah i once saw a video of this woman like a fancy woman

00:14:51.620 and she was taking out the serum with a syringe because she didn't want to open she didn't want 0.98

00:14:57.900 to formally open it and then rein and so it oxidized i mean she she was penetrating with

00:15:02.000 a needle penetrating with a needle taking it out and then pouring it onto her hand and i was so

00:15:07.360 i was so jealous i got news for her wet okay i got news for her well maybe i don't have news for 0.71

00:15:13.140 okay as the product depletes okay yeah as she sucks it out there's that air in there right

00:15:23.000 yeah but that's less air than you would get it took the cap off is it though i mean because

00:15:27.600 something's in there it's not a vacuum but the lamere but i thought okay but i thought there

00:15:30.540 was algae i thought there were their marine byproducts but i assume it's also it has to

00:15:34.980 be trash also it just smells mineral oil is its second ingredient okay hold on trash beyond and

00:15:41.160 patroletum is its third yeah that little thing is a laugh okay now algae does appear to be at

00:15:48.500 the top wait let me just let me just try to get a proper our ingredient list now if algae's at the

00:15:52.660 top you know i'm listening okay but the real thing that i read an article about that i cannot source

00:15:57.440 at the moment okay is that the big deal with original la mer had to do with some kind of

00:16:03.280 spiritual metaphysical infusion or blessing of the lotion which of course on one hand thrills

00:16:11.120 me it's so outrageous right it's so outrageous that it's almost like okay someone must have

00:16:16.200 accessed real magic because they weren't even promoting it they weren't even promoting the

00:16:21.180 fact that that's how it was done see this is like okay that's impressive they're like algae hey

00:16:26.080 three hundred dollars for algae okay this makes me think there was some real witchery going on

00:16:30.140 behind the scenes for them to not promote the witchery yeah their lawyers were like you can't

00:16:35.860 talk about that okay and they were like well then we'll have to trust that people will try the

00:16:39.200 product yeah their face will meet god okay wow there's maybe i'll start using okay here's the

00:16:45.040 thing though if you were me because now i'm haunted because there is a maybe a half used

00:16:49.300 jar of la mer that has been in my bedroom for like three years recommendation for where you

00:16:54.700 could use it on the bottom of the feet as i always suggest in the bottom of the feet

00:16:58.100 no i think first of all i have used old product knowing that it's filled with my own bacteria

00:17:03.580 okay before because i don't know i'm not that afraid of bacteria i'm not worried about bacteria

00:17:09.340 i'm not that afraid of acne but the point being oh you googled up it said after opening

00:17:15.840 use within six months the lamere yeah so it's going on my feet

00:17:20.800 well well well but here's what i want to say okay so what i've been doing recently because

00:17:26.660 some products come in yeah or face it's not gonna hurt you that's the real thing it's not

00:17:31.640 gonna hurt you no no she's gonna do nothing but and i want la mer for free oh but yes although

00:17:39.540 does that influence the magic like is going is imbuing the product you know if it's free

00:17:45.140 no you know we we talk about this a lot but is paying a magical ritual it imbues wait no but i

00:17:51.100 want to tell you about these bottles okay because this was a moment for me where i decided i'm not

00:17:54.360 going to let the fact the product might be good they might be too damn cheap to put it in a vacuum

00:17:58.720 sealed you know the proper container okay but but right it's another laugh these pots okay okay oh

00:18:05.420 roll off the top right because it's aesthetically pleasing it is you know it's the object is exciting

00:18:11.520 more than a punch screwing the top i think there's a real romance to that to the dipping your hands

00:18:16.480 in yeah i really like that but no it is so you need to order these things i ordered okay and

00:18:22.960 and what they are is some products already come like this and i appreciate that okay they care

00:18:27.180 about the ingredients that they put in there all right as it pumps yeah it's a vacuum chamber on

00:18:32.320 the inside yeah that moves with it that's cool okay that moves with it until it's empty and then

00:18:37.220 it starts again so there's that the other thing that i've been doing the one thing that's kind

00:18:42.100 of nice about the tub the pot and the fact you know you're supposed to use it pretty quickly

00:18:48.300 is that you can it forces you to use it um what's the word generously yeah for a generous amount of

00:18:55.400 blah blah blah on your fingers liberally so i scoop it up like half of it because i'm like i

00:18:59.380 have to i have to use this in two days like because it's just it's if i use this a little

00:19:03.260 bit every day for six years it's just this bacteria you know frenzy okay wow so there's that

00:19:10.240 um okay i'm gonna do some some of the mayor tonight but i did take you away from you were

00:19:15.800 talking about sleep school no we'll get into that after the break

00:19:18.480 okay so i i blame myself i took us off course but i do want to hear about what you were saying

00:19:30.880 about sleep school and good talking about skin again i know um it's where i go to hide from my

00:19:37.080 emotions is sensational in there yeah so wait did you say sleep school yeah i did interesting

00:19:43.800 why did i say that well sleep school is a great idea well you know what i did try to educate but

00:19:49.280 one time okay with all my various sleep issues one thing i tried to do once was i decided like

00:19:53.820 anything else you need to practice in this life okay to try to try to break habits whatever okay

00:19:58.500 and so i decided sorry on caffeine that i was going to practice this while i'm living at home

00:20:03.140 barely employed right i mean and yes i saw you admiring your own sweatshirted decolletage

00:20:11.500 decollete by the way very eager for lancers decollete contour fusion um what because it

00:20:20.100 has snail uh not snail mucin one of my favorite products of course but snail

00:20:24.320 a kono snail peptide synthetic uh peptide complex i'm dizzy i'm dizzy this week has

00:20:31.140 been all about snake and snail peptides for me but anyway snake oh yeah venom venom snail venom

00:20:38.040 cone snail venom and and synthetic so there's a product called sin ache then there's then there's

00:20:43.420 xcp30 or xcp18 i can't remember anyway say snake i just want to say kind of a healing mantra i i

00:20:49.960 think it's a ramdas thing but i like it it's about transformation and he says i think as ramdas you

00:20:54.680 can't rip the skin off a snake damn about like shedding you know and like a new skin oh and i've

00:20:59.940 been really liking that lately well that's that's very generous because i always think

00:21:03.420 well hey sure you can you want to rip this off yeah we're sure you can with a little grit

00:21:10.140 no i always want rapid transformation we all do i know it sucks that change takes time it's one of 0.81

00:21:16.100 the most devastating realities we have to face disgusting i have no interest in it i want it

00:21:20.700 beyond that now aren't we beyond um literally time-based unfoldings really quickly i want to

00:21:27.420 ask you do you find that your moods because i i don't know if i have like when i think about

00:21:32.840 myself and my moods like for example this morning i was driving and i had this moment of like

00:21:38.160 shocking euphoria like i was like it's all like i just felt i was like ah like i felt just like

00:21:43.000 completely imbued with like with like it's like magical gratitude slammed into a wall and then

00:21:49.160 running alongside that was like don't crash don't crash don't crash don't crash you know because i

00:21:52.600 was driving but i was like i'm sailing i'm sailing like i'm so grateful for this moment hold on you

00:21:56.780 know i think about like nietzsche you know like in the spoke sarah thruster or whatever this idea

00:22:00.780 of like the yes moment i think it's less focused there but the whole idea of like you have like a

00:22:05.040 yes moment in your life and it's like a steep affirmation of your own path and that all rows 0.51

00:22:09.960 have led to that and here you are and i had that and then like damn maybe 45 minutes later i was

00:22:14.260 like you know sad like 45 minutes later i had i was back and i was like oh no and i felt it

00:22:21.400 returning yes do you find that that happens to you well yeah i mean the efforts to maintain

00:22:29.020 you know a static and positive mood uh you know you can't do it and actually and we will talk

00:22:36.400 about this at some point i'm not sorry i don't want to do the on another episode thing but i

00:22:39.640 don't think we can get into it here because i'm not prepared but the menstrual the menstrual okay

00:22:44.060 oh yes embracing cyclical nature is very hard for me i want to be a diagonal line headed towards

00:22:49.580 greatness okay a perfect diagonal the road is not linear healing is not linear okay we make

00:22:55.840 and so you know it sucks but again i don't like change unfolding on time i want instant action

00:23:01.320 and that's why i so my only way to tolerate non-linearity even be or linearity being impossible

00:23:07.860 right pure line upwards is to accept the quantum okay and then that makes me think i can leap there

00:23:14.380 so there won't be a line i'll just be down here and then i'll be up there but things unfolding

00:23:17.740 in time is one of the greatest indignities okay i know anyway what wait i so but i wanted to react

00:23:23.760 your mood thing oh yeah there you are so that's is it spoke i thought it was spake

00:23:27.600 thus spoke there it's like thus spake zarathustra or something weird i believe it's spoke

00:23:32.720 but where the hell would i be getting spake wait i want to talk about the mood thing though okay

00:23:38.700 because this that is the horror of um any moment of peace right i know feeling it slip away is

00:23:46.760 is yes and and you you have to uh you have to find a way through that or life is hell okay

00:23:53.780 if life involves trying to um trying to sort of maintain a brittle fence around your joy

00:24:02.240 right patch it up quick quick before the pain comes in right now i know so i've always led

00:24:10.540 towards invite the pain in invite the pain in because the opposite's so heinous yeah yeah but

00:24:15.020 I don't also believe that that at times has led me to you know court and allow uh moods to take

00:24:22.380 me where maybe it would have been good I don't know it's just the relief it's the relief of

00:24:27.800 I felt such sublime relief today because I felt I was like wow it's remarkable like yesterday

00:24:32.540 around this time I felt like shit and then I was feeling good and then within that I have this 0.83

00:24:37.920 awareness of like see Kate moods change you are down now you're up you will be down again you know 0.93

00:24:43.020 we have to accept that uh that we're constantly in process right and this i mean that's the whole

00:24:48.140 in the whole and buddhism now i demand buddhism now right i'm like i have to that's really what

00:24:52.220 i have to do and because it's like we have to accept you have to you have to remember that

00:24:57.380 you're going to die and be reborn every day and you're going to suffer a million deaths and you

00:25:00.600 should choose to die many times in your life i'm silent because we should constantly transform

00:25:08.300 Of course. I mean, the answer is simply of course. I didn't know. It's so scary. It's so scary. We don't want to die, but we're going to every day. Well, and be and be born again. And I'm thinking about Michelle Pfeiffer now on a loop. Can't get her face out of my mind. Why? Why Pfeiffer? I don't know. I just love Michelle Pfeiffer. To me, she's kind of this like on my wall right now. She is. You're kidding. Why? In a Grease 2 poster. Oh, really? And I have embraced hanging posters in my office. OK, to remind me of the things that I love.

00:25:37.960 without shame okay i'm not hanging objet and and shit that means nothing to anyone but me okay

00:25:43.500 it's for me here and includes oh the posters i've got i've got two scrooged posters wow two 0.64

00:25:49.540 i wasn't sure which one was going to be better isn't that the true sign of youth like posterism

00:25:56.160 when all you're doing you went the way you connect to other people's through

00:25:59.980 the media you consume oh like isn't that kind of like the sign isn't that like when you start to

00:26:05.240 kind of grow up is when you

00:26:07.060 well one of the darkest things I ever witnessed

00:26:09.140 one of the darkest things I ever witnessed freshman year

00:26:11.300 at college I remember

00:26:12.400 the poster sale the annual

00:26:15.240 poster sale the fall and spring poster sale

00:26:17.340 I went and I actually have footage of it

00:26:18.840 what were they selling? It's like the poster brigade

00:26:20.960 comes to campus

00:26:22.520 sets up

00:26:23.620 in the Levy Center

00:26:26.900 or whatever okay in this big center

00:26:28.780 they set up all there and then there's just somber

00:26:31.160 sort of or you know just students

00:26:32.900 okay just paging through

00:26:35.240 And the posters are things that they know that the college people buy. So it's this limited collection. Right. It's like all the classics. And it's like Scarface. Amelie. Oh, yeah. And not just movies, not just movies. I mean, it's Chay.

00:26:54.440 i know oh my god of course classic of course the chase of course the animal house um yeah but i'm 1.00

00:27:01.980 trying to think of the other non-movie oh there's like this there's this image of these women from 0.68

00:27:06.860 behind maybe this is an album cover i know exactly yeah no it's yeah and they're painted their backs

00:27:11.320 are painted like yeah what what is that it's pink floyd isn't it are there like different pink floyd 1.00

00:27:16.140 albums painted on like naked women's backs i remember i used to be transfixed by their asses 0.99

00:27:21.200 and be like how does one procure such an ass and i felt like it was something i would never achieve 1.00

00:27:25.980 what fuck what are the real classics what's the like um to lose the track or what's the what's 0.99

00:27:33.040 the french one that's like we're shot okay i was just gonna say no i was just gonna say the cat 0.98

00:27:39.100 i was gonna say the cat before when you said to lose the cat yeah okay yeah and that's sort of

00:27:44.400 that one is everywhere that one's everywhere um it's you know it's it's actually one of the

00:27:49.400 hardest things to do in this society is to buy a poster okay um without crisis because i because i

00:27:55.260 and that's part of why i've been ordering them wildly um to free up the pressure that goes on

00:28:00.600 you know or you can have a single poster right i mean how do you buy art um how do you buy an art

00:28:05.380 print right with any dignity right so so because it's like unless you really know about art what

00:28:11.400 do you love to do there i am scrolling moma's gift shop okay talk about exit through the gift

00:28:16.300 shop the amount of time i spend at moma's gift shop moma's gift shop is is the museum for me

00:28:21.760 do you ever go to the one in soho yeah but online but yeah oh online yeah that store in soho gives

00:28:26.520 me a very specific winter that thick building that it's in winter in new york city that red

00:28:32.140 sort of brick of that building dean and de luca two blocks away two blocks away wait are you been

00:28:36.840 big on felicity no oh i only seen a couple laps i actually am getting emotional wait look i actually

00:28:44.400 think this is this is completely shocking i can't believe this a tear is starting to well i know

00:28:48.860 exactly is it excitement for me to watch it or just mere shock it's both it's also for me i think

00:28:54.940 i think the idea like you are such a pure friend for me and you bring out like childlike adolescent

00:29:01.920 joy in me and felicity was such an aspirational figure for me of moving to new york city and the

00:29:07.420 people that i would meet the friendships i would have and like that's fascinating i'm just thinking

00:29:12.200 about you and i'm thinking about felicity and i still want you to be my daughter it's just a lot

00:29:16.620 folding in right now but i think that okay felicity is a remarkable show okay carrie russell was one

00:29:21.640 of the finest actresses to have ever lived well i'm a big fan of the americans so just i haven't

00:29:27.320 seen a single frame but i'm sure it's well and matthew reese oh right i'm sorry cannot be beat

00:29:32.940 they got married correct i believe they did i don't know if they're together now she used to

00:29:37.900 married to a carpenter because i was like lucky bitch and then um she left all the carpentry 1.00

00:29:42.940 yeah and it's like yeah yeah all the carpentry lucky bitch gets a shelf whenever she wants it 0.99

00:29:48.580 coming home at the end of the day and the tables being sanded oh it's gorgeous you know something 0.81

00:29:51.920 about that and then oh it's gorgeous but then yeah i believe her and her co-star they uh

00:29:58.480 got together well they are brilliant the americans is wonderful when the actors date

00:30:03.820 other brilliant actors the other one i love what's the other one stan beeman was his character's

00:30:08.980 name noah i just want to acknowledge him because he isn't one of the two main guys he's just he's

00:30:13.760 a supporting actor and he's fantastic i can't help you because i haven't seen it yeah i'm sorry

00:30:17.660 chris remember stan beeman on the americans remember stan beeman yes from the americans

00:30:30.140 What was that actor's name?

00:30:31.280 Noah what?

00:30:33.940 Yes!

00:30:34.800 Emrick.

00:30:35.360 Noah Emrick.

00:30:36.080 He's genius.

00:30:37.100 And we would see him walking around.

00:30:39.440 You know, I won't name the neighborhood

00:30:40.400 because I don't want to give up where he lives,

00:30:41.700 but we'd see him and we...

00:30:43.020 I never got the chance,

00:30:44.400 but I just said,

00:30:44.940 love you on The Americans, you know?

00:30:46.140 Wow.

00:30:46.760 I think go for it.

00:30:47.620 And then last thing I'll say

00:30:48.500 for all the Felicity fans out there

00:30:49.640 was that my mother and I would watch Felicity together

00:30:52.520 every Wednesday night.

00:30:53.960 Yeah, Wednesday WB.

00:30:54.900 And eventually she saw Keri Russell

00:30:58.740 at the movie theater with Scott and KB.

00:31:01.960 What? 1.00

00:31:02.360 Because they were fucking. 1.00

00:31:04.180 Okay, Kate, this is not a goss cast, okay? 1.00

00:31:07.800 I want actors to feel safe listening

00:31:09.860 knowing that their secrets are not going to be revealed.

00:31:12.840 Skata, you will bleep that.

00:31:14.440 I've decided a key thing.

00:31:15.980 I would drop to my knees, baby.

00:31:18.240 We can start bleeping actors' names.

00:31:20.040 We can still have the conversations.

00:31:22.620 Scott lives, I just want to say Scott lives in the neighborhood.

00:31:25.500 Yours?

00:31:26.240 I saw him at the butcher.

00:31:27.200 do you know when you try to communicate to someone that you two should be in love and that you would

00:31:32.160 be in another if the circumstance were different like like giving in a quick like hello uh of course

00:31:36.520 it's not happening in this lifetime but yeah yeah or just like when you when you kind of like you

00:31:40.220 have a moment with someone you're like we're in love but we can't actually be but like we would

00:31:44.140 be and so i once had that moment although it was of course just for me going to him but we were at

00:31:49.480 i was at the butcher i saw him and i i feel like i'm sorry to continue the gossip train but i feel

00:31:55.720 like john early also saw him he lives in the neighborhood i was trying to not i was trying

00:32:01.700 to not reveal both of your someone could triangulate the facts okay slowly via you know i

00:32:07.660 just and i just want to say that his chemistry with kerry russell and felicity was completely

00:32:11.780 real and it was shocking and it leapt off the screen and we should all return to felicity to

00:32:17.360 remember what hour-long television used to be i have ideas that others think are bad okay that i

00:32:24.120 think are a genius which is like okay what if eight episodes of poog in a row were completely

00:32:28.440 devoted only to felicity now now many would say that's a terrible idea what if people don't like 0.99

00:32:33.320 that and then you have to listen to it for eight episodes well we'll separate the chif from the 0.99

00:32:37.400 chaff you know what i mean poog could in in season six for example the entire season is women who

00:32:44.180 run with the wolves chapter by chapter right someone commented and i just want to say thank

00:32:49.420 you for the comments okay i just want to say um you know really appreciating the dms although as

00:32:55.120 you those who have dm'd will note i have popped in there on occasion to say please post publicly

00:33:00.480 in the story so i can share with the other listeners ghost stories did in fact come in

00:33:04.300 ghost stories are coming in via dms and i am wow okay i will never screenshot against your will

00:33:09.340 but they are coming and i've created a highlight called ghost stories um submit your ghost stories

00:33:13.260 but what were you gonna say who knows well it's a great time in this sort of state of

00:33:19.260 unknowing to slip you into the ultimate place

00:33:21.340 of unknowing the question that is

00:33:23.080 what is modern American advertisement

00:33:25.180 okay so so I

00:33:34.980 feel I have to take responsibility I took us

00:33:37.160 on a huge Felicity

00:33:38.120 oh I love it but I just I really

00:33:41.160 Jacqueline I just I have to urge you I

00:33:42.960 really think you should watch it I just really think you should

00:33:45.280 I will I sometimes and it might be

00:33:47.100 something buried in there for you that you that

00:33:49.120 i can't even like i'm having some kind of real calling to tell you to watch felicity no it's

00:33:53.760 like i receive it it's so i receive that from you and some remarkable performances watching

00:33:59.360 people at school though like makes me long so much for like school experience that it um me too

00:34:08.140 it's it can be devastating i mean i still long to go to boarding school i know you know i just

00:34:15.200 i'm furious that i never got to go to boarding school i would have cried every night though

00:34:19.720 i'd want to go home missing home well i remember we once talked about like what would you do

00:34:24.860 if it was the end of the world like we all knew that you know the asteroid was gonna hit

00:34:28.800 yeah um in three days and you were like like run home to like crawl in my parents lap oh that was

00:34:34.480 you asked me we were talking about how we'd want to die and i said that i'd want to die

00:34:38.500 like in my parents bed but then on either side of me

00:34:41.960 or I want to die I know what I said I remember what I said I said I want to die in my mother's

00:34:47.380 arms yeah I remember that's what I said really interesting about dying but I think a hospice

00:34:54.940 nurse told this to me okay or told to my mother who told me something like something like this

00:34:59.800 but it was like it's not always lying there okay even when it's dying of illness okay what do you

00:35:05.640 I tend to think like all dying of illness, ultimately, the final moment is like lying on your back, half conscious, whatever.

00:35:13.880 OK, but someone, I think, at this hospice explained to my mother, like, no, like sometimes it's really active, like they're running around.

00:35:20.140 OK, like almost like sitting up, like literally like like like sitting up, being held like being held like and it's like almost like, yeah, this is how I heard it.

00:35:29.320 OK, so this could be totally not true, but let's just go with it for fun.

00:35:32.420 right it was almost like holding someone behind them the way you might hold i don't know okay and

00:35:37.160 it's like it's like and you're like they're sitting up and they're like oh and it's like

00:35:41.000 you can do it it's like die die you know what i mean like let go let go and you're like you're

00:35:45.820 like okay no that is amazing that's cool it's very very interesting and it's similar to

00:35:57.380 the way that we're not maybe we're not you know supposed to die on our backs okay maybe it's like

00:36:03.720 birth to die on your knees right you know how like you know well in a squat you know you're like

00:36:10.060 you're the natural position for birth squatting or whatever it's like the natural position for

00:36:15.140 everything yeah and it was like henry the eighth wanted to see his son come out of the his wife's 0.97

00:36:19.660 vagina so she got put on the on her back on a bed and therefore and that's why we still do it that 0.98

00:36:24.040 way yeah when all that does is like close up the tube this is the same as the squatty potty 0.74

00:36:27.880 another thing i was an early adopter of you were you were early squatty potty it's true i was an

00:36:31.940 early adopter of the squatty potty before the squatty potty exists you were literally i was

00:36:35.160 downloading pdf wood plans pdf wood plans to build my own okay okay when that was the thing you could

00:36:42.500 buy for five dollars the pdf wood plans anyway so wait the hospice though i'm really on the

00:36:48.620 hospice thing because that is that's remarkable wait on the what hops on the hospice oh oh like

00:36:53.040 Like of like of like dying, like screaming and someone being like, go, go, die.

00:36:57.640 Yeah.

00:36:58.200 No, no, no.

00:36:59.000 It's so important to me.

00:37:00.280 It's so important to me.

00:37:01.380 OK.

00:37:01.700 And so.

00:37:02.260 So, yeah, it's like, well, what is the natural?

00:37:04.460 What's the true death in the woods?

00:37:05.980 OK, if you were dying of an illness, what does that look like?

00:37:09.120 The bed, the bed.

00:37:10.980 I see the dying on the bed, right, on your back with your eyes.

00:37:14.820 If we've decided that that's how you're supposed to die, then the medicine is all based on creating the perfect bed death.

00:37:21.260 Right.

00:37:21.600 Right.

00:37:21.880 So if we all believe that the ideal death is sort of falling asleep back in a bed, then you're going to, you know, then it's morphine.

00:37:28.600 Then it's this and it's that.

00:37:29.440 I don't know.

00:37:29.800 I'm not, you know, I don't know the ins and outs of hospice work.

00:37:32.160 What if it were uppers, you're saying?

00:37:34.200 Yes.

00:37:34.820 Okay.

00:37:35.020 What if it were push you so high, soaring, soaring on uppers?

00:37:40.400 Okay.

00:37:41.040 And then you just hurl yourself.

00:37:43.260 You hurl yourself out.

00:37:44.920 And then I'm very intrigued by the crossing over.

00:37:49.140 We got to learn.

00:37:50.080 We got to die better, folks.

00:37:51.220 that I mean I just say philosophy is you know learning how to die yeah I mean that's the and

00:37:55.520 people who have you ever really been in contact with someone who's like terminally ill knows

00:37:58.860 they're dying and is like preparing for it spiritually um I've never had direct contact

00:38:03.900 but I've heard not like a family friend who is like not like a friend not like a good friend

00:38:09.360 who I'm like yeah not like if one of if you or me were dying and it was like yeah can't believe it

00:38:13.860 like I don't know like yeah not nothing like that I mean my grand my grandfather was very like

00:38:18.300 he just loved saying like i'm 86 years old okay like it's over for me soon i you live you love

00:38:24.200 you die i did those things or whatever like oh my dad's been saying how my dad's 79 he's been

00:38:28.640 calling them he's been like these are bonus years he's been saying that for like six years or 1.00

00:38:32.600 longer he's like bonus i lose my shit i'm like you will never die yeah no yeah well my mom always 0.98

00:38:39.160 says that like if she gets truly ill it's gonna be a nightmare because i'm gonna be like mad at 0.97

00:38:42.440 her okay and blame her and and be like yelling at her like my mom also has been like please don't

00:38:48.120 be angry yeah because i'll bring all my healing modalities into the picture okay and be like who

00:38:52.520 haven't you forgiven you know like we need to free up every energy unit and whatever but yeah my mom's

00:38:58.760 big on like almost that kind of like you know i'm like don't do that that's gonna be bad for you for

00:39:04.320 this reason we all die it's this kind of i mean she doesn't speak actually no sometimes she does 0.62

00:39:09.020 as a jew sometimes does slip into kind of cartoonish new york sort of jewish yeah you know

00:39:14.820 we're all gonna die okay okay to kind of reference that reference that and i i'm like please don't

00:39:21.720 you got to shoot for an a if you want to get a b right i know it's healthy but i'm like guys can

00:39:26.480 you can you make the goal 120 please we have a totally chance of you making it to 100 you know

00:39:32.580 i read an article 16 years ago about a death doula actually there was a there was a i'm scared

00:39:37.860 to even say it was a woman who i went to college with who was a girl when i met her 18 years old

00:39:41.520 and i was so stunned by her and so like floored super intimidated by her she was brilliant she

00:39:46.380 like had this crazy like ponytail that really rivet that was really riveted by and i was super

00:39:50.880 intimidated by her was too scared to really even talk to her but i was like she's cool and smart

00:39:55.000 i got i saw the pony itself or the front part was the was the part post band which part was crazy

00:40:01.720 so the whole pony was on the pony was on top of her hair the the pony all her hair was gathered 0.99

00:40:07.300 on top of her head and this kind of top bun that was really excessive and flopped to one side

00:40:11.800 and she was and i just want to say i was really taken with her because it was freshman year of

00:40:15.880 college and there was a kind of a like a first meeting like all the college freshmen were in

00:40:20.280 this big circle like announcements were being made yes and some guy stood up and was like

00:40:24.180 some guys orientation yeah orientation thank you and some worst words worst word in the english

00:40:28.580 language in that context like 18 year old guy stood up and was like you know said something

00:40:32.500 like you know well ladies like this is my room like my i'm in this dorm everyone if you want to 1.00

00:40:36.780 come by and the whole crowd laughed she stood up and started just railing him and was like that's 1.00

00:40:42.340 completely inappropriate how dare you speak to the women in this room like that and I was like

00:40:45.900 it was this NYU or this is Bard College yeah she was so cool I was so scared of her and then years

00:40:52.120 later I saw that she'd become a death doula okay and it was like her talking and she's like and

00:40:57.780 she was like I urge all my friends to have a will like my young friends to have a will now

00:41:01.840 because a coconut could hit you on top of your head she didn't say that's what I'm saying but

00:41:06.340 you could die tomorrow and you'll be really nice for your friends if you were like play this song

00:41:10.440 even something small play this song at my funeral i want this kind of food served at my memorial 0.88

00:41:14.540 service like those little things really help the people who you're leaving behind process your

00:41:19.020 death and feel like they're doing something for you in your death well not many people don't

00:41:22.420 acknowledge to others in their life that that death will ever happen to them right um i was

00:41:29.080 actually you know because it is our friend john early's birthday at the time of this recording

00:41:32.940 and um and i was actually looking at photos of him thinking of maybe posting something so sort

00:41:37.620 of going through all these photos kind of in that reminiscence spirit and i realized like i don't

00:41:41.520 think that john early can die you know i had the same thought i don't mean i don't mean i can't

00:41:45.440 survive it i mean that too but i mean like he seems like someone who just won't die like i just

00:41:53.200 can't imagine him and i guess this is because my fundamental problem with death is you know the

00:41:57.220 absence of language whatever okay the inability to contextualize your own death for others i mean

00:42:02.280 that's actually why you'd think i would have a will at this point right but it's like

00:42:05.860 i don't know i just some people they just don't have the stench of death on them and then

00:42:10.360 and then when death when death comes this is oh this is this is weird this is weird when death

00:42:15.200 comes i i've found it's unfortunate okay but after someone's dead particularly if they've died

00:42:22.680 young or tragically okay there's this feeling where you look at them and the death as part of

00:42:28.680 their life casts this retroactive shadow upon their life obviously right um i mean it gives

00:42:35.800 meaning you know and but but but it's almost like it seems like it should have been obvious

00:42:40.940 that they were gonna die yes like interesting almost like interesting like like because it's

00:42:47.360 so part of them and your experience of them being like the fact that they died that you're almost

00:42:52.100 like how did i not know i don't know like yeah like it doesn't it logically doesn't make sense

00:42:58.540 I just mean the kind of like, okay, so-and-so, you know, I've been thinking about their death for years, whatever.

00:43:05.560 And so it's like those years before, like, how didn't I know?

00:43:08.680 Because it's such a fact now.

00:43:10.140 It's very, I'm stating, you know, this is one of these things where it would take me a very long time to figure out the way to actually communicate it to make you experience the revelation that I had.

00:43:18.840 No, no, no, I think you've communicated it well.

00:43:21.080 It's really, you know, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, wait, but there's more.

00:43:24.820 Not about death.

00:43:25.280 Oh, no, there was something I'm dying to tell you about the doula, the death doula.

00:43:28.280 I feel like I have to close the blinds in my home because it's now dark outside.

00:43:31.600 The lights are on inside and the neighborhood seeing me in my recording gear is like, you know, you've been ashamed of this in the past.

00:43:37.420 Yeah, I have to close the blinds because if everyone has home studios in Los Angeles, look back and I'm in here like, you know, like, like with my gear, like it's like so embarrassing rolls on through.

00:43:49.800 Can you imagine? OK, let me let me close the blinds.

00:43:51.900 I'm sorry. I have to. All right. I'll keep talking. Is that crazy?

00:43:54.080 just do it yeah it makes me comfortable wait but there was something yeah okay okay um wait i do

00:44:04.760 want to get speaking of death sleep okay speaking of death sleep i do want to tell you about the

00:44:08.760 sleep doctor so i would have these you know these sleep attacks where yes i would i would sort of

00:44:14.700 come to for a second but immediately be plunged back into the depths and you know it was obviously

00:44:19.720 quite destructive, um, to my lifestyle and, uh, or my life or my job, gainful employment. And so

00:44:25.560 I did set up and part of this was almost me being like, okay, so you know how I slept through work

00:44:30.860 again? Like I am going to this doctor to, I'm going to the sleep specialist at Cornell, you

00:44:38.280 know, whatever. And I go, and this was a disaster. I overslept. Okay. Trying to go to the sleep

00:44:44.820 clinic. OK. And woke up at like 4 p.m. and I was due there at like 430 to sleep there all night.

00:44:49.880 Yes. Yeah. And so I arrive bright eyed and bushy tailed. OK. To be observed for my hypersomnia.

00:44:58.860 It's so funny. I'm saying like the whole point is like come here at night. You know, you're tired.

00:45:03.280 You go to sleep. Almost like we see how long you sleep for. You know what I mean? That kind of thing.

00:45:06.620 And I'm like 4 p.m. I'm so I'm extremely well rested. Right. 4 p.m. I wake up. I run there.

00:45:13.040 I get there I'm like I just I've been sleeping up until like 10 minutes ago like so I don't know

00:45:16.820 if this is going to be effective okay and they're like well you know it's too late now and they're

00:45:20.600 putting the the electrodes on my head they're like gluing them to my head with like paper mache

00:45:23.860 it's like completely ridiculous and then and then I get in the bed fall asleep you know sleep

00:45:28.120 beautifully for nine hours okay after just sleeping for 13 or whatever right yeah and there's like

00:45:33.700 they're kind of like there's yeah no you slept beautifully you know like like yeah deep sleep

00:45:38.220 all night through and and i'm like you see that that's that's weird right like that after 13 hours

00:45:43.560 of sleep i was able to easily sleep another 12 and like my brain fully um went there so it was

00:45:50.820 it was it was um you know there was no apnea okay there was there wasn't much so what did they what

00:45:58.360 was that just a symptom of depression sorry no i spaced out i forgot so so i meet with the the

00:46:03.920 woman at after this the head doctor the head researcher whatever and you know you dream of

00:46:09.920 when you meet with a specialist right you dream of them telling you you're special you dream of

00:46:13.920 them telling you uh something curious about you and you alone yeah you would be the subject yeah

00:46:20.780 and the desire for for something to be wrong you know that whole thing and it's like she did kind

00:46:25.540 of appeal to my ego in this particular way which what she said is do you suffer migraine like have

00:46:30.960 you ever or have you ever had what's the thing that where they scan your brain MRI I don't know

00:46:35.920 where they scan your brain and can see the lesions or whatever that migraine leaves no

00:46:39.340 this is like they look like scars like your brain is scarred by the migraine right so so she says

00:46:44.800 you know do yourself suffer migraine and I go no I mean I don't not really because I don't know

00:46:49.740 because I know my mother does horribly my sister does horribly so and I'm not having what they

00:46:53.840 have I've headaches and stuff and she goes well the one other person who had the same thing as

00:46:59.780 you have with this bizarre these sleep attacks where there's no nothing else seems to be wrong

00:47:04.740 when we did an mri or whatever of her i said oh you suffer migraine i can see it on your scan

00:47:11.620 right and she said no okay she said no i don't know what you're talking about and the the discovery

00:47:18.140 or theory was that she was suffering migraines without the headache no pain because technically

00:47:24.380 headache is a symptom of migraine which is a thing happening in the brain have you had because

00:47:29.980 i've had migraines that were like rarely where there's no pain but i can just feel that i'm

00:47:34.560 having it like i feel like kind of a weird body feeling right well so so she thought that perhaps

00:47:41.480 i mean it would make sense my mother my sister you know both have horrible migraines it would

00:47:45.920 make sense that possibly i have the migraine happening and you know and it did feel almost

00:47:51.680 like a thing that obviously stress and other kinds of things were would cause that's why it 0.98

00:47:57.360 also was like or am I just an asshole who like whose brain shuts down because I don't want to 0.98

00:48:01.260 go to work you know what I mean like so there was all this kind of the self-hatred embedded in that 0.98

00:48:05.480 but anyway I thought that was a very intriguing theory obviously I'm dying for a scan now always

00:48:10.160 dying for a scan get me a scan I mean anyway it's not fascinating I thought it was pretty

00:48:14.420 fucking into sleep spells that just stopped oh so yeah I was fired from the ad agency more or less 0.69

00:48:20.500 there got there got to a point where we quote reached an impasse okay i had stopped coming in 0.98

00:48:25.160 i had put in a i put in a thing saying like i wrote up this letter saying trying to say i'd

00:48:31.680 like to work from home from now on um and they allowed that for some time but then i started

00:48:36.680 missing deadlines you know i was trying to pursue stand-up comedy um whatever we reached an impasse

00:48:42.040 i i moved back to the suburbs i did kundalini yoga for a year and meditated and and shortly

00:48:48.920 after i met you got got into all that kind of stuff and basically i i took away the stresses

00:48:54.680 and then built life anew and i basically don't really have the sleep attacks anymore i mean it's

00:48:59.260 like i i removed the stressor the stressor being what well i found gigs that could support me that

00:49:04.880 were remote and on my own time you know like and i remember this doctor um because at the same time

00:49:13.120 i got a battery of psychological tests as they call this projective and objective or whatever

00:49:18.260 i was gonna say psychological testing literally rorschachs have you gotten a rorschach ever 0.92

00:49:22.540 formally because yes as a kid in your in your learning whatever days because sex sex because

00:49:28.740 it was like no right right i was like i very distinctly i was like well i mean am i supposed

00:49:34.500 to not acknowledge that they're all literally vaginal because they're all a imprint that's 0.94

00:49:39.180 been symmetry completely yeah symmetry is going to like they're all vaginal right it's a vagina 0.83

00:49:44.460 of it every time and then say that it looks like a wolf in a chair right and so i i over explained

00:49:50.040 every single one you know like i went out for 10 minutes whatever whatever whatever battery of

00:49:53.560 tests whatever i can't remember why i brought it up oh yeah the clinician was like first of all

00:49:59.880 she said after my whole brain profile after she figured it all out and did the study she goes

00:50:03.480 like first of all i'm i'm uh pretty blown away that you are not a major drug addict she said

00:50:10.220 that like the specifics of my brain including the add the combination of the various things right

00:50:15.420 she's like this is drug addict like you know and i was like well i think i avoided it because i got

00:50:21.180 on antidepressants early enough and so i and i was so miserable and depressed that i felt like i

00:50:25.940 wasn't going to fuck around with drugs really because i was trying to but anyway i loved that 0.92

00:50:30.060 can you imagine isn't that fantastic you should be a terrific drug addict you should be like i'm 0.96

00:50:34.180 surprised you're not wow well thank god you were able to avoid that you know it's all people always

00:50:39.180 want to hear about your clinic initiatory experiences and i think i think you'd be

00:50:42.940 curious to know about the battery of tests uh you know it's impossible to say for me to say

00:50:47.900 whether or not i knew that was interesting because of course deeply captivating to me

00:50:51.120 i want to talk about all my all my childhood testing and all the learning disability

00:50:54.860 and the tutors and the all of it um anyway okay well and i just wanted to say you know

00:51:01.540 actually i don't know i was gonna i don't know i'm feeling some shame about dragging on about my

00:51:06.900 my you know

00:51:08.100 oh me and the

00:51:09.040 advertising agent

00:51:09.800 who cares

00:51:10.340 whatever

00:51:10.620 feel no shame

00:51:11.340 I feel extraordinary

00:51:12.080 shame for some of

00:51:12.680 the things I've said

00:51:13.140 today but guess what

00:51:13.900 there's no shame

00:51:14.960 here okay

00:51:15.560 it's fine

00:51:16.700 that was POOG

00:51:21.480 if you enjoyed

00:51:22.580 POOG

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00:51:36.020 Thank you.

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - January 26, 2021

Sleep Attack

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