Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Love Is a Noun

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.420 This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.

00:00:08.020 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune.

00:00:11.960 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

00:00:15.780 No, I am not your guru.

00:00:19.420 Back then, I lied to everybody.

00:00:21.720 They have had this case for 30 years.

00:00:24.660 I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.

00:00:27.320 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:57.320 Chase Matthew, listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app,

00:01:00.880 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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00:01:34.840 Hi, I'm Kate Berlant.

00:01:36.300 I'm Jacqueline Novak.

00:01:37.400 And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends.

00:01:42.120 Two untamable intellects.

00:01:43.900 This is our hobby. 0.97

00:01:44.760 This is our hell.

00:01:45.600 This is our naked desire for free products.

00:01:47.880 This is POOG.

00:01:49.300 Today's topic, loosely speaking.

00:01:50.760 Halt.

00:01:52.040 Smoothie 10. 1.00

00:01:53.700 Plump hands.

00:01:55.300 okay cool i'm laughing i'm already laughing walking and laughing i'm laughing because i

00:02:02.520 always forget how quickly emotions pass and moods pass so our listeners don't know that i was mere

00:02:10.600 moments ago raging i'd gotten my car technical issues that ordinarily might be annoying i became

00:02:16.040 homicidal i felt the walls closing in i was rude is a hysterical adjective i've just realized because

00:02:25.060 to be murderous is funny right because usually murder is pretty like specific event in one's

00:02:32.200 life like if someone commits murder it's like kind of a big deal yeah so like to be like for

00:02:37.280 homicidal like homicidal implies like that there is a and i've heard that word right like he was

00:02:42.780 homicidal yeah and it's like it's like to be permanently in a murderous state do you know

00:02:48.340 i'm saying like homicidal implies like almost suicidal like other suicidal like oh yeah like

00:02:53.160 for the last like a like a condition you have to constantly kind of exactly pushing against and

00:02:57.700 managing yes that's really funny homicidal is hysterical like just be walking around

00:03:04.380 murderously that's really funny because i do fly into rages where and i'll say like here so here

00:03:10.220 i'm and right now honey i'm so we've all heard of a halt hungry angry lonely tired what right

00:03:16.240 okay have you not heard about this halt halt yeah this was something when i was like 16 and i'd be

00:03:20.040 like you know my therapist was like halt are you hungry angry lonely tired i was like yes all of

00:03:25.280 them what so hungry am i hungry yeah but i'm hungry though okay i um i'll say am i angry yes

00:03:32.880 what no sorry i was trying to remember the a okay yeah anger hungry oh wait wait huh oh lonely

00:03:38.340 lonely is a sad one and then tired so i was working i was working until 4 30 i got home at 5 a.m

00:03:44.600 this is why you believe in community why because of halt was introduced to you early your loneliness

00:03:50.840 being one of the mood problems therefore that's why you're obsessed with community and connection

00:03:55.620 good luck never occurred to me as relevant good luck having healthy immune system if you don't

00:03:59.880 have community folks okay you you can be optimal you can have optimized diet uh you know fitness

00:04:06.600 regimen you can be doing it all if you're not connected to a community if you don't feel

00:04:09.880 interdependence you're gonna have chronic illness all right i mean those babies or whatever um

00:04:17.680 you know the untouched baby yeah what'd you say what's a vitamin love i said joy is a vitamin

00:04:23.500 oh you know what i hate i was thinking it's doing on this the other day joking obviously

00:04:26.860 people say love is a verb okay i hate that it's something you do do you ever do you ever give

00:04:33.940 bad interviews on purpose in the shower that's um because i i will monologue sometimes if i'm

00:04:40.900 cooking or showering i will slip into very kind of boring exhausted points like talk radio points

00:04:49.500 that you hear like i'll like regurgitate what i've heard on the radio for 38 000 years yes in

00:04:55.760 my need to 38 000 to be like well not 38 it's 38 000

00:05:00.740 oh that's hysterical that's hysterical not that there's anything wrong with being 38 um yeah i

00:05:10.620 know but um well there's so much to talk about but i was just gonna say giving bad interviews

00:05:17.060 like you saying love is a verb like i could imagine myself being like because love is something

00:05:20.680 that you do right it actually is enforced through action it's not a transient emotional state we

00:05:25.760 can't chase happiness we can chase you know anyway no no but i also hate love is a verb because

00:05:32.260 folks it's also a noun yeah okay so let's not into a chocolate chip cookie someone's on their

00:05:39.280 period yeah what i'm ripping into this chocolate chip cookie to create joy if you were premenstrual

00:05:45.440 in the creative phase which is how i prefer to refer to premenstrual i am because remember this

00:05:51.100 the time you clean up and you clean house okay you sweep up you sweep out i feel that

00:05:55.920 i don't see i should have got my period yesterday and so i'm you're really you're

00:06:02.120 really hanging over the precipice god it's exciting i like that i'm no it sounded sarcastic

00:06:08.440 and i actually meant it um i do think it's exciting i think it's really i don't know

00:06:13.960 i mean you know you know i've gotten very i love this reframing of it it's great anyway so i was

00:06:20.040 hungry, anger, lonely, and tired. I was raging. But now the transience of mood, because now

00:06:24.700 I'm better. I'm better. The technical issues have gone away. I started watching the Tina Turner doc.

00:06:31.500 I started crying almost instantly. Um, wait, I don't know if I've ever experienced loneliness.

00:06:39.740 Please continue. What I mean is, and not because I'm constantly surrounded.

00:06:43.860 i wonder if this is a lack or this is a like an injured instinct in me yeah okay like if i like

00:06:50.820 similarly like not being thirsty and then i'm chronically dehydrated right i don't i don't

00:06:57.200 like i enjoy being alone a lot right and i don't notice that i'm alone i'm not like this is weird

00:07:06.460 i'm just alone i'm just like living living inside my head reading books whatever it is right

00:07:12.220 walking around I do you think that's odd no and I don't know because I I don't feel when do I feel

00:07:20.260 alone sometimes you feel loneliest for other people but it's true like being alone oh another

00:07:25.000 another point sometimes I'll I will slip into kind of feeling bad about myself I mean I feel

00:07:30.460 like that hasn't happened in a minute but being kind of like sorry I'm truly thinking we'll edit

00:07:36.520 this out um i haven't been alone much at all lately right and now i'm kind of like oh kind of

00:07:44.480 remembering its benefits remembering how desperate i am for that how essential that is like there

00:07:50.620 was something today about like waking up when you wake up alone and you're like oh i can do and i

00:07:56.060 again i like drank coffee in bed and watched part of the tina turner doc and yeah i was like so

00:08:00.420 moved by just watching her perform that i just started weeping god tv at the start of the day

00:08:05.540 oh yeah nothing better one of the is like is an is a radical act okay because a lot of people won't

00:08:13.060 you know they treat it like drinking you know not until after five yeah okay and to me it's like such

00:08:20.180 a rejection of um i mean and the idea of like even if you have to go somewhere like you know

00:08:26.540 job or school i remember feeling like the thrill of putting on the tv even the weather channel

00:08:31.840 before school oh my god feeling like i was like getting this thing that like getting a little

00:08:37.720 taste of the world preschool was really satisfying i completely agree and it makes it's um yeah

00:08:45.480 something about like if you have to wake up early i think we've talked about this but waking up in

00:08:49.240 a hotel room early because you have to go to the airport and turning on the local news and it's

00:08:53.020 like hey in the end it's 48 degrees or whatever the hell it makes you oh god yeah no i'm like

00:08:58.980 tempted to just take us back to the comfort and lobby like we did on a previous episode i'm like

00:09:03.080 i'm like bring me back and like because we're we're identifying these kind of public spaces

00:09:08.700 that are that have a familiarity despite being public places right i mean like the movie theater

00:09:14.620 the public intimacies yeah the hotel the uh i'm trying to think if there's other ones that i've

00:09:20.140 been enjoying well i have been going to target uh daily basically because i'm staying at my

00:09:24.400 parents house so i've been doing the target and since i've been in pittsburgh targets become a

00:09:29.180 real emotional anchor for me um well yeah the fact that it's a i mean it's a it's a um what's

00:09:35.220 it called sort of embassy oh yeah right sort of an embassy throughout the country i'm excited to

00:09:39.800 go by a broom as i'd pull into town on the road you know go into heading to a town one of the

00:09:45.240 best feelings in the world me and my friend erica we were um on the road between two comedy clubs

00:09:50.400 she was like like like early days and massive snowstorm hit and we pulled into a target parking

00:09:58.580 lot and we were like we might just have to like live out the storm inside target yeah and like

00:10:03.880 maybe like there's gonna be no one on the road and people are gonna be camping in target like

00:10:07.800 like all the people from the highway what happened exactly that we i don't know we waited it out we

00:10:14.060 went to a hotel i i can't remember oh no i know what we did i know what we did we went into target

00:10:19.540 and we got a bunch of stuff supplies for the car yeah i love supplies for the joke was i called my

00:10:27.140 car at the time the go mobile i mean just erica is a joke because that's like a deeply redundant

00:10:32.980 like non-nickname for a car like the go mobile yeah you know what i mean yeah it adds nothing

00:10:40.460 it's like nothing and so it's like hysterical to me it's so similar like i think it's really funny

00:10:44.980 to some for me to go um like if me and chris are watching a movie or starting a movie okay and i'm

00:10:50.700 like liking it i lean over and i go certified fresh by novak or whatever okay so i do an absolute

00:10:59.720 unwitty taking of the tomato meters word you know what i'm saying rotten tomatoes is actually taken

00:11:07.220 seriously isn't it oh god that's what a terrifying reality it is beyond it is like i've we've all

00:11:13.800 forgotten who are who are these people it's a gag who are no kate it's an aggregate that's why it's

00:11:19.380 taken seriously this is devastating news you thought they were just some i know what you're

00:11:23.860 picturing you're picturing a small office a board i'm picturing indie wire yeah you're picking a

00:11:28.120 group of a-holes sitting in an office okay the couple max yeah no it's a bunch of incels the

00:11:35.340 men you're picturing no that's exactly what i knew you were picturing incels voting zero percent on 0.74

00:11:40.700 crisha look it up if you have to did they vote poorly on crisha no i don't know let me look up

00:11:48.500 right now oh um crisha but it's an aggregate as i think it's an aggregate of reviews now okay now

00:11:57.040 popcorn meter they they utilize as well you know how they have tomato meter in the popcorn meter

00:12:02.400 sometimes wait no that's on the stubs app i don't know shit wait does the tomato does rotten tomatoes

00:12:09.540 have a popcorn meter okay interesting sorry i'm looking here at cretia 95 of rotten tomatoes so

00:12:14.940 that's actually good to hear 77 audience score whatever the hell that means there's only 79

00:12:20.380 reviews though i'll tell you so these are crucial lovers yes but here's the thing kate it's an

00:12:25.320 aggregate of and i think they wait that's why they have the okay the tomato meter is i believe

00:12:31.240 an aggregate of formal and respected criticism so oh what the new york times gave it what the

00:12:38.260 okay and the audience meter is what their regular people okay vote and so me and chris like when

00:12:44.680 we're looking at sorry there's a lot of me and chris but um a lot of aggregate talk okay

00:12:49.100 but when we're looking like at a movie and we'll see like we'll see sometimes like 50 if you see

00:12:56.680 like hide popcorn meter or audience meter low tomato on like a horror movie i'm like yeah we're

00:13:02.580 going they're never they never are going to give you know conjuring three what it deserves or

00:13:07.940 high popcorn meter it's like you can only trust the people with horror you know what i mean i

00:13:13.060 understand that i understand that it's really important god i start we started watching the

00:13:18.340 conjuring here um again of course um you know my my feelings about the conjuring universe you

00:13:24.580 remind me i don't think i know they just heard it because i used to do it on stage what oh maybe

00:13:30.740 Is The Conjuring with Lily Taylor?

00:13:32.420 That's the first one, but it's an entire world,

00:13:34.120 but they'll say another one from The Conjuring Universe, okay?

00:13:36.880 Oh, really?

00:13:37.540 Annabelle, they'll go from The Conjuring Universe.

00:13:39.940 Oh, you're kidding.

00:13:40.700 I had no idea what we were dealing with.

00:13:42.460 And The Conjuring Universe, you know, it's often Ed and Lorraine Warren,

00:13:46.040 who were real, you know, demonologists, whatever, whose books I've read.

00:13:50.580 You've probably seen some stuff on them.

00:13:52.280 Anyway, and my joke is merely that The Conjuring Universe is our own universe

00:13:57.100 because everything that happens in those movies

00:14:00.580 is real, true, and happens.

00:14:04.400 The 100 universes, but our own.

00:14:07.240 But our world.

00:14:08.620 I'm so thrilled.

00:14:09.740 Theda's laughing, thank God.

00:14:11.140 I'm laughing too, I'm sorry.

00:14:14.000 No, you don't have to.

00:14:15.360 I was laughing, honestly.

00:14:16.300 Theda's laughing was so piercing in my headphones.

00:14:20.120 You were silenced by it.

00:14:22.960 Did you watch the Joy Luck Club?

00:14:24.600 My mother wanted to know

00:14:25.600 because she appreciated that um oh my god no i've been i'm really i've been really neglecting

00:14:30.560 myself i've been really not watching i of course of course um well i am recording pook for the

00:14:37.980 first time from my childhood home wow how does what's the tenor of that for me you know um i'm

00:14:44.980 very comfortable here at my parents house it is a safe haven oh yeah you and i i love you and i

00:14:50.600 both love to regress instantly in the home yes and um and it's really nice it's nice you know 0.51

00:14:57.820 that my dad makes coffee at 4 a.m so when you come down it's ready to go holy shit um jeff's 0.95

00:15:03.500 up at 4 a.m greg just my brother oh my god literally strike it from it will be it will 0.98

00:15:11.140 be played in the episode and both of my parents listen weekly you know that is a humiliation

00:15:15.900 Greg I'm this is right to you I again well I went to sleep at five I'm hungry I'm angry I'm lonely

00:15:22.500 and I'm tired okay and that's what happened I have the four halts I'm I'm I'm in the halt zone

00:15:29.220 right now um I am reading a fabulous book on OCD it's called I really do want to recommend it

00:15:39.480 because I am devouring it I just like opened it and read like 67 pages last night not that

00:15:43.620 anyone's counting it's called needing to know for sure oh holy shit yeah honey and it's all about

00:15:49.700 it's like a cognitive behavioral approach to right um what does it say seeking reassurance

00:15:55.640 and i'm literally getting the book just to know what no no this is okay i have a lot i mean this

00:16:00.580 is wait what i don't have to wait wait i can't hear you are you excited for me i mean if she

00:16:08.000 can't hear me i guess but just listen to this needing to know needing to know for sure a cbt

00:16:12.760 based guide to overcoming compulsive checking and reassurance seeking are you excited i mean did

00:16:17.840 they i mean it's it's it's just so exciting because that is specifically you know massively

00:16:23.280 your one of your you know touchstones of we're gonna go to break i'm gonna talk quickly about

00:16:28.940 it very excited yeah this is rider strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather

00:16:37.380 It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea.

00:16:43.340 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Trainor, disappeared from a commune.

00:16:47.100 It was hard to wrap your head around.

00:16:48.420 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

00:16:52.060 No, I am not your guru.

00:16:55.820 And back then, I lied to my parents.

00:16:58.460 I lied to police.

00:16:59.740 I lied to everybody.

00:17:00.720 There were years right where I could not say your name.

00:17:03.680 I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California,

00:17:06.120 to interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can to try to find out

00:17:11.100 what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods

00:17:15.460 and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of

00:17:21.100 to come around here and my wife. Boom, boom. This is The Red Weather. Listen to The Red Weather 1.00

00:17:28.580 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:17:36.120 the coolest cat in country music.

00:17:38.220 He is edgy. He's fun.

00:17:40.040 He is Chase Matthews. Keith Urban

00:17:41.940 helped make him a global sensation last

00:17:43.980 year, but it's his recent number one hit

00:17:45.720 Darling that put Chase on the map and

00:17:47.880 launched a fun and difficult

00:17:49.680 conversation about lovers who cheat

00:17:51.700 and lie. That's why I'm scared to get married. 0.53

00:17:53.900 You're giving me trust issues, brother. Crook and

00:17:55.820 Chase Nashville Chats with Chase Matthews.

00:17:58.100 Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio

00:18:00.060 app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

00:18:01.940 you listen to podcasts.

00:18:06.120 so you jacqueline your excitement i mean because you know me so deeply and you know that this

00:18:13.840 could be huge and again i'm resisting all epiphany here but i just want to say that if anyone if that

00:18:19.380 strikes a chord get this goddamn book because i i i know that it seems too much to be like it's 0.79

00:18:25.800 already changed my life but i've it's really i'm i need this it's all about escaping the reassurance 0.98

00:18:31.680 trap and you know of course at the center of that is accepting the anxiety of uncertainty of course

00:18:37.020 there it is which is a lifelong and we need mindfulness we need so much and um i love this

00:18:42.200 it's like talks about disentangling yourself from your thoughts and then simply letting time pass

00:18:47.880 which is like again what i struggle with the urgency to know the urgency to ask and it's so

00:18:52.780 devastating jacqueline i thought about you because it talks about seeking empty reassurance from

00:18:56.700 friends and like exhausting your friends because you're looking to them for information they don't

00:19:01.660 have that no one has the the need to answer the unanswerable well they're also right right right

00:19:07.820 right but i and i also think it's it's like at least i think part of the instinct is you know

00:19:12.400 when you don't trust your own ability let's say to you know make the quote right decision

00:19:17.820 yeah um create the fantasy that someone else's sureness or confidence or opinion

00:19:23.120 you know that they somehow do know or something or you just trust you can't doubt someone else's

00:19:28.700 thought the same way. Like you could doubt your own, by the way, you know, I've done this on the

00:19:33.780 podcast, I'm sure, but I just, I'm stunned by my own genius on this one. My, when I had the

00:19:38.540 realization that there's no such thing as a right decision, you make a decision and you make it the

00:19:42.440 right one. I really can't believe, I think that is hugely helpful because we see as if every

00:19:50.240 decision, as if we see every decision, as if the moment you make that one decision that is dictating

00:19:55.200 the rest of your life and you're you're choiceless after that yeah when in fact so here's i just want

00:20:00.500 to quickly say one thing because i this is fascinating to me i don't want to butcher it but 0.67

00:20:03.760 this is something that i'm like holy shit they talk about positive um enforcement which is like

00:20:09.020 classic you know you teach a dog to sit you give it a biscuit right and it's gonna sit for the 0.69

00:20:13.080 biscuit it's gonna sit for the biscuit so that works with a negative thing too which is let's

00:20:18.180 just say you have, you know, uh, uh, an aching thing, this like urgency for, to know if something

00:20:25.220 certainty, you know, the obvious thing being, is my plane going to crash? Right. And so let's just

00:20:29.380 say I'm sitting next to one of the plan. I go, is the plane going to crash? Is the plane going to

00:20:32.460 crash? And something that's negative or that doesn't work is it doesn't matter how many times

00:20:37.040 you tell me it's not going to crash here. The statistics behind plane, like, which actually I

00:20:41.020 was reading about this and laughing. Cause I don't fear plane travel. In fact, I fear cars so much

00:20:45.320 that i would rather fly than drive like when people are like well i'm just scared to fly i'm 0.98

00:20:49.060 gonna drive i'm like well are you out of your goddamn mind i'm gonna fly the six hours and 0.96

00:20:53.440 risk my life infinitely more i would love to fly 10 minutes to avoid a drive wait you have to know 0.99

00:21:00.280 though wait i can't tell if you're realizing you know that truly cars are infinitely more dangerous

00:21:06.660 just statistically that's what i'm saying i'd rather fly than drive except you know what i've

00:21:10.940 thought about this a lot because i too i at times experience real fear um while flying sometimes i

00:21:16.400 get a little little rush but isn't that the fun of air travel you feel it shake my problem is with

00:21:22.120 it is that um i thought about this a lot because why am i so afraid when i know the cars are more

00:21:27.340 dangerous and whatever and it's because i fear that the experience of a plane crash okay would

00:21:33.160 be fucking heinous compared to versus bam bam semi truck like i have a lot of dreams where i'm 0.59

00:21:39.240 driving and you know there's a curve and i don't make the curve okay i'm just flying flying flying 0.98

00:21:44.360 where am i gonna land and i think i have some maybe where i'm hurtling out of the car but yeah

00:21:48.060 the the bam of the car to me plummeting with people honey there's no greater splat than being

00:21:54.020 in a plane and hitting the ground i think no well no but it's the screaming after it's the

00:21:58.680 register six minutes descent of the free fall okay well free fall yeah any falling falling

00:22:04.860 descending people screaming praying okay you bracing you going oh we're going into the ocean

00:22:10.640 okay cool so water is going to fill the cabin oh i'm going to be climbing over to try to get

00:22:16.360 honest i've gone through a thing where i read a series of articles about plane safety and um

00:22:21.160 you know statistically what's the best place what's the safest seat on the plane oh boy what

00:22:25.660 is exit row uh yes i think it's it's it's basically exit row i i think and then there's

00:22:30.800 some stuff about the front of the plane versus the back of the plane and i forget what it is

00:22:34.100 back the back is just falls right off or something no it's like something unexpected like the back

00:22:39.480 always just just pops right off when when humans die at the hands of mechanisms they themselves

00:22:46.100 invented and created i find it really upsetting okay so death in a car i mean john waters and it

00:22:54.700 made me laugh so hard because it like literally like like just thinking about it he's just like

00:22:58.920 oh it's the ugliest way to go crash okay john waters is like it's the ugliest way to go or

00:23:05.540 something like that and like scary like it made me laugh really hard because like i realized

00:23:09.400 yeah so it's like anytime you're being crushed by literally the very thing you built yeah okay

00:23:15.400 i find that really disturbing that you paid for no less building yes yes but like a building falling

00:23:20.700 i consider part of that the titanic okay it all becomes the titanic for me so what for you are

00:23:25.560 so so for you you'd rather so it's more what love what else is there drowning falling off a cliff

00:23:31.340 being hit in the head by a coconut ways to die accidentally you mean natural death natural causes

00:23:35.980 that's like a slow and painful disease thank you um you know do you ever have like the fantasy of

00:23:43.700 um sometimes you read these pieces right these sort of brilliant pieces of writing by people

00:23:48.820 who are like you know three months to live oh yeah you ever read these yes yes okay and they're

00:23:54.580 kind of like you know they're heavily shared and it's like holy shit yeah and it's this it's this

00:23:59.880 thing of like can you believe their grace yeah in the in the face of this thing and it's the

00:24:03.960 question i i wonder is you know the pressure right to be the inspirational oh my god tale oh my god

00:24:10.620 if you got the three-month-er do you think about that for yourself write your greatest do you write

00:24:15.080 an essay that just you sort of go okay that you know i can either be one of those people right

00:24:21.020 like do you aim for for a death of greatness right right or do is there so because there's

00:24:26.500 either there's the really kind of you know i'm going to disneyland every day and it's like guess

00:24:32.340 what that won't help you know like that's kind of the fallacy of that it's like spaghetti

00:24:36.280 meatballs every night and i'm gonna ride magic mountain um yeah but after three days of that

00:24:42.480 after three days of that yeah i mean what the hell do you do if you've got i mean for me it's

00:24:48.440 it's obviously it's run to you know i don't know i'd go into some kind of hardcore i'd go into

00:24:55.700 hardcore trying to you know have a radical healing i mean that's that's where i'd go i would not i

00:25:01.820 would not accept i would you know you'd be like turmeric you would like i'd be like i'd be like

00:25:07.380 i'd go like i'd go truly quantum i'd have to like i'd go further upstream than turmeric yeah

00:25:14.340 yeah i'd be like you know doing a major i mean this is why you know you got to do it now right

00:25:21.260 it's like it's like when i suddenly have the idea that i should have a meditation practice on the

00:25:25.280 day that i'm like having profound stress so i keep going cool so if i've been meditating for

00:25:31.700 the last six months maybe i'd be a little more equipped to handle this now instead it's like

00:25:36.100 two days before the anxiety inducing thing right of course and then you turn to the practice

00:25:41.080 launching the practice by the way i'm like 14 days into tracy anderson online studio and um

00:25:47.240 oh and loving it you know what i love about it really simple makes me sweat honey you ever do

00:25:52.980 a hard workout by the way hard and you're not sweating it's hell yes of course please send me

00:25:57.220 one i want to try one i did a little dancing this morning if you can believe it i know that doesn't

00:26:01.340 go with the halt um issue i was talking about earlier but i'm laughing because i'm looking

00:26:05.280 over and there's a picture i want to post this on the pookie instagram there's a picture of a box

00:26:09.440 of crackers i ripped into right before we started recording i was so angry i was so halt sure i

00:26:14.580 want to take a picture of this box of mary's gone crackers whatever it's called because i ripped

00:26:18.640 into it like a wild animal like it was a sealed box and instead of just opening it i ripped off

00:26:24.980 the top like and it's hanging off the counter partially and it's like such an image of the

00:26:30.060 desperation well similarly you know i was thinking about my father's been eating rice crackers and

00:26:36.240 I'm really concerned about it okay like grain dad grain okay and I'm like get off the rice

00:26:42.500 crackers I need you like I'm just okay I'm trying to I need to convert grain brain because he

00:26:47.740 actually had yes that's what I said to him he actually I was saying to him the reason that I'm

00:26:52.680 so hard on them and him and I give him all the information and make him look up Dr. Mark Hyman

00:26:57.380 and Dr. Robert Lustig okay is because he is disciplined so like a million like I'm 19 I'm

00:27:04.980 going to my you know psychiatrist who prescribes me antidepressants and she also prescribed me

00:27:11.700 fish oil okay and oh my god book in a book called like the omega-3 solution this is like i don't

00:27:17.980 know 99 or something or 2003 i whatever it doesn't matter but and so we get the book we read it and

00:27:24.560 then my dad like gets on board because it's very compelling about the the way our diet and the

00:27:29.700 food chain the whole thing has led to us not getting the omega-3s and the omega-6s are way

00:27:35.660 outweighing the omega-3s in every cell in our body and you know there were these studies where

00:27:40.000 they gave people high doses of fish oil and like or it was the only thing that gave relief for

00:27:43.740 their bipolar and whatever a lot of pretty significant fish oil studies yeah if you chase

00:27:49.520 it down with a gin martini point is he's been taking it now for he's he's he's been taking it

00:27:54.100 now for you know 20 years or whatever i need every day greg send me which brand like i go i go on and

00:28:01.380 i go off i tried to get him on that nad plus he also he's so regimented have you ever known have

00:28:06.900 you ever been transformed by fish oil during periods where i was like really struggling with

00:28:13.380 depression and um like not on the right meds like i was like just a heavy user of fish oil but

00:28:19.080 i tend to fall off when times are good i mean that's classic at least i don't do that with 0.58

00:28:24.080 my with my damn meds i've just settled in on those yeah of course thank god you know but but 0.64

00:28:29.600 yeah so i'm like you actually could be the subject like because he'll he'll do the thing like he'll 0.98

00:28:34.560 get the thing and take it every day for two years and he's so regimented like his routines that he

00:28:40.180 can actually like see and spot differences based on like like he'll be like the nad plus was making

00:28:46.680 him feel a little weird wow after like three weeks i just wish i had the discipline for that

00:28:51.960 I mean, I'm on probably, I'm probably on day eight of consecutive, uh, athletic greens.

00:28:57.020 Yeah.

00:28:57.380 I was going to say, I was going to ask you, cause I'm also on like day eight of PGX plus

00:29:03.120 mulberry fiber supplement.

00:29:05.040 And you might be thinking that's not very exciting, but it is Dr. Mark Hyman's number

00:29:08.160 one supplement recommendation.

00:29:10.180 Is it a pill?

00:29:10.700 I repeat, is it a pill?

00:29:11.520 Yes.

00:29:11.740 It's a capsule with, with cognac or whatever.

00:29:15.620 No, wait, the root.

00:29:18.100 Sorry.

00:29:18.440 Wait, hold on.

00:29:19.000 let me i don't i don't know how it's pronounced let's see maybe um will you text it to me yes

00:29:24.060 okay yeah the athletic greens because i am so because i am so i struggle so deeply with

00:29:30.220 discipline and any kind of regimen there's always this kind of sorrow that run that's the subtext

00:29:35.040 of any new principle i adopt like i'm on day eight and i'm like look at me doing it and i'm like

00:29:40.080 i know now not to grip too hard to the practice because i can already feel it slipping away but

00:29:44.960 then today i had this i was drinking the athletic greens and i was like hey maybe this won't slip

00:29:48.380 away. Maybe I'll really reap the benefits of athletic greens and I'll just be someone who

00:29:52.180 is taking it on trips. You know, I'm gone for 10 days. Well, I'm bringing 10 pouches, you know?

00:29:56.800 Yes. And, and see, I just want to point out like how I right now, my brain, it's the spiritual

00:30:01.940 dollar signs. It's the wellness dollar signs. Okay. I mean, but in the sense of my, my eyes

00:30:06.300 started darting around as you were saying that me looking for a solution, you know, I look for

00:30:10.660 solutions. Okay. So like, I like came up with a way for us to stay on things for life. Do you

00:30:16.480 know what it is we get on the goddamn phone every day and we take our fucking pills or whatever it 0.99

00:30:21.860 is i mean i drink our water we take our supplements you know me jacqueline you know me well enough to 0.99

00:30:26.880 know there's nothing cozier than that and that would for me i think that might be the i'm trying 0.93

00:30:31.580 to suck you even now i'm trying to suck you into your own idea and i'm going jacqueline that's the 0.97

00:30:36.080 key to that's the key to health is you getting on the phone with me every day and us taking our 0.99

00:30:41.580 pills or a simple check-in it would be you could have your athletic green i mean we could just

00:30:46.360 call it you know you know the smoothie 10 or something okay what comes something a little bit

00:30:50.840 more satisfying because one of the sweetest things about um i'll tell the listeners about being a

00:30:56.020 close friend of yours is um getting a text in the morning gm simply good morning yes gm but the

00:31:02.100 lowercase gm from you is like okay oh i love it even saying this because you know gm's origins

00:31:07.660 so my friend deirdre fulton of course shout out deirdre she's a big fan of the cast um she was

00:31:13.220 like we started it together i know that other people use gm probably you were the first person

00:31:18.560 to text me we did it ourselves okay years ago and it was like it was a way of like dealing with

00:31:25.700 depression in the morning okay yeah and like just and feeling like you can't talk to anyone or do

00:31:30.200 anything and no energy and so gm was like a way of just like the tiniest hello possible that isn't

00:31:36.800 like inviting a lot of conversation it's the smallest sound you can make very sweet gm become

00:31:41.080 is something that we then will use sometimes like at any time of the day almost like to mean like

00:31:46.640 i'm feeling small yeah a little check-in small afraid sort of depressed like and all i can do

00:31:53.060 is like you know just say gm all lowercase that's sweet i like that gm is the best i love gm

00:32:00.120 this is rider strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather

00:32:07.180 It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea.

00:32:13.160 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Trainor, disappeared from a commune.

00:32:16.880 It was hard to wrap your head around.

00:32:18.220 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

00:32:21.840 No, I am not your guru.

00:32:25.620 And back then, I lied to my parents.

00:32:28.260 I lied to police.

00:32:29.520 I lied to everybody.

00:32:30.520 There were years right where I could not say your name.

00:32:33.480 I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California,

00:32:35.920 to interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can to try to find out

00:32:40.900 what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods

00:32:45.260 and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of

00:32:50.920 come around here and my wife. Boom, boom. This is The Red Weather. Listen to The Red Weather 1.00

00:32:58.400 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:33:05.920 the coolest cat in country music.

00:33:08.020 He is edgy. He's fun.

00:33:09.840 He is Chase Matthews. Keith Urban

00:33:11.740 helped make him a global sensation last

00:33:13.780 year, but it's his recent number one hit

00:33:15.520 Darling that put Chase on the map and

00:33:17.680 launched a fun and difficult

00:33:19.480 conversation about lovers who cheat

00:33:21.500 and lie. That's why I'm scared to get married. 0.53

00:33:23.720 You're giving me trust issues, brother. Crook and

00:33:25.620 Chase Nashville Chats with Chase Matthews.

00:33:28.000 Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio

00:33:29.860 app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

00:33:31.740 you listen to podcasts.

00:33:35.920 i want to talk about just quickly we are featured in um the style section of the new york times

00:33:45.200 this weekend however there's a photograph of me that and we all know this like photographs of

00:33:52.300 ourselves that we hate right we scrutinize images of our of ourselves of course but like the thing

00:33:57.660 there's a photo in this article there's only two photos of us we each have two photos one of them

00:34:02.980 is so like it feels intentionally unflattering it feels like somebody put it there because i

00:34:09.300 wronged them like it's so violent it's such a act of violence the the presence of the image

00:34:15.460 and the photographer took you know hundreds right of photos of course and i just don't believe

00:34:22.900 that out of all of that one of them is fine the other one is devastating and i just want i want

00:34:30.780 highlight how devastating it is guess who's not going to post the new york times article in which

00:34:35.900 they're featured yeah myself no i know because how do you feel about this okay right would ruin

00:34:42.820 you in your opinion the devastation what it would ruin you well so let's analyze the fear because

00:34:48.680 i live in fear about photos okay i'm looking at it right now and the people should run and look at 0.96

00:34:55.200 it i mean actually we will have to post it for this reason yeah i'm more great now we're fucked 0.62

00:34:59.380 to the poog instead we could post and it's fine you know it's like you know you know what the 0.75

00:35:02.660 main issue is i didn't go okay it's gonna hate that immediately i didn't okay i go cape might

00:35:08.040 hate that okay i was like i was like just because it's like whatever kind of it's a really bad

00:35:12.660 angle and it it creates for me the illusion of an excessive 30 pounds um sitting squarely atop

00:35:19.380 my face and there's a psychotic triple chin situation going on and my hair yeah i think

00:35:27.520 looks revolting and it's just an image that and i'm fine it doesn't make me run to the mirror and

00:35:32.900 go oh god you know like i'm i can maintain my own sovereignty but yes no it's not revealing a truth

00:35:40.700 i i refuse to mark this as truth yes no no i'm exactly and that's so that's a different that's

00:35:50.680 a different part of me upset yeah right there's two kinds of upsets ones you've been wronged and

00:35:55.300 misrepresented right when you know you're like i know there were photos in that thing that you know

00:36:02.180 you'd probably adore and if you could look over the shoulder and point and go please use that one

00:36:06.920 you know i just i um i resent the fact that it feels like photographers don't always have

00:36:12.900 the subject's best interest in mind it's like oh like if the tree looks interesting behind you

00:36:18.700 they'll like post like what is deeply missed i think they always need to like the only correct

00:36:24.280 thing to do is to it like your first sort like if they're sorting the photos send them on through

00:36:30.740 sort by no i wasn't saying that i was saying they need to first sort by the person looks in the top

00:36:37.180 10 of attraction of attractiveness of this glut of photos right right i've taken start there and

00:36:43.980 then narrow down okay based on a tree or a color in the background or whatever looks interesting

00:36:49.800 i just don't understand i mean i'm fine with these photos i'm actually pretty happy with them

00:36:55.600 for mine i'm like you know just because yours are nice you know there's there's um i almost

00:37:00.920 i almost got mean there and i'm not going to do it no degrading the photographer that's what i'm

00:37:05.140 saying oh oh but there's no point right no yeah i don't think you want to do that yeah i'm not

00:37:10.660 going to yeah yeah yeah no i mean i i meant it after the fact i have the right choice i not

00:37:15.340 yeah sorry keep going right except except i can predict you your cruelty you know your incisive

00:37:21.560 cruelty would would devastate in specificity much more than you referencing that you quote

00:37:27.760 could be mean because you're about i think i even know what you're about to say and it's not

00:37:31.000 something we've talked about what you're gonna you're gonna criticize it artistically right

00:37:35.860 sure like oh you think that's a cool shot because whatever not even i was gonna go lower i was gonna

00:37:41.700 like be like all photographers are trash or something no no no um should you go low and we

00:37:49.720 beep bleep it out no no there's no there's no need there's no need there's no need no there's 0.88

00:37:54.520 no there's no need there's no need all right so um but but i was just saying grateful for the press

00:37:58.100 i was pretty happy with my photos relatively speaking um you know because i i yes i'm always

00:38:04.580 looking to i'm looking to be shocked i'm looking to have my my week ruined i've had entire weeks

00:38:09.740 by photos wow I mean I mean like truly like where you're like where it's that thing where

00:38:15.480 where people around you go um like I remember my sister once I showed her these pictures I was

00:38:21.040 really upset about that were taken at UCB ages ago and um and my sister just you know it wasn't

00:38:28.180 even like oh I think you look good it was like she like laughed and was like that doesn't look

00:38:32.440 like you yeah yeah and I'm like thank god but also like that's me but there I am yeah so I just I

00:38:39.180 You know, I, the mood I get into before a photograph is to be taken is pretty dark and

00:38:44.280 I'm, or anything physical appearance like related where it's like the expectation is

00:38:49.400 that I, you know, I'm going to find a cool outfit and it's, it's like, it goes wrong

00:38:54.720 every time.

00:38:55.620 And it's, and do you have, you know, the thing where you like just wake up the next

00:38:59.100 morning looking like infinitely better than when you were like, always, always, do you

00:39:03.840 find just interrupting quickly?

00:39:05.700 do you find that sometimes if you're hung over you look better i wonder if it's like the

00:39:10.360 dehydration there's a classic thing you know it's like oh yeah you don't want it because it's the 0.58

00:39:14.160 idea well alcohol bloats you or whatever you're gonna look like shit but on some i'm not saying

00:39:18.200 always but on some occasions if i don't sleep much and i'm a little hung over i wake up and i'm like 0.97

00:39:22.680 haunting 10 years off the face yeah something like like there's this like maybe it's the youthfulness

00:39:27.160 to the to the uh the swell the swelling i don't know just a little theory i have it's bloat though

00:39:33.760 oh you know I just realized I feel like you're almost drawn I can't hear myself this whole

00:39:36.880 episode I haven't heard myself I just realized oh I'm back because for so many for so many poogs I 0.99

00:39:42.140 could never hear myself I could only hear you yes that I'm used to that but I'm realizing because 1.00

00:39:47.020 the technical difficulty was around me not being able to hear you now I hear you but I don't hear

00:39:50.480 myself but that's fine we're finishing up and I don't care um there's my new resting face to work

00:39:55.920 my upper lip what not in public slated I can't quite see it okay I've just got a uh I've just

00:40:01.340 got a kind of it's kind of a you face you make an owl smile oh yeah it's very hate has an ability

00:40:06.740 to turn her mouth into a perfect you it's a v actually yeah i guess it is a v but i felt a u

00:40:11.600 would know but the point of the exaggeration that would help the listeners the v is exactly what

00:40:16.140 i'm proud of i can make it into a point right right right the point see for me it's the angle

00:40:22.000 right yeah no you're right the v yeah i can't i can't or i don't yet know how to turn it into a

00:40:28.680 it's a big we'll get that sorry this is not radio friendly leaning towards video um well i have dry

00:40:34.760 hands chronically any takers serious yeah is that real can't get them wet can't get them soft and

00:40:43.580 here's my issue and i want to and i need a full community to rally around me why am i getting

00:40:50.180 my cuticles it goes lotion they just said lotion the word lotion is completely absurd

00:40:56.660 why why why why why mother why must i have my cuticles be dry my hangnail hangnails are

00:41:07.140 happening they hurt what's going on is it is it and is it because is it being punished for years

00:41:12.700 of getting manicures do you push your cuticles back because there's a thing if you go to get

00:41:16.260 a manicure and there's always a woman there who goes just push back don't cut my mother so what's 0.99

00:41:20.540 the theory there all right so when they start snipping away at your cuticles to create a more

00:41:25.600 large nail bed yeah sometimes i'm salivating right now yeah bleed okay i know it they go too hard

00:41:31.780 have you ever bled i it's it's i go in there i get surgery every time i'm leaving with gauze

00:41:37.140 i'm bleeding i i mean i hate getting manicures and pedicures i would so if you have sensitive

00:41:43.500 cuticles that easily tear rip and whatever and i believe i do i do somewhat and my mother does

00:41:49.760 yeah i've started letting them clip but there's always a risk of blood because it's kind of

00:41:54.220 exciting because it's like when they do really trim the cuticle suddenly i have this like much

00:41:59.000 fuller nail bed um which is like a term i don't enjoy but i have more nail and it's kind of

00:42:04.500 exciting yeah but yeah you just push them back instead they just push them back so that you get

00:42:09.480 more nail bed and then like i don't know about if if i don't know if cutting cuticle it's not like

00:42:16.600 if you don't cut your cuticle it's going to grow all the way over the tip of your finger it's not

00:42:21.420 like something that technically requires a trim yeah right right arguably even the peeling of the

00:42:26.260 cuticle I mean it also strikes me I think my mother said this but I think some people when

00:42:30.840 you start snipping at the cuticle you're just making it worse like you're creating more like

00:42:35.400 more cut or something that's going to keep peeling you know like if if you interesting yeah you're

00:42:41.320 just like you're disrupting it gosh do you have a favorite nail on your fingers like like do you

00:42:47.180 like are all your nails the same i've never thought about having a favorite like the shape

00:42:51.100 like to me my ring fingernail is my best nail shape the others are very like they're barely

00:42:57.860 anything they're like they're really like small like you'd be shocked like i'm trying to see like

00:43:03.600 which one like this one will shock you it's uh my middle finger and it's just shaped like an egg

00:43:07.900 it's like what sounds great and not a vertical egg horizontal folks oh wow yeah horizontal like

00:43:14.000 i could never put a press on nail wait you have long nails a lot well my nails i want to talk

00:43:19.580 about dryness in the hands because i'm shocked i've almost i've had dryness but never on the

00:43:24.640 palm of the hand my hands are so dry and i've listen walita skin food is is heaven right i

00:43:30.880 love that that's thick stuff i'm out of it maybe that's the issue i just got to get lotion okay

00:43:35.700 there um lotion i was trying this hand cream lano l-a-n-o i don't know well i have an idea

00:43:43.500 experiment with treating your hand like a face okay so you start with you wash your hands whatever

00:43:49.620 you're in the shower all right they're nice and steamed and plumped and ready to accept

00:43:54.400 ingredients ready to accept actives okay you get out of the shower and before the pores

00:43:59.680 completely close while it's still warm spritz a little essence on there start with that then

00:44:04.740 layer in the next layers until you get completely creamed to a point of absurdity okay and you let

00:44:11.220 it soak in do you see what i'm saying that's i mean yeah i see what you're saying you're telling

00:44:15.300 me the palms are peeling no god no there's no peeling it's just a dryness it's mostly my nail

00:44:20.200 it's my cuticles and it's the skin around my nails is the thing that's really giving me a lot

00:44:23.720 of grief i wonder if you had my hand i mean what are you looking for sweaty palms a lot of people

00:44:28.100 don't i just want a nice smooth plump hand i don't know i can't even imagine because i'm wondering

00:44:33.480 i mean mine have always been wrinkly so it is an inherent wrinkle but what do you think about your

00:44:39.160 hands what sorry oh my god so i'm gonna moisturize my hands do you by the way yeah yeah no no go i'm

00:44:47.720 excited for the supplement hour oh my mom has entered oh my god oh my god she's passing waking

00:44:52.360 up yeah waking up and doing supplements together could be huge it's too pixelated unfortunately

00:44:56.840 sorry um waking up so is it in the morning i think it is all right so let's do that and maybe every

00:45:02.520 listener find a another find a supplement hack okay and god actually we shouldn't make any

00:45:08.940 medical recommendations of course not we could get sued can you imagine so i'm gonna keep up

00:45:14.680 with my i'm very excited because i've continued to take time-lapse footage of myself exercising

00:45:19.800 i'm gonna have the journey i'm gonna have a documentary and i was trying to imagine if

00:45:23.180 every time i work out right it's one minute it's about a one minute video or a 30 second video 0.94

00:45:27.660 because it's time-lapse right how long are the workouts an hour holy shit you're working out 0.79

00:45:31.360 for an hour well between 40 and an hour oh my god it's pretty intense that's a lot so i was like

00:45:37.340 i feel like before and after photos obviously are very exciting and i love seeing them

00:45:41.720 but wouldn't it be kind of fun to watch someone actually transform day by day okay and it'll be

00:45:48.380 micro you know what i'm saying you mean so then on christmas morning you'll post it and it'll be

00:45:52.240 one of those like one of those like time lapsing yep yep except it'll be like it won't be like

00:45:57.540 perfect because i don't line up in that way but you would have to watch like 10 seconds like

00:46:01.540 imagine watching an hour video of compilation of all the workouts and you just watch the person

00:46:07.040 slowly get in shape get get toned i can imagine it but i don't know i don't know i'm very excited

00:46:13.060 about it the recording of the thing is like the only thing keeping me going i relate to that

00:46:17.500 dynamic deeply of course maybe it's not the only thing i guess it's the mood benefits and that sort

00:46:22.480 of thing anyway supplement hag we're gonna have to wrap it up but what do we hit on today because

00:46:26.220 i actually felt oh i just wanted to say the ocd book which i'm gonna read uh it's good stuff the

00:46:31.540 assurances and whatever just gonna say whatever the title of that book is it's it was the mushrooms

00:46:35.920 the whole time needing to know for sure mushrooms the whole time is peak my ocd yeah yeah it was

00:46:41.220 the mushrooms all time is the subtitle of that book you know exactly exactly by the way i did

00:46:45.800 receive a message from someone who came to my show who had it sent back to the room they just

00:46:50.500 said tell her it was the mushrooms the whole time how sweet i loved it and that reminds me i hope

00:46:54.920 everyone has their tickets uh to boston uh music us out while i have to say jokesnovac.com

00:47:01.480 no wait i know what to say we have one more thing we have to say you can cut me talking

00:47:05.940 in the last minute to get this in i created a poog hag mailing list sign up form i have

00:47:13.320 posted it so go and sign up kids i mean it's it's you know just get in there get in there that way

00:47:20.260 you know if there's announcements whatever it's just i'm very excited about this i created the

00:47:25.040 form and i will not be dishonored by not seeing any sign i want you to miss out signups have

00:47:29.300 i have to pee so violently that i actually must no i think the episode is over that was poog

00:47:37.100 if you enjoyed poog please subscribe rate and review if not we will press charges

00:47:43.060 This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.

00:47:51.780 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune.

00:47:55.700 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

00:47:59.520 No, I am not your guru.

00:48:03.180 Back then, I lied to everybody.

00:48:05.480 They have had this case for 30 years.

00:48:08.420 I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.

00:48:11.080 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:41.080 Chase Matthew. Listen and subscribe on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

00:48:46.480 to podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - August 24, 2021

Love Is a Noun

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