Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Milk Frothers

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

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00:00:04.420 This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.

00:00:08.020 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune.

00:00:11.960 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

00:00:15.780 No, I am not your guru.

00:00:19.420 Back then, I lied to everybody.

00:00:21.720 They have had this case for 30 years.

00:00:24.660 I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.

00:00:28.220 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app,

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00:01:05.100 Hi, I'm Kate Verlant.

00:01:06.540 I'm Jacqueline Novak.

00:01:07.640 And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends.

00:01:12.380 Two uncamable intellects.

00:01:14.140 This is our hobby. 0.99

00:01:15.000 This is our hell.

00:01:15.860 This is our naked desire for free products.

00:01:18.140 This is POOG.

00:01:19.560 Today's topic, loosely speaking.

00:01:21.300 Lifting the great.

00:01:22.740 Fake phone calls. 1.00

00:01:23.740 Blonde wood.

00:01:25.540 i'm thinking of getting hey i'm thinking you might just you might see me um i mean you do

00:01:32.000 see me but i see you i'm thinking of getting into that whole gibson girl look do you know what that

00:01:36.560 is that's not true actually but but years ago i heard the term gibson girl looked it up and it's 1.00

00:01:42.520 like it's when they those women in like fucking i don't know 1906 i i don't know they they would 0.99

00:01:50.240 put a rat that was not a real rat but they would put something they called a rat and to create 0.99

00:01:55.300 extreme volume and it was this sort of up oh doesn't like this really suits us i agree

00:02:04.040 i do this already in the back volume at the crown is key for me do you talk to yourself

00:02:14.380 here okay here's a big question yeah do you ever narrate your own primping like like she gently

00:02:22.960 no be like what like please like i'm embarrassed like like doing like okay we're gonna start with

00:02:28.840 a serum and then we're gonna add like an asmr out loud completely narrate something not all the time

00:02:35.520 but sometimes just to have a little fun or if i'm feeling like i really don't want to floss i'll be

00:02:40.760 like so important to floss like all right sometimes i'll i'll just add in my own commentary that's

00:02:46.620 genius no i've never done that i am just i'm just suffering inside of sort of the primacy of one's

00:02:52.320 own consciousness when in fact i should think of pleasurable ways to get out um to separate myself

00:02:59.720 i'm trying to where have i done that i've been thinking so much about what you were saying was

00:03:03.100 it the last episode was episodes ago about and i lost it is that interesting i'm not kidding that

00:03:09.800 wasn't even i completely i knew it was real i was and it was just it just evaporated it just

00:03:15.000 absolutely evaporated well i was saying primacy of my consciousness maybe that triggered something

00:03:19.860 I mean, those were pretty potent words.

00:03:22.160 Well, I think, okay, I just got energized because, well, first of all, I had steamed

00:03:27.060 up some oat milk to put into coffee to drink as we were recording to energize myself.

00:03:31.180 Maybe it was that.

00:03:31.700 I forgot.

00:03:32.480 A memory of the time that you sent a hotelier.

00:03:36.220 That's not the right word.

00:03:37.700 Anyway, no, sorry.

00:03:38.600 You're energized.

00:03:39.300 Please go.

00:03:39.700 Well, no, I'm energized just because I'm imagining the energy because I think I might do something.

00:03:44.400 Maybe you call it rude.

00:03:45.420 Maybe you call it wrong.

00:03:46.400 I kind of want to walk away from the mic and get my coffee.

00:03:48.660 Get it.

00:03:48.960 i would be heinous okay right back because i'm just because i just i don't want the episodes

00:03:54.380 to suffer okay go no off you go and this is being included i uh feel a sense of loss if i end up

00:04:02.660 inside of an appointment without a drink of choice a coffee etc the horror thank god uh that it's

00:04:10.000 become standard in american culture to offer someone a coffee etc you can rarely count on

00:04:16.380 what the office has for example in a meeting not that i've ever been to a meeting and we're back

00:04:21.160 look at that wow nice foam yeah it's called a foam maker is that with a little uh twisty

00:04:27.040 vibrating a zoop zoop a submerging absolutely not that does not heat the product that has been

00:04:33.760 rendered useless at the moment of inception no by the way i've traveled there was a there was a

00:04:40.280 period in my life where i would travel with one of those little you press the top it's a whisker

00:04:44.260 it's electric i want to i want to make sure everyone knows exactly what we mean the small

00:04:48.340 battery operator it was a huge christmas you know stocking or a gift depending on what kind of

00:04:54.100 pricing point you're at for family my mother gave one to john early see and that's not see i'm smart

00:05:01.040 okay i knew it it felt like a like that was big like like a six six years ago that was on a lot

00:05:07.460 of lists like hey you can make lattes at home it was like the strategist front page yeah and

00:05:12.880 and although it has not stuck around i will say whether the strategist pushed it at all

00:05:17.680 i appreciate they have this ongoing list of their like favorites that year after year continue to

00:05:22.340 delight yeah and i have not seen that there but yeah so it's a small it's a vibrating stick with

00:05:27.680 a tiny little whisk at the end it will froth up something froth without the the added benefit of

00:05:34.040 temperature and so i would say the single most life-changing purpose wow taking it again we knew

00:05:40.600 what you meant the single most life-changing purchase that i've made in quarantine is no

00:05:46.420 or purpose or purpose i know trust me i know thematic question of

00:05:51.800 purchase purchase of purpose wow purpose of purchase purchase of purpose add to cart

00:05:59.340 yeah sorry go on okay so i bought a milk frother brand espresso brand i believe i repeat brand

00:06:06.660 Nespresso brand, I mean, not cheap.

00:06:10.560 I mean, it was maybe a whopping $80.

00:06:13.160 I don't know. 0.99

00:06:13.820 Damn. 1.00

00:06:14.120 Changed my life forever. 0.99

00:06:15.800 And talk about wellness has changed my mornings, okay?

00:06:19.260 Waking up to the foam.

00:06:20.800 You can never talk about your mornings without crying.

00:06:22.980 My mornings bring me to my knees because, but honestly, the way the foam energizes me,

00:06:28.660 the sensuality of the foam.

00:06:31.240 Okay, here's another thing.

00:06:32.400 So I, and again, this is, it's so humiliating.

00:06:34.700 I can't believe I'm letting this out.

00:06:36.200 but sometimes when i'm making my coffee in the morning i pretend that it's my coffee shop and

00:06:41.860 i started a small little coffee shop in like seattle but here's a here's here's a brutal

00:06:48.460 symptom of capitalism okay in the fantasy is it really me talking about my coffee shop i think

00:06:54.280 it's actually an american express ad of me being featured as a coffee shop owner it is for sure

00:07:00.600 it is for sure with rates like these you can finally start your business like interest loans

00:07:06.500 like and so it's me in the morning light by morning light i mean it's 11 15 but it's me

00:07:11.800 doing that it's high noon and and it's the it's that muted that muted palette of the american

00:07:18.720 express slow motion small business owner of the person lifting up the great when i work i worked

00:07:23.560 at a vintage store for years and it was my favorite thing was opening the store because i

00:07:27.780 would unlock the great in new york city you know and yes lift up the and the shuddering of it

00:07:32.100 there was like me in the morning like hey boys and i was like this is it i'm doing it really

00:07:39.080 i was i was like this is edith wharton's new york you know it felt completely it was so romantic

00:07:44.320 i also lifted a great i also lifted a great i i okay when i worked as a hostess at a very fancy

00:07:51.780 restaurant that was in the lobby of a hotel and thus which i always forget the name now and it's

00:07:56.920 gone but it was a hotel with a fancy restaurant in it but because it was a hotel and they were

00:08:01.800 served breakfast at 5 30 a.m i had to open it up and um at five yeah and so i i was living at my

00:08:09.540 parents house trying to get a gig going in in new york city and it was like you know that's the

00:08:14.920 thing it's like yeah like you want to be a performer like like so you work in a restaurant 0.97

00:08:19.040 that's that's the path right and i was like i don't want to get a job in goddamn advertising 0.93

00:08:23.900 or something like it's going to suck all my creative energy you know like i'm going to get 0.84

00:08:27.280 comfortable i wasn't even sure that was true but i remember feeling like that was the thing people

00:08:30.680 said so it almost felt like i had to do something like be a hostess or something in order to be in

00:08:36.120 constant state of reminder of what i was actually pursuing this is boring i hate this we're cutting

00:08:39.060 it okay but absolutely not i'm listening we'll find our way through don't take my stare no i

00:08:44.400 wasn't i wasn't even taking it it was my own um like this is not the joy of poop okay okay keep

00:08:50.360 keep going okay but but i but it will get me somewhere which is of course hostess and i um

00:08:56.980 would open the grate but i was living my parents house in the suburb and thus i would go home at

00:09:02.080 night it was dark and then i would go and i would get on the train to commute into the city to open

00:09:06.560 that place when it was also dark do you see what i'm saying um commuting to be a hostess is very

00:09:13.120 false and after a couple weeks i said goodbye um except i didn't say goodbye i sort of just said

00:09:20.440 i'm not coming in and then i sort of said and i'm still not coming in i've never um been good at

00:09:24.740 quitting i i just sort of quietly leave don't answer phone calls and then someone figures out

00:09:29.460 i'm no longer there i cried for like five seconds when i was fired from that job my great opening

00:09:34.740 job when they fired me i went and i and i was on the phone and i kind of was like and then i was

00:09:40.420 fine oh yeah anyway anyway the point i just want you to know that i too have lifted a great it's

00:09:46.240 incredible and it's it is a real feeling hello boys you know hurry up etc oh my god i mean

00:09:52.700 immediately transported to paris and have you ever been i never have did i get a five on the

00:09:58.600 french ap indeed i did did i study for multiple years did i etc etc never been to france i just

00:10:07.300 i know i know this is not even worth saying but you would love paris no i know i mean

00:10:14.640 it's i was in paris in october wow months before lockdown are you serious yeah why do i have no

00:10:22.160 recollection i'm incredibly lucky that i was able to travel right before how the fuck did i not know

00:10:28.700 you were in paris well i was working in london and the thing that's so incredible is that you

00:10:33.580 You can just an hour and a half away is Paris.

00:10:36.320 I don't know.

00:10:36.900 Living an hour and a half away from Paris surely would take the magic away from me.

00:10:41.480 Wow, what a thought.

00:10:43.220 Well, when you go, I have an incredible hotel.

00:10:45.800 I bet you do.

00:10:46.780 A hundred a night.

00:10:47.680 It's the only affordable hotel in Paris and the locations to die for.

00:10:51.400 And it's good?

00:10:51.780 Listen, they're not going to give you much.

00:10:53.200 They're going to give you a bed, some towels, and a water bottle if you're lucky.

00:10:55.940 But you're going to love it.

00:10:56.700 You're going to write.

00:10:57.440 Really?

00:10:58.300 Mm-hmm.

00:10:59.220 I mean, because I'm just leaning towards, I don't know if I'm looking for a deal.

00:11:02.420 well no i know but finally go to france like i don't but parisian hotels are just like maybe

00:11:08.740 the prices yeah but i mean no for a reason no but i'm just saying i have a great place it's 0.99

00:11:14.060 a great location that's not i think i know i mean do you think that the spoils of poog will spoil

00:11:20.280 poog no well is there a wellness resort in paris there must be a kind there must be obviously the

00:11:26.960 french love beauty okay but if i go to paris i don't want i want to be hung over every morning

00:11:31.660 you know i don't want to go to paris but we can still go to the spa in the morning

00:11:35.580 okay and hydrate and then destroy ourselves at night which is the ultimate dream right

00:11:40.800 destroyed at night stumbling into the spa in the morning you and me the stench of wine on my lip

00:11:47.480 actually one of the drunkest times i've ever been is paris and i was probably i think i was 21 20

00:11:55.820 so another trip to paris is what you've just revealed there's been multiple i guess i've

00:11:59.800 I've been, not that I'm counting, but four times?

00:12:02.260 Oh my God, it hurts me.

00:12:03.920 Now let me ask you this.

00:12:05.160 Did you take French ever?

00:12:08.120 No. 0.98

00:12:08.900 Yeah, see, this is the indignity.

00:12:11.500 I don't speak a word.

00:12:12.340 What was all that work for?

00:12:13.360 I can speak fake French.

00:12:14.660 Listen to this.

00:12:15.380 Oh, I bet you can. 0.99

00:12:16.000 Fake French, I've been speaking since I was a teenager, 0.99

00:12:17.940 which goes something like...

00:12:18.920 Let's hear it.

00:12:24.220 Okay, that's a really good kick.

00:12:25.920 I know what it's going to be, but it's better than I thought.

00:12:27.880 That used to be a trick that I would do in New York City to avoid people, you know, trying to put their clipboards.

00:12:32.940 God bless them.

00:12:33.760 You know, Amnesty International.

00:12:35.440 Okay.

00:12:35.500 It's not necessarily a good mode of collection.

00:12:38.140 I usually go, I already remember.

00:12:39.440 Don't God bless them.

00:12:41.680 Like Greenpeace.

00:12:42.720 By the way, Greenpeace.

00:12:43.680 Isn't Greenpeace?

00:12:44.360 Whatever.

00:12:44.640 I'm not going to throw Greenpeace at us.

00:12:47.100 But I feel like there is something.

00:12:49.260 Oh, because Greenpeace would never acknowledge that animal agriculture actually is the leading contributing factor to global warming.

00:12:55.340 Anyway, so.

00:12:56.500 Methane. 1.00

00:12:56.900 The cow's methane.

00:12:57.620 peace being in bed with big ham or whatever i don't know again i know almost nothing but

00:13:02.440 but i used to get out of it by speaking french so i'd have my i'd grab my cell phone also

00:13:07.220 pretending to speak on the phone is one of my great arts it's actually really a it's actually

00:13:12.060 that's almost the only barometer i have in my life for for growing up and for kind of having

00:13:15.600 achieved some kind of new emotional stratosphere internally where i don't have to pretend to talk

00:13:20.700 on the phone to avoid or to in order to suture together moments in which i might have nothing

00:13:25.560 to do but just have to be raw right in the world not want to right right and not want to talk to

00:13:30.100 you and that's okay why do you have to falsify even someone i had okay okay okay this goes back

00:13:34.100 to something that i wanted to talk about which is what you brought up which is something that

00:13:36.720 i've always thought about for years you as well we all do that thing of like getting through life

00:13:41.320 by pretending you're in a movie or that someone's watching you right and so i recently went to the

00:13:45.920 beach alone for the first time you know and i and i went down there i had my blanket really

00:13:51.180 this is huge because don't forget thank you who taught you how to go to a pool alone

00:13:55.340 who coached you who coached you and i want to talk about this is huge i completely forgot that

00:14:00.480 this is actually a huge cornerstone of the friendship so i oh my god so i would be at

00:14:05.600 hotels you know for work or whatever i need to say that for work so that people don't think i'm

00:14:10.400 just like going to hotels just for fun like absolutely not and so i would be at a and i

00:14:16.520 would always be way too scared to go to the pool alone and Jacqueline when did this for what

00:14:21.340 reason happen it's not about it's not about safety be clear no social anxiety and I talk about it

00:14:26.600 yeah social anxiety yeah something about being alone at the pool and like the moment that you

00:14:31.940 take off your towel and you're in you know your underwear and you're wading into the water

00:14:36.860 something about it is so I'm just crushed by it I'm crushed about public performance of solitude

00:14:42.500 and of somehow gaining like the nutrition of solitude but being aware of other people seeing

00:14:48.880 you get it i don't know something but i'll just say that when i went to the beach very recently

00:14:52.500 i had my towel i had my hat i really over packed too i had like a video camera i had a thermos

00:14:57.740 like i brought way too much like two books a notebook lest i choose to write like i was really

00:15:03.400 in fact i was so weighed down by the materials i was like i don't i can't walk that far so i came 0.79

00:15:08.080 down to the beach and then I was like oh shit like this is stuff so heavy I had water I had 0.90

00:15:12.680 seltzer I had a kombucha I think it was way too much wow and so then so okay so I was there 0.98

00:15:17.640 beach was quite empty there were a few people and a couple of them just kind of naturally looked up

00:15:22.460 at me just the way you would if you saw something moving in your periphery and I was so overwhelmed

00:15:28.160 by them seeing me that I and this is a low point for me this is a return to old patterns I took out

00:15:34.100 my phone I took out my phone and looked at it and started to look around the beach as though I was

00:15:39.640 looking for my friend so like oh I'm here I must have beat I must have beat them here like weird

00:15:45.160 so I kind of looked down the beach like kind of do a full at this point there's no way they're

00:15:49.320 still watching me I'm still engaged in the full performance of hmm where are they okay so then I 0.89

00:15:53.600 put the phone down I go Kate no you're here alone and they're gonna goddamn learn the hard way okay

00:15:57.560 so that i so i'm so weighed down by the by the props that i walk down and i just decide this

00:16:04.280 is gonna do so i you know socially distant i'm very far from them yeah but i lay out my towel

00:16:08.640 i sit there it was amazing i have to say i have to say the majesty of the ocean really did capture

00:16:15.560 me right and i did the unthinkable i took my pants off well i didn't have i didn't have a

00:16:20.600 bathing suit because it wasn't like i wasn't going to go into the ocean oh you didn't have

00:16:23.740 so you treated your underwear as though they were bikini bottoms yes but i took off my jeans and i

00:16:28.300 was in just a t-shirt and my underwear and i was like damn what was your underwear like um french

00:16:32.680 cut black okay so that's kind of like a potentially being a bikini yeah yeah yeah and i was like i 0.51

00:16:38.480 dare anyone to call the sheriff you know but it was really freeing and then i stopped i no longer

00:16:46.060 picked up the phone but i just i meant to tell that story to highlight that i used to have to

00:16:50.480 use the phone to pretend and in fact a couple times i remember in like a romantic encounter

00:16:55.160 again this is a long time ago i've grown out of this but like i remember one time meeting someone

00:17:00.660 on a date and i saw them approaching and i was like i couldn't bear the moment of me standing

00:17:06.940 there them seeing me and then just facing each other hugest things i lived to relate and walking

00:17:12.240 toward each other i was like i need to break this moment this is hell and so i took out my phone

00:17:16.760 and i oh i'm getting a call and then i kept the call going until they were very close and then

00:17:22.600 did the finger up sorry mouth sorry and then went okay i'll call you back and then sorry sorry hi

00:17:27.960 hi hi hi no they never knew my shock is because i literally wrote about this pages pages okay

00:17:35.440 in something in the pages app okay and i have a lot to say about this but but maybe i will cover

00:17:42.780 it when we get back because i feel like we're almost okay i'm dying so let's go to break so

00:17:45.660 can get right back and then i want to also cover arancino who i can't remember the name

00:17:52.480 arancino i know i've got it wrong it's the frothing via nespresso's um i want to tell

00:17:58.780 you about the device a little more that people didn't get to know anything about the device

00:18:01.380 the frothing okay

00:18:02.940 this is rider strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather it was many and many

00:18:12.060 a year ago in a kingdom by the sea in 1995 my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune

00:18:19.120 it was hard to wrap your head around it was nature and trees and praying and drugs no i am not your

00:18:26.140 guru and back then i lied to my parents i lied to police i lied to everybody there were years

00:18:33.780 right where i could not say your name i've decided to go back to my hometown in northern

00:18:37.700 California, interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can to try to find

00:18:42.940 out what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods

00:18:47.560 and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of

00:18:53.220 to come around here and my wife. Boom, boom. This is The Red Weather. Listen to The Red Weather 1.00

00:19:00.700 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:19:07.700 okay tell me right now so i can't stand um similarly and i feel like i'm just about to

00:19:16.860 repeat back to you so if there's nothing fresh in here that's fine okay but i need you to understand

00:19:20.440 how deeply i understand i don't like meeting someone okay and navigating the moment of whether

00:19:27.020 they see you first or you see them first okay i certainly don't enjoy walking into a place like

00:19:32.400 or walking to a corner where you're expected to meet someone and looking around knowing that they 0.99

00:19:36.760 might be looking at you looking around as the fool yeah okay okay as the fool now oh god oh god 0.99

00:19:44.200 i'm getting nervous so it's almost like tell me exactly where you are you know this this kind of 0.99

00:19:48.300 thing right yes and then i also don't like the approach from a distance okay because i actually

00:19:53.040 think so here's here's a way to bring in dear listener okay in a way that they may understand

00:19:57.280 so imagine you're meeting someone on the corner of 57th and 9th okay i was hoping you'd say 9th

00:20:01.860 I got it.

00:20:02.720 I used to work right around there.

00:20:04.980 God, I had it all in front of me, and I wasted every drop.

00:20:07.620 I was there in the late 57th and 9th.

00:20:10.660 So you're meeting on a corner, and you see them,

00:20:13.000 and you're at the same intersection, but you're not on the same side.

00:20:15.580 So they're on the west side of the street.

00:20:17.060 You're on the east side of the street.

00:20:18.060 You're both on the north side of the street.

00:20:19.520 Okay, do you see what I'm saying, Kate?

00:20:20.660 Got it.

00:20:21.000 Got it.

00:20:21.020 Okay.

00:20:21.540 I learned northeast, southwest very recently.

00:20:23.980 I mean, I knew them in a certain sense, but only honestly.

00:20:27.520 You were familiar with them conceptually, of course.

00:20:29.460 Yeah.

00:20:30.660 Impractical.

00:20:31.060 It just something clicked in for me last couple of years where I can finally identify that, you know, oh, west side, you know, north side of the street or south side of the street.

00:20:39.200 I used to just like guess I'd be like, well, 50 percent chance I'll get it right.

00:20:42.460 No. And then if I get it wrong, they can go. It's not the other one.

00:20:44.420 I go, oh, yeah, no, it's that one.

00:20:45.520 You know, but I now finally have command over north east southwest in all contexts or in cities and cities like city blocks, like understanding that.

00:20:53.040 In fact, I almost now have a preternatural ability to.

00:20:57.060 Well, that's a laugh.

00:20:58.380 okay okay that going from not having not having you're like i actually have a um

00:21:05.260 preternatural sense now about right and left i can identify my right hand before almost anyone

00:21:10.060 in this country okay this is something consensual to who i am that i do attribute almost spiritual

00:21:15.360 properties to things that are not spiritual like telling time to me used to be kind of this like

00:21:20.960 almost spiritual thing yeah like there was a magic to it and yeah so so that but it's not

00:21:27.460 magical right it's just one way or the other i was joking i actually think everything's magical

00:21:31.960 and i i believe that perhaps you do have a preternatural thank you but no but now i'm more

00:21:37.260 interested in knowing what side of this like different beds in my life and being like which

00:21:41.400 way was i facing when i was sleeping and being like oh i sleep on my my i mean i sleep all i

00:21:46.740 sleep in every way but like i'm like oh if i was on my right cheek i was facing north and now here

00:21:52.260 i am in new york city on my right cheek and i'm facing totally you see you you've triggered me to

00:21:58.020 another thing i'm interested in but i really need to finish up okay oh the thing about strangers

00:22:02.420 meeting someone yes so there they are across the street now the hell i would almost rather pretend

00:22:07.720 i don't see them across the street of course of course but a lot of people don't specify when they

00:22:11.900 talk about meeting at an intersection they don't say we'll meet on the northwest side of this you

00:22:15.380 know it's just the generic of the intersection okay and so then so i almost think the best bet

00:22:21.660 is if you see them across the way and you are meeting on specifics i like to almost like try

00:22:25.360 to like not see them okay but i'm not going to do that because i'm not a liar you know what i mean

00:22:28.880 so instead so let's say you're across the street okay you see each other from afar okay obviously

00:22:33.560 you wait hey okay now what do you do during the wait for the light to turn okay that's hard do

00:22:39.780 you clown for 35 seconds yeah because i feel that what happens because you have the audience across

00:22:44.680 the street or your friend you become less concerned about the people around you because 0.89

00:22:47.880 it's all about the performance of your friend so suddenly there's a lot of like goofing or

00:22:51.260 something okay and the problem is if you do too much up top too much clowning up top but it's

00:22:56.540 like a minute wait yeah then you have to stop clowning and kind of look away and that is another

00:23:01.500 performance now you're performing just that you're normally just waiting to be alone you're

00:23:06.680 pretending that what happened did not happen okay yeah and then you meet and whatever okay so i don't

00:23:11.680 like that and then like in a restaurant for example i will should be like if i'm there first

00:23:17.300 and I see them arrive. I politely look away. I let them surprise me. Oh, I see them. I look down.

00:23:24.940 I study the menu. I look at the phone, et cetera. And I let them get so close, close to me that I'm

00:23:31.300 startled. Oh, yeah. That seems like the best way to do it. But see, I am recalling now meeting

00:23:37.660 someone similarly. Well, you know, we'd never met in person, seeing them enter, go, oh, God,

00:23:42.280 oh god and then pretend to be focused on whatever was in front of me be it a phone or something we

00:23:49.040 all know it's a phone right and then not your small watercolor kit but then being a little

00:23:53.900 scared that they did see me see them so then they caught me in their performance which is actually

00:23:58.320 its own separate hell which is so the ultimate hell of course is the ultimate hell so it's almost

00:24:03.600 worth risking it all and locking eyes as they walk toward you no and and if you push through

00:24:10.180 sometimes you can discover that that which seemed some would say what is so painful about the thing

00:24:16.700 that you're avoiding and it's like it's not like I sat down one day and decided to be afraid of

00:24:21.360 these things it's more like we feel the impulse and we feel ourselves responding to the impulse

00:24:26.080 to perform this that or whatever and and it's sort of like and then it just it's sort of habit and

00:24:31.940 you assume there's something to it and that's why you feel the need I don't know also I think

00:24:35.740 if someone sees you across the room your personality isn't there you don't have your

00:24:40.560 verbally you can't exactly you can't add to the portrait your body yeah you might as well be on

00:24:44.980 all fours like gaping it's like you're completely you're contextless like it's so brutal and so

00:24:54.220 in those moments why i fear death contextless again this is my issue for everything i mean 0.98

00:24:59.320 my number one fear is being the fool okay and so so when you're dead so is your fear of being 0.98

00:25:03.900 the dead body there fine and then at last you're unable you're finally there's no way language you 0.99

00:25:08.980 have no say in the matter and they just observe you you are finally reduced to just me and you're

00:25:13.660 no longer able to entice them through language no not even the body but but the personality which

00:25:19.520 is of course your genius joke due to it being my number one fear what is someone not realizing i

00:25:26.760 know i'm dead it's the funniest thing in the entire world it's the utter humiliation of death

00:25:32.680 um and it's why i insist on ghosthood etc etc okay don't you dare look at a dead person and 0.98

00:25:39.420 think they're the fool who doesn't know how dare you fool in flesh um but wait i just want to say 0.89

00:25:46.260 one thing you mentioned a milk frother earlier you mentioned an espresso brand i'm bringing it 0.98

00:25:50.580 back and we'll we'll find our way back here okay because we're not done wait i just have to briefly

00:25:54.540 say because you're talking about death and something i've been thinking about a lot lately

00:25:57.800 is like oh wait i think if we talked about this on pook or just privately how my kind of fantasy

00:26:02.340 of like dying in a group home with my friends like like this kind of like as the pandemic shows us

00:26:08.440 like the nuclear family has failed right like that's actually having like a family actually 0.79

00:26:13.460 doesn't give you kind of safety shit like yeah or just or happiness well all the above but also

00:26:18.920 like we actually do need community we need we all breathe the same air having friends i am i am no 0.94

00:26:23.480 it's hysteria you're obsessed with community and you're obsessed with having friends like

00:26:26.140 you're always like you're always talking about how important friendship is i know which of course it

00:26:32.020 is and i know you feel it's ignored and i obviously agree i'm really interested in other

00:26:36.600 forms of intimacy and public intimacy is all these things truly but like i would feel knowing i could

00:26:43.420 die like i talked to john sometimes about like wanting to die in like a twin bed like next to

00:26:48.280 him of course you do yeah because it's like i just think that like it's so hideous we could

00:26:53.460 like jacqueline if you yeah john and i right could be elderly together in a room together

00:27:00.420 are dying together that seems pretty cool that seems quite no i know i know but what's funny

00:27:06.500 about you kate what's funny about you but then we have to figure out oh the money part like the

00:27:10.480 financials i wasn't worried about that specifically no it's like it's very you because for one you're

00:27:18.720 creating a scenario around exactly your desires so it's like it's like it's like it's like where

00:27:25.160 is my husband in this i don't have a husband but for example right it's like it's like you

00:27:30.840 i assume all our partners are dead right and and you assume that because you actually want that to

00:27:35.780 be true for the for the the scenario you just described right you i'm trying to evade my own

00:27:41.860 loneliness my own fears of perhaps not being partnered departing your friends towards yeah

00:27:47.680 and then right right and so i kind of am imagining a future in which no it's not either you are you

00:27:54.080 know romantically partner until you die but there's actually other ways to of course have

00:27:58.200 intimacy and to not die alone no totally and the die alone thing but proximity is huge for me

00:28:03.180 dying alone oh but people love you like no who's in the room sweetheart see i i oh by the way i got

00:28:10.500 clarity from my mother i asked about that hospice thing that anecdote remember the like well dying

00:28:15.060 upright yeah or just like something but i asked my mom i was like did i get it right was it wasn't

00:28:18.960 it something like that i just remember this image of the person dying upright and kind of like die

00:28:22.600 and she was like what it was was they said at the hospice they said um like some deaths are

00:28:28.540 difficult or something like some are easy some are difficult not meaning the grief okay meaning 0.98

00:28:34.460 like not everyone merely passes away and i'm screaming in a fucking hospice where it's all 0.89

00:28:41.240 palliative yeah no no but but i i know how you think and i just to me that that twin bed with 0.96

00:28:48.700 generally description okay you're just saying you know how i think you really do know how i think

00:28:53.740 it's the same as you going i'm coming to new york for a week and i'd like to have a dinner and i'd

00:28:58.600 like it to be you and me and john okay and i and i'm specifically here's the restaurants i'm

00:29:02.360 thinking okay and it's like it's the ultimate like and lock it in lock it in can we lock in

00:29:06.840 the date can we lock in the date and then your fear of others like almost getting involved like

00:29:11.480 like this like and it'll be like secret it'll just be us whatever and it's like listen and

00:29:16.460 sometimes as you know it's like the light of the you know the person who when the light of their

00:29:20.600 gaze like jude law in talented mr ripley okay and the light of their gaze shines upon you it's like

00:29:26.260 the sun it's the warmest thing in the world okay but then it turns away it's like there are times

00:29:31.880 where i can feel the flattery of being the solution to your anxiety but then there are

00:29:36.120 times where it's depersonalizing okay because like there are times where like your anxiety can 0.97

00:29:41.360 be stated by you know a private hang with john okay where i'm off doing whatever the fuck i'm 0.79

00:29:46.820 doing right right where i'm not the useless drug and so it's like it's like the moments where i am 0.66

00:29:52.080 the useful drug like like i kind of know that like there are days and times where i'm not you

00:29:57.180 know and i mean that's so interesting well because you're you're on a short list though

00:30:01.400 jacklyn like you're on a short list of people i love who i i'm one of my big you know this is all

00:30:07.740 about the burden of growing up as james hollis would say right this and i am i love the presence

00:30:12.880 of hollis in our recent episodes because it's what you're reading you know i mean i would love

00:30:16.780 to talk to him he's the burden of what a friend's reading i'm not this is not that but i think it's

00:30:21.440 hysterical idea like like how you are forced into the i mean i'm the worst whatever i'm reading is

00:30:27.560 gospel yeah of course and i'm forcing the terms on people okay please go on and i'm loving the

00:30:32.680 hollis talk and actually i woke in the night going home i'm going to read all of hollis before the

00:30:36.820 next poog and shock kate and pretend i'd read it for years so much all right go on oh no i just

00:30:42.620 was saying this is maybe too unbearably um you know it's not uh what's the word i'm looking for

00:30:49.920 unbearably indulgent but it's like i one of my great lessons i have to learn myself is to um

00:30:56.500 self-regulate right self-soothe classic and so i am trying to when i feel that's kind of my life's

00:31:02.140 work right now is feeling the anxiety having it come up and instead of reaching for my phone

00:31:06.520 calling you calling john you know doing something like that you know going in where

00:31:10.220 at first i thought you go instead of reaching for my phone i call you i call john i i tell you to

00:31:15.500 come over i was like no no it's like i and i i am grateful for the fact that i do that i can

00:31:22.200 get solace and comfort and connection and through calling you but it's also important for me to do

00:31:28.460 that work myself so that also you don't feel as you said kind of completely objectified as just

00:31:34.200 a nether tit for me to procure milk and i never actually feel that because no i i don't think so

00:31:41.380 you know i'm just saying because i think it's funny like but and we all do this for each other

00:31:44.540 and whatever and it's it's uh it's okay to be held uh sometimes for sure right but but no but

00:31:51.300 you were you were saying the arancino what's that well i i just want the listeners to understand

00:31:59.260 that earlier when you're talking about a frother we should pivoting radically to milk frother now

00:32:03.320 okay no we're gonna pivot right back this is just a brief continuation okay okay i just want to clear 0.98

00:32:08.460 up we we shit on we shit on the thing that merely whisks your milk into a state of visible 0.98

00:32:13.980 that's for children by the way i've used that promise warmth it only seems to promise that by 0.99

00:32:18.300 the way travel on an airplane oh okay soaring above yeah and people looking at me this is when

00:32:23.180 i was into chaga right this is when i was doing mushroom powders and i would religiously have a

00:32:27.960 cup of tea or have oh yeah like hot water on the plane just a hot water for me please just

00:32:33.260 rustling around rustling around your bag you're in your bag by the way you see your elbows

00:32:38.140 sharply jutting into the ribs of those next to you as you scramble for your frother by the way 0.99

00:32:44.000 i just want to say the absolute injury of carrie bradshaw yeah there's one episode of sex in the 1.00

00:32:49.280 city they're they're they're at brunch they're ordering brunch and carrie bradshaw asks for 1.00

00:32:54.060 hot water with some lemon please and that's all she orders the meal and that of course ruined

00:33:00.220 many lives but is it was it supposed to demonstrate depression or no she was happy she was like 0.90

00:33:05.860 getting fucked she was like fresh off a great date and so she was just like actually you know 0.86

00:33:10.160 and miranda's like i'll have a short stack with bacon eggs and the whole thing and carrie bradshaw 0.98

00:33:16.000 is like um her hands are like this i know exactly her hands are oh um i'll have some hot water and 0.97

00:33:22.000 some lemon please and i remember being like this is femininity i must reduce in order to achieve 0.97

00:33:29.620 yeah it was it was painful that was the trough okay they made miranda trough where they could 0.79

00:33:35.860 where they could shut up this is a perfect example of me using shuttle okay okay where they could

00:33:40.600 just sort of swiftly shuttle everything human that they took away from the other characters

00:33:47.180 all excess all excess gets shoveled into the trough shuttled and shoveled into the trough

00:33:51.780 of miranda like yeah like like almost like like the fail safe no it's interesting to think about 0.99

00:33:56.540 looking at sex in the city through the lens of feminine excess right because yes i'm realizing 0.85

00:34:01.600 kind of charlotte right was just like excessive need right character of like need and want and

00:34:07.560 kind of bottomless like attachment anxiety samantha obviously being excessive um sexuality 1.00

00:34:12.740 yeah miranda excessive womanness like excess yeah like excessive like independence excessive like 1.00

00:34:20.520 she she'll eat a chocolate eclair you know and it's kind of like excessive she had a cat 1.00

00:34:24.960 she was a lawyer and she didn't have long hair but literally she just didn't have long hair

00:34:29.620 that was it what like have a baby but like i'm still gonna have my job like like it was like 0.71

00:34:34.300 there was some of that like she was wrestling with the judgments of the fact of having a nanny 0.82

00:34:38.540 that was that was that was one of them but anyway go on they all had this excess what is carrie's 0.99

00:34:42.800 excess shoes that actually carrie and this is why carrie actually is i'll tell you a little hard to

00:34:49.340 connect to right but yeah i mean a lot of people like these days like freely are just like carrie's

00:34:53.960 a monster you know like because it was never like discussed and now there's like well carrie's a 1.00

00:34:57.800 carrie's a fucking nightmare like you know she's an asshole nightmare yeah can you look she is she's 1.00

00:35:02.460 she's the worst of them all i haven't watched in a long time okay but but her i'm planning to re-watch 1.00

00:35:06.620 in 2021 the excess of carry i would posit maybe is and this is you know i'm not someone with a

00:35:14.500 podcast on sex in the city i'm speaking without depth here but of course instinctually i'd say

00:35:19.500 her desire to have what she wants okay like uh-huh like there's a selfishness right even like

00:35:28.580 even like her disappointment yeah like her dissatisfaction with what's his name i mean 0.84

00:35:35.820 which one the guy who's always in the guy who's in the corner fucking whittling a chair at all 0.71

00:35:40.780 times aiden yeah yeah aiden okay i feel that america was trying to say aiden's perfect and 0.98

00:35:47.160 how dare you yeah how dare you want more okay how dare you want you know the flash of mr big you

00:35:54.780 know aiden's right there and he's whittling a chair as we speak okay and it's like no actually 0.99

00:35:59.720 um aiden is fucked up too you know like he doesn't he doesn't get carrie fuck but anyway 0.99

00:36:06.980 this is bringing up a lot okay but but carrie's just like a i mean what is carrie she's a whiny 1.00

00:36:14.240 kind of asshole or she's a but i'm not talking about like a cultural understanding of like what 1.00

00:36:18.800 her excess is but like within the logic of the show what is her excess but i think yeah her excess 1.00

00:36:23.800 you could say is that kind of feminine longing romance romanticism like she is she wants shoes

00:36:30.160 she wants which i am as well so i relate deeply to carrie yes she wants yeah i mean it's like

00:36:35.820 it's the shoes she carries she she wow that's what it is it's what she carries oh you know i

00:36:44.220 almost wanted to there was a brief period where i had the desire to bleach part of my hair because

00:36:47.940 i of course you know curly hair like myself i can be entitled to a carrie bradshaw lifestyle and so

00:36:52.820 So I, her, the classic look, the baseball episode,

00:36:56.160 her in the fur coat with the sunglasses

00:36:58.420 and the, you know, her beach blonde waves.

00:37:01.560 And so I remember texting a friend of mine

00:37:03.660 who's in the fashion industry, right?

00:37:06.280 You know, should I do this to my hair?

00:37:08.120 And she just responded, no.

00:37:09.500 And I was so shut down, but she saved me ultimately.

00:37:12.860 Well, you know, we all dream if we're not blonde

00:37:16.420 of going blonde and what it could do for us,

00:37:18.840 how it could elevate us.

00:37:20.080 And I do want to address that.

00:37:21.220 I do want to cover the arancino when we return. 0.99

00:37:23.760 Suddenly desperate to go blonde. 1.00

00:37:25.160 Not the whole thing. 0.96

00:37:25.900 It's not going blonde if it's partial. 0.64

00:37:27.740 That's all I have to say there.

00:37:28.800 No, I would never go full blonde, but partial blonde.

00:37:30.600 But just imagine my hair with some dirty blonde highlights.

00:37:36.840 Highlights are a false.

00:37:38.700 Highlights are a lie.

00:37:39.980 If I got highlights, can you imagine?

00:37:41.640 If you got highlights, it's over for you.

00:37:43.280 I would be brutalizing it in the papers.

00:37:45.540 We'll be back soon.

00:37:46.320 this is writer strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather it was many and many a

00:37:55.820 year ago in a kingdom by the sea in 1995 my neighbor and a trainer disappeared from a commune

00:38:02.560 it was hard to wrap your head around it was nature and trees and praying and drugs no i am not your

00:38:09.560 and back then i lied to my parents i lied to police i lied to everybody there were years

00:38:17.200 right where i could not say your name i've decided to go back to my hometown in northern

00:38:21.120 california interview my friends family talk to police journalists whomever i can to try to find

00:38:26.360 out what actually happened isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods

00:38:30.980 and not the obvious boyfriend they have had this case for 30 years i'll teach you sons of

00:38:36.640 You come around here with my wife.

00:38:38.620 Boom, boom.

00:38:39.920 This is The Red Weather.

00:38:42.940 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app,

00:38:45.500 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:38:53.680 We're back.

00:38:54.580 We're here.

00:38:55.060 I have one thing to say.

00:38:55.960 The Arancino heats the milk on your countertop, okay?

00:38:59.480 What in God's name is an Arancino?

00:39:01.780 Is that a brand?

00:39:02.800 Or is that an Italian phrase?

00:39:03.940 It's the one that came with my Nespresso.

00:39:05.680 you referenced oh maybe arachino i don't know milk frother frother that is it has a tiny brand

00:39:11.800 yes but it did it come with your nespresso did you buy it separately is it black and silver

00:39:16.340 does it have a tiny little whisk sitting inside of the shelf that is the thing okay yeah i think

00:39:21.920 it's arachino brand or aranchino brand espresso mine came in the nespresso box oh that's psychotic

00:39:29.320 that's what i'm trying to say i knew you didn't hear that you didn't hear it because you didn't

00:39:32.520 want to hear it i don't want to hear it they came in espresso box but it's a different brand that's

00:39:36.280 the love that's the chaos i'm not ready to accept all right so there's that now i just want to say

00:39:40.880 that the highlights would ruin you highlights would ruin you yeah i'm not doing of course i'm

00:39:45.300 not by the way i would be greeted with laughter global laughter also anyone that knew me that ran

00:39:51.360 into me with highlights it would be like i mean it's just not possible it's devastation it's it's

00:39:55.140 it's so not for you i mean do you think you know that you're sexy right depends is this too

00:40:02.360 embarrassing yeah okay no i just want to say do you find because this is the thing and people

00:40:06.000 want to like to be a woman in comedy right the question that yeah continues to somehow be asked

00:40:11.200 but it's like yeah okay so what because one of the one of the central issues of that question

00:40:16.720 well there's this other thing right which is like the desexualization of the funny woman

00:40:21.380 you know that you're sexy and okay okay i know that i'm sexy you're what am i trying to say this

00:40:27.820 no it's like don't you hate don't you hate it when people say to you like you're actually sexy

00:40:35.000 or like oh my god it's like people are like you're hot i know right right like they're they

00:40:42.120 assume that um or that by taking on the mantle well it's not dissimilar from the other one

00:40:48.280 which is you know someone watches comedy and says like you know you're actually really smart like

00:40:55.520 i've realized that comedians like like you actually have to have to be really smart to

00:41:00.280 be a good comedian like and they they're telling you in the same way it's it's it's like take off

00:41:06.400 the makeup you know wipe off the mascara it's the they believe they're revealing to you right right

00:41:12.760 something you did not know about yourself it's it's like pretty much you don't know it's smart 0.97

00:41:16.320 but she doesn't know it they're leaning forward with a damn cloth taking off your my makeup going 0.97

00:41:20.900 that's exactly look at that and you're like yeah i know i put the makeup on you fool you think i 0.98

00:41:25.760 don't know what's under the mask i put it on no right painstaking every day i'm aware of what

00:41:31.620 lies beneath the face paint well and then there's the kind of inverse of the you know i remember

00:41:38.280 someone saying you know like they get there i am wearing red lipstick and then being running

00:41:42.160 into them on the street and i'm being like you don't you don't need that well that who the hell

00:41:47.360 did that i'm not gonna name them but i'll tell you crazy it's kind of like you don't need that 0.51

00:41:52.380 and then like it's it's terrible because like they they act as though they're complimenting

00:41:56.240 you they're giving you this truth about like that you're natural okay yeah and it's like and what

00:42:01.100 am i supposed to do respond out of my bright red lips like thank you like out of the very painted

00:42:07.920 lips with which they've just mocked like thank you like like thus making my lips an embarrassment

00:42:13.520 when it's like a choice i have done myself it's uh it's ugly it's also it's also assuming that

00:42:19.220 the pleasure of adornment lies only in the beholder right it's like no exactly and that's

00:42:26.060 when you have to scream i'm doing it for me and other women or whatever you know like i became

00:42:31.160 this women dress for other women idea was like rolling around for a while and i feel like it

00:42:35.960 was said simultaneously very women's mag yeah and it was and it was sort of like supposed to be uh

00:42:42.040 like it's not about you boys was kind of the like it's like we're policing each other don't worry

00:42:47.200 we're so aware of your gaze that we actually can only perceive ourselves and each other 0.57

00:42:51.700 through that very lens right yeah and i don't know but yeah it's um that sucks and then um

00:42:57.520 and then wait but i wanted there was something else i'm sorry

00:43:02.840 i wasn't gonna go back to the foamer i felt like i covered it but all the foamer is is the thing

00:43:08.620 that's simultaneously heating and whisking and that's kind of interesting because all it is it's

00:43:13.100 absolutely life-changing no i know but what i'm saying is interesting that it is the very thing

00:43:16.780 we mock plus heat that's all it is the same yeah but it's a circle of wires you know it's a little

00:43:23.160 donut of wire okay that's the whisker and it's just that sitting on top of a heat shelf you know

00:43:29.220 and yet kate burland's fooled okay i marvel at it every day every day when i pour it i go god

00:43:35.740 damn life is sweet wait i have a huge question i just want to cover on north north south east west

00:43:40.680 okay yeah so right now i i know that you've internalized east side west side etc of la 0.98

00:43:45.820 because of the you know ideas surrounding those things okay but here's a big question right now

00:43:51.860 okay without thinking point to where i'm not trying to have you get the right answer okay

00:43:55.260 when i say oh you're i'm going to fly to new york today okay point point near where new york is

00:43:59.820 don't try to get it right oh it's this way i think it's this way i really that's what i'm asking

00:44:04.000 there's an intuitive way in which you so i experienced in the context of my current home

00:44:08.280 out that window that's that's new york okay i just believe that's new york and that's east now

00:44:12.660 i don't know if that's east let me take a minute to think about it and see if i'm right on this one

00:44:15.480 if i ever orient it because i actually think los angeles's proximity to the ocean and my sense of

00:44:22.120 which direction the ocean is i'm finally maybe right yeah it really helps you know there's a

00:44:27.180 real sense of oceans there and we're pretty close to it rest of the country's that way yeah so i

00:44:32.520 actually feel but but in life in general like if i go to my parents house in my mind on the east

00:44:37.740 coast yeah if i'm sitting in my childhood bedroom which way do i think of california as from there

00:44:44.380 i know which way it is it's like through the woods essentially and like i don't even want to

00:44:49.020 try to do it right now but i'm pretty sure it's not that i think i'm actually the mental experience

00:44:52.800 of or like in the suburbs of like which way is manhattan bless you god i really inherited my

00:44:58.860 father's sneeze it's awful i always think you know it's interesting if you can recognize someone

00:45:04.160 by their sneeze not by its unique characteristics but by the vocal tonality that comes through if

00:45:08.860 there's a actual sonorous thing happening if it's not um what's it called voiced versus unvoiced

00:45:14.100 but it's you can hear the but anyway i want to figure it out now are you capable of figuring out

00:45:22.680 what north south east is west is via your phone okay for real oh you want actual like you want

00:45:28.720 to get apple involved i want to know if your feeling matches your you're right i think it's

00:45:32.820 time to bring an apple wait fly into new york today say it in your head feel it point point

00:45:38.820 to new york it's this way right in your heart it's this way i was actually also gonna say 1.00

00:45:43.380 i drove by your house the other day without you knowing fucking just to reveal asshole 0.99

00:45:48.480 you didn't you didn't do anything well no but i well i really i suddenly found myself on your 1.00

00:45:54.580 Street. And I was like, and there's something about driving by. You literally knew that you

00:45:58.800 were the exact one. I mean, I don't want to give anything away, but no, I drove by. I know I was

00:46:03.200 on your block. Oh, my God. Did you used to drive by the homes of ex lovers? No, but I did once.

00:46:12.340 I did once. The homes of crushes in adolescence was was a really interesting question. And we'll

00:46:18.660 get to that. Oh, yes. Well, this is late adolescence, I would argue, because I was 18,

00:46:22.420 19 right yeah and i drove so was it a parent's home at that time like they weren't they didn't

00:46:27.120 have their own home yes exactly that's what's so interesting and i drove by his house and was like

00:46:33.600 my heart was pounding later or like and you're 18 and it was a lover of 17 that kind of thing no i

00:46:39.220 was still 18 it was like it was like we had like and it wasn't even like a bad breakup or anything

00:46:43.200 but it was like you know we had a thing and then i you know went to school and then i was like home

00:46:48.160 for christmas break like back from new york and so i was driving around you know listening to music

00:46:52.880 and i was like and then i drove by his house and i was like what are you doing what are you doing

00:46:59.220 because i had to kind of turn down like a main thoroughfare no so i i remember turning down

00:47:05.000 driving by the house heart racing and then i would say 20 minutes later i get a text from him 0.94

00:47:10.540 okay what did it say the hills have eyes kate berlant wait are you fucking joking and the hills 0.72

00:47:16.280 have eyes is no not in the hills of that movie had like he saw you he's somehow he saw me the 0.95

00:47:22.400 hills have eyes caperland we may have banged i think maybe that it worked and we banged that

00:47:27.380 break i can't fully remember but i'm standing in his own bushes peering out of the street i was

00:47:32.840 like was he standing outside his bedroom window it was very because i remember driving by and

00:47:36.520 being like there's no way because his car wasn't there or something i don't remember the details

00:47:39.520 i have to say i like this person okay okay that's oh yeah he's great he's a doll to say

00:47:47.120 the hills have no drama there he was a doll yeah yeah oh my god that's so he was gorgeous too so

00:47:52.640 funny gorgeous have eyes kate berlant comma kate berlant yeah wow i love that and he was an apple

00:48:00.040 genius at this point wait oh he works at the genius bar is that how you met him no performatively

00:48:07.760 like doing your you're like i don't know how it works act no but i do but it is great to have

00:48:13.440 someone who knows how leaning across the blonde wood of an apple desk sorry my ipad seems to be

00:48:19.460 locked when's apple i've taught a thing or two to a genius to their shame and delight oddly really

00:48:25.740 yeah i taught them command tab try it right now you've probably never done it don't worry nothing

00:48:30.960 bad will happen what command tab wait what happened and then are you ready for the next one

00:48:35.620 it all went away and then command command do just make it go no it moves you through um the

00:48:40.460 different applications you can switch to another app without using it and then command shift tab

00:48:44.700 moves you in reverse okay through the apps okay it's huge and yeah they didn't know and um they

00:48:50.760 were stunned and i also famously use hot corners it's not celebrated in my home i love hot corners

00:48:56.540 chris tries to come over here and use my computer who wouldn't like hot corners he doesn't have the

00:49:00.960 mouse speed i like to i crank the speed on my on my mouse okay would you ever switch hot corners

00:49:06.640 to different areas just to kind of like neurologically switch it up it's called muscle

00:49:09.980 confusion and absolutely muscle no i don't really switch them out to be honest um lower left would

00:49:16.140 throw me well they do different things and and whatever but but wait wait wait i really wanted

00:49:21.500 to cover whatever we were just on i was very pumped about oh how's me driving by an ex-lover's

00:49:26.140 home yes but then there was something i was shouting um just now before hot corners hot

00:49:31.240 corners genius bar blonde wood got it okay okay so i dare the apple store oh here we go to okay

00:49:38.840 they'd never they would never have the courage to switch to dark wood oh wow because they see it as

00:49:44.180 so obviously old-fashioned okay they see and look and generally i resent the dark wood of senate

00:49:50.800 okay i'm humiliated by maybe a senate by american governmental style the fact that it's like it's

00:49:57.720 time to switch to cherry dark cherry wood it's time to switch government needs to switch to

00:50:02.920 mid-century modern now okay no no i know you're asleep at the wheel okay i believe me i know okay

00:50:08.780 but mid-century modern will last kate and so it's a better choice for our government okay than the

00:50:12.800 no i think it's too scary if the government were to slide into like fashion like that it would be 0.58

00:50:17.420 i think really disturbing not fashion it's from the goddamn 40s so it's fine okay no i think 0.96

00:50:22.040 government building should be intentionally ugly ugly sure okay and i agree i don't actually think 0.95

00:50:28.100 they should go mid-century modern but what i want to say is i just would love to just dare apple

00:50:32.860 to turn their stores to dark cherry white walls dark cherry wood no i i think a deep eggplant

00:50:39.520 deep eggplant i have said this in a few places so they'll never get rid of the white walls well

00:50:44.600 I mean their computers aren't white 0.99

00:50:46.200 They're fucking space gray and silver 0.98

00:50:47.840 And by the way that's another thing I want to talk about 0.99

00:50:49.300 I'm so god damn tired

00:50:51.060 Of space gray and silver

00:50:52.640 And don't tell me that rose gold is an improvement

00:50:55.860 The rose gold laptop of Apple

00:50:58.480 I have something to say

00:50:59.500 The rose gold of Apple

00:51:01.620 It's just so clearly like it's still the silver metal

00:51:04.660 It's not true color

00:51:06.020 It's still silvery metal with a pink cast

00:51:08.480 The flavor is still the silver

00:51:10.640 Bring us back

00:51:11.800 Remember when they had black and white laptops

00:51:14.560 it ruled wow actually you know what like carries was black that is wrong i hate space gray i i

00:51:21.660 mean space gray i prefer to silver my iphone is red i have a seven i just bought a new phone

00:51:27.600 because my phone's officially dead but i is your phone yellow it's a case it's yellow that's not a

00:51:31.980 case that's an actual phone yes now this is the one area where they got it right now i'm embarrassed

00:51:36.820 i just got a new phone because i had to i don't know why i keep saying that like that like no one

00:51:41.060 cares yeah yeah you you felt the need to be clear that it had fully died i just don't want someone

00:51:46.680 thinking i'm like i need 5g baby like you know like i just didn't like it was just that my phone

00:51:51.800 truly doesn't work anymore and so you can get a new phone even when it does work you just it's

00:51:57.480 fine thank you this is not i mean i can't believe your phone is yellow i'm really jealous thank you

00:52:02.520 and and i got a blue and clear case so that i could enjoy the yellow those are look who's

00:52:07.640 talking colors those are what i don't know if this means anything to you say it again talking

00:52:11.120 is a movie that i watched every four hours for eight years okay look who's talking of course

00:52:15.540 means something to me and i just want to say i thought you were saying le talking i thought

00:52:21.580 you were saying you were talking about fashion brand like i thought you were like that those

00:52:24.860 are like you know like gucci's colors and i'm like oh sorry what and you're like le gusson's

00:52:28.500 colors no no what i said what i said had no anchor in reality it makes sense you wouldn't have known

00:52:33.340 no no but these are child i was gonna say these are child toy colors which i thought was pretty

00:52:37.520 exciting exactly and then I I attached a wallet of my own design you know I've got a great system

00:52:44.140 going here and I'm really proud of it it's held strong for some time um well I'm getting my new

00:52:49.740 phone on Sunday so finally I can copy paste the listeners my phone does not allow me to copy paste

00:52:55.440 and it's been a real issue so what do you mean I highlight the text I highlight anything I say

00:53:02.600 copy it will not paste you mean you rest your uh you rest your finger there it will not pay did

00:53:10.060 you bring it to any geniuses no i mean that's the least of my problems because actually i will say

00:53:14.720 this you know what i would like what let's go back to practical effects people over cgi similarly

00:53:20.180 here wouldn't it be nice to just get three hard ass uh haptic feedback hard buttons on the side 0.85

00:53:26.360 of a goddamn iphone that were a guaranteed cut and paste action okay because i got news for you 0.95

00:53:32.140 resting a finger gently and waiting the exact right time for it to realize that it's like and 0.99

00:53:37.480 lifting your finger and to get it to cue it to say paste it's not an instrument you know it's

00:53:42.200 practically uh in the ether it's i think they want that they want it to feel like you're conjuring

00:53:46.940 like i think they want there to be some mystical property to interacting with an iphone no i know

00:53:51.200 and i i i they continually try to move us towards you know what they call whatever steve jobs whole

00:53:57.200 zen thing with apple and it's it's false you know because what steve jobs it's all about like simple

00:54:02.880 elegant solutions but they're actually like oh yeah actually limitations that are like

00:54:07.120 arbitrary like you know like the fact i mean i think we've even covered this on pook astonishingly

00:54:11.940 but the fact that they're so goddamn slippery the fact that a case is required intentionally

00:54:16.800 slippery the art object have you ever like fooled around with an uncased iphone i i i'm actually 0.91

00:54:23.920 concerned i think we have talked about this on poop because i absolutely do okay i think i've

00:54:28.100 told you live free die hard such a risk my policy of live free die hard so i have a case for the

00:54:32.880 purpose of the wallet and only i had a lucy for a while and no you have to you have to be free 0.65

00:54:38.520 it's a sex toy essentially it really feels so taboo to have an uncased iphone and i have nothing

00:54:46.180 interesting to say wait but i want to finish up a couple things okay we got to wrap up here yeah

00:54:50.220 yeah the ocean um mirror work from two episodes ago there was something i wanted to say uh i've

00:54:55.720 got all my notes here saltines um mirror north south possession i too lifted a great i want to

00:55:04.700 say i too lifted a great yeah that's a joke i already said it we got i know that was a joke

00:55:09.600 full circle i'd say it was full circle but full circles are actually not an archetype i'm interested

00:55:14.720 in working with um the ouroboros the snake eating its own tail you're not into the ouroboros key to

00:55:19.020 that symbol no i am but here's the key sometimes you see this oroboros with the tail stuck

00:55:23.540 completely in its mouth sometimes you see a space between the tail and the mouth that is not merely

00:55:28.640 an aesthetic choice okay some believe that when the tail is stuffed in the mouth that's a closed

00:55:33.680 system and therefore not good a closed system of of um what's the space dogma what is the space

00:55:42.080 there should always be a space in anything or it's a false idol okay a little space to to it's

00:55:47.560 almost like if you can't just prove something then it's not provable yeah we all yearn to stuff

00:55:51.840 the tail in the mouth but actually there needs to be a space wow i want to go deeper that's a whole

00:55:57.420 ep on an oroboros episode we can explore that in a further archetype oroboros ep could be huge for

00:56:02.980 this is really going deep for me really i've never heard about this the space i know no one's heard

00:56:08.100 about it i'm the only one because i read it in a book okay and i can't wait to tell you about the

00:56:13.040 book. We have to wrap up, which is really painful. But let the space between right now and the next

00:56:18.120 episode be the space between the tail and the mouth. Beautiful. That was Pug. If you enjoyed

00:56:26.300 Pug, please subscribe, rate, and review. If not, we will press charges.

00:56:43.040 Disappeared from a commune.

00:56:44.400 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

00:56:48.220 No, I am not your guru.

00:56:51.860 Back then, I lied to everybody.

00:56:54.180 They have had this case for 30 years.

00:56:57.120 I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.

00:57:00.880 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app,

00:57:03.240 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:57:06.660 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:57:09.540 Guaranteed human.

00:57:13.040 You

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - February 16, 2021

Milk Frothers

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