Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Motherhood

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00:00:34.900 Hi, I'm Kate Berlant.

00:00:36.460 I'm Jacqueline Novak.

00:00:37.560 And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends,

00:00:42.280 two untamable intellects.

00:00:44.080 This is our hobby. 0.95

00:00:44.900 This is our hell.

00:00:45.760 This is our naked desire for free products.

00:00:48.040 This is POOG.

00:00:49.460 Today's topic, loosely speaking, open gates, the rosary, phantom twin.

00:00:54.600 so some technical difficulties this week have actually led to something i've been hoping would

00:01:02.320 happen for some time which is digging into the vaults what are the vaults vaults are early

00:01:07.900 recordings where there was a uh who an energy that one can never retrieve once one is enjoying

00:01:16.580 the fruits of a successful podcast once one's enjoying an audience loving it etc etc this is us

00:01:23.000 you know truly speaking talking to each other into the into the abyss and i've been begging

00:01:27.660 i've been begging i've been i've been telling our producer to find find the motherhood conversation

00:01:32.220 there was a motherhood conversation and i think there's some really good stuff in there so um

00:01:36.780 so yeah this is a vault episode i have nothing to add i wanted to give a very due shout out to

00:01:42.980 the brilliant book motherhood by sheila hetty uh which was a seminal text for me not to use

00:01:47.720 seminal in reference to a book about motherhood written by a woman but um an i versus an e i

00:01:54.080 believe should keep us safe wow and i've been rendered a fool live but uh yes pick up the book

00:02:02.260 listen to the app yeah and we're just going to drop you in to the sweet spot i think i mean i

00:02:07.000 mean right why not right just i mean i think you guys can handle sort of i mean if this were

00:02:13.040 terrestrial radios we always call it whatever it happens all the time you turn it on and it's

00:02:17.000 you know middle of a convo yeah um and i frankly resent when they try to ground you and where you

00:02:23.700 were so in you go people enjoy yourselves this is the motherhood episode

00:02:29.080 well how do you picture do you have a vision of your in your head of what

00:02:35.600 like when i go into the abstract place of like you know what it what it means in the future to

00:02:41.960 become a woman that doesn't have children, you know, like, will I regret it when I'm 70, whatever?

00:02:48.300 Yeah. Yeah. And I, for whatever reason, always picture the scene unfolding in what was my 0.83

00:02:55.220 grandmother's apartment post-divorce from my grandfather in Manhattan. It was this glorious,

00:03:01.960 glorious apartment with this kind of ornate and 60s, but it was just, it was unbelievable.

00:03:07.240 and I always picture myself in there alone and like I'm both happy to be alone but my only fear

00:03:15.980 in life is that by virtue of ADD like I don't notice years passing and so I miss out on things

00:03:22.020 due to that right but I'm kind of like I cannot I just I resent the concept of the body's clock

00:03:29.000 okay of course and the running out of eggs and whatever i i deeply resent that and i like refuse

00:03:36.920 to be in the prison of my own body's age like to me it's like excuse me you know like totally no

00:03:43.800 like maybe i'm just i am a like archetypal male cowboy and that's who i am i hear you like if

00:03:51.440 you want me to have kids you're gonna have to trap me into it just like a cowboy i completely relate

00:03:56.700 to that like get knocked up by me and then like pressure me into like swinging through between

00:04:03.440 cowboy adventures yeah and i swing between the visions i have of myself as we all do and one

00:04:10.340 of them is that kind of the the loner or you know like the lone wolf like creating my own path like

00:04:16.020 all of that but then i do deep inside of me have a hyper kind of normie urge for christmas

00:04:22.760 and like that stuff and like meaning picturing a Christmas with a family children are cool like 0.92

00:04:30.740 sometimes you you're around a kid and you're like god damn this kids like I can see in which it is

00:04:36.420 really interesting to raise children and I can see in the ways in which it is it can be creative 0.84

00:04:41.800 or it can be about creativity and discipline and it is a way to structure your life it is a way to

00:04:47.080 impose time on your life in a way that I understand how people do it. It is cool to be like, my kids

00:04:53.340 one this year, my kid turned two. And then, you know, it's like your life then becomes organized

00:04:58.140 according to your child's life. And that is profound. And I think profoundly helpful. But

00:05:02.840 what's funny is that at the risk of sounding completely arrogant, I like my life. Yes.

00:05:07.400 Right. So I'm kind of like, I think, sorry, I think a lot of people have children because that's

00:05:13.500 when they think their life begins or starts, right? Like, okay, I'm waiting to have, get

00:05:18.380 married and have kids. And then the real meaning comes into play and I can finally begin. I've

00:05:23.520 already started. I don't, the thought of never having kids doesn't make me drop to my knees

00:05:28.700 and like weep. No, it's, it fills me with a certain kind of curiosity of like, huh. But

00:05:33.820 part of me is like, if I'm enjoying my life and this could all change, I could absolutely in like

00:05:38.420 three years or five years be like, Oh, just kidding. I'm desperate to have kids. But yeah,

00:05:42.260 right now hell no and that's why i almost it's like almost wanting the trap that's what's so

00:05:47.520 kind of devastating is being like right like i still kind of i'm like like last night truly 0.99

00:05:50.960 woke up in the middle of the night and i was like just do it fuck it just get knocked up and then 0.99

00:05:54.900 in three years you'll have a three-year-old you will have done it out with it but it's really 0.99

00:05:58.260 wrapped up and then sheila hetty also talks about this sometimes when you're a woman being a mother

00:06:02.460 is about being a good daughter you're a good daughter through becoming a mother and that's

00:06:06.480 a really dark i remember my mother i got so like mad because this isn't like how my mother speaks

00:06:11.640 but she on this one occasion like it's almost like she gave herself the permission to speak

00:06:18.320 in a voice that isn't even her own in order to express the following sentiment which she knew

00:06:22.900 wouldn't be cool if she expressed it like in her own kind of language you know so like she was like

00:06:28.000 she was like when are you gonna give me a bunch of grandbabies or something totally not what her

00:06:33.020 voice sounds like like yes like you're gonna give me lots and lots of grandbabies like and I was so 0.92

00:06:37.700 irritated and she knew I would be yes that's why she went into the voice you know totally the joke

00:06:42.520 voice to cover the thing but I was like ew like I'm not here to serve your desire for grandchildren

00:06:49.560 like I don't know it's just like I mean that's that's it and she has otherwise put no pressure

00:06:54.740 on me I mean you know that has not come through I've had thoughts like literally like I know they

00:06:59.740 got pleasure from coming to see my show in New York right oh profound I know they got a lot of

00:07:04.100 pleasure if you were my daughter like if you like i want to have kids so that you can be my daughter

00:07:08.880 it's hilarious i feel that way but my friends like john like if john are my son like hell yeah

00:07:14.480 oh my god like i do like and yet kate no guarantees i mean well that's what's so scary

00:07:20.960 you could get a total dud beyond the dud you could get a dud is hilarious dud is a hilarious

00:07:28.160 term for a human being and i haven't seen the formal literature can you guarantee against

00:07:32.100 getting a dud if you yourself if you do all the right stuff can you still end up with a just

00:07:36.060 dial tone you mean like vitamins like prenatal vitamins or do you mean like no no i'm raising

00:07:42.080 raising like we read to them right when they were born and they were always at the dinner table

00:07:46.500 absorbing the fascinating conversations baby guarantees it's terrifying guarantees okay

00:07:51.520 and in fact like efforts to raise a kid like they are a piece of clay exactly is its own profound

00:07:58.780 stoned damage so that's the other thing nurturing the child okay in all these ways right and the

00:08:05.420 interesting conversation and i want them to be around different kinds of and and what you know

00:08:09.640 i mean heinous every version of it that you try to imagine and that's why people experience like

00:08:14.920 they sometimes experience like the reverse trauma that their parent endured because the parent is

00:08:19.560 trying to it's almost like um if your parents parents were on drugs or something like that

00:08:25.960 and there was no stability right then they when they raise you want to give you what they didn't

00:08:31.200 have so they do hyper stability and it's oppressive you know what i'm saying so like

00:08:37.680 your attempt to offset what your own parent did to correct for it's it's like me like i always

00:08:43.620 almost wished my parents because i'm so like self-flagellating around i i was always like

00:08:49.060 why didn't they push me harder like why didn't they like beat me for getting a a minus into

00:08:53.600 getting an a like or an a plus like i was like furious yeah and i always joke about this but

00:08:58.060 that i had like siphon parental pressure like off of like my friends you know what i mean parents

00:09:03.080 who were like like i'd like go over there and let it like infuse me um i also raise my parents who

00:09:09.760 were like try your best like they were like try your best like they were like you're so special

00:09:13.920 i mean you're an only child i'm a third child like but at the same time they didn't overly

00:09:18.860 so special me and there are a few examples like are you ready like where it was like damaging

00:09:23.080 like the teacher told my mother that i was something something she's brilliant or something

00:09:29.520 okay let's just say third third grade okay and i was profoundly insecure i'll just give you the

00:09:35.240 real story because i'll just give you the real story i was like trying to cover it up to protect

00:09:38.980 the identity of someone in my class okay no but but i'll i'll give it to you now because i think

00:09:43.360 i can protect their identity without so basically it was like i thought this other kid was smarter

00:09:49.040 than me and better than me and like there was an active like competition happening and i always

00:09:53.780 felt like shit about myself because i would make a mistake on these little like math sheets where

00:09:57.780 you plot on a graph the answer to the math problems and then you get a picture once all 0.97

00:10:01.980 the points are plotted do you remember that kind of thing anyway so it was like so the teacher told

00:10:08.260 my mother that there was this rivalry going right and she made a comment which is kind of 0.99

00:10:12.900 inappropriate but she made a comment to my mother like well jackie's actually much smarter than

00:10:18.400 you know which is sort of gross for a teacher to say to a parent like to totally gross and my 0.98

00:10:24.120 mother didn't tell me because like essentially like didn't want me to get a big head or didn't

00:10:28.960 want to be like you know like and I kind of get why she didn't tell me like telling that that the

00:10:33.560 teacher said that you know I'm smart and some other students messed up that was correct but

00:10:38.100 I had profound like I had a serious self-esteem problem like I remember like crying over these

00:10:44.360 worksheets because like I'm not getting the picture the unicorn is supposed to like appear

00:10:47.920 from the plotted points that are the answers and it's like i made one error down here and that leads 0.59

00:10:51.500 to like it all getting fucked up from there on and i'm just like i remember like erasing and like 0.61

00:10:55.820 literally erasing where you know the the paper is worn away and it's like the frustration and just 0.88

00:11:00.460 feeling like i was like dumb and um anyway i always wish what could i have been if they put

00:11:06.700 more pressure on me slash i'm furious that i was not in this program called open gates which some

00:11:14.440 of my friends were like plucked for in the school where like one hour a week during lunch they would

00:11:19.620 go in and do like harder brain teasers because you know the whole thing of like well you have

00:11:23.880 to challenge the smart ones or they'll get bored and act out right and i remember distinctly not

00:11:28.780 being in open gates okay and and that harmed me more than i believe the brain teasers enhanced

00:11:35.800 the life of those who were picked for it wow i'm still wounded you're still wounded anyway pull me

00:11:41.440 back because there was a reason I got to that oh yeah pressure from the parents right right right

00:11:45.660 so then like I because I feel that hole of not having been pressured to my full potential

00:11:50.740 there's a thing in me that it would be hard to not like push my kid a little I'd be like well

00:11:57.420 you know you would over correct opportunities will open up for you if you can push that grade

00:12:02.500 up and I believe you can like what I do I don't know it's interesting to think about that what

00:12:06.920 would you kind of overcompensate for that you didn't have in your own childhood I was kind of

00:12:11.300 raised I'm an only child and again I was raised my you know my mom had me later my dad was like 46

00:12:17.400 my mom was 43 or something no kids around really all my parents friends none of them had kids like

00:12:22.340 except for one couple so I was they were exclusively around adults yeah artists and I was kind of raised

00:12:27.500 a bit yeah my mom recently described it as like kind of feral like a little bit wild like I really

00:12:32.400 didn't have right I didn't act out but I kind of didn't have discipline right per se you didn't

00:12:37.980 have to act out because you were allowed to be like the feral do you think it's because they're

00:12:42.420 artists like and they're part of like an avant-garde community that they were certainly

00:12:46.540 not going to like be like sats yeah exactly you know i think that's true and like my yeah my dad's

00:12:52.720 an artist who is like violently dyslexic as a kid could never do like a lot of like the normal like

00:12:59.280 signs of yeah normative intelligence like you couldn't do that yes and i also was sort of like

00:13:04.820 that I did well in school but yeah like physically incapable of doing math and stuff and of course

00:13:09.220 ADD and all of that but I mean that's the story that always comes up that I feel like is kind of

00:13:13.720 the story of like okay so that's how I was raised was like my fourth birthday party or something

00:13:19.080 at my house me being completely naked and there's home video like everyone else is dressed in their

00:13:24.520 clothes and I'm just completely naked in a top hat oh my god wait is that it's probably not but

00:13:30.380 you know that like classic photo of you curly haired photo of you I mean you always have curly

00:13:34.060 yeah but there's like a naked ish photo of you really young that's the birthday i'm my mom's

00:13:38.900 that's literally it and i'm yeah and i top hat naked and by the way you might think there's kind

00:13:44.280 of a cartoon what who were these kids is what i want to know after like were they artists your

00:13:49.360 parents da da friends the only there was only one child in that world my parents friends they had

00:13:56.440 one friend that had kids everyone else did not have kids also feral semi-feral yeah but what's

00:14:02.220 also because i feel like the story is painting my parents i'm from la right california artists yes

00:14:07.340 my parents also aren't really like that they're not like right they are like hippies in the sense

00:14:12.740 that they both attended the summer of love right but like they aren't like they're not woo-woo

00:14:17.960 people they're not like like yeah but i have to question that story of like okay so i was naked

00:14:22.960 and my it was never like what do the other parents think like what do the other kids think

00:14:27.680 and then i actually i mean that could be a huge memory for them probably and i did have a lot of 0.61

00:14:32.400 nudity like i used to show my vagina at school and stuff like so i definitely was into like 0.76

00:14:37.600 getting attention but i think when you're that little it's like that's what like performance 0.99

00:14:41.080 is like telling a joke is showing your vagina it's the same thing right right right i went with 0.96

00:14:45.740 little mermaid you know renditions but nonetheless i mean performance performance i mean i dance to 0.96

00:14:50.920 madonna i there's also a video of yeah my whole birthday party captive and i'm dancing no so just

00:14:57.520 madonna that's pretty interesting wait but i interrupted you before and i wanted to get to it

00:15:01.520 because it was saying like uh the top hat and it seems this one way but actually oh it just seems

00:15:06.960 like that's overly like i was raised with like oh there certainly were rules or ways creating a

00:15:12.080 picture to be yeah like i didn't did you ever get in trouble uh with my parents grounded grounded

00:15:19.040 so to speak i got in trouble a couple times for sure and i have memories of like i was always

00:15:22.980 kind of scared of my dad because my dad was just like big and had like a deep voice and like I was

00:15:30.360 much more raised my mom was like my my caretaker my dad was physically there but he was you know

00:15:36.100 workaholic like in the studio like I saw him at dinner but I wasn't he wasn't my caretaker

00:15:42.020 saw him at dinner but didn't you call him mama yeah so famously my my mom went like to Paris

00:15:49.460 see this is like okay cool so my mom went to paris for like a week with her best friend when

00:15:52.840 i was little yeah and then i started calling my dad mommy because he was doing so cute the mom

00:15:56.980 stuff and then that kind of stuck and sometimes i'd be like annoyed in high school and be like

00:16:00.720 mom to my dad yes even really fascinating now i've many times slipped and called my boyfriend mom

00:16:08.080 which i think is like the other sign of love but also like has the intimacy gone too far

00:16:14.640 but my dad he's a very gentle sweet person but you know never really wanted kids and

00:16:21.760 certain kind of more normative like parental duties or ways of being with kids just didn't

00:16:27.500 really come natural to him he and I became close when I turned like 17 and started being into

00:16:31.480 comedy then we could like connect on that because he was obsessed with art and was like we each had

00:16:35.240 like a thing but oh but discipline like I do have but so I was always a little bit scared of my dad

00:16:40.340 just because he was so big and like a mystery to me and I do have memories of him like I have one

00:16:45.740 memory of him screaming that he was going to throw my rollerblades over the backyard wall because I

00:16:52.500 had like left them out in the way because I used to rollerblade in the house oh and you left them

00:16:56.180 which are a danger yeah like kids aren't supposed to like I rollerbladed in the house oh my god

00:17:00.840 there were things like that that I definitely did but then I never acted out like in high school

00:17:05.280 I never it's almost I mean like at the time I remember almost being embarrassed like I never

00:17:09.560 hated my mom like I never got in like big fights with my mom I was always like yeah love you like

00:17:14.580 I like was very close with them yeah yeah in fact I almost think I'm having more of an adolescence

00:17:20.440 now kind of as an adult because I never finally breaking the cord finally kind of breaking the

00:17:26.060 cord a little bit because I never had that urge because I also felt like I was able to kind of

00:17:31.460 like I felt their presence but it wasn't overly domineering I didn't feel like I had to right

00:17:35.720 like fulfill their expectations of me exactly no i think you want to have a um the lease should be

00:17:40.800 loose so to speak i mean with the kid because if it's too tight there they go i mean they go off

00:17:47.120 to college and it's immediate i mean i just remember like in college like seeing profound

00:17:52.120 binge drinking and like whatever like you know what i mean like like in response to the strict

00:17:58.460 i mean it was always like such an embarrassment because it was like it was always the you know

00:18:02.300 the ones who were with the strict parents that were just like face down in the puddle of gin 0.95

00:18:07.100 or whatever as you say okay with their like ass in the air with a beer bottle in it or whatever 0.87

00:18:12.940 it was like yeah them and it's like they they so ill prepared them and in that way and it just 0.94

00:18:20.740 it's um no it's really there is like a certain casual where i'm brittle and that's what makes

00:18:25.180 me kind of like i'd be cool to have a kid like you could sort of again you don't know who you get

00:18:28.680 my ultimate narcissism my deep prayer that my child is me that i just repeat like that's like

00:18:34.500 the darkest thing that like shall not be uttered but like the deep narcissism that i'm like if i

00:18:39.860 could press a button and just have myself i would oh god that's bad that's unsavory that's but

00:18:45.120 because also so good the lack of rebellion because of like i would also press a button and have you

00:18:49.860 there's two children you're willing to have john two i guess three is in there but there's very

00:18:55.840 few but like that's what about your parents them as children would you take either of them yeah i

00:19:01.500 would definitely take my mom and my dad too because my parents both were really scared of having a boy

00:19:07.140 because they were like who's gonna do boy things with him because my my dad is like oh very not

00:19:12.960 into like he's not they were worried they wouldn't be able to normalize him into they were terrified

00:19:18.140 of having a boy both of them that's so funny and then here i am surprised in a way that they

00:19:23.740 wouldn't be excited to raise like raise a boy without the like you know forcing sports on him

00:19:28.920 or whatever like the crushing masculinity that would have just never been imposed but then maybe

00:19:33.400 to react against that their son would have been like a terrifying man because it would have been 0.99

00:19:38.620 like my dad's a pussy like being yeah yeah he would have like run towards those things like 0.99

00:19:44.720 he'd long for them i mean that's like the comedy of um family ties anyway son alex p keaton the 0.99

00:19:50.520 comedy of his role was that he was like a young conservative you know what i mean like in reaction

00:19:55.880 to the parents totally well here's one thing that i see myself as being reactive slightly which is

00:20:01.560 like gentle i was raised with so few rules and kind of zero familial obligation like i didn't

00:20:08.100 i wasn't raised around family yes my mom my dad's family like literally never like heard a single

00:20:12.600 word of them my mom's family i was very close with had cousins but they lived far away and then my

00:20:17.580 grandparents were like not in my life so it was like wasn't like oh sunday night we always go to

00:20:21.800 grandma's or we have to go to uncle whatever's and see that like there was none of that so that

00:20:26.520 became very totally to me the idea of like enforced social gatherings or like obligation to

00:20:31.740 family and right now i have obligation to family because i am close with my cousins but and i do

00:20:37.020 actually appreciate like my dad is kind of on the far end of that of like he feels absolute zero

00:20:43.020 familial obligation or there's this kind of thought of like right what you don't need to spend time

00:20:46.820 with people that you're not that you don't feel emotionally but connected to or intellectually

00:20:50.120 connected to like just because they're in your family doesn't mean independent model which is

00:20:53.940 really cool but also there's like kind of slip into some like not great territory but yeah i

00:21:01.400 because i think the only child thing recognizing my parents were like not normal or something i

00:21:07.580 fetishize these kind of normative things of like familial obligations or i was obsessed with like

00:21:11.800 the ford explorer like the suv because my parents never had that so it was like this idea of like

00:21:16.320 my best friend's dad was a doctor and they had a Ford Explorer. And I was like, Oh my God. Like

00:21:21.640 that was so just exotic to me. And this idea of like the dad who had a real job. Cause my dad

00:21:27.100 worked at home. He was an art, you know, worked in like the studio. Classic. What does your dad

00:21:31.880 do question in like kindergarten? Right. And you said he taps, right? Yeah. My dad makes art with

00:21:37.480 a hammer and nails. And they asked, what does your daddy do? And I said, he taps like tapping

00:21:42.040 because it was like dad's tapping like that's what it was i was like market research yeah

00:21:47.900 and i remember like a rude about my dad and i remember like a like a rude um a rude like first 0.99

00:21:54.680 grade teacher or something being like being like and what does that mean you know it's like fuck 0.96

00:21:58.600 you you know i don't know oh my god so mean but oh so just in closing i'll say i have an urge for 0.97

00:22:05.980 ritual yes and things because i didn't really have it as a kid like for example when i was a child

00:22:11.300 I was determined to find God and religion because there's no religion whatsoever in my household.

00:22:15.560 And so I went to Hebrew school, but then I dropped out to do the school plays.

00:22:18.660 But then I was like really into like, I went to Christian camp because I was like, I want God.

00:22:23.260 I was like, I want some like order or structure or rules.

00:22:26.400 When did you go to Christian camp?

00:22:27.780 Wait, didn't I?

00:22:28.400 I mean, I went as a camper and then I was a counselor at a Christian camp when I was like 15.

00:22:33.120 Are both parents Jews? 0.75

00:22:34.560 Okay. 0.89

00:22:34.820 So how much time do you have?

00:22:35.820 So my dad, yes. 1.00

00:22:36.960 My dad's like Brooklyn Jew. 0.96

00:22:38.900 45 episodes is what we got. 0.97

00:22:40.740 Yeah, exactly. 0.86

00:22:41.300 so my dad's a like full-blown jew and it's like the family line is like boom israel like it's

00:22:47.960 very it's all there yes my mom is was raised by spanish immigrants and my name is mendez berlant

00:22:55.100 and mendez is like a very jewish name in spain it's like having the name cohen and my grandfather

00:23:00.600 was a diamond dealer in like the jewish like ghetto in spain before they moved and there

00:23:05.520 are all these signs that they were jews including my grandmother got at her deathbed proclaiming

00:23:10.920 if they were jews and apparently a photograph revealing it yeah we're talking about it and

00:23:15.240 apparently there's a photograph of my great-grandfather in cuba wearing a yarmulke and my

00:23:20.800 mom says that when my mom started dating my dad my grandmother was so thrilled that he was jewish

00:23:25.860 and it was like a really big thing for her and it was she was sort of like we don't know why it was

00:23:30.460 just like that was an energy yeah and they just were like they didn't know why yeah but then

00:23:35.420 there's other people in the family who are like we're jews and then there's some people who are

00:23:39.120 just like are we like no we're not but there was no there's no religion in my family whatsoever

00:23:43.840 that's a funny like well you know i i feel like a lot of the familial obligation stuff comes in with

00:23:49.440 with religion i mean i feel like that's one of the main ways that a lot of families get the

00:23:54.340 obligation piece in where it's like well this is just you know this is what we do you know you go

00:23:58.660 to church right it's like okay we gotta go to the communion we gotta go to the whatever and because

00:24:04.580 my parents their marriage because as i've said i feel like somehow i bring it around this in every

00:24:09.740 episode but like conservative rabbi and wife grandparents yes my mom was the only daughter 0.96

00:24:16.220 that married a non-jew yeah and because it was such a shit show it was like my mom you know 0.96

00:24:22.240 really never wanted to put pressure create guilt pressure any of that kind of stuff you know in 1.00

00:24:27.780 her family on her children because it was so it was such a trauma in a way for yeah for her right

00:24:32.780 so we didn't do i mean i knew i was half jewish and we would celebrate jewish holidays like in

00:24:39.380 our home some high holy days you know passover we would go to temple sometimes on get tickets

00:24:46.560 um get tickets you know and go to temple for for for holidays and then we celebrated christmas in

00:24:52.620 a very like non-religious fashion just like christmas is just a thing we do organizing

00:24:56.320 christmas is like thing of the year in my house celebrate coca-cola's christmas you know like

00:25:00.100 santa claus was invented and that's like my grandmother my dad's mom who was like a hardcore

00:25:04.460 jew also celebrated christmas and she was like it's capitalism my grandparents were really like 0.90

00:25:09.440 on the blacklist like they were full jewish like commies like full-blown and she was like why 0.92

00:25:14.780 wouldn't i have christmas it's fun right and there was no attachment to it yeah it's like 0.96

00:25:18.960 the state to preserve jewish identity through not celebrating christmas right so like we didn't go

00:25:22.800 to hebrew school and there were do you have a vomit nope whoa because neither did i nothing 0.88

00:25:28.660 And I believe that. I mean, this is Jesus. I exhaust myself. OK, but like I believe that being othered early leads to the comedian identity or whatever. OK, but I do feel like if you have and everyone has this to a certain extent, but if you have areas where you feel in one world and another world simultaneously that that conflict, like, you know, visiting my grandparents and I don't know the prayers, you know, barely and my cousins do.

00:25:53.980 and it's like we're sitting there and I feel like the heathen child but then over like I've never

00:25:57.660 been to church you know I'm celebrating Christmas and there's this feeling of not being part of it

00:26:01.960 there so it's like and then kids telling me I can't you can't be both you can't be half you

00:26:07.880 can't you can't be both is your mother or your father Jewish right right right the Jewish kids 0.64

00:26:11.420 right your mother is so you're Jewish you know yeah and then like like others like well you can't 0.63

00:26:15.800 be half like you know whatever it was like I think that's one reason that I've always felt

00:26:20.180 no hesitation to kind of read anything and everything spiritually metaphysically whatever

00:26:25.580 yeah and even fetishizing like you say you fetishizing the forward explorer whatever

00:26:31.180 like i've always yearned to like be like running off to confession regularly okay well i learned

00:26:37.020 i've always wanted a cross i learned the rosary when i was like 12 years old and i'm not kidding

00:26:42.140 i felt god like enter my body i had a complete religious experience because i was in a deep

00:26:48.420 meditative state i was i learned the rosary i was repeating it over and over and over again on my 0.93

00:26:52.260 knees and i felt christ enter my goddamn blood and i was like buzzing and it was amazing hey 0.98

00:26:59.640 that's why kids are so susceptible to that stuff did you feel it from above into your head like a 0.98

00:27:04.700 crown yes i mean i i just remember i'm just curious about the sensations yes i would say it's from

00:27:09.360 it was i just remember like my body vibrating and this like feeling of like so yeah something kind

00:27:14.040 of touching my head and going all the way down and repeating it you know our father who art in

00:27:17.960 heaven hallowed be thy name the kingdom come that will be done on earth is that the rosary yeah i

00:27:22.240 mean is that what you say when you're doing the rosary yeah right there's like that one

00:27:25.580 no no me too okay okay and then i was and then i was a camp counselor at christian camp

00:27:43.040 And then they found out I was Jewish.

00:27:46.100 And that was a fun afternoon.

00:27:47.500 None of them knew you were Jewish.

00:27:48.760 Yeah, I was like, well, I'm Jewish.

00:27:50.060 You were like, when the Christ light entered.

00:27:51.920 And a lot of them were like, I've never met you.

00:27:53.280 Wait, I have so much to say with this.

00:27:53.820 Meanwhile, I'm coming from L.A. where it's like, I've never met someone who's not Jewish.

00:27:57.280 Like, and they were like, shocked.

00:27:59.740 Yeah.

00:28:00.020 And so I've always had that.

00:28:02.260 My mom took me to like, hear the Dalai Lama speak, you know, because she was into Buddhism.

00:28:06.660 And like, yes.

00:28:07.260 And so I always had that search for God.

00:28:09.740 Famously meditated once and has been talking about it for 20 years or whatever.

00:28:12.240 Exactly.

00:28:12.600 she meditated once in the 90s and never stops talking about it wait there's so much i want to

00:28:16.820 say one so my dad when he was a little boy his parents were gentiles but not religious so they

00:28:24.220 celebrated christmas that was it cool and he went over to someone's house for dinner you know at a

00:28:29.620 friend's house and they were like greg would you like to say the lord's prayer before the meal

00:28:33.380 okay which by the way is psychotic that's so mean put that on some kid child and my dad was like i

00:28:40.900 don't know it and it was terrible and then he thus taught us literally like if in the case that we

00:28:47.960 found ourselves in that situation and he would do this thing it was like if he were like tucking me

00:28:52.000 in he would do this speed version of the lord lord's prayer by the way i always sort of thought

00:28:57.460 it was like when you learn lyrics when you're like little it was like i thought it was um

00:29:01.600 the kingdom come i will be done okay like the kingdom come i will be done on earth as it is

00:29:09.280 in heaven like i knew that like the grammar was off i knew something was wrong but i basically

00:29:12.600 thought it was saying like your kingdom i will come to when i am done on earth yeah yeah not bad

00:29:18.900 see all of this now i'm like now i want kids again make yourself a cup of tea it's time to

00:29:23.360 settle in and listen to some ads by the way you had a spiritual initiation and we're going to talk

00:29:36.880 about that later okay this vibration okay i've seen it a thousand times in the workshops i attend

00:29:41.140 completely i mean it's a thing i really want to get into i remember it so clearly okay it's huge

00:29:45.420 and then two i want to return to the the dud thing okay the question of dudism okay

00:29:53.820 it's not just dud it's if you just don't it's like i remember my dad said specifically like

00:30:01.200 i remember he once said this man i mean i was a kid or a teenager or something but he's like

00:30:04.960 these parents that think that their kid is just like clay that they get to mold right he's like

00:30:10.360 not only are they wrong but you know it messes them up right and it's just like no you come in

00:30:15.940 with something and exactly and they are their own people that incarnate it's that might have no

00:30:23.160 connection that's the interesting thing and like the way that they might be completely different

00:30:28.280 from you i mean there's there's like spiritual ideas that i happen to enjoy about like you

00:30:33.000 incarnate into like the family you need or whatever, like to teach you, you know, so that

00:30:37.700 you can, you know, whether it's like, oh, like your monstrous father or something like your soul

00:30:42.240 was like, give me a shot, you know, like drop me in there because I need to learn how to stand up

00:30:46.820 for whatever. It's all I love to oversimplify these things. But yeah, you do not know who's

00:30:51.900 going to appear. I love your dad for saying that because it's true. They're not just clay that you

00:30:55.640 mold. And with like clarinet lessons, boom, you're going to get like, yes, this little great kid

00:31:00.440 that you're so excited about like but then that's so fascinating the things that just

00:31:04.760 do make an impression or the ways that obviously we traumatize our children or we're traumatized

00:31:10.760 by our parents yes the things that we inherit what i mean it's you know it's the age-old

00:31:15.040 nature nurture right or it's all of that stuff a little of both it seems but a lot of it's nature

00:31:20.660 where do they arrive did they arrive at something where they like and it's nature kids or they were

00:31:26.240 like it's nurture i feel like the 80s were all about nurture and then the 90s it was like oh wow

00:31:31.160 like nature is really it's there it's nerd well well they had to say like guys the nurturing is

00:31:37.160 off so please note how you destroyed your children okay okay well the classic the classic and boy do

00:31:43.960 i love a identical twin separated at birth that's what i was thinking give it to me a thousand ways

00:31:49.900 and that was it's like they both love pesto but one of them's a murderer yeah yeah and this one 0.98

00:31:57.300 has shit skin as they say um no no identical twins are only opportunity for research like 0.99

00:32:04.980 identical twins hold the answers and my greatest year is having twins because one boy one girl 1.00

00:32:10.280 you wouldn't be able to cheat them equally wait one boy one girl girl twin girl dream no twin

00:32:15.700 girl nightmare because also the eating disorders alone you're going to be up all night having to

00:32:19.500 correct that stuff like that is brutal you're gonna eat up all night just the inevitability

00:32:24.340 of the constant comparison like a bird putting food in their mouth and like with a little

00:32:28.360 syringe squeezing it under the tongue treating two individuals as a unit is so terrifying and

00:32:33.960 that's i think what inevitably happens with twins a lot of the times yes yes oh mama i just no or

00:32:41.300 the set or the way that then the attempts to individual well she's a sweet one and she's the

00:32:45.960 go-getter the need to individualize leads to like the this kind of you know false pigeonholing

00:32:53.660 it's fascinating it's so cool it's also something so amazing about twins and the bond they have and

00:32:58.020 all that it's like to all the twins oh yeah i love that stuff there's anything wrong with you

00:33:01.460 to the twin audience no but you don't think you could do the twin well actually poog is

00:33:07.260 notoriously twin heavy audience yeah a lot of twins 75 75 of our listeners are a twin group

00:33:13.340 not i'm not saying 75 and when i say 75 let's say we had 100 listeners okay and obviously we don't

00:33:20.120 okay but i find it harder to work with big bigger numbers so let's reduce it to 100 right okay now

00:33:25.460 i say 75 are twins okay i don't mean 75 people are part of a twin group okay i mean 75 sets of

00:33:32.240 twins oh and then 25 individuals well i want all the twins my mother famously prayed for twins

00:33:40.480 because she had me so late in life she was like this is my last chance to be pregnant and then

00:33:44.400 of course I had a therapist who was like well you absorbed that you observed because I used to have

00:33:48.520 this feeling of a phantom twin and it was something that I still find myself doing sometimes I count

00:33:52.680 myself as two people like it happens when ordering food I'm like I'm like yeah too like I count

00:33:58.820 myself as two this is huge and I've had that feeling of a twin and I used to I think it's

00:34:04.640 also an only child thing I spent a lot of time alone like playing in my room yes and I kind of

00:34:09.720 had to keep myself company and there was this feeling of another person of like playing like

00:34:13.680 there was like i wasn't alone there was this twin feeling and of course it took my therapist who

00:34:17.940 would no longer see but i wrote a gorgeous thank you letter to and who reached out when he saw me

00:34:21.940 as the box office girl once upon a time in hollywood of course um yeah i had an old therapist

00:34:26.400 appear in the audience of my show last summer she was in like the second row and i found it

00:34:31.100 distracting that's outrageous and she was the one who famously would fall asleep oh she would fall

00:34:36.060 sleep that's insane that's like a question do i entertain you now my friend had a therapist and i 0.55

00:34:40.520 know you want who would go on hikes on the phone what while doing phone therapy the therapist would

00:34:44.720 hike while talking i was like firing immediately and demand half off that's absolutely insane

00:34:49.860 quickly also in the therapist file i've been in therapy since i was like five but i had my great

00:34:55.600 childhood therapist i had caitlin jenner's therapist i was watching a show on e that was

00:34:59.300 like i am kate or whatever when caitlin jenner had that show and i click it on who do i see

00:35:03.980 susan my beloved therapist see this is where you being raised in la you know rears his head it's

00:35:11.180 just like that couldn't have happened for me you know what i mean totally i mean and i was in the

00:35:14.960 suburbs of new york it's not like you know i don't know if this story will be interesting

00:35:17.700 it's just a brief thing that i find kind of profound it will so i was in a pumpkin patch

00:35:21.500 as a kid i was in a pumpkin there you were and i remember i saw jamie lee curtis and i was young

00:35:28.700 okay here we go i was old enough to know it was jamie lee curtis and it was jamie lee curtis and

00:35:32.460 And I remember it very clearly, her going, Coco, Coco,

00:35:35.800 talking to this little girl being like, Coco.

00:35:38.300 It's a visceral memory.

00:35:39.660 Okay.

00:35:40.140 Flash forward to maybe a year ago,

00:35:42.600 I stumbled upon this Instagram account

00:35:44.160 of this girl named Coco, Coco Bakes.

00:35:46.280 Coco Bakes?

00:35:46.540 Who makes the most incredible,

00:35:47.920 sprouted, organic, gluten-free sourdough.

00:35:50.600 It's very expensive.

00:35:51.680 It's so good.

00:35:52.320 Let me guess, filled with maple syrup.

00:35:53.660 I'm following her.

00:35:54.260 I'm buying the bread.

00:35:55.420 Suddenly she starts posting about Jamie Lee Curtis.

00:35:57.780 Not her mother, but a family friend.

00:35:59.760 And I realized that when I was little in the pumpkin patch

00:36:02.220 and I had the strong memory of Jamie the Curtis saying Coco Coco it's Coco it's the bread woman

00:36:08.480 she was hanging out with her family friends why would I have this memory and then I'm eating the

00:36:12.820 bread years later have you reached out no can you believe that this is huge and that's when I'm like

00:36:17.580 what the universe there is meaning there we're tied together synchronicity aka meaningful

00:36:24.400 coincidence meaningful coincidence they're everywhere they're unrelenting question I

00:36:30.080 I love that. That's a wonderful story and no one's ever going to forget it. It's perfection.

00:36:35.640 I would like you to reach out at very least send this clip. This is huge. I think we ask someone

00:36:40.560 who enjoys the bread, the bread. I have to say, and by the way, I am going to reach out and tell

00:36:44.480 her because of the bread. I love the bread is divine. Gluten-free sourdough. Small batch,

00:36:49.360 highly fermented. Wait, you were telling a story before pumpkin twin. Oh, that I absorbed. Oh yeah,

00:36:55.220 the therapists. He told me that I had absorbed my mother pregnant with me thinking twins, twins,

00:36:59.820 twins twins twins you know that entered my consciousness that makes a lot of sense now

00:37:03.860 do you know for sure that there wasn't how dare you no there wasn't a twin i didn't like murder

00:37:08.980 my twin in the womb i do have a prenatal memory wait i really want to hear your memory don't

00:37:13.700 forget it but imagine sorry imagine um someone's giving birth okay maybe it's just twins and they

00:37:21.280 see like a head comes out okay and then like the rest of the body the neck is starting to come out

00:37:26.100 but there's a fist around the neck okay and then the arm okay the arm pulls the baby out

00:37:33.980 holding the baby by its neck and then they take it away and then the murderer baby comes out next

00:37:42.780 and that's your baby imagine oh my god wouldn't that be great in a film i say that's an opening

00:37:50.120 film that's an opening scene i mean the hand like that's i mean the baby doesn't have to have been

00:37:55.300 killed it could just be like no it shouldn't have been killed it's too brutal yeah yeah

00:37:59.200 it's just hanging there and someone's a wrestle it away from the hand the hand of the violent baby

00:38:06.620 i mean anything where you know the baby is satan the baby is satan spawn etc so cool i need to be

00:38:12.180 watching i'm always interested because that is you know the anxiety of of the other that is you

00:38:18.620 know the child and who is this alien and all that kind of stuff like speakable say that was clear

00:38:22.640 yeah well i actually i want to quickly get into my prenatal memory but then i want you to talk

00:38:26.460 about please i love what you talk about about is it burger the whole thing of twins twins

00:38:31.040 yeah i can't wait to discuss it i have the book here somewhere the art of the comic okay yeah

00:38:37.280 yeah exactly really quick i'll just say so i have a prenatal memory apparently when i was three i

00:38:43.060 was describing the womb and i was like where was the place that was pink or something like it

00:38:48.000 fully happened and i have a memory told me this is it fabricated i'll never know but i have this

00:38:54.460 memory and all i see is convex pink and then there's like this darker line kind of interrupting

00:38:59.760 the frame debatably the umbilicus kate it's real because what else is that it's real it's real

00:39:09.220 it's curved pink flesh no no no like i'm sorry there's it's real yeah okay and guess what we're

00:39:15.740 gonna have to do on poog we're gonna have to get um you know i like to go straight to the top so

00:39:19.920 ideally brian l weiss aka author of um many lives many masters thank you yes i really i've never

00:39:25.760 read it yeah i've read a few of his books regression therapy i'm desperate for some of

00:39:30.300 that and i want some past we could get you in there so fast and you know the whole thing with

00:39:34.260 him was that he was clinically doing regression therapy like regressing people to childhood

00:39:39.220 memories baby stuff to like uncover traumas and release them my old therapist was into that stuff

00:39:46.040 and i could never really go with him he was like he wanted to do exercises with me and i was like

00:39:49.840 it just feels like cheesy i can't get into it but i could do it with you no totally really quickly

00:39:53.820 though i want you to tell back on the topic of twins tell me the henry beger wait but you know

00:39:59.520 the whole thing with with many lives many masters is that he was regressing patients to babyhood

00:40:03.720 and someone kept going oh hell yeah okay and they were like so it's like childhood you know like

00:40:08.520 shoes in first grade okay there are my kids and then like hospital ceiling okay and then it was

00:40:15.840 like it was like they went to and then it was like I'm crouched under a tree like within I don't know

00:40:21.260 whatever I forget what the specific one was but they're like I'm making shoes it's 1842 yeah I

00:40:27.860 glanced at a calendar hanging on the wall what's the date you know I did pass a progression once

00:40:34.060 But I didn't trust the person completely. And so it wasn't. But I yeah, I want that. But I feel like because you have this access via the single memory to the womb, I feel like you could get in there fast. And anyway, we'll definitely do that. And we're gonna do a full episode on past life regression and regression.

00:40:50.860 We're going to do a full Many Lives, Many Masters regression.

00:40:53.620 But Bergson's thesis about comedy is that we laugh when we see someone, something being inadaptive, being rigid.

00:41:02.860 OK, because so drama and seriousness and whatever things that move us, transport us in them, we see the body, the person being elevated to their spirit. 0.66

00:41:14.820 Essentially, a ballerina is not funny when she leaps.

00:41:17.860 OK, and it's beautiful.

00:41:20.860 and drama is people taking meaningful action and adapting okay but anyway so here's the idea like

00:41:27.680 so drama you see someone making choices and adapting to situations right comedy focuses

00:41:33.620 more on the unconscious activities not the things you're choosing to do but your rigidity okay and

00:41:38.720 it goes all the way down to slipping on a banana peel okay why is it funny because in that moment

00:41:43.800 where they are slipping on the banana peel they still think they're just walking and down they go

00:41:47.620 right so and then the idea is like the kind of going back to the caveman laughing thing it was

00:41:53.580 like we laugh to vocally signal to the person is like the adaptive the question of like why this

00:41:59.760 would evolutionarily continue like we laugh so that the person is alerted that they have just

00:42:05.620 behaved in an inadaptive fashion so you're bringing them back to consciousness essentially

00:42:09.860 so a kind of rigidity mechanical anything that draws attention to the sudden rigid mechanical

00:42:16.400 physical makes us laugh okay and and then twins he points out are inherently comic because they

00:42:25.320 make the human body appear to have just been stamped out with a mold you know by god or

00:42:30.640 whatever okay like almost like it's dehumanizing for there to be someone who looks exactly like

00:42:36.560 you you know what i mean you were just stamped with the same mold yeah i mean it's utterly

00:42:41.580 absurd yeah so there's two of you and yet different souls different minds I always tried to 0.98

00:42:47.100 this stupid joke about my fear of having twins and trying to develop them individually and it 0.97

00:42:53.480 was this joke about like something like you know like no you're your own person Tom I'm Jim 0.99

00:42:58.460 it was like trying to convince Tom that no I see you as your own person but getting it wrong

00:43:04.440 I'm talking to Jim yes my favorite thing is I know someone who had twins and she was like I

00:43:10.020 can't tell them apart which is so amazing it's like you think the mother would know right but i

00:43:14.100 love that like the babies are home and she's like i literally have to draw like an x on one of their

00:43:18.600 foreheads to know because it's like okay who would ever know and what if they got i'm googling

00:43:23.680 something how could it not happen you have two twins by accident you know them and then they go

00:43:27.540 their whole lives thinking they're the other one but it doesn't make some difference no no no i

00:43:32.060 can't tell you who into this is okay i'm googling right now mark twain twin my brother okay because

00:43:37.100 there's a little like three line thing that expresses just that but anyway yeah it was

00:43:41.600 something like i don't know who i or like i am dead i am my brother or something like like i 0.78

00:43:47.960 don't know i forget like there was another way i read that like that is fucking it up for me

00:43:52.380 but the right version of it makes you feel like this paradox in your head that is so funny

00:43:57.560 well it's also just something so funny too about we're reading this now in 2020 it's like

00:44:01.620 mark twain told an interviewer it's like i know anyway well you know it's like this is a very

00:44:06.300 simple idea but it's stunning to me okay like as he sat there being interviewed he had the feeling

00:44:11.520 that we have right of being right on the very lip the riding the wave of there's nothing in front of

00:44:17.020 us there's only things behind us right like at any point in history people have years and years and

00:44:22.900 years and years of human history behind them and nothing in front of them so we feel we feel like

00:44:26.660 we're at the front of the line right i'm saying yeah and so you feel like the most important in

00:44:30.920 this way like everything else is in the past there's no one ahead there's no one in the front

00:44:35.340 of me and it's like i feel like when we look back on people in the past we expect them to know that

00:44:41.920 they are not yes okay to know that they're in the past and so and so to be like to realize and so

00:44:48.480 like i've always tried as a result like i've always often even like fantasize about writing

00:44:54.240 a letter like to the future like i know i know you think i don't know that is the dumb look i

00:44:59.100 mean this relates to my my dead photo genius genius tell it to the people at home for those

00:45:04.240 It's just the idea that I had this experience where I'd stare at photos of people who were dead, whether it was relatives or and I call them the piano toppers because it's like, you know, in my parents' home, you know, like that's where the dead people go, like in this primo real estate on top of the piano.

00:45:22.100 Piano topper is the most genius thing I've ever heard.

00:45:25.820 Oh, my God.

00:45:26.720 Oh, my God.

00:45:27.120 That is so funny, Jacqueline. 0.99

00:45:28.820 But I look at them and they look dumb to me because I can tell in the photo they don't realize they're dead now. 0.92

00:45:32.760 and so it's just this grotesque indignity um and so i believe that and so and i want to be like 1.00

00:45:39.940 you're dead you know like maybe wipe that stupid smile off your face like uh you know and and so 0.99

00:45:44.240 i always try when someone takes a photo of me to give a bit of a hint of a knowing glance you know 1.00

00:45:48.980 just something lets the people know i know i'm dead and i'm coming for you one of these days 0.97

00:45:52.580 you know whatever so genius i hate to be a fool i hate to be a fool that we put on the past this 0.87

00:45:58.100 assumption that they knew they were living in the past contextualization of i have to say it's like 0.89

00:46:03.040 that's why global warming that's why right we're doomed because right every hundred years new

00:46:08.360 people every hundred years new people and everyone and so the new batch oh you mean it doesn't build

00:46:13.820 here we are we we're incapable of seeing ourselves as in the past or seeing us ourselves as setting

00:46:19.200 up a future for someone else right just inherently right no no right like we're doing it for the

00:46:24.360 children yeah i mean i wait what is it i believe the children are the future is that the lyric

00:46:29.440 yeah okay okay okay because if it is it's it's like the fact that you're stating i believe the

00:46:36.660 children are the future is suggesting and when you look it up make sure it is it is it is okay

00:46:42.780 i believe right yeah and it's like it's suggesting that it's not just an obvious and absolute truth

00:46:48.460 right it's like i actually i believe we got to get it together because yeah the children are the

00:46:53.660 future um you know they're not merely something for us to look back on in our twilight years and

00:46:58.380 remember raising but anyway but on the list so like twain is sitting there being interviewed i

00:47:02.900 mean particularly when you look at sort of ego-based you know showbiz right right like

00:47:07.440 in hollywood like any like pictures of stars in previous you know and you see them on their faces

00:47:13.420 like them enjoying their lives and enjoying being like stars right and like drinking at fancy parties

00:47:19.460 And they're just and it's like, oh, you don't realize that you're not at the forefront.

00:47:24.260 You know, yeah, they were.

00:47:26.060 Yeah, they were the very newest thing.

00:47:28.940 Well, that's why they're interesting.

00:47:30.600 God, yeah.

00:47:31.000 It's so funny.

00:47:31.700 It's like this like reckoning with mortality and death and the passage of time.

00:47:35.320 There you are on the red carpet.

00:47:36.840 Right. 1.00

00:47:37.120 In 1992, thinking you're hot shit and that you've got the best outfit. 1.00

00:47:40.880 And then here we are in the future going, you goddamn idiot. 1.00

00:47:43.880 You thought that was good. 1.00

00:47:44.860 I know.

00:47:45.460 I know.

00:47:45.960 I know.

00:47:46.360 and this is like do you is there a way to escape utter vanity yeah is it utter vanity for me to try

00:47:53.100 to escape the the photo that looks like you know oh god remember when we all wore our hair like

00:47:58.420 that in the 80s that kind of thing i try to escape that through like what i perceive as

00:48:04.080 like if i just let my hair dry naturally in theory that no i hear what you might not be in style at

00:48:10.420 any point right but at least it won't look like a choice from that time no it's the embarrassment

00:48:15.420 of fashion so it's why trying to keep with the latest styles is like very embarrassing i always

00:48:20.580 you know this thing they love to do where they go they go oh we talked to you know sharon stone

00:48:24.880 about her best looks and her biggest mistakes through the age and then they go through these

00:48:29.240 like they go oh yeah they show them outfits from the past yeah like oh yeah i remember that i mean

00:48:33.480 i guess in some ways it's comforting because it makes you realize you could survive a bad outfit

00:48:37.940 you can survive a tube top yeah a little something called the ads have appeared again off you go

00:48:45.420 okay i found the the actual version of the mark twain thing so the whole thing was a sketch that

00:48:57.540 mark twain wrote okay but anyway here it is you ready yeah so you see we were twins defunct and i

00:49:03.680 and we got mixed in the bathtub when we were only two weeks old and one of us was drowned

00:49:09.860 but we didn't know which some think it was bill some think it was me brilliant right

00:49:15.160 that is oh wait there's a little more i'm sorry there's just a little more goodness knows

00:49:19.380 goodness knows i would give whole worlds to know this solemn this awful mystery has cast a gloom

00:49:24.900 over my whole life but i will tell you a secret now which i've never revealed to any creature

00:49:29.080 before one of us had a peculiar mark a large mole on the back of the left hand that was me

00:49:36.100 that child was the one that drowned wait don't mention it to the family don't mention it to my

00:49:43.280 family heaven knows they have heartbreaking troubles enough without adding this so meaning

00:49:48.200 that he's realizing i'm the other one i guess he has a mark on his hand they're like i don't know

00:49:54.100 it's a paradox yeah i mean he's saying i'm the one who died it might just be a paradox i don't

00:49:59.460 know it's so funny the idea like imagine then you reveal to your mother it's me and she comes weeping

00:50:03.720 no exactly that's what it is okay two twins that you can't tell apart yeah like for example okay

00:50:15.260 you were saying about a friend who had twins and yeah like is there a reason to tell them apart 0.95

00:50:20.000 early or are you fucking them up like totally maybe you're just treating them like babies 0.95

00:50:25.220 like and until they differentiate clearly okay when they differentiate clearly then you give 0.99

00:50:30.340 them a name i want a baby now you do yeah i'm back bitch wow what about adoption i know totally 0.95

00:50:37.100 possible i mean that is the only thing to do and you're off the body clock way off honey way off 0.98

00:50:42.760 you're not like racing on a deadline talking about getting a dud of the body well i guess

00:50:47.320 it's the fear of the dud because if you get the dud but it's your dud i mean i really do believe

00:50:52.460 people adopt kids the whole you know they love them like their own like that's fully true right 0.96

00:50:57.280 like there is no like separation but if you get a real dud you're like god damn it for some reason 0.99

00:51:02.480 someone else's goddamn dud oh like does it make the sting sting anytime there are right anytime 0.99

00:51:07.680 there are problems are you i mean this is sick you're like oh well his grandfather had a vicious 1.00

00:51:13.280 gambling addiction and so that's why my kids like gambling vanilla wafers on the playground yes i

00:51:20.480 mean it's funny because it's like i would totally adopt well i just like the idea it's hard i mean

00:51:24.720 mean it's like that's what's crazy it's like expensive it's hard i mean i also don't know

00:51:28.000 what i'm talking about it's amazing though my one of my one of my closest friends is adopted

00:51:31.660 and she found her birth mom when she was 16 and now they're incredibly close like she completely

00:51:37.100 became a huge part of her life wow and now she has like her mom that her mom went on to have

00:51:41.100 her mom had her when she was like 16 her mom went on to have two kids and now my friend has her

00:51:45.480 birth mom who she's very close with these two siblings her adopted mom and her parents got

00:51:50.660 divorce and divorce so she has a third mom wow embarrassment wait were the siblings are they

00:51:55.320 half siblings or were they the same partner half right because it's kind of interesting if like

00:52:00.420 can you imagine it's like you're 16 you give birth you give your child up for adoption and then you

00:52:04.420 marry that very same high school sweetheart and do have kids with them that's what i was proposing

00:52:09.580 oh yeah it's fun and they look exactly like two other kids how would you play the daughter comes

00:52:16.440 to the door scene in a movie or television show so like i you know you always see like there's a

00:52:21.700 knock on the door someone's at the door okay yeah you'll be the long lost daughter like you have

00:52:26.380 adult children whatever okay and i'll come to the door like i hesitate like i'm about to knock i

00:52:32.340 hesitate and start to walk back to the car i'm the mom yeah okay like you have like possibly even

00:52:37.360 adult children at this point okay it's way later i'm an adult you know what i mean and it's like

00:52:42.080 come to the door and like I start to walk away

00:52:44.060 and then I come back like it's like

00:52:45.980 hey excuse me miss can I help

00:52:48.100 you and then like I'm hesitating

00:52:49.860 and I'm sort of not saying the words but you realize

00:52:51.820 and you know let's try it

00:52:54.000 okay excuse me

00:52:55.820 can I help you oh

00:52:57.280 sorry um hi so you can't

00:53:00.040 see my face the listeners at home can't see my face

00:53:02.080 my face dropped I know but I

00:53:03.960 know but I thought it'd be interesting to see

00:53:06.020 what came through on audio even though

00:53:08.040 we're not playing for the radio

00:53:09.880 it can't be

00:53:12.080 i'm jennifer you can't be jennifer it's okay if if you want me to go i just um

00:53:17.640 sweetie sweetie sweetie no i don't know i feel like there's always a like well i just okay like

00:53:26.100 let's play this through okay i think you're gonna invite me into dinner you can't be here jennifer

00:53:30.380 you can't i have moved on with the family i hope you're all right darling but you just can't come

00:53:35.880 around like this you can't pop up with my door okay wait no now do one where you okay i'm gonna

00:53:42.100 walk away no no here's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna give you my number and my information

00:53:45.320 and i'm gonna walk away and then you're gonna like be like and you're gonna you're stunned

00:53:48.700 and you're gonna take it and then you're gonna be like you're gonna call me back to have dinner

00:53:52.360 with your family okay i mean call me like back in the driveway i get it i get it okay okay so like

00:53:57.600 so like i'm sorry dear but you can't come around i completely understand and i i actually i wrote

00:54:01.720 down my number on this piece of paper and if you ever wanted to get a coffee or something but

00:54:06.440 anyway i'm jennifer and um it was really nice to meet you she turns she walks away and then

00:54:12.160 i unlock my car sorry jenny why don't you come in we're having supper you can meet your sister

00:54:19.080 scene oh you better set an extra play session daniel because you've got a sister why is it

00:54:27.040 that when you do that accent like that character comes alive like so profoundly that it's like okay

00:54:32.560 you've lived that life i know and it's a life in irish with four pots and pans to my name yeah

00:54:37.540 um it's not even a good iris accent i think i had a i had a beloved math tutor named gronia

00:54:43.940 who was irish gronia is that a common irish or maybe not common irish name it must be an irish

00:54:49.240 name is i guess the question yeah she was an angel and you know it's so wild i got a text

00:54:54.940 like a few weeks ago that was like hi kate it's grown yeah she hadn't texted me thinking it was

00:55:03.620 a different kate she was like the girls have soccer at four and i was like

00:55:07.100 the oldest trick in the book or when i thought i had well i did independently invent as a concept

00:55:18.180 and then discovered that larry david did as well right the fake accidental text

00:55:22.880 well wait tell me i don't know it there's a whole episode wait i want to get this i want to see if

00:55:27.720 this is right oh i i think that so like you know like you you know like um not oh my god not for

00:55:32.700 you i can't remember if it was like oh my god this text wasn't meant for you or if it was like

00:55:37.080 groenya texts kate okay and so she's like hey kate you know blah blah blah blah blah okay

00:55:42.700 something that she wants you to know but her cover he's like oh my god this is supposed to

00:55:48.300 go to another kate as in the one next in the address book i see i see so so if i wanted to

00:55:52.940 make you kate berlant jealous okay that i'm going on vacation yeah you know i go i go okay hey kate

00:55:59.660 um i wanted to say let's do that lunch after all but i'm going to mexico next week so to get the

00:56:04.680 award and then you're like the award ceremony to next week so i'm i have to now go then oh can we

00:56:09.740 reschedule lunch and then oh my god i'm sorry not meant for you oh my god it's the wrong one

00:56:13.320 yeah yes no i wouldn't award david does does an episode where i think he utilizes the accidental

00:56:19.720 so yeah i would love to have your friend um and scholar on at some point in the future that'll be

00:56:25.500 a great guest to note who the one who wrote motherhood oh yeah oh sheila so we'll do that

00:56:30.580 in the future this episode really was completely i mean this is a wild one and see this is the

00:56:36.740 crisis on focus right we set out to launch a wellness podcast with a special little twist

00:56:42.420 and here we have

00:56:43.920 I would argue

00:56:44.800 brilliant episode

00:56:46.000 and if you're listening

00:56:47.120 to us here

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00:56:48.840 for your

00:56:49.120 for your patronship

00:56:50.340 patronage

00:56:51.340 I can't do any accents

00:56:53.500 I'll learn

00:56:54.600 that 1.00

00:56:56.080 was Pug

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Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - February 23, 2021

Motherhood

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