Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Probably the Ugliest Woman

00:00:00.000 two best friends both alike in dignity nurturing phantoms and courting the muse

00:00:07.120 the hag divines when something must die yes that was poog but this is huge the ego loves to see

00:00:13.600 but never to find it was berlant and novak the whole time off air i was talking about having

00:00:21.560 just so everyone understands having a meltdown over my continued redness today my skin was the

00:00:26.360 best it's been i put on hydrocortisone cream and it immediately flares up i don't actually start

00:00:30.780 crying but i start being like frozen in disbelief and my face is still kind of burning again i want 0.64

00:00:37.540 everyone to understand and it's some kind of allergic reaction whatever i'm fucking convinced 0.97

00:00:41.880 it was germplaning a month ago are you serious my barrier yep germplaning a month ago fucked up my 0.97

00:00:47.520 barrier but using products being on short sorry to say it different sets random products different 0.87

00:00:54.260 makeups literally today the dermatologist goes you know air you're on aerosols I go yeah she goes

00:01:00.520 yeah you can and I was like well I use snail mucin basically she's like you can be using a

00:01:05.100 product have no reaction just suddenly you're allergic to it I was like oh that's like that's 0.96

00:01:09.680 complete and total like so we're fucked we're fucked beyond belief anyway point is but then 0.99

00:01:16.080 you said so I go I go being ugly feeling ugly the horrors so and I'll post on I sent Jacqueline a 0.98

00:01:22.280 photo so um it's funny i was going to say and i was going to say this earlier shall we talk today 0.98

00:01:28.180 about fucking called ugly on the internet yeah or appearance appearance and the horrors the life 0.88

00:01:35.500 now that we live the life now that we live and yeah and to be clear i see even though i'm you 0.98

00:01:41.060 know rehabilitating from instagram and i'm over a month i have over 30 days of sobriety from

00:01:47.040 instagram but um i did see due to a motion picture in which i have approximately four lines the

00:01:54.600 moment starring charlie xcx thank you to all involved it was so much fun um but the point

00:01:59.680 is i was involved in a photo shoot with charlie rachel senate and kylie jenner okay amazing you

00:02:06.300 know hot girl lineup everyone is you know couldn't be sweeter easier whatever point is i am also

00:02:13.220 social media felt welcome on the day i felt welcome on the day right and that was the morning of the

00:02:19.220 rash okay i need everyone to really lock in and understand that was the morning the rash getting

00:02:22.740 makeup done her going oh it's spreading to your neck i go interesting point is it was fast it was

00:02:28.700 easy i saw on twitter which i still call twitter i don't and knowledge the point is i saw i saw

00:02:37.780 someone had posted the photo and said wait i want to get the language exactly right for the listener

00:02:42.820 i also spent by the way like chris and i i think spent like 25 minutes talking about it like like

00:02:48.840 on a long stroll like about like life you know what i mean it's amazing and i want to say before

00:02:53.160 i go further this genuinely i'm not trying to be some kind of like it really doesn't actually

00:02:58.960 bother me also because this is like someone who i retweeted it as okay did you go into the profile

00:03:05.000 yeah of course of course okay so this person so again it's me charlie xcx rachel senate and

00:03:11.100 kylie jenner i'm obviously far and away the least famous of the group to some of us okay so the

00:03:15.720 point is to some and this man this man daniel safe friend quoted it and said this and this it's

00:03:23.000 actually funny this kate princess who question mark which by the way fair is probably one of

00:03:30.300 the ugliest women i've ever seen and then proceeds to retweet a pop crave photo of the four of us 0.66

00:03:36.320 i'm here to say it is not an ugly photo of me like this is like a totally like i see this photo and 0.92

00:03:41.840 i go yeah like like now was it video or photo originally like photo it wasn't like he watched

00:03:50.320 some program on pop crave and he got to know you we shot some tiktoks and stuff but i don't think

00:03:56.360 those are out yet this is like just a still frame that he came across on pop crave so and presumably 0.98

00:04:03.920 this guy isn't gay and he's on pop grave dragging me fucking bitch and by the way you retweeted in 0.98

00:04:12.600 protest yeah he's and he looks in his photo he's like on some mountain you know selfie he looks 1.00

00:04:18.240 maybe i mean he's fully you know salt and pepper like i don't know but this doesn't like did this

00:04:27.180 injure me no have i thought about it a lot yes no no you know as have i right did it injure me

00:04:33.900 on your behalf you know no because i then went on a walk you know with chris okay yeah and dig

00:04:42.940 into it you know dig into it and yeah yeah we got into a long conversation about i mean it honestly

00:04:52.040 went all the way to the soul right like oh my god okay and by the time we like came back 45

00:04:57.940 minutes later you know like we were like wrapping up the you know exploratory conversation

00:05:02.500 and amazing talking about you know on one hand we we know that just going so extreme with it like

00:05:11.920 somebody says something right yeah what does that mean like why does that mean something to us does 0.99

00:05:19.280 it like you know like we know all the kind of retorts to that guy's a piece of shit right 1.00

00:05:26.640 he doesn't know what he's talking you know he's a loser whatever right yeah you know that but you 1.00

00:05:32.660 feel something still maybe even if even if the feeling is i mean you know one time years ago i 0.95

00:05:40.820 said i said to someone like um oh god there's all these you know horrible comments under my stand-up

00:05:45.500 clip on college humor.com or something right god forbid i mean and they're like so what were they 1.00

00:05:51.420 Like that you're fat, ugly, stupid, not funny, annoying, you know, like they just laid out all the stuff. Right. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Like all those. Right. And there was something sort of like a relief of going. I don't know. 1.00

00:06:09.540 you know there's a conversation about there's a lot of conversations we can unpack this for 19

00:06:13.600 episodes right there's our how we feel about ourselves and our appearances and being in public

00:06:20.600 then there's other people's actions words whatever i mean you know like my dad tried

00:06:26.860 to teach the novak rule he tried to make this like a rule to help us

00:06:31.340 he was like that rule is don't worry okay about what other people think say or do now

00:06:40.260 now we all go well we care about other people dad or whatever you know no no he said no no

00:06:45.500 don't worry like it's a specific thing right it's not i don't care about other people it was

00:06:50.340 you know it's simple but it's like you know that has nothing to do with me all this kind of stuff

00:06:54.820 we know all this we know all this right yeah what is it really like i have a problem which is you 0.68

00:07:00.880 like good ideas can come from anywhere right yeah it's almost like some jackass insults my work 0.53

00:07:07.340 yeah it's like he's got a point yeah you know he could you know oh oh oh well it's i already live

00:07:13.340 in fear of like you want to hurt me like go for my work right read me the film like right the comedy 1.00

00:07:20.420 of this like this i retweeted this this is funny because is one of the ugliest women i've ever seen 0.92

00:07:26.020 is so it's like I offended him probably it's almost like right no no like my presence in that 0.96

00:07:33.640 lineup no no that's exactly it I'm sorry I'm interrupting because I'm like activated go ahead

00:07:38.000 no no Chris the first thing he said was people get so angry okay when they see someone they don't

00:07:46.020 know with people they do know and they feel personally personally like yeah that could have

00:07:53.200 me oh my god that's so funny why you and not me this is exactly this is exactly what cole said if

00:08:00.800 i if i may yes they were like it's almost like this person's just like who's that instead of

00:08:08.320 like it's like i don't like that i don't know her i don't like that she thinks she can stand

00:08:15.240 next to kylie jenner it's like it's it's very yeah yeah it's that like there there's not that

00:08:23.520 much to examine within his comment it's more like interesting to and it's a it's a larger

00:08:28.200 conversation about you know and encompasses so much but for us and again the drawstring the

00:08:33.620 psychic drawstring the the silk yeah like you have to pull up yeah or draw clothes the jaw bridge

00:08:40.020 draw clothes i mean you you are very good i'm pretty good at drawing you're really good at 0.73

00:08:45.820 lol-ing yeah like shit from the world right yeah and i'm actually comforted and sometimes think of

00:08:56.020 like your how you would lol something to almost like utilize it in my own life it's like when 0.98

00:09:01.620 you remember blinking white guy yeah yeah remember how he became he was like a he modeled a

00:09:08.160 psychological response that i didn't know was possible or something yeah right right and it

00:09:11.940 freed me like almost like yeah like that's all i mean you can move on yeah you can be like that 0.85

00:09:16.740 was a huh and move on completely i mean i again feeling ugly next to beautiful women is like

00:09:22.640 a deep part of how i formed my personality and again i don't think i'm ugly i mean of course i

00:09:30.020 do sometimes but you know what i mean i'm just saying i don't struggle deeply with like and i

00:09:36.300 And I think part of that is also, and of course now I'm getting, I'm getting like, I'm doing

00:09:41.720 the thing that happens to us sometimes where we zoom out and we go, oh my God, it's so

00:09:44.380 embarrassing to, you know, it's like, I'm talking about this in the way I've been in

00:09:47.660 front of people.

00:09:48.480 I've been on walking on stage since I was X years old, but it is just true.

00:09:52.940 You kind of get out ahead of it where you go, yeah, what's the worst thing you can do 1.00

00:09:58.680 to a woman? 1.00

00:09:59.020 Call her ugly. 1.00

00:10:00.100 Right. 0.97

00:10:01.160 So it's like, I go, right.

00:10:03.100 No, no.

00:10:03.340 I'm saying sure.

00:10:04.080 Like, yeah.

00:10:04.780 I go, right.

00:10:05.520 No.

00:10:06.300 so it's kind of like so you get this one goes you're ugly you go okay like well it's all i mean

00:10:12.200 i you know it's also you should have seen my friends in middle school and high school honey

00:10:18.520 like i had the courage to stand next to them at school dances and at the mall like but i just mean

00:10:25.460 like it doesn't really it and i mean this genuinely doesn't really hurt because it's just

00:10:32.420 like yeah i don't think i i don't you know this stuff has been like so battled about on the

00:10:39.280 internet like right like this this sort of discourse like nothing's even talked about yeah

00:10:43.960 i'm not saying that i'm not saying that i'm saying like i'm almost bounding through all

00:10:48.780 this stuff that's already been said like like and trying to be like all right like where have we

00:10:52.680 landed i mean on one unfortunate thing like like you you know this but but okay like there's so

00:11:00.400 many levels right the first is like i don't know like maybe if i were a different woman right

00:11:04.640 and i actually like did even say this i was like you are gorgeous i could like throw that in on

00:11:09.700 the text like yeah like just in case like whatever but there's something like simple like uh 30 year

00:11:15.160 ago like honey you go just don't listen to them yeah yeah totally totally whatever by the way it's

00:11:19.420 like the origin and we've all come to find that we've all i feel like in the modern way right

00:11:23.900 that's almost unacceptable right because it's like well of course you know your objective

00:11:29.560 uh beauty score which we all agree could absolutely be a thing you know has been um

00:11:35.200 questioned he's wrong everything's okay because he is wrong right right right it's like so so

00:11:42.280 that's like the old way like honey you go just right yeah and it's like that's old and sort of

00:11:48.840 sort of like not it right it's right right i don't know it's like yeah that's not it either

00:11:54.640 because it's like but then like being like sterilely like like this is about like sound

00:12:00.760 comes out of a man's mouth the sound you know it's like it's it's like i was thinking about him

00:12:06.660 it's more just like it's fascinating because it's just like oh my god like we need not speak of the

00:12:12.780 vitriol the the violent vitriol right you know of the internet or something and and it's if you're

00:12:17.620 on there at all it's like well then you're subject to it and like it i mean it was the reminder for

00:12:22.100 me i was staying offline and like just kind of you cannot go anything that you're looking for

00:12:30.040 you'll find but it's like yeah i mean i don't i i the tea it's so tedious it's like oh my god 0.91

00:12:35.660 they're still like no no they're still out there they're still out there going if you're ugly you're

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00:15:01.140 So I went through a brief moment where I came across some comments.

00:15:04.940 Remember I was sitting in a chair in a London park, okay,

00:15:07.020 and I started going after it, started replying to people.

00:15:09.140 Oh, yeah. 0.99

00:15:09.280 Well, that's a fucking bummer. 0.99

00:15:10.560 Oh, my God, yeah. 0.99

00:15:11.700 You cannot engage. 0.85

00:15:14.500 It's useless. 0.99

00:15:15.920 I mean, what it is to – like with this, that's like, you're ugly. 0.98

00:15:18.960 It's like there's no – I weep for him.

00:15:22.760 I pray for him.

00:15:24.600 But I actually was doing a mental exercise in the bath

00:15:27.640 because I was thinking about him.

00:15:28.580 I was like, so what is that?

00:15:30.000 Like you're like – you're matching him.

00:15:32.360 Log on.

00:15:32.840 Pop Crave, first of all.

00:15:34.240 What is your life that you're like consuming Pop Crave? 0.99

00:15:36.340 or you go who's that wait who's that girl on the end who the fuck does she think she is this is 0.99

00:15:40.760 the ugliest one i've ever seen send and i was like if i could push a button and ruin his life 0.99

00:15:45.860 would i it's like no do i would you know do i want him to like and there's nothing it's not

00:15:50.940 like that's an offensible comment where it's like well i'm reaching out to you i'm i'm gonna dox

00:15:56.260 you i'm gonna find your employer your employee called me ugly you know there's like nothing

00:16:00.820 there's been no crime well i i'm always surprised like i'm always like okay unless that man lives

00:16:07.960 alone right let's just say unless that man lives alone and knows nobody you know has no has no

00:16:13.940 women family members let's just say okay it's like has no mother has no daughter has no sister

00:16:20.900 okay has no friend whatever it's like who's he tweeting for right let's just say well the tweet

00:16:26.660 by the way i retweeted it which got eyes on it of course yeah but had i not who i mean so so it's

00:16:32.620 like a diary is he talking to yeah yeah yeah so so then you go right you go does he think he's

00:16:40.360 like in that in that little moment where he goes i'm gonna post this right starts typing it right

00:16:45.100 does he think i know it's like there's nothing to investigate in him and yet i always like i just i

00:16:51.960 am fascinated because so one one thought is either they don't believe the people on the

00:16:59.060 other end of these things are real like that you are a real person right right which is part of it

00:17:04.240 or because or they know you're a real person and they're comfortable saying that to a real person

00:17:10.220 right which they're not under any circumstance like there's no way this person this guy would 0.95

00:17:16.360 shout at me on the street you're the ugliest woman i've ever seen so he must think he must

00:17:21.260 like if you're on pop crave or whatever and his in his world by like ad for pop crave which i've 0.98

00:17:27.920 never heard of like you know yeah totally sorry pop crave okay but like the whole episode of this

00:17:32.640 like it's like he sees pop crave he sees you with them right yeah in the archetypal nature of you

00:17:39.320 know fame and da da da okay and you're the one being photographed there's more you're you're

00:17:44.200 looking because i think in the photo you're looking at a camera who's not the camera that

00:17:47.800 that captured the exactly this isn't like a this isn't the photo that's like this is like a behind

00:17:52.580 the scenes photo oh yeah almost like yeah like a photo of the shoot kind of thing and so there's

00:17:57.860 like a two-layer thing where it's almost like you're so removed from him like not only are you

00:18:02.600 not looking into the eye of the camera aka him in this photo he's looking from the side at other

00:18:08.060 people taking photo you so interesting and so and i think he sees you know he's raising you up so

00:18:14.440 high that he believes it's completely safe to like like as though you're you're floating by

00:18:20.920 on a golden you know chariot okay and he's like flicking a piece of popcorn he thinks you're on

00:18:26.120 the movie screen and he's throwing a piece of popcorn at the movie screen totally but also

00:18:30.380 i don't know because i you know i always i often assume the best yeah and and like i don't

00:18:37.120 understand um but no this is like the thing of like you want i want to do a full like investigative

00:18:43.580 like serial podcast where i go find him you know it's like hi it's me like can you imagine i find

00:18:50.320 him i go i fly to him hi do i look familiar to you he's like no there's no way i would

00:18:56.680 he goes so funny yeah like the pretty picture of me i was like this one ever seen the pretty

00:19:03.460 picture beside the point but imagine right finding him what would he what would he do

00:19:08.260 well i mean when i d end or or you know oh yeah the person sorry one of the people in the comments

00:19:13.880 right of my of something um did they say like sorry didn't weren't they like no i left one

00:19:20.480 visible that was like kind of like a i i was kind of like amped up from the other guys and so then

00:19:25.880 like this person you know who was sort of saying like something that was annoying like but about

00:19:33.080 the work you know and and so i and he's like you put your work out on the internet you know i wrote

00:19:37.640 no one's questioning you're right sweetie okay yeah yeah uh like you know there's this thing in 0.77

00:19:45.320 me it was rough because i went into this dm or i i wrote well that's a fucking bummer and then 0.68

00:19:49.620 something and then or the guy then dm me and then i'm going dming back and he just keeps going and 0.89

00:19:55.860 going and starts like taunting me like this has taken a long time like for you to reply like dot

00:20:02.900 dot dot like like a forming response like oh the thing about real comedians is like they can like

00:20:07.660 uh like on the spot be funny like i almost want to find it but he goes no wonder you don't have

00:20:14.120 any tour dates in the u.s you have to go to another country to whatever like yeah first of all

00:20:18.620 and then and then like like he's like real comics battle it out on the road for years

00:20:25.060 yeah they don't just have their manager buy them a special oh that's incredible it's actually

00:20:31.080 incredible right because what do you hear there believes he he knows something about showbiz

00:20:36.400 honey if your manager can buy you a special yeah it's kind of like like i think jamie lee like

00:20:43.680 our friend comedian like used to have this uh like joke or like whatever it was something about

00:20:49.040 like like you know sleeping your way to the top or something but it was like oh if you could do

00:20:54.040 that if you do that like yeah just like yeah it ain't as easy like you know that if your dreams 0.91

00:21:02.820 aren't a bj away no right that's what she's like if it was a couple blowies or something you know

00:21:06.760 like like any business person all right maybe not i forget how the joke went yeah point is point is

00:21:14.400 right so he's like throwing all that at me and then i get into this state and then i like send

00:21:19.960 it to my my agent in a who you know I barely talked to where I mean right but I sent it to

00:21:24.700 him almost like I just want you to know okay like this is what I'm out there against like

00:21:28.700 like just remember with me and your other women clients okay yeah yeah yeah psychotic I don't

00:21:36.380 know why like I went there for like emotional you know whatever and he was like you gave this guy

00:21:40.600 the thrill of his life you made his day you made his year so I was instantly ashamed you know and

00:21:46.200 being like yeah but why do i have to be so like i'm like i'm happy to make make uh his year if i

00:21:54.140 also in one moment didn't have like self-restraint you know what i mean like like i mean i i famously

00:21:59.880 defend i notoriously defend sort of useless diminishing return you know like that's only 0.92

00:22:06.540 gonna make it worse like fuck it i'm doing it anyway it's so crazy because i'm having the urge 0.96

00:22:11.100 like i again i don't i don't respond to trolls whatever yeah i'm having the urge also because 0.98

00:22:16.440 thank fucking god like imagine like famous women like what they get like true i mean we we know 0.61

00:22:23.740 what they get but what i'm trying to say is i'm having the urge right now i'm not going to do it 0.94

00:22:26.920 i'm also having the urge to dm the guy and be like who are you and like what what brought you

00:22:31.400 to this and well no part of me wants to like because when i read that comment did it ruin my

00:22:36.780 day absolutely not did it make me feel bad about myself no right but it's like it makes me want to

00:22:41.920 go like hey like i'm a person and like it takes a lot of courage for me to get up there and stand

00:22:46.820 up there and it's it's hard being in front of the camera and opening yourself up to you know to

00:22:51.060 criticism and the scrutiny and um you know you really hurt me man you know it's almost like

00:22:57.200 the ultimate it's like i just want to hurt him like i'm just like i believe that he has a soul

00:23:02.820 and a heart I think most people I do think most people are good and don't want to hurt people

00:23:08.380 no no I think yeah I do too so I would go into this thing where it wasn't like I go in and go 0.99

00:23:13.060 fuck you fuck you okay I was like this really bummed me out or like yeah like like I was like 0.99

00:23:19.280 what a bummer for me to come over here and read this right now I was enjoying my day I posted 1.00

00:23:24.600 this clip I also think there's something there's something where they don't know who you are so

00:23:28.520 You're not J-Lo where every single thing that can be said must have been said by now, right?

00:23:34.680 Yeah.

00:23:35.320 I actually think there's a feeling of if they see you as vulnerable as in I don't know who she is yet, like you're trying to make me let her into the kingdom of the gods, like she's on the edge.

00:23:46.720 I think I can almost – I still have enough power to like knock her off.

00:23:49.440 Yeah.

00:23:50.000 Yeah, totally.

00:23:51.360 So I decided how many gods there were, okay?

00:23:54.340 Yeah.

00:23:54.900 And there were those and then there were the rest of us.

00:23:57.280 And if you tell me that some of the rest of us could ascend.

00:24:00.840 So I think there's a little bit of like, you know, it's sort of like, I forget who's talked about this, but it's like people see like, I don't know, like a late night television set or something.

00:24:12.280 Literally, if they see you on TV, they think you're rich.

00:24:15.100 Right.

00:24:15.440 No, by the way.

00:24:16.380 Like literally like as though if you're on that side of the screen, like it's almost like.

00:24:22.320 Honey, it ain't the 90s.

00:24:23.400 It ain't 2019.

00:24:24.980 You don't make money anymore in this town.

00:24:26.600 It's a, yeah, it's a, it's like a, I mean, it's like clamor to get the late night spot

00:24:31.300 for years, whatever, do it. It pays $800. I don't know. You know, it goes pretty quick.

00:24:38.740 And it's like, so, so anyway, anyways, um, but I go, hi, I go, hi, this really bummed

00:24:46.100 me out. Like, I just am curious why, like, why would you post this? Like, cause sometimes

00:24:52.960 when i click through they appear to have like daughters dogs okay gone their shoulders of

00:25:00.160 course and oh i told you about this i told you about this so i go into the profile dig around

00:25:05.000 find like a deep cut in their thing and then like i did a couple where i like this would be like if

00:25:09.400 i said blah blah blah about da da da and then i did like a song title that like was like deep in

00:25:13.500 someone's cut of like their own work oh wait wait jack and no this is so funny because i want to

00:25:18.080 make sure that people understand what you're saying no this is really funny you like someone

00:25:22.060 who responded to you was me and who was saying to you like you're not a real comedian like you're 0.74

00:25:25.680 not funny bitch or whatever you found his like sound cloud or something and it was it was just 0.95

00:25:31.260 inside of his um and so then you were very easy so i could be you're gonna respond to me like you 0.98

00:25:36.440 know name a song like this is uh like this is like if i came to you about wisdom dog sled and said

00:25:42.380 like you know if i said wisdom dog sled should have been eight not ninth on the list you know

00:25:46.760 like that was more so funny it's a fundamental human question to respond because listen we care

00:25:55.720 what you know you care what people think we're social creatures this is this is you know we live

00:26:01.160 by the word of the other but uh you know we see it but it's i'm not going to dm him but i want to

00:26:08.000 but i won't i i also don't want to but also because i'm scared of these men like scared

00:26:14.160 where i'm like oh and then you're gonna chop my head off or something because it it seems when

00:26:20.340 they are brazen my head off about it yeah like their account is public and they're and they

00:26:26.000 have a daughter on there whatever you know it's like you know is that not a precursor to violence

00:26:33.080 i mean i mean you know often it is yeah it's like now there's also the whole oh the ones who get it

00:26:39.100 out that way aren't the ones you gotta worry about you know that whatever but but just it almost is

00:26:44.780 as simple as like did you hate your mother like and again i'm not trying to do the like like women

00:26:50.360 only have value in terms of relationship they have to met you know like the whole thing like

00:26:53.860 that's someone's sister that's that's a man's daughter yeah yeah yeah but it's like it's like

00:26:59.580 you trying to get into their humanity the fastest way you think you can get in and you're going i

00:27:05.240 see that guy has a dog that guy has a daughter that guy has a vase okay i'll name the things

00:27:09.760 of value to him and like be like you know i'm like i have a father he read that post you are 0.99

00:27:16.660 have a daughter he you know what i mean like with this motherfucker it's like i'm confident he would 0.99

00:27:23.500 never say this to my face for sure but even in public like i think if you're walking by and you 1.00

00:27:30.140 saw me like he wouldn't go like jesus that's one of the ugliest girl that's that's the ugliest woman

00:27:34.700 i've ever seen like i don't like so it's it's only in this anyway whatever it's like i i'm doing a 0.56

00:27:41.860 a really poor inarticulate attempt today it's like we all know what this is we all know what's at

00:27:49.060 play here and like the dynamics and mediatized images and how we're all it's like this isn't

00:27:54.960 hand-to-hand combat this is the abstraction of violence of like you know just like press a

00:27:59.080 button and you kill people with a drone it's like it's like humanity abstracted and abstracted and

00:28:04.360 it's all it's all connected man anyway i uh thank you thank you for defending my honor i i sent it

00:28:11.660 to you immediately and you um well i was saying i would be happy to sign up again you know to go

00:28:17.160 oh yeah you were like say the word oh yeah yeah yeah i mean there's nothing better than being

00:28:22.320 called to action like that um but then it becomes about another thing which is battle of wits and

00:28:28.320 like imagine how mad i get when see then it's you know what you're gonna love though guess who did

00:28:34.300 come to my honor who microstene wait on on uh on like unprompted i read yo i'm post no no right

00:28:43.800 i retweeted his comment right and then where is it microstene basically did like a classic like

00:28:52.040 pretty gay thing to say buddy or something you know but then i love seeing people people 1.00

00:28:57.220 commenting you will rot in hell for this like you fucked up with this she's more beautiful than 1.00

00:29:02.820 you'll ever be you know it's really sweet so god bless everyone who came to my honor and we send 1.00

00:29:08.680 we send this man this hurting man this aching man we send him our prayers i mean if if we could watch

00:29:16.380 the doc on his life if we could be yeah right i know i know i mean girls get him yeah girls get

00:29:24.680 him susan yeah and then yeah and then like and then like yeah like little boy okay and uh and

00:29:30.780 the shame you know you know like we create this like don't you immediately create a very certain

00:29:35.320 kind of film that brought him to this place it's like oh yeah but then that this is another issue

00:29:41.840 where where it becomes um you can only forgive if you know like like uh what are the terms of

00:29:50.180 forgiveness the terms of forgiveness only if this person's life led them to this place versus like

00:29:55.300 irrelevant or whatever what you're saying is reminding me of like sometimes i see a site you

00:29:59.800 see a site of human suffering that's so unbearable that sometimes I almost am like I have the urge

00:30:04.640 to go like okay like for example I think when this originated I was like 16 and I remember

00:30:10.560 seeing an old man like a like a really elderly man kind of like curled spine like kind of

00:30:18.380 struggling to cross the street with like heavy bags and I was just like this can't be you know

00:30:25.140 like sorry like sorry i might feel like by the way by the way who knows he could be having a

00:30:33.980 great time you know what i mean he could be like having a great time but i interpreted it as like

00:30:38.400 oh my god this this guy's like alone and he's struggling and he's old and no one's helping him

00:30:43.400 and he live alone and what's going on and then it's almost like in order to make it bearable i

00:30:49.000 had to go maybe he's like you know this horrible child molester right i was like i had to like

00:30:55.060 well then you go the other way he was evil so then the other thing is someone acts hideously

00:31:01.280 and you know it's the you know you don't know what they're going through right and so i start

00:31:06.300 painting scenarios of of you know all the awful things that have happened to them that that right

00:31:11.740 spiritually there's an issue there which is like you're basically saying like they better have paid

00:31:16.480 oh i know to be here and deserve my forgiveness it's amazing no there's no exactly because like

00:31:21.520 and like another like carolyn mace but like you know when she's going through the chakras and up

00:31:25.920 in the seventh or whatever where like you know all is one and there is no time hell yeah um

00:31:33.040 let's get there there's no past and there's no future like there's nothing to forgive like

00:31:37.900 forgiveness is instant radical because like there's no past there's there is nothing to forgive

00:31:42.180 it's just yeah you know it's like oh yeah what was this like where was i hearing this it's

00:31:49.520 something like kabbalistic karma or something but it's like this idea of like people think like

00:31:54.000 it's just way of interpreting karma as because people go oh it's you know you did something bad

00:32:00.180 in a past life and that's why you're so right or you did something good and that's why you're

00:32:03.820 being rewarded now i'm gonna butcher this i have to find it but it's some other interpretation

00:32:07.980 which is like no no one's bad or good like it's all like these things are playing out

00:32:14.560 oh this is not it and i've well i think the i think the the um pay up or the the boomerang

00:32:24.340 karma or whatever like i think that model is like pretty thin yeah yeah it's on its way out

00:32:29.560 well also but here's where i here's where reincarnation and where i love it in past

00:32:33.060 lives and i fucking love this daniel's safe friend or whatever his name is we have a past

00:32:38.480 life tether like this is a thing where i'm like or does it doesn't relate to digital economy because 0.79

00:32:42.880 i love the reincarnation idea which is a cobblistic idea of like every single person

00:32:48.920 you encounter in this life is part of your like everyone you pass on the street you bump into

00:32:53.380 someone at the supermarket and go oh sorry that's like they're all because we brought up secret

00:32:59.080 contracts oh shit yeah like it's all yeah it's all one you have business with them right so like 0.60

00:33:04.980 do daniel and i have business like so and is that like who knows who knows yeah well well what what 0.98

00:33:12.200 it's a past life like right what it would be was something like you know like i think part of the

00:33:17.900 the mindset is like with the sacred contracts thing is like he fulfilled his sacred contract

00:33:23.460 to you in this life it's just to post that yeah it's like it's like you know like you're in our

00:33:28.660 school and like and he's supposed to do that so that you can do it uh so that we can know this

00:33:33.300 conversation so thank you for filling your sacred contract to me but but the the place that it took

00:33:38.720 me when we were you know on this long walk and i've noticed that like when i go on these walks

00:33:43.100 with chris just her standard sort of leave the house walk often end up like with the grove you

00:33:48.460 know get a coffee walk home kind of thing yeah I feel like we're usually mad about something like

00:33:54.960 you know global society at a certain point in the walk like like it's like it's almost like you know

00:34:01.480 like the root how it's like so weird and I feel like we're usually at like spiritual ecstasy at

00:34:06.860 another point in the root like it's almost like there's a time to you have to go through yeah you

00:34:11.520 have you have to move through but the the thought I had while we were walking and there's a different

00:34:16.460 way that your brain works while you're walking which by the way walking another another feature

00:34:21.660 by the way that's why i'm trapped because i haven't been walking the last few days because

00:34:25.360 i can't go outside i can't put anything on my skin even sunscreen your hat's on my way my new

00:34:30.720 hat hasn't arrived yet so i can't i can't go out although this could be your parasol moment i know

00:34:35.180 it's not what you want i'm just saying you know i know so here was my realization right because i

00:34:40.840 was thinking how do we deal with how can a little thing like a comment potentially ruin me because

00:34:45.740 i've i've had it happen you know for a day and i have to work through it and you know whatever

00:34:49.740 it's like yeah and i was thinking i was thinking all right just just just i'm gonna try to say it

00:34:55.800 like fly with me i might not get it out but i'm gonna give it a shot yeah so on let's say the

00:35:00.400 internet let's just say on twitter or something right you take up an inch or two inches like

00:35:06.040 across the screen he takes up two inches across the screen right his comment also like like a

00:35:11.280 tweet or something takes up a certain amount of space if you reply it takes up the same amount

00:35:15.900 of space right there's an avatar situation happening where and this is why i think people

00:35:22.400 like the democratizing cruelty of you know okay is that like their unit there is is as big and

00:35:30.340 takes up as much space as yours right interesting so but in a larger way when you then think i'm

00:35:37.080 walking around on this walk you know talking to Chris and I go okay someone makes a comment

00:35:42.900 that upsets me right now it's like it's a little comment and they've made it about me let's just

00:35:49.140 say on the internet and it's almost like they've hurled it at the little me which is the me on the

00:35:54.080 internet the digital avatar but I'm over here right right so and then I was saying I was like

00:36:00.860 this is my my scale is everything so I was like I was like I'm gonna write a self-help book that's

00:36:04.780 like only about like, um, like it's like size matters. Okay. But for me, what it is, is if

00:36:11.480 that comment, if I'm treating it almost like the digital model world, like his comment is as big

00:36:17.540 as my reply to it. Those two things are equal. Right. So who am I? What am I? Right. And it's

00:36:22.920 like, if I'm, this is again, like the altitude, right. But it's like, all right, I'm a soul.

00:36:28.020 Okay. And my soul has seven mansions. Right. Okay. Suddenly I'm grand. Right. Like I'm large

00:36:34.080 and even just that just the soul forget you know all these other aspects and then you picture the

00:36:39.580 little comet and you imagine that like fluttering by the moat okay getting caught in the moat or

00:36:44.960 something so the whole thing depends on not shrinking yourself to the size of of what they

00:36:52.260 attacked like yes you remember your the largeness of your soul it's it's so obvious like that it

00:37:00.420 it sounds like nothing but no but it's real and that's why even like i retweeted it because i

00:37:04.740 thought it was funny and also i was just like getting a kick it's like so amazing but then

00:37:08.960 of course i was like should i even have retweeted it you know is that even well that's why i'm like

00:37:14.320 magnetic to reclaim the right to like to be have a human response and reply in the moment like

00:37:21.080 that's what i mean like i almost felt like doubly ashamed like the agent being like you just made

00:37:25.780 his year yeah yeah you know what i mean like yeah you did wrong so well you know what i was thinking

00:37:33.580 i'm gonna say quickly i heard an interview with george saunders yeah and he was saying in a really

00:37:38.640 sweet way or he was talking about he was searching himself on the internet or something yeah and that

00:37:46.000 someone had he had done a talk like a book talk and some and saw a comment and somebody was like

00:37:51.220 or someone had responded to his post about a book talk being like this was like such a piece 0.96

00:37:55.280 of shit talk like and that george then responded to him and was like you know like this hurt like 0.95

00:38:04.060 or like i'm just sitting here in my pajamas and read this and like and then the guy oh no i'm 0.98

00:38:11.440 sorry the guy emailed george saunders to say i think or emailed thinking like oh george saunders

00:38:17.280 isn't going to read this this is going to get like this is just like there was something where

00:38:21.440 it was clearly this person could not imagine George Saunders was going to get but then he goes

00:38:25.940 like I'm sitting here in pajamas and I just read this and like I'm a person at the end of this

00:38:30.060 who's like bummed out now or whatever and then the guy responds and was like sorry like

00:38:34.940 no I always think if I respond with humanity like that's why I was like this is a bummer

00:38:40.060 or you know kind of just like like um and then by the way maybe you will rehabilitate and that

00:38:45.680 person won't do it again because like oh my god these people well this is the joke of the internet 0.97

00:38:49.480 and the joke of twitter it's like people are reading their shit if you want to get to a 0.76

00:38:55.700 celebrity the only one i could think of is tom cruise but if you want to be like tom cruise like 0.98

00:39:01.260 you aren't good anymore just write tom cruise you aren't good anymore on twitter like he'll find it

00:39:06.640 like i know like like there's part of me that really believes that oh me too like totally well

00:39:12.300 Well, I mean, anecdotally, haven't you heard, like, have you not been in a situation where

00:39:16.940 you've heard somebody extraordinarily famous reference a comment they saw?

00:39:22.320 Of course, of course.

00:39:23.000 So they, you know.

00:39:24.640 No, it'll get to, so maybe by you doing that, then the person goes, well, I'm not going

00:39:28.420 to, it's, you know, it jolts them into reality and they go, oh, this is a person, this is

00:39:32.180 someone in their pajamas.

00:39:33.200 This is someone who has their life with all their sadnesses and disappointments and anxieties

00:39:38.200 and you've reached them directly.

00:39:39.860 Why?

00:39:40.080 well that's so you're saying like you have to do the work of being a person on the other end

00:39:45.260 to to be a steward of of the future i'm just saying maybe by you responding to that yeah guy

00:39:51.100 i think that probably did lead him to maybe maybe i mean one guy and one guy and i worked it out

00:39:56.980 like kind of publicly right he was the one with the with the music and you know and whatever and

00:40:02.060 i admitted i was like i'm sorry like i you yeah you were commenting on your thoughts about the

00:40:06.680 work, you know, whatever. I was like, I was more, um, you know what I think helps. I think some of

00:40:13.740 the callousness or, you know, callous that you develop that, you know, some of it is once you've

00:40:20.440 heard a variety of, of things and some of them are heinous, but you might think are like not true.

00:40:25.720 And you know, that it gives you the, and this is, this is more like in the gutter, you know, like,

00:40:31.060 like not spiritually, whatever advice, this is like surviving a negative statement.

00:40:35.660 yeah like just like like this is like you know lower down like there's not whatever it's just 0.97

00:40:41.060 like that other person you know fuck I don't I don't have an example as usual abstraction 0.71

00:40:47.760 abstraction leaves me illegible okay but it's like once you have examples of people calling 0.98

00:40:56.540 things out and they're dead wrong then you you can kind of question some of the other ones I 0.99

00:41:00.700 don't know I always found it comforting I mean it's funny like the shit that sticks with you 0.98

00:41:04.500 like literally it's funny to shit that sticks with you yeah but like naomi i know what's naming 0.92

00:41:10.420 well who's the one that uh oh no i know most people okay do you remember this and it was 0.92

00:41:16.580 probably in one magazine once christie tarlington it was like they did a study of like that it was

00:41:24.940 like that she had the most perfect face in the world oh yeah yeah totally totally it was like

00:41:29.160 it was like they did it in a like they cast in marble like based on you know all these things

00:41:34.100 and it was like and one face was revealed to be like the one or something like that and then

00:41:40.460 so there's that there's um Nicole Kidman high school photo I was awkward okay yeah yeah because

00:41:49.320 my beauty was strange there's Tyra Banks saying something like beauty is debatable like a lot of

00:41:56.740 people thought I looked like an alien or whatever yeah remember that kind of and then I've heard

00:42:01.660 people say things like i've heard people say you know you hear it oh you hear you hear people say

00:42:08.660 things and it should be comforted they don't think you know i won't again no examples because

00:42:14.720 i won't i can't even do it i can't like i can't even do the like what if you were to say tom cruise

00:42:19.720 like you're not good anymore because i'm like it's too sad what if like that gets pulled out

00:42:22.820 of context and they like i'm not saying that i want to be clear i'm not saying that you know

00:42:27.180 what's you know what the the final pain here is i'll just say is that there's a measured

00:42:34.820 self-conscious quality i experience in this conversation okay of course which is that these

00:42:41.820 have become topics so loaded i know like that i don't feel like i'm even kind i'm speaking freely

00:42:48.640 but like right i of course of course i i i'm just saying that just to like because that's one thing

00:42:56.820 and i i don't even know i i feel it too i'm that's part of the that's that's part of the

00:43:02.220 conversation it's just that it's like well it's just like reacting to it yeah and it's just it's

00:43:07.380 eternal it's it's and then you just that's where you kind of just want to go to sweet are you

00:43:11.000 gorgeous what are you talking about i know i know and then and then like and it's like no i know

00:43:15.240 right it's like mother it's not about that you know it's like yeah um

00:43:19.780 well thank you for coming to my to my honor i just i find a basic

00:43:29.600 men commenting about women publicly i i find it so concerning right i find it so fundamentally like

00:43:42.660 primarily wrong yeah that it does feel like an emergency and it needs to be correct like

00:43:48.360 if we don't correct this man's fundamental view of how to behave in society. 1.00

00:43:52.860 He's going to chop someone's fucking head off. 1.00

00:43:55.000 Yeah. 1.00

00:43:55.980 No, they're coming to chop.

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00:44:17.120 It's actually part of my workspace now.

00:44:18.360 because I lay it on top of my PEMF mat

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00:44:20.800 Very luxurious.

00:44:21.780 Me and Boo, right?

00:44:22.820 And as we know, they literally just replaced

00:44:25.600 the comforter, the silk comforter

00:44:27.620 that I bought years ago because my dry cleaner.

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00:45:13.900 i mean it's also it's also you know um the audacity to you know you better identify i mean

00:45:25.560 whatever we've discussed a million times but it's like bearded ladies and your thesis but it's like

00:45:32.480 it's like you it's like if you had hobbled out okay okay under the

00:45:36.600 right ran around the girls oh made yourself a yeah like refused didn't pose like a woman

00:45:48.080 okay i know i know you dared to be a woman among i know i know i get i get you know that's what

00:45:56.120 you get no i know well and this is again what we get into and this this does touch on my thesis

00:46:01.300 of course but yeah if i know if i had positioned myself as the you know unfuckable utterly 0.90

00:46:08.580 desexualized clown then you don't go god she's ugly it's like because i'm wearing makeup and 0.91

00:46:17.040 they love you yeah yeah it was i mean it's like give me a million dollars yeah um 0.69

00:46:22.540 i mean to uh to uh you know or you know to maintain um some you know some not contradictions

00:46:34.720 but uh you know i think you and me insist on claiming several different archetypes okay

00:46:42.880 and feel we can house all of them

00:46:47.920 and that, you know, people taking that in.

00:46:51.880 Well, I guess, okay, here it is.

00:46:53.400 They're either freed by it.

00:46:55.260 It frees some people.

00:46:56.440 Oh, you can be both those things at once.

00:46:58.240 And it rattles some other people, right?

00:47:00.460 Yeah.

00:47:01.680 So, you know, you can be funny and hot.

00:47:07.480 Yeah.

00:47:10.400 I don't know what to do. 1.00

00:47:12.880 I have to close the curtains to my house because I feel like I'm showing my vagina to the neighborhood. 0.97

00:47:18.880 Like, truly, like, because I'm, like, in a robe, nude, and I feel like I can see walkers by, like, me podcasting. 0.99

00:47:27.880 I have my full podcast set up and just, me with my cunt out. 0.99

00:47:31.720 I'm so sorry to say it. 0.99

00:47:32.600 Wait one second.

00:47:33.280 Hang on.

00:47:42.880 you know i just got stuck like this no it's really hard to talk about this stuff because

00:47:52.180 it goes it's so deep for us and we have some it's like i find i'm i'm being just utterly

00:47:57.760 inarticulate and like all my um my genius is gone it's like i can't i don't know how to put

00:48:05.580 into words well and i think it is because you know what it is i think it's because

00:48:11.020 and also because we know this is like intrinsic knowledge like this is like but it's still it's

00:48:15.620 still like x number of days out of the year i mean we are you know what would happen if so for

00:48:23.340 example keep going keep going no i was just i was going to say i think like like i'm saying the

00:48:29.280 discomfort of it there there's a to surmise anything about beauty and appearance to to propose

00:48:35.300 it's like to have the conversation at all you know someone could almost come for you

00:48:42.380 i don't know it's it's almost too it's almost it's really difficult to talk about when you're the

00:48:48.060 the subject matter and the given thing yeah it's just it's like yeah it's um you're either for the 0.99

00:48:55.420 girls or you're not yeah and like you like that's the thing that it's like these motherfuckers 0.99

00:49:04.160 yeah hate women it's like really fascinating it's like oh my god this is so like it just is 1.00

00:49:11.120 like a friend was saying it's like these motherfuckers and it's like these like men 0.99

00:49:16.920 and some of them like let's call i'm i'm boldly assuming this guy's straight but who knows but 0.99

00:49:23.340 i'm like right it actually never ceases to amaze just just the the violent vitriolic hatred it's

00:49:31.500 also because you're saying you know the straight i'm like yeah what it is is a bizarre soured

00:49:37.220 attempt at claiming his own heterosexuality right you know you know like it's like um i have a taste

00:49:45.240 for women yeah yeah right like or i you know there's i don't know if that's it it's like

00:49:51.400 i guess you know what it is it's like it's or other questions i'd ask it's like

00:49:56.700 what do you feel when you see a beautiful woman to you right like I want to go tell me who do

00:50:04.480 you think is the most beautiful woman in the world yeah he goes Sophia Loren okay yeah or

00:50:09.100 whatever okay like like does he have an answer right or or who knows and you go you go is his

00:50:16.940 love then is his like there's no love in his appreciation of the beauty of so let's just say

00:50:23.180 beauty is not either beholder there's there's people he thinks are beautiful there's people

00:50:26.840 he thinks are not what is his compliment of someone's beauty mean like to him right to then

00:50:34.820 have to designate like there's a I guess it's almost like here's what I hear in it I hear

00:50:40.460 I have a gaze and I have watched a parade of women through my life right and I see you I see

00:50:49.180 women and i've been watching and i've been tallying and i got my eye on the on the pop 0.90

00:50:56.020 craze okay it's like the reason that the probably is interesting right probably one of the ugliest 0.55

00:51:03.000 women i've ever seen right it's it's a probably it's something you say by putting a probably on 0.64

00:51:09.880 it yeah yeah he's implying that that his opinion okay is of course of course relevant the question

00:51:18.120 is not whether his opinion is relevant or not or true or or a value right he's acting like it'd be

00:51:23.820 like it'd be like um like if someone was like you know i've seen every acorn that this tree has

00:51:29.240 dropped yeah because i have been locked to this fence by this okay for the last 30 years yeah

00:51:36.040 and that acorn is probably the smallest i've ever seen yeah right so it's like instead he goes you

00:51:42.960 know that acorn is probably the smallest they've ever seen and the probably is this modifying

00:51:48.640 language that's there to to imply the first part he's splitting hairs to suggest that he's very

00:51:57.900 precise yeah because his sample size is so huge there's there's like there's a linguistic breakdown

00:52:03.980 that could happen here yeah anyway this guy posts a lot too oh you're on him yeah of course that's

00:52:12.220 where you were no no no i just went to the because i was making sure because i didn't remember the

00:52:18.700 word probably but you're right it says probably oh really that's so funny like oh wait i don't

00:52:25.140 i don't belong i don't want to try to sign in there um there's no point anyway this is probably

00:52:32.840 one of the most inarticulate moments of my um no it's fine who cares i'm not gonna say i'm not

00:52:42.080 going to see her apologizing. I'm the victim. Of course, I'm disheveled. I'm having a rat.

00:52:46.640 Imagine how I felt reading that with my rash. You know, I remember once years ago, like showing

00:52:54.840 these comments that were on something and I was really upset about them because I hated the way

00:53:00.580 the photos looked. So, so there's that. I haven't even gone into this. I hated how I looked. So

00:53:06.960 fundamentally i agreed with them do you see what i'm saying yeah so i'm going i'm looking at photos

00:53:13.120 that were posted you know like i didn't have approval over i'm going oh my god you're calling

00:53:17.860 me hideous and i'm feeling hideous but i also believe the girl in that photo me doesn't deserve

00:53:24.460 to be called hideous but i'm also separating myself from that photo going and i remember like

00:53:29.040 sending sending it to like my sister or something and she's like i mean those those photos don't

00:53:32.760 look like you oh my god oh my god and it's it's like the whole like i mean we'll we joke about it

00:53:39.280 like you know you'll be like tell me i don't look like this or something right i mean that's very

00:53:43.060 well there was a truly hideous photo the other day it's just casual iphone photo me posing with

00:53:49.920 a friend and i go that's not me right and you were like no and i was like okay good because i know i

00:53:57.120 know what you mean and it is it is funny to go it is funny when friends do i mean i always think

00:54:01.320 it's funny to say um they go like you know um like obviously like like I don't look like myself 0.99

00:54:06.920 in this footage you look exactly like yourself like it's just funny just to fuck with it you 0.83

00:54:10.860 know what I mean um there's a lot of sitting in silent reflection here on on this and I I stand 0.98

00:54:17.940 by it because like we're we're trying to tap it's so there and constant I know in the discourse

00:54:26.060 and so every day but um and it almost feels like there's a throat clearing that like i don't know

00:54:33.880 we might we might figure it out next week totally 100 stay tuned love you love you

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - February 10, 2026

Probably the Ugliest Woman

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