Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - REMIX： The Body is Speaking

00:00:00.840 Hi, I'm Kate Berlant. I'm Jacqueline Novak. And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation

00:00:05.780 about wellness between two obsessive friends, two untamable intellects. This is our hobby.

00:00:10.780 This is our hell. This is our naked desire for free products. This is POOG.

00:00:20.420 So, you know how I have talked on POOG about massaging, you know, to the point of damage,

00:00:26.440 that kind of thing because I have this belief that pain or injury is the way through it cuts

00:00:34.220 through should cut through and every other annoying sensation because it often does right

00:00:38.720 so if you have an itch you know like or a mosquito bite you slam your fingernail into it you know

00:00:46.620 pain over itch every time for example right I wonder what that I'm trying to of course extrapolate

00:00:52.220 that to more emotional things that might be happening for you? No, because emotional pain

00:00:57.360 doesn't cut anything. It just blooms. I don't mean pain. I just mean, I just mean overpowering

00:01:03.320 a discomfort with another potentially more uncomfortable thing. Okay. I cannot believe

00:01:08.420 about the bruises. So, okay. So for those, for those unable to see Jacqueline, which is everyone

00:01:13.180 but myself and Theda, Jacqueline has a bruise on the side of her face and you got that from

00:01:19.460 the internet okay so facial cupping so people are familiar with cupping we've all seen michael

00:01:24.120 phelps's back okay and those circles and you know the whole thing it's a suction cup on the on the

00:01:31.280 skin it pulls it up you know causes blood flow etc etc i mean i mean so many of the things that

00:01:38.940 have become popular in this space recently right it's all kind of damage injure pull poke and prod

00:01:45.960 and the idea that like you know injury will save you right it's all like everything skincare is

00:01:52.900 like micro injury that stimulates your natural collagen right right and so i can get a little

00:01:59.220 overzealous because i always think that if i go harder i'll get more you know and so you and i

00:02:05.520 are opposites i know because i struggle i'm so scared so i purchased something with my own

00:02:10.980 goddamn money if you can believe it i forget what it's called already it's like a clarisonic

00:02:14.680 i should actually find what it's called i remember that yeah yeah you're ordering that 0.99

00:02:18.400 it was late at night um i remember that it becomes every day i find i think it's called

00:02:25.840 i'm gonna find it but it's like but it's like a scrubber it's like a clarisonic but what's cool

00:02:29.740 about it is that it if there's a uv it comes with a little uv light so it becomes disinfected

00:02:35.120 promises of um exactly sanitization actually go on no i just want to say that the scrubber is not

00:02:42.600 too intense. Like it's not super harsh, but even I become afraid that I'm going to over,

00:02:48.860 I'm going to strip the skin. I'm going to over exfoliate. But last night I used it and I feel

00:02:53.820 clean today. I always feel like my skin's not clean. I feel like I'm, I'm going, I'm wearing

00:02:57.960 makeup, you know, I wear makeup and I wear makeup. You know, I'm shooting, I'm shooting right now.

00:03:02.920 So I'm caked in makeup every day. So the end of the day, you got to get in there and scrub.

00:03:08.020 I think it's working. And here I am forgetting what the point was. Oh, just that my fear,

00:03:11.700 you go over, you over scrub and I chronically underscrub. Right. Except, except for in that

00:03:16.900 case, because I actually do zero manual exfoliation for the last like 10 years. Okay. I resist that at

00:03:23.580 all costs. It's one area where I know my overzealousness. Like I still, there's something

00:03:27.900 in me that still believes that if I dig with like something really sharp into a muscle until it hurts

00:03:34.340 so badly, I just believe that that will unlock something. Okay. And so, but with scrubbing,

00:03:39.660 I absolutely am chemical all the way. Wow. So the cupping. So I got excited because I've been

00:03:44.600 following this kosher, I think, named facial cupping, gua sha, et cetera, et cetera. On 0.94

00:03:50.760 Instagram, she pops up a lot for me and it looks really fun, you know, just slamming tools on your

00:03:56.300 on your face. And so I was like, I need I need these suction cups now. And I ordered a set.

00:04:04.240 And this morning I woke up.

00:04:06.080 I felt some jaw tension.

00:04:07.060 I reached for a big one.

00:04:09.080 I suctioned it right onto my jaw, my masseter muscle.

00:04:12.400 And it felt great.

00:04:13.740 Just felt this sensation of just pulling on it.

00:04:16.520 And I'm like, well, at very least, I don't get increased blood flow.

00:04:19.600 And I have with a proper bruise.

00:04:21.320 Now, thank God it's just under the cheek line, which technically speaking, I've thought, shall I do more?

00:04:27.920 And do I need to hide it, camouflage through more and create a sort of contour?

00:04:33.100 Or do I bruise the whole face?

00:04:34.820 I'm going to say no.

00:04:36.520 Do I bruise the whole face to cover it?

00:04:38.520 Another place I go.

00:04:46.260 Those close to we know, I did have chronic tailbone pain for nine months.

00:04:51.340 Nine?

00:04:51.640 And I'll just get into it now since I'm talking specifically.

00:04:54.540 It was nine months.

00:04:55.500 So one night I went dancing as I used to do in my wild, wild youth.

00:05:00.680 and i danced really really hard and the floors of this club or cement and i was of course wearing

00:05:10.760 healed boots no support didn't matter danced all night threw my neck out the fun stuff wow

00:05:16.940 and the tailbone like sorry jumping ahead the next day i was like ow and then i ignored ignored

00:05:24.400 but i was experiencing this chronic tailbone pain to the point that sitting down was hurting me

00:05:30.540 And it was bad. And I went to, you know, I went to, I saw the chiropractor, right. I went to the

00:05:37.920 physical therapist. Well, listen, I was always afraid of chiropractors because my parents are

00:05:44.240 always like a bunch of quacks, you know, and totally, but I, but I went to physical therapist 1.00

00:05:49.420 who's a trusted doctors. Right. Exactly. I went to a trusted physical therapist who's deep in 1.00

00:05:55.340 the family unit at this point. Shout out to Suzanne Tom. And she was working on me and she 0.86

00:06:01.280 was hooking up, you know, electrical prods to my, my ass, basically like the muscles like around my 1.00

00:06:06.920 tailbone. And I went a bunch of times and she was like, honestly, I'm not helping you. You got to go 0.98

00:06:10.920 to this chiropractor. I went to this chiropractor and the first thing that was scary was that she

00:06:16.100 had me fill out. She was like, you have to consent, you know, that if I basically I break

00:06:20.340 your neck, like you can't sue me. I was like, where's the door sweetheart. You know, that was

00:06:24.180 scary yeah but then she also made a reference to my number one fear stroke i constantly self-administer

00:06:30.180 stroke tests because i'm convinced i'm in throes of an early stroke all the time due to also the

00:06:36.540 constant migraine so i'm like well a stroke is near but that's not true knock on wood i'm knocking

00:06:40.560 on wood but i there's no use worrying but strokes to me it's just like it's scary though but she

00:06:46.800 mentioned to me she was like she said this and this has never left me she said you're more likely

00:06:51.880 to get a stroke getting your hair washed at the hairdresser when you put your neck in the hell

00:06:57.820 lock of the little of the sink she was like you're more likely to get a stroke getting your hair

00:07:03.180 washed in that thing than chiropractor I'll also not I'll also not do that then isn't that terrifying

00:07:09.900 never been back never been back I also I really don't enjoy getting my hair styled but anyway

00:07:15.580 so i but i'll just say this too it's the closest i've come to abuse is is other time where she

00:07:23.280 last one detail i'll say about her is i was horrified to learn she was my exact same age

00:07:27.960 which really threw me i was like so someone my age who's raised on the same monsanto apples as i am 0.91

00:07:35.500 is i'm now putting my whole body into her hands she's cracking my spine in half and it was it was

00:07:44.640 a huge trust exercise for me, but I have to tell you, she cracked me. And for the first time in

00:07:50.160 that point months, I had complete relief. I was walking around the office on the verge of tears

00:07:54.840 because the pain was gone. And I also was feeling high. I'll tell you it's, it's a sad story.

00:08:01.760 I know. It was temporary, but I felt high. And I told her, I was like, I kind of feel like I'm

00:08:06.500 stoned. She's like, yes, that happens when we release the whatever we'll look into it. But

00:08:11.160 yeah I was so happy I remember calling my mother being like the pain's gone and then two hours

00:08:16.920 later the pain's back okay and then I'll just say I got an MRI it was a whole thing MRIs terrifying

00:08:24.820 folks dying for one of well I begged for an MRI for Christmas for years I was like please let me

00:08:30.980 know and they were my parents were like no so then I was actually kind of excited to get the MRI and

00:08:37.800 actually I did experience some anxiety in the machine because it is terrifying and one of the

00:08:42.700 things that helped me manage my anxiety while getting the MRI was imagining I had a daughter

00:08:47.140 to pick up from school I was like you have to be strong for her daughter for you again the daughter

00:08:52.460 always returns for me and I realized like that's part of a reason people have kids because you have

00:08:57.600 to it's like when a little child has the baby doll and is soothing the baby doll because it's like I

00:09:01.960 have to take care of the baby doll and then it takes the focus off yourself okay that's a whole

00:09:06.040 other episode in itself. So I was thinking about my daughter, the MRI. I'll just say this. They

00:09:11.220 found a hairline fracture on my tailbone in the MRI. And they said, did you fall anything? I said,

00:09:17.040 there was no fall. There was no injury. I traced it back to the night of wild dancing. And they

00:09:22.400 said, yeah, that could be it. Apparently. Yes. Are you sure? Cause I just, I had a vision and,

00:09:27.500 and, and, you know, I've been trying to open my gifts up. Okay. Various gifts. The moment that

00:09:31.200 you said hairline fracture i saw you in the very boots you just described a long coat in new york

00:09:37.920 on the sidewalk taking a classic banana style peel slip and fall down on no i would remember that

00:09:45.260 no you're out you're you're no you're out you're drinking first of all i don't drink to get drunk 0.99

00:09:50.100 i drink to get perfectly tipsy but i could still talk to the goddamn bishop if i needed to 0.97

00:09:55.900 i don't enjoy this in control but i listen to me there was no fall i love the idea of you 0.97

00:10:02.720 in this moment i did fall it was winter ice ice in connecticut no there was no fall but the doctor

00:10:10.880 said a he said people come in with hair with fractures on the tailbone from ostensibly no

00:10:16.720 injury i traced stress injury i traced it back to the i traced it back to the dancing although

00:10:22.620 i did talk to a masseuse or someone i went to like some it's massage therapist masseuse is a 0.97

00:10:27.920 sexualized term i'm glad to hear that massage therapist who did fuck me and so careful and 0.98

00:10:36.780 they said to me i guess it was a masseuse but they said they were like well you're you're like 0.99

00:10:42.460 your seat is all about security or family or safety and i was like well i'm in a very stable

00:10:50.240 relationship tribal right no no i know the chakras like i know goddamn something but i'll just say

00:10:57.980 that it truly was a whole thing of one day i woke up and the pain was just gone but it took a full

00:11:02.460 nine months and there was a period of me getting on planes with a donut inflatable

00:11:09.140 have those donuts ever worked for anything did they work no for your tailbone because you know

00:11:15.380 those are notoriously i know so i was getting on planes they're not supposed to be good for them i 0.96

00:11:20.120 was like a goddamn hemorrhoid clown i was i say that as a joke because you know it's rude the way 0.94

00:11:28.560 hemorrhoids have been made as an ailment a joke like i remember once in this like summer camp 0.99

00:11:34.060 thing one of the kids like for the counselor's birthday we're getting him hemorrhoid cream

00:11:38.580 right right preparation age he's gonna yeah he's gonna open up his preparation age

00:11:43.120 i have to say that it's a huge miracle i've never had a hemorrhoid not to brag

00:11:48.820 but i still can't i still every year every year on christmas you'll note my silence you know me

00:11:55.900 not drinking on that well i know most people get them it's like it's it's a common internal

00:12:00.340 hemorrhoids there should be no shame around hemorrhoids but i again not to brag about my 0.98

00:12:04.260 pristine asshole but i've never had one and it's shocking because we all know i'm red in the face 0.99

00:12:09.000 on the toilet every goddamn day. No, I think like, I think the reason that you might have a 0.99

00:12:18.960 perfect asshole or whatever is because nothing's ever passed its lips. You know what I mean? 1.00

00:12:23.400 Due to the chronic constipation. Nothing's ever, you've taken three, three bowel movements in your,

00:12:29.540 in your life. And I recall you explaining that you think the perfect bowel movement would be

00:12:34.380 like a yam and it's not that's not good enough kate like what is god's bowel movement you were 0.79

00:12:40.180 like yam and you're like really into yams as is she's always cooking up for me and a manhattan

00:12:49.760 cocktail i am teeny she's slicing a yeah but what's the cocktail usually i used to drink

00:12:56.320 manhattan well actually i mean i used to drink whiskey i used to love it stops because of the

00:13:00.940 chronic migraines, but my migraines are under control right now. And it's absolutely changed

00:13:04.960 my life. That's a whole other episode. Um, okay. So I was talking about my tailbone,

00:13:09.080 just to talk about the back pain muscles. I was getting massages more than I ever had in my life

00:13:15.900 to try to ease up the muscles surrounding my tailbone. And what was crazy was that one day

00:13:21.320 I just woke up and the pain was gone. And they say, that's what happens. It just disappears,

00:13:24.780 but it was a full nine months of pain every day.

00:13:27.100 and you say that with with no hint of recognition of the meaning of course nine months i understand

00:13:33.380 of course gestation of a common baby because what were you you know i choose to live symbolically

00:13:42.180 okay what were you just well i wish that i woke up one day and i was like my script it's done

00:13:48.960 that's what the pain was but i mean i'll reference my journal but there was nothing

00:13:53.880 I didn't feel there was any kind of material

00:13:57.140 I didn't feel there was anything in my life

00:14:00.620 That felt like I had given birth

00:14:02.720 That there was some process I had undergone

00:14:05.540 Well this is a big question, okay

00:14:07.660 Because can something happen

00:14:10.580 With the body that has another meaning without you knowing

00:14:13.720 I grew up with a mother with neck tension and migraines

00:14:16.980 I'll use the common plural migraines

00:14:20.500 We all know it's migraine

00:14:22.440 i suffer from migraine i know yeah um and we will do migraine episode but my mother used to say

00:14:29.080 oh i'd pay i'll pay you a dollar or maybe it was even 10 i'm not sure if you will squeeze my neck

00:14:36.300 right here watching television okay and and and it was always this idea of like no go harder like

00:14:42.100 no really get it really get it you know tiny hands working overtime where's daddy she says

00:14:49.300 dad's in the office okay okay okay not looking at me I'm the same begging my boyfriend for his

00:14:56.520 elbows okay to dig to dig into my spine so I spent a lot of my time with a mental metaphor of my own

00:15:05.240 body okay which is that it's a series of sort of pulleys and things and I decide in my mind what

00:15:10.220 it feels like and therefore what the solution is so like I always feel this tension right here on

00:15:15.720 i think what is the um trapezius okay and the trapezius is just like a as far as i can tell a

00:15:21.040 big goddamn heavy thing all the way neck over the top a blanket of hell okay and if you go like this

00:15:27.620 you can kind of hit at it so i always feel like it's so tense it's so tense and i start working 0.98

00:15:31.160 it and then it takes on an obsessive quality where i start to believe that i have the solution

00:15:35.420 and so like now i would never do this but this is what i want to do i start to think

00:15:39.480 if I could just snip that muscle string with a scissor, okay, going the relief, I would feel

00:15:48.020 now, do you have any bodily, like, do you do anything that's bodily harm in that way? I mean,

00:15:55.420 even like chewing a fingernail, you know, like the OCD. I have, when I have migraines,

00:16:02.380 I have roll ice rollers, you know, things like to roll on my head and everything. And I've gone

00:16:09.200 so hard with those because the pain of the migraine is so intense that I am like, like a

00:16:15.280 couple of times I've woke up in the morning and I have like a welt on my forehead because I've been

00:16:18.640 pounding, like rolling so hard over my forehead with this thing.

00:16:23.460 Well, my only, my only thing I ever have to say about just massage in general, personally,

00:16:27.480 in my experience has been my number one complaint in massage is too weak, right?

00:16:31.880 Swedish massage is a joke. It better be deep tissue, you know, or get out of here. I'm

00:16:37.500 embarrassed that Swedish massages even on the menu. I mean, honestly, it might be me because

00:16:42.240 I scream when people give me massages. If someone I know gives me a massage, I scream. If a stranger

00:16:47.940 does it, I'm fine. What do you think that means? You lack trust in your friends. Okay. And you've

00:16:53.320 always been a sucker for a, for a, for a certificate on a wall. If there's a certificate

00:16:59.200 on the wall, you can do anything you want to me. It's a real problem. And you know,

00:17:04.600 you can just print those out. But I think, and I want to get into this with the, well, so my

00:17:12.580 biggest complaint anytime massage comes up and anytime I consider shelling out for one is,

00:17:17.300 will it be strong enough? Okay. Now I find it personally embarrassing to be on the table and

00:17:21.000 say harder. Okay. That I find embarrassing. So I try to get it set up in advance. You know,

00:17:25.280 I try to choose the harshest thing on the menu. And sometimes you can't tell, is it the deep

00:17:29.340 tissue is the athletic one going to be harder. Like my fear in life is recovery. Okay. Like I'm

00:17:35.620 terrified. I'm accidentally pay for the recovery yoga class. Okay. Deep breathing. Okay. Why did

00:17:41.320 I come out? Why did I haul ass down the street? Okay. Yeah. Come in here and prenatal yoga, 0.94

00:17:47.460 nothing worse. Okay. I'm embarrassed for the babies. I know it's like the babies can take it.

00:17:54.260 maybe you can certainly take it okay so what i i inevitably get into creating my own devices

00:17:58.840 laying on things i see when i'm going through a period of tension i see objects around and i think

00:18:03.160 that would really dig into my right no way corner of a table afraid corner of a table's huge so 0.96

00:18:08.720 anyway i've done it all but now it's time thanks to pook to get the free shit 0.95

00:18:13.620 how are you today well i actually am experiencing some pain in a new area which is always 0.96

00:18:26.820 immediately takes me to that i have six months to live some tenderness above my right hip bone

00:18:32.840 it hurts it came out of nowhere is it my it's not i've had it's not my ovaries yeah i don't think

00:18:42.160 can you believe how much we just don't know about our bodies like all i have is my body

00:18:47.600 literally all i am made up of is the flesh and the organs like it's it's it rules my every day

00:18:54.140 my every moment it's it's gonna kill me one day i don't know anything i don't know what's inside

00:18:59.020 my own body like like i'm pointing at this area like ow no i'm like where i don't i'm not even

00:19:04.820 sure my stomach truly no i and i only hesitate because i i want to like i i am embarrassed to

00:19:09.320 say like almost like i have a bit because it's the fear that later you'd hear it you know what

00:19:13.400 i mean and think i'm and then i'm faking like the casual conversation you're famously hysterical

00:19:18.200 bit i think about of just bodies of how like all the information's in the face oh my god i forgot

00:19:22.480 about that it's so funny it's so that's wow that see it hurts but but specifically to what you were

00:19:30.080 saying okay and actually i'm gonna make a note so i don't forget um i'll make a note because

00:19:34.220 might go on my act honey so we might have competing acts oh yeah no but specifically what you're

00:19:40.140 saying okay is one of my about not knowing what's going on inside of your body is one of my

00:19:44.960 obsessions like my okay i wish that i could crack it open every day i would i would like one i'm

00:19:52.020 always trying to feel my organs through my skin but the like the quote-unquote bit is

00:19:57.260 we're in our bodies right they're filled with organs and yet we're trapped via our eyes and

00:20:05.320 our senses on merely the outside of of this container okay if if our body's a house it's

00:20:12.840 like we're in an upper level staring out a window and we can't we can't turn around and look inside

00:20:18.400 the house we're staring out of the house okay and then and then like it's like hey want to see

00:20:27.880 inside your own house okay we'll send someone in with a camera like the fact that you can't

00:20:32.720 turn your eyeballs around and look inside like we have no access to you know isn't that it's

00:20:41.860 great thank you it's crazy it really is insane like here i am and even just to not have the

00:20:46.980 knowledge like school should just be about your body my god like how is there not like it's like

00:20:52.960 oh i'm in the fifth grade so now i understand like how is there not like i mean don't even get 1.00

00:20:58.240 me started on the mystery of the vagina and how the vagina is literally just like talk about a

00:21:03.640 house you can't see i mean that's the basement oh yeah that's facing and even the people that 0.78

00:21:08.720 can see it they're like we don't really want to see it or talk about it no nothing but a hand

00:21:13.040 mirror all school should be is learning about your organs like i can't believe here i am 33 years old

00:21:22.380 basically 32 seeing as i just turned 33 and the year is deducted due to covid um so i'm 32 years

00:21:29.980 old and i i don't even know where this pain's coming from oh yeah i mean you know what i always

00:21:36.520 wish relatedly that i could stick my hands in okay and then sort of massage the um the track

00:21:44.580 the digestive track okay like uh like a sausage casing if you were trying to squeeze the sausage

00:21:50.700 out of the casing but like pushing it out like but i'm like i feel like it needs manual manipulation

00:21:57.580 you know to like get the crans episode on stomach massage oh yeah and i've gone over the top with it

00:22:04.360 With rolling around on a soccer ball, a small, a child soccer ball laying on top of it. 0.99

00:22:10.440 You're like, ooh, I heard this like medical intuitive talk about how like most women, 0.96

00:22:15.020 that's really all they need to cure the bloating.

00:22:17.000 What?

00:22:17.820 You know, versus my ongoing prayers.

00:22:20.580 Wait, I have something to say about your appendix, possibly.

00:22:22.960 I'm not saying it.

00:22:23.900 Wait, I know, you know, this and I don't. 0.94

00:22:25.800 It's lower right.

00:22:26.800 Which is where you're hurting, right?

00:22:28.080 Or are you? 1.00

00:22:28.800 Shit. 1.00

00:22:29.540 No, let me let me look up where. 0.99

00:22:30.760 By the way, I know it's lower right every six months.

00:22:34.360 it's it's definitely lower right lower right abdomen oh god but do you know a couple things 0.97

00:22:40.060 one okay fuck do you know what the appendix is because and what appendicitis you're gonna be 0.99

00:22:46.200 you're gonna lose your mind when i tell you why is this about poop oh no i didn't mean that 0.99

00:22:51.220 specifically although although it kind of is i guess oh okay but it's one of these things it's

00:22:56.640 um and like if i'm wrong i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure i'm right okay if you look and you can look

00:23:02.660 right now but if you look at a model of your organs sorry it says that appendicitis the pain

00:23:08.660 gets worse if you cough wait yep well that's a positive yeah oh no wait i feel like though

00:23:17.100 that the by the way if it's appendicitis i go in i get a little surgery yeah i'm fine

00:23:22.060 it's so not it's not yet appendicitis okay um because i believe like people who are not in

00:23:31.440 with their body and ignore all manner of pain like like like i think you're really doubled over

00:23:37.040 well that's the thing i think if in like you know six hours it's like way worse but here's here's

00:23:43.200 what i understand about the appendix okay much like an appendix in a book wow an appended little

00:23:49.140 section okay it's like attached basically and and if you if you google now the organs like which is

00:23:55.920 also one of my do you know i'm googling internal anatomy near constantly okay i'm just like what

00:24:02.660 does it look like inside my neck over here like because i'm massaging it and i'm just like i know

00:24:06.520 this is the sternocleidomastoid muscle okay whoa okay and we'll do it oh we're doing and we're

00:24:13.120 definitely gonna do a whole episode on trigger points um so the appendix is like this tiny

00:24:18.860 little tiny little room off of the hallway that is the the digestive tract i guess i can't what's

00:24:26.980 what is it large intestine small intestine i forget which one yeah but it's literally like

00:24:31.400 it looks like a little curl if you google it connects the large intestine to the small intestine

00:24:35.680 but and i think it might be near like the ileocele valve wow jacqueline yeah i think it's by that 0.98

00:24:41.140 valve there's like a tiny vestibule and basically i heard that appendicitis or red is like shit 0.98

00:24:48.640 gets stuck in there stop like infects well bitch we all know that must be me as the one 0.99

00:24:56.100 as the woman who never shits right although oh i don't i never hear people saying avoid 0.99

00:25:02.640 appendicitis like by making sure your digestion like i feel like it's very good point very good

00:25:08.160 point yeah i'm never once i don't have appendicitis no no absolutely not you jump to illnesses and i

00:25:15.620 like and i fanned the flames because i was so excited to give you the information because i

00:25:20.420 just think it's really funny that like the appendix is not some interesting organ it's

00:25:24.780 just like a little room it's like a little like storage under the stairs kind of thing

00:25:29.140 it's disgusting it's a hall closet from hell but i do think because i had a friend who had like

00:25:35.260 stomach she was like ow and it was three days later and she went to the doctor and they were

00:25:39.140 like oh we need to completely operate on you like this afternoon it was appendicitis will you

00:25:46.200 an emergency google the thing about if you press down on it and release does it hurt more well that

00:25:51.500 i remember my dad always telling me that's when we feel better okay appendicitis test appendicitis

00:25:56.540 test quick test appendicitis pushing test or something pain pressure most practitioners push

00:26:08.460 on the lower left quadrant to see or the patient what complaints of pain like what and i'm dizzy

00:26:15.940 okay um testing my medical intuition i don't feel like you have that i don't either i think it's

00:26:22.320 just and that's the that's the other thing it's so insane about having a body is that it just hurts

00:26:30.360 sometimes right like there are just pains and weird sensations like every now and then you're

00:26:35.960 gonna get dizzy or you're gonna like feel the like all this stuff and that's just normal right

00:26:41.140 right see i one of my pastimes is investigating any ailment even if it's not an ailment that is

00:26:47.860 a problem because i just want to know why so it's like you know how sounds the wood settling or

00:26:54.400 whatever the wood settling the pipes doing whatever they do and it's sort of like maybe

00:27:00.480 it's almost like that with the body but i always want to know because i'm like there's a there's a

00:27:04.580 reason and I'm curious so I'm like what's in it what's one of the ones I and I just yeah like this

00:27:11.100 is an actual like there's something going on here right it's not severe pain localized something

00:27:15.740 going on and it's going on right there and so it's like you know and it could be all manner of

00:27:20.960 things but yeah I just you know I remember when I was a kid once in the doctor's office like a

00:27:26.220 basic physical and I tried to remember like oh what are the things that are bothering me because

00:27:30.460 I feel like you forget when you're actually there and I said yeah that like my eyebrow bone

00:27:34.980 basically kind of when I like pressed on it I mean and I don't mean like really it was just

00:27:39.820 like I noticed like my eyebrow bone there was like a place where it hurt and it felt like there was a

00:27:43.540 bump okay and and I hate this I was like so when I press on my eyebrow it hurts and he's like so

00:27:49.720 don't press on your eyebrow like literally I'm like you're a doctor how dare you yeah of course

00:27:55.200 how dare you give the like so don't press on it thing like i just i don't know like this down

00:28:00.500 home like 50s kind of wisdom yeah i just think is rude because i actually think like the whole

00:28:07.300 thing with the stigma the stigma of looking shit up on the internet and over researching and like

00:28:13.100 patients today you know they come in with a list of illnesses they think they had from web md web 0.99

00:28:18.140 md is the worst thing ever fuck you like literally yeah like how dare you how dare you be a gatekeeper 0.97

00:28:24.740 to knowledge and even more than a gatekeeper to knowledge, like insist that just that you're on 1.00

00:28:30.260 the cutting edge when I have no reason to believe you're on the cutting edge. Exactly. You come home

00:28:35.260 after a long day of tapping people on the knee with a rubber hammer. And I don't think you're

00:28:42.020 reading up in the medical journals at night. They certainly are. You're watching House just like all

00:28:47.440 of us. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but we have to slip away for a commercial break. But don't

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00:35:49.920 right here on the podcast. We've both been under the care of practitioners in the last couple of

00:35:59.780 days yes both facial and foot and dental and i know i keep bringing up dental because i keep

00:36:04.300 going back so much did you have a facial or a beauty today i had a facial today laurie hollingworth

00:36:09.060 wow um my angel you continue to say her name despite none of us being able to get an appointment

00:36:14.080 including me you might be able to get an appointment also she's talking about bringing

00:36:16.920 in people to work for her okay that she would expand so yeah yeah okay but i went to i went to

00:36:23.500 her you know i got some i got the full microcurrent i got the the industrial microcurrent okay how

00:36:29.680 did it feel i got some emphatic massage all right tell me about the microcurrent i'm wondering if

00:36:34.680 it was so i recently went to face gym saw their marketing on instagram right and so i went in

00:36:40.760 they massaged the face it was heaven and then and they applied a microcurrent thing similar to the

00:36:45.160 zip it felt more intense like perhaps it was you know professional grade i'm wondering how intense

00:36:51.900 yours was she swears by this machine okay okay did you happen to clock the brand yeah it's called

00:36:57.560 casey oh my god thank god i really was expecting a no and i i don't know why i doubted you it's

00:37:02.400 like a 25 000 machine well 12 50 if we share it i bet we could find a third friend who's interested

00:37:10.560 it's huge it's like a refrigerator i mean it's not that big but it's quite large 0.93

00:37:15.920 okay but you know it has like double prong and the one prong and she damn and she really takes 1.00

00:37:21.600 her time god did she have any comments on your face she was the current status she just was 0.95

00:37:26.640 like you look good my god she didn't say it like that she's like deeply loving and wonderful but

00:37:30.200 she was just like i talked about doing the zip and she was like yeah that's great to just kind

00:37:34.780 of you know maintain right keep it going she's like it's not going to give you what this gives

00:37:38.240 you but of course not i mean is it and of course not i mean it is right it is it isn't of course

00:37:42.660 not but she what i really value about her facials is it's not a bunch of bells and whistles okay

00:37:48.060 she's not going in there with the here's this and that and you know it just feels like a real

00:37:53.100 sorry i have to stop myself because this is boring i'm not though i'm like literally riveted i know

00:37:57.980 but i feel like you have to trust it i mean i mean maybe re-energize but like yeah we like i'm

00:38:02.980 dying to know we've talked a lot about skincare on this show okay you've you've talked about

00:38:07.420 laurie hollingworth since day one okay yeah yeah now this is the first time we're really hearing

00:38:12.340 but a recent facial i think it's pretty interesting okay okay so just so so she

00:38:17.100 doesn't i mean if what you're saying feels false to you that's fine no i just felt if you just feel

00:38:21.220 like you're just like trying to come up with shit to say or something yeah yeah yeah i just was like

00:38:24.640 not um i'm trying to think if i have anything to actually were there extractions there was okay so 0.98

00:38:28.800 there were some extractions um there's something there's been kind of a zit on my chin that i was

00:38:34.160 brave enough to not tamper with wow so i really let her have at it yeah um and she did something

00:38:39.280 to a zit yeah she just got it out i didn't mean you could really do that with a zit like i thought 0.99

00:38:42.940 a zit you're too oh like you're too far along like a blackhead there's something to get out 0.97

00:38:48.220 What do you mean? 1.00

00:38:49.040 Like a clogged pore, but a pimple itself is already like a post-filled.

00:38:55.420 But this is almost like under my skin.

00:38:56.840 Like I was like, I can't go in there myself.

00:38:58.600 She has to go in there.

00:38:59.560 And there's no needle.

00:39:00.580 It's not like popping anything.

00:39:01.880 I think there's a needle involved.

00:39:02.980 My eyes are closed and I've surrendered fully.

00:39:04.880 Yeah.

00:39:05.040 I'm like, yeah.

00:39:07.320 Okay.

00:39:07.740 What about the nose?

00:39:08.820 Did she do much around there? 0.99

00:39:09.940 Yeah. 1.00

00:39:10.140 Because I had some clogged pores there. 0.87

00:39:11.920 Because that really kind of hurts when they go in with a tool.

00:39:13.980 Yeah.

00:39:14.340 Yeah.

00:39:14.580 I mean, she cleaned me out.

00:39:16.380 Exciting.

00:39:16.740 But it really felt good. 0.95

00:39:18.220 and did you ask her any questions like were you like what do i do about elevens do frownies work

00:39:23.020 well she doesn't she doesn't like fraxel okay tell me everything i didn't get into it but i

00:39:27.120 really really trust her she was like no to fraxel i mentioned this laser that i'm curious in called

00:39:32.940 these are this is a laser but i did mention clear and brilliant which is another laser and she said

00:39:38.760 she likes that one oh my god does she doesn't perform any of them right no like that's kind

00:39:44.300 the question yeah you know what what does the woman who's not selling it believe in of the

00:39:49.400 products that she doesn't sell right right that you can trust yeah absolutely so fraxel is some

00:39:54.420 form of a laser where you're really shedding you're really the fantasy we have of burning

00:39:59.700 off the face and starting fresh i remember here there were two girls in my burn it off and then

00:40:04.640 it scabs and you walk or you walk around with a full scab mask for like a week i think what a

00:40:10.580 dream oh oh but i was gonna say there were two girls in my high school who i remember i think

00:40:14.720 they both like like shaved their heads together like best friends so they were like they were

00:40:19.420 like so they're gonna like start their hair care fresh like they're gonna take such good hair care

00:40:23.520 of their hair who in high school start from zero yeah i mean it can't be it can't be what occurred

00:40:29.660 but it did i mean i might as well stand by the tail i went to get foot help today tell me about

00:40:36.180 the foot help. Okay. I, you know, I went in desperate for, for the answer to be some kind

00:40:42.020 of plasma or platelets or ground up bone meal or some kind of injection, right? Oh my God.

00:40:48.020 To heal the, the navicular accessory area that I have the trouble with. And I was sort of given

00:40:54.440 the same diagnosis I'd gotten previously, but this time I got it and I trusted him more. You know

00:41:00.300 what I'm saying? Sometimes that helps. Sometimes you have to hear it again. Yeah. Second time,

00:41:04.780 the third time in a fresh office and i i raised up my courage to not just go with the flow while

00:41:11.100 it's happening because sometimes they'll be like so it doesn't hurt in the arch right and i'm like

00:41:13.960 no and then like later i'm like but it does hurt in the arch why did i like why did i like fulfill

00:41:18.480 his narrative i know i know that's that's what going that's so real so i was like and so i sort

00:41:25.120 of spoke up being like so he starts to say basically like you i already have these orthotic

00:41:29.140 inserts and he's like those are over the counter and look they're a little weak our guy is going

00:41:33.000 to firm it up in the back it takes my inserts in my shoe firms it up in the back brings it up and

00:41:38.300 he's sort of saying like you know these these help the only other option would be surgery but

00:41:42.060 you're not you're not a candidate for surgery it's not needed you know so it's orthotics and

00:41:46.940 it's like but i did the orthotics last year and they you know i'm still in pain right so it's

00:41:52.320 boring but i'm like but but so it's like this pan and i just like i felt like he was kind of trying

00:41:57.900 to get out of the room at this point and so i was kind of like um no it's just i i'm concerned that

00:42:02.280 they're not gonna work you know and i'll be doing my show and i'll be you know whatever right i'll

00:42:07.560 be in pain and i'll be trying to email you guys first of all try to get good luck try to get in

00:42:11.800 touch with the doc try to get a doctor's email i mean i'm sure you have them i demand them

00:42:15.200 cultivated those kinds of relationships no right but it's like so i sort of pushed so i was like

00:42:21.100 so there's nothing literally he's he's on his way out the room i'm like so there's no magic serum

00:42:25.580 and this this is here here's what upsets me right yeah i'm not a fool i don't think it's magic serum

00:42:31.560 okay i read on the website about six different therapies okay but then i become self-conscious

00:42:36.720 in the room like showing all having the knowledge yeah yeah because i think it's gonna like hurt

00:42:41.920 their ego right right you know so i'm like it's like navicular accessory right that that word has

00:42:47.300 been rolling off my tongue are they stuck in my home when you know for two years now and i sort

00:42:52.860 of dropped it in there and it was like oh but not talking about so i'm like you mean there's not some

00:42:58.020 kind of serum like why can't i just ask for what i want i mean as i did though i did i was like what

00:43:02.020 he knew he knew you know he knows what i'm there for with the regenerative sports medicine that

00:43:07.520 the website promised welcome to your 30s folks yeah he's like and he just goes not for what you

00:43:15.820 have and i was like and i like really heard him i was like he's saying like that's not going to

00:43:20.940 help you yeah i don't know it's it's not exciting but i and then the and then i had this guy making

00:43:26.620 me a new a mold of my foot for like a new orthotic whatever and i asked him but so boring jesus okay

00:43:34.680 no but the thing is it's like it's a funny thing because talking about one's own medical issues

00:43:41.640 yeah could there be anything more interesting i know than your own medical issues wouldn't it be

00:43:48.500 fun to do a complete scan of your like imagine if you could just do a scan of your entire body and

00:43:52.680 talk about every sensation you've ever had in like like I want to start the toe and go yeah

00:43:56.740 sometimes my yes right toe in the corner there's a pain that happens if I wear this certain pair

00:44:01.560 of boots no no I like like like go through totally every question oh on his way out the door okay

00:44:09.720 like on his literally as we had their post you know the other the other thing that brought him

00:44:13.580 back in yeah he's out at the door again and I like yell do I need to do yoga to spray my feet like

00:44:19.360 this again i like turned my feet in because my feet naturally go out and he was like no

00:44:22.840 and i kind of loved that too like i don't know that pleased me oh i love when i love when a

00:44:28.700 doctor puts you at ease like that yeah through dismissal i've developed i'm thrilled because

00:44:32.360 i've developed a very close relationship with my new gynecologist who i love right i think you

00:44:36.760 and i really don't know if that came up last week but i think it may have and i'm excited for you

00:44:40.340 and i want to appreciate and yeah because i'm in on the texts i'm in i have direct access shit he's

00:44:45.480 great and it's like text the doctor and that's what i want i want that closeness with a general

00:44:49.840 practitioner is that the right word general practitioner well internal medicine it's funny

00:44:54.440 you say that because i was screaming about that to you maybe last week on poog my how do you find

00:45:00.020 a gp right oh my god how i've been i don't know whether it was somebody who listens to poog

00:45:06.240 literally you're telling me there's not someone who listens to poog who who either is a top shelf

00:45:12.340 gp lives with one has a friend somebody who wants to be on the text thread with and be bombarded

00:45:19.880 constantly with medical questions imagine being the the internist and that's so after the after

00:45:25.240 this my mother i said gp at her a bunch of times she's like at the end she's like i believe it's

00:45:29.040 an internist oh you're looking for an internist okay and i was like okay you can understand the

00:45:34.840 benefits of marrying a doctor being a doctor sounds so stressful because can you give yourself

00:45:39.020 medical advice no um i mean of course but bad news all right see you in a minute

00:45:45.580 and we're back baby okay

00:45:53.340 um doctors oh scanning of your foot okay from every just scanning the entire body and just like

00:46:04.140 because we we talk a lot about body horror on this show but it's like just the terror the terror of

00:46:09.800 being embodied wait but turn it towards you so you don't have to turn your head when you're talking

00:46:13.040 to me do you see what i'm saying what's wrong with this i'm looking right at you okay i just

00:46:17.400 you kind of look like that so i'm like there's no way it's you're gonna slip

00:46:20.060 i don't know how to slip away if you're comfortable you're comfortable comfortable all right just we

00:46:25.060 talk about the terror of being embodied of having a body i here's what i wish i wish everyone had a

00:46:30.000 log i wish this for two days maybe it's called a week everyone has a log and every single sensation

00:46:37.640 they feel yes it doesn't feel that could even be considered slightly abnormal they log right so

00:46:42.900 it's like waking up slight sharp pain and jaw so like i want everyone's log i want to see what

00:46:47.960 everyone's dealing with right because yeah because you don't know because it's like what pain is

00:46:53.500 abnormal what pain is just because it's always amazing i was really freed when i think just

00:46:58.300 through my episodes of hypochondria like yeah sometimes like you don't feel well or sometimes

00:47:02.240 like there is a pain or shooting pain and that doesn't mean anything necessarily you have a body

00:47:06.360 it's just having a body you have a physical body there's going to be things going on with there's

00:47:09.980 going to be sensations right yeah not everything i mean it would be weird if the body if normalcy

00:47:15.480 was just feeling absolutely nothing yeah just pristine i mean you feel pleasure you're probably

00:47:20.220 gonna feel some pain too isn't that how we move towards and away things you know through the

00:47:25.980 senses in that way. So just so there's going to, I don't know, you know what I was thinking about?

00:47:30.700 I was, I was meditating earlier. Okay. And started trying to figure things out. I took a deep breath

00:47:36.480 and I was like, does it feel good? Like, what does it feel like? Sometimes breathing hurts

00:47:41.200 and it feels scary actually. Well, sometimes I don't like the sensation of feeling the chest

00:47:45.080 cavity. It actually gives me an anxiety that feels like I'm going to either breathe too deeply and

00:47:49.660 shatter the chest i was texting you i had a full-blown not full-blown but i had an anxiety

00:48:04.240 oh yeah can't wait to get into it i went to get by the way the optometrist hasn't texted me back

00:48:10.880 i have a very kind of how'd you get that number not very intimate but i have a strong relationship

00:48:16.300 with a local optometrist yeah we're no eavesdroppers are not surprised um i know how do

00:48:21.640 you get the direct numbers because i'm in my cs link okay i'm in my seat of sinai

00:48:26.660 by the way you're gonna think i'm exaggerating jacqueline i'm actually king of my cs link now

00:48:33.460 i'm king of my cs link now i love it my login is saved i broke i broke through but jacqueline

00:48:38.380 and i texted you this i was like it medical it is impossible to get appointments it took me

00:48:44.120 this is no exaggeration three weeks to get referred to a new neurologist the whole thing

00:48:50.360 they go oh we don't have the referral i'm talking to my doctor my doctor goes that's not that's

00:48:53.880 impossible i'm looking right here i sent it last thursday they we don't have it yet sometimes it

00:48:58.260 takes a second was it facts because and then yeah facts or emails and then and then the guy on the

00:49:03.920 line i had this was my third call in to confirm that they got it he goes yeah we still don't have

00:49:08.820 it i go god you know i'm just really frustrated i don't understand because she says you sent it

00:49:13.020 last Thursday he goes well there's one person take a take a second with this well there's one

00:49:17.500 person who receives all the referrals so it can take a few days and you see a medical for them to

00:49:23.100 get I go are you kidding me they're kept in a clock tower yeah exactly the fact goes up the

00:49:31.600 tower they also are the ones ringing the bell yeah and so I'm like and I kind of laughed I go

00:49:37.620 one person i go okay okay it took three weeks for the referral to hit them so then i finally get

00:49:44.760 okay now you can make the appointment and they go yeah she's booking in march i go great okay let's

00:49:50.520 just keep waiting waiting waiting so me too by the way so i got a zoom appointment for january yeah

00:49:56.980 yeah i too am in the world because my fucking aim of a booking zooms okay booking zooms four 0.73

00:50:04.360 months out now i will say i got a physical or i got sort of a physical found a doc i tried to 0.96

00:50:11.660 connect wait why am i hearing like music by the way literally it was so funny to tell them it's

00:50:16.300 naomi's at the dining room table at the other end headphones on making music can you believe it yes

00:50:21.920 this is hysterical no i know i had a feeling and i go so okay careful now because someone could

00:50:28.640 i know i know i know it's true well it's not moving i wish there was a way i wish there was

00:50:33.880 away i wait no no don't do anything i'm gonna text okay a text it goes in they're so locked in

00:50:40.800 though i know i know but let's at least try it but i love it i love it it's it's it's quiet enough

00:50:44.760 that okay hold on i'm writing i can hear your music okay and then i'm going i want to see not

00:50:53.220 in my mind okay meaning like you know i ran a text like like i'm sitting here i'm just i can

00:50:59.700 hear your music yeah they don't see it wait wait wait a few might break through they just looked

00:51:06.300 up at me and smiled look at your phone okay do this do this do the sign of looking at your phone

00:51:11.000 like what is it no i'm so sorry no there's no apology we were laughing because we were like

00:51:19.340 gotta be careful because it could be released i'll move no no you don't have to be sorry

00:51:30.300 t-s oh my god no b-t-s

00:51:35.860 okay wait are you looking at your nails your phone it's okay either answer's fine my phone

00:51:46.020 my phone okay hi um okay wait wait wait take me back because i was really into i know oh telehealth

00:51:53.720 oh right my doctor my doctor point is no three weeks three weeks three weeks you know i emailed 0.99

00:51:57.480 him i tried to charge charman remember i tried to charman okay okay i tried to charm his ass 0.95

00:52:03.180 via email being like i'm having anxiety because i'm trying to get in for this appointment blah blah 0.96

00:52:08.000 uh and you know about when london can i get a mammogram in london whatever who cares yeah

00:52:14.880 so stressful well well he's like no and i go this man's not for me okay i tried to be a little like

00:52:22.000 you like like i'm gonna live for more anyway i found i found a doctor good woman she rocks okay

00:52:28.940 anyway we do telehealth what does that mean she can order the blood work okay without me having

00:52:34.000 to go in first so i get the blood work and that's what happened to me i'm getting blood work today 0.91

00:52:37.260 and then and then if i do have the real physical with her you know then i can go in for a real

00:52:42.980 physical with her she's got it it's all in one anyway my levels my levels it's funny it's like

00:52:49.320 the levels all within range okay great right kind of wild actually for me you mean you were you

00:52:55.720 thought something would be out of oh well yeah i was out of order the b12 order the d yeah you

00:53:00.860 know like i was like yeah yeah whatever because because of you know whatever issues and i'm

00:53:06.980 getting my full i'm getting my full panel i've been putting it off for weeks jacqueline i'm

00:53:11.840 gonna get like seven vials of blood i think my cholesterol dropped by like 4 000 points since

00:53:17.260 wow you know sorry okay since no keto yeah well yeah yeah since vegan yeah yeah of course since

00:53:24.360 no animal protein but jacqueline i'm gonna text you i'm scared i'm going to get my blood work

00:53:28.480 today and they're gonna take like seven vials because i'm doing my allergy test finally because

00:53:32.760 i had another mouth allergy from tomato happen wait a second i could have gotten that done

00:53:38.320 because i'm due for an upgrade yeah but no it's a different doctor though it's a different doctor

00:53:44.300 i had to get i did a telehealth appointment with an allergist when you do one eye it is so funny

00:53:49.340 and specific i didn't even feel it it's like a way that you you emphasize you yes you underscore

00:53:55.460 you you're like it's it's like it's like a way of saying i'm really i really know what i'm saying

00:54:02.080 i've got two eyes on this it's almost like you're holding up a you know a monocle all right yeah

00:54:08.080 wait okay i but just the medical anxiety i had yesterday and i texted you i i'm in this thing

00:54:16.200 with my optometrist it's really funny so an eye doctor i wanted to get a comprehensive eye exam

00:54:21.380 like to check eye health sure i've never done that and i i go in there i call head time they go

00:54:28.520 yeah you're we might dilate your eyes and you'll be dilated for three to four hours i go excuse me

00:54:35.180 so this appointment's my whole day i get there and i'm driving there and i go kate you can turn

00:54:39.360 or you can get there and just cancel you know 25 dollars my copay thank god i go what's the worst

00:54:43.740 thing they charge you five bucks like you don't have to do it you don't have to do it i go in

00:54:47.780 there i go hi can you please is there a way to avoid the dilation and basically the answer was

00:54:52.780 yes they're like yeah we'll do like the preliminary test and if we see something we don't like we'll

00:54:56.020 go in deeper but they didn't say go in deeper that's my own language but yeah and then of course 0.99

00:55:00.560 but i fucking hate eye shit it's a fucking nightmare stuff in your eyes i'm touching your 1.00

00:55:05.940 eyes she goes i'm gonna put these numbing drops in your eyeballs i go whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa 1.00

00:55:09.260 i don't like the sound of that i go how long does it last she goes maybe 10 minutes i go okay and 0.56

00:55:14.240 i literally said to her i'm scared she kind of laughs she puts in the drops and then she takes 0.96

00:55:18.360 this fucking thing and she's touching my eyeball i'm impressed she laughed she understood your tone 0.98

00:55:24.620 yeah good like no i kept it light like because sometimes they don't laugh on that when you kind 0.99

00:55:29.460 like do that like i'll do that kind of shit to them a little bit sometimes like no or something

00:55:33.320 yeah and they're almost right to like they come to that like oh i it's very rare okay i gotta be 0.97

00:55:38.940 in a certain kind of mood but a lot of them will not laugh because they will not assume that we're

00:55:43.160 all being funny yeah anyway go on well no but she numbs the eye she's touching this pen you know the

00:55:50.300 the blow thing where they blow your eye that's not what she's doing she's doing a different

00:55:53.540 pressure test which is involving touching the surface of my eye with this instrument

00:55:57.360 bop bop bop ew ew ew i don't like bounce bounce bounce yeah she's doing it i have my hands up on 0.64

00:56:04.860 my head my like this i have my hands through my hair like this and she's doing it yeah and then

00:56:10.620 i'm doing deep breathing i hate it they take me to other place the guy photographs my eyeball 0.71

00:56:15.460 brightest light i've ever seen in my goddamn life the point is the doctor then looks at them 0.93

00:56:19.920 she's like yeah your eyes look your eyes look totally fine like she goes and then she's like 0.96

00:56:24.540 Wait, just realize something. Why were you getting an eye exam based on nothing?

00:56:28.720 You don't wear glasses. You don't have any, like, right? I'm not questioning

00:56:32.560 it. I'm just trying to understand. Different levels of anxiety and like

00:56:36.500 Wait, wait. So just because you don't

00:56:40.060 wear contacts. You don't have glasses, right? I have glasses. I have glasses. I have distance glasses.

00:56:44.860 But I'm due for a new prescription. Oh, right. I can see them. I remember you picking me up

00:56:48.440 driving them. It was like, it felt very like, I don't know why, like

00:56:52.360 julia louis dreyfus like in curb your enthusiasm you like in a car sometimes like los angeles you

00:56:57.820 know yeah wait that reminds me there was something i was dying to tell you about whole foods

00:57:01.520 oh no i know i know what it was why go to the doctor when you can just get a photograph

00:57:06.380 blown up of your iris at the grove in the farm you know like that whole thing now like

00:57:12.380 you can get a you can get a 18 by 36 framed portrait of your iris they've been popping up

00:57:19.260 it's like family it's like finally portraits of like the eyes it's very odd but um

00:57:24.400 the the point is oh but then she goes the doctor she goes do you ever see you do you ever see

00:57:32.140 floaters i go well this is the classic thing i'm like well i mean in my life sure i've seen a

00:57:36.100 floater like what i'm like not constantly not every day she goes yeah yeah that's okay you

00:57:40.580 know certain amount of floaters is normal she goes you ever seen do you ever see bright flashing

00:57:44.120 lights i go uh no i go to the movies of course i go well now i'm gonna sweetheart she's like

00:57:50.440 she and she's like yeah it's this thing of doctors just sometimes i'm like what are you doing

00:57:55.660 why are you talking like you mean like get a get a psych degree before you become a gp you get a 0.51

00:58:01.660 fucking psych degree well a hundred percent how like and she's like and then she's like yeah if 0.88

00:58:08.740 you ever see bright flashing lights go to like the doctor immediately i was like well sure again 0.99

00:58:15.760 based on i go and i go bright flashing light i was like i would know if i saw a bright flashing

00:58:19.700 light i was like i assume it's dramatic she goes she was like yeah like almost like fireworks on

00:58:23.280 the periphery she goes that could mean your rightness detached i go okay wait wait wait

00:58:27.020 i feel like something's being left out here okay and i like and it's fine right but it's like

00:58:33.200 like for, for, for absolute clarity. Yes. Yes. Yes. How do you get into a situation of, well,

00:58:39.720 that means your retina is detached. Okay. When you are, you, are you hiding something? No, no.

00:58:46.500 Why did you go to the eye doctor? Just the standard checkup, but you said, I want you to

00:58:50.900 go deeper. Do you understand what's confusing? A few standard checkups. Well, wait, what do you

00:58:56.920 mean? No, no, she didn't go deeper. She didn't go deeper. She did the most preliminary.

00:58:59.640 this wasn't like my okay i don't know anything about i don't wear glasses whatever right so i

00:59:04.920 don't know how it works well you have 2020 i guess so okay so my idea is that these people

00:59:13.200 you're not in phone right you're just thinking no no i literally was looking at literally detritus

00:59:17.560 on the table yeah oh yeah that's what it is sometimes okay okay so so i'm not frozen

00:59:23.480 oh i think i need some new glasses or oh i gotta get my eyes checked again check check the vision

00:59:30.720 whatever okay yeah um you go i even thought they kind of did that maybe at the glasses store or

00:59:37.320 something and then yeah but but to just go say i should get my eyes checked oh okay okay i guess

00:59:42.900 i guess this is what i'm not understanding okay no you're right i'm concealing something because

00:59:46.980 it's too devastating because i've never talked about the podcast that my dad lost his vision

00:59:50.080 last summer okay here we go because it's like alzheimer's yeah how much worse could it get

00:59:54.500 well you could go blind right right right within a week so it's like and so i even though that's

01:00:01.280 pre-existing conditions whatever we don't know what happened he couldn't really thank you for

01:00:06.040 sharing sorry yes but for him it's different because he has alzheimer's he can communicate 0.94

01:00:10.600 the way if you and i if something was going on with our vision we would be like what the fuck 0.58

01:00:14.880 is this shit but he you know yeah didn't talk about it and so um but that of course has and 0.98

01:00:22.460 even though pre-existing conditions we don't know and it kind of remains a mystery but it's like 0.99

01:00:25.860 optic nerve failure and so i of course am sitting here going great well am i gonna go blind in a

01:00:33.160 week or whatever so i i wanted to quell medical anxiety here we go got it got it so i went in

01:00:38.840 and then it's strange because i and then i remember yeah so i i just wanted i needed

01:00:43.180 someone to look at my optic nerve and go, you're okay. Or, Oh, actually there's something here

01:00:47.400 that's genetic and we need to keep an eye on it, whatever. So that's why, that's why I'm going

01:00:51.880 because by the way, I'm the youngest person at the eye, when I went into the eye clinic,

01:00:55.740 which is gorgeous in Pasadena, it is a huge, it's a community college. It's on a beautiful

01:01:01.500 campus. It's like, this is a gorgeous campus. Doheny eye center. I took a picture because I

01:01:06.200 was like, this is unbelievable. And I go in there, everyone's 160. And there's me in there.

01:01:11.580 even so the technician I actually found this to be a little bit like maybe you shouldn't say that

01:01:15.640 because I told him I was nervous oh I didn't take a picture I thought I had and he goes he goes yeah

01:01:21.480 who likes being at the doctor or whatever and then he's taking the picture of my eyes and then he says

01:01:25.080 are you what what was the language he used like are you having symptoms like he asked me like

01:01:30.900 basically like is something wrong with your vision and I was like no I'm just getting a checkup and

01:01:35.620 he was like oh okay good and I was like but then here's what this anything a technician says in a

01:01:41.040 medical setting can be read so because i go well does he see something weird they're wondering why

01:01:45.280 the hell you're there kate it's like it's so obvious like you're like it's like in the same

01:01:55.840 way that i'm going something's missing here what's going on okay are you having symptoms 0.99

01:02:01.120 they're waiting for why the fuck you're in for that kind of appointment why someone's got an 0.97

01:02:05.860 instrument okay most people don't get checked i mean it's hysterical first of all because medical 0.98

01:02:10.400 as I go and then don't like the procedure and say, can we not? Can we not? I think I'm okay,

01:02:16.360 which, you know, great. I was relieved. I didn't have to go, but, but she, by the way,

01:02:19.900 I was laughing because I was like, I go in there, the nurse, she's like, so what's going on? I'm

01:02:23.740 like, well, nothing. I was like, I have distance glasses, reading glasses, but I don't need them,

01:02:27.820 need them. But yes, I wear glasses. Did you say I'm here because technically I'm freaked out

01:02:33.920 because then I said, so then I go, yes, I go my dad, you know, and then I kind of was like,

01:02:38.900 no one's giving me any sympathy the doctor too nothing i go how about a god that sounds hard 0.83

01:02:44.980 how about a holy shit i'm sorry you know how about a you know how about how about a hand to 0.99

01:02:50.320 the chest you fucking animals people are worried they were just they were they were too focused on 0.99

01:02:56.340 they're just staring at me yeah it was just staring like they were too focused on whether 0.99

01:03:00.680 or not you're up you're they're still trying to hunt for why does she think did there's still

01:03:06.840 I believe they're still asking why I should hear.

01:03:10.220 Totally, totally.

01:03:11.140 They're still searching, okay.

01:03:12.800 That's what's crazy is that the medical setting, nothing gives me more anxiety and nothing

01:03:16.760 makes me feel safer.

01:03:17.760 So much so that then last night I'm, you know, I'm in laundry looking at my childhood pediatrician

01:03:22.560 office going, oh my God, there it is.

01:03:24.840 I remember those are the toys I played with, right?

01:03:27.120 Loving it.

01:03:27.520 Yes.

01:03:28.080 So anyway, but I walk out so happy because I go, my optic nerve's okay.

01:03:33.220 And then I, but then I'm in this thing with my optometrist, a local optometrist in Silver Lake

01:03:38.060 lover, Cindy, shout out. And, uh, but I go to Warby Parker cause I want blue light blocking

01:03:44.580 glasses. Okay. And then I, and then they go, Warby Parker is like, well, we can give you an

01:03:48.960 eye test or they go, well, can we call in? We can get the blue light with your distance

01:03:53.760 prescription in these. I go, well, that's great. They go, well, let's call over your prescription.

01:03:58.460 I start to get, oh no, Cindy's going to think I'm being a traitor. Cause I get my glasses through

01:04:02.600 her small ma and pa shop optometrist suddenly warby parker's calling we need to get this

01:04:07.080 transferred over here yeah this is like this is um you know life uh life uh this is six feet under

01:04:12.480 the the big corporation calling this is um oh my god i can't think of cromer not cromer i know i'm

01:04:17.820 humiliated um yeah uh yeah no cromer cromer it's cromer yeah yeah so then yeah i'm selling a

01:04:25.420 cromer and then and then uh on the jet with the margaritas yeah and um best show ever made and

01:04:34.300 then so then i say to the woman at warby parker and she thinks i'm being i'm kooky at this point

01:04:38.820 because i go can you tell her that this is just a one-time thing that i'm just getting the warby

01:04:42.380 parker walkers and the she kind of laughs she's like oh i mean i'm sure it's fine this happens

01:04:46.920 all the time i go yeah yeah but you know it's a small mom pa shop she's gonna think i'm so then

01:04:50.500 the point is so i'm worried about she's gonna think i'm a traitor and then i get i get a text

01:04:55.940 from her and she's like hey where we parker just called like you're actually due for a new

01:04:58.920 eye test so that's what i go okay i need to get my vision because my vision is unfortunately

01:05:05.240 degrading not in a horrifying way but just meaning like yeah isn't that what it does

01:05:10.900 faces are a little blurry yeah like i'm looking across the room kind of swinting at a restaurant

01:05:15.000 who's that are they looking at me like i think it's i think it's also made me be rude a couple

01:05:18.580 times i don't recognize someone because they're across the room i see a shot i see like they're

01:05:23.600 pixelated as usual so to speak yeah they're pixelated and billboards like i i think i'm

01:05:29.940 anyway whatever the point is well i just had that moment where billboards i didn't hear it

01:05:35.840 you know okay i was like billboards bill i see billboards across the room i don't recognize him

01:05:41.980 he boards the airplane he goes it's me bill billboards

01:05:45.320 because this is actually relevant because distance your glasses are distance glasses

01:05:50.860 so are they only needed when what driving correct socializing movies seeing the play

01:05:55.560 no i wear them when i'm seeing plays when i'm seeing movies when i'm driving but not always

01:06:00.360 but driving at night for sure i like to make sure i have them i can drive without them see this is

01:06:04.760 what's interesting it's almost like not the blue light scenarios that you need to protect from

01:06:12.480 no these are blue light with prescription no i know i mean like okay you know like blue light

01:06:18.700 good and natural during the day you know at night you know the rhythm right sure circadian so

01:06:27.960 if your glasses that you're using while on your phone computer at home watching tv were blue

01:06:33.720 blue blocking never happening i only i never i right the blue blockers i was so why do you need

01:06:40.020 the it's almost like why do you need blue like protection in your distance glasses watching tv

01:06:45.340 in your distance glasses no no no that's a real oh my god she did it she did it you're right 0.98

01:06:52.020 fuck you're right if i'm watching tv which you're not doing blockers on or i'm scrolling on my phone 0.98

01:06:59.080 you're right they only need to be blue block it's kind of interesting too late no it's not too late 0.99

01:07:03.700 because i haven't done it yeah you start going you start going to the um the drive-in movie theater

01:07:08.800 to legitimize your purchase well by the way i've always wanted to do this i mean i've you know

01:07:15.960 drive two hours to well the the i well i'm gonna go in for the vision and because even yesterday

01:07:21.020 they did a little vision test like you know read the letters and i'm like i think i got them i think

01:07:25.540 i nailed them but you're afraid you cheated i'm like f-p-r-t-q i'm like was it was it a q or was

01:07:31.220 it an o huge question or was it an o yeah tell me now was it here's a huge question do they mix

01:07:38.160 those up so that different dentist i mean sorry different doctor's office different ones because

01:07:42.720 you can memorize in a second you can cheat absolutely your subconscious remember that's

01:07:46.700 what's so scary about so many medical tests because like i saw the the oh and i think i

01:07:50.980 see a hint at the bottom i go is it a q like there it is right i see a q no i just i saw an oh

01:07:57.200 i get a text i have covid okay okay let's skip ahead okay i see it no no you know i'm doing

01:08:09.920 whatever i pull up my text okay so i have covid sorry i missed i've missed a few texts from kate

01:08:16.600 right yeah i pick up my phone i have covid and then next text all caps i have covid so the two

01:08:23.860 so there's a there's a you know they're okay so it's like it's essentially hello yeah yeah right

01:08:30.340 yeah and then oh wait I don't have COVID okay or whatever right yeah now you know you had been

01:08:37.860 confused okay so here's what happened oh no and then regardless okay so okay it's a lot so then

01:08:43.440 you you share with me also your text exchange I'm gonna bring it back I just want to bring it back

01:08:47.700 Okay. And I asked like, how quickly between test results did both me and Naomi, the tribunal, and anyone else, I'm curious, get texted? The alerts, the announce, the, you sounded the bell, right? How quick did you sound the bell?

01:09:05.860 Very quickly.

01:09:06.660 To how many?

01:09:07.720 I would say I texted immediately, Naomi, you and my mom.

01:09:11.020 Nice.

01:09:11.440 I have COVID. Okay, so, wait, fuck, wait, I'm trying to find this because it really is. 0.99

01:09:16.520 i'm trying to find the original regardless okay wait covid 1.00

01:09:20.440 oh you're so funny okay what do you see okay you just you you are a wild wild woman

01:09:28.600 because there's a couple threads to i know it's confusing okay okay i have it i have it i have it

01:09:34.780 okay i have it so i say to you i have covid lowercase all caps i have covid and then oh my

01:09:41.000 god i read it wrong all caps i don't have it and then you said are you sure i said yes oh no that

01:09:46.460 I was, wait, so let me pause.

01:09:47.500 So it's confusing, okay.

01:09:48.860 Kate, so are you sure was a joke?

01:09:53.120 Okay, I go, this is funny, right?

01:09:55.280 Because you've got, I have COVID, I have COVID,

01:09:57.820 and then I don't have COVID.

01:09:58.780 I go, are you sure?

01:09:59.580 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:10:00.100 Okay, okay.

01:10:00.680 Because like, and you, I am sure.

01:10:03.440 The rapid test, I know.

01:10:04.580 You reading it straight is actually really funny.

01:10:06.760 You read it straight.

01:10:07.620 The rapid test was confusing.

01:10:09.000 It was a COVID.

01:10:09.440 So I'm looking, so I text my partner who just landed.

01:10:13.920 I have COVID.

01:10:14.560 I'm so sorry.

01:10:15.220 I don't know how to tell you this.

01:10:15.880 this right and then i start going but then i start going wait i go well there's no bottom line

01:10:20.940 the point is that the instructions are confusing for people like me who couldn't do standardized

01:10:25.820 tests who got such a low test on the sats that it was like broke the system yeah like they'd never

01:10:30.720 seen a score so low so i started seeing this i start panicking and i go well what so then i say

01:10:36.340 well it's confusing and then naomi god bless goes that's the control line so then i so then i see

01:10:43.640 actually even so so you i go send me what you saw because i wanted to diagnose too okay and i got

01:10:49.400 excited you're like it's confusing and i got excited to like play the game and i argue that

01:10:53.280 it is confusing and started to read no right and i i did i disempower you no no i said it's confusing

01:11:00.080 because you know some would argue the control shouldn't look just like another of five things

01:11:06.080 right yeah five letters one of them c and you're wondering if you have covid you know what i mean

01:11:09.500 So, because this was COVID and flu.

01:11:13.360 Yeah.

01:11:14.080 And I don't know if there's a third thing there.

01:11:15.260 No, just those two.

01:11:15.740 Okay.

01:11:16.500 And so I studied those pictures trying to understand, right?

01:11:20.800 And go, would I read this?

01:11:22.140 Whatever.

01:11:22.300 It's very confusing.

01:11:23.680 Now, you shared with me, because I wanted to investigate.

01:11:26.940 You shared with me immediately a text that you had sent, I think.

01:11:30.760 Naomi.

01:11:31.320 To Naomi or Naomi, whatever.

01:11:32.660 I forget who sent it, right?

01:11:34.100 Poor Naomi texted me.

01:11:35.580 Because I go, I don't have COVID.

01:11:36.600 Because the original was like, can you wait?

01:11:38.700 like are you like there was something naomi said that was like i don't understand they said i don't

01:11:42.960 understand what i'm being sent because i'm sending the pictures of the instructions and they said

01:11:47.000 please just figure it out i love you yes that's that's what was yeah that's that's what made you

01:11:51.120 laugh and they said kate one line is control yes and they said please just read the instructions

01:11:56.040 c means control okay and then i said i said regardless it's bad because i thought so so

01:12:05.740 let me, let me, let me, let me deliver this to the people. So Kate is Naomi's case. I have COVID

01:12:11.300 or maybe flu. Okay. Or something, right? Regardless, it's bad. Okay. Yeah. Is one of the funniest

01:12:16.500 things to me that I've ever read in my life. Yeah. Okay. It's like, I have COVID. Wait, no,

01:12:22.820 I don't. Wait, before I lose my audience here of witnessing my illness, this is bad. Okay. And

01:12:30.900 even to your own partner right yeah careful right like like regardless it's bad right so so it's

01:12:38.760 like don't for don't for a second anyone think i mean regardless it's bad is a commitment to having

01:12:45.540 well i thought because i was like oh if it's not yeah i just didn't understand unreal yeah

01:12:51.420 meanwhile meanwhile neither okay well then well then because then what happens and so then this

01:12:57.460 is why yeah so i had to act quick when i saw the funniest thing i've ever had and ran the canva to

01:13:02.180 make t-shirts all right we'll share these yeah okay front is i can't tell okay regardless is bad

01:13:08.480 i was screaming is a new you okay and i mean to me it's it's it's it's like it was the mushrooms

01:13:15.860 all the time regardless it's bad no no and then this and then there's a future and then what

01:13:20.960 happened was because this is something that so i sit there and i and i think i have covet right

01:13:25.320 i'm texting my mother i'm texting i go oh no and then i realize i don't have covid by the way when 0.62

01:13:32.840 i saw it i go control the sea lion i go oh no i have covid and i go i fucking knew it because

01:13:39.660 that's what this has to be that's the thing the speed okay because oh no i go i knew it two nights 0.73

01:13:45.460 before okay you were also doing the like the one time i don't wear a mask i don't wear a mask i

01:13:52.120 know so the drama the drama the the it's a play it's a it's a staged play okay it's a greek tragedy

01:13:59.560 of the one time okay you don't understand the context jacqueline i've worn a mask for two years

01:14:06.580 i know so that but then i realized i don't have it the freedom i feel the gratitude the joy i mean

01:14:13.680 that is a high unlike anything else anything else i go i have covet and then i go i don't have

01:14:17.860 covid and then i'm so happy now now that's the key word i write i'm so happy now which is exactly

01:14:26.300 the human right the the condition of hell i'm so happy now because happiness as we know right

01:14:34.920 is transient happiness is temporary that's why it's not something to be chased well because it 0.91

01:14:39.320 comes and it goes and it's fucking chase happiness yeah yeah bottom of the gin bottle that's where 0.95

01:14:44.880 it is for you. 0.99

01:14:45.720 So, so.

01:14:46.560 I'm so happy now.

01:14:50.380 That was POOG.

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01:14:54.180 please subscribe,

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Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - September 15, 2026

REMIX： The Body is Speaking

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