Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Souls and Goals and Roles

00:00:00.000 Hi guys, it's us. This is what you might call an ad, a little pre-roll in the jargon of the biz.

00:00:07.180 And we're here, yeah, to annoy you with an ad that isn't the content. Why? So we can remind

00:00:12.080 you of the importance, the honor, the glory, the humility of joining premium, becoming a premium

00:00:19.080 subscriber. When you show us with cash that you enjoy the show, we bring something to your life.

00:00:24.860 who the hell knows we're a community here as you know and as you very well know we are now we're

00:00:30.540 independent we do this all ourselves we are producing the show we have no suits we have no

00:00:36.380 big uh you know the headquarters they're gone it's just us we're the headquarters so every dollar

00:00:41.860 that you give us goes directly into the show you are a producer of the show when you become a

00:00:47.240 subscriber so enjoy this episode and please go to brilliantnovac.supercast.com and become a

00:00:54.180 subscriber. Two best friends, both alike in dignity, nurturing phantoms and courting the

00:01:01.480 muse. The hag divines when something must die. Yes, that was Poogh. But this is huge. The ego 1.00

00:01:07.520 loves to seek, but never to find. It was Berlant and Novak the whole time. You know what's strange

00:01:15.740 is I will not be submitting my face to the public today. By the way, hi. Hi. I come to you

00:01:24.540 with a new affliction. It starts with an R. It ends with an A. Rosacea. Oh, yeah. Apparently,

00:01:32.820 I've had that for years, they say. Really? Are you disappointed? Instantly. Anyway, go on.

00:01:38.940 but apparently i have rosacea no but i had yesterday itching about three days ago i noticed

00:01:47.320 some red bumps like under my eye not under my eye but like just a place where i've never seen any 0.72

00:01:53.540 texture issues at all and i was like what the fuck it must have been a real shock it was a real 0.99

00:01:59.000 shock and then yesterday redness itching on my fucking face like on the sides i was like damn 0.99

00:02:08.280 excuse me I texted Jacqueline I was I was on the way to a shoot I texted Jacqueline because I was 0.99

00:02:13.540 like I need by the way this is a public service announcement there is no such thing as non-drowsy

00:02:18.540 Benadryl I thought that there was that's a myth of the 80s or something they used to put caffeine

00:02:23.300 in it there's no such thing so I'm new to allergy world I go do I take Claritin do I take Allegra

00:02:28.920 to me those are I've always been confused about those too and so you know what's so strange so

00:02:32.460 my partner gets rosacea and they were like you know what and this is the horror of life they

00:02:38.400 were like yeah one day i woke up and i had it and i was like what like the idea that you just

00:02:45.720 wake up with a new affliction your life's never the same i mean and by the way it's you'd have to 0.54

00:02:51.860 like see me more close up to see and i i put some goddamn cortisone cream on my face but well the 0.86

00:02:58.360 joke is like it's not dramatic but it's it's there it's there and i'm devastated you know 0.91

00:03:06.000 it's you know it's interesting oh i wonder if the hypochloric whatever it is no hypochlorous

00:03:11.620 no hypochlorous spray the tower 28 i've been spraying so i've got that and then or prequel

00:03:16.380 and then some not to be a bitch but you know the prequel kind of stings to be honest but the 0.56

00:03:21.000 there's a sulfur sulfur bar of soap that i and apparently that's good and i have to say 0.93

00:03:28.180 sudsing up the bar of soap someone tell you about that instant yeah naomi knew about it

00:03:32.380 instantly took redness down i was like oh shit so i'm basically putting nothing on my skin today 0.93

00:03:37.820 i can't even wear sunscreen guess it'll be a hat for you so i've drawn the blinds or a what or a 0.78

00:03:42.860 sun smock or it won't even be out well you know what else so i apparently have this and um rosacea

00:03:49.440 yeah yeah and you know the cheeks and it's mostly the cheeks which i've i've really never minded

00:03:56.700 that much because it's like red cheeks takes care of yeah sure a christmas glow and because it's

00:04:04.180 sort of constant i don't experience it as you know like um it doesn't have the shaming quality

00:04:10.480 the internal shaming self-to-self of of the pimple or something where it's almost like

00:04:15.580 i mismanaged something and now there's a blemish right yeah it the constant is just sort of

00:04:22.700 but yeah i've gone and they go rosacea whatever and then um they prescribed me some sulfur

00:04:28.360 type thing okay the pharmacy didn't stock it was it a soap no it was a cream they're like

00:04:34.440 like we don't know why they would ever no one's prescribed that since 1920 you know and um i was

00:04:42.460 too lazy to you know i won't say lazy okay yeah have some respect i didn't have it in me to put

00:04:49.020 energy towards calling calling imagine see here's the problem it's like call your doctor you can't

00:04:56.460 okay no you can't you can call an office and have someone i'm going i need to go to a derm i need to

00:05:03.140 go to a and i was like there's got to be you don't go to urgent care for something like this but

00:05:06.940 there's got to be... Caperlant's in the ER for rosacea. I texted my doctor this morning. Honestly,

00:05:14.900 usually she's very fast. And that's fine. She's listening. I just said, you can't call your

00:05:19.020 doctor. Caperlant can. I can, yeah. And I'd like to figure out how she does. Now we go. I go, 1.00

00:05:24.440 good morning, 854. Good morning. I'm having a new affliction. Rosacea. Yay. So obviously,

00:05:31.120 I just want to stop, okay? Because this is like stars, you know, they're not just like us, right?

00:05:35.020 i know no this is how did you achieve this how did no how did you achieve having a texting

00:05:40.940 relation so this woman obviously thinks she's your friend i'm gonna tell you exactly how i

00:05:44.700 achieve this she is my friend so this is exactly how i achieve this congrats i'm a powerful

00:05:49.480 manifester i literally was like i want a primary care physician who's within my network who takes

00:05:55.480 my insurance who i can have a personal relationship with and i wrote this even in an interview she

00:06:03.280 just responded. She just responded. Do I hear what she said? Yeah. She said, hey girl, hey,

00:06:08.720 yay. Are you fucking serious? Yeah. Jesus. Oh, we got down. Yay, new affliction. I would see any 1.00

00:06:16.400 dermatologist at all. Rosacea can be tricky. Oh, can you send me a picture and are you in LA right 1.00

00:06:20.540 now? Okay, hold on. Next question. I'm sorry. I know right now it's about your rosacea for you.

00:06:25.800 For me, it's about having a doctor I can text, okay? I cannot tell you the level of emergency

00:06:30.540 I feel right now seeing what you have and I don't have no of course no listen unless I've wanted

00:06:36.580 this for years I'm going to tell you is she available no she literally took me on as a like

00:06:43.180 but you can you can have this I mean it's very it's very hard but why can't she also take me on

00:06:49.720 as a like you're saying like she took me on because like I worked her I seduced her no no

00:06:55.040 I mean I worked her and I seduced her but listen to what happened yeah I literally back to being

00:06:58.740 powerful manifester i remember i did an interview this was like you know it was a variety interview

00:07:03.720 for something and they were like what's the thing you want most in 2023 or whatever it was and i

00:07:09.000 said a primary care physician who i connect with within my network or something that you can find

00:07:13.840 it i want to say a month later i think you and i were at the same event it was like a night before

00:07:19.460 the emmys like kind of something where they had a ucla booth with physicians like they had a ucla

00:07:25.700 booth. And I go over there and I go, hi, hi, hi. And I don't know why I'm protecting her name,

00:07:31.440 but I'm going to for now. Was it the night before? Because isn't that a party?

00:07:34.660 Yeah, it was the night before a party.

00:07:35.640 Because guess what? Was this the year that, sorry, I was nominated?

00:07:39.560 I don't think so because I wasn't invited the year that you were.

00:07:42.280 So the point is, I'll make peace with it. I actually, now that I am so activated into

00:07:46.980 mycedarsinailink.com. Now that my-

00:07:51.180 no it takes a lifetime it takes a lifetime this is something that it forging forging their

00:07:56.220 relationship with the doc and by the way so i connected with her and she was like i'm gonna

00:07:59.560 help you find someone i do a phone call with her what are you looking for she goes okay you know

00:08:03.840 what i'm gonna get you in there's this woman she's hard to get into but i i talked to her

00:08:09.140 she'll take you on and then i'm like okay great and then we're having all this back and forth 0.97

00:08:13.760 and she goes you know what no i'm gonna take you on she goes i have she's a very small practice at

00:08:20.840 this point because she does like other stuff see that's the romance you go hi you know in so many

00:08:25.720 scenarios you know i'm not looking for a boyfriend i'm just looking for a little help how to find one

00:08:30.900 yeah you nice man i bet you've got great advice about a little girl like me can find a boyfriend

00:08:36.560 let me tell you some nice qualities and then he goes oh my god wait i'm the boyfriend no no it's 1.00

00:08:45.520 you i can help you out by the way keep that idea under your a matchmaker a male matchmaker a girl 1.00

00:08:52.240 looking for a boyfriend male matchmaker falls on with the matchmaker i think they did that they 0.92

00:08:55.840 just did it the opposite way wasn't that a movie the matchmaker with j-lo or something oh shit yeah 0.90

00:09:01.080 you're 100 right they've done it all well i'm one day into a journaling practice i guess you could 0.76

00:09:07.220 say by which i mean opening the journal fantastic taking the pen outside for that first burst of sun

00:09:13.400 you're supposed to get. I'm not putting SPF on for that. It's too much. I can't.

00:09:17.820 No, no, no. You can't do it. You can't do it.

00:09:19.460 It's just, it's not happening. So I go out, I sit there. You know what I've instituted for myself?

00:09:25.440 So I've realized that I have an altitude problem, which is, actually, it reminds me,

00:09:31.940 I should talk about my eustachian tube dysfunction. Never finished about that.

00:09:35.300 Oh my God. How's your throat?

00:09:36.920 Fine. Okay. Because they gave me this nasal spray twice a day and it's dried things up so that the-

00:09:42.640 medicine's amazing oh because i went in there the woman looked in my ears or we'll get back to

00:09:46.400 altitude after i went in there right the thermometer derailed us i wrote in they go i'm sorry we'll let

00:09:52.280 someone know that that happened and of course you know what are they gonna do send me a hundred 1.00

00:09:58.720 dollar amazon gift card i mean i mean there's no recourse other than me wait so woman comes in she

00:10:05.640 goes looks in my ears looks at my throat she goes looks at my throat goes oh yeah there's post nasal

00:10:10.400 drip okay i go really because like oh i look back there i don't see anything yeah i'm imagining

00:10:14.800 streaks of hell right it just looks gently gently moist back there which you'd assume is how it

00:10:20.900 should look anyway i'm like okay and then she looks in my ears she goes okay left ear first

00:10:28.820 that's not the side that it hurts on she goes okay i'm gonna tell you what's going on here

00:10:31.800 after i check your next ear goes over to the other ear goes yep okay yeah that one's angry

00:10:36.000 eustachian tube dysfunction she goes the ears i get so excited there's a term and i'm praying

00:10:45.020 she's a eustachian tube dysfunction i'm like yes and i'm like this better not be like whoa

00:10:50.420 like a real nothing that they've given a phrase to right you know like when they tell you you

00:10:56.440 have idiopathic anything which just means of unknown cause terrifying and then i know i've

00:11:04.020 told you this before but it rules because it's so horrifying iatrogenic means caused by the doctor

00:11:09.160 genic and iatra like pd iatrician god so they're like yeah um we have diagnosed you with um

00:11:17.780 iatrogenic uh wound to the throat you know like and you're like oh okay let me take that diagnosis 0.59

00:11:23.840 home doctor caused it doctor runs out realizing their nail gun was losing their pocket and they

00:11:30.600 got you so they injured you so you station tube dysfunction she goes yeah your eardrum is supposed

00:11:39.700 to be like this and it's sort of concave collapsed concave collapse you know like it's it's whatever

00:11:46.320 that yeah that's not so scary so you clear up the post nasal drip the inflammation blah blah

00:11:53.200 it'll calm down it's not a big deal do the thing it does it calms down it's fine something going

00:11:58.660 on on your computer yeah but keep going do you want to tell me about it yeah well she said you

00:12:03.460 need to be seen oh this is hysterically because you're like you're doing a thing it's almost

00:12:08.940 worth forensically i know you can't you're still focusing on the presentation at this moment

00:12:12.860 but you're doing a thing that almost forensically should be shown in video which is like you're

00:12:17.140 doing something else yeah and there's the pause after i finish speaking at the natural point where

00:12:21.340 you should respond and you're like kind of doing a quick replay i know i'm so sorry here's why

00:12:26.680 it's because it's funny it's isn't it funny how we do this we i know we think that we can get

00:12:31.480 through yeah no no no it's a disease of the times and i should have said i'm sorry i regret it i

00:12:36.420 should have said i'm so sorry pause but i have to because my schedule is so crazy today and i'm

00:12:41.260 leaving next week and i'm um and i was like i just need to respond to the doctor no i mean let's let's

00:12:47.740 get into it so i mean the other funny thing is rosacea is not an emergency it's not a medical

00:12:52.620 emergency but it's i'm actively itching like i'm physically uncomfortable yeah that sucks and this

00:12:57.840 is where i get mad at myself i go cod kate i've been supposed to do a blood test for allergies

00:13:02.040 for like two months and i've been putting it off right and then schedule it had to change it's a

00:13:06.020 nightmare quest diagnostics i mean they make it easy but i just mean i'm really overdue quest

00:13:11.860 diagnostics is a sponsor i know they should be a sponsor i mean quest you can pretty much you know

00:13:16.940 you can walk in right but you gotta have that paper you can walk in but you have to wait you

00:13:20.760 better have that paper oh no what paper like you gotta have the referral with the lab test oh yeah

00:13:25.440 yeah totally totally i was like oh i'm so on top of my health because i was gonna get i think i

00:13:29.480 talked about this and of course there's no story but just that i went to a ucla blood thing and it

00:13:34.480 was like 400 000 people in line it was like take a number to wait in the line turned on my heel and

00:13:39.460 i left you know this is just a note to sell for later because i want to write a 19 page essay

00:13:43.920 about it you know because the whole apologizing for things not being a story and then of course

00:13:49.000 I know I know I know through my life you know that's not a story it's such a laugh because

00:13:53.500 think about it when have you heard a good story in a conversation yeah totally oh I'm sorry it

00:13:57.220 wasn't a story you mean like yours that you told about you know like they're really wrapped up with

00:14:02.760 that I'm sorry it's not a story then the cashier said I'm the one with

00:14:08.200 well I think here's what it is it's the fact that we're actively recording a podcast

00:14:16.380 to beautiful listeners who are here to be entertained.

00:14:20.320 Oh, no, no.

00:14:20.840 But I still maintain that we offer.

00:14:23.200 And you're an artist.

00:14:24.260 You are the sieve.

00:14:26.660 You are the ocean, the bottom of the ocean.

00:14:29.560 They have that sieve that they scrape along,

00:14:33.460 and they find gold.

00:14:35.100 They find treasure down there, right?

00:14:37.700 Don't they?

00:14:38.460 Wait, like a comb?

00:14:41.060 Like they comb it?

00:14:41.980 Don't they comb it for treasure?

00:14:43.480 Yeah.

00:14:44.060 Like a hard steel?

00:14:45.760 No, no, no.

00:14:46.200 this is one of the most satisfying things i don't know if you ever saw a film called space balls

00:14:50.720 actually no mel brooks yeah so that's okay you know thank you i saw it and i'm of a time period

00:15:01.540 where i hadn't been conscious for the star wars you know franchise and so when i saw space balls

00:15:09.000 that was sort of my introduction to that world so it's it's like mel brooks kind of star wars

00:15:15.280 you know how he does those types of movies

00:15:18.300 so

00:15:18.640 I don't know why I was so resistant to just say spoof

00:15:22.160 it just felt too

00:15:24.200 spoof

00:15:25.080 I don't know

00:15:26.220 so

00:15:27.480 I'd like to talk about spoofs later as well

00:15:31.080 if you can remember that

00:15:32.280 spoofs in altitude

00:15:33.180 I was of a time period where then I saw

00:15:37.080 later on

00:15:37.880 see Star Wars

00:15:39.540 this is a rip off of Spaceballs

00:15:41.520 Spaceballs is the true

00:15:44.940 like introduction to that kind of interplanetary warring for me so point is there's like jokes

00:15:52.860 where they're like we got to find whoever you know comb the desert and then you see these giant

00:15:58.220 metal like combs dragging through the desert sand and it's exactly anyway the image you're

00:16:04.640 talking about i'm just imagining just a metal bottom of the ocean shovel dragging and the sand

00:16:11.220 sifting through it and then treasures and curiosities being caught. Is there anything

00:16:17.420 more satisfying? Fabulous. Anyway, I'm pretty excited because this could become kind of a

00:16:22.620 rosacea cast. Well, I can't wait for the listener to follow along my rosacea journey. With me. This

00:16:29.600 is what I'm saying. I can finally pick up and take seriously my own rosacea along with you.

00:16:34.980 Well, listen, everyone, and this should be going right into the ears.

00:16:37.940 rosacea products send them our way oh no i just realized rosacea is so common right

00:16:45.620 there's gonna be cartons of mail great great dear santa rosacea where this is

00:16:51.940 okay how about this well i have two people suffering from rosacea in my home

00:16:55.360 and also let's say guys don't reach out if uh if you know we don't need every rosacea

00:17:03.020 stuff for her to reach out we won't be able to save we want to give you a voice we won't be able

00:17:08.100 to save for the good stuff could start a you know community the rosacea years

00:17:14.080 and there were the rosacea years where it wasn't an accident everything all the branding was red

00:17:21.960 rosacea products the red period oh i know i know we go from blue to red for rosacea month

00:17:27.380 rosacea awareness month the itching around here is what's oh yeah look at that look

00:17:32.800 if you can try to not itch take a minute with this so yesterday right i'm on the way to a shoot 0.96

00:17:40.200 okay so i'm obviously extra conscious of my fucking skin and makeup artist putting on makeup 0.87

00:17:47.580 and she's the one that goes oh you know what i can actually feel she was she's like i can feel 0.98

00:17:51.900 the bumps and the texture i go yeah that's not my normal thing and then like 45 minutes she goes 0.91

00:17:57.160 you know what's starting to go down here on your neck where it wasn't before holy shit so that's 0.59

00:18:00.700 when I start to get nervous because I also know that I do have allergies that I am unaware of 0.94

00:18:04.860 that I again getting I'm getting the blood test on Monday folks but so sweet Jacqueline has boo

00:18:11.320 in her arms you're so lucky I'm not even just trying to show him off it's mostly because

00:18:15.160 he's like in a yelling wants attention kind of vibe and so I just feel like I got to scoop him

00:18:19.760 up to be quiet for the pod so insanely cute so but so I'm I'm worrying I'm not panicking I'm just 0.99

00:18:27.580 like, Oh fuck. I text Jacqueline allergist, you know, um, Jacqueline sends me really beautifully 0.98

00:18:34.420 thoughtful responses. And so then they, at the shoot I hadn't, they were like, do you have any

00:18:39.840 requests? You know, is there anything you want? And it's a short shoot. I was like, I don't need

00:18:43.340 anything. But then I go, you know what? I'll take allergy medicine. I go, is there a non-drowsy

00:18:49.040 Benadryl? And then, so then I get there and this guy greets me and kind of an, I'm sorry,

00:18:55.080 I would describe it as kind of in a rude tone is like, well, you look fine.

00:18:59.560 Like something kind of like that.

00:19:01.280 Like, like as if I was being so dramatic and being like, I'm having a,

00:19:05.800 it was this role you don't want to say.

00:19:07.640 Oh, like a PA.

00:19:08.560 Yeah.

00:19:09.280 Wow.

00:19:09.660 Or something.

00:19:10.160 I don't know.

00:19:10.600 I don't know.

00:19:11.920 But I, maybe if he's listening, which I'm sure he's not,

00:19:15.280 I was obviously extra sensitive because I do have a thing of, you know,

00:19:18.440 you don't want to be the diva.

00:19:19.840 I'm having a meltdown.

00:19:20.840 I'm making it about me.

00:19:21.680 I'm having red dots.

00:19:22.660 I need Benadryl.

00:19:23.420 but it's like imagine if I were having a headache I was like I need Advil you know it's like that

00:19:26.860 anyway he kind of was like I actually would argue even the first is the less selfish one

00:19:32.580 I mean not really but it's like one could affect the photos one could lead to additional work for 0.93

00:19:38.000 the the retouch artist I really don't want fucking rosacea right now my face is itching

00:19:43.220 it's like and I even him he's going calm down calm down because I truly like and it's really

00:19:50.240 not bad right now it's gone down from what I used should we go um metaphysical are you ready

00:19:54.880 yep irritation well I have an announcement which is that you've been in a state of agitation

00:20:02.960 irritation well here's the thing I do think stress brought it on but stress of a given nature 0.95

00:20:08.440 yeah like a certain like because because a woman yesterday at the shoot was like yeah a couple

00:20:13.880 things can bring it on like did you eat anything different you know did you eat anything different

00:20:16.820 did you put anything different no no she goes stress I was like yeah could it be that simple

00:20:22.320 new bedding did you wash it first could it be that simple yep trust me I thought of that too 0.95

00:20:29.060 yeah it's none of that shit I don't think because but if you can control yourself from scratch you 0.96

00:20:34.860 know the scratch creates more itch I'm not scratching I know better than to scratch my 0.99

00:20:39.400 face and to drag my fucking nails across my my one face what are you gonna do with your one and 0.99

00:20:45.300 wild face you're one wild and precious face one wild and precious face there is something about 0.99

00:20:56.500 the like people posting like you know about certain poets meaning a lot to them and you know

00:21:05.380 can you post about a poet meaning a lot to you without just it being um so about you it's not

00:21:12.260 even funny i would take it further can you post i just because i've been today's basically a month

00:21:18.200 of no instagram i repeat everyone a month of not looking once but i have to promote my london shows

00:21:23.480 london coming to you february 13th and 14th and i we're gonna be like practically on the road at

00:21:28.740 the same time in london no no okay okay just the road well i'm only gone for two days i spent all

00:21:33.860 of last year in london i know it's not the road i'm truly just going for two days but um but i

00:21:40.760 was like i have to post and i'm gonna do it i'm gonna not engage i'll post i'll post a hot pic

00:21:46.580 to remind people i exist as an actress in the field and then you know what i felt i was like 0.52

00:21:51.640 fuck i have a couple gorgeous christmas photos i'm like and i said to naomi i can't post christmas 0.82

00:21:56.640 right you can they go no oh they say pass the window which i understand can't you just blur 0.97

00:22:02.060 out the uh go black and white blur out the red and the green or mid-jan no no the whole point

00:22:06.880 is that it's Christmas. It's like the, you know, yeah, they're Christmas forward images, but that's

00:22:11.820 okay. Hi, it's us again, breaking in with an ad. We're here to encourage you and beg you to become

00:22:23.360 a paid subscriber to the show. When you pay $10 a month to listen to this show, you're going to get

00:22:29.340 a bonus episode every month. These are full video episodes that you can queue up and watch on your

00:22:36.720 little spotify tv situation app or you can straight up listen to your preferred way and that's a real

00:22:43.540 episode guys okay and sometimes it's a realer episode sometimes it's realer because we go well

00:22:48.360 this isn't for general public yeah we can really go deep we can we can tell secrets we can kind of

00:22:52.840 say things we wouldn't necessarily say on the public feed yeah we go this is bonus this is

00:22:57.280 behind a pay well these people care these people love and trust so we love and trust them that's

00:23:02.380 what ten dollars a month gets you or a hundred a year if you'd pay yearly there are things even

00:23:08.100 recently remember i remember i was i was getting a little personal recently on an episode i go

00:23:11.380 okay well this is definitely a bonus because i go this is subscribers only i can't have this

00:23:15.380 floating around sometimes we're recording you know what we'd call a regular episode

00:23:18.940 yeah and we go oh this is gonna have to go behind the hundred dollar a year or ten dollar a month

00:23:25.040 paywall because yeah no way this can go out for the free feeders okay these people have got one

00:23:30.560 foot in. I just cannot overemphasize that the bonus episodes, I mean, if you're not getting

00:23:36.160 those, are you really a listener of the show? I mean, that's one fifth. That's one fifth of the

00:23:42.740 show that you're not getting. So anyway, we'll let you go with that. But go to berlantnovac.supercast.com

00:23:49.860 or any of the links in the various places where the links exist.

00:24:01.160 Well, here's a question.

00:24:02.480 You know, people offer us services at times.

00:24:04.540 We don't always have time to take them in. 0.95

00:24:07.000 If you are a serious motherfucking photographer, okay, and you've got it all set up, whether 0.96

00:24:12.960 it's your own studio or- 0.99

00:24:14.400 And you don't want money.

00:24:15.660 Your best friend.

00:24:16.860 Okay.

00:24:18.140 I mean, I'd even pay.

00:24:19.820 It's like the search is the hardest part.

00:24:21.400 Of course.

00:24:22.540 I need photos and I need them now.

00:24:25.460 Yeah.

00:24:26.220 I can't take it anymore.

00:24:27.220 By the way, Jacqueline, you want so shocking?

00:24:29.260 The last time we took photos together was a year ago, over a year ago.

00:24:33.160 Isn't that sick?

00:24:33.860 Like, I'm talking about professional photos.

00:24:35.720 Well, actually, I have, we need some, we need some magazine.

00:24:39.840 We need some gloss.

00:24:41.540 And we need it fast because big things are ahead, folks.

00:24:44.560 But I wanted to tell you about my altitudinous key adjective on this podcast.

00:24:52.720 So I've combined a couple of self-help, different whatever things.

00:24:58.800 Okay.

00:24:59.240 This is what I've decided.

00:25:00.320 So mind flying around.

00:25:02.260 The problem is I'm flying from big issue, small issue, whatever.

00:25:07.100 So now here's how I'm orienting altitudinously in the morning.

00:25:11.440 Are you ready?

00:25:12.000 Okay.

00:25:12.280 So there's a thing from back in the day from Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

00:25:18.300 Oh, God.

00:25:18.960 No, it's good.

00:25:20.180 Okay.

00:25:20.780 It's very good.

00:25:22.500 Win-win.

00:25:23.420 You know, win-win?

00:25:24.340 Win-win?

00:25:25.220 Yeah, the phrase win-win.

00:25:26.240 Like, oh, it's a win-win.

00:25:27.020 Oh, wow.

00:25:27.920 It's a concept. 0.99

00:25:29.080 There she is.

00:25:29.680 Is it like from the 80s?

00:25:32.680 Well, he dropped in the 90s.

00:25:35.160 I'm pretty sure.

00:25:36.080 Okay.

00:25:36.820 Double check it.

00:25:37.740 I'm like, maybe it was just the first time I heard it, but I don't think so.

00:25:40.500 What are the seven habits?

00:25:42.100 Here are the ones that come to mind.

00:25:44.040 Keep the end in mind.

00:25:45.280 Okay.

00:25:46.420 I mean, I would argue the real end.

00:25:47.760 Death.

00:25:48.200 Well, it's a good one to keep in mind.

00:25:50.180 Yeah.

00:25:51.360 Here, I'll pull them up.

00:25:52.340 This is a word.

00:25:53.160 Okay, yeah.

00:25:53.760 Great.

00:25:53.920 You know, it's interesting to go what's stuck with me, but let me just.

00:25:56.080 yeah yeah yeah okay so this idea that private victory aka self-mastery precedes public victory

00:26:05.440 right so you know everyone's out there chasing public victory you know in terms of with other

00:26:13.180 people you know whatever master the self sure and in this he had this idea that really stuck with me

00:26:19.220 which was I think it was circle of influence and circle of concern okay and circle of influence

00:26:24.600 let's say it's like this a little circle and that's all the stuff that's within your control

00:26:29.400 your power to very little effect take action around right there's a wider circle which is 0.67

00:26:35.100 the circle of concern all the shit you don't feel you have power to control at this time but would 0.92

00:26:39.500 would like to right i want to be in a movie okay let's just say yeah you don't have control over 0.97

00:26:45.720 being in a movie but maybe you know that's in your circle of concern things are in consideration but

00:26:50.700 in your circle of influence i can uh put myself on tape for an audition i can right right you know

00:26:56.060 whatever right and the idea is that as you focus on the circle of influence and taking action in

00:27:01.800 there your circle of influence grows okay sure and as your circle of influence grows your circle

00:27:08.600 of concern can actually grow bigger i think people get it right but it's it's it's a nice reorienting

00:27:13.480 into what you can do and a satisfying idea that the map will grow at least that's how i took it

00:27:19.200 maybe so to say real quick here are the seven habits and i can give you what i know of them

00:27:23.660 you ready so the first three are about private victory be proactive begin with the end in mind

00:27:29.260 put first things first okay okay we'll get to what those are after and then public victory

00:27:35.500 think win-win seek first to understand oh yeah i forgot about this seek first to understand

00:27:42.180 then to be understood oh i've heard that yeah six synergize okay lol again though it's like 0.52

00:27:51.880 96 and he's introducing it that's how we know it's the 80s bitch all right and then finally

00:27:57.560 renewal okay is the seventh and that's sharpen the saw and i'll tell you what that means okay 0.61

00:28:03.680 oh so right so be proactive you choose your response focus on what you can influence that's

00:28:10.520 circle of influence right okay begin with the end in mind define your values and outcomes first

00:28:15.080 and act backwards from those so like i remember he had this um idea of people are wildly like

00:28:22.300 clawing on the ladder you know to get up the ladder but all to realize they had the ladder

00:28:28.300 leaned up against you know a building they don't care about so start with the end and then work

00:28:33.160 back to what your ladder is on you know i see so put first things first prioritize what matters

00:28:38.880 most not what's loudest family family yeah so this is this um quadrant this like axis

00:28:47.000 of and i know you're like eyes will cross at that but just stay with it quadrant okay so there's

00:28:55.040 urgent and non-urgent right okay i have trouble with those differentiating those and then there's

00:29:00.280 important and not important okay have trouble differentiating those yeah important not important

00:29:06.100 urgent, not urgent. So putting out fires. Oh, I've been putting out fires some day.

00:29:12.680 You can imagine urgent, important. Okay. Someone collapses, everything else goes and you

00:29:18.860 immediately tend to that, right? Sure. Rosacea. Okay. Okay. Urgent, not important. No, no.

00:29:27.520 Get ready for that. Right. Urgent, not important is like, you know, the ice cream man. The doorbell's 0.94

00:29:33.260 ringing yeah probably like every single alert coming in your phone you know and like this was

00:29:38.180 like he wrote this in the 90s so it's like okay but it's like they were so free urgent non-important

00:29:43.380 is just all the shit that's constantly taking your attention but it's right now like hi can

00:29:48.360 you look at this and it might be in no way serving the you know your mission anyone else's whatever 0.98

00:29:54.960 so important urgent we understand yes take your lover to the hospital right okay you ready so

00:30:00.900 basically the one that gets ignored important non-urgent so that's just you know reading yeah

00:30:07.760 tending to my mind yeah or any um project or goal that is long term long term yeah got it

00:30:18.220 and i believe that's quadrant two the nobel peace prize okay i believe that's quadrant two

00:30:24.020 now a pulitzer that's quadrant two so i remember like sometimes like i've become like i remember

00:30:31.100 like i like went on like a sticker thing and a t-shirt thing and like made a t-shirt that said

00:30:35.040 i'd rather be in quadrant two it was part of my like i'm gonna like i always want micro micro

00:30:43.220 hyper specific merch out there for the people yeah i also made one for my cat when she was

00:30:48.220 getting subcutaneous fluids for a kid chronic kidney disease because there was like this little

00:30:53.400 shirt for cats you know and small pets you could customize and to put a little pad on her after the

00:30:59.940 injection like because it would leak a little bit of the water the saline that you just like put

00:31:05.440 into them I would like want something to hold it like hold the little like thing on there so like

00:31:12.120 a little t-shirt okay on the cat and then I so then I customized one put it online it was like

00:31:17.540 put it online that's what I'm saying like I go on these things like I can make it for myself but

00:31:22.080 then you can also publish it like anyone could buy it and search it in like you know one of these

00:31:25.720 sites like zazzle or something right yeah so like someone out there wants the quadrant two sticker

00:31:30.240 and then this one was a little t-shirt for the cat but wait i want to make sure i understand

00:31:33.940 did you put the shirt online that's my question i don't understand oh my god that's amazing i mean

00:31:41.360 it's probably still there there was a point where like i used to just like i would take enthusiasm

00:31:46.580 for some idea and just put it on a sticker and i could go hunting like other things like that

00:31:52.800 or like when i read run with the wolves i found this like baba yaga like illustration from you

00:31:58.560 know the 1400s in the public domain and i wanted to be reminded of the the tale so i want a little

00:32:04.100 picture printed out and i'm like there's other people do too might as well just like throw this

00:32:07.780 in be like to remind you like sure someone bought it that's amazing like a framed like i've just

00:32:14.800 made it easy for someone wow i mean i recognize this is like you know i'm sharing this because

00:32:20.920 it's like humiliating strange bizarre no it's your merch stand merch cart i still want to

00:32:27.780 understand what quadrant two is oh yeah so um you have to carve out time for important non-urgent

00:32:33.220 or you have to shut the door from all the urgent you know non-important and say i shall not be 0.96

00:32:39.560 bothered between these hours okay guess what i'm about to buy this fucking book okay good 0.97

00:32:43.680 no it's very good okay so that's part of put first things first so think win-win is looking 0.98

00:32:50.300 for mutual benefit you don't want lose win and you don't want win-lose you know you don't want

00:32:54.460 i win you lose and you don't want you know i lose you win just like try for win-win that's why i

00:33:01.200 think he might have come up with it seek first to understand then to be understood that i don't feel

00:33:07.360 like digging around for it but it's pretty significant particularly as someone who feels

00:33:11.740 chronically misunderstood yeah yeah of course to understand it's not a bad bad thing synergizes

00:33:18.240 leveraging differences creating better and i'm just reading some summary but you might want to

00:33:22.900 check it out and then renewal and this was kind of interesting is sharpen saw and that's continuous

00:33:28.380 renewal that's the ongoing so that's physical mental emotional spiritual it's like okay it's

00:33:34.040 the ongoing maintenance of the stuff that matter it's learning it's you know but one of the things

00:33:38.780 that i got from him somewhere in the book probably inside of the put first things first is like you

00:33:44.420 know looking at things from 10 000 feet 20 000 feet view 10 000 feet view you know down right

00:33:49.120 you're down on the ground with your ladder leaned up against the wrong building with your eye on the

00:33:54.880 next rung right so and i think part of that and i always thought this was pretty good and i this is

00:34:03.900 where i was headed with you with what i did in my journal so it's like sorry just like the the words

00:34:08.500 pass through my mind comedy wellness podcast you know and then it's like it's just me like

00:34:13.500 sincerely taking you through seven habits seven habits no it's incredible so roles and goals

00:34:20.340 okay roles and goals roles and goals so not to be infused with rolled gold rg on the bottom of

00:34:28.840 a piece of jewelry all right okay or rolled gold the pretzel company or rolls gold the color of 0.98

00:34:38.860 gold all right so rolls goals you identify your roles you know i am a mother professional cunt 1.00

00:34:48.020 i am a doctor i am a wait what'd you say i'm a cunt i said professional cunt yeah okay you go 0.99

00:34:56.660 you identify the roles that that you value okay and you list them out it might be i am a you know 0.99

00:35:04.840 like domestic goddess or whatever a keeper of house you know like guess what the doctor's

00:35:09.920 calling do you want me to take it on air sure do hello hi this is kate hi this is kate hi kate

00:35:17.140 my name is jolanda i'm calling from burbank dermatology how are you good thank you so much

00:35:21.520 for calling me so quickly okay hi are you how local are you um i'm quite local i mean i would

00:35:29.020 say i'm like a 15 you know minute drive that's local i have some time constraints today i have

00:35:38.720 more availability next week but let me know okay um okay perfect that works better let me see what

00:35:43.860 are you available tuesday at 9 15 yes perfect and what are we gonna see you for i just um have

00:35:52.920 like suddenly what i think is rosacea like from yesterday just a new kind of skin flare up where

00:35:58.240 i have like itchy redness bumps and it's spreading where is it um so it was like kind of on my face

00:36:06.140 like a and it's not like shocking and extreme or anything but yesterday it's kind of traveled a bit

00:36:11.920 down to my neck and that i'd say the itchiness is mostly like around my ears and on my jawline

00:36:17.440 okay but i've never had this before yeah and a couple days ago i noticed some

00:36:23.540 kind of strange bumpy skin texture that's unusual oh okay okay so i've gone ahead and scheduled you

00:36:31.240 uh for tuesday at 9 15 and that's here in burbank um okay great tuesday at 9 15

00:36:38.580 Okay, perfect.

00:36:39.300 Thank you so much.

00:36:40.880 Okay, have a great weekend.

00:36:42.420 You too.

00:36:42.860 Bye.

00:36:43.260 Bye.

00:36:44.420 Thank you so much, Jacqueline.

00:36:46.300 Thank you so much.

00:36:47.820 If you would ever consider having me back as a co-anchor.

00:36:51.760 Who, me?

00:36:52.540 I'm back.

00:36:53.500 And now my business is done.

00:36:54.840 God, imagine us doing the morning news.

00:36:57.040 Good morning, everyone.

00:36:58.380 What if we moved to a city and did morning news for one year?

00:37:02.960 You telling me we wouldn't learn, we wouldn't grow?

00:37:05.540 Local news?

00:37:06.380 I know we would grow.

00:37:07.720 oh we learn a lot it is a question do we move to a small town it is an interesting thing because

00:37:14.440 it's like the moving to a small town i think you fancy yourself um you know the star of a television

00:37:20.880 show on the hallmark network right so if you move to a small town it's like you're like this is

00:37:25.580 literally all about me like i think that's like a risk for anyone moving to a small town

00:37:29.000 yeah and then everyone is perceived as a character like yeah that you're running into it's a risk

00:37:35.460 you imagine how the people feel you can't do it um so roles and goals so you you identify all the 0.97

00:37:43.060 roles in your life that you care about and i'm a bitch i'm a lover no but you go you know you 0.62

00:37:48.720 really you really do it right like let's just say i'm an artist right i kind of think that's a 0.83

00:37:53.880 separate role that needs to be carved out from essentially the commissioned artist which is like

00:37:59.480 the shit that's due that's contracted like someone's paying for this because like i could 0.92

00:38:04.760 be an artist all day and not get my book in you know yeah of course um and then trying to make it 0.98

00:38:11.300 sort of attractive makes sense like literally like the working artist or the contracted you

00:38:15.960 know the commissioned artist whatever i have a commission for a huge mural downtown can you

00:38:20.420 imagine you know the house right it's like making the house a place i want to be is that urgent or

00:38:25.460 important well i think well inside of the role right so inside of the role of a house um manager

00:38:32.820 or whatever right there would be different tasks just love being like comedian actress writer house

00:38:41.340 manager exactly jacqueline novak no like daughter you know or family member yeah okay i am a doctor

00:38:49.300 or you know i'm a member of whatever family friend okay partner you know maybe these are

00:38:55.780 all separate roles you know neighbor pet guardian okay you get them all down and i think you mean

00:39:02.040 cat mom you know listeners may know i've always felt more like actually depends i've never really

00:39:09.980 felt like their mom yeah yeah totally i mean and snoozer blossom you know the cat that i had from

00:39:14.540 like eight till that i was lucky enough to meet and no i don't know you know she was 23 years old 0.99

00:39:19.820 the idea that like she was my child is such a laugh when she was like the wisest sage elderly

00:39:27.000 yeah like maggie smith-esque yeah freaking giving tree you know yeah so point is do the roles and

00:39:37.620 then once you've really gotten all those down then you go what are the goals within those roles okay

00:39:44.620 yeah and you go as a mother okay as a you know whatever as a friend okay well i want to make

00:39:56.080 sure that i connect with kate outside of just the podcast okay hey yeah keep the end in mind me and

00:40:04.180 kate have time that's not just for them right whatever all the different goals you know then

00:40:09.280 you get down to your projects and your tasks and whoever and at that point that's when i say run

00:40:13.400 from stephen covey over to david allen and getting things done or something okay yeah yeah i manage

00:40:17.900 the ladder but so i recently took this and i go oh and then i take the spiritual and i go carolyn

00:40:23.820 mace and i go you know listen to our audio programs which you still haven't done and you need

00:40:28.480 to the audio is unreal which ones please tell me which ones i have to check i need a cheat sheet

00:40:36.420 you should start with it like one of the two hour ones it's like self-esteem or something okay because

00:40:41.220 she's doing on a soul level it's not what it sounds like yeah right i mean i sat in parking

00:40:45.920 lots listening to her like you know while i was still living at my parents house like she almost

00:40:50.480 says soul like with two syllables i've probably shared this before but she's like you know

00:40:53.700 relationship with your soul she's like a lot of people don't even acknowledge that they have a

00:40:59.440 soul yeah it's true you know develop a relationship with your soul and then it's all this teresa

00:41:04.920 of avila your interior castle yeah because teresa of avila said the soul is an interior castle

00:41:11.500 with seven mansions well this is a you know obviously totally union it's all about the soul

00:41:17.080 seven mansions and teresa it's like pull up the drawbridge of your interior castle oh yeah yeah

00:41:23.300 the silk bag yeah oh yeah well that's a different one but yes that's a good one too so yeah totally

00:41:30.600 it being a castle with rooms where you can go and you sit in those individual rooms and reflect on

00:41:36.400 certain things so in entering the castle she goes through the seven mansions she takes you through

00:41:41.300 in the book and in the audio and you go into yours and she describes it like create this room this is

00:41:47.740 your first mansion and the first mansion is where we look at how shame has affected whatever okay

00:41:54.740 literally it's you sit across from your soul you sit there you have the conversation you can come

00:41:58.800 back to this room as needed oh i need this i need this i know this is entering the castle yeah

00:42:04.060 it's unbelievable yeah okay let me guess there's an audiobook you know and and you're moving and

00:42:13.140 you're moving and you know you're getting closer and closer and theresa you know like this is her

00:42:18.580 based on theresa's spiritual masterpiece the interior castle handbook for nuns but the book's

00:42:25.100 called entering the castle and this one's entering the castle carolyn mace i'm pronouncing it that

00:42:29.820 way it is spelled m-y-s-s and like everyone should know that it is available and if we ever want to 0.90

00:42:35.360 be serious we get caroline mace on the podcast for seven episodes are you fucking serious i mean 0.73

00:42:40.000 it's its own series but can you imagine you will scream for her she is laugh out loud oh i've seen 0.88

00:42:48.420 videos i know i know i forgot right right so yeah entering the castle is a whole journey point is

00:42:54.840 i'm going all right where's that piece of this i need to go higher up than 20k so here's what i've

00:42:59.360 got my journal right now you ready in the morning when i wake up and the mind is flying and i come

00:43:04.380 running panicked to facebook marketplace or some other wild action yeah of chaos okay where it's

00:43:12.000 facebook marketplace to god to back to facebook marketplace i pulled the journal and i'm writing

00:43:16.020 down literally soul okay i'm orienting first in my soul that i have when i you know m1 and then

00:43:24.520 i move down to roles so i'm literally going soul role goal okay okay yeah and then another

00:43:31.660 sort of way i'm gonna create my own language around it hopefully but in roles it's a little

00:43:36.640 bit archetypal right yeah you know how am i animating the lover today you know whatever yeah

00:43:43.160 yeah but i am insisting on living in a hierarchy and knowing where i am yeah sounds comforting

00:43:51.040 because zipping up and down and all around and not knowing and being down here suspicious that

00:43:56.520 the thing further up is getting like lost and missed it's a completist i'm a completist you

00:44:01.720 do a roll a day today i'm a daughter totally totally totally sweetie me me from the from the

00:44:11.020 stage okay but yes you could decide like some people might hit all of them in a day some people

00:44:18.140 might go i'm a daughter on the weekends okay you know etc right some people probably you know i'm

00:44:24.600 a soul i'm a soul on sunday you know i think i need to touch in well you know what's funny yeah

00:44:32.380 you know because i was like okay new year where's my my weekly planner but we got for free from the

00:44:38.460 new yorker due to headlining the festival thank you this desk yeah i go i guess i just use this

00:44:44.260 instead of buying a new one because when i got this this is a nice hardback it is hardback it's

00:44:49.100 strong now my only concern yeah it's very new yorker for obvious reasons right i know there's

00:44:57.760 new yorker cartoons it's a little bit like i was going to give it to my mother you know for me

00:45:02.760 does it anchor you too much in the new yorker as your entire life yeah yeah i know like your life

00:45:12.400 in that font well i you know me it was more just like i know my life in the font well the font's

00:45:16.880 almost helpful of like i'm an intellectual i'm getting things done i'm a big city slicker no

00:45:21.060 yeah exactly it's like it's a prison and a doorway right yeah yeah because you could absolutely feel

00:45:28.240 like i've wondered maybe that's what i want maybe i want to live the year like i feel like i'm

00:45:34.080 inside of a new yorker article yeah yeah or you know i always default to like i always go no i

00:45:41.100 want custom i want custom and that's why i run to the hobonichi and i start customizing yeah soul

00:45:47.600 goal roles goals and then i guess projects

00:45:52.700 and routines sharpening the saw hierarchy sharpening this up maybe that's my plan for the

00:46:01.920 year know where i am in the hierarchy know the hierarchy revisit daily last year make peace with

00:46:07.680 finite time did i well it flew yeah this year altitudinous awareness this year my main goal 0.96

00:46:14.940 is to stay off my phone as much as possible smart you know what i did people be like holy shit so

00:46:21.500 you know i'm on the iphone there's like shortcuts and you're thinking oh what is that for hackers

00:46:26.240 no okay it's actually pretty easy all right point is i set up a shortcut where when i open instagram

00:46:32.620 it instantly opens this other note-taking app basically like sending me over there instead

00:46:39.880 and i have to like get around it if i want to get an instagram so i'll let everyone know how that

00:46:45.480 goes instagram because i've been off for a month i'm getting emails to go you're missing things 0.97

00:46:50.200 you have 20 unread messages i turned all that shit off you can turn all that shit off yeah yeah 0.88

00:46:55.020 i'm sure i'm sure it's really the answer i can't believe and now i know when i go back to post 0.99

00:46:59.560 they're going to punish me. They're going to shadow ban me. So it always happens when I take

00:47:02.880 a big break. Really? They go, oh, sweetie, you're not using us just for promotion. Oh yeah. Every

00:47:07.660 time I go off for a while and then I go back, like I'm going to go back to go like, please buy

00:47:11.280 tickets to my show, whatever. They go, no, we want eight hours a day. And when you log eight hours,

00:47:18.860 then we'll show your little ticket sale post. But unless you're logging, we're not here like that.

00:47:25.360 we don't support you that way as naomi said once we woke up it was like good morning computer slave

00:47:32.160 like the way that i've been living is that i know well i have been um last two days

00:47:40.000 leaving the phone when i go down for the coffee and the sit outside with the journal

00:47:44.780 and multiple times during that first period i go i have the instinct which is if i have my phone

00:47:52.180 let me just actually quickly see if there is on facebook marketplace okay the cabinet that would

00:47:56.380 make it so i'm not looking at those shoes right now right yeah or you know we should really do

00:48:00.800 such and such for poog go to text kate right but don't have the phone yeah it's like 19 things i

00:48:06.860 would have taken action on on the phone that would have led to other things and that ain't no way to

00:48:10.940 start a day no we must battle for our own interiority kate we must no no i'm with you

00:48:18.300 completely i i last night fell asleep reading because of the return to fiction yes it has been

00:48:24.140 huge and that's all falling asleep to reading is heaven i literally went ah like ecstasy like i was

00:48:31.040 reading and then maybe four pages and i was like oh i feel it it's happening yeah do you ever do

00:48:37.720 what i do read with one eye when you get to have you tried my technique oh it's happened yeah it's

00:48:42.560 happened you can't hold them both open so you have to divert energy to one i felt myself pushing to

00:48:48.060 keep reading yeah because i love the book so much but i was like no no because i almost feel like

00:48:52.120 if you panic and go it's happening and then try you'll lose it so you almost have to keep up the

00:48:56.920 pushing to stay awake and let the wink and blink and a nod push upon you and then let it win

00:49:01.280 totally like it wasn't your idea totally this has been explosive

00:49:04.860 luckily i think my um my continuous distraction due to my rosacea emergency and apologize again

00:49:13.120 watching boo give himself a bath by the way if you can hold the not even the eye gaze but if you

00:49:18.620 can just find a cat and keep your gaze on it for try 30 seconds oh i know it's so healing you will

00:49:24.880 you almost have to look away like like it's too powerful it is when they look right in it's

00:49:29.120 incredible it's really it's healthy to have around it overwhelms the system everyone urge you i urge 0.99

00:49:36.280 you to go to the shelter i don't want to hear the shit about fucking litter being gross when you have 0.99

00:49:42.200 a dog you take a little plastic bag you reach down and with your own fingers you feel the warmth 1.00

00:49:47.380 of shit okay i know yes there's plastic but you feel shit with your fingers it's true and you 0.99

00:49:53.520 deal with that it's true versus litter box they go in it every freaking time you scoop it with a 1.00

00:49:58.700 shovel with a sieve it rules your life will improve with a cat i know i believe you product

00:50:07.640 corner. We forgot. Never could. See you in product corner. I love you. Love you.

00:50:37.640 Thank you.

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - January 27, 2026

Souls and Goals and Roles

Episode Stats

Transcript