Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - September 21, 2021


The Story is Jackfruit

Poogstellar The Nut Man

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 1 minute

Words per minute

192.78

Word count

11,771

Sentence count

457

Harmful content

Misogyny

10

sentences flagged

Toxicity

83

sentences flagged

Hate speech

41

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.
00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.
00:00:04.420 This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.
00:00:08.020 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune.
00:00:11.960 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.
00:00:15.780 No, I am not your guru.
00:00:19.420 Back then, I lied to everybody.
00:00:21.720 They have had this case for 30 years.
00:00:24.660 I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.
00:00:27.320 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:57.320 Chase Matthew, listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app,
00:01:00.880 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:01:04.060 If you're from the Bay and grew up on the JV Show,
00:01:06.800 then you know Wild 94.9 runs deep in your DNA.
00:01:10.060 Yeah, Wild 94.9 has been the Bay's number one hit music station for years.
00:01:14.260 And every morning we're bringing you the biggest hits, laughs.
00:01:17.300 We've got the biggest giveaways, the day's top headlines,
00:01:20.140 and everything trending in the Bay to start your day.
00:01:22.340 It's all on the JV Show weekday mornings on Wild 94.9.
00:01:25.300 And if you're busy in the morning, you can catch the JV Show podcast anytime, anywhere.
00:01:29.180 Just save Wild 94.9 and the JV Show podcast as your top iHeartRadio preset.
00:01:34.840 Hi, I'm Kate Berlant.
00:01:36.300 I'm Jacqueline Novak.
00:01:37.400 And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends.
00:01:42.140 Two untameable intellects.
00:01:43.900 This is our hobby. 0.93
00:01:44.760 This is our hell.
00:01:45.620 This is our naked desire for free products.
00:01:47.880 This is POOG.
00:01:49.320 Today's topic, loosely speaking, sucralose, freedom, the cheese course.
00:01:55.300 Jacqueline Novak here just to give a warning to the Pooh listeners audio from
00:02:00.040 my end this week you'll notice something's different yet we don't want
00:02:04.420 to rob you of the notions so you're getting it as is I mean a conversation
00:02:09.640 can't happen the same way twice and so Kate's audio will be glorious and mine
00:02:13.840 less so and there you have it folks welcome back folks can't remember when
00:02:18.160 we when we threatened you with a hiatus so we're like we should take a few weeks
00:02:22.300 off just to regroup and it was so sweet getting a text from you five days later i miss poog you
00:02:27.980 know and i too we missed it we need it also just the fear of the numbers plummeting well yeah
00:02:34.580 people move on people move on downloads um wait for no man i know that's what they say they keep
00:02:43.180 you people keep it moving although there have been i have experienced some really nice poog
00:02:48.900 tag support on tour i gotta say so sweet i saw somebody came somebody thought that i was there
00:02:54.480 i didn't even send you this somebody dm'd me and was like i saw you in your denim bucket hat
00:02:59.720 trying not to get recognized wait where what town a boston someone thought that i was at your boston
00:03:05.840 show with a hat on that is as if i would ever come to a show with anything less but the desire
00:03:10.840 to be fully carried out on people's shoulders right as though you would do that i didn't get
00:03:16.560 to this business to avoid attention folks oh my god right right and if you were doing please i'm
00:03:22.720 here with my daughter can i just live yeah please trying to feed my daughter is the best i'm just
00:03:28.100 trying to feed my family can you imagine me at your show somebody comes up to me sorry i'm just
00:03:31.700 here for can we not do this here i'm here like literally you're at my show like you're like 1.00
00:03:39.100 it's everything that like a poog hag like you know like it would be really cozy and sweet and 1.00
00:03:44.340 You were just like a, you were a bitch. 1.00
00:03:46.740 I mean, praying for recognition every day. 1.00
00:03:49.740 Every morning I wake up with a prayer for recognition.
00:03:52.860 But do you feel good if someone recognizes you from a film or something?
00:03:58.560 Uh, what do you think?
00:04:02.020 I know, I just wanted to hear you say it.
00:04:04.920 Are you one of these actors who doesn't watch themselves?
00:04:07.500 It's the ultimate drug, baby.
00:04:09.500 It's the ultimate drug.
00:04:10.260 Oh my God, is it?
00:04:11.860 To be seen?
00:04:12.860 Oh my God.
00:04:13.900 to be seen
00:04:14.760 to be loved
00:04:15.120 is there any fear
00:04:15.720 do you ever go
00:04:17.840 I don't know
00:04:19.860 never once
00:04:20.980 what did I
00:04:24.320 hide
00:04:25.120 there's so
00:04:25.760 it honestly does feel
00:04:27.340 like
00:04:28.740 there's a backlog baby
00:04:31.320 there's a backlog baby
00:04:32.820 oh sorry
00:04:33.320 I moved on
00:04:34.280 I moved on to
00:04:35.320 here we are
00:04:36.200 season two
00:04:36.960 as they say
00:04:37.500 season two
00:04:37.720 can you believe it
00:04:38.620 season one
00:04:39.600 was great
00:04:41.580 just cracked open
00:04:42.660 a Celsius
00:04:43.180 You've got your Celsius. 0.98
00:04:44.400 Damn, I should have cracked up one of my sound teas. 0.99
00:04:47.260 Ooh. 0.99
00:04:47.980 Okay, this is unbelievable.
00:04:50.280 Jacqueline and I, having never spoken about it.
00:04:52.780 So weird.
00:04:53.640 So I was turned on to Celsius by somebody I used to exercise with.
00:04:59.460 And she was like, oh, Celsius.
00:05:01.440 And I was like, what's that?
00:05:02.380 I picked one up at a health food store.
00:05:04.680 Interesting, health food store.
00:05:06.160 Interesting, yeah.
00:05:06.820 Downed it.
00:05:07.400 For whatever reason, did it make me high or something?
00:05:11.000 No.
00:05:11.400 i don't know if i feel the energy like i've never been a red bull person right um i mean i once went
00:05:16.840 to visit my call my cousin in boulder colorado and i just remember the bartender hosing us down
00:05:23.200 with red bull like out of like people it was like the era of red bull yeah and i just remember the
00:05:28.740 the guy like hosing down the crowd like with red bull like spraying it and i was like we're not
00:05:34.340 you know we're not in kansas anymore i wonder how much i wonder how much red bull paid
00:05:40.300 no but like for that moment yeah yeah like the idea of
00:05:44.560 i don't know like yeah i don't think they paid but but the fact that like maybe they did you
00:05:54.800 know like i want to acknowledge it could be an imagined memory i just want to say it could be
00:05:59.260 a fabric memory but i think it's real no and i don't even care like because i to me it's like
00:06:04.020 i still want to explore the concept like i'm not saying red bull did pay okay yeah but i am
00:06:08.320 imagining like it was very funny if red bull sort of red bull like sent out to different bars like
00:06:14.220 a little sticker that they could put on the thing that you spray with you know like the little like
00:06:18.380 gun the hose yeah the hose and then like which by the way like the way bartenders you know
00:06:23.160 appropriately wield that thing okay like like it's the ultimate like there's something you know
00:06:29.540 talking about the casual use of like when they're just like when they're just like oh my god bartending
00:06:35.880 Listen, I used to climb behind the bar, cake shop, Lower East Side, New York City.
00:06:40.220 Yes, yes, of course.
00:06:41.080 Shout out to the end of time.
00:06:42.300 People screamed for you.
00:06:43.040 And I used to jump behind the bar, serve drinks.
00:06:48.840 Unbelievable.
00:06:49.640 The power?
00:06:49.760 The feeling of, oh my God, the beer on tap.
00:06:51.940 Filling up someone's pint and then kind of the nod to someone else.
00:06:55.160 What do you want?
00:06:55.580 What can I get you?
00:06:56.500 Oh, wow.
00:06:57.520 That was where my subjectivity fully came into force.
00:07:01.200 In that moment, I didn't need power.
00:07:04.560 I didn't need sex.
00:07:05.300 I didn't need recognition.
00:07:07.040 I just needed the person staring at you.
00:07:09.320 I just need the person staring at me needing. 1.00
00:07:11.480 I have what they need and it's on my time, bitch. 1.00
00:07:14.400 And all you have to do. 0.99
00:07:16.660 Okay, the nod, the nod you did will have to go on Instagram or something because it's so specific.
00:07:22.940 Because it's like they're looking at you.
00:07:25.540 Oh, wow.
00:07:26.680 They're looking at you.
00:07:27.620 Oh, the tap.
00:07:29.200 I'm filling up the tap.
00:07:30.460 Yeah.
00:07:30.720 Okay.
00:07:31.160 The tap.
00:07:31.480 But you know what I meant?
00:07:32.360 The little just.
00:07:32.840 Oh, I know what you mean about the hose.
00:07:34.120 Because that hose, which is not technically different visually or, you know, kinetically than the thing on my sink as a child, right?
00:07:44.320 The little thing that you grab, pull out with a hose to, like, really hose down the dishes.
00:07:47.920 Oh, well, I've done absolute pretended I'm out of, you know, that little hose, the dish hose, yeah, yeah.
00:07:52.000 Yes, and I love that thing.
00:07:53.480 And, like, that sounded like, like, when it stops and goes.
00:07:56.880 Yeah, God, yeah, and, like, there's something about the way watching them, you know, make anything that's a something soda.
00:08:02.060 Like, the way it, like, switches over, like, from, the way it switches over from, you know, cranberry juice to soda, seltzer.
00:08:11.060 The way it switches over, I mean, my God.
00:08:12.900 And, like, also, like, the kind of dirtiness of, like, it's all coming out of the same hose.
00:08:16.860 The rusty tap.
00:08:17.940 I mean, it's just, it's disgusting to say the least.
00:08:20.760 Like, if you try to get just soda or water out of that thing or soda, it's going to have a little touch of flavor of something else that can pass through.
00:08:28.720 Yeah.
00:08:28.840 No, but I mean, like, it'll taste like cran.
00:08:30.340 because it all shoots.
00:08:31.940 You know what I'm talking about?
00:08:32.640 It all shoots.
00:08:33.680 Oh, no, of course.
00:08:35.380 It's residue.
00:08:36.580 Yeah, that's what I mean.
00:08:37.480 It's constantly the residue of another beverage.
00:08:39.880 You're never getting the pure.
00:08:42.760 And you don't care.
00:08:44.340 You don't care.
00:08:45.160 Because you're drunk, baby.
00:08:48.100 Oh, yeah.
00:08:48.700 I wanted to talk about,
00:08:49.840 oh, there's so much to talk about in season two.
00:08:51.860 But wait, back to Celsius.
00:08:53.780 We have to do,
00:08:54.640 we got to get into alcohol at some point.
00:08:56.500 But I want to talk about...
00:08:58.500 um eventually okay but tell your celsius story and then and then i'll tell mine story it's just
00:09:05.300 that i had one i was like and then you know here i'm in pittsburgh working i to my shock
00:09:12.100 ordered a pallet of celsius to to to pittsburgh to to pittsburgh oh i thought when you said that
00:09:18.800 i thought your pallet story was from like three years ago and you were over celsius
00:09:22.160 no it's current i still cannot believe it and i've been like i don't even know if i'll finish
00:09:26.960 Whatever the hell they've done.
00:09:29.380 Okay, let's take a minute with marketing.
00:09:31.140 Whatever the hell they've done, they're succeeding.
00:09:33.380 It's working.
00:09:33.980 But look at us. 0.99
00:09:34.640 We're spending act one, as it's sometimes called, on goddamn Celsius for free. 0.99
00:09:40.220 For free. 0.97
00:09:41.060 And I already posted on the thing.
00:09:42.500 They haven't sent a single can.
00:09:43.880 Well, also because then I posted being like, it's poison.
00:09:46.800 True.
00:09:47.400 The fact that we're compelled.
00:09:48.660 It modifies your genetics.
00:09:49.780 Yeah.
00:09:50.360 No, it's the fact that we're compelled alone is to have not received the free Celsius.
00:09:55.160 The first epigenetic beverage?
00:09:57.280 My friend, aka my friend too, drinks double Celsius.
00:10:02.980 It's like an extra thick can.
00:10:04.100 It's like a tall boy of Celsius. 1.00
00:10:05.600 Oh, shit. 1.00
00:10:06.060 And he drinks two a day and I had to do outreach and be like, I think you got to get off because... 1.00
00:10:11.140 Okay.
00:10:12.180 Because...
00:10:12.660 I think that's too many vitamins, first of all.
00:10:14.000 I haven't researched it.
00:10:15.700 I, of course, have not done the research.
00:10:17.240 I scoff at research.
00:10:18.260 Not my job.
00:10:19.220 But I believe it's poison.
00:10:22.140 Well, when you said poison to me, okay?
00:10:24.520 because i i text you to go okay i had a celsius and dear god because i always feel like i can't
00:10:31.080 i you know noticing the effect something has i'm always like i don't know you know what i mean
00:10:35.720 yeah i i went from profound depression to soaring cackling and experiencing joy
00:10:41.860 okay that's great 15 minutes then keep drinking who cares the two of us were like wait are we
00:10:47.540 like what's going on and then we're like oh my god it's the celsius we drank 15 minutes ago
00:10:51.620 okay it was that's so that's great it was notable now i then you were like it's poison and i was
00:10:57.320 like okay what does she mean and i was like i realized i hadn't even looked at anything okay
00:11:00.940 and then i look and i'm like oh is it the sucralose that you're not you're not sucralose
00:11:06.060 isn't the ingredient list like 4 000 pages long classic all right hold on the classic
00:11:11.940 you know the classic um if you can't okay like a wellness cliche if you can't pronounce something
00:11:19.040 then it shouldn't be going in your body
00:11:20.660 that's not
00:11:22.980 I mean that's not true
00:11:25.220 because that's inherently true
00:11:27.040 you know what I mean
00:11:27.860 there's probably a chemical name for like banana
00:11:30.320 that exists
00:11:31.820 you know what I mean right
00:11:33.780 a lot of those people love saying
00:11:36.720 and they just like love
00:11:37.460 anything people love saying
00:11:39.840 which is arguably our lives
00:11:42.620 is saying things we love saying
00:11:44.960 but let's see
00:11:46.000 well they kind of don't have much of an ingredients list it's weird carbonated exactly it's like scary
00:11:52.000 natural flavor natural flavors red flag red flag emergency because they can literally put they can
00:11:58.420 put anything they can put like caca into that yeah and call it natural flavors because isn't
00:12:04.380 there a thing that like cheap um musk flavored things are actually i don't know that i can't
00:12:09.900 even go there what you know like uh like i forget what it is it's like oh oh i know what it is it's 0.90
00:12:15.700 vanilla we've we've probably covered this it's like some vanilla is like pig's ass or something 0.96
00:12:20.500 like that some vanilla is vanilla bean the gorgeous bean yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna google 0.84
00:12:25.220 real quick like like vanilla flavor oh yeah well if anything ever says flavor it's trouble
00:12:31.120 what okay it's so it's either vanilla extract versus essence ew wait let's see if this is it 0.96
00:12:39.280 um like i'm like do i search pig's ass like it's something like that i just can't remember 0.97
00:12:45.900 vanilla flavor is made of oh beaver secretions oh boy here we go with the beaver secretions and 0.98
00:12:54.800 then like you know you see like you see the google search options and you're like oh this
00:12:59.520 is what other people search it's actually one of the few moments of community we experience in this
00:13:04.060 life anymore only time we join hands yeah it's going oh someone phrased it this way and they
00:13:08.760 You have to find the commonality of language when you phrase something going, well, this will never come up.
00:13:14.160 And then there it is. 0.99
00:13:14.780 And there she is.
00:13:15.560 No original thought.
00:13:16.780 Why would there be?
00:13:17.500 Why would we strive for that?
00:13:18.420 Why would we strive for originality?
00:13:20.500 Well, yeah, I mean, absolutely.
00:13:22.860 What do we think we are? 1.00
00:13:24.840 Who the fuck do you think you are? 1.00
00:13:26.680 Maybe back in the day, okay, you could, and this is, you know, like in your little village. 1.00
00:13:32.980 Okay, you could identify, you could have your role.
00:13:35.300 You could fill the one archetype.
00:13:37.680 okay here we go dried and alcohol tinctured beaver castor now let's get real on what castor is
00:13:45.380 ew okay what is vanilla extract is there beaver goo in your artificial it's i hardly care though
00:13:52.720 like beaver secretion i'm like okay like i know i've had worse you know point i'm going to
00:13:57.200 reference great point it's just i'm not disgusted by you know what i mean like you eat meat like
00:14:04.660 like it's kind of rude and sometimes i eat meat which is a carcass yeah that i mean and sometimes
00:14:12.180 i do eat meat sometimes meat really freaks me out like yeah you have that like chicken does that to
00:14:18.160 me oh yeah where all of a sudden i'll be like oh you know and it becomes too you zoom out and you
00:14:23.680 realize that the chicken was brutalized by someone in front of their child i can i consider it a
00:14:30.600 profound moral failure on my part. Okay. And you know, not, you know, acknowledging doesn't make
00:14:37.420 it better, whatever, you know, that's the second level of, of the moral failure here is the belief
00:14:43.200 that somehow, you know, owning up to it. And then, I mean, I don't want to, you know, um, whatever.
00:14:48.740 I remember early Pug. Somebody, oh my God, I just flashed back to early Pug, like very early days,
00:14:53.900 seeing a DM from someone was like, my daughter recommended your podcast. But then I saw that
00:14:58.860 you eat dairy and i cannot support you know and it was like fair well sure yeah i mean fair in that
00:15:07.600 way but it but it was also like yeah i don't know i mean i mean yeah it's just like you don't even
00:15:12.100 need to dwell on her but yeah i like what you said it's true it's a profound moral failing and
00:15:17.740 i continue to be addicted to there is it's just the you know the tenor of being alive right now
00:15:22.780 at a truly horrible time to live and i think there's this feeling of you know we're draining
00:15:28.800 you know oh whatever am i really going to do this it's the end of the world as we know it and i feel
00:15:34.620 nothing worse than that as like the thing like well the oceans are on fire yeah we are at the
00:15:40.900 end but then there there is a kind of you must solemnly acknowledge that it is well well it's
00:15:45.340 like is it any worse to be like the one saying it in a cute way like dumpster fire or or you
00:15:52.760 know is it any different than kind of i don't know there's whatever this is and i yeah it's like
00:15:58.680 i'm gonna eat animal products till the day i die and and and by the way i'm sorry it's not up to
00:16:03.540 the civilians it's actually someone else needs to take the wheel a long time ago it needed to be
00:16:08.800 truly banned you know 40 years ago and it would have sucked for like again every hundred years 0.95
00:16:14.000 new people those hundred people would be like fuck i mistake right right and like what is this 0.93
00:16:19.100 going to do to our culture right into how we congregate and food and the storytelling of food 0.99
00:16:23.500 yeah 120 years later jackfruits the new story do you know what i mean you just 0.54
00:16:27.900 you needed to kill off the people with the memories of meat and people in power had to go
00:16:35.360 this is going to be really hard and we're going to write incredible literature about meat and it's 0.98
00:16:39.300 going to be this folkloric thing right yes of course maybe there's like there's like a
00:16:43.020 friend black market or there's a fringe people that murder you know goats on the side and it's 0.88
00:16:47.240 this precious thing that you eat once a fucking year but like from your from your goat dealer 0.98
00:16:53.600 from your hideous the murderer that you like you know once once a year every family once a year 0.99
00:17:01.520 goes to the woods but it sounds incredible well yeah i mean meat should be consumed one day a year
00:17:07.280 yeah i mean that's a little it gets a little but then you know that elevates it in this way right
00:17:12.820 not on like the purge my favorite film series but we have to but we already worship me i mean
00:17:17.780 that's a way to really worship it and to actually right and to feel the sacrifice of it like that's
00:17:23.000 um you know we live in a culture of no there's no sex there's no sacrifice there's no longing
00:17:28.560 there's no it's just pure unbridled right um right there's nothing it's just a dial tone
00:17:34.620 nothing is held of yeah um yeah we don't really i'm trying to think do we hold anything sacred
00:17:41.380 other than christmas um finally no i would argue no yeah because what's sacred now i'm really
00:17:49.760 asking this what is sacred in the culture now um hmm i guess just the self the oscars
00:17:58.620 i mean i think just you know one's own reflection and one's or just yeah yeah i think that's
00:18:05.660 ultimately all that's actually now held dear reputation is just yeah yeah prestige which is
00:18:12.460 honestly we haven't prestige is all we hold dear now it's it's all there is and it's actually always
00:18:18.240 been like that i mean that's homo sapien that is like neanderthal truly and i it's that word
00:18:23.980 prestige too it's like that is we were only ever meant to know to know like eight people right
00:18:29.820 like eight apes and like do you hear that what no what do you hear wait it's a timer i set for
00:18:38.440 us oh oh shit so we'll wrap up in a second our first act but wait i just want to say that it's 0.97
00:18:43.360 always been this way we've always prestige the word oh we're meant to be in a town with eight 0.97
00:18:48.160 people it's supposed to be like 12 people and there's and social strata has always there's
00:18:52.740 always been that um those hierarchies will always find a way in right yeah i mean again you can try
00:18:59.620 your heart is to to to flatten that out and to have a total horizontal social structure but
00:19:05.800 just imagining us on like you know the desert island um like like the kind of animal i'm just
00:19:13.940 supposed to say animal farm you know what i mean um lord of the flies like i just imagine like you
00:19:18.360 like in the way because it's like to me it always makes me laugh even when you're not around sometimes
00:19:22.120 when i think about like what i sort of think of as like hard-ass kate okay yeah which is like
00:19:27.040 the part of you that's such a key part of your personality because it's like i don't know it's
00:19:32.200 not that it's unexpected it's just i don't know it's like one piece of the constellation of of
00:19:37.260 you but it's like it's like when you're like it reminds me of that time you told me to post about
00:19:42.400 some some accolade or something and you were like play the hogs game okay it's when you it's when 0.94
00:19:48.560 you like are like harsh about shit and so like i was just imagining you like even the way your 0.98
00:19:52.700 posture is right now like your knee is up and you're kind of like you're kind of like palsy 0.99
00:19:57.060 okay like hard ass and i was imagining you on the desert island like with a group of people like
00:20:01.360 it's eight of us you know the plane has stranded us whatever like it's becoming like a question of 0.95
00:20:05.420 survival and you're like look like yeah we all love to like i just am around the like fire okay
00:20:11.940 yeah yeah i'd love to flatten this thing out but let's get real like hierarchies are gonna find
00:20:15.520 our way in people so i say it's me or whatever oh my god me at the top novak secretary
00:20:20.980 you know like like i can just see you like almost like like yeah some of the some of the group's
00:20:27.320 gonna get to eat meat and some of the group is gonna have to eat grass and that's just the way
00:20:31.320 it is i'm not a leader though i don't aim to be one yeah but you i'm controlling i would like to
00:20:35.680 lead dinner okay we have to wait a break oh yeah break okay we'll be back all right we'll be back
00:20:42.760 this is rider strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather
00:20:49.280 It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea.
00:20:55.240 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Trainor, disappeared from a commune.
00:20:59.000 It was hard to wrap your head around.
00:21:00.320 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.
00:21:03.960 No, I am not your guru.
00:21:07.720 And back then, I lied to my parents.
00:21:10.360 I lied to police.
00:21:11.620 I lied to everybody.
00:21:12.620 There were years right where I could not say your name.
00:21:15.580 I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California,
00:21:18.020 interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can to try to find out
00:21:23.000 what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods
00:21:27.360 and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of
00:21:33.000 to come around here and my wife. Boom, boom. This is The Red Weather. Listen to The Red Weather 1.00
00:21:40.480 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:21:48.020 the coolest cat in country music.
00:21:50.120 He is edgy. He's fun.
00:21:51.940 He is Chase Matthews. Keith Urban
00:21:53.840 helped make him a global sensation last
00:21:55.860 year, but it's his recent number one hit
00:21:57.620 Darling that put Chase on the map and
00:21:59.780 launched a fun and difficult
00:22:01.580 conversation about lovers who cheat
00:22:03.600 and lie. That's why I'm scared to get married. 0.53
00:22:05.800 You're giving me trust issues, brother. Crook and
00:22:07.700 Chase Nashville Chats with Chase Matthews.
00:22:10.000 Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio
00:22:11.960 app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
00:22:13.840 you listen to podcasts.
00:22:18.020 and we're back to be in proximity to such a great mind as jacqueline novak and to be known
00:22:25.480 and to then be able to come into myself to be able to glimpse myself in some way you know what i
00:22:31.140 back to just very generous talk about me glimpsing myself through through your praise i mean you're
00:22:35.500 the only funny person we know this okay you're the speed with which you can say jackfruit okay
00:22:41.380 the perfect and most hilarious thing the speeds go on what were you gonna say i just was thinking
00:22:47.700 Well, just quickly, yeah.
00:22:49.780 Today, you know, we're more disconnected than ever,
00:22:51.800 but we can reach everyone all the time, you know,
00:22:53.260 and surveillance is, well, surveillance is always going to be the end,
00:22:56.640 and it is.
00:22:56.980 Ah!
00:22:57.920 I was just, yeah.
00:23:01.280 Not interested in AI, and yet.
00:23:03.020 Wait, did we talk about me trying to send you that robot video to freak you out?
00:23:06.220 No, I liked it.
00:23:07.520 Okay, so you said.
00:23:08.800 That's not the strangest thing.
00:23:09.640 You sent me, you sent me this video as a robot,
00:23:12.200 and you go, this artist is wearing a robot costume and dancing.
00:23:17.700 so then you send it to me and I go well that's
00:23:19.700 this is a robot fully dancing
00:23:21.400 you recognized it as such
00:23:23.720 immediately right? Because we see those robots on the
00:23:25.700 internet the ones that like dance to shit 1.00
00:23:27.600 the song shout 0.99
00:23:28.360 yes
00:23:29.180 yeah
00:23:31.240 anytime you catch anything
00:23:35.600 that is like culturally common
00:23:37.280 okay? A shout wedding? I'm shocked
00:23:39.000 I think weddings are divided into non-shout weddings and shout weddings
00:23:41.640 oh wow you see but that is hysterical
00:23:43.720 you mean ones where they play
00:23:45.060 you know you make me wanna shout
00:23:46.220 i feel like you think that you're someone who would never let shout i would have a shout wedding
00:23:54.320 excuse me okay see this is where maybe now understand yes you have your pretensions and
00:24:00.240 i don't even need pretensions yes but i'm ruled by convention yeah i try to break out of it yeah
00:24:05.200 but that's again you like almost like you'd be like no we need to shout
00:24:09.080 me running up to the dj booth do you have shout yeah okay and like and like i was at a wedding
00:24:16.220 once they played shout twice needless to say i left no but no was it because people were not
00:24:22.560 ready the first time to like get on the floor no no i think something was botched yeah but um
00:24:27.940 i'm sorry i keep the road because i'm excited but the robot clarify with the robot so kate has
00:24:33.120 said in the past oh you said like you know ai is a classic you like ai doesn't interest me
00:24:38.240 okay like ai like snooze okay and it's like it's like fun because it's like you know you're not 0.96
00:24:44.760 like the other assholes who are afraid the robots are going to take over or something right that 0.96
00:24:48.180 kind of thing so i saw let him take over what are you fighting for let him go well i do think the 0.99
00:24:55.160 fight for humanity is always interesting that some people yeah do really seem um some people
00:25:01.640 have a visceral understanding that there is a future and caring for those humans and some do
00:25:07.180 not like most do not it's it's and and i don't know and how where i lie really i mean because
00:25:14.640 you want to say of course you do but if your actions are not supporting by the way again this
00:25:19.200 comes back to the responsibility of a civilian versus the responsibility the responsibility of
00:25:23.020 civilians versus of governments and larger structures meat needed to be outlawed 40 years
00:25:27.140 ago they had to do the math and go okay it's gonna be really hard for 100 years right but then we're
00:25:31.100 gonna just or not even 80 i don't know no yeah 90 years 100 years 100 every 100 years new people
00:25:36.620 we got to just get through this and then we can have future we can have a future on earth and yet
00:25:41.540 i don't hear a lot of people i don't feel like there's been a lot of okay we just need to rough
00:25:47.120 it on this thing for how long no you know it's impossible to see beyond yourself ultimately even
00:25:52.740 it just is i mean i refuse to bring up interstellar but here i am i just mean that
00:25:57.820 thing of like i'm sorry dying today i can't stop doing fluttering my lips like that and i'm sorry
00:26:04.480 i love it okay good um but no it's impossible i think it's yeah it's just really hard to see
00:26:12.120 beyond yourself and this stretches all the way to agriculture but wait what were you saying with
00:26:16.460 oh but the ai though you sent me a video and tried to tell me it was a person dressed as a robot 0.80
00:26:21.340 so so i actually do like like the average person okay on the internet was blown the fuck away
00:26:27.860 i was moved by the movement of the robot now no my thought i was hoping you did yeah oh okay so 0.50
00:26:35.860 so i was hoping that you would see it okay i was hoping to terrify you okay i was hoping that
00:26:42.040 you hadn't seen that kind of robot yet because i sometimes think of you in a rarefied space okay
00:26:47.300 like the only media coming in you know like as if you the same things that pass across my eyes don't
00:26:52.500 pass across from yours well of course they do arguably you probably scroll even more right
00:26:57.020 you should my scroll is one of the most talk about schizophrenic capitalism folks you should
00:27:01.580 see the way i scroll it is i've had others remark like how are you even seeing any of it i'm like
00:27:07.060 it's getting in like i go so fast and i go so hard and it's so bad it's like god if you could
00:27:13.780 see like if yeah that's interesting i downloaded the freedom app yesterday all right i think i've
00:27:19.840 actually had enough jacqueline i think i've actually had an actually full i think i'm actually
00:27:24.000 full i think i've i've robbed myself of myself for too long my addiction to social media your
00:27:30.100 devotion to has has poisoned me and and what am i giving up oh nothing just my complete life my
00:27:36.800 access to thoughts myself others consciousness um i mean my work what work you know it's just
00:27:43.940 it's been it's been hell for too long and i'm not saying one day i think i could rehabilitate i think
00:27:48.540 one day i could have a uh it wouldn't just constantly be the subtext of every day was the
00:27:52.540 endless scroll but i'm not strong enough yet and so the freedom app you know you downloaded it
00:27:57.100 it blocks certain things i accidentally yesterday blocked like every app so i couldn't even open my
00:28:00.980 email and that was hard but even that was fine i also sent them it's actually very hard to function
00:28:06.220 if anyone from freedom is listening i need help you need a more adequate tutorial and i did i was
00:28:10.520 by the tutorial i texted you yesterday raging pms right i was murderous i was like oh my god i was
00:28:16.940 ready to. Well, I had, I want to talk about more about PMS today, but you know, cause I was dying
00:28:23.660 the other day. I was so upset that I immediately did the contact us. I emailed Freedom and I was
00:28:28.580 like, cause it wouldn't let me block Instagram at the app. And I was like, hi, I just purchased
00:28:33.940 your premium membership, which is like $30 for the year. And I was like, I'm going to need a
00:28:39.500 full refund immediately if I'm unable to block Instagram. And of course have then they've
00:28:46.120 responded but i can't bring myself to actually look but um did you get one of those immediate
00:28:50.160 responses that's like you know when it comes in immediately like we've heard you but yeah you'll
00:28:54.780 be hearing from us in two days and you know who's really good at that i want to shout out to j crew
00:28:59.140 because i bought something at j crew let's just say it was way past the return day i sent a
00:29:04.240 groveling letter it was way too sentimental talking about my history with j crew and i'd
00:29:09.140 love to talk about j crew today also okay great i sent this email going oh maybe i'll hear back
00:29:14.320 tomorrow the next day i hit send i walk to the other room i come back oh there's a new email
00:29:19.920 it's someone from jake crew going we totally understand you were traveling you didn't receive
00:29:25.800 the package you were how could you have ever in that 30-day window received it and sent it back
00:29:29.740 i was so i want to cry that i know customer service customer service by the way you do it
00:29:36.080 right because guess who's a customer for life customer for life for life you will defend you
00:29:43.720 will evangelize. You will do anything. There is no greater thing a restaurant can do than
00:29:48.580 fuck up. I was imagining active shooter at a mall. Where do I take refuge? J.Crew. 0.99
00:29:52.900 Oh, that's where we're going. That should be the ad. That's how brands are going to start
00:29:58.220 marketing. Active shooter, where do you run? They're going to be like, J.Crew, we have a
00:30:02.080 lockdown. They should have that. Businesses should advertise that, that they have some
00:30:06.260 crazy lockdown system in place oh my god well that's yeah that's compelling but then arguably
00:30:14.440 yeah god those greats bringing down i mean hiding in j crew where would you run i'm picturing you
00:30:22.020 know those sort of um you know okay j crew has like picture yourself going into the store okay
00:30:27.780 and by the way talking about in the j crew store versus the catalog is something that needs to be
00:30:32.120 discuss because they are completely two different animals i'm not trying i mean men's j crew is
00:30:36.340 where i go that's where i get really fun pants i like the men's department yeah i was i want to
00:30:42.400 talk about j crew okay a couple of too many boat necks in the women's section for me oh
00:30:46.860 yeah it's boat neck it's it's boat neck um they are there are gems there i'll again never forget
00:30:54.780 i think i mentioned it on poog i chipped my front tooth at j crew once freaking out over something
00:30:59.720 that was on sale. Lost control of the hanger. Chipped my tooth. Continue.
00:31:04.820 No, I chipped my tooth, as you probably know, on a fork when I forgot I was eating salad.
00:31:09.800 See, I made my way, like I like tried to eat a salad, you know what I mean? And I was used
00:31:13.880 to eating like much chewier things right now. So I just really clamped down.
00:31:17.160 I can feel that.
00:31:18.000 Sort of the ding in the tooth, the ding, ding vibration deep in the nerve.
00:31:23.480 Oh, Christ.
00:31:24.580 Wait, but the PMS, the realization I had the other day, because I had it so bad and I didn't
00:31:29.220 know i had it because i forgot to track okay my app so usually if i'm feeling like a profound and
00:31:35.740 sudden you know heinous depression that you know reminds me of the old days okay i run to one of
00:31:42.720 my apps and check and go okay oh look i'm pms it's probably that right and it gives me great
00:31:46.860 comfort i couldn't do that this time so i just i didn't so i was i was in a state of and the way
00:31:52.840 i know is when i literally well not the way i know but i could not find a show or movie that
00:31:59.720 could like hold my attention yeah usually like a horror thriller when depressed and um because it
00:32:07.200 draws me into my body it draws me into the fear state which is presence hello you know uh and
00:32:12.840 that existential horror you know so whatever the point is it's just shocking and then the next day
00:32:18.620 and then i just leapt for joy realizing that what i had experienced like the previous day was that 0.97
00:32:23.540 and not something else right like not oh i'm gonna have to change my fucking depressant 0.72
00:32:28.000 depression meds or whatever and so like but i'm like it's just crazy that we're dosed you know 0.90
00:32:35.140 like the concept of being dosed like someone just doses you with a drug like against your will and
00:32:40.180 against your knowing of course fact that we're dosed monthly and frankly throughout the month
00:32:45.140 with the changing hormones throughout the month yeah and cycle like you know that we're expected
00:32:49.640 to sort of like manage i don't know it's just um it's outrageous and it's it's shocking i mean yeah
00:32:56.460 i mean i i mean i'm the the mood yesterday was and you know what you know what i can't do get
00:33:04.340 behind the wheel explain because oh literally and i'll go and i don't but being like oh am i going
00:33:11.960 to drive erratically because i'm so angry yeah i think and then i have to and then i calm myself
00:33:18.140 down and i don't but like it's that's when that's where i was yesterday i was scared i was like i
00:33:22.060 can't be behind the wheel right now wait was it called road rage let alone run a country
00:33:26.160 there's a movie i watched the other day i can't remember now if it was called road rage or
00:33:30.320 something slightly whatever but it's starring um you know uh beautiful mind extremely famous actor
00:33:36.660 never saw it never caught it never got a beautiful mind you say never got it oh that's funny because
00:33:41.340 it's a great for me it's really lingered as a useful metaphor because um is it Jennifer Connelly
00:33:50.100 yeah um you know who's the guy Russell Crowe thank you there it is okay okay but anyway I
00:33:58.320 watched road rage the other day well the useful metaphor from a beautiful mind is that um also
00:34:03.000 he fights these you know he has I guess he's um I don't know paranoid schizophrenic or something
00:34:08.900 I'm not sure what the current DSM six or whatever says, but I remember last time I said we were on the four.
00:34:15.060 Me too, honey.
00:34:16.080 Okay.
00:34:16.320 It was the DSM four when I was in college.
00:34:18.220 I heard five the other night on my favorite show, Evil.
00:34:20.800 And then, and then, so I just jumped to six now to try to get ahead of it.
00:34:24.620 I'm sorry.
00:34:25.780 No, sorry.
00:34:26.220 I'm just recalling an incredible class I took on madness.
00:34:30.800 Foucault.
00:34:32.140 He was in there, of course, but we talked about the DSM four a lot.
00:34:35.580 Keep going.
00:34:35.900 um so the metaphor just because i don't want people to starve okay from knowing this useful
00:34:41.080 metaphor but in it you know there are these people that he sees that are not real that are
00:34:46.040 you know these recurring people that he talks to you know you know what i mean like yeah that he
00:34:52.520 sees and um and he's fighting that and fighting it and then at the end of the movie he basically
00:34:59.020 stops fighting that they're there accepts that they're there you know what i mean and goes about
00:35:04.740 of life it's sort of like so for me that was very useful as like okay you can't okay you can't get
00:35:10.360 rid of the depression let's just say or perhaps you can't whatever or you can't get rid of this
00:35:16.260 thing instead of wrestling with it instead of fighting with the devil when the devil always
00:35:19.380 wins you make peace you say hello and there's like them into the house that's the roomy thing
00:35:25.900 right well you know my dream of a little witch or the the little devil woman i had this dream
00:35:33.120 once i was in this house and um i knew that there was a devil at the door okay which like you know
00:35:38.860 i'm always angry when i read the union books the marion woodman and stuff and the people are
00:35:42.240 describing their dreams and their dreams are always like so like union and like archetypal 0.98
00:35:45.740 like they're like so a chalice there was like a woman penis yeah yeah it's like i'm having these 0.98
00:35:51.040 dreams you know i know but i kind of have one i was like the devil's at the door the devil's at 0.97
00:35:56.180 the door and i go to the door because i remember in the dream that you're supposed like i remember
00:36:00.200 you're supposed to face these things not because they're parts of yourself and so i'm like all
00:36:03.500 right all right so i go and like open the door welcome her in it's this like devil witch woman
00:36:07.140 and she's like and i'm like and it's like she's pure evil or something and i say to her like why 0.53
00:36:12.640 can't you just like give it up like just not you know like just choose the light or whatever right
00:36:18.620 and she sort of like shrugged and started and i was like you don't have to say i i know like
00:36:23.580 there has to be evil like you know what i mean like i was like i stopped her like so and then
00:36:30.160 Did she look at you and go, oh, my God.
00:36:32.840 I can't remember more other than I believe I attempted to because that is the thing I'm always hearing.
00:36:39.000 It's like you have to embrace.
00:36:40.640 You embrace.
00:36:41.600 I mean, that's a six feet under thing.
00:36:43.280 David is having that horrible nightmare.
00:36:44.900 He's terrified.
00:36:45.400 He's running from the demon.
00:36:46.540 Right.
00:36:46.800 Oh, and then he flips up the hoodie and it's him.
00:36:48.380 Oh, right.
00:36:48.700 He hugs him.
00:36:49.360 Classic.
00:36:49.820 Yeah.
00:36:50.200 And anytime there's a faceless figure, get ready to see a character you've seen so far in the show.
00:36:57.180 You know what I mean?
00:36:58.820 But anyway, that was a useful metaphor for that.
00:37:00.720 But then Road Rage is a great Russell Crowe, just outrageous movie of just, it's just a simple road rage thriller.
00:37:11.900 Okay.
00:37:12.600 And I watched it recently.
00:37:14.700 So anyway.
00:37:15.080 Just people in cars raging?
00:37:17.020 It's Russell Crowe in a car raging.
00:37:19.040 It's a horror movie.
00:37:19.580 Does it all take place in a car?
00:37:20.360 um
00:37:21.980 no
00:37:24.260 but it's about it starts that way
00:37:26.580 certainly and continues that way
00:37:28.540 there's a lot of car there's a lot of car
00:37:30.500 okay and uh
00:37:32.020 and it's fun but anyway that could have been you
00:37:34.320 no you gotta be careful cause like
00:37:36.100 the way that anger makes you less afraid
00:37:38.600 in a way for your body
00:37:40.520 beautifully put
00:37:42.720 and that's the
00:37:44.500 you just said it beautifully and that's the
00:37:46.500 relief of anger like sometimes
00:37:48.500 when grief is replaced by anger
00:37:50.660 there's such
00:37:51.720 it just feels like such a deliverance
00:37:55.300 and then suddenly you're like 1.00
00:37:56.820 fuck my body 1.00
00:37:57.940 let it fling against the rocks of life 1.00
00:38:00.380 you start to feel like
00:38:02.520 yeah yeah yeah I'm fine
00:38:03.860 the recklessness
00:38:04.800 yeah the recklessness is a relief to the fear base
00:38:07.880 like you and me right
00:38:09.200 like rage
00:38:10.340 but people drive drunk
00:38:11.220 it's like double trouble
00:38:14.200 wait that's why they drive drunk
00:38:16.200 no I don't know why I'm saying that
00:38:17.220 No, that's not why.
00:38:18.180 I'm just imagining being drunk as hell, zooming around in a car.
00:38:21.980 It would feel incredible.
00:38:23.040 Music blasting.
00:38:25.040 Well, yeah, yeah.
00:38:26.320 I mean, I couldn't get there without being a different person because, like, I would just be terrified.
00:38:32.920 I mean, I truly one drink and I'm lifting.
00:38:35.280 I have, like, such—my parents instilled in me such a fear of that.
00:38:38.700 Oh, and you're lifting.
00:38:39.680 Okay, okay.
00:38:40.640 I thought your spirit was lifting.
00:38:43.400 No, I couldn't possibly.
00:38:44.520 Two sips of a Chablis and I'm not behind the wheel.
00:38:47.700 To suddenly not care, okay?
00:38:48.860 To suddenly not care.
00:38:50.040 To suddenly not care. 1.00
00:38:51.020 It feels like, oh, fuck. 1.00
00:38:53.580 Almost like, oh, this is a super, 1.00
00:38:55.380 like anger makes me feel like this superpower that I never fear,
00:38:58.180 which is like, you know what? 1.00
00:38:59.220 Fuck it. 1.00
00:39:00.580 I'm going to fucking say it. 1.00
00:39:02.160 I'm going to fucking say it. 0.99
00:39:03.240 We're going to have to go to break. 0.99
00:39:04.520 Yeah, it's time.
00:39:06.080 Okay, let's go to break.
00:39:06.920 We'll come back.
00:39:10.920 This is Ryder Strong,
00:39:12.120 and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.
00:39:14.520 It was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea.
00:39:20.020 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Trainor, disappeared from a commune.
00:39:24.040 It was hard to wrap your head around.
00:39:25.380 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.
00:39:29.000 No, I am not your guru.
00:39:32.780 And back then, I lied to my parents.
00:39:35.420 I lied to police.
00:39:36.680 I lied to everybody.
00:39:37.400 There were years right where I could not say your name.
00:39:40.720 I've decided to go back to my hometown in Northern California,
00:39:43.060 interview my friends, family, talk to police, journalists, whomever I can to try to find out
00:39:48.060 what actually happened. Isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over hippies in the woods
00:39:52.400 and not the obvious boyfriend? They have had this case for 30 years. I'll teach you sons of
00:39:58.080 to come around here and my wife. Boom, boom. This is The Red Weather. Listen to The Red Weather 1.00
00:40:05.540 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:40:13.060 The coolest cat in country music.
00:40:15.180 He is edgy.
00:40:16.000 He's fun.
00:40:17.000 He is Chase Matthews.
00:40:18.500 Keith Urban helped make him a global sensation last year,
00:40:21.240 but it's his recent number one hit Darling that put Chase on the map
00:40:24.260 and launched a fun and difficult conversation about lovers who cheat and lie.
00:40:29.500 That's why I'm scared to get married.
00:40:30.860 You're giving me trust issues, brother.
00:40:32.400 Crook and Chase Nashville Chats with Chase Matthews.
00:40:35.080 Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:40:38.460 or wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:40:43.060 here we go baby season two season two episode one unbelievable act two season three uh sorry
00:40:56.260 i was thinking you know act three season two yeah yeah act three season two act two season two act
00:41:02.440 three sorry anyway i just want to say quickly celsius or what were you saying or do you want
00:41:06.700 to no i just the your road rage oh but just rage and and feeling like the relief suddenly going
00:41:13.380 like oh my god this is a power that i'm afraid to not use because i know it'll it'll be a like
00:41:19.020 it's like it's like the very fact that you know that tomorrow or whatever you'll no longer be in
00:41:24.980 that state makes it feel all the more essential that you use the power of that state right then
00:41:31.120 that's like the seduction fleeting yeah so instead of being like you're going to regret this tomorrow
00:41:36.120 it's like yeah I know and that's why I have to do it now
00:41:38.040 while it's like
00:41:39.960 you know it's like I don't know
00:41:42.400 but I just rage
00:41:44.120 it's like
00:41:45.500 you're getting something
00:41:48.240 with the rage that you want elsewhere
00:41:50.200 in your life that you don't have access to
00:41:51.900 when rage allows because what I like
00:41:54.080 urgency is my nightmare
00:41:56.260 I know whenever I'm feeling urgency
00:41:58.340 I mean again it's an OCD thing
00:42:00.200 I read that book it really helped me a lot
00:42:01.980 but when you have urgency around like I need to know
00:42:04.240 this now I need to do this now I need to
00:42:06.000 like right get the proof now or the that's always a problem if rage induces that that's a problem 0.99
00:42:12.580 but rage actually paradoxically eliminates that in a way because you feel so you're just like fuck 0.99
00:42:16.880 it right who cares and that is i read a book called fuck it that was pretty good i think 0.99
00:42:23.940 yeah it was like everyone's like maybe it's time to revisit fuck it you know like it's like i'm 0.98
00:42:30.780 pretty sure it was called fuck it i like that yeah and it was um it was like i mean it was 0.97
00:42:36.840 satisfying one of the most freeing things that a dear dear friend once said to me i was complaining 0.94
00:42:42.160 or worried about the course of my life or something and he truly just was like who or no
00:42:47.540 something i forgot but he just was like it's just a life oh my god we're talking about himself we're
00:42:52.400 talking about we were like connecting over this like shared pain he was like it's just a life
00:42:57.100 why would my life be any more important than anyone else's no it's it's like it's like well
00:43:03.020 the idea of like what like the idea of being shocked by that like which i understand because
00:43:08.780 i i would feel the same right yeah like i am exhausted by the
00:43:13.700 white knuckle grip on my own life you know what i mean like that i have well the fear of ruining
00:43:23.800 at the course correcting the wrong decision that's gonna and it's like you can't a you can't
00:43:28.860 really ruin your own life i mean of course you can if you you know commit severe atrocities and
00:43:33.820 um i guess i don't know technically that most people ruin their lives
00:43:39.420 but i just mean like you can't you know well to ruin a life
00:43:45.260 like the idea of ruining your life requires this idea of a life as like this thing like an object
00:43:53.000 yeah right okay this is like whatever but it's it's like i'm having one moment where i realized
00:43:57.820 like it okay when i was a little kid i remember thinking like if we didn't have a word
00:44:02.220 robber there wouldn't be any okay like like like people it's almost like the meat thing like
00:44:07.980 100 years no one say robber and no one will have the idea to do it okay and i also remember being
00:44:14.180 like okay what if they put the cigarettes up on a really high shelf so no one can buy them
00:44:17.660 you know and it was like well no because the company you wouldn't believe this the cigarette
00:44:21.900 companies want people to buy them it was like they were just this thing that ends up in stores
00:44:26.440 and like yeah but the robber thing the idea of like okay if no one knew the word steal
00:44:30.360 then like you know like as if no like i don't know like no well at least someone would have
00:44:33.640 to invent it wouldn't just be like a category ungood yeah oh wow yeah yeah right right like 0.55
00:44:40.320 me accidentally stumbling into being like a totalitarian like linguist you're like orwellian
00:44:46.860 version of paradise 0.58
00:44:48.220 erase the word
00:44:50.260 but like the idea if you had to stop
00:44:53.080 thinking about saying you're right
00:44:54.880 obviously language creates misery
00:44:56.580 is the prison and the key out
00:44:59.200 we are both confined 0.99
00:45:00.720 and created by language
00:45:02.140 constrained and created
00:45:04.280 language creates and constrains experience
00:45:06.800 and that is one of the hardest things
00:45:08.720 to live through
00:45:09.660 one of the key things
00:45:11.600 but
00:45:14.160 if you
00:45:16.240 i'm actually experimenting with this because when you and this is a little synesthesia thing but
00:45:20.300 when you picture like your life okay yeah like that that as a noun okay don't ruin your life
00:45:27.060 your life yeah yeah do you see something like i love this question because i sort of see the word
00:45:33.780 life okay it almost like expands out across this like visual field that i imagine as life okay
00:45:40.240 yeah i don't know it's just like so i do that with like the words and then it's like
00:45:43.920 it's like yeah i'm kind of imagining a rectangle right it's not a line because i'm not such a
00:45:50.220 fool as to think that there's no depth to a given moment right but i expand that line into just like
00:45:56.460 a rectangle like a banner and it's like that's still that's still just an object i don't know 0.93
00:46:01.280 the physical idea of one's life and it being like a substance that you could ruin or not weird
00:46:07.360 is this strange when i picture your life yeah no i see i'm in my parents house i'm in the house
00:46:14.680 that i was raised in okay finally somebody gives me what i want when i ask and i'm floating and
00:46:19.720 i'm floating in the air it's just very specific it's not touching furniture it's this area of air
00:46:25.500 yes kate that's above the dining room table i don't know okay go on and then i'll talk about
00:46:31.860 It's this area of the air that's not touching furniture or walls in my, the house in which I was raised.
00:46:39.280 It's this area between the dining room table and the kitchen.
00:46:42.400 Yes.
00:46:42.920 There's no separate dining room.
00:46:44.100 It's just like the kitchen kind of is.
00:46:45.700 The kitchen's very small.
00:46:46.840 Whatever.
00:46:47.920 It's like in there.
00:46:49.240 And I'm seeing like, my mother makes these beautiful flower arrangements.
00:46:52.220 I'm seeing like part of a red flower.
00:46:54.540 Yes.
00:46:55.120 And like the doors open.
00:46:56.260 And like that's, I don't know, when you said that picture, like that's where I went.
00:47:00.000 Okay.
00:47:00.640 Thank you.
00:47:01.480 Okay.
00:47:01.860 So I'm constantly begging people because I've always been convinced that my experience in my mind, like this, what I'm seeing visually, like these kind of abstract collages, you know, for different things.
00:47:15.640 I just realized I'm still wearing my weights from my Tracy Anderson video on my ankles.
00:47:19.540 So if anyone wants to just hear me kind of pull those off, the Velcro.
00:47:23.060 I didn't even notice.
00:47:24.280 I guess my legs are just that strong now.
00:47:26.480 Absolutely cyborgian.
00:47:27.760 um i i'm always like i'm really interested in those images like what i picture right
00:47:34.760 and because it's it's all the time and it's everything like like for me a big one is like
00:47:38.900 if you're on the phone with something someone what are you picturing and i've realized like
00:47:41.620 if you've never seen their house or their home i sort of create this like collage space that's
00:47:45.860 usually based on something and it might not even be a home okay so like i realized the other day
00:47:50.980 like well whatever all right so would you okay now i'm like okay i realized the other day like
00:47:55.620 someone was talking about like um like uh like um i realized that it's so specific that's why i
00:48:05.020 almost hate to say it because it's like whatever but it was like it's like a thing about talking
00:48:08.320 about like people getting writer's assistant jobs in television rooms and i was like oh yeah that
00:48:12.440 whole thing and i remembered back like thinking about that and like wanting those jobs or whatever
00:48:17.140 or the question of like is that you know the path and i realized i've always pictured writer's rooms
00:48:22.900 in the nurse's office of my elementary school wow okay i'm like it was like i was remembering
00:48:29.640 my old image of the thing like oh yeah i remember when i was wondering if i should try to be a
00:48:34.500 writer's assistant like and then i'm like oh yeah it's a nurse's office so i utilize for everything
00:48:39.520 images from my childhood okay so so and i lock them in so like um the teenage years kind of
00:48:48.160 stretch up this girl's steps
00:48:50.420 that I, this girl
00:48:52.140 who's home, like I picture teenage years
00:48:54.440 literally like, so if you're 12, 13,
00:48:56.600 14, those go up these steps.
00:48:58.360 I've probably talked about this on Pooh, that 100 is
00:49:00.480 like, like living to 100
00:49:02.580 is this attic that I picture above
00:49:04.700 my first grade classroom, and it
00:49:06.420 has not changed since childhood.
00:49:08.400 It's like an attic and you're up there in a rocker.
00:49:10.020 The potency of memories, and not to bring it back to
00:49:12.160 internet addiction, but that's one of the most
00:49:14.340 devastating parts of cell phone
00:49:16.440 addiction is that it eliminates your this is neurologically like sound it eliminates your
00:49:22.400 ability to form new memories what because you're not you cannot create new memories online you
00:49:30.720 cannot i'm like gonna box it because i read the book 4 000 years ago but it's like great
00:49:34.620 that environment is something that you cannot got it yes it dulls your senses it does you there are
00:49:42.800 no new memories there. There's nothing there. Because there are no sense experiences there.
00:49:47.200 And even reading online, people go, oh, I've read a fascinating article online. It doesn't matter
00:49:52.620 how convoluted the fucking article is that you're reading online when there's a banner below it, 0.99
00:49:57.040 you know, advertising flat tummy tea or whatever. The literal visual disturbance of that interrupts 0.99
00:50:02.960 your ability to internalize the information and to then attach that meaning. When you're holding
00:50:08.000 a book in your hands or even a magazine, when you're holding something physically in your
00:50:11.480 hands and reading it the experience of consuming it neurologically the words themselves enter you
00:50:18.120 in a different way than on a flat screen well with and then it's like the no no i i that makes
00:50:24.560 a lot of sense what you're describing is so beautiful to me like yeah that's because and
00:50:27.440 as children like the potency of childhood or those memories or the way rooms get in
00:50:31.900 to your mind and your sensory memory is so powerful and i guess that continues in a certain
00:50:39.300 way but i have no i mean i don't know obviously i have memories since the internet i think that
00:50:44.900 no no but there is a um like if taking in information right exactly that's what you say
00:50:51.140 it's all kind of like you know it's all kind of made two-dimensional right and even if you're
00:50:56.560 it's like it's like you scroll through instagram and you might see someone on a mountaintop and
00:51:00.800 you might see you might see all sorts of textures and experiences and whatever and you flip through
00:51:04.880 But they've all become they've all become flat. Right. And they've all become delivered through the same like like non-sensory except for, I guess, visual kind of like, you know, container. Right. I mean, the medium. Right. And it's pure carcass. It's carcass. It's flat. It's only the carcass. It's the it's the it's almost it's almost like this.
00:51:27.960 it's like it's skin only to see okay if you can see a close-up image of a you know a hot cup of
00:51:33.520 coffee right a really central close-up image right arguably there's something okay okay you mean it
00:51:41.700 doesn't sound good so it's no doubt i just was like picturing the steam picture the steam picture
00:51:45.800 whatever okay if you see a photo of that it's like to see the coffee and then your body knows
00:51:52.080 it should be smelling it it should be right okay experiencing certain you know physical sensations
00:51:58.660 and you're not it's almost like this rude like it's almost like you could look at it like it's 0.99
00:52:04.600 fucked up right like it's a fuck like you're confusing your body like to look at a hot cup 0.99
00:52:08.860 of coffee and then smell nothing like close up i say because if a coffee cup is close up to you 1.00
00:52:15.120 yeah right you your body expects a sensory experience and so it's not that's really sad
00:52:20.440 you're becoming divorced that's so that's that's really what did you say it's it's mean what do
00:52:25.080 you say it's like i'm not well and yet you and me i also am not someone who like i also love media
00:52:31.900 you know what i mean and also love the fact that live and die by the image you can go yeah and you
00:52:36.720 can go anywhere in your mind and all that kind of stuff right i don't know it's just um it turning
00:52:42.940 into it flying by your face like the speed at which you're scrolling i mean i don't know it's
00:52:50.000 is it's tough because it's like i don't know it's like it's like when you're arguing for something
00:52:56.880 that everyone already agrees with on a basic level like that like you know scrolling's a
00:53:00.700 problem right yeah it almost feels uninteresting to make the argument because it's like we know
00:53:06.500 we know but i'm like no but let's talk about the exact way i feel like a lot of people accept
00:53:11.860 something go yeah no we know it's bad okay and then that actually becomes a way of diminishing
00:53:17.540 the thing and not realizing how bad it is because you've accepted it broadly like i feel like that's
00:53:23.040 a no it's the thing of like i mean it's like the you know the mark fisher capitalist realism thing
00:53:26.840 but it's like right capitalism is bad we know it's bad right and then that how and then that
00:53:33.260 actually allows you to do evil right like like me being like it's completely morally
00:53:38.520 yeah it's like that somehow allows you to do the unspeakable and yet is the mark fisher is the
00:53:47.520 you know is that essay the thing pointing that out it's it's also still eating meat i mean
00:53:52.080 absolutely it's still even pointing you know yeah pointing out that that the pointing out isn't the
00:53:57.440 thing is still pointing out he's dress at the gala oh you know but it is i mean it's just it's
00:54:02.420 the you know it's everywhere this this thing and and like yeah um well so no so the question be but
00:54:14.700 But are we going to be – I mean, I was always irritated by – wait, where is this?
00:54:21.220 I was always irritated by – what was I?
00:54:23.440 I was irritated by a thing.
00:54:29.500 I don't know.
00:54:30.080 I forgot.
00:54:30.480 Sorry.
00:54:30.700 I was just checking the time.
00:54:31.820 I got a little distracted.
00:54:33.300 That's okay.
00:54:34.000 I understand completely.
00:54:34.600 By the way, I had the most delicious food.
00:54:36.440 So, you know, I asked a lot of people and stuff for recs.
00:54:40.020 And they came flooding in.
00:54:41.580 They came flooding in.
00:54:42.460 I posted some of them on my thing.
00:54:43.760 and then in the end
00:54:44.980 I only basically made it
00:54:46.120 to two spots
00:54:46.920 okay the first
00:54:47.680 was incredible Toro
00:54:48.820 and then I went
00:54:49.260 see this is the thing folks
00:54:51.660 you went back
00:54:53.140 I went back the next night
00:54:54.460 love you
00:54:54.900 absolutely the only way to live
00:54:56.000 and then three nights later
00:54:57.320 ordered it for delivery
00:54:58.380 okay
00:54:59.140 so I knew the menu deeply
00:55:01.040 I was like
00:55:01.660 dropping anything like
00:55:02.920 so I've actually
00:55:03.680 you may remember me
00:55:04.700 from the other night
00:55:05.340 and the night before that
00:55:06.340 you know
00:55:07.580 I've had this and this
00:55:08.300 I believe this
00:55:08.800 this should be fun
00:55:09.360 whatever it was heaven
00:55:10.460 okay I got everything
00:55:11.520 I wanted and more
00:55:12.440 like just so much food
00:55:13.420 and um so good and it just god but anyway it was interesting because it reminded me of how i like
00:55:20.020 to do things which is why i like something i want it the next day some people slip away you know i'm
00:55:27.360 like you i'm like you i mean i don't know if it's sort of i have to force brain yeah yeah it feels
00:55:33.440 so good oh hold on i mean similarly i mean it's a small it's a less pronounced version but last
00:55:42.960 saturday night went to dinner at this fabulous restaurant here in pittsburgh called apteka
00:55:46.780 incredible it's entirely vegan it's polish food but like it means pharmacy in russian
00:55:52.940 does it yeah it was sublime going back tonight you know what i mean yes because it's like the
00:55:59.420 only thing that's going to get me through this week is knowing i'll be back here again
00:56:02.000 and by the way i was at apteka for are you ready it's actually my my it's my record for longest
00:56:09.320 meal. Oh my God. Are you ready? Yeah. Five and a half hours. And I know what you're thinking.
00:56:15.600 That's rude. I'm not. I apologize. I talked to the manager. I was saying, please tell me if you
00:56:22.780 need this table. I'm not kidding. And he was like, truly stay. Like there's nothing. Did you
00:56:26.180 continue to order anything or did you order two bottles of wine? You know, bottles of wine,
00:56:30.820 ordered a ton. Come on. Tipped, you know, 30%. I was drunk. Almost hugged the manager,
00:56:37.200 held back but that's how how much joy that's that's my growth i've i've i've learned i've
00:56:43.320 held back i lunge and then i and then i started to lunge and then i no um no no i just want to
00:56:48.820 say about that i um i kind of the whole we need the table thing i'm like i don't know guys i don't
00:56:59.320 know if that holds water. I'm very, I'm very, I get very nervous about that. I do believe in the
00:57:07.680 two hour, you're renting the table for two hours. And so I'm very sensitive to that. Sometimes there
00:57:13.160 are certain situations where I will look around and go, no one's waiting. Right. Right. And I'll
00:57:17.460 even, I'll even go direct. Do you need the table? I don't want to hold the table. And they'll
00:57:22.380 sometimes go, yeah, we have someone coming in. We'll need it at nine. Right. You can go, okay.
00:57:25.940 or they'll they'll say have fun you know and of course the expectation being continue to spend
00:57:31.040 money of course yes i mean i and who will i and who wants to sit there with a dry uh table with
00:57:38.080 nothing but some crumbs and your fingers just tapping tapping on the cloth you want to cease
00:57:42.080 at that point i mean i was having cordial coming you know cheese cordial i may you know go from
00:57:47.260 you know i like to sort of go from dessert you know then a cheese course so you're back and
00:57:51.460 savory and oops do we need something sweet to pull me into sweet oh now we go back you can
00:57:55.800 go back forever and ever and ever. You were the first person to suggest the cheese course in my
00:57:59.160 life. I'm so proud of that. I'm so fucking proud of that. It was my entrance into adulthood.
00:58:05.240 Oh, wow. It was you suggesting the cheese course. I was like, unbelievable to have a friend like
00:58:09.680 this. Oh, my God. Meanwhile, just that I'm a hound for savory and don't like to end on sweet.
00:58:15.860 Like to me, sweet doesn't carry me into the night. Sweet just makes me want to go home and eat. Like
00:58:21.220 If I go home with dessert on my lips, okay, I'm like, well, now I need some chips.
00:58:26.920 Yeah.
00:58:27.540 Wow.
00:58:27.960 I really am.
00:58:29.060 I'm a peasant.
00:58:29.840 I love, I'm classic.
00:58:31.220 I did what they told me to do and I ended with dessert. 0.85
00:58:33.600 I'm the peasant who comes back after the cake and like sticks my mouth under the cow's udder. 0.92
00:58:39.940 All right. 0.97
00:58:40.480 We have to go.
00:58:41.780 I hate it. 1.00
00:58:42.380 God damn it. 1.00
00:58:42.920 I know. 1.00
00:58:43.460 Listen, thank God.
00:58:45.420 Thank God we're back.
00:58:45.920 That it's season two.
00:58:46.680 and thank you to those who listened to thank you for the issue of organs we obviously we chose that
00:58:53.000 we thought it was important we love we love you it's what a thrill to be here for season two
00:58:57.840 and by the way folks i just want to be clear the mailing list i see your signups and i am happy
00:59:03.260 i'm very happy i want the rest of you to get on board because i'm not going to start sending
00:59:07.180 something out now right right and then everyone signs up and then do you know what i'm saying 0.87
00:59:14.100 i want to hit critical mass before we start bothering you maybe that's maybe that's foolish
00:59:19.960 maybe honor those who are here i don't know hey no i think let them
00:59:24.020 sign up folks okay go to the instagram there's a link i forget it's tiny real
00:59:28.900 not my job not a researcher jackfruit is here okay oh imagine if i made people call me jackfruit
00:59:37.700 all right all right okay see you next week love you love you that was poog if you enjoyed poog
00:59:47.420 please subscribe rate and review if not we will press charges
00:59:51.880 this is rider strong and i have a new podcast called the red weather in 1995 my neighbor
01:00:02.980 and a trainer disappeared from a commune.
01:00:05.300 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.
01:00:09.140 No, I am not your guru.
01:00:12.800 Back then, I lied to everybody.
01:00:15.100 They have had this case for 30 years.
01:00:18.040 I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.
01:00:21.820 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app,
01:00:24.180 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:00:27.860 Crook and Chase Nashville chats with the coolest cat in country music.
01:00:31.580 He is edgy. He's fun. He is Chase Matthews.
01:00:35.200 Keith Urban helped make him a global sensation last year,
01:00:37.920 but it's his recent number one hit darling to put Chase on the map
01:00:40.940 and launched a fun and difficult conversation about lovers who cheat and lie.
01:00:46.200 That's why I'm scared to get married. You're giving me trust issues, brother.
01:00:49.100 Crook and Chase Nashville chats with Chase Matthews.
01:00:51.840 Listen and subscribe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
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01:01:00.260 Guaranteed human.
01:01:01.580 You