Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Welcome to POOG

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.720 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.260 If you're from the Bay and grew up on the JV Show,

00:00:06.960 then you know Wild 94.9 runs deep in your DNA.

00:00:10.220 Yeah, Wild 94.9 has been the Bay's

00:00:12.060 number one hit music station for years.

00:00:14.400 And every morning, we're bringing you

00:00:15.840 the biggest hits, laughs.

00:00:17.640 We've got the biggest giveaways,

00:00:19.100 the day's top headlines,

00:00:20.240 and everything trending in the Bay to start your day.

00:00:22.480 It's all on the JV Show weekday mornings on Wild 94.9.

00:00:25.560 And if you're busy in the morning,

00:00:26.580 you can catch the JV Show podcast anytime, anywhere.

00:00:29.160 Just save Wild 94.9 and the JV Show podcast as your top iHeartRadio preset.

00:00:34.920 Hi, I'm Kate Berlant.

00:00:36.460 I'm Jacqueline Novak.

00:00:37.560 And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends.

00:00:42.300 Two untamable intellects.

00:00:44.060 This is our hobby. 0.97

00:00:44.900 This is our hell.

00:00:45.780 This is our naked desire for free products.

00:00:48.060 This is POOG.

00:00:49.460 Today's topic, loosely speaking, intro to POOG.

00:00:55.460 Hello and welcome to POOG, the very first episode of POOG.

00:00:59.060 It's an honor. We're thrilled. And what better way to start than to drop you in

00:01:03.840 to the very first conversation about POOG that Jacqueline and I ever had. This is the first time

00:01:08.520 we set up those microphones and got to rolling. And I think this conversation kind of orbits the

00:01:15.580 themes, the topics, the obsessions, the ideas that we hope to get into with this podcast.

00:01:20.360 It's a little tour through POOG. Enjoy. Enjoy.

00:01:23.780 to be clear i am kate berlant and to make no mistake about it jacqueline novak is is me

00:01:32.120 okay great and we are uh what are we jacqueline we're we're two comedians we're writers we're

00:01:38.460 actors we're dear friends clocking in 10 years i'd say you've often said we could be sisters

00:01:44.920 there is a resemblance and in certain light in certain times of day i often gasp i have been

00:01:52.040 enchanted with you since first meeting oh my god i'll never get over it because i've always told

00:01:57.700 jacqueline she's one of the greatest living minds it's true coming from you a distinguished honor

00:02:04.440 well now exciting podcast nerves are gone it's scary no but jacqueline and i dear friends old

00:02:10.300 friends and both very united in a shared interest or dare we say obsession in all things wellness

00:02:16.360 which of course doesn't seem inherently new or interesting who isn't in these days you know it's

00:02:20.960 2020 we both live in los angeles you know it's almost a cliche at this point is wellness really

00:02:27.100 you know might we find a different term ultimately for what it is that you and me

00:02:30.900 are really searching that we might often goes under the the umbrella of wellness we need a

00:02:36.720 new term because honestly our approach is not reflected in the wellness community i don't see 0.99

00:02:40.220 it out there there's sometimes a refusal to acknowledge that it's bullshit that it's bullshit 0.97

00:02:47.440 or that it's it's it's it's an end in and of itself yes exactly because then the money stops 0.96

00:02:54.240 flowing in people do not like i love to go to a workshop right i don't want to go to one workshop

00:02:59.700 and be and be healed and never go to one again i love when someone tells me that something has

00:03:04.160 changed their life a drink a beverage a powder a tincture a a practice a mantra the joy that i get

00:03:13.060 I just got a new matcha collagen matcha that I think I've already referenced 14 times to you

00:03:18.000 on the phone. The feeling I get when I froth that up a hot cup, it's a high it's it's unbelievable

00:03:24.800 the high I get. Well, it's also very caffeinated. I mean, I love it. I love it at the lowest form

00:03:32.820 and at the highest form. Kenoki foot pads, dry brushing. I'm sorry. Kenoki foot bed. You say

00:03:40.040 that as though it's like like no the hell are you talking about kenoki foot kenoki foot pads are

00:03:46.900 something you put on the bottom of your feet and they're kind of they're a scam i believe they 0.51

00:03:51.200 claim to suck toxins out of your your feet through the souls of course while you're sleeping i have

00:03:56.840 tried eft emotional freedom technique tapping um chakra dancing uh belly dancing to awaken the

00:04:06.060 divine feminine. I heard a belly dancing teacher once say that you can make anything happen by

00:04:11.780 shaking your hips. Astral projection where you leave your body to go speak to spiritual masters

00:04:17.060 on another plane and get advice. I have tried the Shangri-La diet once where you pin your nose

00:04:24.280 closed and eat like that. I have gone deep into keto. You really are a keto queen, I have to say.

00:04:34.320 thank you and i dabble i made some keto blueberry muffins yesterday unbelievable i'm impressed by

00:04:39.500 that i have done a book called your handwriting can change your life my mom's one of my mom's

00:04:45.260 oldest best friends wrote four books on handwriting analysis and she's like one of the is her name

00:04:50.420 vamalia no oh god that would have been great i was like yes getting her on the horn i think now

00:04:56.860 the vamalia alphabet uh that through forming your letters in a certain way it affects your

00:05:02.660 entire consciousness. My mom did that to me. She used to always tell me to cross my T's high.

00:05:07.540 Exactly. Yeah. Ever since I was little. Look at me now. That's why you're here. Look at her.

00:05:12.240 She's in Quentin Tarantino movies. That's right. I have a lucid dreaming sleep mask. I want to get 1.00

00:05:17.780 into lucid dreaming. That's definitely something to get into. It's big. I've had the book on my

00:05:21.720 nightstand for 16 years. No, we need to master that. A new brainwave sensing meditation device,

00:05:27.180 biofeedback. I ordered from Switzerland. I want one of those portable red light things. You know

00:05:32.060 i'm talking about yes blasts your face with red lights stimulates collagen yes i have one of those

00:05:36.940 for the eyes dr dennis grosses i know him from the aisles of sephora artist's way oh i've had to

00:05:43.220 take music off my phone to make space for more past life regressions you know the idea of going

00:05:47.700 in and healing a part of yourself that whether or not it's actually based on the idea of in a

00:05:53.020 linear timeline having lived a previous life yeah i want to get into that you could do there

00:05:57.660 Your expertise really lies in that kind of more existential, I feel, spiritual modalities of healing.

00:06:04.740 That's really where you thrive.

00:06:05.980 Whereas I'm more like grain-free pasta.

00:06:08.740 I hold a deep interest in food.

00:06:11.200 That's kind of where I get really turned on.

00:06:13.180 That being said, I actually tragically don't have a gluten allergy.

00:06:17.240 So I eat gluten.

00:06:19.460 And then I also dabble in the gluten-free community.

00:06:23.400 I actually have yet to locate a dietary restriction I of course would love to think

00:06:30.480 that I have it for whatever reason to whittle the world down to more manageable

00:06:34.140 form as I believe Meryl Streep said when quoting the Orchid Thief in adaptation

00:06:40.100 like for example one of my daily practices I would love to share with the listeners is I make

00:06:48.140 a lot of nut milk in house. Okay. I do a cashew date milk. I'll put some cardamom in there if I'm

00:06:54.920 feeling particularly sensual. So I recently, this must've been four days ago, came into contact

00:07:01.640 with a jug of incredible full fat, whole milk, organic pasture milk. And I was like, absolutely.

00:07:10.420 So a couple of days of putting that in my morning coffee and I had a religious experience. My knees

00:07:14.660 almost buckled upon tasting the coffee with the full fat dairy i was like i remembered milk hitting

00:07:20.120 myself i've been like the richness of the cashews i mean it's dessert at breakfast and i wrote in my

00:07:26.340 morning pages which i have been doing i wrote dairy is king in my morning pages i was so moved

00:07:33.240 by the the force of the dairy and this is quality dairy baby okay this is organic this is pasture 0.85

00:07:39.560 raised shit okay and then a couple days of the dairy oh no couple blemish it wow zits pop up i 0.99

00:07:48.060 go is that a coincidence or is it the dairy churning through my system or premenstrual 0.99

00:07:54.740 or do you not no i'm not pretty honey it's been weeks

00:07:57.840 but needless to say i'm back on the cashew the dairy still sits in there and i will and by the

00:08:07.140 way. And as you know, I do, I eat everything. I have no dairy restrictions, dairy, Terry

00:08:12.420 restrictions. Well, you've always been able to do portion control. I feel like, and if you can do

00:08:20.100 portion control, you can do anything. Um, I cannot do portion control in any capacity. You know,

00:08:28.380 maybe that's what I'll do. I'll use one of my devices, my, my EKG or my brain, brain wave

00:08:33.880 devices to monitor at some point to see the to see what happens in my brain when they say you

00:08:39.580 know the bread in some of us it's as addictive as crack there's no shock here it's bread of course

00:08:45.380 bread is bread is all we want but there but some people are more sensitive more glucose sensitive

00:08:51.180 and that's where i'm talking about the brain stuff i have dessert every night i have to

00:08:55.300 yeah right now i'm in a strong dessert phase last night i made a keto dessert which is basically

00:09:02.960 consisted of a eight ounce container of philadelphia cream cheese a half cup of heavy

00:09:11.080 whipping cream lemon uh non-sugar sweetener which one erythritol stevia blend i'd go with monk fruit

00:09:19.580 but continue do you bake i bake for the purposes of of staying on keto what i like to bake is i do

00:09:26.940 like to bake grain-free desserts like i like to bake hippie desserts yeah for sure yeah and by

00:09:32.340 the way hippie desserts like the brownie recipes that i'm using are like it requires a jar of

00:09:37.720 almond butter which now in this day and age is you know the prices are astronomical okay i'm using

00:09:43.700 monk fruit sweetener i'm using collagen i'm using powdered collagen protein in these brownies

00:09:47.680 and guess what i'm still moaning they're so good it's not always the case that the dietary

00:09:54.140 restriction means that you're it's not caloric or that's sacrificing flavor yeah it's not the 90s

00:09:59.400 of like yeah you know low fat myth you know what i'm tired of when i google looking for new keto

00:10:05.200 products because they're all popping up the thing that pops up alongside it is a book called the

00:10:09.020 low carb fraud and i'm like nice try you know who funded that in my opinion big corn okay yeah of

00:10:16.500 course i could do a whole episode on corn i want to do a whole episode on eggs because eggs do you

00:10:21.900 eat a lot of eggs yeah what kind pasture raised i mean i always go for whatever seems the most you

00:10:27.920 know organic pasture raised bubble it has as many qualifiers as possible when i realized that cage

00:10:33.360 free was a myth was a joke right well you know used to be oh cage free oh look at cage free

00:10:40.680 what does that do nothing i mean it doesn't do anything for the egg here's what you want

00:10:45.040 you want pastures to be nicer to them as a couple things yes if it's pasture raised eggs the chickens

00:10:52.520 are running around the pasture they're eating grass they're eating worms and bugs they're eating

00:10:57.100 what they're supposed to eat right cage free maybe they're in a little play pen and they're

00:11:01.540 eating corn honey there's like an overhang and they're eating corn they're eating gmo corn

00:11:08.200 so you are now just ingesting corn ew oh the egg world is there's a sullied underbelly

00:11:18.520 have you thought about getting a coop for your backyard no i won't because that's real

00:11:23.600 i actually can't even with zoning you have to the zoning's the zoning's off for me honey you have to

00:11:28.840 have serious yeah you have to have a certain amount of feet between where the coop is and

00:11:32.940 your neighbors i could definitely have an illegal coop i took a sourdough making if you had a legal

00:11:38.280 coop i took a sourdough bread making class about a year ago i was convinced my my new life was

00:11:45.320 starting bought all the gear never made a loaf again i made one loaf and i was like well here

00:11:52.640 come the holidays i'm gonna give out the loaves and i was like this is beautiful this is gluten

00:11:57.360 free because the fermentation is so high it's naturally gluten free right delicious i'm gonna

00:12:02.400 be making these every week i'm gonna give them to friends i'm gonna finally be a part of a community

00:12:06.280 again never did a loaf rise in my home i feel like that's my story with everything hey sorry

00:12:14.540 to pull you guys away uh we do have to go to ad for a moment but we will be right back with more

00:12:19.920 intro to poog okay it's us we're back from break time to continue i'm a hedonist at heart as am i

00:12:32.100 and restaurants are church for me so i will never go to a restaurant and not partake in whatever i

00:12:38.440 want however at home i love to explore cauliflower crust pizza yes you know big for me i actually had

00:12:46.040 a disgusting cauliflower crust pizza last night and i'm considering writing in to the company

00:12:51.280 which company i i know them all for small businesses oh you know i have no idea what

00:12:56.940 they're called but i was i was not amused and it actually affected my mood for the evening and

00:13:02.140 potentially negatively affected my relationship well i'm just hoping it wasn't one of these

00:13:06.380 cauliflower brands that say it's a cauliflower crust and then it's actually made of rice with

00:13:11.120 about two teaspoons of cauliflower mixed in and they go gluten-free cauliflower well i'll say

00:13:16.280 right now i love capello's pizza and i'm saying it now loud and proud because i'm hoping they'll

00:13:20.380 send me 14 boxes the pastas the cookie doughs i'm all over it look it up wow in fact i you know

00:13:25.760 this shouldn't air we should really get the get the cash from them first um yes but that's exactly

00:13:30.000 what we're going to be doing see that's why we're doing poog and i think through poog through this

00:13:35.040 podcast we're going to try that stuff right we're going to go out and we're going to have those

00:13:40.000 experiences and then we're going to report back to the listeners we're going to see what we learn

00:13:44.800 we're going to debunk no it'll be fun to absolutely tear apart a few businesses um

00:13:49.980 and then and then raise up others because i think another thing that i personally enjoy i want to

00:13:55.160 lift up who you know that chocolate chocolate company who h-u i want to lift oh who yeah i

00:14:02.260 mean they're doing well i mean they're in they're in whole foods no oh yeah i would love a care

00:14:07.180 package from who let's be honest we're doing this podcast for the care packages the care

00:14:11.240 packages better come fast and they better come large okay because if you know i will be bought

00:14:18.600 i will be bought and and you know it's important for me to remember to to wait for the care packages

00:14:24.500 i do want to acknowledge that i too am a hedonist and most of my you know keto anything like that

00:14:30.900 diet related my goal is how much can i enjoy and still not have the negative effects of say

00:14:37.600 gluttony and still look toned okay honey don't know um or finding a food that i can eat mindlessly

00:14:44.800 in front of the television i love mindless eating so uh while i'll dip myself into the world of

00:14:50.120 mindful eating you know ultimately i'm much more interested in finding the ice cream that i could

00:14:55.200 just eat you know 30 pounds of freeze you know remember that well arctic freeze is one of the

00:15:01.080 biggest lies arctic freeze was a mockery it was hey would you like to eat something inside of a

00:15:07.840 i bought arctic freeze and even bought it again going maybe it wasn't as bad as i remembered okay

00:15:12.740 for the sheer for the sheer desire to have something in the shape of a pint

00:15:17.060 of ice cream right that's that's only the shape similar with with pizza um you know i'll take

00:15:23.240 almost anything in the shape of a pizza in a pizza box if there's a italian chef cartoon on

00:15:29.640 the top it could be made of almost anything uh the to eat the concept of a p of a food

00:15:34.940 arctic freeze i just remember being in new york where i lived for years getting a pint of arctic

00:15:41.020 freeze at a bodega taking it home and being utterly devastated by the way is it marketed

00:15:46.520 toward men like the font i feel like it's for like it's like specifically for men and it's

00:15:52.360 disgusting and i guess what i hope the ceos are listening those are the kinds that we're not

00:15:58.420 going to accept that here at poog we're giving our listeners the truth about the product we must

00:16:03.080 speak freely and and and i dare you to woo me and this is a call out to all this has improved its

00:16:08.960 formula now they need to pivot to keto and fast okay because because the problem with arctic

00:16:16.800 freeze i've seen them nowhere years okay oh no i think i saw

00:16:23.720 they went under this is evil they went under it was like a small company and we're dancing on

00:16:34.840 their grave and here's what i would say i appreciated when i tasted our freeze

00:16:41.280 i'm shocked and i'm shocked by nothing okay i've eaten i'm currently eating a

00:16:52.380 frozen pizza where the crust is chicken what really offers a keto pizza

00:17:00.460 where the crust is is a thinly sliced and pounded chicken i'm dying oh my god but when i when i

00:17:14.760 took home arctic ice arctic freeze to be clear i took freeze and i took a bite i couldn't believe

00:17:21.140 it again it was it was so icy but not in a good way obviously i've eaten um italian ices they're

00:17:28.020 delicious okay but i still appreciated what they were going for because here's what they did they're

00:17:33.840 in the ice cream aisle or in the bodega in the trunk okay you open it up because you're dying

00:17:39.020 for a little comfort it's good to understand what you're saying you're referring to the

00:17:46.120 freezer the bodega that you slide the top yeah and and you're looking in there going should i

00:17:52.880 or shouldn't i and then and then a little bit of hope appears it says like you know 100 calories

00:17:57.180 for the entire pint and to utilize the language of entire pint is meaningful to me bringing home

00:18:02.440 a pint and eating straight out of it it's yours and the idea of spooning it ice cream into a bowl

00:18:07.180 is completely laughable yeah to me and joyless an ice cream scoop or even to sliding around a

00:18:14.640 a bowl is is hell to me because having to wait for ice cream to thaw is unbearable like a couple

00:18:22.140 minutes on the counter that's and that's where i get with baking they say let it cool 0.99

00:18:26.280 absolutely not what do you mean let it cool but guess what sometimes the bastards are right 0.95

00:18:31.520 it tastes better after it's cooled and that's the true test of the baker well baking does require 0.85

00:18:37.020 patience which i do not have oh wait wait back to our ice cream okay so i appreciated that arctic

00:18:43.180 freeze was saying you're going to eat the whole pint we're giving you something that is related

00:18:47.600 to ice cream it we flavored it but it was so bad that even i couldn't get on board for it and

00:18:52.680 it's funny because then the next kind of real innovation and i i have no interest in it okay

00:18:57.880 is halo top everyone lost their minds for halo top acting like it's healthy just because they've

00:19:03.360 reduced some of the calories i've never had that calories in calories out is the biggest lie of the

00:19:08.540 20th and 21st century absolutely it's not a healthy way to live it's and it's not how it works okay

00:19:15.320 the body's more complex it's not energy units in and out rebel is my new lord it is a high fat

00:19:22.020 keto sugar-free ice cream it's the creamiest thing you've ever had in your life

00:19:27.120 and it doesn't knock me out of ketosis how do i know i have a device called the keto i breathe

00:19:35.100 into it throughout the day and it measures my level of ketosis so anyway that's my life right

00:19:40.120 now whoa yeah where are you getting it thank god it's now in grocery stores uh or more and more

00:19:45.480 grocery stores is it coconut milk base what is the base here what's the high fat base tell me now

00:19:49.720 cream dairy cream all they care about is is the carbs the no sugar i'm glad that you're i'm glad

00:19:56.240 that we're coming out of here saying we're not counting calories folks so sorry to pull you away

00:20:00.900 from the conversation again it will continue right after these ads can't wait to see you over there

00:20:04.800 in the next segment all right welcome back we're going to drop you right back into poog folks we

00:20:16.100 I cannot fail to acknowledge the fact that we are recording right now in our separate 1.00

00:20:20.060 homes due to the pandemic of COVID-19 and the eternal horror, the relentless absurdity

00:20:28.940 of it, uncertainty of it, all of this.

00:20:31.860 And what are the implications of doing a podcast about wellness?

00:20:35.920 Right.

00:20:36.280 To seek out healing near constantly when you don't have a profound illness is arguably

00:20:42.800 you know, a hobby, you know, a pastime. And that's why I always think about this quote

00:20:50.440 that I always come back to, but the ego loves to seek and never find. And to me, that's like

00:20:55.980 a big part. Let that really sink in because that changed my life when I heard you say it.

00:21:00.920 The ego wants to seek and never to find. Yeah. Yeah. It prefers to be in the state of seeking.

00:21:05.120 Skin care, it's the same thing. Like the problem isn't really solving some real skin ailment,

00:21:11.280 you know that thrill the novelty the excitement of peace around the next product corner

00:21:17.480 imagine actually seeing god it's over and be like well you know another one i'll give you 0.75

00:21:22.560 if you see the buddha kill the buddha okay because it's not the buddha honey

00:21:27.780 okay if you've seen the buddha then you have not seen the buddha right um yeah you know idol worship 0.77

00:21:35.740 No, of course, of course. But what's so crazy about this moment is that I have never treated

00:21:44.200 myself better than in the face of the pandemic. My anxiety, OCD, everything seems to have

00:21:51.180 completely vanished. I'm finally at peace. I'm finally forced to reckon with the day

00:21:55.900 because there is no tomorrow. And so I find myself like it's so horrifying.

00:22:02.540 it's horrifying the last six days i've done yoga every day which for me too but i've always had a

00:22:08.340 lot of hostility yes i understand like people that do yoga i'm like i'm like uh-huh i've always felt

00:22:13.620 completely outside of that experience like it's a con totally and then suddenly something clicked

00:22:19.500 and i realized it's not exercise it's meditation yes that's that's huge like that has transformed

00:22:24.660 like breathing people that are like the breath yeah i've always been just furious any reference

00:22:30.580 to the breath breathing is real like any reference to the breath and i'm gone yeah versus you know

00:22:35.600 i shut down like right there's like seven things firing off for me one is the breath 0.50

00:22:40.560 couple couple things one thriving under quarantine okay is it is it disgusting and offensive being

00:22:46.900 like i've i've never been better right now now of course but i always think about my grandfather

00:22:53.920 who was a rabbi and served as a chaplain in world war ii and was ultimately liberating

00:22:58.580 concentration camps and stuff stuff and he suffered from depression you know literally he felt he never

00:23:04.380 felt better than at war terrified oh this is what i was going to say about yoga so i used to see 0.95

00:23:10.800 people carrying their yoga mats in new york city and sort of think like fuck those people as though 0.91

00:23:17.280 they were just walking around calm all the time and that going to yoga was just part of that 0.99

00:23:21.980 existence. And then when I got into yoga out of sheer depressive desperation, I realized like,

00:23:29.860 oh, no, no, no. Every person in that yoga class very well may be there because they're

00:23:34.380 hideously depressed, right? Or suffering immensely. So the illusion of what's occurring

00:23:40.640 in the class is not necessarily reflective of what has brought people there. And that made me

00:23:47.180 that made me less judgmental of the, like, you know, the cliche sort of image of the girl sort 0.82

00:23:53.540 of bouncing down the street in New York, um, in her little outfit and her little, of course,

00:23:58.560 that's why I was furious for years. Also. Cause I am from LA. I lived in New York. I've always

00:24:03.960 seen yoga as like class performance. It's always been rich people who are like, you know, somehow

00:24:09.980 finding the time. And I love just having to do it alone in my living room. I hate going anywhere

00:24:16.520 to exercise or like the group yoga thing i that's for me that's the well well i got into yoga truly

00:24:25.100 through videos as you know and i'm um so much of my personal work has unfolded on you know on a

00:24:31.360 carpet in front of a dvd player so i've been doing a video dance the chakras that i really like that

00:24:35.920 i did way back for starting yoga and i did it again here and then i i turned around to chris

00:24:40.760 okay uh my boyfriend tears in your eyes tears in my eyes okay and i said are you ready i said

00:24:46.320 the yoga mat is the magic carpet okay my yoga mat by the way suddenly slippery

00:24:53.320 how do you wash your yoga mat well because as you know i'm new what kind of mat is it and you don't

00:24:59.720 have to say a brand it's a standard yoga mat i don't even know a brand it's faceless interesting

00:25:04.860 i was like 30 minutes into yoga today deeply blissful and then i started to slide out of

00:25:09.840 downward dog. I was just going to say, was it downward dog? Fucking cocksucker and like moved

00:25:13.700 onto the hardwood. I feel like most yoga mats literally don't work. Literally provide no help. 1.00

00:25:20.660 Warrior two? Yeah. Splish splash. Can't do it. I'm sliding over here. And then the whole towel

00:25:25.620 methodology, okay, where you lay the microfiber towel. But there is one yoga mat. There is one

00:25:31.980 yoga mat that allowed me to go towel-less in hot yoga classes. Is it cork? No. I saw a cork yoga

00:25:39.120 mat that was like $70. It was like, absolutely not. I mean, yeah. Well, the price will shock

00:25:44.260 you. I mean, cause that price, I didn't even blink when you just said that. 70. Oh, for

00:25:49.200 aren't yoga mats like 20 bucks. I mean, if you want to be, this one was 20 bucks. Well, we'll

00:25:54.800 see. If you want it to be slip sliding around, you can always go to TJ Maxx and get a Gaim.

00:26:00.820 What's that? It's just a brand that is very common with yoga mats. Gaim makes a lot of

00:26:05.460 things. I think I have my yoga block as Gaia. Yeah. You've probably seen their stuff in Barnes

00:26:10.580 and Noble. Wow. Whole Foods tends to have a rack. I haven't been to a brick and mortar in eight

00:26:15.620 years. Apparently Lululemon, Chris told me, there's something like they, their per square footage

00:26:23.480 of their brick and mortar sales rivals none but the Mac store. Like their price point,

00:26:29.860 which I don't even understand. I've never been in one. Tiffany's, you know what I mean? Well,

00:26:33.980 i guess tiffany's is kind of big i feel like tiffany's yeah tiffany's is done you mean in

00:26:38.440 general or isn't it you heard it here first weren't they sold for like ten dollars

00:26:43.040 but i mean talk about it is have you ever seen a decent piece of jewelry from there

00:26:55.120 in a tiffany's window that is hilarious i'm trying to think i feel like i i don't know

00:27:00.740 jewelry it's a relic of like 93 absolutely absolutely and i feel like to you and me it's

00:27:06.220 a relic of 93 because it's almost like when we were children well the the charm bracelets were

00:27:11.140 huge for bat mitzvah girls exactly i find but tiffany's is so like protestant doesn't it feel

00:27:16.240 so like and yet and yet it feels like a protestant ideal

00:27:20.680 but then are there any big classic sort of jewelers like cartier right are any of those

00:27:30.920 you know that my my jewish spanish relatives that's right folks i'm sephardic we're diamond

00:27:36.060 dealers in the south of spain i could see you as a diamond dealer like really easy

00:27:40.580 like i could just see you being like oh well yeah oh i can sell you i'm a salesman oh my god

00:27:47.500 it's my dream to sell someone a house just walk them through it's such a thing i feel like it's

00:27:55.240 big in tv the the female characters like the wife or whatever are always getting their real estate

00:28:01.380 license or launching and i feel like is that because why is it always that i think it's very

00:28:07.460 real well that the wife is getting real estate i feel like it happens in half of television shows 0.98

00:28:15.260 you know and and i feel like there's a lot of scenes of women setting up the crackers 0.99

00:28:23.240 and wine absolutely unfolding there of course we're going to say american beauty being the 1.00

00:28:29.700 trope name then i held my tongue it was a little obvious well because everything for for women

00:28:35.620 happens in the home so even when they give her a job it's still just in someone else's home it's

00:28:40.380 back in the house you're still back in the kitchen wait i have a question i was gonna say what do we

00:28:45.840 think about is it gua sha oh the jade to rub away because i was talking to someone who said that she

00:28:52.980 literally has like rubbed away wrinkles on her forehead as she watches tv like she goes and she

00:28:57.520 pounds them out of her face seems unlikely yeah seemed quite trustworthy well but for those who

00:29:04.300 don't know i'm talking about a jade i don't think it has to be no there's also some rose quartz ones

00:29:08.800 you see yeah you're massaging the face lymphatic drainage is really i want to say that this year

00:29:14.500 i'm gonna this year i'm gonna get into lymphatic drainage i did a little diy lymphatic drainage

00:29:20.360 last night i gave you some it it is diy no right well they will offer it at a spa if you can believe

00:29:27.180 i know they will by the way i want to you know what i want to do i want to completely unmask

00:29:31.260 dry brushing as a scam that is so funny because i believe in dry brushing or or i guess what i

00:29:37.200 heard your hands do the same thing you don't need a dry brush you don't need to buy a dry brush you 0.98

00:29:43.160 can just with your goddamn mittens like with your raw hands my mitts don't have enough scratchiness 0.98

00:29:49.560 to them and i'm imagining you don't need to scratch the way you thought you know wait that's 0.99

00:29:53.420 the question it's not about although there's there's something about shedding the skin that

00:29:58.460 seems important to the process but i i do want to investigate that one big joy i would say in

00:30:03.680 in search for wellness is is identifying problems wow i always i've always enjoyed when i get a new

00:30:09.860 ailment that i've never had before and it brings me to a new section of the pharmacy and i go finally

00:30:15.360 i get to explore the my sinuses constipation section or yeah honey welcome to my section

00:30:21.460 okay it's hell don't envy this aisle you know they put the constipation stuff right by

00:30:28.640 um something i think like tampons or something it's kind of like like they're like this is the

00:30:33.840 shameful aisle if you're in here you're in here with other people who are ashamed i relate to

00:30:38.860 what you're saying so deeply this idea that it's the search that we're after not the actual

00:30:44.020 answer not actually coming out on the other side healed and whole because that's never going to

00:30:50.460 happen okay i inherently don't think my search for wellness is interesting yeah or worthy of

00:30:56.680 anyone's time. I know that I'm tedious when I am searching. It is from behind a glass barrier of

00:31:05.260 my extreme privilege and luck. And the fact that I'm able to spend the time and the money perusing

00:31:12.680 the aisles of Erewhon is a heinous reality. I am not the victim. I am pathetic. I am hideous. I am

00:31:19.980 criminal no but i like i i recognize that my obsession and my search is exactly that an

00:31:27.420 obsession and a search and who knows where it will where it will lead me but i am fascinated by why

00:31:33.320 we do this jacqueline like every now and then it's like because you and i can the the birth of

00:31:40.340 this podcast was us full-throated tirade at each other's faces in the bliss of us being able to

00:31:47.140 talk about this stuff for hours right to finally be free to dwell on the obsession i think it's not

00:31:52.040 unlike if we were two you know kind of like comic book nerd uh guys who finally you know have their

00:32:00.540 friend that they can talk freely with all the references you know and get into it it's just

00:32:06.240 this is no this is for the sheer pleasure of oh you know what i've heard about well you know what

00:32:11.700 i've been trying this i think you and i are on this border right between understanding that this

00:32:16.060 is completely absurd and kind of embarrassing, but then also kind of reaping some of the benefits

00:32:20.240 that come from taking care of yourself or from exploring certain powders. God, you know,

00:32:25.580 forgive me. Absolutely. And yet we also recognize that we're never going to, I'm not a monk. I'll

00:32:31.400 never be a monk. I want a spaghetti dinner and two martinis now. However, tomorrow I'm going to

00:32:38.180 dabble in almond flour and I'm going to dabble in chaga. I'm going to have my lipospheric vitamin C

00:32:43.140 at my Berkey water. I'm going to go about my business. It's it's both cheap thrills and maybe

00:32:50.280 some meaningful practices and investments and that we can't afford. I love to consume. I love

00:32:57.320 to read product reviews. It helps. It helps. It helps the pain. Reading a review. Yeah. Deciding

00:33:04.060 between a couple of products. I want that. There's a satisfaction to feeling that you've done a little

00:33:08.680 little digging and that you have a reason it's an interest like any other like any other hobby

00:33:15.620 i would say the difference in in in our approach to all this is that we're a couple of wacky gals 0.97

00:33:21.920 that's the thing we we acknowledge that we are willing fools i am a fool and sell me anything 0.96

00:33:27.900 i i want to believe desperately yes i want to go to the trade show and have the person look in my 0.98

00:33:33.180 eyes and sell me the crackers and say these crackers are going to change you and i will 0.89

00:33:37.100 believe them and I will buy them but I also recognize that I am a fool yeah and that I have 0.85

00:33:43.660 been scammed I will be scammed and I bring on the scams you know oh I will often pay money for

00:33:49.840 something that I know is a scam in in order in order to find out in what way it's a scam right

00:33:56.660 but I want to know you know once I paid on eBay five dollars for an instructional thing about how

00:34:01.300 to kind of make money um selling electronic goods from your house okay like i paid money for the

00:34:08.560 instructional because it was a scam but i wanted to know how bad the scam was you once said something

00:34:13.000 that i think really rings true which is don't let your healer get in the way of your healing

00:34:17.060 no i said that well i think you were quoting someone oh or else i would have kissed your

00:34:21.660 feet and wept oh i think i know i know what you mean in reference to this it's almost like

00:34:26.220 just because your shaman is a known um scam artist all right so like let's say you see your

00:34:33.740 your your shaman you know or your healer you hear them on the way in talking about what a scam it is 0.91

00:34:40.120 yeah okay you know you overhear them saying these suckers uh whatever okay and then you go in and

00:34:46.280 you happen to enjoy the ritual that they they do yeah right don't don't let the fact that they

00:34:51.540 think they're scamming you get in the way of you experiencing a placebo response that you find

00:34:58.120 enjoyable and worthwhile. Absolutely. Scams work. Some scams work. Bring me bring me the scam.

00:35:05.540 Give me the sugar pill. I don't think you and me are here to either debunk anything in the

00:35:10.620 wellness world or or put our stamp of approval. That is still treating it in a way that I think

00:35:17.700 other people have treated it and part of what's embarrassing and untrustworthy about the wellness

00:35:21.860 world is people going no this is real and this isn't right right it that's not it then you're

00:35:28.020 making yourself a guru again then you're falling into the original trap i think what you and me

00:35:32.280 are doing is is moving through the world of wellness mind body spirit whatever having a laugh

00:35:39.280 having a laugh having a laugh and enjoying the fair i think you're exactly right people talk

00:35:44.640 about snake oil salesman oh that's a snake oil salesman i'm looking for a snake oil salesman

00:35:49.120 where are they because i'm looking to buy do you see what i'm saying um i'm looking i'm looking

00:35:53.840 because one of the batches is going to work for every you know like yeah this batch is not good

00:35:58.140 but the next batch of snake oil i think there might be a little something in there because

00:36:01.500 snake oil salesmanship comes from the reality that along the line there was a good batch of

00:36:06.160 snake oil yes so there was a good batch or at very least someone so convincing captivating

00:36:13.140 charismatic that they convinced an entire town that that snake oil was was valid and then they

00:36:18.180 the town healed so get me a convincing snake oil salesman that's what's so funny all the tinctures

00:36:23.440 the powders the all of it deep down i know oh but i just probably exercised like every day right

00:36:28.880 but i'm waiting for the article to be like exercise is a myth i know it's not yeah you know

00:36:35.520 but i don't i don't want to face that it could be that easy you know um what's his name um road

00:36:40.600 runner and sure sure i've always identified with the wily coyote and that the wily coyote is always

00:36:47.540 creating these elaborate schemes to get to get the road runner right but but they always backfire on

00:36:52.900 him they're way too elaborate the joy is that you know then he he doesn't get the road runner and

00:36:57.880 he lives to come up with another solution the next day that's how you get 600 episodes right

00:37:03.020 and i also want to live 600 episodes i love a solution that that causes new problems because

00:37:09.300 then you have another thing to do the next day. Absolutely. If any of this is striking a chord

00:37:15.560 in you, please come to POOG. Come tune in. Listen to us. Go on the journey with us. Try the products

00:37:21.000 with us. Who knows? Write in. Tell us what you think. It's a community. We're going to kick

00:37:26.160 ourselves from 10% capacity up, you know, your brain up to 15, up to 20. We're going to slowly

00:37:33.000 edge it up while still seeking out lasagna pleasure will be foremost pleasure is king

00:37:39.560 pleasure is king health is queen and the jester is dairy the jester is dairy join us tune in

00:37:50.660 send sample tinctures i repeat send the products in my address is four two six nine find it

00:37:58.620 somehow that is legal and send me free things poog is our goop it's our poosh it's our noom

00:38:04.600 it's all we have it's everything and it's nothing it's you can't you can't if you don't understand

00:38:08.560 poog poog's never going to open up to you what does poog stand for it stands for us yeah i really

00:38:14.300 can't wait i think this podcast is going to be a dream come true it already is also we just get to

00:38:18.880 talk and you're the funniest person i know well i can't even imagine what would ever seem humorous 0.98

00:38:24.140 to you about me when you are the only clown that America has. 0.98

00:38:30.900 Oh, well, there it was. The very first Poog recording. I, for one, was delighted. 0.99

00:38:36.720 I was moved. The innocence, the hubris. What an exciting time. And we hope that you feel

00:38:42.920 some sort of introduction to Poog. Know that Jacqueline and I have recorded

00:38:46.480 many conversations since then. And we hope that you will tune in and listen to them.

00:38:52.240 These conversations will be flying into your life weekly.

00:38:55.020 That is, if you are subscribed, that is the only way to ensure you don't forget us.

00:38:58.680 Subscribe, rate, review, follow Instagram account, follow POOG podcast on Instagram.

00:39:05.940 OK, bye.

00:39:06.860 Say bye now, Kate, for them.

00:39:08.020 We say bye.

00:39:08.640 We say bye.

00:39:09.820 It's a pain to say goodbye.

00:39:11.300 We must.

00:39:11.980 It's always the sweet sorrows, but here they are.

00:39:14.940 So long. 0.93

00:39:17.300 That was POOG.

00:39:19.280 If you enjoyed POOG, please subscribe, rate, and review.

00:39:23.380 If not, we will press charges.

00:39:27.960 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:39:30.840 Guaranteed human.

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - November 17, 2020

Welcome to POOG

Episode Stats

Transcript