Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - Young Geniuses

00:00:00.000 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:00:02.580 Guaranteed human.

00:00:04.420 This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.

00:00:08.020 In 1995, my neighbor, Anna Traynor, disappeared from a commune.

00:00:11.960 It was nature and trees and praying and drugs.

00:00:15.780 No, I am not your guru.

00:00:19.420 Back then, I lied to everybody.

00:00:21.720 They have had this case for 30 years.

00:00:24.660 I'm going back to my hometown to uncover the truth.

00:00:28.220 Listen to The Red Weather on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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00:01:05.120 Hi, I'm Kate Berlant.

00:01:06.540 I'm Jacqueline Novak.

00:01:07.660 And this is POOG, an ongoing conversation about wellness between two obsessive friends.

00:01:12.380 Two untamable intellects.

00:01:14.160 This is our hobby. 0.97

00:01:15.000 This is our hell.

00:01:15.860 This is our naked desire for free products.

00:01:18.140 This is POOG.

00:01:19.560 Today's topic, loosely speaking, the fact that we both went to Juilliard.

00:01:23.240 hey i feel like i'm more of a listener today for the first time in my life i usually can't listen

00:01:28.860 are you on adderall no you know me so well that you are assuming i'm on adderall because

00:01:35.560 i'm leaning back in my chair my knee is rocking back and forth and i'm listening i don't know

00:01:42.360 because i i know you you have said in the past that when on adderall you steamroll i'm sore i

00:01:47.840 was just curious i guess i was just curious or what kind of listening i was in for i actually

00:01:52.460 haven't taken an adderall pill in months not out of trying to abstain yeah but just it hasn't been

00:01:58.640 in my my mood to um be on cocaine drive yourself into that i find that adderall stronger than

00:02:06.260 cocaine actually yeah i've never done cocaine but i don't recommend it yeah i've never thought

00:02:12.600 it would be good for me obviously i would love the high i would love the high it's just you can't do

00:02:17.600 it anymore wait it's like are you out of your mind i mean you have to give it up one of the

00:02:21.560 great cocaine addicts i really could have been you really it would have been good on you sword

00:02:25.880 i'd be so much farther than i am today um i mean politically you just can't do it anymore you know

00:02:30.980 people these people screaming about socialism at their parties and then doing cocaine it's just

00:02:36.380 completely insane so you cannot partake not to reveal ignorance but what exactly is the connection

00:02:43.960 you're suggesting politically between well what's the no i love in an effort for you to not reveal 0.96

00:02:50.340 your ignorance you are now setting me up to reveal my profound ignorance which is that i watched

00:02:54.720 cartel land once right basically which if anyone wants to dabble in cocaine watch cartel land and 0.98

00:03:00.600 you'll see that the you know horrific violence um that's inextricably linked yes and um i see

00:03:08.540 the the human toll yeah it makes it hard to think about like enjoying a bump you know while you're

00:03:14.140 on rhetoric here though you know to be clear rhetoric is the wind beneath our wings right

00:03:19.680 rhetoric is all we have all we have is kind of the thrust as our friend john early says

00:03:25.560 cadence over content okay and i i think we you know we dip back and forth between the two okay

00:03:32.720 but we must so see my mother for example was raising questions about certain things i've

00:03:38.060 said on poog you know almost going well it wasn't this it was actually this that sort of thing

00:03:41.300 well actually last year i did put the presence out earlier than blah blah blah blah and i've

00:03:46.300 had to explain mother as someone who struggles with being addicted to nuance at all costs at

00:03:52.620 the cost of boring others while I try to get it dead right I have to at times aim for some kind

00:04:00.400 of statement that is a statement such as my mother never blah blah blah to communicate at all

00:04:08.060 even if it's not factually accurate I mean I'm not one of these don't let facts get in the way

00:04:13.360 have a good story people i do like for the facts to pull on you or you're we're gonna die one day

00:04:18.560 embellish i don't care out of detail tell me like who cares entertain at all costs entertain at all

00:04:25.540 costs and of course i'm not endorsing pathological lying and i used to dip into some deep lying i was

00:04:31.320 an absolute liar as a child and i there were benevolent lies but i but i would become

00:04:35.960 pathologically i would begin to believe them myself like i'll just say quickly but they're

00:04:40.080 so mundane in this devastating way.

00:04:41.680 I'm an only child and I lied about having an older brother.

00:04:46.420 And I went to school and my friend Kimmy,

00:04:49.520 a dear friend of mine, this was in the seventh grade,

00:04:52.720 she came over to my house for a play date

00:04:54.620 and she said something about, oh, like, where's your brother?

00:04:56.800 And I was like, I don't have a brother.

00:04:58.000 And she was like, I forgot about the lie.

00:04:59.900 And she was like, you told me an older brother named Adam.

00:05:02.500 And I was like caught in the lie.

00:05:04.880 So that was, that's devastating.

00:05:06.440 Did you ever ask your parents about any failed pregnancies?

00:05:09.440 AKA maybe Adam was real.

00:05:11.440 Maybe Adam was real.

00:05:12.440 Oh, wow. No, no, no, no. He's not. He's not.

00:05:15.440 But there was an urge for an Adam.

00:05:17.440 There was an urge for brethren, for protection,

00:05:19.440 for the idea of somebody teaching me how to, you know,

00:05:22.440 ride a bicycle perhaps.

00:05:23.440 And then I lied also about having a black Labrador dog named Shadow.

00:05:28.440 And then one time, and this is a real memory,

00:05:31.440 somebody came over to the house and brought,

00:05:33.440 an adult brought a toy for Shadow.

00:05:35.440 The adult had to know shadow wasn't real.

00:05:37.760 So this adult was trying to somehow support my phantom dog, right?

00:05:42.940 Kind of support the narrative.

00:05:44.140 It wasn't real, right?

00:05:44.880 It wasn't like they showed up.

00:05:46.280 There was no shadow.

00:05:47.460 I just remember the dog.

00:05:48.620 I remember the dog toy and being like, oh, and then kind of being confused and being

00:05:52.020 like, see, shadow is real.

00:05:54.000 And I lied about being Curly Sue, that that was me.

00:05:57.620 Let's take a minute with that because this is a six minute chuckle for me.

00:06:01.940 okay you lied about being curly sue about having been curly sue and i believe played curly sue now

00:06:08.380 when did you well in my mind i was like curly sue's age and i was like well that might as well

00:06:12.420 be me so that's very good for those who don't know curly sue was a early 90s film perhaps even

00:06:19.140 late 80s that i haven't seen in ages but the star is you guessed it she's got curly brown locks much

00:06:24.840 like myself i think it's jim belushi and andy mcdowell is it not i would look it up but who

00:06:29.920 Who cares? And yeah, I just really believed that that was me. And so I told some folks.

00:06:39.220 I think that's one of your gifts. Okay. I think you are able to manifest realities. Okay. Through

00:06:45.080 a slippery relation to the truth. Writing it down, writing it down. Yeah. Many of us could

00:06:50.600 benefit. Or don't need to. It's a podcast, but yeah. Well, like, let me give an example. You

00:06:53.760 had a quote somewhere on one of your materials at some point, right? That said like something

00:06:57.500 like you're david lynch's favorite comedian you're you're bad that's not true i have to stop you

00:07:02.780 it's that this is so funny dan st germain a stand-up comedian back in new york or yeah you

00:07:09.060 know pound in the mic dan st germain once said that my stand-up or something was like if david

00:07:14.680 lynch did stand up that's what you're thinking no no indeed i wanted to create a lie and by the way

00:07:19.340 you told me because here's what i'm saying i don't think i ever seeing some version of it somewhere

00:07:23.820 okay that may have been even like you said it on stage as a joke or something it could be okay yeah

00:07:29.440 but I thought I saw it somewhere specifically like maybe someone quoted misquoted okay but I saw it

00:07:36.480 because I then reached out and said is this quote from David Lynch real like because I was like oh

00:07:41.580 I was racked with jealousy of course can you imagine so so there was like there was that and

00:07:47.100 then oh no and then I'm forgetting another one nurse Jackie oh that's right I used to have fake

00:07:51.380 credits because I had no credits. So I'd have people be like, you know, her from nurse Jackie,

00:07:56.040 Kate Berlant. And it's great. Cause like people go, Oh, and that was just kind of fun. It's just

00:08:00.880 fun. We, we, you know, comedians. It was always nurse Jackie. No, right. And it's perfect.

00:08:07.540 Cause everyone's like, cause everyone else's credits is like, he's got a comedy central

00:08:11.580 and so that was mine. I just want to say that I wanted to spread a lie and I was even considering

00:08:18.240 really kind of starting to spread it I was going to spread a lie that I went to Juilliard because

00:08:23.420 I was like that actually I think if you if people thought I went to Juilliard for acting

00:08:27.740 I would never say that no I guess I was considering like what if just I started

00:08:32.440 telling people to kind of this is huge that into conversation then I did go to go because I did go

00:08:38.380 to Juilliard okay see I know you're lying okay I know but here's the thing I know you too I was

00:08:44.200 silent with the excitement okay because currently and i had to take it out for space and then i had

00:08:50.020 to put it back in because i missed it too bad currently in my uh profile okay on instagram

00:08:55.120 i don't say i went to juilliard but i do have a quote that's meaningful to me from save the last

00:08:59.560 dance okay that i think is both hilarious and whatever which is do you want juilliard oh my

00:09:05.240 god i've never noticed that that's in your instagram bio yes okay dash save the last dance

00:09:10.740 i assume it's there unless i made room to promote something okay because yeah it's not there right 0.75

00:09:17.080 now fuck okay it was there literally a week ago okay and it's going back in it's going back in 0.73

00:09:22.360 whatever it doesn't matter but yeah everything about juilliard juilliard is is is the catnip 0.98

00:09:28.180 to my ego in a way that the devastation of not having gone to juilliard i mean you talk about

00:09:36.400 there being no no language for exercise in the home growing up I feel like no one raised the

00:09:40.920 possibility of Juilliard generally to me you know like I just truly thought it was something others

00:09:47.620 found their way to and I don't even know what I would have gone for you know what I'm realizing

00:09:52.320 I'll just say that part of my lying my mother um tells a story about how she lied my mom has a

00:09:58.900 self-consciousness of having not gone to college and she was at some party some dinner party and

00:10:05.660 the topic of harvard came up and someone was like who went to harvard maybe it was like it was some

00:10:10.800 kind of like gala or something or like there was like someone in the microphone and people at tables

00:10:14.460 and my mom raised her hand and just like to kind of gain the power of like i went to harvard right

00:10:19.960 and people kind of looked at her like oh you know and then a friend that knows her goes you didn't

00:10:24.980 go to harvard and she was like she was like i went for two years i left see that's the gift

00:10:30.000 you have that gift that lie that secondary lie the the defense lie i heard you in that so hardcore

00:10:36.820 the um i don't have two years left that is like that's like a you lie yeah you know what i mean

00:10:41.400 because it's very it's very good it's it makes sense i don't know i just i hear you in that

00:10:46.340 it's like wild no i'm realizing oh that's totally my mother's influence because how dare you tell

00:10:52.340 me i didn't go to juilliard who the hell do you think you are and all that me going to juilliard

00:10:57.020 really means to you right is me saying I went to Juilliard huge and I think this is huge so I did

00:11:03.180 go to Juilliard I did no no as did I that's why I was trying to claim it earlier I was trying to

00:11:10.160 because I thought I felt that it was very clear that there was a benefit to doing this okay

00:11:13.700 psychologically and so I said well you know I did go to Juilliard that was me dropping right

00:11:17.700 into it yeah of course you shut me down instantly apologies and I understand you know um but no we

00:11:24.220 went to juilliard um harvard though can be a curse where it becomes uh you have there if someone

00:11:32.460 has gone to harvard right that causes me to ask myself do i think they

00:11:38.060 like uh do i think they are up to the snuff of what i believe harvard is okay yeah okay so so

00:11:46.940 if someone's gone to harvard that causes me to pose a question of how smart do i think they are

00:11:52.520 right are they matching up to harvard are they below are they absolutely above so like i have

00:11:57.420 a friend who went to harvard who i regularly anytime she does something genius i'm like

00:12:01.620 harvard okay going to harvard that she's so over the top okay not that she got the genius there

00:12:07.580 of course right but i go that's the harvard okay there there it is that's the the essence in you

00:12:12.180 that was harvard bound okay from the start and then there's other people who i find out go to 0.99

00:12:17.520 harvard i never forget it because i go they're a fool and an asshole i do not see how they slipped 0.98

00:12:24.720 inherited wealth i mean that's because at this point if you're going to harvard if you're still 1.00

00:12:29.340 you know dining at the table of the ivy league like it's so antiquated we've already now we know

00:12:34.680 college is like essentially useless in a ponzi scheme like unless you know yes of course for

00:12:39.000 the friendships and be exposed to new ideas but also do that in your apartment with your friends 0.97

00:12:42.820 or like download a goddamn syllabus like it's a it's just you know more and more and it's really 0.96

00:12:47.860 great that college should be like kneecapped right kneecap and it's an affordable and there's 0.99

00:12:52.900 no protection the knees is that what you mean hitting the knees yeah like the mob term

00:12:58.420 i think so the ease of which you said yeah it's got to be kneecapped it was like wait

00:13:04.660 i know you think it was like yeah so you know college should be yeah you know revealed for

00:13:10.020 what it kind of truly is or kind of what it allegedly promises has been revealed to be a lie

00:13:18.900 you know so we know that now and so having like wearing the harvard sweatshirt in this world now

00:13:24.500 is so strange like i'm obviously not actually saying that it's like wearing like a swastika

00:13:30.100 but there's something about it that feels like there's something about because we also know 0.98

00:13:34.340 that that system is like deeply like racist and like yeah like so fucked up and corrupt and so 0.98

00:13:41.220 it's like you're holding on with a white knuckle grip to these symbols that have been kind of 0.99

00:13:45.780 stripped of their power and so but they still hold power so totally like if i were to walk around in

00:13:51.540 a yale sweatshirt but it does make me kind of scream with power in a certain way no right can

00:13:59.540 you use the symbol i'm actually i'm gonna buy a juilliard sweatshirt i just realized i'm like

00:14:03.940 absolutely racing i'm absolutely racing because i think if i start linebacking to juilliard

00:14:08.780 and then someone calls me on it i'll just go i haven't actually decided yet

00:14:13.160 no no no no no but you i i agree i i okay i flew forward with this okay because in my mind so so

00:14:22.420 someone goes you know i know you didn't go to juilliard okay and i scream out of course you

00:14:26.360 don't know shit about me first i just in a general sense even to a good friend right um 0.55

00:14:31.640 i go what what does that mean to you right right you know what i'm saying i i investigate their 0.87

00:14:37.780 ideas more about that around juilliard okay so it's it's like it's like or you know what i got

00:14:43.880 you didn't go to juillard and i go you did okay that's crazy okay you no is it's actually i'm

00:14:51.020 going you did i did we all did okay yeah we want to for me you know the the fantasy the fantasy

00:14:58.580 of juilliard and i you know is young prodigy that's that's what it's about for me i've always 0.87

00:15:04.420 yearned to be a young prodigy for me it's the sex sex behind that behind the um uh juilliard it's

00:15:12.740 so 90s well also it's what's that other dance movie um i'm looking up juilliard sweatshirt

00:15:18.480 uh new york it's it's not abt but it's like abt it's called something else oh there's the

00:15:25.640 ballerinas. Sorry, I'm scoffing at the contemporary Juilliard font, but continue. Sorry. I will be

00:15:31.440 buying a sweatshirt. No, I want to see it. I want to see it. It's heinous. It's like Helvetica's

00:15:35.240 uncle. I don't know. It's a bad one. It's like, go for the classic. Go for the, like. They're

00:15:40.600 trying to modernize with a sans serif, kind of like, yeah, give me serif. The font doesn't have

00:15:46.940 this, but the font is communicating as if the sweatshirt said Juilliard, period. Of course.

00:15:51.940 like that's like like that which is no i get that and juilliard period to me is like is like it's

00:15:59.280 like juilliard need i say more yeah yeah like here i'm gonna have to go to ebay to buy good

00:16:04.400 ass juilliard yeah here's a vintage 90s juilliard sweatshirt size xl fifty dollars free shipping

00:16:10.080 but it's xl i know you don't wear xl i love an xl i love a big one so i'll expect a package

00:16:15.520 delivered quite soon i'm racing because i'm afraid i'm this is the race of ebay are you

00:16:19.940 gonna catch it before i do hold on oh vintage shopping with a friend i'm watching it vintage

00:16:27.060 i should hope so vintage juilliard sweatshirt do you recall shopping with a friend like what's that

00:16:35.160 shopping with a friend as being a movie wait this doesn't make sense oh you know what well

00:16:44.520 here's a big question did you spell juilliard right i'm pretty sure i did i did you know but

00:16:49.400 But yeah, to be like the shame of a well-rounded liberal arts education,

00:16:54.400 you know, like I was ashamed before I went into it and I was ashamed after,

00:16:58.400 but, but the seduction of well-roundedness.

00:17:01.400 Yeah.

00:17:02.400 Well, I just want to say there's a Juilliard sweatshirt that's in the font

00:17:05.400 of like the Woody Allen Manhattan movie.

00:17:07.400 Like that's how I recognize it, recognize it with like the buildings as the letters.

00:17:11.400 But something about that, you know,

00:17:13.400 I don't want to say that there's a Juilliard sweatshirt

00:17:15.400 that's in the font of like the Woody Allen Manhattan movie.

00:17:18.400 Like that's how I recognize it.

00:17:19.400 No, that's not it.

00:17:21.140 That's like they were trying to be cute.

00:17:22.940 But it's XL, which I like a big sweatshirt, but send it to me.

00:17:27.180 Okay, I'm buying it now.

00:17:28.180 Don't buy it now.

00:17:29.200 Okay, send it to me.

00:17:30.820 Can you just give me what your search term was, okay?

00:17:33.240 Because I'm going to outbid you because I'm not cheap like you.

00:17:36.120 I'm submitting the offer.

00:17:37.840 All right, I think you get the idea.

00:17:39.380 And I think you have sense from the tone of my voice.

00:17:41.440 It's time to go to ad.

00:17:45.900 This is Ryder Strong, and I have a new podcast called The Red Weather.

00:17:49.400 it was many and many a year ago in a kingdom by the sea in 1995 my neighbor and a trainer

00:17:57.500 disappeared from a commune it was hard to wrap your head around it was nature and trees and

00:18:02.480 praying and drugs no i am not your guru and back then i lied to my parents i lied to police i lied

00:18:11.960 to everybody there were years right where i could not say your name i've decided to go back to my

00:18:16.740 hometown in northern california interview my friends family talk to police journalists whomever

00:18:21.380 i can to try to find out what actually happened isn't it a little bit weird that they obsess over

00:18:26.640 hippies in the woods and not the obvious boyfriend they have had this case for 30 years i'll teach

00:18:32.500 you sons of come around here and my wife boom boom this is the red weather listen to the red

00:18:40.280 weather on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts 0.77

00:18:46.740 good news freaks we're back in the podcast so i'm i am regularly seduced kate have you put in your

00:18:56.680 order yet because your eyes are cast downward sorry give me one second as if not to the heavens

00:19:01.520 but to hell itself aka the phone what if you perceived everyone looking down at their phone

00:19:08.220 okay you chose to like choose to perceive that not as i'm looking down on their phone but them

00:19:12.540 staring down at hell well it's really interesting like across the table like they're like their eyes

00:19:17.420 they can't cast away from by the man they are like they're already looking towards hell because

00:19:21.500 they're looking towards social media and we got to make a note we have to do a social media

00:19:25.220 addiction episode i know it's one of your big concerns i know concerns of life well and it is

00:19:30.080 it's relevant here but i i do want to briefly um talk about uh my juilliard led me to um young

00:19:37.060 prodigyism okay it seduces me it has time and again oh do i love a movie or you know a show

00:19:44.260 about a young genius okay i was not uh called a young genius you know what i'm saying and that's

00:19:50.640 why i yearn for it that surprises me honestly people thought i was dumb because i said like

00:19:56.440 a lot right misogyny yeah and um and so i have a chip on my shoulder i have a classic chip on my 0.97

00:20:04.660 shoulder where i go that guy he's talking like i could tell he he thinks i'm some kind of idiot i 0.99

00:20:09.960 mean it's a literal chip on the shoulder you know it's it's ugly it's ugly to okay are you still 0.98

00:20:16.260 doing your order because i'm seeing my hands are up here moving my hands are up here they're under

00:20:20.520 my they're actually under my i swear to god there's not a device in my hand no i um i'm sorry

00:20:26.400 i'm a little quiet here because i'm actually thinking like wow i've actually never longed

00:20:29.460 to be a child genius. I was treated as being like, as we've, as we've covered on POOG. I couldn't do

00:20:36.420 math. I was exempt from math my senior year because I was holding down the whole class,

00:20:39.980 but I was also, we've talked about it, but never talked about it. And we're going to talk about it

00:20:44.360 today. Early education. I want to say quickly, the problem of being an overly charming child,

00:20:50.620 which I'm afraid I was, of course, that I was able to charm. I'm having this flashback,

00:20:55.700 my math teacher to let me show home videos of myself during class. And I just remember

00:21:03.620 that as a child that I was like, I mean, I say child, it was like, you know, the eighth grade,

00:21:09.740 ninth grade. Yeah. And I, and I, I know I'm not fabricating this memory. I have to reach out to

00:21:15.680 a friend. I just remember being like showing home videos of myself being funny when I'm little and

00:21:22.480 the whole class loving it and i was like totally allowed now the memories of the whole class loving

00:21:27.620 it that might be a fabric which is hysterical right well there's also something about there's

00:21:32.240 nothing more embarrassing and we all fall into this trap it's particularly hard when you see 1.00

00:21:37.640 attractive hot actresses posting photos of themselves as little children right okay i've

00:21:43.640 so i'm so excited right now it's hard yeah the posting of the picture of oneself in one's youth

00:21:49.840 which i have fallen prey to i have of course i have and as have i okay profound narcissism right

00:21:56.200 profound calcified calcified terminal narcissism that is artifact of narcissism it is narcissism

00:22:04.200 is most extreme because what's so ugly about it okay and so sad it's a belief that one's current

00:22:09.680 present image is meaningful enough okay meaningful enough and important to people that they could

00:22:15.960 only okay be fascinated to see the evolution and that which led to that which led to that which

00:22:25.000 you know and love currently it's like showing your work it's like let me show my work like

00:22:30.840 that's exactly what we got here and it's all well this is this is a big problem with documentary

00:22:35.740 okay okay so home videos are also similar to celebrity okay home videos videos of you as a

00:22:43.900 child or videos of you puttering around the kitchen whatever any of the birthday candles

00:22:48.540 okay any of that any of that even even sort of current day whatever you better be dying or you

00:22:54.360 better be the former first lady okay because i've spent time thinking about this when i'm watching

00:23:00.240 documentary footage of someone and deciding whether or not it is deeply self-indulgent

00:23:04.280 you know or whether it has meaning have we not covered is this a poop thing or just something

00:23:08.960 i've screamed about because i hate in documentaries when they show the subject that the old super

00:23:13.600 of the person puttering around the yard

00:23:16.600 with a hose as a baby, and I'm like, I don't care.

00:23:20.600 It's like, we're here because they murdered 18 people.

00:23:23.600 I don't want, like, I'm not like,

00:23:25.600 but they were a baby once.

00:23:27.600 It's like, no, we know that.

00:23:28.600 Oh, you mean a documentary about a criminal, for example.

00:23:30.600 I guess that's what I'm thinking.

00:23:31.600 But even that there's inherent meaning

00:23:32.600 in seeing a criminal as a baby.

00:23:34.600 Or like, I don't need to see a photo of Joe Biden

00:23:36.600 as a four-year-old to be like, to think.

00:23:39.600 Actually, I guess there is something,

00:23:40.600 and this is why we continue to repost

00:23:42.600 continue to repost the baby photos because there is something about looking at the photo of the

00:23:46.560 baby arrested in time and then knowledge that then it became joe biden or whatever it's like

00:23:51.260 it's like little did they know right and it floods us with these images of the banal everyday

00:23:57.180 occurrences that happen to celebrities it's like i too aged like that's what's so weird about it

00:24:02.280 it's like celebrity being like they're just like us is it stars they're just like yeah i too have

00:24:07.460 aged i too was a child and it's you know we know as if they're acknowledging how they have achieved

00:24:13.780 this level that's so beyond the imagination because of their fame that to see them as a

00:24:18.860 child would would shock us because completely need them to have always been you know suspended

00:24:25.360 to have transcended to have transcended to that and then you look for it in the um well the endless

00:24:32.400 you know see what the stars looked like in high school i mean the classic was like i know you 1.00

00:24:36.160 know you know nicole kidman she was considered awkward because she was a six foot tall model 1.00

00:24:43.580 you know that whole like thing like the kind of like they were nerdy and kept themselves whatever

00:24:47.720 but like looking at the yearbook photo of the star right it's like you stare at them and you

00:24:52.340 try to see inevitability right you try to you try to find inevitability for them and then you

00:24:56.960 look at yourself and ask their inevitability of greatness in you that's amazing wait two things

00:25:03.680 two things okay documentary i need to explain first lady don't let me forget i'm sorry i

00:25:08.480 interrupted you classically okay classically i love and support introduction i mean interruption

00:25:13.640 as the means of jewish conversational style i know but to others not raised with that style

00:25:19.540 it appears as harm it is rapport establishment to to interrupt and to disagree uh to point out

00:25:26.160 inconsistencies etc etc these are ways of showing engagement you know and we do it freely here and

00:25:31.880 and, and the joy that's evidenced. I mean, maybe people think we're extremely evolved for not being

00:25:36.120 offended by, you know, um, I've tried to take that approach in my personal life and I see that

00:25:41.180 it does read as harm. It does read as not listening and narcissism as much as I, but there are

00:25:47.840 you, John, there, there are some people that I can engage in that kind of conversational flow with

00:25:53.100 anyway, continue. So wait, but to return to the narcissism issue, okay. The, the, the photos of

00:25:58.460 and self the the footage so i'll be watching something and and deciding whether it's self

00:26:03.060 indulgent and what so for me i've watched documentaries where someone is dying okay

00:26:09.600 um or of course i mean here's here's an even simpler example someone is dead right then

00:26:15.600 footage of their life is now footage of their life now has meaning right them puttering around

00:26:21.200 the kitchen okay says something to us about the nature of existence okay former first lady okay

00:26:27.060 I say because it's sort of a people that we hold as bigger than life.

00:26:31.840 Right. For whatever reason, it does fascinate us and seems reasonable.

00:26:36.200 OK, I guess that's what I'm saying. I guess I'm saying the baby pick of the celebrity I support because it does interest me.

00:26:44.440 Right. For that reason. Right. The important person, these these things.

00:26:48.520 But when you but the other thing is Joe Biden, how could he have been a baby?

00:26:53.120 I was a baby. Now I can vote for him because he was a baby.

00:26:55.400 but what that reminds me of okay and this is a and this may have to get cut if it doesn't come

00:27:00.620 out right okay if it sours into into harm into listener harm okay if it oxidizes it falls out

00:27:09.000 of my mouth okay okay but this is one of my notions okay okay is okay are you ready why are

00:27:15.560 we so obsessed or addicted or why do we take such pleasure in before and after photos okay

00:27:21.280 okay this is huge okay you ready are you ready so let's just take and this is the ugly example

00:27:27.540 and i may do a different example after whatever but wait okay of course the classic before and

00:27:34.400 after and my favorite before and after you know they would do different iterations of this and

00:27:38.440 the biggest loser a show that i you know adored um the classic was because i always think of this

00:27:44.080 as the the experience the vulva undergoes with the curtain of the hymen okay which is they used

00:27:50.480 to do the thing where they would have a poster a full full-size poster of the person before going

00:27:54.920 on the show and then in the finale that so they'd have that out there and they entered the stage by

00:27:59.320 bursting through the photo of themselves of course of course classic landing on the other side yeah

00:28:04.680 okay that was great they also did every day time with their previous weight on okay like a like a

00:28:10.840 fat suit of their previous weight they made them like whoa whatever okay so i'm i i love nothing

00:28:16.440 more than to look at a before and after photo you know of almost anything but let's say whatever an 0.93

00:28:21.680 advertisement for a weight loss product okay wrinkles whatever the fuck it is but let's just

00:28:26.300 take weight loss let's let's go do weight it's not you're looking at before and after picture 0.94

00:28:31.540 something in you your brain is lighting up okay something in you is excited and enjoys it and

00:28:36.420 wants another let me swipe through i'm always disappointed when there aren't many before and

00:28:40.000 after i want as many as i can right and there's an experience of delight excitement and wonder

00:28:46.280 OK, now, let's say it's look after a year of exercise and diet, I lost 100 pounds.

00:28:54.180 See the picture on the left.

00:28:55.760 See the picture on the right.

00:28:57.320 The wonder, and this is what's ugly.

00:29:00.040 The wonder, the disbelief, the excitement is not the fact that they lost the weight.

00:29:05.860 OK, or the fact that this diet and exercise caused them to lose the weight.

00:29:09.600 the wonder as your eyes pass back and forth between left and right is how can those be

00:29:18.420 the same person i was gonna say how can those be the same soul how is it possible that that 0.98

00:29:25.340 go-getter is the same as that lazy slob okay okay and that's that's the the utter darkness i believe 0.98

00:29:35.740 that's something on that you are judge you are an ability to separate the soul from the body 0.99

00:29:41.060 okay is why there's wonder and you stare and you go that's the same person the same person

00:29:45.960 same soul same soul same soul and you become deeply aware of your own prejudices around these

00:29:51.180 these things it's also just the need to like want to look at ugly photos of other people

00:29:55.820 well chris always said like everyone watches american idol will see like the bad

00:30:01.740 you know oh look at this poor loser thinks they can sing and i was like i don't watch it for that

00:30:07.160 reason i watch it because i i love to see like he who didn't you know think he could ever make it 0.55

00:30:12.140 make it yeah the body sorry i'm a little distracted because i'm still in that body the soul because

00:30:17.680 we've talked about that and that's um was it plato sorry you know i had this it was it was like oh

00:30:22.600 the beautiful soul creates the beautiful person right right and it's just not fair right right

00:30:27.100 But it's like, it is so hard. We cannot, there used to be this, like the platonic idea that like

00:30:33.040 the, the, the physical person is actually a representation of the inner world.

00:30:41.140 You mean the old school idea that like, if you had warts, it was because your soul,

00:30:44.420 what like you were morally compromised, which is like, yeah, you mean the ugly, by the way, 1.00

00:30:47.700 we still talk about wellness, talk about poog. There still is this obsession with the vessel 0.93

00:30:53.980 as an expression of the interior world so if you are having pimples if you are having

00:31:00.340 bloating if you are having these things there is first of all something wrong right and that

00:31:06.280 it's an indication of some moral failing while you've been gorging yourself on dairy and wine

00:31:11.280 you hog right or you're stressed or you're not in the right career if you were in the right career

00:31:18.780 it would express itself on your skin remember when carrie bradshaw didn't want to get married

00:31:22.920 and that's why she broke out in a wedding dress okay it's similar i think it should be a right

00:31:27.760 i think everyone should have someone rip a wedding dress off their back at some point

00:31:31.100 this is a performance yeah you always want to get married in a blood-drenched

00:31:36.480 uh wedding dress or something did i imagine this or not me you imagine that i think that

00:31:42.060 i always think it's so chic to get married in black well maybe it was yeah it was in part that

00:31:49.760 um like that you wouldn't wear a white dress symbolizing virginity i mean i would no i don't

00:31:57.180 think i could ever wear a uh maybe not like a white or like i don't think i could do it but 0.98

00:32:02.540 then being too alternative being like she wore red you know or something it's like you're screwed

00:32:09.060 either way i know we've talked about this in the past it's like it's it's it's a it's the invented 0.97

00:32:13.500 choice it's the this optic of like there is a choice it's like no you're damned like you either

00:32:18.060 have to adhere completely to the tradition and any deviation from that is like there's no it's

00:32:23.920 the false choice it's the forced false choice either way you're inscribed in that system you're

00:32:28.880 not going to escape exactly the horrifying institution just because you wore red by

00:32:33.100 rejecting it you pronounce it by by rejecting it you you acknowledge it right so so you know

00:32:38.720 and in your attempt to heels are present the idea of heels is is more present not on a woman wearing

00:32:45.980 heels but on a woman wearing converse under the wedding dress that's so brilliant flats flats

00:32:56.120 oh you're right yeah an attempt to escape flat heels never more present and and like and big

00:33:02.660 right it's filling the room because because it's an idea or flat yeah the shoe the flat takes up

00:33:08.560 more psychological space right 24 square inches of space in the room yeah heels are filling the

00:33:15.600 minds of all that's amazing uh gently leading you out lifting you out and dunking you into the ads

00:33:24.540 for a fresh swim how'd you like those ads we're back so young genius there's something about and

00:33:36.340 again we're not really talking generally in this episode about this but i'm haunted by the presence

00:33:43.140 of a certain book that I think anyone listening who might be pregnant or in the process of becoming

00:33:47.200 pregnant might hear about called the better baby book what yes and I'm not kidding you and it's a

00:33:52.840 very it's like a very lauded current book and it's all about like sure you could have a good baby

00:33:59.280 but what about having a better baby no I'm actually no I want to like in shock yes yes 0.74

00:34:06.680 and it's all about also this putting all the pressure on the woman if you you if you're not 0.99

00:34:12.900 eating this amount of zucchini and this amount flaxseed ever right your shitty baby yeah isn't 0.98

00:34:18.620 gonna go to juilliard yeah or whatever yeah or like by the way as though some kind of perfect 0.97

00:34:23.960 pregnancy in which you're eating anything this smoothie and those nutrients as if that's not 1.00

00:34:30.380 going to lead to a fucking asshole kid right who maybe does horrible harm or is just quite frankly 1.00

00:34:37.260 not too bright which is the horrifying reality of reproduction right is that sometimes you just 1.00

00:34:42.960 have a kid it doesn't mean you don't love them but they grow into a massive disappointment

00:34:47.220 and and that's and that's the reality that people can't contend with in romantic relationships

00:34:52.440 with child with children it's like you have to recognize that these bonds are still powerful

00:34:59.540 and psychedelically intense at times but it doesn't mean you don't look at the person the

00:35:05.840 child the person that you love and go oh god like that's that's okay right and it's yeah this this

00:35:13.620 idea of like the of the child and that's when we get into kind of narcissism or right the idea of

00:35:18.820 the child as a projection of the parents the idea of the partner as a projection of you or it's like

00:35:23.500 again this is all kind of half-baked thinking here but even if you have so the better baby book and

00:35:28.740 again i almost know i know almost nothing about it but this idea of of engineering this better baby

00:35:35.280 than the babies that have come before you know like the the classic like i don't know twilight

00:35:41.120 zone whatever like you know they're in the guys in heaven it's it's it's great it's great it's

00:35:46.260 great then it's boring and it's oh wait actually it's hell right and and this is the you know you

00:35:52.280 know doesn't anything ever change around here whatever like you know like and and we talked

00:35:57.220 about this last week with wellness about yearning for rapture etc etc over you know the the placid

00:36:02.560 wellness image sounds like hell yeah like the house is clean well i've had okay thus the perfect

00:36:10.940 baby you know whatever the hell that means is closer to hell than the imperfect baby because

00:36:16.580 the imperfect baby has at least something tangible to work on in our tangible world

00:36:21.180 okay right the baby who has transcended all of the human feelings humanity yeah basically ready

00:36:27.720 to ascend okay at birth what hell yeah okay what true hell like no absolutely and like the oh and

00:36:34.880 deals remind me about okay so like deals deal hunting okay hunting for deals etc chasing deals

00:36:41.680 okay okay is something you know i enjoy okay and yeah i enjoy hunting deals and um and i've had

00:36:49.440 moments where that which you seek is given okay and you experience a profound meaninglessness

00:36:58.360 okay so so for example um you finally find a store let's just say where everything that you've

00:37:05.700 wanted is there and it's cheap okay let's just say it's a vintage store out in the middle of

00:37:11.600 nowhere where they don't know what the what it's worth or whatever okay and everything you want is

00:37:17.820 there and it's affordable okay it is it is it is like pushing up against the door banging on a door

00:37:23.180 banging on a door banging on a door and someone opens the door and you tumble down you fall down

00:37:27.820 right into it because you've been pushing against it for so long and now what right this this image

00:37:32.620 comes up for me a lot but it but the perfect baby i mean good luck first what does that even look

00:37:39.340 like you're kicking the you're kicking the problem further down the line okay because because all

00:37:44.140 you're doing is moving the goalpost okay because here's here's the thing so so you're angry that

00:37:48.400 you're not a poly uh linguist okay you're angry that you know all these things that you were robbed

00:37:54.980 of right and then you you create your perfect nutrient baby or whatever right out of you know

00:38:00.640 feeding the right nutrients so you have the vessel that's ready to receive and then you start pumping

00:38:04.200 it full of knowledge you teach it all the languages okay and you get you give that baby everything you

00:38:09.360 wish you had in you by you know by five five years old right and and so you think you've done it

00:38:16.240 but not the baby still rude is here with wants so so now what does the baby have the baby speaks

00:38:22.940 five languages and feels alienated from its one language peers exactly okay and now it's life

00:38:27.260 becomes about alienation you're just kicking suffering the suffering down the line and it's

00:38:31.600 all yeah it's all this this very human need to avoid pain and suffering but it's like good luck

00:38:36.460 you can be the the and again not taking into account the way this like exceptionalism is like

00:38:41.760 damaging or something but just like it doesn't matter you're still that baby still might not be

00:38:46.980 funny probably won't be well the baby itself though even the baby itself okay the nurturing

00:38:51.640 is the violence right so as someone who is over nurtured i can tell you parent presses as the

00:38:57.940 parent presses nutrients into the baby okay let's just as a visual press push push push okay the

00:39:03.660 baby looks up and sees the maniacal the mania the mania the desperation totally totally so you have

00:39:13.460 just displaced lack of nutrient you know or or bad nutrition you've displaced it with with the

00:39:19.880 pushing of your own manic desire of a perfect child and i'll i'll take the best possibly i'll

00:39:26.260 take the oxidants or whatever i'll take the bad i'll take the bad nutrition also therefore

00:39:30.160 we're potentially erasing who that person might actually be or it's like what you're actually

00:39:34.960 doing by those like that well my baby listens to beethoven and we're teaching it four languages

00:39:40.080 you're potentially erasing a much better person through this like rigorous application of these

00:39:46.780 skills yes and i just want to say that there used to be an infomercial called my baby can read did

00:39:52.040 you ever see these on on the on the on the television wait it was what there was an infomercial

00:39:56.580 that used to haunt me and it was called my baby or your baby can read and there were these

00:40:00.580 commercials and there were straight up babies in high chairs being like in their baby voices 0.91

00:40:04.660 reading and being like you know the cat jumped over the fucking dog or whatever and everyone's 0.96

00:40:10.700 freaking out and they have these huge flash cards i have to look it up an audience full of people 0.96

00:40:16.280 are clapping and applauding and it's like so the baby learns to read right and then what also what

00:40:21.100 even is that i mean don't get me started on parrots and like it's like what is language like

00:40:25.500 how does it all i don't know well i don't even know how to get into that oh but like well apparently

00:40:30.120 your baby i mean what what's the meaning is it real are they thinking we never want to talk about

00:40:34.640 it how parrots talking is something that i'll never get over and it's just like i saw a parent

00:40:39.780 recently that was like hey how are you and it was just like what like i'll never not be stunned by

00:40:45.060 the parrot talking and i don't understand how we're supposed to just go okay what no no i'd

00:40:50.780 like a full episode of that but i will i will give one joke that i heard from a taxi driver

00:40:56.360 that i thought was very funny okay okay because he dropped me off at the comedy club you know he

00:41:00.560 had a joke okay and it's related to a parrot okay i've probably told it to you before it's the one

00:41:04.720 time i've heard a street joke and enjoyed it all right you ready it's as simple as this a guy walks

00:41:09.120 by a pet shop there's a parrot in the window sorry it's a woman it's a woman who walks by

00:41:13.960 and it's essential because you'll see the gendered issues of 1.00

00:41:17.740 and attractiveness the stakes are higher with a woman of course okay okay the parent says you're

00:41:24.960 ugly okay the woman's horrified okay she's walking to work the next day walks past the the the pet 0.53

00:41:31.920 shop this new parrot okay goes you're ugly okay she goes this is unacceptable it goes into the 0.92

00:41:36.720 pet shop okay says you got to do something about this is this parrot's calling me ugly it's it's 0.60

00:41:40.200 horrible okay okay okay leaves whatever they go okay okay all right i'll talk i'll talk to him

00:41:45.400 okay and then i'm elaborating over so slightly okay but anyway third day walks by looks at the

00:41:53.640 parrot okay and the parrot looks at her and says you know oh brutal it's funny right i love it

00:42:02.020 i love it and it's very profound i think so i think so too because because ultimately it's

00:42:09.280 no right it's it's um the problem is in is in the woman right the problem is not in the parrot right

00:42:14.900 the parrot has has uh affirmed i mean it's the woman's fears the problem the woman walking into

00:42:23.320 the store to have the parrot you know corrected right reveals her profound insecurity so that

00:42:29.020 you know it doesn't even just mean you know you know what i'm thinking okay it's profound it's

00:42:33.660 profound it's one of the street jokes as they as they say i want to i love language parrots you

00:42:38.480 have oh right right babies who can read right i'm literally looking up the better baby book just

00:42:42.900 because i just i can't imagine if being pregnant that the pressure of that to like construct this

00:42:48.260 perfect person it's just like that's got to be absolutely abandoned here's what it's actually

00:42:53.880 called the better baby book how to have a healthier smarter no happier baby you're right

00:42:59.600 good luck the very moment you bought that book is the moment it was over and it's like oh it's

00:43:04.840 a moment that book's on your shelf the cover is this like white okay this is this is it a white

00:43:10.180 oh you know this white woman with and this is the ultimate this is the ultimate white fantasy

00:43:15.120 brown hair blue eyes

00:43:16.820 wait okay wait this is the this is the white fantasy because let me try to guess because 1.00

00:43:25.060 the mystique of a white woman she i just that thing of the brown haired blue eyed woman 0.98

00:43:30.700 i want to take this in okay so this is a white you're talking about white fantasy of a white 0.99

00:43:37.020 woman with with brown hair and blue eyes and blue eyes something about that yeah well yes because

00:43:42.380 here's this was my first guest reading on to you okay what assuming this was an original of yours

00:43:47.100 okay is is it you get the intellectualism of a brunette okay you're not sullied you're not sullied

00:43:54.160 by blonde okay you get and you get the blue the exotic and the beauty of a of a rare blue eye 0.59

00:44:03.520 exactly okay held in the promise hell you know it's a jewel inside of a book yes correct correct

00:44:10.360 because i feel like the blue eye on the blonde gets kind of swallowed by the blonde identity

00:44:14.880 yeah absolutely absolutely no you're exactly right and so this woman on the on the cover

00:44:19.780 posed in this really bizarre thing she's smiling with this like garish kind of like slutty like 0.99

00:44:25.760 oh no i got fucked and like she has this bowl and by the way it's weird presumably she's drinking 0.98

00:44:33.160 broth because there's there's a spoon in the air with nothing on it and she's cupping a white bowl 0.98

00:44:38.000 so this like emptiness i mean there's wait she's holding a empty spoon above a bowl of yes she's

00:44:43.880 spooning something into her mouth presumably but the spoon is empty visibly empty which is

00:44:48.560 obviously visibly could this be on the way down sign of things to come be on the way down

00:44:52.840 you're a genius the spoon could be on the way down it could be on the way down but i just

00:44:58.300 but no nonetheless the way you read it is the way is half of how people will read it by the way 0.82

00:45:03.240 this woman looks 14 like how like hot women are supposed to still look like babies right so she 0.99

00:45:10.300 almost looks like a little baby so it's like a pregnant baby being like i can help you have a 1.00

00:45:15.760 better to chew eating something you don't have to chew you know i'm saying like she's spoon feeding

00:45:21.620 herself it's like baby food yeah sorry i'm just gonna go quickly because i'm looking at a table

00:45:26.900 of contents give me more you are a co-creator the better baby plant ew and then such things as

00:45:33.080 you know what not to eat terrifying um but i'm also can't wait to see what if you and me did

00:45:38.860 the better baby book while we were birthing um you know creative projects like real sickos

00:45:44.340 yeah that'd be sick and twisted wait oh wait what's the font like of the cover yeah because

00:45:52.680 i have a theory i want you you said earlier the font said juilliard period i'm by the way i'm not

00:45:57.720 kidding it's similar to the i mean this is not an academic book there's no way so i would be

00:46:02.580 astonished if they didn't if they had a um had any serifs what's a serif it better not be anything

00:46:09.240 approaching handwriting no no it's not although you'd think you'd think i'm picturing a chalk

00:46:13.440 board with like chalk font the better woman's journal but it's but it's in a blue tone similar

00:46:18.040 to the juilliard sweatshirt from earlier which is like kind of modern kind of airy kind of

00:46:23.880 like a periwinkle headed towards aqua yeah it's periwinkle millennial blue a sort of yeah yeah

00:46:29.720 something like that what what millennial pink is yeah and by the way you know it's humiliating

00:46:33.800 this idea of millennial pink okay whatever fine there is a vast uh discrepancy among the pinks

00:46:41.500 that people are calling it even if you look online if you search millennial pink there's stuff from 0.84

00:46:45.400 peach to freaking bubble gum it's pathetic um sorry i'm getting distracted i have to look away 0.76

00:46:50.680 i just saw i just saw a um comment that said anti-vaccine otherwise great oh yeah you know 1.00

00:46:56.620 this bitch is going to be like that's classic this woman's going to be like i wouldn't do it 1.00

00:47:00.660 for my better baby but if you want a less better baby you could consider getting vaccinated ask 1.00

00:47:05.700 your doctor and so there's a lot of non-better babies that are might die because my better baby

00:47:10.980 were too scared of what this oh my god right anyway it's the ultimate my baby over your baby

00:47:16.920 model it's ultimate better baby model this book yeah and your baby my baby will be better than

00:47:22.300 your baby i mean well the classic things like a parent that believes their baby is exceptional

00:47:26.140 is all you know is damaging so heartbreaking um get a grip oh my god i mean i can't imagine

00:47:32.660 also the baby that's taught to read okay before they even know what reading is

00:47:36.820 then what's being robbed from them is the desire to read completely the natural curiosity that

00:47:43.360 should arise clawing towards they're gonna hate reading it's really sinister claw your way i mean

00:47:49.060 i remember when i was pre-reading and why is your baby going to be better so that it gets a job

00:47:53.320 like literally i'm sorry to interrupt but what is the what is the logical yeah it's like obviously

00:47:57.140 the capitalist thing of like well my baby's going to invent an app yeah so you're robbing them the

00:48:02.080 desire to read and then you're robbing them of the satisfaction of life on earth it's just clawing

00:48:06.580 after desires. Okay. Okay. Wow. Yeah. So for example, you know, I was, no one gave me the

00:48:13.140 baby program. And I remember having books in my room before I knew how to read. And I thought,

00:48:17.720 I wonder how you read. Okay. And I thought maybe reading, maybe sounding out words,

00:48:22.660 what you're doing, maybe it's saying the letters really fast. Wow. So like if cat is C-A-T,

00:48:29.100 so I'm looking at a word I'm going, I know it's a C and A and a T. I go, I go C-A-T, C-A-T.

00:48:33.880 Again, I'm like, perhaps that word is seti. 0.54

00:48:35.820 What seti?

00:48:36.380 Is that a word?

00:48:37.460 So cute.

00:48:38.200 I'm trying to figure it out on my own.

00:48:39.440 And here we go.

00:48:40.060 My fantasy of having you as my daughter.

00:48:42.000 Right.

00:48:42.260 And then the presence of the fantasy of me next to whatever your daughter would actually

00:48:46.740 be.

00:48:47.500 The secondary family, your older brother, so to speak.

00:48:50.240 And shadow.

00:48:51.400 Yeah.

00:48:51.700 Was it to shadow your id displaced?

00:48:53.780 Okay. 0.76

00:48:54.140 Yeah, I know.

00:48:55.140 Wait, but robbing the baby of the desire, right?

00:48:58.160 And similarly, the young prodigy.

00:48:59.960 I mean, for all of it, I love to claw.

00:49:02.560 Okay.

00:49:02.720 I love to claw my way to the top.

00:49:04.420 I'm a striver to the end.

00:49:05.660 So are you.

00:49:06.260 You're a striver.

00:49:07.100 We all are.

00:49:07.660 That's huge.

00:49:08.480 It's okay to be hungry.

00:49:09.900 Yes.

00:49:10.520 And it's okay to be a failure

00:49:11.840 and to be a non-prodigy, of course.

00:49:14.740 Thank you for listening.

00:49:15.480 This was fun.

00:49:15.960 This was a spirited conversation.

00:49:17.980 I'm excited to see if I win the Juilliard sweatshirt.

00:49:20.160 I did bid $30,

00:49:21.440 so I assume it will be rejected cruelly.

00:49:23.400 Imagine if you and I drive it up to $600 by morning.

00:49:30.080 Oh, love ya.

00:49:31.160 And love you, the listener.

00:49:32.720 I love you, listeners. Keep posting. Thank you so much.

00:49:36.380 That was POOG.

00:49:38.600 If you enjoyed POOG, please subscribe, rate, and review.

00:49:42.400 If not, we will press charges.

00:49:47.300 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:49:50.220 Guaranteed human.

Poog with Kate Berlant and Jacqueline Novak - January 05, 2021

Young Geniuses

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