00:00:53.240and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:00:58.760I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:01:02.380Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:01:09.920These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:01:13.740Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:21.360If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:01:27.080Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:01:35.740Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.
00:04:04.200that keep black and brown Georgians from voting.
00:04:07.540And it was all based on a big lie.0.95
00:04:10.440It's so important that we talk about this law for what it is0.56
00:04:12.980and the impact it will have on Georgians,
00:04:15.840which is something Anoa Changa knows firsthand.
00:04:19.000It was really rooted in self-determination for me.
00:04:21.620In 2017, Georgia was facing a closely-watched Democratic primary for governor
00:04:25.820between Stacey Abrams, a Black woman who, if she had won,0.99
00:04:29.460would have become the country's first Black woman governor,0.98
00:04:32.180and Stacey Evans, a white Georgia state representative.
00:04:35.460Both candidates were speaking at Netroots Nation, the largest gathering of progressive political organizers in the country, which was being held in Atlanta.
00:04:42.860Now, something to know about Netroots is that there is always a protest.
00:04:46.980It's basically expected at this point.
00:04:49.120And speeches always get interrupted by shouting.
00:04:51.660It's happened to Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, and Martin O'Malley.
00:04:55.720In 2017, at Netroots, I was a part of a group of folks who, you know, led a protest to shut down a speech that was being given by Stacey Evans, who was at the time running against Stacey Abrams for governor.
00:05:10.120And a lot of people thought it was just a bunch of old Stacey Abrams supporters who were shutting down this white woman.
00:05:15.940But that like at the time, I wasn't even like a Stacey fan. I wasn't even I was like, I'll probably vote for her.0.98
00:05:21.280but it wasn't anything. And so many folks, what it was, was really about Stacey Evans was trying
00:05:27.280to be positioned as like the more progressive choice. And she had a bunch of votes, including1.00
00:05:32.780some along education, which were extremely problematic, which she was not being held
00:05:37.140accountable on. And that day at Netroots, she was speaking before Becky Pringle, who was then the
00:05:44.100vice president of the NEA, the National Education Association. So you're someone who has been pro
00:05:51.640charter school, pro, you know, removing money out of education. You voted against the interests of
00:05:58.940teachers, students, families, unions. And you're speaking ahead of like this prominent
00:06:06.680national black woman that has been this advocate for education.0.99
00:06:14.100That's a NOAA alongside a group of black women interrupting Stacey Evans' planned speech.
00:06:21.740They're chanting, trust black women.0.98
00:06:24.260The incident came up in a tense debate between Evans and Abrams,0.99
00:06:27.860with Evans maintaining that what happened at Netroots was not a peaceful protest,
00:06:32.040and kind of implying that the group was affiliated with the Stacey Abrams campaign.
00:06:36.500And I support the right of folks to peacefully protest.
00:06:39.900That wasn't what happened at Netroots.
00:06:41.600And if something like that had happened to my opponent, whether the group was affiliated, unaffiliated, slightly affiliated, not affiliated at all, I would have stood up and said that it was wrong.
00:06:53.860But remember, Anoa says she wasn't even a big Abrams supporter at the time.
00:06:58.580Reporters just didn't really bother to talk to her or the group or find out more about their motivations or message and why they interrupted the speech.
00:07:07.740And this was hugely instructive for Anoa.
00:07:09.960Now, that didn't translate the way we thought it would, unfortunately, because no one in the media even cared to talk to us, to ask any of us about what happened, the way media reacted, like especially local media here in Georgia ran with a particular narrative.
00:07:26.000I mean, you even had like one one article written that just because I knew someone who was on staff, senior staff at Stacey's campaign, we had worked together previously, that because of that previous work relationship, they put me up to it.
00:07:38.780Without understanding that also when you're talking about Black progressive political work, there's so few people in these spaces, whether you're working in Black orgs or white-led orgs, it's just not that many of us.
00:07:50.480We all end up either knowing each other directly or having people in common.
00:07:53.980So that experience really taught me about the power and necessity for telling our own stories, making sure our voices were being heard.
00:08:02.660Today, Anoa is a pretty prolific independent journalist who covers elections and local politics in Georgia.
00:08:08.540But instead of covering them like a horse race between two politicians,
00:08:11.940she centers the people impacted by the policies.
00:08:14.960People whose stories are often overlooked in favor of stories about political point scoring and posturing.
00:08:20.620And when it comes to the new voting legislation in Georgia,
00:08:23.440this also means pointing out a lot of lies and distortions.
00:08:26.940When we're looking at what's happening here in this law, like I was saying,
00:08:31.040yes, you have the lies from the different state representatives and state senators.
00:08:34.920You have the lies from the various election officials, you know, in varied capacities.0.94
00:08:41.500But you have also our governor, who was the former secretary of state, who is known for his own shenanigans and foolishness.
00:08:50.280But I mean, he's someone who actually lied ahead of his own election for governor the weekend ahead of his election for governor.
00:08:56.440He lied and said that Stacey Abrams campaign and Democrats were trying to hack the state of Georgia, which was not true.
00:09:03.460An investigation later revealed that it was not true, and he has never been held accountable
00:09:19.760It's one thing to deal with and be able to point out a bold-faced lie, which we've seen
00:09:24.320in the testimony from Rudy Giuliani when he was in these various hearings in Michigan
00:09:28.400and here in Georgia, which we've seen, unfortunately, even in some of the testimony or some of
00:09:33.400the conversations happening in chambers in the passage of these bills by Republican elected
00:09:38.480officials. And I often harp on the secretary of state because everyone has, in terms of national
00:09:44.300media, has like lionized him and made him this very important figure. But at the same time,
00:09:49.680he gives credence and he finds ways to give legitimacy, even though he has certified the
00:09:56.800election, even though he has acknowledged there is no widespread fraud, even though he acknowledged
00:10:01.160And this is the most secure election George has ever had. All these other things. He will still say things that leave open the door, that act like there is legitimate concern. I mean, just even the widespread reporting of fraud that was happening, it was an issue. At some point, it's not just simply that people don't know the process and don't understand what's going on. It's people are being willfully obtuse.
00:10:23.980As I have for more than 25 years, I will stand with my fellow Georgians in pursuit of fairness.
00:10:32.780You see, I did so as a college student, speaking in the shadow of Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr.
00:10:38.640I did so as Democratic leader of the House of Representatives, and now I will do so as a private citizen.
00:10:44.960In the 2018 gubernatorial election in Georgia, Stacey Abrams acknowledged that her opponent, Brian Kemp, would be the next governor of Georgia.
00:10:52.680I watched her speech from Atlanta, where, full disclosure, I spent time in the state knocking doors for her campaign.
00:10:58.480During the election, Brian Kemp was Georgia's Secretary of State, which meant that he was in charge of overseeing his own election.
00:11:05.220As Secretary of State, Kemp purged over 1.4 million inactive voters with low-income and Black Georgians being the most likely to have their registrations canceled.
00:11:14.700He also oversaw 53,000 voter registrations being put on hold
00:11:19.000thanks to Georgia's exact match policy
00:11:40.740despite the state's population only being about 32% Black.
00:11:44.140Now, because of all this, Abrams has said the 2018 gubernatorial election was stolen from the Georgia voters.
00:11:50.460After the race, she formed Fair Fight, an organization aimed at increasing voter turnout and ensuring that all votes are accurately counted.
00:11:58.320It was hugely successful, and their work is often credited with securing the historic Democratic wins in Georgia this past election.
00:12:07.280Current Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger has compared what Abrams did to Trump's refusal to concede and pressuring officials to, quote, fine votes.
00:12:16.060In a recent USA Today op-ed, he calls Trump's refusal to concede a page out of Stacey Abrams' playbook, writing,
00:12:23.460Abrams' refusal to concede and her dogmatic conviction that her election was stolen had done significant damage to trust and election integrity in Georgia.
00:12:31.380You have Raffensperger recently writing an op-ed in the USA Today and in part of the rhetoric from him and one of his staffers, Gabe Sterling, blaming Stacey Abrams and saying that her fight around the 2018 election and ongoing lawsuit in the work affair fight is the same as Donald Trump, right?
00:12:49.020that false equivalency and so while that's not like this exactly the same as the outright bold
00:12:55.180face lying like saying like oh there was massive fraud happening in Fulton County or whatever at
00:13:01.360the same time it still lends credence it still gives legitimacy and because they did have the
00:13:07.780one brave stand which really was a matter of I don't want to go to jail because that's hella
00:13:11.920illegal like I mean let's just be real like Brad did not Brad did everything else in his power
00:13:17.860brad didn't want to go to jail because that's like telling someone to go find some votes this
00:13:22.040ain't scandal like that's jail right like this real life and so but they will they will still
00:13:28.660craft narratives they still will shift things that still give support and then people who are like oh
00:13:34.040well he's the secretary of state he's an elected official he should get some deference will cover
00:13:38.100and report what he says and does as if it's legitimate concern when in fact it's really just
00:13:43.240also in the furtherance of the Republican agenda, which we have seen very clearly over this past
00:13:50.740year. But I mean, you and I, you know, as folks who have been digging in and focusing and looking
00:13:56.040at the scourge that is disinformation, have seen how deeply entrenched and widespread it has been,
00:14:03.100particularly over the past several years, and the very deep digital networks that already exist,
00:14:09.240and like, you know, liberals and the left and progressives are way behind the eight ball. We
00:14:14.920react, unfortunately, to things where these people are very strategic. I mean, even I was reading
00:14:20.640an article this morning about one of the lawyers that was representing Trump with all that nonsense.
00:14:25.440She was actually one of the lawyers on that infamous phone call is now heading up or at
00:14:30.980least co-leading one of the efforts to attack H.R. 1. And so it's not just Georgia, right? You see
00:14:37.220this coordinated GOP attack on voting rights and really on democracy at this point, when we are
00:14:45.420having people lie and having those lies enshrined into law. And I mean, folks can say it happens in
00:14:51.760other capacities, but what's happening right now in terms of elections and election reform and how
00:14:57.940we are treating false allegations as valid considerations for passing law, it's a very
00:15:05.700scary precedent that's being set right now. I mean, it's so sad, but that's really been
00:15:11.100Trump's legacy, you know? After the election, I saw this poll from R Street that said that
00:15:15.480two-thirds of Republicans say the 2020 presidential election was invalid. And I think that's kind of
00:15:20.640the point of this kind of disinformation, to make people really distrust our democratic process to
00:15:25.440the point where they just sort of check out. Even in states where Trump won, right, we're still
00:15:32.140seeing that happen and unfold, right? Like in Iowa, we're still seeing a Republican majority
00:15:38.440in Iowa, even though Trump won that state. Let's take a quick break.
00:15:50.760Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat
00:15:55.960the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full,
00:17:14.860Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.
00:17:19.140I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.
00:17:23.720I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:17:31.340They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:17:35.240But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:17:38.680They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:17:42.320Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:17:50.100If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:17:57.000This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:18:09.180I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:18:16.300I'm going to have to look up this story.
00:19:32.220And any attack on identities is a direct attack on democracies.
00:19:36.280Like, we're still seeing them push through these types of laws.
00:19:39.700We're seeing it in Mississippi and Missouri.
00:19:42.320Like, we're still seeing it in areas that even,
00:19:44.280like they're seizing this isn't just about like oh we're upset because this happened this is a
00:19:49.420real opportunity point for them and this is like i really do think that we we ignore we forget like
00:19:55.260there's so much with so much focus on trump and resistance and getting trump out of office that
00:20:00.380these state legislatures these state you know capitals and governor seats we've ignored the
00:20:06.740way in which that very and deeply entrenched rhetoric has permeated at the state level
00:20:12.720And it's backed and funded by some of the usual suspects that we've been talking about over the last, you know, however many decades that fund and get behind these types of work.
00:20:23.440And what was really interesting, someone sent me an article recently that talked about, like, some of the major anti-abortion folks are also getting in the fight behind H.R.1.
00:20:32.960Like, so we also see, I had an article a couple of weeks back in Truthout just talking about how, like, when we're talking about voting rights and we're talking about what's happening in these fights, it literally isn't, we're talking about saving democracy. It's not just about voting rights, right? Like, it's about all these other opportunities and entry points.
00:20:49.100And we're seeing some of the worst legislation that is really denying people's humanity and right to exist when we see like the trans sports bills being passed in various places, when we see these various attacks on, you know, reproductive rights and freedom.
00:21:05.720And so we really have this much broader attack happening on democracy.
00:21:10.580And there are these various levels of lies.
00:21:12.980I mean, just thinking about the way the anti-abortion stuff happens, like so much of that is based on fear mongering around mistruths and disinformation as well.
00:21:24.340Right. So like it permeates across so much.
00:21:27.320In conversations about disinformation, it's tempting to focus on foreign bad actors like Russia.
00:21:31.720But sometimes that can lead us to overlook the massive coordination of domestic bad actors right here in our own country and the powerful networks of online distortions they have at their disposal.
00:21:41.700We spent so much time in 2017 post-election focusing on Russian interference, right, and Russian amplification of disinformation, but never looking at the disinformation itself, the domestic disinformation.
00:21:53.720And I think now, and I really appreciate like what you've been doing, like so many people
00:21:58.480have been like sounding the alarm on the danger of what is happening domestically.
00:22:03.720I think now maybe folks are starting to understand, but it's still being limited to Trump's big
00:22:10.040lie, which Trump's big lie is really having a grip on our national politic right now.
00:22:16.180But part of the reason why it's able to do so is because these networks have been able
00:22:20.400to thrive and have existed for so long and they're so deep and intense and so like it's a it takes
00:22:27.420it's a lot to like un peel back those layers i don't think people understand about like how
00:22:32.360people get targeted with disinformation particularly when they come after black latino and
00:22:37.720other folks of color um through the various mediums like i know you know latino folks
00:22:42.640have talked to me about like the use of whatsapp i think some asian folks too have talked about the
00:22:47.280use of WhatsApp groups, which are very common with both communities in terms of how they share
00:22:51.960and disseminate information. So what you end up happening is you might have somebody's auntie
00:22:55.900or whoever, who sees like this post or sees this thing. It's like, oh my God, did you see this? And
00:23:00.940then it, it spreads like wildfire, but like that information is not actually accurate, right? So
00:23:06.720we, there are these other ways that is very insidious and infiltrating trusted spaces
00:23:12.340um that somehow we have to figure out how do we help people become you know better sharers of
00:23:20.640information and really like see through because there are some things that might kind of make
00:23:25.580sense that that's like what's really tricky too right people will say things that might make sense
00:23:30.820like let's take for example the voter id stuff right so in the georgia law you know there's a
00:23:36.620new voter ID requirement for folks who are voting absentee ballot. And it will be like, well,
00:23:42.140what's wrong? You need ID for everything else. You need ID when you do this. Yes, you need ID.
00:23:46.860You need to prove who you are when you register. But once you've registered, like, why do I have
00:23:51.340to keep showing you the picture itself? Right? Like you need ID. You need ID when you go here.
00:23:57.600You need ID. Like, so people will do this thing. They're like, well, that makes sense.
00:24:00.760But the rhetoric, the rationalization has to do with fraud when the fraud has never been proven to be an actual issue. Right.
00:24:09.280Like so they I remember I remember doing some research during the election and like in Alabama, when Alabama was adapting its voter ID law,
00:24:18.040the NAACP Legal Defense Fund looked back 12 years prior to the year where they're trying to enact the law, trying to see how many fraud cases there were.
00:24:24.700There was only like one or two in a 12 year period. Right. And so like they will use the presence of like one or two and they'll be like, well, see, there's an issue because this one or two happened.
00:24:35.260Or someone made a comment about people changing, you know, ballots, but it was a Republican postal man in West Virginia that was changing people's request ballots.
00:24:45.860And but it was caught. Right. That's the other thing. Right.
00:24:48.460The very rare instances where things happen, the people doing it are caught like almost right away.
00:24:55.760Right. Because of the mechanisms already built into the system.
00:24:59.120So media frustrates me, too, because how they report these things as if they're valid considerations on all sides, when really the only side we need to be thinking about is like democracy.
00:25:09.260Right. And what does it mean to uphold and protect democracy?
00:25:12.740And how could you ever justify and rationalize and say you're protecting democracy by keeping people out?
00:25:18.940Yeah, I mean, you can't, you know, in a democracy, you want to expand voting access.
00:25:24.760You want to make it easier and get rid of barriers that people have to vote, not enact more.
00:25:30.300And it was really disingenuous to see a statement today, I think from Kemp, who was like, you know, oh, we're widening the ability for people to vote.
00:25:39.480We're expanding it. And it's just a lie.
00:25:42.880I mean, there is not a way that you can look at that and see the kinds of barriers that
00:25:48.860this legislation puts in place and try with a straight face to say that you're actually
00:25:53.240trying to make it easier for people to vote.
00:25:55.080If that's the case, why are you threatening souls to the polls?
00:25:57.980Why have you made it so to make it harder for people to give water to folks standing
00:29:44.200and coordinating and releasing these memes and stuff, right?
00:29:47.920And so like, I mean, that type of stuff has been happening.
00:29:52.420And so to my point about the Russia stuff, like what was happening with the Russia stuff and its place in the conversation, it really overshadowed the mass volume of what was happening domestically.
00:30:04.920And so people had years now unchecked to perfect that domestic system. And we're really seeing it rear its head in coordination with just the regular conservative, you know, legislative organizing that already happens.
00:30:20.360Like, you know, you used to people used to talk about like you would see the ALEC bills that basically was the same boilerplate language in multiple states across the country.
00:30:29.020They're a little bit more savvy now because we're seeing similar things happening across the country.
00:30:36.780Can you tell us some of what's in this law?
00:30:38.500Some of the most insidious parts of the law here in Georgia, it removes the secretary of state as the head of the state board of elections.
00:30:46.400State board of elections is a five person body.
00:30:48.760The General Assembly appoints two of those people. The General Assembly will now appoint a majority three of the five with the removal of the secretary of state as the chair.
00:30:59.040So our Republican-controlled legislature will now, in effect, control the state election board, which the state election board sets down election purview regulations for the entire state, which is how we select our members of a General Assembly.
00:31:14.200And, you know, there's a brilliant lawyer here that I that I follow and really look to for guidance, Sarah Tindall-Gazal.
00:31:20.740And she was just pointing out in one of the hearings, like how ridiculous it is.
00:31:24.700One of, you know, the proponent Bill's proponents, Barry Fleming, was like, well, I mean, the governor appoints the entire board of regents, the governor appoints the transportation board.
00:31:34.020And she's just like, OK, I guess I got to explain this to you.
00:31:37.280But that's fine. The governor appoints those bodies.
00:31:41.580But you all appointing the people who set the rules for how you all hold office isn't really like you're appointing your own referees and then we're expecting them to hold you accountable.
00:31:57.160Here's how one voter described her voting experience in Georgia.
00:32:00.960I don't feel like this is happening at all polls.
00:32:03.500I'm in a 30331 zip code and I feel like most of the problems that occurred, and this is what we
00:32:09.880were told, that certain polling locations have problems. And I do believe it's, I think it's
00:32:16.360targeted. Another thing they did that directly targets Fulton County in particular is forbidding
00:32:22.100the use of mobile vans for voting, mobile voting. This was also something that was done in Harris
00:32:27.100County in Texas. And so like that helps because, you know, Fulton County, Gwinnett County, the
00:32:33.600Metro Atlanta counties in particular are often burdened with the very long lines. And so mobile
00:32:39.080voting was something that was implemented to help alleviate some of that. So it's basically setting
00:32:43.240up a mobile polling site. So that was, that helped alleviate some of that. So like when they're
00:32:47.820talking about, oh, we're making it easier. How are you making it easier when you're restricting
00:32:51.600the time period within which people have to request an absentee ballot and return it? Because
00:32:56.640if you really wanted to make it easier, you could have adopted a policy that several states have
00:33:00.560where you return the absentee ballot as long as it's postmarked on election day or the day before
00:33:05.940election day, as long as it's received at a particular time period, it would still count.
00:33:09.340They could have went that route. So there are things that they could have done,
00:33:12.460but they chose more restrictive means. Now, a lot of the headlines about this bill have pointed out
00:33:17.100that it puts new restrictions on how volunteers can do things like give water or snacks or a chair
00:33:21.500to people waiting in long lines to vote. But it's even more worrisome than it sounds.
00:33:26.640So for folks who might not be familiar, like line warming is what you keep in line where you keep people comfortable who are standing in line.
00:33:34.620I remember in 2018, the New Georgia Project and some of their electric protection folks, they literally sent a mariachi band to one line to keep people entertained because they were waiting in line so long.
00:33:45.800And so because we have these long lines, because depending upon the weather, if it's in like, you know, spring, because we have very warm spring time here in Georgia, or if it's very cold for whatever reason or raining, you know, people have handed out ponchos, people have handed out hand warmers, food, like snacks.
00:34:02.360I mean, you have pizzas to the polls. You have the chef for the polls with Chef Jose Andres started the chef to the polls this past cycle, too.
00:34:10.420So you have these other things that people are doing and they have tried to compare it to partisan electioneering in the past.
00:34:18.420And you even had Brad Roethlisberger telling media that it was, in fact, illegal and a felony.
00:34:23.500So before the state actually made it illegal, you had the secretary of state telling people that it was illegal and you had people being harassed accordingly because of his misinterpretation, misstatements of law.
00:34:34.120So now that it is illegal to be within 150 feet, that's to say why that that hundred feet, why I keep harking on that is because that is the same distance that if you're representing a party or a candidate, you have to be away.
00:34:48.040So they have compared nonpartisan activity to partisan activity. And that's a very real attack on black and brown and other organizers of color who have been trying to help alleviate what we see.
00:35:00.120you know, you don't want people to be discouraged. So I will also note that because there's not
00:35:05.580anything clear cut in law and like voting rights law, period, the way people have tried to kind
00:35:11.700of just protect themselves and make sure they don't end up being accused of violating any type
00:35:16.700of federal laws, because it has been a law, I think since the 40s, that you cannot give anyone
00:35:23.300of something of value for their vote. And so unfortunately, because of the discretion involved
00:35:29.760and are interpreting, you know, a secretary of state like Brad Raffensperger could interpret
00:35:34.140that as, you know, giving something to someone of value because they're in line to vote,
00:35:39.460which it's like, whatever, it's a stretch, but whatever.
00:35:42.660So how a lot of folks have dealt with that is like anyone in the vicinity, whether it's
00:35:46.200the poll workers, if you're at some place that has security, if there are other people
00:35:49.960passing through the general community, anyone can get anything we're giving out no matter
00:35:56.260and you know when I when I got a I got some quotes when I was writing the article like from
00:36:00.460a piece of the poll folks one of the things they said was we see this as a way of incentivizing
00:36:04.660civic engagement in the general community so we'll provide it to anyone right and I know that
00:36:09.320several lawyers have advised people that that was the best way to handle it as well but now
00:36:13.800it doesn't matter who you're giving it to regardless just the very act of being close
00:36:19.300to the poll location they have now decided to criminalize and that is a very clear attack
00:36:23.640in a very real way at something that is very commonly known to be seen as an added value
00:36:30.700and benefit to communities. And so we're seeing this a very real attack, not just simply on
00:36:36.180democracy, but on our participation as people of color who are exercising and leveraging that
00:36:41.980power. And a lot of folks are comparing this to Jim Crow. And I'd really be interested in talking
00:36:47.020to some historians just to learn more about that post, that early, the pre, you know, 50s, 60s
00:36:53.400civil rights era. So like, you know, the late 1800s to like the 1940s, 1950s, because it seems
00:36:58.560like in some ways we're really in that period, like post-Reconstruction, where we saw very
00:37:03.160blatant active attempts to strip Black political power from communities. This attempt to strip
00:37:09.280Black communities of power via curbing access to voting is nothing new. After the Civil War,
00:37:14.400during Reconstruction, Black folks were attacked by racist poll taxes and literacy tests and other
00:37:20.120barriers to make it harder for us to vote. According to the Brennan Center, even though
00:37:24.260these laws are over a century old, as recently as 2012, 46 states allowed for voter challenges,
00:37:31.160laws that allowed any private citizen to challenge the eligibility of prospective voters
00:37:35.660on or before Election Day. Now, these kinds of barriers to voting have never gone down without
00:37:40.760a fight. Organizations like Black Voters Matter, led by Cliff Albright, have already challenged
00:37:46.700Georgia's new law on the grounds that it will unfairly hurt Black and brown voters.
00:37:51.160So it's going to be interesting about how some of this stuff even stands up in court. New Georgia0.50
00:37:56.840Project, Black Voters Matter Fund, and RISE all filed. They filed a joint suit the same night
00:38:02.860that Kemp signed the bill. So it's going to be interesting to see how that moves forward and
00:38:06.360unfolds um but but the the voter challenges so so basically and this is like something that used to
00:38:11.940happen in the old days too like you could just go in or really white people could just go in and be
00:38:16.620like no that person can't vote for whatever reason or whatever and you would literally have to have
00:38:21.720like a white person like someone come vouch for you and so it's something very similar like they
00:38:25.960can come in and just challenge anyone for any reason and that is very um intimidating it's
00:38:32.440very stressful that is something that actually is very insidious
00:38:36.360It also kind of feels like an attack on some aspects of the Black way of life.
00:38:41.240I know I have older women in my life who I call auntie and drop off mail and groceries and prescriptions for,
00:38:47.380who are not actually my blood relatives.0.89
00:38:50.120And I wouldn't be able to touch their ballots.
00:38:53.340You can't have other people collecting your ballots for you.
00:38:56.680And again, that might even sound logical to people, but you have some folks.
00:39:01.080What about people who can't get around and get out, right?
00:39:04.300Like, we all know folks. So, like, if I know people in my general, like, life, unless I'm directly related in a household with them, I can't touch their ballot for them, right? But if they don't have anyone, and a lot of us live in families and community like that, right? Where we have Ms. So-and-so who, no, I'm technically not related to her, but she's still my auntie or she's still my grandma or whoever, and it's not anything nefarious.
00:39:28.300nefarious. For Anoa, the root of this is so obvious. It's racist. The root of it all is0.92
00:39:34.920they are afraid that they won't win elections unless they do this. It's not like, hi, I should
00:39:40.220adopt better policies, or maybe I need to not be so extremist in our positions. It's like, no,
00:39:45.960we just need to do whatever we can to retain and maintain power and make sure them darkies don't.1.00
00:39:52.080because that's really what it is really what it is like you know we talk about it but it's like1.00
00:40:00.340you and i both know what's up right like it's so clear no like no one wants to come out and say it
00:40:06.180they don't say it they dance around it but it's clear that's what's happening anybody anybody can
00:43:55.940that held like, I think upwards of a hundred slaves.
00:43:59.580like that. And then, I mean, also you have him flanked by six white men, which I believe,
00:44:06.180just take a quick glance, and that's like six people who are above House and Senate leadership.0.76
00:44:12.160I mean, the fact that, you know, the leadership of our government is all white men in a rapidly0.86
00:44:18.560diversifying state like Georgia is quite telling. I mean, that's the other thing, right? Like there0.96
00:44:23.520is this real fear that they are losing power and that's at the heart of it. But we know what
00:44:28.200happens when white fear controls policy, right? We've seen it. We've seen, you know, folks can
00:44:35.900act like, oh, the KKK or white supremacy is just some extreme outside thing. But unfortunately,
00:44:43.280a lot of those same tenets, a lot of those same attitudes influence when we're looking at the
00:44:48.220way in which people are charged with various crimes or we're looking at the decisions that
00:44:52.180are being made. We're looking at the way in which our children are treated in public schools.
00:44:56.240We see the very deep rooted nature of white supremacy across so many facets of society. So we can't just, you know, it's not enough to just say this is Trump's big lie. Like it's so much more than that happening. And I'm just really like excited for the work that you're doing and the conversations you've been having around disinformation, because we really need to understand how these systems are operating and what role do we all have to play.
00:45:23.940And we really should take that role seriously. I really do believe that we all have a role to play in fighting against misinformation. It doesn't matter if you are aligned ideologically. If you're a conservative, if you're someone who believes in more moderate or conservative values, you should want people telling the truth. You should want facts. You should not want to exist with people distorting information and blatantly lying. It's a wild time we're in.
00:47:38.420But also, like, with a boycott, and, you know, I had folks, folks, like,
00:47:42.020well, you know, they did it in the 80s with Coca-Cola.
00:47:44.180That was a part of a very strategic effort around divestment from South Africa.
00:47:48.060Right. And I do remember as a kid, we did not drink Coca-Cola or wear Reeboks because of divestment.
00:47:54.340That's like the only thing like I really remember, you know, being a young child in the 80s that and then by the early 90s,
00:48:01.680a different world episode where one of the characters had to give up or chose to give up a scholarship because the company had not divested from South Africa.
00:48:10.460economic accountability, economic corporate boycotts, that stuff can work, but it's strategic.
00:48:15.900It has to be led by impacted people who are very clear on what the goals are. I think Senator
00:48:23.100Warnock actually said this really well in an interview recently. They're so busy asking
00:48:28.480Democrats about why the filibuster is a filibuster. It's like, why aren't you asking Republicans
00:48:33.440about why they're not protecting voting rights, like why they don't care? I think that's what,
00:48:37.620But where we all go, I think we need to have a very clear commitment and understanding that democracy is not just some stagnant thing that just exists.
00:48:47.600It is really an active process that requires us to play a very clear, consistent role.
00:48:52.960So whether that's just being involved in, you know, even if it's being involved in your kids, like if there's like a local school council or something for your district or your school or if it's, you know, when you can have the time.
00:49:05.500Because I also, I mean, I've been a single mom my entire adult life.
00:49:09.180I had my daughter when I was 20, almost my entire adult life.
00:49:13.100I'm not going to discount the years their dad was around.
00:49:15.460But like I, you know, so I get being busy, right?
00:49:18.840Like I get having multiple competing things.
00:49:21.500You know, I've taken care of other people in addition to my kids.
00:49:23.800So I understand having other things pressing on us, but we can still find a way to write
00:49:29.140off that letter to, you know, now with the technology, it's so easy.
00:49:33.680You can automatically send out the texts to do stuff, the auto-populate, the emails.
00:49:39.540I mean, we can follow and support the work of Black and other organizers of color, not
00:49:47.480just here in Georgia, because yes, there are amazing people in Georgia, but you know what?1.00
00:49:50.700There are awesome folks throwing down all over the South and really all over the country.
00:49:55.160I think between Georgia and the Midwest, not to exclude anyone else, the South and the
00:49:59.580Midwest. I've met some of the most prolific organizers really grinding and working at
00:50:04.340multiple intersections of crisis right now because we still do, we're still in the middle of a
00:50:08.960pandemic and we have the democracy issues and then just the regular issue-based work that people are
00:50:14.580doing. So I think about folks like Mississippi Votes, the People's Advocacy Institute led by
00:50:22.540rakia lumumba and mississippi folks is rica bennett um i think about work over in louisiana0.95
00:50:28.320um i mean and up in wisconsin you have uh uh lit leaders igniting transformation and block black
00:50:38.740leaders organizing communities and those are both organizations that have worked um around multiple
00:50:44.380issues as well as elections and civic engagement while at the same time holding space for community
00:50:49.060in the middle of a pandemic and so these types of groups exist all over some of them may be smaller
00:50:54.860and may not be as well funded and that's definitely where you like your support i mean like
00:50:58.680we act like you know donations don't matter but like financial freedom riders are a thing in my
00:51:04.240opinion um it's definitely necessary not all of us can get there and be there physically in person
00:51:10.860not everybody has to be on the front line that's one of the things i appreciate about the pandemic
00:51:14.740too i think that folks have learned there are different ways that you can contribute and being
00:51:18.980like literally on the front line is not the only thing of value you can do. Can you feed some folks
00:51:24.480every once in a while? That's also really valuable. So, I mean, I just think as we're
00:51:28.500wrapping up, like, you know, and just thinking about where to go next, also sharing good
00:51:32.440information, sharing podcasts and, you know, like yours, sharing articles, like the ones I write,
00:51:37.760like that goes a long way because we don't necessarily have the same distribution networks
00:51:41.960that the other side does. And so we need to get our information out there. I'll just share a real
00:51:47.260quick personal story. Like I've had these conversations with my mother about sharing
00:51:51.300bad information about COVID, whether the vaccine or whatever. And she, and it's the same thing.
00:51:56.760They target black folks. It sounds kind of right, right? Like it makes kind of sense. They get you1.00
00:52:02.700hooked in, but like I had to walk through with my mom. I had to point her to black doctors she1.00
00:52:07.400should be following. And one thing she said was she goes, well, if they're saying such good0.91
00:52:10.780information, why isn't their information being shared everywhere? I said, unfortunately, because
00:52:15.320the way these algorithms work, the way the sharing systems work. She was like, oh, well,
00:52:21.140so taking the time to just talk to our folks, right? Like that's super critical.
00:52:25.680A lot of people have said the Black vote saved us from Trump. Now it's time for all of us to
00:52:31.080help protect it. If you're fired up and ready to get involved, check out the New Georgia Project,
00:52:35.980a group that works to protect voting access in Georgia, at thenewgeorgiaproject.org.
00:52:45.320If you enjoyed this podcast, please help us grow by subscribing.
00:52:54.480Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi?
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00:53:00.960Disinformed is brought to you by There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:53:03.680It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:53:06.560Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.
00:53:08.720Tari Harrison is our supervising producer and engineer.
00:53:11.680Michael Amato is our contributing producer.