There Are No Girls on the Internet - LulaRoe used social media to prey on vulnerable women

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00:00:17.020 And will you finish Episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

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00:00:50.080 I survived nine months in captivity,

00:00:53.240 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:00:58.760 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:01:02.380 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:01:09.920 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:01:13.740 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:01:21.360 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:01:27.080 Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:01:35.740 Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.

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00:01:51.160 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:03.540 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:08.700 So this month, Amazon Prime dropped a highly anticipated documentary series called Lula Rich,

00:02:14.140 breaking down LuLaRoe, the multi-level marketing company that sold buttery soft leggings

00:02:18.840 and dreams of girl boss entrepreneurship to thousands of women all over the country.

00:02:24.140 Now, I don't think I need to tell you that this turned out to be kind of a huge scam. 0.50

00:02:27.360 The Washington State Attorney General filed a class action lawsuit against LuLaRoe,

00:02:31.820 calling them a pyramid scheme.

00:02:33.600 And in February of this year, LuLaRoe agreed to pay $4.74 million to settle.

00:02:38.800 And it kind of also seems like a cult.

00:02:41.560 From gaslighting motivational seminars to LuLaRoe's founder, Deanne,

00:02:45.760 pressuring women to travel to Mexico for weight loss surgery

00:02:48.640 to maintain a picture-perfect presence, 0.99

00:02:51.380 all in the service of selling the lie 1.00

00:02:53.180 that LuLaRoe was a ticket to working moms 1.00

00:02:55.380 being able to live happy, fulfilled, and balanced lives.

00:02:58.600 Now, what's so interesting about LuLaRoe 1.00

00:03:00.240 is the women that got involved in it. 0.98

00:03:02.000 And it's clear the company preys on a type, 1.00

00:03:04.240 educated, ambitious moms, and it's pretty clear why. 1.00

00:03:07.160 There just isn't a lot of societal support 1.00

00:03:09.180 for moms who want to do wage-earning work. 1.00

00:03:11.340 In America, we don't have paid leave. 0.60

00:03:13.380 We don't have access to affordable childcare solutions

00:03:15.800 for parents who work. 1.00

00:03:16.980 That creates this real vulnerability for women that can be deeply exploited.

00:03:21.720 Now, if you've seen the documentary, which I definitely recommend you check out,

00:03:24.960 then you probably already know Roberta Blevins,

00:03:27.400 the hilariously straightforward former LuLaRoe retailer turned anti-MLM advocate. 0.98

00:03:32.860 Roberta once had 75 LuLaRoe retailers working under her.

00:03:36.600 And when she left the company, her goal was to get at least 75 people to leave.

00:03:41.440 And now on her podcast, Life After MLM, Roberta helps so many more

00:03:46.060 see the ways that multi-level marketing companies like LuLaRoe use tools like social media to prey

00:03:51.380 on women who are already vulnerable. So I binged watched the LuLaRoe documentary on Amazon Prime.

00:03:59.340 I watched it. It seemed like it went by in like 20 minutes, even though it was four episodes.

00:04:04.960 My first question is, the reaction has been so huge. You know, I was reading the piece in Variety

00:04:11.600 that quotes you what is your response to seeing this huge reaction to the film lula rich well

00:04:18.180 okay so i was on the phone with lache last night and we were talking about this exact thing

00:04:21.960 and uh she's like girl i knew it would be number one eventually and i said right but i just didn't

00:04:29.040 know it would happen so fast so that's sort of how i feel about it like this has been the last

00:04:32.980 four years of my life they don't really go into it in the documentary but from the day i left

00:04:37.280 LuLaRoe, I started speaking out against them. I started exposing them. I've been probably public

00:04:42.740 enemy number one for the past four years. I did the Vice documentary. I've talked to Bloomberg.

00:04:47.740 I've helped with a lot of the, you know, sources say, I'm a lot of those sources. I have a lot of

00:04:55.160 sources. I've shared a lot of things. I've done a lot of stuff. So for me, like, I sort of kind

00:05:02.380 of like expected it on in my small realm because i have been talking about this and i have been

00:05:07.480 like promoting it in like the anti-mlm communities and like that small niche um but like like i said

00:05:13.320 like i didn't expect it to sort of seep out of our community quite so quickly um and i'm just

00:05:21.940 i'm really excited because i just think people need to hear the story and it's this is just

00:05:26.980 literally like the tip of the iceberg and just a little bit of a scratch like there's so much

00:05:31.320 more stuff there was so much more stuff in this than there was in vice and there's so much more

00:05:35.820 stuff that hasn't been uncovered yet that i'm just really excited to see what other creators

00:05:40.580 and people discover and create from this moment forward totally so like what are some of the

00:05:45.800 things that you're thinking like oh if they were to do a part two like they gotta mention this i

00:05:49.780 wish they mentioned that like for instance i was watching this really dark youtube video that went

00:05:55.420 into detail about the weight loss surgeries that that deanne was like prompting folks to get and i

00:06:00.700 was like wow they didn't really get into like how seedy and dark that is like what are some of the

00:06:05.560 stuff that you're like oh they do a part two they gotta include this you know that was one of the

00:06:09.940 things like there was not a lot of stuff about the weight loss surgery i think it was like glazed

00:06:13.700 over which i get you know um it there there's a lot there um dm has taken a lot of people down

00:06:19.240 there on their website on facebook their facebook page of this place there are so many before and

00:06:24.820 after photos of women in lula road like it's very obvious um where they're coming from there's

00:06:30.180 sometimes there's LuLaRoe business signs are like in the photos too,

00:06:33.080 and they're wearing the clothes.

00:06:34.260 And so it's very obvious.

00:06:35.200 And Deanne has admitted to taking children as young as 13 down there to get

00:06:40.200 weight loss surgery as well. 0.71

00:06:41.920 Yeah.

00:06:42.180 So that's a lot of stuff that like just was not included,

00:06:45.280 but I understand like,

00:06:47.520 I don't know,

00:06:47.940 this thing literally could have been 10 episodes.

00:06:50.600 I'm not even joking.

00:06:51.300 It could have been 10 episodes and I still probably would be sitting here

00:06:55.440 going,

00:06:55.800 and they forgot to add this too.

00:06:57.600 there was one of the things that bothered me and I was already out when this happened but there was

00:07:02.540 a lot of times and we see it with influencers too a lot of times when you have a lot of power and a

00:07:07.440 lot of influence in a company or on a platform you can get away with murder not technically like

00:07:12.960 actually murder but you can get away with a lot of things and that was happening a lot and running

00:07:17.920 rampant in LuLaRoe and we thought that that wasn't really fair people were being terminated

00:07:22.280 for like using the wrong fonts and the wrong colors and then somebody could go on a live

00:07:26.440 and um basically mock someone with special needs and lularoe would side with them and say well

00:07:33.220 they use lularoe as their the way they feed their family and they said they were sorry so

00:07:37.500 we're not going to terminate them um there was somebody who was like telling a deaf person they

00:07:45.320 should just turn it up if she can't hear them and just really just obnoxious obnoxious stuff

00:07:51.240 that made me wonder like are can do you know people can see you like you know this is like

00:07:58.900 live in public like people can see you do this why are you doing this and again lularoe would

00:08:04.720 always side with them uh there was a huge thing with the national down syndrome society where the

00:08:09.160 national down syndrome society said um you either terminate this couple that mocked special needs

00:08:15.140 or we'll terminate our our our partnership we'll terminate our partnership with you

00:08:20.980 and um lularoe said like i said well he already apologized and and you know he made them so much

00:08:27.940 money they they sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of stuff they made them so much

00:08:31.720 money and lularoe sided with them and the national down syndrome the national down syndrome society

00:08:37.360 put out a statement saying that they were entering ending their partnership with lularoe it's all on

00:08:41.640 like you can find all of this online um they were ending their partnership with lularoe

00:08:45.760 because they didn't feel that lularoe um was really willing to accept that this was bad and

00:08:51.680 that they were gonna they were gonna side with somebody that had done bad things and it was

00:08:55.340 against everything that they were going because the person that he mocked had down syndrome and

00:08:59.540 or he was mocking special needs and then he used someone with down syndrome as a prop in his

00:09:05.920 apology yeah yeah it's great yeah it's great so um I know it's just like so LuLaRoe sided with or

00:09:15.480 LuLaRoe sided with this couple and the National Down Syndrome Society said we're going to end

00:09:20.880 our partnership and this beautiful statement um and then about an hour later LuLaRoe came out

00:09:25.700 with their statement which was pretty much the exact opposite and they said that the reason

00:09:29.300 that LuLaRoe had decided to end the partnership with the National Down Syndrome Society

00:09:33.700 oh interesting right was that LuLaRoe felt that the National Down Syndrome Society's um

00:09:40.900 mission was too narrow because they only wanted to help people with Down Syndrome

00:09:44.900 and LuLaRoe wanted to help everyone and I feel like that's the first like example of like an

00:09:50.780 all lives matter kind of thing right yeah and I remember like when I was like oh my god like

00:09:56.400 they were the first ones like what the hell man I mean that story really does crystallize how

00:10:02.740 good they are at twisting the truth to make themselves look like they're the the the more

00:10:08.320 like noble or like the people who are like doing right like in that documentary i was like they

00:10:13.780 must have taken hours of like pr coaching to the way they twist words and twist stories where it's

00:10:21.260 like oh actually i just wanted to cut these people in because it was such a good deal like

00:10:25.340 blah blah blah like how they're able to twist everything so that they're so virtuous i really

00:10:30.240 I don't have to give them props for that.

00:10:34.260 It is so amazing.

00:10:35.560 I mean, I will say I was sitting there watching the documentary, obviously.

00:10:38.800 I was watching it.

00:10:40.020 And there was, I mean, I lived it.

00:10:42.900 So there was really nothing shocking to me.

00:10:44.640 The only shocking thing that I really experienced were hearing the depositions.

00:10:50.100 So I had read the depositions.

00:10:51.720 I was a part of that lawsuit.

00:10:53.140 They also, they don't bring that up either.

00:10:54.320 But I was a witness against LuLaRoe in the Washington Pyramid King lawsuit.

00:10:57.500 And I helped with the investigation with the team.

00:11:00.240 incredible team. Bob and his team are fantastic. Really, really one of the coolest experiences.

00:11:07.060 And it was the very first time that their anti-pyramid scheme law had ever been tried.

00:11:12.680 And it was with Julio. And it was like a history making case. And they'd had it on the books for

00:11:16.180 like 10 plus years. And it was the first time that it had ever been tried. So it was really,

00:11:19.220 really cool. I'm really proud of that. And they settled in February for 4.75 million.

00:11:25.120 uh the 0.75 went to pay for the three-year investigation so Washington took a hit on that

00:11:30.780 um they all basically just did it at cost and then the four million went into a restitution fund

00:11:36.100 and checks went out I think in August so everybody should have their checks right now

00:11:40.280 the most shocking thing to me in this documentary because I had read the depositions because I had

00:11:45.640 you know I I know what they had said but I had never heard the tone in which it was said

00:11:51.360 and so I knew that Deanne was like oh she only got two likes that's sad but I thought she was

00:11:56.320 saying I thought she was saying it in like a oh that's like hearing it I was like oh and then

00:12:02.680 hearing others the way that she said others it was just so cold and knowing her and being around

00:12:10.700 her and having conversations with her like I never met that person I saw the the person

00:12:18.400 the person on the videos but I never saw like calculated cold and so that to me just the way

00:12:26.020 that Deanne answered questions was literally the most shocking thing for me yeah it was it was

00:12:31.880 almost hard to watch also the level to which she really is like oh I don't recall I don't know like

00:12:36.760 I don't know what that means it's like wow for somebody who was running this like business you

00:12:40.680 really don't know any of the specifics of what went on interesting now one thing that really

00:12:46.240 shocked me about Lula Rich were the scenes of LuLaRoe's founders being deposed in court.

00:12:50.860 Basically, they really use the old, I don't recall, trick to avoid incriminating themselves.

00:12:56.060 And it turns out selective amnesia to avoid accountability is a big part of the brand.

00:13:01.520 That even includes their founders kind of pretending to not know Jordan Brady,

00:13:05.840 their own family member and a LuLaRoe higher up who was caught on camera saying the company was

00:13:10.760 trying to distance itself from being a pyramid scheme. Yeah, one of the things that we

00:13:16.220 had to prove this is so ridiculous but one of the things that that we were tasked to prove

00:13:20.280 in the pyramid scheme lawsuit was that jordan brady actually worked at lularoe because he had

00:13:25.640 said in you know you see that he had said that we need to get away from being a pyramid scheme

00:13:29.060 and so they wanted to distance themselves from him as much as possible he is like deanne's

00:13:34.560 youngest biological son and they were like who's jordan and he is who again wow i'm sorry did he

00:13:41.880 work here? I don't recall. And so some of the evidence that I sent over were like emails

00:13:48.240 between Jordan and I about me getting onboarded and having questions about things. And I was like,

00:13:53.220 and then a screenshot of him and I with my old upline doing a webinar, like an official LuLaRoe,

00:13:59.940 LuLaFamous webinar. And he and I are in that photo. And I said, here, is this the Jordan

00:14:04.880 we're saying doesn't work here? Wow. So yeah, you know, it's everybody else's fault, 1.00

00:14:11.680 with LuLaRoe? Always. You know, I have to ask, like I made one podcast about LuLaRoe and MLMs

00:14:18.260 years ago, and I've covered so many different things. Like I've covered Nazis and like some

00:14:24.180 of the worst people on the internet. But the time that I talked negatively about LuLaRoe,

00:14:30.200 I don't think I've ever gotten more hate correspondence, more emails. And I know that

00:14:34.780 you, you know, people come after you as well. Like, do you ever get scared or like, what is it

00:14:40.040 like to really be trying to hold folks accountable and just tell the truth of what you've experienced

00:14:46.260 and what you saw and know that there's going to be an army of people who are very very invested

00:14:51.420 in proving you wrong like what is that like i mean i have the receipts so i'm not super worried you

00:14:57.200 know it's really funny i've seen so many things said about me that are so unbelievably not even

00:15:01.820 close to being true um i was accused of running a hate-fueled hate cult that was fun i know

00:15:09.200 I was like, okay, all right. That's me. Yeah. I hate cult. I was like, I hate cult.

00:15:17.000 Someone on my TikTok went after me the other night saying that I was a liar and that I'm

00:15:23.300 still a hun and that I'm still scamming people. And that I'm just mad. She said, she's just mad

00:15:30.860 that someone exposed this scam and her $60,000 checks dried up. And I said, one, I've never had

00:15:37.980 a $60,000 check. And two, I was the one that left and exposed it. Like, that was me. The one you're

00:15:45.920 saying, expose it. That's me. How can it be the same person? So it's just like ridiculous things.

00:15:50.820 People don't want to listen to the truth. People don't want, she was telling my, my, my timeline

00:15:54.100 was all over the place. I'm like, okay. She's like, I'm super anti MLM and your timeline is

00:15:59.040 super sus. And my followers were like, you're clearly not anti MLM. This woman has been speaking

00:16:04.520 out for four years. She has another movie. There's, there's no way you don't know who she is. If

00:16:08.620 you're actually super anti MLM, like you claim, it was a brand new account. It was one person

00:16:13.080 following like no pictures, no anything. I mean, it's a hunt. It's a hunt. It's a hunt getting on

00:16:19.600 TikTok on my account, hoping to convince new people that don't know me, don't follow me,

00:16:26.640 don't know my story, don't know my history, that I'm suspicious. And that's what I say in the

00:16:32.760 documentary is most likely lies and that people should investigate me. And I was like, all you

00:16:38.340 have to do is Google my name. Like literally everything is there. Literally. I don't hide

00:16:44.600 any of the stuff that I've uncovered. And I don't just uncover LuLaRoe, I uncover MLMs. 0.98

00:16:48.760 And so it's funny to me, I get all kinds of hate from like other MLMs. I'm talking about

00:16:52.340 black oxygen organics. I got a hate email the other day that said, we're coming for you. You 0.91

00:16:56.700 should have never spoke about boo. And I was like, all right, bring it. It's just weird stuff. You

00:17:00.800 know like they went to all of the the review sites amazon rotten tomatoes and imdb and they

00:17:09.440 all mass reported and like mass downvoted and and gave him one star reviews and just said like how

00:17:16.760 ridiculous it is and i mean it's not normal like it's not you know you watch going clear or you

00:17:23.680 watch like aftermath or you listen to a little bit culty and you listen to you listen to these 0.88

00:17:28.600 podcasts and these these cult shows there is no other industry or experience that you will

00:17:36.340 experience this sort of hatred fair gaming like bullying and attacking except for cults right

00:17:43.500 it feels like you have to know when someone is responding that way that they're they're still

00:17:48.180 in and the fact that you are telling the truth about what they have committed their lives to

00:17:53.140 probably is like very threatening to them

00:17:55.500 and their whole sense of self.

00:17:57.120 Absolutely, absolutely.

00:17:59.080 And I get it, I was there.

00:18:00.840 I'm sure if you go back five, six years,

00:18:03.180 you can find posts on LuLaRoe.

00:18:05.720 I mean, I'm blocked from it now,

00:18:06.640 so I would never be able to see,

00:18:07.920 but of me saying, LuLaRoe changed my life.

00:18:10.640 It's the most amazing company

00:18:12.020 and these people are just better haters.

00:18:14.100 Like I'm sure there's at least one of those somewhere,

00:18:17.420 you know, but I was in a cult

00:18:18.620 and I was brainwashed like the best of us.

00:18:20.600 um and you know you when you see it you can't unsee it

00:18:27.100 let's take a quick break

00:18:31.440 behind every night spent making the kids lunches there's a lot of suspense will they finally eat

00:18:42.480 the veggies will the pesto survive the first bite will the lunch box come home empty half full or

00:18:48.120 come home at all and will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers

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00:19:36.980 when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent

00:19:44.660 my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart

00:19:50.760 and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying

00:19:58.340 shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable

00:20:05.820 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. 0.89

00:20:10.280 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:20:17.900 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:20:21.820 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:20:25.260 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:20:28.380 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:20:37.340 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:20:43.260 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:20:55.740 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

00:20:59.440 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

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00:21:35.500 See you between the pages.

00:21:41.540 And we're back.

00:21:43.100 I've noticed on Instagram and TikTok,

00:21:46.580 since the documentary coming out, 1.00

00:21:47.940 so many other women, you know, 0.98

00:21:50.160 looking back at their pictures and being like,

00:21:52.140 i can't believe the things i used to say like it feels like it must it must be incredibly cathartic

00:21:56.980 for these women to speak up about their experiences and just get it off their chest of like all the

00:22:02.860 things they did to try to make this this spammy cult work for them absolutely so i always say

00:22:09.540 on my podcast when i talk to i have a survivor's podcast called life after mlm and i talk to

00:22:14.100 survivors from all different mlms not just lularoe there are a lot of lularoe stories on there

00:22:19.180 obviously. But, um, you know, I have the survivors podcast. I talk to people from Amway. I talk to

00:22:24.040 people from Mary Kay. I talk to people from everywhere, Herbalife everywhere. Right. And

00:22:30.560 nothing in these stories really changes except for like shocking details and the names pretty

00:22:35.600 much. It's the same exact story of like being in an MLM being like, what is going on, figuring it

00:22:43.880 out and like escaping i guess people just like being like left financially devastated when i

00:22:52.320 talk to these people on the podcast we have these conversations i don't want to call them interviews

00:22:56.240 because they're very casual um and we interrupt each other and we laugh and we make jokes and

00:23:00.920 sometimes they're you know inappropriate for the time we're talking about serious things and we

00:23:05.460 pop in with something because if you don't laugh you cry um and it's incredibly cathartic to to

00:23:12.320 talk to victims and I get so many email messages from people that are like I heard this episode

00:23:17.520 I was a Mary Kay thank you so much to Laura for speaking about it I felt so connected to her I

00:23:24.280 felt so validated by her truth she explained something that happened to me that no one has

00:23:30.700 ever said oh that happens and this random person that you talked to validated me and I'm not crazy

00:23:36.900 like there's proof that I'm not crazy I was gaslit in this company and they told me all these things

00:23:41.480 and i'm listening to you talk to these women and sometimes people and i have men on there too and

00:23:45.760 sometimes people will say something and i'll stop them and i'll say well that's a cult tactic that

00:23:50.360 you just described like it's not your fault like that's a cult tactic what you're talking about and

00:23:55.860 this is why that works and this is how it fits in the pyramid and this is why they will use it and

00:24:00.560 this is how it's all working together like a bunch of cogs in a machine and i think a lot of people

00:24:06.660 go oh my god oh my god and they it clicks right and they don't it doesn't click and so i think

00:24:15.440 what's happening right now like you said is there's all these people that watched lulu rich 0.95

00:24:20.580 they were like oh my god i was a part of this company it's a total garbage dump trashy let's

00:24:24.280 watch this movie and they're thinking popcorn time and by third episode they're in tears and

00:24:29.200 they're going oh my god i can't believe i was a part of it i didn't know it went so deep i didn't

00:24:33.400 realize, I heard about this, but I heard it was a rumor. I thought this was happening, but I never

00:24:37.240 had proof. And here's all the proof of everything you experienced, everything you were told, told

00:24:42.120 by people who were successful, told by people who did see that there was a problem and did speak out.

00:24:47.420 All of us that are in that documentary have been speaking out for a long time. I mean, not all of

00:24:51.360 us. There's a couple of newbies in there I've never seen before, but the majority of the people

00:24:55.220 in there have been speaking out and helping investigate LuLaRoe for a really long time.

00:24:59.360 And so I love that there are complete strangers that I've never met, hearing this message,

00:25:05.640 watching this film, finding the catharsis that they've never had, the validation that

00:25:10.540 they never got when they were gaslit in this cult, finally, years after, are watching this 0.99

00:25:16.340 film and going, holy shit, it's not me. 0.94

00:25:20.020 And they are, they're, I call it Lula cringe, I post it all the time, Lula cringe, and you 0.96

00:25:25.140 share your Lula cringe, right?

00:25:26.420 And you're like, look at what I'm wearing.

00:25:28.280 there's a photo of me I'm like look at me standing by this giant lollipop what the hell am I wearing

00:25:33.980 this was the worst of it you guys I left like a month later what is going on and so we think a

00:25:41.220 lot of times and then it's really funny because former survivors and victims will come in and

00:25:46.020 they'll make jokes you know and I go I know that they know because they're making an inside joke

00:25:50.140 that it's a dog whistle for us right like they say something and I go oh my god you get it girl

00:25:54.300 and we're laughing and we're having a good time and we're saying, I can't believe I did this. 1.00

00:25:58.360 I'm so stupid. And I say, Hey, you're not alone. Okay. You're not alone. There was 90,000 of us. 0.99

00:26:04.800 I mean, I don't know how many there actually was that those numbers have always been inflated and

00:26:09.080 incorrect. And I never knew the actual number ever, not even once, but you know, if we say

00:26:14.140 there were 90,000 of us, then there's, there's a lot more victims out there that probably still

00:26:18.500 think it's them and are watching lula rich and going oh my god it wasn't me so i love it i love

00:26:25.160 seeing everybody's lula cringe i love seeing everybody's stories i love jumping in the

00:26:29.320 comments and saying yes i remember this thank you um because it not only validates them it validates

00:26:35.420 me too i have so many haters that are telling me that i'm just bitter i mean dm did literally did

00:26:41.080 a live today and said not to watch you know not to bother with lula row and or not to bother with

00:26:46.620 the rich because it's just the story of four consultants who couldn't make it work oh out of

00:26:53.380 hundreds you know out of hundreds and thousands it's just four of us and i was like are you for

00:26:57.980 real now it's just the four of us it's just four of us okay they made a movie because there's just

00:27:03.360 four of us right there was like a big lawsuit because it was just four people there's a billion

00:27:09.260 dollar lawsuit because there's just four of us um it's insane i i have four separate interviews on

00:27:15.200 my podcast with four separate LuLaRoe consultants. So there's at least eight of us.

00:27:21.860 I mean, that's something that I think the documentary really does a nice job of touching

00:27:25.440 on is that when women started going to the defector Facebook groups and sharing their

00:27:30.720 stories and getting that validation that like, that's the power of hearing that you're not alone,

00:27:37.160 hearing that you're not crazy. Like after you've been legit, no shit gas lit for so long, like 0.98

00:27:43.520 going back and watching some of those motivational speaker style conferences, I was like, this is 0.98

00:27:48.180 gaslighting. Like this is like brainwashing indoctrination. The power of hearing someone

00:27:53.400 say, no, you're right. Even for little things of like, yeah, you're right. My leggings did smell

00:27:58.280 like a dead fart. You're right. They did arrive wet. Like things like things that they have been

00:28:02.760 told from, you know, the LuLaRoe higher ups that are not happening. Right. Like the power of that

00:28:09.280 validation someone saying no trust what you see with your own eyes what you feel in your gut like

00:28:14.800 you're you're you know you're right you know your experience like that's so powerful you know i even

00:28:20.460 got some validation today i don't know if it was i think it was on instagram somebody commented on

00:28:25.420 one of my posts on instagram and said i used to work at lularoe the reason that your leggings 0.78

00:28:31.580 smelled so bad is because when they were outside in those big metal crates are called gay lords 0.73

00:28:36.160 go out in these big metal gate lords out in the middle of this parking lot for months on end under 0.92

00:28:39.560 blue tarps they said well they had like a team because what would happen is rats and possums

00:28:45.060 would sleep in them and sometimes they'd get stuck and die and so they'd have to go and fish out the

00:28:51.120 dead rats and possums and then they would throw away the garment that was touching it but none

00:28:55.720 of the existing garments around it he's like so that might have been or she i don't remember it

00:29:00.260 was the username i didn't check uh but that they were like that might be why that your leggings

00:29:06.900 smelled like dead rats and i was like oh my god i've literally called them dead rat leggings 0.72

00:29:10.860 before and i was like are you fucking kidding me there was literally dead rats in them i called 0.98

00:29:18.380 that shit like three years ago i mean listen roberta you know a dead rat when you smell one 0.99

00:29:24.460 I do. I live in the country, y'all. I know a dead rat when I smell one. 1.00

00:29:35.300 More after a quick break.

00:29:54.460 Will you finish Episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

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00:30:12.020 Run a business and not thinking about podcasting?

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00:30:39.860 That's 844-844-iHeart.

00:30:42.380 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:30:47.740 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:30:54.460 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:30:58.320 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.96

00:31:03.760 shut up, don't say anything.

00:31:06.440 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. 0.98

00:31:10.940 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:31:15.480 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed,

00:31:20.140 and I just started screaming.

00:31:22.440 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:31:26.920 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:31:30.380 They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:31:34.000 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:31:42.440 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:31:48.380 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:32:00.860 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:32:07.960 I'm going to have to look up this story.

00:32:09.860 I'm obsessed.

00:32:10.600 So obsessed.

00:32:11.100 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

00:32:17.500 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

00:32:25.400 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

00:32:34.580 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:32:40.600 See you between the pages.

00:32:46.780 Let's get right back into it. 1.00

00:32:49.240 There just is not a ton of societal support for moms in America. 0.99

00:32:53.100 And if someone comes along and tells a mom that she can make good money, 0.99

00:32:56.240 making her own schedule and still be able to be a present figure in the lives of her family and kids,

00:33:00.500 it's really not surprising that so many of them would jump on that opportunity,

00:33:04.440 even if it seems too good to be true.

00:33:06.560 The vulnerability baked into the experience of being a mom 1.00

00:33:09.540 leaves women open to being preyed on by MLMs. 1.00

00:33:12.500 I have my own thoughts about why smart, ambitious, educated women got involved with, 1.00

00:33:19.560 and not just LuLaRoe, but like MLMs in general.

00:33:23.740 I think that, you know, it's very enticing to be told that you can be there for your kids 0.72

00:33:29.200 if you're a mom, make good money, you know, really be a present figure in your kids' life.

00:33:34.740 we just don't live in a place that really has a lot of options for a lot for like moms if you're

00:33:40.220 trying to work and raise your kids and so i think that my sense is is that these companies prey on

00:33:46.680 women and a lot of times moms who don't really have a lot of options and i just wonder like

00:33:51.780 what are your thoughts on why so many women get mixed up in mlms um so i think the main component

00:33:59.240 to getting lured in like robert size i love that quote in the movie roberts and robert is fantastic

00:34:04.640 If you guys don't know who Robert Fitzpatrick is, buy his book, Ponzi-nomics.

00:34:07.860 It is amazing.

00:34:09.220 If you are anti-MLM or want to be, it is the complete history of MLM.

00:34:13.600 It is one of the best books I've ever read.

00:34:16.780 It's just fascinating.

00:34:19.220 But the way that people get lured in, because that's what it is, right?

00:34:23.160 Nobody really thinks like, this is amazing.

00:34:25.260 Like, I need to do this.

00:34:26.080 It's always like, girl, you would be so good at this.

00:34:29.340 And you're just like, and it really is a lure.

00:34:33.560 it really is a lure um the number one thing is vulnerability the number one thing uh and the

00:34:41.900 more vulnerabilities you have the more likely you will get sucked in um you know people have

00:34:48.560 hardships and they think if i could just win the lotto if i could just make an extra hundred dollars

00:34:53.500 a week if i could just like get some money or like get like a really good deal or like something like

00:34:58.140 it could change everything if i could just go on a game show and win ten thousand dollars i could pay

00:35:02.120 on my bills. I'd be back in the green and it wouldn't be a problem. And so there's this whole

00:35:06.640 like, if I could just do this, if I could just be that person to just beat all the odds, right?

00:35:13.020 I'm going to beat all the odds. It's going to be me. I believe in myself. These boss babes believe

00:35:18.280 in me too. They're telling me how great I am. I know I'm great. I wasn't feeling how great I am, 0.72

00:35:23.100 but now I'm really feeling how great because these women are reinforcing what a rock star I'm going 0.98

00:35:27.600 to be. And I already believe I'm a rockstar. And now someone I don't even know sees it in me. Oh 0.75

00:35:32.760 my God, it must be true. So you're already vulnerable. And what they're promising you

00:35:38.100 ultimately, because you hear it all the time, it's not about the product. It's about the

00:35:42.840 opportunity. It's not about the shampoo. It's about the sisterhood. It's not about the weight

00:35:48.660 loss. It's about the accountability. It's not about the product. It's about the opportunity,

00:35:56.440 right it just it it doesn't matter because what they're truly selling you is a dream

00:36:06.040 they're selling you on the opportunity to possibly maybe if you're lucky enough have the ability

00:36:14.960 to possibly get to the top of the pyramid and all of your your dreams will come true so dream big

00:36:22.280 keep that dopamine rushing through your veins because as long as you're continually

00:36:26.820 like basically lying to yourself and living this fake it to your make it lifestyle where the

00:36:31.860 dopamine is just coming in you're like it feels so good i'm just going to keep doing this because

00:36:34.800 it seems to be working it's a dream it doesn't exist robert says it if you were to invite five

00:36:41.500 friends and tell them to invite five friends after 13 levels you exceed the population of earth

00:36:45.600 it's not possible 99.7% of people across the board lose an MLM so what are we actually selling here

00:36:53.540 it's a farce it's a dream it's the possibility that you might maybe one day get the ability to

00:37:02.560 kind of awesome like maybe maybe make it if you work really hard but if you don't work really

00:37:08.940 hard that's on you if you don't make it it's because you just were cut out for this

00:37:15.600 and I can't help but I know they touch on this in the film but I can't help but see the ways that

00:37:23.640 like our sort of social media landscape really feeds that like it you mentioned in the film

00:37:29.200 that they wanted you to take pictures of yourself making a big messy breakfast with your kids or

00:37:33.220 like you know they wanted people to have these very curated picture perfect Instagram feeds and

00:37:38.220 hashtag everything because LuLaRoe you know I wonder what role do you think that things like

00:37:43.700 Instagram and Facebook and Facebook live like what role do you think that played and in making

00:37:48.820 LuLaRoe sort of like what it was it was instrumental it was absolutely absolutely

00:37:54.860 instrumental before LuLaRoe I was I had been a professional blogger um and I had a decent little

00:37:59.620 following it's all defunct now but I had a decent little following and so I understood algorithms I

00:38:03.960 understood how to grow on social media authentically I knew how to brand myself um and when they heard

00:38:10.360 that I knew how to do that stuff they're like oh my god you have to teach a class like you're a

00:38:14.540 social media uh a queen like you're so amazing like you have to teach all of us how to do that

00:38:18.900 and so it was a lot of like me trying to you it's it's I don't even know if you can teach it to be

00:38:24.780 perfectly honest some of it is just like just inherent I would say you have to have pretty

00:38:28.960 pictures and then someone's like could you look at my feed and tell me what you think and I'm just

00:38:32.080 like what did you not even listen to what I said um so you know I really didn't like as I was

00:38:39.160 teaching people how to grow authentically uh and to create you know authentic curated posts about

00:38:44.880 your life nothing over the top and ridiculous but real um like a normal social media influence

00:38:51.460 overdue um it was like well you should be talking more about LuLaRoe and like oh you went to

00:38:56.200 Disneyland did you put book because of LuLaRoe I'm like well I mean is it because well you got

00:39:01.560 to go because you're not working because of LuLaRoe and you had money to buy churros because

00:39:07.440 and i was like but isn't i mean we hear in the documentary that because of lularoe isn't actually

00:39:15.060 even a hashtag at all and dn doesn't even know it she doesn't even know what it means she's never

00:39:18.720 seen it before right she's never seen it before i will tell you though there's another hashtag

00:39:22.120 they didn't mention that dn will probably also deny knowing about and that's the hashtag because

00:39:27.180 of dn i'm sure she loved that one yeah but has never seen it right anytime dn had a bad day and

00:39:34.620 like social media people were being mean to her we had to make posts of appreciation for dianne

00:39:39.140 and tag it because of dianne wow i mean that's a cult that's a cult like absolutely it's a cult

00:39:47.260 uh yeah i mean i figured out i was on a cult because i was watching leo romany's scientology

00:39:51.700 aftermath and i'm sitting there i burst into tears and my husband at the time uh we are we

00:39:56.580 are divorced but it's not because of luna roe um he was like are you okay and i was like oh my god

00:40:03.280 like I just knew I just knew I just knew god I knew something was weird but I just I just knew

00:40:10.920 I saw like the Scientology survivors and they were saying things and I had an example for

00:40:16.760 everything like a LuLaRoe example for everything they were saying I was like

00:40:21.260 that happened to me in this way and it just I was like oh my god I'm in a cult

00:40:27.300 me so smart and educated and vulnerable i joined a cult it was so easy

00:40:38.820 it was the easiest thing i've ever done joining that cult really exactly in terms of joining

00:40:44.060 not maintaining but joining right i think it's exactly what you said vulnerability precarity

00:40:50.300 like scarcity like that will drive otherwise you know like reasonable rational intelligent

00:40:57.720 people to do things that like one like you know incrementally they're like wait a minute like what

00:41:03.500 am i actually doing here like we're like how did i found myself so deep into this um and i think

00:41:07.900 you're exactly right but it's not it's luring it's luring them in you know first you think

00:41:14.100 lifestyle they continue making yeah you look at those posts on social media you look at like

00:41:18.800 actual influencers right and they they post things and i think there's this this need and

00:41:24.000 another reason why social media people this so much was you look at actual influencers and you

00:41:29.180 go they're just sharing like pictures of like pepsi like they're making all this money like i

00:41:33.420 can do that and it's coming from someone that did it it's way more than that but um you know

00:41:40.560 it's tough and people think they can buy this 99 kit in a box and become a social media influencer

00:41:46.540 or who sells shakes on social media.

00:41:48.660 And they're using, you know,

00:41:50.500 they're basically just free advertising for these MLMs

00:41:53.180 and they're selling product that nobody really wants.

00:41:57.020 And, you know, a couple of friends will help you out.

00:42:00.060 But for the most part,

00:42:00.960 the statistic for MLM sales is 90% of MLM stuff

00:42:04.220 stays within the MLM.

00:42:05.800 It's just MLM hunts shopping from MLM hunts.

00:42:08.980 Like, oh my God, I didn't get that necklace

00:42:10.360 because it was sold out.

00:42:11.020 Well, I got five.

00:42:11.680 Did you want to buy one for me?

00:42:12.620 Oh my God, well, full price.

00:42:13.620 Well, of course.

00:42:15.100 So you're buying in between.

00:42:16.540 and it's sitting in your garage 10 10 10 makes it outside the mlm 10 wow 10 that is nothing

00:42:23.780 90 stays in it's in people's garages it's in people's like closets or their jewelry boxes

00:42:32.940 they just have to have it because the true customers are the consultants true customers

00:42:39.840 are consultants in every single mlm i'll get hate for that too but that's true people go um you were

00:42:45.380 just bitter. Like you just were in the wrong MLM. I said, no, I wasn't. I've tried multiple and

00:42:50.660 they're all the same. I talked to victims and they're all the same. They're all the same.

00:42:55.340 I challenge anybody that's listening to this, that thinks they have an MLM that is not the same

00:43:00.080 to email me and let me know. And I will prove you wrong. It'll probably take me about five minutes.

00:43:05.160 So make sure it's a good one.

00:43:06.560 so I have to ask so one of my last questions for you is I know in the film that you said that your

00:43:16.020 goal ultimately when you left LuLaRoe was to get 75 people out because that's how many people you

00:43:21.700 had in your your downline yeah and you know through your podcast through your your work

00:43:27.420 building communities with people who are involved with MLMs and reducing stigma and getting folks to

00:43:32.500 talk honestly about it, you probably helped like that number times a hundred. How does that feel

00:43:40.700 for you that you once were someone who were recruiting people to be involved in this? And

00:43:45.920 now you have kind of gotten so many people out of it and reduce that stigma for so many people.

00:43:52.000 What is that like for you on a personal level? Oh man, that's a good question. You know,

00:43:58.000 it's true i i wanted to get out because i had at my height i had 75 women in only a few of them i

00:44:05.160 knew you know i talked about that too being stacked so there was a lot of people so i really i mean i

00:44:09.900 feel responsible for all 75 but i feel deeply responsible for maybe about 20 of them even more

00:44:15.280 so um and i just knew and a lot of them left before me and they were like roberta and i was

00:44:21.240 like it's weird right and they're like it's super weird and you know they also helped me get out and

00:44:26.200 I appreciate them. And I love them for that as well, because they helped me sort of see it when

00:44:31.300 I couldn't see it. And I needed that outside perspective, because if you're in an MLM and

00:44:36.560 you're only asking inside perspective, you will never get out of your MLM. You have to reach out

00:44:40.940 of the organization. You will never find truth where it is being suppressed. And so I knew that

00:44:47.300 getting out was like something I had to do. And I grappled with it. I grappled the struggle. I

00:44:54.640 cried. I, I felt like the biggest piece of shit in the whole entire world that I had trusted the 1.00

00:45:03.180 wrong people and had gotten people that I loved and trusted in it too. And I, I first turned my 0.99

00:45:10.280 shopping group into a goob mall. So goob stands for going out of business. And we called, we called

00:45:15.260 us, we called ourselves goobers, which is that in the group, it says like Roberta's goob, goob,

00:45:19.380 goobing with roberta and friends or something i forget um and i i turned it into a goob mall and

00:45:25.360 i said you guys can use my group and you can sell your stuff and we we helped a lot of people

00:45:30.120 liquidate their inventory in the beginning because i didn't really know how to help people i i wasn't

00:45:33.880 so versed on mlm and i hadn't found my voice and i didn't really have a platform yet i just knew

00:45:38.900 that i was helping people out and i helped a couple people out that way and then you know

00:45:43.000 when when the media came and they asked me to speak and and my team and defective were like

00:45:47.900 yeah roberta you you do it because you you talk to people better i was like okay i'll be the face

00:45:55.840 all right let's do this and was kind of reluctant but also at the same time i was like whatever let's

00:45:59.680 do this you know someone has to be the one to talk to media it'll be me and ever since from like that

00:46:05.060 first the first thing i ever did i started getting messages from people saying i read this and you

00:46:12.560 confirm some things and uh i joined effective and i'm leaving or you know something you said about

00:46:18.900 this remind me about my time in melaleuca and so i looked into it and it's an mlm right i said yeah

00:46:24.640 and they're like i gotta leave and so all of a sudden these people started coming to me and

00:46:28.880 it wasn't just 75 women in a row anymore it was like thousands and thousands and thousands and

00:46:34.120 thousands of people across mlm like i get emails messages my my inboxes are so full i can't even

00:46:39.340 to get through them. I mean, it's, it's, it's incredible. People want to tell their story.

00:46:45.880 People want to come on my podcast and tell their story. And, you know, I, I was given that platform

00:46:52.500 to tell my story when I did the vice documentary. And to me, it was the best therapy I could have

00:46:57.660 ever gotten because I was given a platform to tell my story and have somebody say, you're not crazy.

00:47:04.360 it happened to me too um and so in february i started my own podcast because i thought hey

00:47:11.040 that's a great way to help even more people uh and just start i told my story that was the first

00:47:16.820 episode i told my story i think it has 20 000 downloads that that first pilot it's so good

00:47:21.080 it's so good and you know i just sort of sat there on valentine's day it was my first valentine's

00:47:25.940 day single in a long time and i just sat there and told my story and uploaded it that same day

00:47:30.300 And I was like, well, I guess I just started a podcast.

00:47:33.140 And so many people were like, oh my God, thank God you finally started this podcast.

00:47:37.000 When can I be on it?

00:47:37.760 And the response has been overwhelming.

00:47:39.300 I can't even keep up with it.

00:47:40.660 I probably need like a producer or a helper of some sort, but you know, baby steps day

00:47:46.040 by day.

00:47:46.540 We'll see where it goes from here.

00:47:49.000 But to me, like everything I've done has helped more people each time I do it.

00:47:56.140 And so I love that I've helped so many people.

00:47:59.660 it makes me feel like all of this was worth it you know like the butterfly effect of me saying

00:48:06.400 maybe I should join this buttery crotch pant company um and like ruining I didn't ruin my

00:48:12.100 life I I don't want to use the term ruined my life um I don't think I'm ruined I do know that

00:48:18.020 there were people that were ruined um I could have been ruined but I wasn't and I think I've

00:48:26.980 use my strength my dad who passed away in 2013 is it is a huge influence and in like just a strong

00:48:33.480 force he's with me all the time he's probably disappointed that I even joined LuLaRoe in the

00:48:38.580 first place but he's really really proud of me that I'm fighting against them now um and you

00:48:44.660 know for me it's just he taught me to do what's right and when I see something to say something

00:48:51.320 and that's something that we're doing now you know there there are so many different social

00:48:56.020 justice issues that there are there's so many different social justice issues and so many

00:49:01.120 different movements and it is so incredible that the internet has given us a giant platform to be

00:49:07.600 able to talk to people be able to share our stories and be able to corroborate experiences

00:49:12.340 in any of these movements and i'm just so happy that i get to be a part of this movement and i 1.00

00:49:19.140 get to be a part of helping people learn that like mlms are nasty and not worth it and you know 0.96

00:49:26.220 i i love to educate that on tiktok we educate all day when i'm not banned on tiktok about why mlms 0.91

00:49:32.540 are bad uh if you have questions i will answer them um and we we break it down we break down

00:49:38.680 the stigma and we we take this really giant complicated confusing topic and we break it

00:49:46.860 down into much easier consumable things. And, um, I was talking to my friend the other night

00:49:52.780 cause he's like this, this anti-AMLM thing is so confusing. I don't understand it. And I said,

00:49:56.500 it's like math, right? You don't start with calculus on day one. So you learn the basic

00:50:01.960 principles of why MLM is bad. And then you work your way up to the government collusion. We don't

00:50:06.520 start there. There are so many people are like, why are these companies still legal? And I said,

00:50:14.300 the government protects. And they're like, what? I said, that's calculus. You're still in basic

00:50:21.160 middle school algebra. So let's start there. And, and, you know, I know this is like all chicken

00:50:26.200 walks everywhere. And I talk a lot, but that's why I have a podcast. But yeah, you know, it's,

00:50:33.060 it's, I just feel like it's a big jogger or not. And it's like just getting bigger and it's just

00:50:39.560 rolling and i've been talking with the producers because everybody's like we need a second season

00:50:44.860 and talking with them about you know what the future looks like and uh we've been on the phone

00:50:51.720 and in texts for the past couple days so i can't really say anything yet but there are definitely

00:50:55.840 things moving forward um and new projects being talked about because people are so enthusiastic

00:51:01.360 so keep commenting keep telling us that you want more episodes that you want more mlms to be

00:51:06.020 exposed that you want more dirt, uh, and more big baddies to be taken down. Um, and I will do my

00:51:12.700 best to, you know, get it to the right people's hands. Hell yeah. We need a going clear style

00:51:21.240 docu-series starring Roberta taking down MLMs. Like, like, where is the theory? Do we need it 0.99

00:51:27.300 now? I know I want that. Let's do that. That's amazing. I've got all kinds of contacts. Like

00:51:32.880 we could we could we could make that we could make that it would be amazing i love it roberta

00:51:38.920 where can folks keep up with you your podcast and your work okay so you can find me on instagram i

00:51:44.400 have two different instagrams i have the real roberta blevens where i do advocacy stuff um and

00:51:48.440 i'll share tiktok videos there when i'm when i'm banned that's where you find me when tiktok's down

00:51:52.160 and then my podcast has an instagram as well called life after mlm podcast uh and then you

00:51:58.940 can find me on tiktok at birdalikewoe or birdalikewoe 2.0 if i'm blocked uh currently they're

00:52:04.960 both blocked so when you go to follow me it will tell you that i do have community violations

00:52:08.740 and they're going to ask if you're sure and you're just going to want to say yes i am

00:52:12.320 only the best of us get those warnings uh and then you can find me on twitter which i just

00:52:17.680 started doing and that's birdalikewoe too and then facebook is robertablevins you can find me there

00:52:22.160 and i believe the podcast has a facebook page too but i'm very bad at updating this i love it

00:52:26.740 Well, Roberta, I cannot tell you how grateful I am for you sharing your story in the film.

00:52:31.860 You were probably my favorite part of the film.

00:52:33.900 And honestly, as soon as I saw it, I was like, I have to talk to her.

00:52:37.100 She is amazing.

00:52:38.340 Thank you so much for all your work helping people, you know, talk about this and all

00:52:42.580 your honesty and sharing your experiences.

00:52:44.820 And just for who you are, you really, I can listen to you talk all day.

00:52:48.040 You really have a lightness and an energy to you that I think really bring, you bring

00:52:52.220 so much of yourself to this.

00:52:53.300 So thank you.

00:52:56.740 We'll see you next time.

00:53:26.740 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:53:44.180 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:53:47.080 Guaranteed human.

There Are No Girls on the Internet - September 28, 2021

LulaRoe used social media to prey on vulnerable women

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