There Are No Girls on the Internet - Part One： Why Trump Targeted Two Black Election Workers

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00:00:19.920 I survived nine months in captivity,

00:00:23.080 and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:00:28.600 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:00:32.200 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:00:39.740 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

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00:01:21.000 So after 18 months, the probe into the insurrection on January 6th finally came to a close on Monday.

00:01:29.320 And their final recommendations are actually kind of huge.

00:01:32.500 Let's get into it.

00:01:34.000 The committee recommended that the Department of Justice investigate Trump for inciting an insurrection,

00:01:39.480 conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to make a false statement, and obstruction of an official proceeding.

00:01:45.680 The committee officials and investigators said that they decided to make criminal referrals against Trump

00:01:50.920 after seeing sufficient evidence of all of this behavior.

00:01:54.660 So, yeah, basically the stuff that we already knew,

00:01:57.480 the stuff that we basically all saw with our own eyes,

00:02:00.400 unfolding on and before January 6th.

00:02:03.420 And now I am really curious to find out what happens next.

00:02:07.340 I have been a little bit skeptical that we will ever actually see

00:02:10.340 Trump or any of his croonies face actual accountability for their actions.

00:02:14.900 But notably, I have not seen a lot of the major Republican players on the right

00:02:19.560 circling the wagons to protect Trump like I thought they might have done.

00:02:23.840 So I guess we'll see.

00:02:25.240 During the closing comments, the committee played a montage of all the different people

00:02:29.060 who were hurt or killed during January 6th, and that includes Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss.

00:02:34.580 And I am really holding space for these women in the aftermath of the commission.

00:02:39.440 Their story is a really good reminder why we should all care about what happens on the internet,

00:02:44.220 because not only does it hurt the people targeted like Ruby and Shea,

00:02:47.280 But when our online platforms amplify lies that traffic in racism and sexism, it has real consequences for all of us.

00:02:54.960 It makes us all less safe and less secure in the process.

00:02:58.160 So I sat down with my good friend Miles Gray from the podcast The Daily Zeitgeist to discuss the story of Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss,

00:03:05.400 two private citizens who were targeted by Trump and his allies, and how cruelly their own country betrayed them.

00:03:11.680 And this is just part one of a two-part conversation about what these women went through and how it hurts all of us. 0.95

00:03:21.020 Welcome to another episode of Internet Hate Machine.

00:03:23.500 I am so thrilled to be joined by one of my favorite humans, Miles Gray of the Daily Zeitgeist.

00:03:29.120 Miles, thank you for being here.

00:03:30.900 Are you for real?

00:03:32.460 I'm for real.

00:03:34.640 Oh, my God.

00:03:36.640 Thank you, Bridget.

00:03:37.580 I mean, honestly, you're one of the feeling is very mutual.

00:03:40.200 um before can i tell them off mic i was in my feelings because when i was in dc i was like

00:03:45.480 let's hang out and you didn't see the message in time but it did break my heart only because

00:03:50.980 of my deep respect and admiration for you so the feeling is so mutual as i said next time you're in

00:03:56.780 dc i'm taking you and yours out to a big dinner i mean it okay i mean i don't need a big dinner

00:04:02.520 you know whatever just show me something cool you know like is marvin still open on q street

00:04:06.660 it closed it's no longer there yeah it's gone it was it's like a dc institution gone because

00:04:12.200 of the pandemic oh no i really wow anyway this isn't a dc restaurant show but anyway uh shout

00:04:20.720 out to r.i.p long live marvin's long live marvin's i had so many good nights there

00:04:25.240 yeah but i have to ask you miles have you been following that any of the january 6th hearings

00:04:31.380 me the co-host of a daily news podcast me oh i would say i mean to be honest i follow enough

00:04:45.080 to know like what happened during every night of kuchella as i refer to as the january 6 hearings

00:04:51.800 so like i'll keep up with the big developments from there but i definitely have like there's so

00:04:58.440 I know there's so much information to go deep on that I part of me is like my cynicism where it's

00:05:03.820 like, look, I'll be interested if there's actual consequences. So wake me up when I start seeing

00:05:07.740 people getting perp walked. But to that to that end, I have been keeping up. But I would say like

00:05:12.600 I'm a I don't even know how to gauge my engagement with the news, like casual follower, although I

00:05:19.240 probably know a few things. But yeah, I've been following. It's so funny because I was going to

00:05:23.940 say the same thing. I consider myself a casual follower, but that makes it sound like you're

00:05:27.980 talking about Grey's Anatomy or something, or

00:05:29.940 like Housewives, like, oh, I dip in and dip

00:05:31.960 out. I missed the last season. It's like,

00:05:33.980 I don't know if we should be talking about...

00:05:35.820 Exactly. You're like,

00:05:38.020 I know that it went from, like, I know

00:05:40.000 I remember when it became Slone,

00:05:42.180 Grey Sloan Memorial

00:05:44.040 Hospital, like, and that was a wave

00:05:46.040 too.

00:05:48.160 And then that one person who got hit by the

00:05:50.040 bicycle, and then they were about to... Anyway,

00:05:52.100 all that to say, yeah, who

00:05:54.000 knows in this age of so much

00:05:55.880 information what is casual and what is...

00:05:57.980 like obsessed well on december 19th it's going to be the final public hearing of the january 6th

00:06:04.680 committee and the final report is actually going to be released a few days later on december 21st

00:06:08.940 so it's kind of all coming to an end and i'm kind of like you i followed it but i am not getting my

00:06:15.820 hopes up for actual consequences or accountability for any of the major players that deserve

00:06:20.480 consequences but we will see yeah because we only have history to tell us that there won't be

00:06:25.460 consequences so i'm like unless we have a market shift and how our like legal system works and who

00:06:31.320 we enforce the like actual laws with um i'm counting on like it's like i feel like the the 0.91

00:06:37.640 little pieces of a red meat that have people feeling like oh they're doing something are all 0.93

00:06:42.900 the like ancillary tertiary sort of characters to this like the like oath keeper adjacent folks who 0.99

00:06:49.380 they're like oh and then you walked in there and smashed a wall see you in two years exactly

00:06:54.520 Where's Ginny Thomas at? 0.55

00:06:56.120 Hello.

00:06:56.600 Are we talking about her at all? 1.00

00:06:57.820 God, I would love to see her get a perp walk. 1.00

00:07:00.700 Could you imagine? 1.00

00:07:02.440 She'd be like, I need to speak with the manager.

00:07:04.480 Like, she would actually say that, I feel like.

00:07:07.240 And then they would be like, oh, why don't you say that sooner? 1.00

00:07:10.660 Take the cuffs off.

00:07:12.360 Can I speak to the manager of jail, please?

00:07:14.560 Yeah.

00:07:15.520 Oh, wait.

00:07:16.380 It's my husband.

00:07:17.820 Clarence, do something, honey.

00:07:21.500 So there's been so much compelling testimony from these hearings, but in my book, I don't

00:07:25.820 think any was more compelling than the testimony from Ruby Freeman and Shea Moss.

00:07:29.700 You might remember their testimony from a couple of months ago.

00:07:32.680 Basically, when they gave their testimony, it kind of like broke my heart to hear this 1.00

00:07:37.460 personal story in their own words of how Trump and Giuliani and this whole ecosystem of assholes 0.99

00:07:44.760 basically ruined their lives and jeopardized their safety. 0.99

00:07:48.300 And I think that their story is one that is really about racism and sexism and like this general visceral distrust and disdain that a lot of folks have for black women like Ruby and Shay.

00:08:01.780 So I really think that this their story is kind of like the culmination of so many things that we have already talked about on this podcast.

00:08:08.500 You know, when racism and sexism run unchecked online and it creates the conditions for lies about black women to have a welcome home online where they will always be amplified and legitimized.

00:08:19.080 And in this case, it doesn't just impact these black women.

00:08:22.060 It threatens democracy for all of us. 0.99

00:08:24.780 So that's really what I'm excited to get into today.

00:08:27.620 Please.

00:08:28.240 I'm excited to talk about anything that helps me feel better about our democracy.

00:08:32.620 I mean, or worse.

00:08:33.620 But as long as we get to the bottom of it, I feel like there's there's comfort in knowledge.

00:08:37.320 There's a little comfort in it. So if folks don't know, Ruby Moss and her daughter, Shea Freeman, were both election workers in Folsom County, Georgia, a state that Trump legitimately lost in 2020, fair and square.

00:08:50.720 And again, for him in the back. 0.97

00:08:52.000 Yeah, I'm going to be saying that every 20 minutes like a goddamn egg timer on this episode. So get used to it. 0.99

00:08:58.480 So if you're listening, that is may or may not be a drinking game.

00:09:02.540 Yeah. Drink a sip of your beverage every time I bring that up.

00:09:06.500 You might also remember that Georgia is where Trump pressured the secretary of state to find votes for him in an attempt to rewrite history because he lost that election fair and square.

00:09:20.300 So Shea had really been like a longtime election worker in Georgia.

00:09:24.940 This was something that she was like known for in her community.

00:09:27.740 Listening to her talk about why she became an election worker, you know, she describes it as something that she did out of a way to like genuinely support her community.

00:09:36.240 She talks about how there are a lot of older folks in her community, and working as a poll worker felt like a way to give back to the elders in her town.

00:09:44.200 You can just tell when she's describing this that it's something that she feels, felt a lot of pride about.

00:09:50.140 During 2020, Fulton County was meant to have a shortage of election workers because of COVID.

00:09:54.680 And so Shay recruited her 62-year-old mother, Ruby, who was a retired 911 operator, to also serve as an election worker.

00:10:01.900 And, yeah, it just was clear that this was something that these women were really excited to be sort of doing what they saw as their civic duty to support their community.

00:10:10.920 Like, they talk about it with such reverence and pride.

00:10:14.320 In an attempt to cast doubt on the 2020 election, which Trump legitimately lost, that's number two,

00:10:22.020 Trump and his henchmen, Rudy Giuliani, repeatedly named Ruby and Shea, both Black women, as election workers who were rigging the election in favor of Biden.

00:10:31.280 Now, I don't think I need to tell you this was just an outright, baseless lie.

00:10:35.520 But this lie basically destroyed their lives.

00:10:38.280 And I want to get into a little bit of how it started and where it came from.

00:10:41.660 On December 3rd, 2020, a lawyer working for the Trump campaign obtained security video from election night from the State Farm Arena in Georgia.

00:10:49.000 It showed election workers and poll counters, including Ruby and Shay, just doing their jobs.

00:10:55.000 Like, exactly what you—I know, how dare they?

00:10:58.160 Well, I mean, yeah, we all know what they were doing in there.

00:11:00.220 They were making votes up for Joe Byron.

00:11:05.220 If you believe Rudy Giuliani, that is exactly what was going on.

00:11:09.660 Right.

00:11:10.680 This lawyer brought the video to a Georgia State Senate committee saying that it showed someone who, quote, had the name Ruby across her shirt somewhere finding a suitcase full of ballots underneath a table. 0.99

00:11:22.320 Again, I don't really think I need to tell you that this is all complete bullshit. 0.92

00:11:26.060 Yeah, the video just showed election workers who were told to pack up for the night. 0.97

00:11:30.560 So they're putting the ballots away, not in suitcases.

00:11:32.960 There's no suitcases in this video.

00:11:34.420 It's just like the normal ballot boxes.

00:11:36.460 They put these ballot boxes away.

00:11:38.080 And then later they're told, actually, go ahead and restart the vote count.

00:11:41.400 Don't wait until the morning.

00:11:42.420 And so that's what they did. 1.00

00:11:43.820 It's just a humdrum normal video of people doing their fucking jobs. 0.98

00:11:49.980 I just love to like all these conspiracy theories that come with like come from the right. 0.98

00:11:55.080 they all have this like looney tunes depiction of how like reality works like and it's in a

00:12:00.300 leather suitcase with ballots shooting out the sides this thing was packed to the gills like

00:12:05.320 really a suitcase like what does that even mean it's so how someone who was writing a bad movie

00:12:12.520 would script exactly like like election rigging like being past a suitcase under a table like

00:12:18.640 Yes, even like a briefcase is such a like weird thing to say that that was in use for election rigging.

00:12:25.740 Later, Giuliani talks about how it was involved like USB drives and like, you know, staging a phony pipe, pipe breaking in the in the vote count center.

00:12:36.220 You know, it's like it's so over the top and cartoony. 0.97

00:12:39.080 But I do think that that is what these people think actually happens in real life, that real life works like a goddamn episode of Darkwing Duck. 0.71

00:12:47.900 I mean, it would explain some of the logic that they use to try and overturn elections 0.99

00:12:52.940 where most people are like, what the fuck was that? 0.98

00:12:55.760 Just like, I don't know. 0.99

00:12:56.820 I think maybe call a bunch of goons to the Capitol and then it'll work out.

00:13:01.880 Let's just try it.

00:13:02.860 You know, you never know.

00:13:03.880 You never know.

00:13:05.000 But the video of these election workers, including Ruby and Shay, starts making its way online

00:13:09.240 through this really gross cottage industry of like right wing extremists, blogs and media sites.

00:13:16.540 And once it's in that online pipeline, it's everywhere.

00:13:19.880 It doesn't matter that this video was like immediately debunked by Georgia's secretary of state, like immediately.

00:13:26.320 Once it's out there, it's out there. 0.99

00:13:28.340 And this is where we really get like a big vector of lies about the women, which is a website called The Gateway Pundit. 0.96

00:13:35.160 Have you ever heard of this? 0.98

00:13:36.560 Oh, yeah. 1.00

00:13:37.620 Real, real place where you poison your brain with nonsense. 1.00

00:13:43.620 Absolutely. 0.97

00:13:44.100 So the Gateway Pundit is an extremist right wing media site. Research from the University of Washington's Center for an Unformed Public found that the Gateway Pundit was the second most prolific purveyor of election misinformation on Twitter in the late months of 2020. So just a real place where if you want complete fictions to be amplified to millions of people, that's your site.

00:14:05.800 Mm hmm. I mean, yeah, it's it. They're soothing bedtime stories for panicked white people who are not ready for the status quo to be upended. Sounds exactly the same day that that lawyer for Trump sends that video saying that he thinks that it includes election tampering.

00:14:20.880 The Gateway Public publishes an article, the first article that disseminates the video, and a story that was promoted under the headline, HUGE in all caps, video footage from Georgia shows suitcases filled with ballots pulled from under a table after a supervisor told GOP poll workers to leave Tabulation Center, right?

00:14:40.400 And so that's the first time that this video kind of hits the online space in a big way.

00:14:45.800 The Gateway Pundit then calls Ruby out by first and last name, writing on the site,

00:14:52.700 her name is Ruby Freeman, and she made the mistake of advertising her purse on her desk

00:14:57.400 the same night that she was involved in voter fraud on a, all caps, massive scale.

00:15:03.440 Her t-search says Lady Ruby, and her purse says LaRuby, which is her company.

00:15:08.200 This was not a very smart move.

00:15:09.940 Her company is called LaRuby's Unique Treasures.

00:15:12.060 It's on her LinkedIn page.

00:15:13.560 maybe the georgia police or bill bar's doj may want to pay ruby freeman a visit the article

00:15:19.780 concludes with an image of her with a banner that says in all caps red lettering crook gets caught

00:15:27.060 oh boy yeah that's uh that's you already know that's bad news i mean knowing too like this 0.93

00:15:34.900 online trash to like fox news or newsmax pipeline it's like it always you can always

00:15:40.960 like link every Tucker or Hannity thing.

00:15:44.760 And it's always going to start off

00:15:45.880 with some weird non-kernel of lie

00:15:48.760 that's posted online.

00:15:51.820 Exactly.

00:15:52.520 And so that's, I think that this,

00:15:54.280 exactly what you just said,

00:15:55.520 I feel like the way that this video

00:15:57.220 moved through the online right-wing blogosphere

00:16:00.480 digital ecosystem really gives us an idea

00:16:03.200 of exactly what you're talking about, right?

00:16:04.840 How this sort of digital ecosystem works.

00:16:06.820 Like it started with Gateway Pundit,

00:16:09.620 Then it goes to OAN.

00:16:12.340 Then Trump starts amplifying it on his Twitter, right?

00:16:15.520 And so, like, it starts in this, like, really kind of what should be, like, a fringe site,

00:16:19.940 even though Gateway Pundit did get White House credentials when Trump was in office.

00:16:22.660 But then it ends up with Trump amplifying the video that he got from Gateway Pundit

00:16:27.820 and then Fox News talking about it, right? 0.99

00:16:29.960 And so it really does move through this, like, shitty pipeline of extremist right-wing garbage. 0.95

00:16:35.780 hey i'm ruby carr the host of the podcast encore check out our brand new episodes featuring music 0.97

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00:17:36.200 started. That's 844-844-iHeart. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for

00:17:43.880 nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should

00:17:49.880 have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. Just remember

00:17:55.960 this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything every week i'm with

00:18:04.820 survivors who live through the unthinkable i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt

00:18:12.120 i started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming they

00:18:20.080 are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's

00:18:25.840 taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the

00:18:31.680 Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

00:18:37.740 get your podcasts. So just three days after Gateway Pundit publishes this, Ruby starts

00:18:47.900 getting harassed and people are showing up outside of her door and she's really scared.

00:18:52.060 I'm going to play a little clip of a 911 call that she made.

00:19:18.900 Okay.

00:19:19.820 Do you see a bad man on the door?

00:19:25.580 Lord Jesus, where's the police?

00:19:28.440 They are on the way, ma'am.

00:19:30.860 Oh, God.

00:19:33.800 So, I mean, she sounds terrified.

00:19:37.620 Yeah, she sounds so afraid.

00:19:39.980 It's heartbreaking.

00:19:41.280 And this is like a 60-something-year-old woman, you know,

00:19:45.780 who is making this call because people are banging on the doors of her house in the middle of the

00:19:50.120 night and she doesn't know what to do. It is terrifying. And I think what's also really

00:19:55.820 important to point out here is the ways that Trump and his croonies specifically used racism

00:20:01.560 and misogyny to fuel this lie. Like, I don't think that this lie would have worked the same way

00:20:07.080 had Ruby and her daughter not been Black women. And I think if we didn't have a digital media 0.96

00:20:11.760 a climate kind of ready and willing to validate and amplify the worst racist lies about Black

00:20:17.220 women, who we already know are disproportionately harmed by things like disinformation and harassment

00:20:21.400 and conspiracy theories, I don't think it would have worked the same way. And I think that you 1.00

00:20:25.360 saw that in a lot of the way that Trump and his allies talked about these women. I'm going to

00:20:31.540 play another clip for you from Rudy Giuliani. I apologize for making you listen to his voice.

00:20:35.820 Tape earlier in the day of Ruby Freeman and Shea Freeman Morris and one other gentleman, quite obviously, surreptitiously passing around USB ports as if they're vials of heroin or cocaine.

00:20:50.920 I mean, it's obvious to anyone who's a criminal investigator or prosecutor, they are engaged in surreptitiously illegal activity again that day.

00:20:59.460 And after a week ago, they're still walking around Georgia lying.

00:21:05.820 They should have been questioned already.

00:21:10.640 Their places of work, their homes should have been searched for evidence of ballots,

00:21:15.420 for evidence of USB ports, for evidence of voter fraud.

00:21:20.780 Oh, so they had the USB port, which you put the USB drive into?

00:21:27.100 Yes.

00:21:28.080 Isn't it interesting how earlier you were like, wow, pretty weird that their claims of voter fraud involve briefcases.

00:21:34.260 That's pretty cartoony.

00:21:35.320 And now he's saying that they're passing USB drives back and forth to each other like vials of heroin.

00:21:41.540 And then he says that their house should be searched for USB ports.

00:21:45.880 Like, which is it?

00:21:47.400 Is it like a super high tech USB enabled voter theft?

00:21:51.600 Or is it briefcases full of ballots?

00:21:53.760 I'm just saying like, I'm more getting angry as like a nerd who likes technology.

00:21:59.760 the port is the opening in which you would insert some kind of usb cable or thumb drive that's like

00:22:08.720 being like and they had uh outlets that they were passing around it's like well is it the plug or

00:22:15.020 what are you talking about the thing it goes into what you're i think what you mean is a usb drive

00:22:19.760 so aside from getting hung up on that the like you're saying this is just so common with with 0.94

00:22:26.760 these like right-wing people because we already get it like we know you're anti-black racists

00:22:32.120 that's that's that's completely clear in all of the legislation and the like the rhetoric that's

00:22:37.000 being used but to even like evoke like the drug war to put these women in the context of the drug 0.99

00:22:43.880 war because that was absolutely he's referring to a hand-to-hand crack deal or some shit you 0.98

00:22:49.500 know what i mean and he's basically saying okay black people you know they're shady because of 0.99

00:22:55.800 drugs therefore what the fuck were they doing with those usb ports you see it writes itself 0.99

00:23:01.640 and it's this like really cheap way that allows this racism to just casually continue because 0.99

00:23:07.100 it's like all right tick that box tick that box yep black people dangerous yep yep that's enough 0.93

00:23:11.160 for me exactly like his head the way that he so casually evokes the like the drug the drug war 0.98

00:23:17.760 i think it's meant to be like y'all know how black people are yes there is never there is

00:23:22.100 why would you you're already baselessly accusing these women of vote tampering why are you then

00:23:27.980 also evoking drugs these women have not like like that's it just it just goes to show how

00:23:33.580 when it comes to racism exactly like you said it's these seemingly disparate things glommed

00:23:39.500 together just to be like just by virtue of this being a black person something shady is going on 0.52

00:23:44.600 just by virtue of their presence like he could have said and then you see in the video handing 0.79

00:23:49.440 each other usb ports like it was the wire or something you know what i mean that's basically

00:23:54.940 what he's saying you know and that's just he hasn't seen the wire he's not he's not no but i'm saying

00:24:00.680 yeah of course not but i'm saying that's the shorthand that it's evoking which is essentially 0.93

00:24:05.160 to say look we're so racist we can't even imagine black people committing this kind of crime of 0.91

00:24:11.720 voter fraud so let me dumb it down to something that are like our culture has rammed down your 0.99

00:24:17.620 throats as to what black people are which are drug dealers or gang members so let me recontextualize 0.70

00:24:23.980 this voter fraud in this very neat trope that you're already used to having like no thought 0.91

00:24:29.860 cliches that you just immediately say yes to and that's how yeah and it's and it's it's sad how

00:24:36.580 quickly that momentum moves because people really they just need a reason to act out like act on

00:24:41.520 their racist beliefs. Exactly. And so obviously these women were not passing a USB drive back

00:24:48.300 and forth. What they were actually passing each other was a piece of ginger candy. So what Giuliani 0.98

00:24:53.460 was saying was just complete BS. Yeah. You might also remember that infamous phone call where Trump

00:24:58.920 called Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, asking him to find votes. In that call,

00:25:04.680 He evoked Ruby Freeman by name.

00:25:07.180 Here's what he said.

00:25:09.120 We had at least 18,000 that's on tape.

00:25:15.180 We had them counted very painstakingly.

00:25:18.620 18,000 voters having to do with Ruby Freeman. 0.88

00:25:23.160 She's a vote scammer, a professional vote scammer and hustler.

00:25:28.160 so he calls her a professional boat scammer which and hustler and i think even kind of like what 0.89

00:25:37.060 miles was saying the language that he uses to talk about her a hustler a professional scammer

00:25:42.820 like it really harkens back to this i guess a really specific and well-worn trope about black

00:25:50.080 women that i think he's really in a kind of a savvy way trying to harken back to like oh you 0.98

00:25:55.580 know how black women are all scammers and hustlers welfare queens you know exactly yeah so i also 0.97

00:26:01.940 think kind of to that end and this is like a little complicated to talk about but i think 0.99

00:26:06.400 it's definitely part of it one of the reasons i think that this lie took off like it did is because 0.96

00:26:10.780 of the visual of these two black women sites like the gateway pundit who are where that are really 1.00

00:26:17.140 good at knowing what's going to resonate with their audience what's going to stoke something

00:26:21.180 within their audience that's going to motivate them to click and share it's probably not surprising

00:26:25.480 to you that they really used a lot of images of these women. Like, every story had a picture of

00:26:32.300 them, like a close-up of them, looking sort of like they were up to no good, doing something

00:26:37.060 nefarious. And I think that those images, I think, really added like a kind of a visual element to

00:26:43.420 the story that really allowed it to take hold with racists. On election night, these women were

00:26:48.740 wearing blonde hair extensions, which contrast with their dark complexions, basically the exact 0.99

00:26:53.140 same hairstyle that I am currently wearing. Ruby owns a fashion store, like a jewelry store. And 0.99

00:27:00.940 so she has like a kind of a flashy personal style. She's wearing a bedazzled shirt and has a bedazzled 0.99

00:27:05.780 purse. I think that they posted these images so often to pretty much say, look how black these 1.00

00:27:11.740 women are. And I think Trump and Giuliani saw this video of two black women counting votes in Georgia

00:27:17.180 and they knew that they could say that these black women are the culprits and that those black women 0.99

00:27:21.600 were liars. And those black women were the reason that Trump lost the election. And I think the same 1.00

00:27:26.720 way that Trump makes a whole thing of like attacking black women, that's like was his thing 0.52

00:27:31.020 when he was in the White House. I think he's getting served on the regular by black women. 0.96

00:27:35.460 Exactly. Exactly. I think that he knew his base would be poised and primed to believe whatever

00:27:41.620 wild conjecture that he pulled out of his ass because they have a visceral disdain and distrust 1.00

00:27:47.840 for black women that he stokes. 1.00

00:27:50.060 And I think, you know, when social media platforms 1.00

00:27:51.840 are the cesspools of racist, sexist garbage, 0.99

00:27:55.120 of course, it's going to amplify those lines of thinking. 1.00

00:27:57.640 So I think that Trump knew that his base

00:27:59.000 would be really ready to believe 0.96

00:28:00.580 if they saw this visual of black women 0.99

00:28:02.800 just simply doing their jobs

00:28:04.420 and, you know, not doing anything wrong in Georgia,

00:28:06.840 that would be enough proof to convince them

00:28:09.300 that something shady was going down

00:28:11.400 in the absence of, like, actual proof-proof.

00:28:14.860 That basically his supporters would be like, 0.97

00:28:16.640 hey black women were involved in the vote counting process that should be enough to tell you that

00:28:21.380 the election was rigged against me which it wasn't because he lost exactly uh what was that he lost

00:28:26.720 the election you said the 2020 election okay he did lose he let me just check yeah it says here

00:28:31.720 that he lost okay but yeah i mean it's the same lazy racism it's like basically he's trying to

00:28:37.520 scale up the central park birdwatcher 911 call pretty much it's a black person you know because 0.88

00:28:46.060 that has been weaponized against black people for since time immemorial the mere presence 0.96

00:28:52.520 of blackness is enough for racist people to say something is afoot here just be just off the 1.00

00:28:59.160 fucking physical presence of black people you know what i mean and so to your point it's it's because 0.99

00:29:05.320 all the base probably all have a very similar like outlook on black american people which is 1.00

00:29:11.980 like oh oh huh so if that's already your baseline in thinking about a black person it doesn't take

00:29:20.020 much then to just be like and that's bad right folks and lobby well yeah yeah yeah yeah and 0.99

00:29:24.580 there's no thought that needs to go into because like to your point it's just like they're just

00:29:28.600 sort of um like drafting off of the cultural momentum of racism that already exists like

00:29:34.820 to the point where we don't really some people just don't even need facts it's the fact that

00:29:38.200 they are black women is is quite literally enough exactly and i think that they're they knew that 0.95

00:29:44.380 their base for them that would be enough they didn't need any other kind of proof just the

00:29:48.700 fact that black women were in the mix in georgia enough said and this led to really like a like an 0.99

00:29:56.700 uptick in very scary online harassment she says that she got so many threats wishing death upon 0.76

00:30:02.420 her one of them said she'd be in jail with her mother and saying things like you should be glad

00:30:07.160 it's 2020 and not 1920,

00:30:09.520 which is obviously like a pretty obvious threat

00:30:13.180 to like lyncher or a reference to lynching.

00:30:15.700 So it ain't talking about being a flapper.

00:30:18.200 Yeah.

00:30:18.740 They're not talking about like being a bootlegger

00:30:20.700 or something.

00:30:21.220 Yeah.

00:30:21.400 That's a,

00:30:21.740 that's a lynching reference.

00:30:23.380 Right.

00:30:27.380 An iHeartRadio experience.

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00:30:57.000 run a business and not thinking about podcasting think again more americans listen to podcasts

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00:31:32.400 your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society,

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00:31:44.120 obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level

00:31:48.420 of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet,

00:31:53.780 and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:31:56.800 I'm going to have to look up this story.

00:31:58.720 I'm obsessed, I'm obsessed.

00:32:00.380 From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators

00:32:03.000 to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

00:32:06.720 It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,

00:32:12.320 then that is a Trojan horse.

00:32:14.180 Whether you're looking for literary deep dives,

00:32:16.360 smart pop culture conversations,

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00:32:26.360 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:32:29.340 See you between the pages.

00:32:35.400 And so it really goes to show how, you know,

00:32:40.120 we're not talking about just mean messages on the internet.

00:32:43.240 We're talking about very scary threats

00:32:46.160 that these women went through because of these lies.

00:32:49.620 I want to play another clip of their testimony 0.94

00:32:52.000 talking about how this affected their everyday life.

00:32:55.600 Now I won't even introduce myself by my name anymore.

00:33:01.340 I get nervous when I bump into someone I know in the grocery store who says my name.

00:33:08.320 I'm worried about who's listening.

00:33:11.740 I get nervous when I have to give my name for food orders.

00:33:15.840 I'm always concerned of who's around me.

00:33:18.420 I've lost my name and I've lost my reputation. I've lost my sense of security, all because a group of people starting with number 45 and his ally, Rudy Giuliani, decided to scapegoat me and my daughter, Shea, to push their own lives about how the presidential election was stolen.

00:33:45.580 it honestly boils my blood to hear her talk about how this reputation and name that had

00:33:53.560 meant so much to her like she talked about how she used to wear her name bedazzled on her hat

00:33:58.720 on her shirts on her purses because she was so proud of her name and now she doesn't even

00:34:02.780 introduce herself by name anymore and that is what trump and giuliani took from her it's

00:34:07.460 heartbreaking you know these these women were pillars of their community and now they are

00:34:11.360 you know basically resign to a life of hiding for their own safety yeah it's it's so hard to

00:34:20.600 like you say hear that because there's so many levels of loss that are being experienced by this

00:34:27.380 woman like are you know just in the context of slavery right you've already lost your identity

00:34:36.040 in your name through chattel slavery through the middle passage like you've completely been

00:34:41.740 severed from your sense of belonging or identity just from being forcibly brought to this land

00:34:47.380 and then to go through all the other things that black people have to had to go through

00:34:52.560 since uh the end of slavery and to have someone like this who still believes that this country

00:34:59.720 is worth saying you know what this is a way that i feel like i can give back because this

00:35:04.720 is giving me something and i and i this exchange feels fair to only have that lead to something

00:35:11.080 like this where now you you're doubling back and saying i've lost my name i've lost my ability to

00:35:16.920 even have pride in myself that's like such a level of like like the dimensions of loss are so

00:35:24.880 profound that it's not just like and i can't even go on twitter anymore it's no i've actually become

00:35:32.300 afraid to identify myself because someone's lies are fueling a bunch of violent thoughts and deeds 0.98

00:35:40.160 from other people that's really fuck it's really fucking hard to hear that because she doesn't 0.98

00:35:44.860 deserve that and i really feel bad when people are so invested in how good this country is and 0.99

00:35:51.980 wanting to stick up for it and fight for it and you're getting crumbs back constantly and there's

00:35:57.620 another part of that too that feels it's really difficult for me to watch and like kind of reckon

00:36:01.440 with as i see this all happen is the same thing with like that one capital police officer that

00:36:05.980 one black officer who was fighting off this whole crowd and i'm like in a way i'm like for what man

00:36:12.360 because what are they giving i mean what how has how have things how have those how have the needs

00:36:19.000 of our community actually been heard or met but somehow the resilience to come back and keep

00:36:25.340 believing it's like it's it like makes me feel bad that i'm cynical it makes me feel like i don't

00:36:30.600 know is that the is that the best place to put my energy or not but that's just i think that's 0.95

00:36:35.380 always the darkness that exists when you look at these kinds of situations where especially black 0.80

00:36:40.640 americans are like i actually believe in the good of this country only to have your own blackness 0.99

00:36:46.500 weaponized against you to the point that you have you've you're in hiding it's just fucking this 1.00

00:36:52.640 level of doxing is it's like so inhumane and cruel like they're they're they're literally 0.75

00:37:00.460 and the amount of they didn't have to be there they didn't have to they didn't have to work in

00:37:04.680 the in the voting polls they didn't have to help people they were there to help people vote they

00:37:09.220 were there to help people vote and they've now dox them to the point that they're afraid to use

00:37:14.460 their own name that is that that is america and that is disgusting just yeah i just wish um it's 0.97

00:37:22.420 funny you know like my grandmother she loved to dress flashy the black woman you go to church you 0.95

00:37:28.960 put your nice wig on you know what i mean the wow metallic jacket and stuff that's like part

00:37:36.320 of culturally that's part of how we have a sense of pride absolutely of what little we have we have

00:37:43.260 left because we were completely excluded from the the the fruits of slave labor you know and then to

00:37:53.000 even say like i there's some i can see like you like you know some people can easily identify

00:37:58.860 with what she's talking about other people may have a harder time but that was another part that

00:38:02.440 really is hard to hear is like i used to like to wear my things like the little bits of joy that

00:38:09.180 she was able to extract from her life or taken away from her and i think that's it and how easily

00:38:15.360 and how quickly that happens should really be frightening for all people and not just people who

00:38:19.340 or are black, or are women, or people of color.

00:38:22.240 It's the idea that, like, this is kind of the game that people are playing now. 0.94

00:38:26.040 They're like, you know, we'll lie on you, and we don't care what the toll is,

00:38:29.160 because we'll just sick a mob on you.

00:38:32.220 Yeah, it's difficult to hear me, to listen to what you're saying.

00:38:36.120 She reminds me so much of my own mother and grandmother,

00:38:39.540 who also like to wear their big hats and dress flashy and be bedazzled

00:38:43.260 and have long nails, and that's part of a cultural identity

00:38:47.520 of what makes them who they are.

00:38:49.600 It's like a beautiful way that they express

00:38:51.020 who they are to the world.

00:38:52.460 And weaponizing your own identity against you,

00:38:56.460 having these things that make you feel like you,

00:38:59.340 that make you feel like you're showing up in the world

00:39:01.420 and telling the world who you are,

00:39:03.000 turning those things against you

00:39:05.360 is a different kind of cruelty

00:39:07.140 that I don't know that everybody

00:39:10.140 can really understand what that is like.

00:39:12.920 No, because you look at people who are like,

00:39:14.880 well, these other people have been canceled on the right

00:39:16.920 or whatever and like they're ashamed or whatever it's like no man kyle rittenhouse can walk into

00:39:20.480 some bar in texas and they'll cheer for him and he'll be out here with his chest out saying i'm

00:39:25.740 kyle rittenhouse you know what i mean that's he hasn't lost anything he's only gained something

00:39:32.180 because he's it's only rallied more violent people like people around him whereas this is just like

00:39:38.360 to your point weaponizing your own existence against you that is a that battle's lost basically

00:39:44.340 immediately at least psychologically for the person who is the subject of it it's really 0.98

00:39:49.380 heartbreaking yeah and like part of me's like stop fucking helping this place they don't give 0.97

00:39:57.220 a fuck look at what they do you know what i mean and but they're but i think it's really important 0.95

00:40:03.700 to not become that you can't get to that level of cynicism if you are going to continue and that's a 0.99

00:40:09.360 huge lesson i think most black people carry within them is well you i mean you can't give up

00:40:14.760 because you we could have given up we could have given up hundreds of years ago

00:40:18.280 but there has to be that sense that there is something on the other side of it to keep you

00:40:23.780 going that it's when it comes out in this kind of cruel way to like use the optimism of these women

00:40:30.860 to say you know what i think i think this could be something good and then it turned into something

00:40:34.740 just the antithesis of that just tragedy upon tragedy yeah this is one of those situations

00:40:40.320 that makes it to your point makes it really hard for me to be optimistic about the state of things

00:40:47.820 like they were just so cruelly discarded and used and no amount of money can make up for what they

00:40:55.820 went through like they should get all the money they deserve all the money they should sue everybody

00:40:59.580 no amount of money

00:41:00.860 will make up for

00:41:01.480 what they have been through.

00:41:02.880 Yeah.

00:41:03.720 Unless you have like

00:41:04.480 a gigantic neuralyzer

00:41:05.980 from Men in Black

00:41:06.720 and you can just aim it

00:41:07.700 at the whole state of Georgia

00:41:08.820 and be like,

00:41:09.340 yo, look up in the sky real quick.

00:41:10.540 Pew!

00:41:11.640 All right, girl, 1.00

00:41:12.480 put your bejeweled hat back on.

00:41:14.000 You're good, Ruby.

00:41:15.320 Like, that really would be

00:41:16.440 the only way, truly.

00:41:18.540 So we've talked about

00:41:19.520 what Ruby and Shea went through.

00:41:21.000 And next week on Part 2,

00:41:22.560 we'll be looking at

00:41:23.440 the major players

00:41:24.320 who were behind

00:41:24.800 the harassment campaign

00:41:25.680 against them.

00:41:26.700 Spoiler alert,

00:41:27.700 Kanye West and R. Kelly

00:41:28.960 are, like, tangentially involved.

00:41:31.160 And we'll also be looking at the wider impact

00:41:33.580 that the normalization of attacks on election workers

00:41:35.900 like Ruby and Shay have for all of us.

00:41:41.280 Internet Hate Machine is a production of Cool Zone Media.

00:41:44.320 For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media,

00:41:45.980 check out our website, coolzonemedia.com,

00:41:48.440 or find us on the iHeartRadio app,

00:41:50.280 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:41:54.640 This is an iHeart Podcast.

00:41:57.540 Guaranteed human.

00:41:58.960 You

There Are No Girls on the Internet - December 21, 2022

Part One： Why Trump Targeted Two Black Election Workers

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Transcript