00:00:49.980If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:00:55.400Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:01:04.060Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions.
00:05:06.660Like everyone's experience with blind items is that you read one and then you become obsessed
00:05:10.960because you kind of start to learn the language of who they're talking about.
00:05:14.200So it was a fun way to get like juicy drama, but also kind of feel like you're accomplishing something when you read them.
00:05:20.200I know that some of the criticisms about following blind items are people who are like, oh, it's essentially like celebrity fan fiction or like they are conspiracy theories.
00:05:29.100What do you think about the idea that like blind items can be harmful?
00:05:35.900The actual owner of Crazy Days and Nights has talked about this a bit before, and he said he thinks blind items are fine because once they make it to him, they're kind of local knowledge within Hollywood.
00:05:46.860And I feel like we see that a lot, right?
00:05:48.460Like with everything going on with Harvey Weinstein, the minute it came out, everyone was like, oh, it's an open secret.
00:05:53.780So if it's a blind item, there's already thousands of people in Hollywood that I feel like know this information.
00:05:59.540Of course, some of them are fan fiction.
00:06:01.540Like you have to read everything on the Internet with a grain of salt.
00:06:04.620it, I will get so many DMS of people being like, I read this blind item, and it's true. And now I
00:06:08.960need to cancel this person. And I'm like, Oh, my God, don't do that. Just like, take it as
00:06:12.680entertainment, run it through your own filter. But that being said, like, we do live in a crazy
00:06:17.640time where if I read a blind item years ago about Armie Hammer, wanting to be a cannibal and eat
00:06:24.340women, I would be like, Oh, my God, that's insane fan fiction. But like, sometimes these things
00:06:28.460turn out to be true. So we do live in a crazy world, like, you know, take it all with a grain
00:06:33.640of salt, but also some of these things happen. I'm a big believer in the power of things like
00:06:39.460whisper networks or, you know, that like these things, when we dismiss them as always incorrect,
00:06:46.100I feel that it really discounts the times where like, well, no, this was actually accurate. And
00:06:52.960like, yeah, maybe it did seem far-fetched when you heard it, but now it's common knowledge.
00:06:58.340Yeah, exactly. And I think it's good to flex that muscle at least of like just researching
00:07:02.760something right like if a bunch of websites have been saying one thing about a celebrity for years
00:07:07.420you know where there's smoke there's fire so it's at least worth looking into it's not worth spamming
00:07:12.800their dms and saying that they're a monster but like you know just do your research and see what's
00:07:17.420going to come true yeah i mean and another so one of the reasons i wanted to talk to you today was
00:07:22.260your really deep uh deep dive into blind items around sex in the city and then your sort of
00:07:28.340reaction to it um what were your initial thoughts about the uh and just like that reboot of sex in
00:07:34.040the city oh my god so i mean sex in the city is one of my favorite shows and i feel like it is
00:07:39.780for so many people like it just hit on you know it was a cultural phenomenon for a reason like
00:07:45.680it's funny it's witty it's quick it has four relationships with girls which by the way i think
00:07:50.740if you're going to make any successful tv show having four women as the main leads like you see
00:07:55.660that in Pretty Little Liars. You see that, I mean, they're men, but you see that in New Girl. You see0.52
00:08:00.560that in Big Little Lies. I feel like it's a great setup, but it just meant so much to people. And
00:08:07.740also since the show ended, you've kind of seen what all of these actresses did, right? Like,
00:08:12.920so Cynthia Nixon went the political route. Sarah Jessica Parker went the fashion route.1.00
00:08:17.280Kim Cattrall kind of removed herself from the scene. Nobody knew what was happening with0.69
00:08:20.680Kristen Davis. So I do think everyone says there was no need for the show to come back,
00:08:25.300But I think people were curious about like, you know, what happens afterwards and especially the feud with Kim Cattrall and Sarah Jessica Parker.
00:08:32.980I think that made everybody really curious to see kind of who was, quote unquote, like right in that feud.
00:08:39.320In case you don't know, even though Sam Jones and Carrie Bradshaw were BFFs on the show, Kim Cattrall and Sarah Jessica Parker, the actors who portrayed them on Sex and the City, had a lot of bad blood behind the scenes.
00:08:52.800There's accusations of exploitation and bullying and people being iced out.
00:08:56.780And when Kim Cattrall's brother tragically passed away, Sarah Jessica Parker sent her flowers.
00:09:02.980And Kim responded on Instagram, saying to Sarah Jessica Parker,
00:09:07.020you are not my friend, you are not my family, and I don't need your love and support at this tragic time.
00:12:37.800when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent
00:12:45.660my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart
00:12:51.700and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying
00:12:59.340shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable
00:13:06.820I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.0.89
00:13:11.280I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.
00:13:18.900They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:13:22.800But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.
00:13:26.260They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:13:29.380Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:13:38.320If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.
00:13:44.260This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:13:56.740I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:14:03.840I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
00:14:07.280From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.
00:14:13.380It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:14:20.900Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:14:30.460Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:15:09.720And, you know, when I watched the first two episodes, I couldn't quite put my finger on
00:15:14.640And some of the things, like, Miranda was the most clear in her ideology as a feminist, as an independent woman, as what that meant to be an independent woman in your 40s doing things on your own.
00:15:26.940Watching this version of her now, who is this fumbling boomer, who is, like, fumbling everything, I did not recognize this woman.
00:15:34.960And it wasn't until I watched your TikTok where I was like, oh, yeah, they also really reinvent Miranda's relationship with technology.
00:15:43.060And, you know, can you give us some examples of Miranda's relationship to technology in the original series?
00:15:51.120Yeah. So, I mean, Miranda was one of those characters in the original series who, like, nobody wanted to say they were a Miranda, but you so closely identified with her.
00:15:59.620And she was just obsessed with technology.
00:16:02.020Like, she had so many funny storylines about being obsessed with TiVo, wanting to go home to what her TV was recording.
00:16:11.040She always had her BlackBerry with her. When her and Steve went to their honeymoon in the cabin,
00:16:15.480she was like, it's too quiet. I need my gadgets. I need my internet, things like that.
00:16:20.300She was the one who helped Carrie get online. She was the one that I think in one of the movies
00:16:25.280when they're traveling, she wants to make sure that the place has Wi-Fi because she has to be
00:16:29.220checking her email. She was even getting LASIK procedures. She was on top of everything.
00:16:34.940And then now in this new series, she's like, I can't get into podcasts. I would never touch a
00:16:39.780Kindle. I like the way that the pages turn on a book. And I'm like, I've never even seen you read
00:16:45.740a book for any episode of the series. You're watching TiVo and you're on your Blackberry.
00:16:50.380So it just felt like it wasn't like they were taking a personality trait of hers and then
00:16:55.360making it larger. They just completely switched. It was like a black and white change. And it just
00:17:00.380felt like a disservice to the character. I completely agree. And your TikTok really
00:17:05.160helped crystallize that for me and I also think first of all Miranda would fuck with podcasts0.97
00:17:10.060she would be listening to NPR she would have a a tote bag for NPR she would be she is someone who1.00
00:17:17.040would really like podcasts and you know you go back to talking about some of the ways that Miranda had
00:17:22.440this this relationship with technology in the original show keep in mind that we're going back
00:17:26.960to like the late 90s right so like I remember the first time I had ever heard of TiVo was because
00:17:32.320Miranda wanted to watch her like British soap operas on T-Bone. I'd never heard of T-Bone
00:17:37.620before, right? And like now it's ubiquitous, but it wasn't ubiquitous in like 1999. So she definitely
00:17:44.180was on the cutting edge. Another scene I remember is how she reacts when they move to Brooklyn and
00:17:50.960Steve is like, oh, I finally hooked up the DSL. And she, you know, I mean, that's going back a
00:17:55.800while, you know, back from how we used to get online, but like she explodes in joy. She's so
00:18:01.320happy to have it. And yeah, I, why do you think that they have decided to make her go in this
00:18:08.940complete different direction in terms of her relationship with technology? Yeah, well, it was0.64
00:18:13.360interesting the comments on that TikTok I made. One person said that, and I made another video
00:18:18.600about this, where I feel like Samantha was kind of the punching bag in the original series where
00:18:22.960like, you know, in the, when they go to Abu Dhabi, she's like, you know, oh my God, I need my hormone
00:18:28.840pills and I'm just like a raging mess of a woman and like if there was anything embarrassing that
00:18:33.140had to happen they typically gave that scene to Samantha or Miranda and now with Samantha gone I
00:18:38.880feel like they need one of the characters to be like the bumbling mess where like funny things
00:18:43.000happen to them and they're just so not with it and that role kind of fell to Miranda either that or
00:18:48.860like they want some sort of boomer Karen character so they just force Miranda to be it and a lot of
00:18:54.560people were saying it seems like charlotte would actually be more suited for that role and i don't
00:18:59.200know i really don't know yeah i that's kind of what i think i believe that her in this new version0.97
00:19:06.820of the show miranda's like technophobia and her missteps when it comes to things like race relations
00:19:12.340are kind of linked i feel like they're kind of making this point that you know when a when a
00:19:17.500middle-aged person is trying to be like woke or politically correct that they're i think they're
00:19:21.440trying to demonstrate it as a kind of regression for a middle-aged woman. And I think that like
00:19:25.800her regression away from technology is sort of linked to that. I feel like they're trying to
00:19:31.200make a point about, you know, Miranda is really going backward and her inability to talk to like0.97
00:19:39.280a Black college professor is linked to her inability to like read a Kindle or understand1.00
00:19:44.740podcasts. Like we're watching her like regress. Yes. And it seems like Miranda is aware because1.00
00:19:50.800she's always been so like academia focused and things like that so it seems like she's aware of
00:19:55.280issues but she's just handling them wrong you know like she knows what a microaggression is but she's
00:19:59.800committing them all over the place and she knows that you need to be able to have an open relationship0.95
00:20:04.220with your child about sex but instead she's just letting her son have sex in the house and not0.56
00:20:08.520really talking to him about it so it's weird because it's like she's almost like she's missing
00:20:13.540the mark on everything but she knows that she's missing the mark so it's just it's painful to
00:20:18.520watch I'm like fast forwarding her scenes because Miranda used to be the character where like no
00:20:22.920matter what scene she's in no she's gonna handle herself well and now every time she comes on
00:20:27.300screen I'm like oh god like what's gonna happen that's so true she was like the most relatable
00:20:32.140of the bunch yeah I felt like in a lot of ways she was kind of the stand-in for the audience of
00:20:36.780like she's gonna she's gonna handle herself she's not gonna get swept off into like Pollyanna land
00:20:41.840like Charlotte or you know you know make all the wrong choices like Carrie might like she like I
00:20:48.100I felt like she like the audience knew that she reliably knew how to handle herself and watching her go the opposite direction in in the reboot.
00:20:56.780It's just like, yeah, sometimes it's hard to watch.
00:20:59.260Yes. Yeah. And it's funny because I think the rest of the characters are just coming off like so much better.
00:21:05.540You know, like I'm actually, I don't know, kind of jiving with Carrie this season when typically like Carrie was not my favorite person to watch on screen.
00:24:31.000Another thing I really appreciated about your TikTok is the way that you talk about how the sort of institution of sex in the city on its own was this kind of great thing because you got to see these like 30, 40, 50 something women dealing with sex and dating and work.
00:24:47.300And that's not something we really see a lot.
00:24:48.880We kind of have this assumption that once you're out of your 20s, women just like stop being sexual, stop having conversations about sex, stop thinking about sex.
00:24:56.280And we know that's not true. And the show really kind of reset that standard in a way that was really refreshing.
00:25:02.180And I guess that's one of the reasons why I'm so disappointed in the way that they have framed Miranda's relationship to technology, because I see them kind of linked, right?
00:25:09.900That we have a blanket misconception that folks in their 40s, 50s, 60s have no relationship to technology.
00:25:16.040It's just like not something in their life. And that's just not true. And I guess I wish that we could see, you know, the same way that we saw Miranda as this like cutting edge person involved in technology. I wish we could continue to develop what these women and their relationship to technology looks like into their 60s. I think that like that's not something we see on screen a lot. And we have just kind of had this blanket assumption that it's, you know, they're not involved in technology. But we know that's not true because everybody is.
00:25:42.320Yeah. And I think that they're in this new reboot. It's just like, it's so odd. I feel like they're trying to touch on like a bingo card of like trending topics and like address it without doing a good job on it. And they're even looking at certain things like the idea that someone in their 50s, you know, is going to like Steve doesn't have any hearing whatsoever. And like Miranda doesn't know what a podcast is. I'm like, my parents are in their 60s and they're obsessed with podcasts. Like you're making it sound like it's something.
00:26:10.480And I just feel like you're putting boomers in like a negative light where it's like they're not these bumbling creatures.1.00
00:26:17.720I don't think they know how to tick tock.
00:26:19.200But like these are still, you know, these are still smart people.
00:26:22.780And then they're also talking about aging, too, where they're talking about like, oh, my God, can you believe that we're aging in our hair and things like that?
00:26:29.900It's like you don't need to talk about it in every scene.
00:26:34.040I feel like they're touching on these topics, but they're talking about them in such a negative light.
00:26:39.120And it's like, this could have been a chance for you to not lean into the stereotypes, you know?
00:26:44.580Yeah, I think it really, like, turns, it could have been a chance to really give an authentic, nuanced depiction of what it's like to be an aging person in 2021.
00:26:55.780And instead, they chose to lean into caricatures of what that might be like, like a real, like, stereotype-driven caricature of somebody aging in 2021.
00:27:06.120one. And even in the original series, they talked about things like aging and technology, but they
00:27:10.300did it so much better then where Samantha would be like, yeah, I get Botox or, you know, I like
00:27:14.880to do things like this or yes, you know, I am 40 and I am still fabulous and I wear glasses,
00:27:21.080but it's okay. And without Samantha there, you just have like the negative Nancy's bringing
00:27:25.480each other down. There's no, I don't know who in the show is now the empowered woman that I want1.00
00:27:31.280to be like, because I look at all three of those ladies and I'm like, I don't think I'd want any
00:27:34.880of their lives Samantha was the person who like she's fabulous she's living her life on her own
00:27:40.060terms and loving it and yeah looking at it now I don't know who we're supposed to look at and say
00:27:44.400they're living their life on their own terms and loving it yes yeah and I you know I'm sure that
00:27:50.140there's some sort of formula for shows where you have to have all the characters start in a bad
00:27:54.180place so that way there's like things to overcome and like that's what moves the plot along um
00:27:58.860but I don't know like do all of them have to be down so bad like couldn't one of them be like a
00:28:04.520role model and they take turns being cringe i don't know yeah that's another thing the show
00:28:09.180was just was the first two episodes maybe it'll change both just real bummers like yeah and what
00:28:14.880were your thoughts on um the peloton thing i was like they must have some serious um resentment
00:28:21.360with someone on there because the entire advertisement i was like i'm never working
00:28:25.600out again in my life it was just such a negative endorsement it was so this has been a big topic
00:28:30.860a conversation in our household because i'm obsessed with indoor cycling even though i don't
00:28:34.520have a peloton because i can't afford it um but uh it really like the scene where miranda and steve
00:28:40.520are talking in the closet and he's like it was that bike he should have never been on that bike
00:28:44.520he was a fool to be on that bike like the way that they like really make it seem like the peloton
00:28:50.820was the cause of his death and the real world impacts of that like peloton shares dropped0.99
00:28:56.000quickly they put out that ad with big being like oh i'm still alive um i also feel like it really
00:29:02.180almost borders on like a little bit of like irresponsible information that like cardio
00:29:07.020causes can cause your death if you work out too hard you're gonna die i was like what and i think
00:29:14.500like good for peloton for putting out that ad where it's like or that statement where it's like
00:29:19.920well big drank a lot he ate steaks he's he's smoking a cigar earlier in that in a scene in
00:29:26.620that same episode so like let's not pretend it was the the the occasional cardio that might have
00:29:32.320did him in yeah and just for them to iron it was like another thing too where why did it have to
00:29:37.120be peloton and there were so many aspects in the show they're talking about peloton they're talking
00:29:42.940about um what was it uh COVID like different references to that I feel like a show is good
00:29:49.700if it can be timeless right like you could hop into any Friends episode or any Old Sex in the
00:29:54.080City episode and it is what it is but this show just seems like it was made for the year 2022
00:29:59.380and it was just made as a quick cash grab and I'm sure Kim Cattrall is sitting back having a glass
00:30:04.340of wine going thank God I chose not to be in this yes I mean it's like universally being panned and
00:30:21.540Like, Alanis Morissette, grunge, plaid, you know, like, that's what I feel like I'm watching.
00:30:26.220Like, just a mishmash of, like, things we remember from 2021, COVID, mass, Peloton,
00:30:33.560you know, wokeness, you know, all of these different things.
00:30:37.960Yeah. So my last question for you is, as a podcaster, what do you what do you think about Carrie as a podcast host? How does this how does it fit with you?0.81
00:30:48.000here's the thing I think when I look back on the show and I'm sure you know how much of it is Carrie
00:30:53.760versus how much of it is the writers of the show but Carrie is really fucking funny in the show
00:30:58.620and like so is Samantha the lines in there are so good I remember like one of the scenes where0.73
00:31:03.480where Samantha's talking about uh how she's dating a guy with the funkiest tasting spunk and then
00:31:08.980they're like why do they think girls are gonna like it and then they're like well maybe if
00:31:11.860you know maybe if men came beer or whatever like they would drink it and stuff like that and it's
00:31:16.580like, those are really funny conversations. And also, they did talk about sex back then. So I
00:31:21.660don't know why they're making out Carrie. It's probably with the age boomer thing. They're
00:31:25.740making her out to be such a prude. And it's like, you had a sex column. I just thought it was so0.99
00:31:31.600weird. And then that her asking big if he masturbates, how could you not ask that to0.96
00:31:35.260someone that you've been married to and having sex with for like 30 years now? It's, it's ridiculous1.00
00:31:40.120to me. So I think Carrie could be a great podcaster. But maybe they're just kind of0.98
00:31:44.780talking about this generational idea where like, you know, even my parents will listen to my
00:31:48.820podcast and say, Shannon, you're dropping too many F-bombs. But people in our generation are happy
00:31:53.780to talk about like their hemorrhoids or their hookups on the internet. So I think that Carrie
00:31:58.440could get into it because she is funny. It's just a shame that she's like self-censoring herself.0.99
00:32:04.080This is someone who in the 90s wrote a column about how a politician wanted her to pee on him,1.00
00:32:11.140right like the politician yes yeah or um like having anal sex or threesomes or i mean i feel0.99
00:32:20.380like there wasn't a single topic because i've re-watched sex in the city now and i've gone0.99
00:32:24.760okay if they were still making the show what new sexual like taboo or fetish is out there that
00:32:30.360people are engaging to that they haven't talked about and i'm like they actually cover everything
00:32:34.960like there's no new thing they're talking about vibrators group sex it's like they did such a
00:32:40.620good job of covering everything openly on the show and once again I'm like maybe that's why
00:32:45.240Samantha is missing because the show is sex in the city and like nothing sexy has happened in
00:32:49.820the past two episodes that episode of big pleasuring himself I was like oh my god I would
00:32:55.440rather watch a scene with Miranda and her professor again even though that was just as bad it was just0.96
00:32:59.620like it was horrible it was horrible it was bad I but here's the thing I'm gonna fucking keep0.58
00:33:06.000watching like it's so bad episode it's on tonight i think and you better believe i'm like gonna be0.83
00:33:12.940on the couch also i think they did do a good job of setting up carrie to be single so now we can
00:33:19.300see what it's like you know dating in your 50s or whatever so i'm glad that that's gonna happen
00:33:24.820i just think like my god did they bungle the first two episodes well here's i'll be watching