There Are No Girls on the Internet - The Capitol insurrection was fueled by the anti-abortion movement

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00:01:19.460 I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive

00:01:26.780 what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:01:32.380 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled,

00:01:38.200 and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

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00:01:55.520 There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.

00:02:03.620 I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.

00:02:08.820 Today marks the one-year anniversary of the insurrection at the Capitol.

00:02:12.600 I live in Washington, D.C., and I don't think I'll ever forget going from watching historic returns in the Georgia Senate runoff election and watching votes be certified for President Joe Biden on television to watching violent insurrectionists storm the Capitol in real time from my apartment, which is only about a mile away.

00:02:31.260 Now, January 6th at the Capitol was not the first time that extremists have resorted to violence to try to get what they want.

00:02:38.060 In fact, many of the tactics and major players that led to the deadly insurrection at the Capitol were the very same that abortion providers and advocates have been warning about for decades.

00:02:49.760 A few days after the insurrection last year, I joined my friends Samantha and Annie at the podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You to break down the huge overlap between the anti-abortion movement and the insurrection at the Capitol and what it means for all of us.

00:03:08.060 Hey, this is Annie.

00:03:10.180 And Samantha.

00:03:11.100 And welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio.

00:03:22.460 Today, we are once again joined by our good friend and colleague, Bridget Todd.

00:03:27.540 Hello, Bridget.

00:03:28.500 Hello.

00:03:29.220 I'm so excited to be here again.

00:03:30.560 Yay.

00:03:30.980 Yes.

00:03:31.460 Always a pleasure to have you.

00:03:32.820 And wow, I think we recorded in early December 2020 was the last time we met up in this virtual podcasting space.

00:03:43.320 And a lot has happened since then.

00:03:45.660 A lot has happened. Doesn't that feel like it was years ago?

00:03:48.500 It really does.

00:03:50.320 It feels so foreign. I feel like I have slept many nights.

00:03:55.260 There's been many a moon set of things that have happened.

00:03:57.720 I feel like I've already aged 10 years.

00:03:59.480 Yeah, so there's a lot, like, I feel like it was a lot.

00:04:04.800 Yes.

00:04:05.480 And so we wanted to ask you, because the topic you're bringing us today is related both to past topics you've talked about, but also to what happened in the Capitol, the violence at the Capitol.

00:04:17.340 And since you're in Washington, D.C., we wanted to ask you about it.

00:04:21.520 What was that like?

00:04:23.060 Thank you for asking.

00:04:24.000 It was very odd, as you might imagine.

00:04:26.320 And so when I woke up on January 6th, before I went to bed, I had been watching the numbers come in from the Georgia Senate runoffs, and I was feeling very good.

00:04:35.080 I put on my lucky shirt that has a Shirley Chisholm quote on it.

00:04:39.020 And so, like, you know, I woke up beaming.

00:04:42.620 I remember waking up like, good morning.

00:04:44.400 I was so excited.

00:04:45.560 And I think it was because I had not felt that kind of hope in a long time.

00:04:50.340 So I was, like, feeling very, very hopeful that morning.

00:04:52.600 And it was like a power and a hope that I had not felt in, I guess, the last four years.

00:04:58.340 And how quickly that feeling of hopefulness turned into just powerlessness as I watched, you know, this insurrection happen.

00:05:09.960 And I think that, like, I was watching it happen on television kind of in real time.

00:05:14.280 And so it really got so dark and so serious so quickly.

00:05:18.940 it went from, of course, there's just going to be these Trump supporters, you know, standing

00:05:23.520 outside the Capitol protesting, sure, to like, oh my God, this is bad. You know, we got, you know,

00:05:29.340 those things that you get on your phone when there's an Amber alert, those like things on

00:05:33.100 your phone. We, everybody who was in my household got one of those at the same time from the mayor

00:05:37.980 of DC saying that there was a state of emergency order and there was a curfew. We couldn't go out.

00:05:41.860 It happened very quickly. And yeah, when I watched it, I'm always making this point, but

00:05:46.580 D.C. is my home. I was raised here. This is my community. I've lived here. This is like what I

00:05:50.760 consider home. And I think that because it's where so much of our federal government stuff happens

00:05:56.980 and where the, you know, the Capitol is, people forget that just regular folks live here. Like,

00:06:03.100 this is where people live. And so I was really heartbroken by thinking about this as not just

00:06:08.700 an attack on our democracy and on our Capitol, but also on my community. You know, D.C. is largely

00:06:13.960 black and brown. And so when these people were storming the Capitol, I saw videos where after

00:06:19.300 they were storming the Capitol, where did they go? Oh, to our restaurants, to our hotels,

00:06:24.380 to our institutions. And just the idea that these people would be kind of unleashed on my community

00:06:31.200 really hurt. And so, you know, I always just got to like make sure that that point gets included,

00:06:36.000 that it's not just lawmakers who live in D.C. It's real people, some of which have no connection

00:06:41.140 to the government.

00:06:41.760 And so it was not just an attack

00:06:43.620 on our democracy and our capital.

00:06:45.160 It was also an attack on these people,

00:06:46.900 our home, you know?

00:06:48.200 Yeah, I remember because we were all watching closely

00:06:50.420 and knowing that you were one of my connections in D.C.,

00:06:53.500 definitely like following you on Twitter,

00:06:55.820 you actually mentioned like,

00:06:57.120 hey, thanks a lot for bringing in the corona,

00:06:59.040 like not wearing a mask and infecting our city.

00:07:02.020 And we were trying to control it.

00:07:03.160 And you just made this a bigger disaster

00:07:04.840 because they were not only in your community,

00:07:07.020 at your restaurants, at your hotels,

00:07:08.780 at your like places of service,

00:07:10.120 as if this was a free-for-all,

00:07:11.740 as if nothing were happening.

00:07:13.240 And of course, no one was arrested.

00:07:14.580 So therefore, they were just out and about

00:07:15.800 doing their thing.

00:07:16.900 I just saw a report saying

00:07:18.040 like 30-something Capitol Police officers

00:07:19.960 tested positive for corona just recently.

00:07:22.720 But yeah, I saw you tweeting that.

00:07:24.200 I was like, oh my God, she's so right.

00:07:25.820 I didn't even think about that part

00:07:26.840 because I'm just looking at the violence. 0.98

00:07:28.140 But holy crap, it's a pandemic, y'all. 0.99

00:07:29.960 It's a pandemic. 0.99

00:07:30.680 And it's like, we just don't need this.

00:07:34.340 Anecdotally, I think that residents of DC

00:07:36.180 have been pretty compliant

00:07:37.720 when it comes to socially distancing

00:07:38.920 and masking and all that kind of stuff.

00:07:41.100 But just, we have enough stuff going on as a city,

00:07:44.600 you know, on top of the pandemic and everything else.

00:07:46.960 This is just like one more big thing that we don't need.

00:07:49.960 And I think it's also really hard,

00:07:51.560 the fact that D.C. is not really a state.

00:07:53.600 I think that people just forget,

00:07:55.180 like people don't understand

00:07:56.200 that we don't have the same kind of protections

00:07:59.000 or support that states have because we're not a state.

00:08:01.260 And so, you know, when the mayor

00:08:03.220 was trying to get the National Guard to come in,

00:08:05.520 that was delayed because she's a mayor. 1.00

00:08:07.900 She doesn't have that authority. 1.00

00:08:08.920 so she had to get special permission.

00:08:10.680 You know, I think it really illustrated to me

00:08:12.740 how important it is that D.C. becomes a state at some point

00:08:15.460 because it just doesn't work.

00:08:17.580 And yeah, every other place right now

00:08:19.300 is being ravaged by the pandemic, as is D.C.

00:08:21.560 And yeah, this doesn't help.

00:08:23.980 We didn't need this.

00:08:25.040 We're already having a tough time.

00:08:26.660 Right. 1.00

00:08:27.580 The realities of when people decided to do stupid things. 0.99

00:08:32.340 Exactly. 0.99

00:08:33.040 Just saying.

00:08:35.020 Yeah, and so glad you're okay.

00:08:37.660 Yeah.

00:08:38.020 And in the wake of all this, there's, of course, been a lot of looking into what happened and what led up to it and the people that were there.

00:08:46.440 And I just remember so clearly, you've come on here and spoken a lot about disinformation and misinformation.

00:08:52.540 And you said, like, people forget that these online things have real world consequences.

00:08:58.880 And this was like one of the most, I couldn't think of a better example.

00:09:05.600 And we were also been talking about women and QAnon

00:09:09.720 and this very specific kind of like fear around children.

00:09:13.600 And one of the things you wanted to talk about today

00:09:15.900 is the anti-abortion movement

00:09:18.380 and how that was a part of this whole thing

00:09:21.800 of what happened at the Capitol, right?

00:09:24.580 Absolutely.

00:09:25.360 I'm grateful that folks like yourself

00:09:27.480 are continuing to pull apart

00:09:29.540 all the different aspects of how we got here,

00:09:32.680 whether it's QAnon, targeting women who are concerned about children.

00:09:36.940 And so I think that the connection between the violence that we saw at the Capitol and

00:09:40.200 the anti-abortion movement is just one more of those kind of nuggets that I think we should

00:09:44.720 not ignore because there are so many different aspects that got us to January 6th at the Capitol.

00:09:51.440 And I think that we should be talking about all of them.

00:09:54.000 And I think some of them are easier to go sort of overlooked or erased.

00:09:57.080 And I think the connections to the anti-abortion movement is one of them.

00:10:00.100 And so I really have to start by shouting out a couple people.

00:10:03.200 There is a great piece by Lauren Rankin in Refinery29 called How Anti-Abortion Terrorism

00:10:08.600 Fueled the MAGA Attack on the Capitol.

00:10:10.360 Really great piece.

00:10:11.300 Cannot recommend it enough.

00:10:12.500 And then another investigation by Carter Sherman at Vice called Anti-Abortion Activists

00:10:17.080 Were All Over the Capitol Riot.

00:10:18.560 So a lot of the information that I have found have come from those two pieces.

00:10:22.400 And I also just have to shout out my friend Renee Bracey Sherman of the organization We

00:10:25.880 Testify.

00:10:26.820 We testify as an organization that tries to increase representation for people without abortions.

00:10:31.520 And so they were doing a lot of that work of saying, oh, hey, some of the people who were at the Capitol, they are very known to, you know, abortion providers and abortion activists.

00:10:40.820 And so I really just have to shout out the people who are doing the work to make sure that that conversation sort of we get to have it and that we don't let stigma or whatever keep us from having this conversation that can really help us understand how we got to the insurrection on the 6th.

00:10:56.400 And then, yeah, also just the fact that last week was the 48th anniversary of Roe versus Wade, you know, the landmark Supreme Court decision legalizing abortion in the U.S.

00:11:04.800 And so on that day, I really was sitting with the fact that the same kind of tactics that abortion advocates have been warning about and screaming about and, you know, pointing to for the longest time, those are the same tactics that got us to January 6th with these people all storming the Capitol.

00:11:22.300 I think that they're very, very similar and they have a lot of overlap.

00:11:24.720 Can you break down the disinformation that led up to this one, but also some of that overlap?

00:11:30.820 Because this isn't like a new occurrence of violence within anti-abortion movements.

00:11:37.620 Absolutely. It is not a new occurrence.

00:11:39.400 So just like the insurrection was kind of fueled by what they're now calling the big lie that Trump won the election and that it was being stolen from him,

00:11:47.260 The anti-abortion movement has similarly trafficked in just straight lies about abortion, about people who have them, about abortion providers.

00:11:56.740 And I think it really illustrates what happens when those lies go more or less unchallenged.

00:12:02.360 And so, you know, when putting together my information for this episode, I was like, oh, yeah, some abortion disinformation and misinformation and inaccuracies are so common that you don't even really think about it anymore.

00:12:12.900 And actually just last week, the University of California, Berkeley School of Public Health put out a study that found that four of the five most presented webpages in response to a search for abortion pill on Google were less than 50 percent accurate.

00:12:26.360 Right. And so just the idea that on our biggest search engine, when you Google for information about abortion, it is likely that information is a lie, is not true and is misleading.

00:12:36.940 Right. And so I think that a big thing to point out here is what happens when fabrications are just tolerated.

00:12:44.180 That's just like the state of play when it comes to misinformation.

00:12:46.600 And I think also when you look at, you know, the lead up to the 2020 election, we saw so much inaccurate information being flooded on social media about Biden and Harris and their positions on abortion.

00:12:58.600 And the thing that's like really sad, but also shows how savvy these disinformers can be is that disinformers know that there is a lack of good news and media sources that are in Spanish. 0.55

00:13:10.580 And so they then fill that gap with inaccurate information that is in Spanish. 0.52

00:13:15.420 And so you saw the Latinx community being really targeted and inundated by inaccurate, distorted information about abortion meant to impact the outcome of the 2020 election.

00:13:27.280 And so another point is that these often are happening in WhatsApp groups that are private.

00:13:32.380 So unlike Facebook, where you can kind of get a sense of what's happening, or Twitter, where it's happening mostly in public, it's a closed platform to have your private WhatsApp group with your aunts and uncles and cousins, right?

00:13:43.360 And so we saw lots of really horrific anti-abortion messaging targeting the Latinx community and Spanish-speaking communities on these platforms.

00:13:52.840 And so, yeah, I think that much like with the insurrection, when you have just an accepted baseline of inaccurate information about people who have abortions, about abortion providers, about underrepresented or marginalized communities, it can actually translate to real-world violence, real-world danger, real-world threats.

00:14:13.700 This is not something that is just happening online.

00:14:16.020 Researchers have been very clear about that.

00:14:22.840 Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense.

00:14:29.740 Will they finally eat the veggies?

00:14:31.220 Will the pesto survive the first bite?

00:14:33.260 Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

00:14:37.320 And will you finish Episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

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00:15:25.340 If your bookshelf and your For You page

00:15:27.320 are equally important to your personality,

00:15:29.760 welcome home.

00:15:31.300 This is Prose Society,

00:15:33.380 the weekly podcast that's part book club,

00:15:35.920 part group chat for thought daughters,

00:15:37.680 pop culture obsessives,

00:15:38.900 and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice

00:15:40.700 and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

00:15:43.640 I'm Eli Rallo, and every week,

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00:16:25.440 When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

00:16:31.260 I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:16:37.600 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

00:16:41.180 I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, 0.99

00:16:46.820 Shut up. Don't say anything. 0.99

00:16:49.760 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

00:16:54.040 I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me.

00:16:58.600 I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

00:17:05.560 They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:17:10.060 But these aren't stories about what's taken from them.

00:17:12.960 There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:17:17.120 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:17:31.200 You know, one of the things that I just read and we just know that happened in Kentucky is they passed the born alive abortion ban,

00:17:38.740 which is nothing more than a political statement

00:17:42.280 trying to do some fear mongering

00:17:44.740 saying this is what's happening

00:17:45.700 this is what the Democrats are doing 0.99

00:17:47.020 you see they're killing the babies after they're born 0.98

00:17:48.820 which is absolutely false

00:17:50.420 but then we have a narrative

00:17:51.620 where they actually put it into law

00:17:53.320 so it seems like it's real

00:17:54.940 because like here's an amendment

00:17:56.400 that's added to state law

00:17:58.020 we have to address it as making it illegal

00:18:00.260 because it's happening so much

00:18:02.100 which is a part of that misinformation

00:18:04.240 that is being thrown out there

00:18:06.500 but it's so scary

00:18:08.880 which is also why this back and forth about this unity

00:18:11.600 and letting people go because, you know,

00:18:13.320 they didn't know what they were doing.

00:18:14.800 Trump told them to do it.

00:18:15.980 All this is this level of giving some kind of meat

00:18:20.020 to this rumor, which is completely unfounded.

00:18:22.920 But because it's a political move,

00:18:25.920 it's so scary to see because once again,

00:18:29.400 here we go with this misinformation,

00:18:31.060 not just being a rumor, not just being an outright lie,

00:18:33.840 which obviously people are believing anyway,

00:18:37.780 How do you see with all of that, with that type of strategy, with that type of fear mongering, that's actually a part of our government structure.

00:18:44.740 How do you see that bleeding into things like these riots?

00:18:48.400 Oh, my gosh.

00:18:49.220 It's so incredibly frustrating.

00:18:50.840 Like what you just described, I have worked in the feminist movement and, you know, spaces like that for most of my adult life.

00:18:57.760 And it's not new, but it is it sure is frustrating.

00:19:01.120 You know, when we spend actual resources and time and energy on things that are not true, things that are just like fabrications, and I understand the sentiment.

00:19:14.700 You know, a good example is when Project Veritas put out those videos purporting to show Planned Parenthood staffers talking about selling body parts and this and that.

00:19:23.900 That was a fabrication, but yet we still had to spend time and resources combating something that

00:19:31.180 was a lie. And I think that you're exactly right that, yes, it's annoying that taxpayer money and

00:19:35.920 resources get spent on making laws or legislation about things that just aren't happening.

00:19:40.760 But even more than that, it's like it takes up so much oxygen in the room. What meaningful

00:19:46.220 policies could we be discussing or getting passed? What kind of progress are we not able to get to

00:19:52.580 because we were too busy spitting in a circle

00:19:55.360 about something that was a lie.

00:19:56.800 So I think that as much as what you just described

00:19:58.920 is horrible, it's also just,

00:20:01.400 it's such a waste because it just takes up so much energy.

00:20:04.940 People have to spend their time combating against things

00:20:08.000 that are just lies.

00:20:09.200 And I think that we really have to get to a place

00:20:11.340 in this country where,

00:20:12.640 I'm not gonna say it started with Trump,

00:20:14.340 but he certainly didn't help.

00:20:15.680 I feel like we've gotten to a place

00:20:17.080 where people don't understand that there's lies

00:20:19.540 and there's truth.

00:20:20.500 And you can have your opinion.

00:20:21.900 There are things where you're like, oh, well, I'm not so sure.

00:20:24.400 Of course.

00:20:25.300 But at the end of the day, some things are just lies.

00:20:27.580 We have a lot facing us as a country.

00:20:29.600 We don't have time or resources to spend on things that are just lies.

00:20:33.240 We got to get back to a place where we can all agree like some things are just not true

00:20:36.540 and not worth taking the oxygen out of the room to combat them.

00:20:40.800 You know what I mean?

00:20:41.420 Right.

00:20:41.940 So with that, because of stuff like that, it adds another additional need of protection

00:20:47.100 for women specifically, but even men.

00:20:49.740 And of course, we can go into the conversation about how anti-abortion movement is actually a misogynistic movement in order to control women's bodies.

00:20:56.100 That's a whole conversation we've had before. 0.83

00:20:58.100 Probably need to have all the times.

00:20:59.960 But when we look at things like this riot, when we look at the people who are actually involved with it, like you said, they were able to pinpoint, hey, that dude is known for coming to threaten women.

00:21:08.480 That dude is known for harassing women, trying to get to an abortion clinic just to have a conversation or even supporting Planned Parenthood.

00:21:15.780 How do things like legislation like this feed into movements like this that causes this like violent rhetoric and almost mob lynching mentality?

00:21:27.280 Yeah, it's a great question.

00:21:28.260 I think it legitimizes them.

00:21:30.000 I think when we treat movements that are not above threatening, violent tactics, agitation, things like that.

00:21:38.080 Of course, I'm a protester.

00:21:39.520 You know, I've been protesting since I was a child.

00:21:41.560 So I completely, a thousand percent support anyone's free speech and ability to assemble and protest.

00:21:50.080 Even if it's for something I don't agree with, that is a protected thing.

00:21:53.280 And I find it to be quite sacred.

00:21:55.080 However, harassing people trying to get to a clinic so that they can't get into the door, that's different, right?

00:22:01.380 Threatening violence, that's different.

00:22:02.920 And so I think that when lawmakers, public policy officials, folks like that, when they create policy that says, oh, what you're saying, that's okay.

00:22:13.320 Like, okay, we'll put out a law that says this thing that is not happening, it's against the law now.

00:22:19.620 It's like, I feel like it just legitimizes and emboldens people that they can use these kinds of tactics to get what they want, right?

00:22:26.800 And that's to go back to the insurrection for a moment.

00:22:28.800 I think that's one of the things that's been so frustrating in the aftermath of this conversation.

00:22:32.580 people saying things like,

00:22:33.600 well, you know,

00:22:34.640 if we vote to impeach Trump,

00:22:36.400 that's just going to make them more angry.

00:22:38.580 And it's like, we can't have this.

00:22:40.020 It's like, we can't live in a country

00:22:41.840 where we are afraid to do

00:22:44.800 what's needed to be done

00:22:46.120 because people think that it's okay

00:22:49.120 to respond with violence

00:22:50.540 when they don't get their way.

00:22:51.620 It's like, we can't have that.

00:22:52.920 A country can't be built on that.

00:22:54.360 Right. Yeah.

00:22:55.740 And going back to this anti-abortion movement

00:22:59.680 and its relation to the insurrection,

00:23:03.280 it's something we've been talking about a lot lately

00:23:06.160 and it's been on my mind a lot lately

00:23:08.060 is how kind of new it is.

00:23:10.640 Like in a lot of ways, it's old,

00:23:12.560 but like the strength with the Republican Party

00:23:15.120 with conservatism and women

00:23:17.080 or people just voting on abortion

00:23:19.440 and then how like emotional an issue that is for people.

00:23:24.200 And then, like you said,

00:23:25.460 all of this like these false facts

00:23:28.260 and disinformation and misinformation.

00:23:30.480 And people who were watching this

00:23:32.480 and who were listening to Trump

00:23:34.800 and watching this, like,

00:23:37.340 well, I guess, like,

00:23:39.420 we didn't know it was going to be a riot then,

00:23:41.040 but this thing he was holding,

00:23:43.020 and they were saying, like,

00:23:43.780 no, this is the anti-abortion movement

00:23:46.700 is going to be involved in it.

00:23:49.240 And it turns out, yes.

00:23:51.940 Can you talk about that some?

00:23:53.600 Yes, that's exactly right.

00:23:55.000 So here's what Aaron Mattson,

00:23:56.440 the executive director of ReproAction,

00:23:57.920 which they track anti-abortion activists.

00:24:00.120 Here's what she said.

00:24:00.820 She says, anti-abortion agitators have been calling

00:24:03.560 and supporting the president,

00:24:04.980 I guess the then president.

00:24:08.900 The president's called a storm Washington for some time.

00:24:12.020 I know and I am confident that as time goes on

00:24:14.460 and more and more of these photos are analyzed,

00:24:16.180 that we'll see more overlap

00:24:17.380 between the anti-abortion movement

00:24:18.640 and the white supremacists

00:24:19.940 who tried to overthrow the United States of America. 1.00

00:24:22.300 And she was completely right. 0.99

00:24:23.880 A number of very prominent anti-abortion voices

00:24:26.280 were present at the Capitol on June 6th.

00:24:28.320 And this is not a coincidence.

00:24:30.340 There has been this longstanding crossover

00:24:32.100 between the two movements,

00:24:33.280 the anti-abortion movement

00:24:34.220 and white supremacist terror movements.

00:24:36.260 Like that is not a new thing.

00:24:37.760 It's, as you all have done

00:24:38.900 such a great job of talking about,

00:24:40.080 there's so much to untangle

00:24:42.420 when it comes to, you know,

00:24:44.240 white supremacist movements,

00:24:45.540 anti-abortion movements,

00:24:46.640 anti-women movements.

00:24:48.140 They're all kind of in the same 0.96

00:24:49.900 f***ed up mixed bag, 0.96

00:24:51.360 I guess you would say. 0.97

00:24:53.360 And Vice had a really great rundown of all of the different prominent anti-abortion voices

00:24:59.380 who were at the Capitol that day. 0.75

00:25:01.380 Abby Johnson, she's one of the nation's highest profile anti-abortion activists.

00:25:05.300 And she was in D.C.

00:25:06.380 She tweeted an image of herself at the Trump rally that preceded the invasion of the Capitol.

00:25:10.740 And she wrote, front row with the most pro-life president of our country.

00:25:14.920 John Brokhoft, who is a convicted abortion clinic bomber,

00:25:18.480 live streamed himself at the Capitol on January 6th, as he put it,

00:25:21.440 quote, fighting for our beloved President Donald J. Trump.

00:25:24.940 Taylor Hansen, who you might know,

00:25:26.300 he got very popular by putting these murals up

00:25:28.980 all over the country that said baby lives matter.

00:25:31.660 He was there.

00:25:32.440 And also Derek Evans,

00:25:33.820 a member of the West Virginia House of Delicates,

00:25:35.840 live streamed a video of himself in a helmet

00:25:37.520 urging rioters to break into the building.

00:25:39.740 And two years earlier,

00:25:41.100 a court forbid Evans from having any contact with a woman

00:25:43.520 who helped escort patients

00:25:45.060 at West Virginia's lone abortion clinic

00:25:46.880 after she accused him of regularly standing outside

00:25:49.840 and harassing her.

00:25:50.800 So these are people who have documented histories of A, either being very prominent anti-abortion voices, or B, I guess showing themselves to not be above threats and violence to push their extreme anti-abortion agenda.

00:26:05.580 So it's not a coincidence that these folks also felt that that kind of extremism was an appropriate response to be used in the Capitol, you know?

00:26:14.960 Right. And, you know, as you're talking about specifically Evans and, of course, he actually resigned because of people actually being like, hey, oh, this is not good. Let's not have him represent us, which is nice to see, I guess.

00:26:27.460 But he being a violent person who came yelling after and harassed to the point that women were scared, that was one of the other conversations they were having with the anti-abortion was many of the people are like, hey, that dude, he has so much domestic violence.

00:26:39.840 If you look at his rap sheet, that dude is known as being violent towards women.

00:26:43.620 Like all of these things that had shown obvious, oh, oh, oh, these are the dudes who end up being shooters.

00:26:50.080 Like that's kind of that mass shooter conversation.

00:26:52.560 Like these are the same people who are going after people, going to harass and try to assassinate candidates.

00:26:59.960 And we also saw many who were obviously like the Proud Boys who were very racist. 0.93

00:27:04.200 And we knew they were racist and we knew they were white supremacists and they're proud to be white supremacists. 0.97

00:27:08.620 Like you see all of these people like, oh, those are the violent who are racist and sexist. 0.94

00:27:13.980 How do you think that this type of disinformation led to them being the ones that led the riots?

00:27:19.580 I mean, it's a great question.

00:27:20.640 I'm not at all surprised.

00:27:21.960 You know, we know that disinformation largely impacts underrepresented people.

00:27:27.520 So it largely is fueled by these horrible distortions about who we are, whether it's women, black folks, other communities of color.

00:27:35.200 disinformation is fueled by racist, sexist, like the worst racist, sexist imaginings of who we are,

00:27:43.220 right? That's complete caricatures. And so it is not surprising to me that these people

00:27:46.940 would be fueled by this kind of hateful content and really truly believe it. And I think,

00:27:53.180 you know, to your point, the fact of the matter is I'm happy that Evans resigned,

00:27:58.060 that I'm to the point where whenever there's some sort of like accountability or consequence,

00:28:02.000 I'm like, oh, wow, look at that.

00:28:03.380 Someone faced a consequence.

00:28:04.760 They still have those.

00:28:05.940 But these are people who have scary backgrounds, right?

00:28:10.360 People who have shown themselves to not be above using violence to get what they want.

00:28:15.460 And you're exactly right that because we don't take violence against women very seriously,

00:28:20.640 most times when there's a mass shooter or some sort of mass scale violence,

00:28:25.200 behind that there is a trail of people who tried to sound the alarm, usually women.

00:28:30.080 You know, I think it was on Christmas Eve, that guy who, he set off a bomb in, was it, I want to say Tennessee?

00:28:36.480 Yeah, Nashville.

00:28:37.600 Nashville, thank you.

00:28:38.680 Come to find out, his girlfriend previously was like, I think he's making a bomb, right?

00:28:43.660 Like, pretty clearly, you know, and it's like, I wish we could get to a place where violence against women was disqualifying.

00:28:51.400 That, like, people just didn't let it slide because it so often is an indicator that something else bad is going to happen.

00:28:57.480 And I just wish that we lived in a world where these kinds of warnings were taken seriously instead of being ignored.

00:29:03.320 Right. When we talk about disinformation happening and we see it being targeted towards women specifically, I was kind of shocked to see how many women really, really dug into QAnon and the whole like, I have to protect my babies, I have to protect my babies.

00:29:16.900 But when it comes down to the violence, more often than not, it's the men.

00:29:20.920 And again, of course, we've had this conversation, again, how misogyny plays a bigger part of anti-abortion movements than we know.

00:29:27.980 How do we see that men end up taking these kind of initiatives and owning them, I guess is the word, and then taking it into such a route that it becomes a volatile, bigger movement than what is online?

00:29:42.400 So what I'm saying is, like, we see a lot of QAnon misinformation, and we found out that Instagram was one of the biggest connections for women.

00:29:49.860 And she's using, like, influencers to talk to these women who feel like they need to do all of these things.

00:29:55.040 But when it comes down to, like, Parler and when it comes down to Reddit and 4chan, it's the men who initiate these, like, kind of responses of, we have to do something, let's get armed.

00:30:05.060 And we see that misinformation being played into anti-abortion movements, into the only person who can save our country is former President Trump.

00:30:14.720 How do we see this information being played out where it becomes such a bigger conspiracy theory that it does lead to violence?

00:30:22.100 Wow, that's a long-winded question. I'm sorry.

00:30:24.380 I mean, it's a big question.

00:30:26.600 I think that we know that if you hear something enough times that people eventually believe it.

00:30:31.800 And so the more times that you hear something,

00:30:34.180 the more times that you hear a false claim

00:30:35.720 go completely unchecked,

00:30:37.320 people are likely to believe it.

00:30:39.420 I hope that this is understood in the spirit

00:30:41.560 with which I mean it.

00:30:43.040 People who are out to disinform,

00:30:46.040 out to cause chaos and confusion,

00:30:48.180 they're very smart and they're very savvy

00:30:50.100 and they're very good at it.

00:30:51.320 And I think that the dynamic that you just described

00:30:53.520 where there's sort of a softer version of it

00:30:56.160 for women to get them involved

00:30:57.740 and then a lot of the violence is led by men,

00:31:00.880 I think that is a really smart, savvy way to structure a movement. And somebody once told me

00:31:09.140 whatever the movement is, there's never any kind of movement without women, right? And so I do think 1.00

00:31:13.760 that we have to have some tough conversations about the role that women played, because

00:31:16.980 one of the first people to die in the insurrection was Ashley Babbitt, a woman who had been

00:31:21.900 completely, completely just like consumed by QAnon conspiracy theories. And so I think that 0.76

00:31:29.200 you see women sort of being indoctrinated

00:31:32.760 to be sort of like the foot soldiers of this movement

00:31:35.340 where men are largely the ones

00:31:38.680 who are pushing for violence,

00:31:41.120 like your Boogaloo Boys and things of that nature. 1.00

00:31:43.420 That serves a very important function 1.00

00:31:45.620 because I think that if women are feeling like, 1.00

00:31:49.160 well, I need to support this 0.61

00:31:50.220 because it's going to keep me feeling safe.

00:31:53.060 It's going to keep my position in society intact.

00:31:55.780 It's a very smart way to have these kinds of conspiracy theories be gendered in the way that they are, because I think it does ensure that, you know, if you're a woman who maybe isn't so into the whole politics thing, but you know you don't like the idea of children being targeted so you get wrapped up in QAnon, I think that the idea that the men storming the Capitol are going to create safety for you and your children,

00:32:23.360 And I can understand why that's a seductive message.

00:32:26.900 You know, look at the way that Trump messaged 0.99

00:32:28.360 to white suburban women all throughout the election, 0.79

00:32:31.360 saying things like, oh, if you vote for Biden, 1.00

00:32:33.740 quote, Antifa is going to be at your front door.

00:32:36.260 You know, you're going to have riots

00:32:38.480 and you're in your streets.

00:32:39.680 You know, your kids aren't safe.

00:32:41.420 I think that he messaged that way

00:32:42.900 because I think it's effective.

00:32:44.000 Everybody wants to be safe.

00:32:45.140 And I think it's a really smart way

00:32:47.340 to ensure that everybody is bought in,

00:32:50.600 even if you're not like a violent person

00:32:52.160 and you're not going to be the one breaking windows

00:32:54.420 and trying to, like, hunt down members of Congress with zip ties,

00:32:58.820 you might be supportive of it

00:33:00.220 if you feel that, like, that's what the men have to do,

00:33:02.680 quote-unquote, to restore order

00:33:04.460 and keep you and your family safe.

00:33:05.980 It's very savvy, and part of me kind of is not surprised 0.99

00:33:09.160 that it works on so many women. 0.98

00:33:10.800 Right, right.

00:33:12.180 It was interesting to see also, like, the mothers with their sons.

00:33:15.520 We had at least two examples of those,

00:33:17.240 and I was like, hmm.

00:33:18.740 Which, I know there's been articles about that as well,

00:33:21.340 including the fact that one of the young men

00:33:23.340 who actually is from Georgia,

00:33:25.060 Blue Ridge, near my hometown,

00:33:26.880 blamed his mother in the testimony.

00:33:30.660 He actually blamed his mother. 1.00

00:33:32.880 What an ass. 1.00

00:33:35.460 I mean, this poor woman. 1.00

00:33:37.920 She was there.

00:33:39.200 She was with them.

00:33:39.660 Oh, she was there too? 1.00

00:33:40.660 Okay, well then, fuck her. 1.00

00:33:43.680 No, but I'm saying like, 1.00

00:33:45.020 I mean, that really does tell you all you need to know, right?

00:33:46.980 That, you know, if you get caught storming the Capitol,

00:33:49.620 that like, oh, my mom didn't raise me right,

00:33:52.320 that that would be your first excuse. 1.00

00:33:54.460 Honestly, this mom should be like, 1.00

00:33:55.720 wow, I really didn't do such a hot job. 0.93

00:33:58.600 I have to wonder what her response was

00:34:00.420 because all I read was his testimony

00:34:01.840 in which he was like, yeah, my mom told me to do this.

00:34:04.020 My mom told me to pick those up.

00:34:05.320 My mom did this.

00:34:06.000 And it was quite funny because I was like,

00:34:08.040 dude, you come in here trying to be big, masculine. 0.70

00:34:12.080 I'm going to kidnap these people 0.99

00:34:13.700 and then be like, my mama did it. 0.99

00:34:16.420 Right. 1.00

00:34:17.380 Throwing your own mother under the bus.

00:34:19.620 It is funny that you say this because I have noticed a lot of these people are being released to their parents or in the care of like family members and things of that nature.

00:34:28.600 Your point is such a good one where it's like, what happened to like, oh, we're storming the Capitol and we're, you know, big and bad and blah, blah, blah.

00:34:35.160 And now when you get caught, you're like, oh, well, I got to release me to my mommy.

00:34:39.120 I was like, which is it?

00:34:40.000 If you're going to be an insurrectionist, at least like do it with your chest.

00:34:43.200 Well, and just coming back to because I think this is just a simple question.

00:34:47.420 And I do and I don't understand this.

00:34:49.420 How did the anti-abortion movement

00:34:50.840 become the center of this riot almost?

00:34:54.540 I think that there's so much overlap between the two

00:34:57.380 that I think a lot of these people saw Donald Trump

00:35:00.360 as the person who was going to, in their eyes,

00:35:02.960 restore the rights of children and the unborn, right?

00:35:05.780 And so it's not even the question of like,

00:35:07.920 how did it become?

00:35:08.880 I think it was always there.

00:35:10.200 I think so many of the people at the forefront

00:35:12.220 of the insurrection also did have this history

00:35:15.900 with the anti-abortion movement.

00:35:17.420 I think it's like the same way that you cannot unpack their white supremacist leanings, their anti-women leanings, their anti-immigrant leanings.

00:35:26.280 I think it's all one big ball of yarn that led us here.

00:35:29.760 And the fact of the matter is you even saw anti-abortion groups spreading this complete lie that, quote, Antifa was responsible, even though we know that's not true, even though we know many of these people live streamed their crimes.

00:35:43.540 You know, Kristen Hawkins, who is the head of Students for Life of America, which is the nation's biggest anti-abortion student group, she blamed Antifa members and other rioters for storming the Capitol.

00:35:52.760 And so you already have the mainstream anti-abortion movement circling the wagons to protect the violent actions of these people, some of whom are probably doing this in support of their anti-abortion ideology.

00:36:07.640 Yeah, it's so frustrating.

00:36:08.880 I hate that when you're like, but it's this video.

00:36:12.260 It's here.

00:36:12.580 They can still be like, no, no.

00:36:15.100 So we did see just so much racism and sexism on display at this riot. 0.67

00:36:22.180 And there were a lot of conversations afterwards, rightfully so, comparing the police and like public's reaction to Black Lives Matter protests versus this riot. 0.96

00:36:32.520 And then also you have in this handy outline you gave us the history between abortion clinic violence and how that kind of overlaps with what happened. 0.90

00:36:44.920 Absolutely. So one of the things I think is really interesting about what some of these abortion activists and advocates are saying is that the same way that many of us, myself included, were disgusted watching the police take selfies with the rioters and shake their hands and just generally seem very buddy-buddy with the rioters, that is very similar to what abortion advocates and clinic workers have reported when they try to engage the police to report violence or threats happening at their clinics.

00:37:11.920 And so, this is a little piece from Refinery29.

00:37:14.180 She says,

00:37:14.820 In August 1979, a Fort Wayne, Indiana abortion clinic received a bomb threat.

00:37:19.440 The city refused to dispatch either police or fire officials, forcing clinic staff to search for the bomb themselves.

00:37:25.400 Nearly 40 years later, Becca Ballinger, a clinic escort in New York City, called in a complaint about protesters violating the 15-foot buffer zone at the clinic.

00:37:33.760 When he arrived, she told Refinery29, she watched the responding officer approach the violator, shake his hand, and give him a hug.

00:37:41.280 He then turned to the group of clinic escorts and said, 0.57

00:37:44.260 what are you doing to restrict their First Amendment rights today?

00:37:47.660 And I think that one, it enraged me.

00:37:49.860 It was like, find this guy.

00:37:51.260 But I do think it shows the level to which the police

00:37:55.140 can sort of not always be counted on

00:37:57.560 to be restoring public order.

00:38:00.840 The same way that we saw police be buddy-buddy

00:38:03.540 with the rioters at the Capitol.

00:38:05.160 Abortion rights activists have said,

00:38:06.660 like, this is not surprising. 1.00

00:38:07.740 This is exactly how it is

00:38:08.840 when we have called to report threats or violence at clinics.

00:38:11.920 And the fact of the matter is the Associated Press

00:38:13.680 found that law enforcement agencies nationwide

00:38:16.000 have said that at least 31 officers in 12 states

00:38:19.180 are being scrutinized by their supervisors

00:38:21.020 for their behavior at the Capitol, right?

00:38:23.540 And so we know that the same way

00:38:25.620 that we definitely have a problem

00:38:26.980 with needing to root out people

00:38:29.080 that have white supremacist ties

00:38:30.680 who are serving in police forces,

00:38:32.260 it is not a stretch to imagine

00:38:33.680 that that is also a problem

00:38:35.580 when it comes to anti-abortion ideology,

00:38:38.200 that police officers, they might feel sympathetic to people who would be threatening violence at a

00:38:44.380 clinic, right? And so these abortion advocates have been saying, yes, we have been ringing the

00:38:48.180 alarm about the fact that the police have seemed to be buddy-buddy with agitators at our clinics

00:38:53.140 for years. Again, it's just one of those things. It's a tough conversation to have. But we do need

00:38:58.100 to talk about the ways that some of these darker forces have infiltrated our police, the people who

00:39:03.140 are meant to be restoring order, you know? And so I do think we have to have these kinds of tough

00:39:08.400 conversations that put these things at the forefront. Yeah. And there's such a, like we've

00:39:14.240 been talking about with this like ball of yarn or these Venn diagrams and all this overlap,

00:39:17.860 because if you do look at the history of abortion clinics, like this is, this violence and

00:39:25.700 threatening of violence has been there for a long time, like since the beginning, right?

00:39:30.840 Yeah. I mean, anybody who has worked in the abortion or reproductive rights space can tell you this is not a new problem. And I just think we really have to grapple with the fact that so many people who work in these spaces have been warning that the unchecked spread of distortions and lies on social media about abortion and about clinics and about abortion providers will lead to real world violence.

00:39:53.820 And so I just think it's important to note how much overlap there was with the violence at the Capitol and the kind of violence that these abortion advocates have been warning of for years.

00:40:04.880 Yeah, it's so much, it's so much to untangle as we continue to have these conversations.

00:40:11.520 And certainly disinformation is a huge part of it.

00:40:16.280 Is there anything you want to shout out, any resources you want to shout out or I guess what people can be looking for?

00:40:22.400 Yeah, I'm sure I've said this on the show before, but the number one thing we can all do to curb disinformation is not amplify it.

00:40:28.880 Even if you're trying to dunk on it, even if you've got a great joke, sometimes it can be hard to resist.

00:40:33.240 I know it, but don't amplify it.

00:40:35.480 If you focus instead on kind of creating your own little pocket of the internet that can be known for trustworthy information, that it's such a better way to spend your time.

00:40:44.580 I think that we all have to really understand the way that like, this is not just something that's happening online.

00:40:49.820 You know, I referenced this great Lauren Rankin piece at Refinery29.

00:40:52.780 Folks should all read that.

00:40:54.440 But she points out that conspiracy theories and outlandish rhetoric aren't without consequences, particularly when encouraged by those in power.

00:41:02.040 In 2015, anti-abortion extremists launched a highly visible smear campaign against Planned Parenthood featuring doctored videos that accused the organization of illegally selling fetal body parts.

00:41:11.580 It was absurd and completely untrue, but that didn't stop congressional Republicans from embracing the conspiracy theory, decrying Planned Parenthood, and opening an investigation into the organization.

00:41:21.340 Just a few months later, Robert Deer opened fire on a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, killing three people, including a security guard.

00:41:29.460 He confessed that he was, quote, upset with them performing abortions and selling baby parts, a direct reference to the cooked-up anti-abortion smear campaign,

00:41:37.680 A conspiracy theory that certainly has echoes in other far-right conspiracies like QAnon.

00:41:43.120 And so, again, these are not just things people are saying online.

00:41:48.060 They can have real-world consequences.

00:41:49.720 Just like the continued, repeated lie that Trump won the election and that it was being stolen

00:41:54.800 led to violence at the Capitol, the more that we tolerate just unchecked conspiracy theories

00:42:00.040 and allow them to seep into our mainstream institutions like our Congress and our government,

00:42:06.020 the higher the risk for real-world danger and real-world violence.

00:42:10.340 And so do not think this is just happening online.

00:42:12.620 This is a real thing that has real consequences for all of us.

00:42:15.380 So with that, because as we talked about,

00:42:17.720 they were already putting in laws that don't make sense,

00:42:20.340 that are just political games,

00:42:21.640 in order to continue this rhetoric of lies for anti-abortion reasons,

00:42:26.540 as well as the fact that even though Trump is gone,

00:42:30.120 still the lie of voter suppression is very well in play,

00:42:33.060 as in fact, you know, in the state of Georgia,

00:42:34.520 and I think I saw it in the state of North Carolina,

00:42:36.700 they're already revamping up new ways to suppress votes.

00:42:39.920 We've got Republican state lawmakers here in Georgia

00:42:42.940 doing new laws to try to take away from absentee voting, 0.74

00:42:47.200 shutting down all the polls.

00:42:48.800 So all of this disinformation,

00:42:50.420 like even though it's kind of like,

00:42:51.540 okay, we can kind of push it aside

00:42:52.760 because Biden's finally in office,

00:42:55.260 this anti-abortion rhetoric is not gone.

00:42:57.260 Just because we have an actual pro-abortion,

00:42:59.780 pro-choice people in office

00:43:01.100 doesn't mean this fight's not over.

00:43:02.880 What can we do as a listener?

00:43:04.760 What can we do as the people behind here?

00:43:06.660 As we see, it's not just online.

00:43:08.820 What can we do in real life to help a stop the spread, but also be an advocate?

00:43:13.900 I think the fact that, I forget the numbers, but there are a lot of Republicans, lawmakers

00:43:20.180 right now who to this day will not say that the election was not stolen.

00:43:25.940 We have kind of like the idea of, quote, legal votes has made it into our lexicon as if there

00:43:32.320 is a widespread documented pattern of voting irregularities in this country. There just is

00:43:37.760 not. There are, in every election, you have people where it's like, oh, I was voting for my son who's

00:43:43.460 at college or this or that. There's always a smattering of sketchiness here or there, but

00:43:48.620 there is not any kind of documented widespread voting irregularities in this election or in any

00:43:55.040 of our last recent elections, right? And so the fact that things like, oh, well, I think we should

00:43:59.460 count legal votes, has become part of our lexicon and has been sort of seen to be kind of a

00:44:06.020 moderate thing, I think has done such a great disservice to our democracy. I don't think we

00:44:11.740 will know how bad it is for many years. You know, I think it planted a seed in a lot of people that

00:44:19.640 maybe will never go away. And honestly, I think one thing that we can all do is just being willing

00:44:25.060 to push back on the echoes of these fabrications.

00:44:28.800 So whether, you know, if someone says,

00:44:30.040 well, I think we should count every legal vote,

00:44:31.920 being willing to say like,

00:44:33.040 well, you know, what do you mean by that?

00:44:34.520 You know, tell me, do you think

00:44:35.300 there's a lot of illegal votes out there?

00:44:37.100 Like, what do they look like?

00:44:37.880 How often are they happening?

00:44:39.040 I think being willing to interrogate these claims

00:44:42.940 so that they cannot become part of our fabric

00:44:45.740 of understanding the world

00:44:47.120 because they're based on lies.

00:44:48.420 The same way that when people say like,

00:44:50.000 oh, did you know that Joe Biden supports abortion

00:44:52.680 up until five minutes before delivery

00:44:55.400 and saying, that's not true.

00:44:56.780 That is incorrect.

00:44:57.800 If someone was trying to do a abortion

00:44:59.000 five minutes before you were meant to be in labor,

00:45:01.800 that would be a crime.

00:45:02.820 That's not happening.

00:45:03.880 And that's incorrect.

00:45:05.420 Just being willing to push back

00:45:08.240 on these ideas that are based on nothing

00:45:11.120 in ways that are going to actually prevent them

00:45:13.740 from becoming part of the fabric

00:45:15.320 of how we understand the world

00:45:16.520 because they're based on lies.

00:45:17.800 I know that is a tall order,

00:45:19.420 but we have enough in this world to contend with.

00:45:22.100 So we don't need more.

00:45:23.960 Right.

00:45:25.180 Stop adding more.

00:45:26.360 That's fair.

00:45:35.520 Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense.

00:45:39.780 Will they finally eat the veggies?

00:45:41.280 Will the pesto survive the first bite?

00:45:43.320 Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

00:45:47.380 And will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers?

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00:46:35.320 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home.

00:46:41.260 This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters,

00:46:47.420 pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the

00:46:52.020 same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books,

00:46:57.420 the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.

00:47:00.840 I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

00:47:04.280 From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments,

00:47:09.280 nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling

00:47:15.440 characters and that is a trojan horse whether you're looking for literary deep dives smart

00:47:20.700 pop culture conversations or a community of readers who love to think a little too much

00:47:25.440 you're in the right place listen to pro society on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever

00:47:31.920 you get your podcasts see you between the pages when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held

00:47:39.320 captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive

00:47:45.520 what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files. I just

00:47:51.680 remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything. Every week I'm 0.68

00:48:00.820 with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going

00:48:07.820 to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started

00:48:14.500 screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories

00:48:21.240 about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:48:27.100 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app,

00:48:31.740 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:48:37.820 you know i just have to ask you one last thing because you have been in it you have been in it

00:48:45.840 whether physically because you're in dc or because you're part of things like ultraviolet

00:48:51.060 and talking about this information what have you been doing for yourself for self-care because we

00:48:57.100 haven't asked this question a long time but that's been a part of our mo so what is your self-care oh

00:49:01.680 Oh, my God, I'm so excited to talk about this.

00:49:03.400 It's funny.

00:49:04.000 I mean, it was my mantra the last few weeks.

00:49:08.200 It's like, I got to get to inauguration.

00:49:09.480 I got to get to inauguration.

00:49:10.420 I got to get to inauguration.

00:49:11.160 Like, I had not been doing a great job of taking care of myself

00:49:14.100 because there was so much.

00:49:15.520 After the insurrection on the 6th,

00:49:16.900 I think that everybody in my little community here in D.C.

00:49:19.860 was just, we had just had enough.

00:49:22.400 We had just had it.

00:49:23.440 But, you know, one of the things that I do

00:49:25.140 to really keep myself grounded and restore myself

00:49:29.080 is really is being outside.

00:49:30.280 And so this weekend, I went on a lovely hike in George Washington National Forest.

00:49:34.140 And it was very restorative, even though it was cold as balls.

00:49:37.520 Yeah, so just trying to spend time outside, trying to remember that I can only consume so much.

00:49:45.900 I can only do so much.

00:49:47.180 You know, if I read every new take from what happened in the insurrection or every new horrible thing that's going on,

00:49:54.360 I won't necessarily be any better informed or be any better poised to, like, make a difference.

00:49:58.320 and something I can really do to make sure

00:50:00.140 that I'm better poised to make a difference

00:50:01.500 is like sleep, take care of myself, take breaks.

00:50:04.780 And I encourage everybody to do that.

00:50:06.260 You know, it can be enticing

00:50:08.460 to want to refresh Twitter a million times a day

00:50:11.480 and get every new update of every new detail

00:50:14.340 of every new story.

00:50:15.460 But that does not necessarily translate

00:50:18.160 to you being better informed or a better ally

00:50:21.280 or a better fighter in this movement.

00:50:22.860 So I appreciate you guys making the space

00:50:25.060 to talk about that

00:50:26.460 because I think it does get erased in the movement

00:50:29.040 that like taking care of yourself is very important.

00:50:31.440 So yeah, I encourage everybody to.

00:50:32.760 It's important.

00:50:33.400 What are you two doing?

00:50:34.680 Oh, I'm drinking a lot of coffee.

00:50:36.460 Oh, I'm writing fan fiction.

00:50:39.680 And I got a walking treadmill desk.

00:50:43.200 Like a really cheap one.

00:50:44.500 Like a really cheap.

00:50:45.560 I don't want anyone to be like, wow.

00:50:47.120 No, it's very cheap and small, but I like it.

00:50:50.380 I love it.

00:50:50.940 It's nice.

00:50:51.520 Is it under your desk right now?

00:50:53.460 No, this is my podcast desk.

00:50:55.420 It's under my research desk.

00:50:57.260 Okay.

00:50:58.000 Yes.

00:50:58.840 You have two separate spaces.

00:51:00.000 It sounds like you're so rich.

00:51:01.520 My closet doesn't have enough space for a treadmill.

00:51:05.400 Even if it is a small one.

00:51:07.380 Oh, okay.

00:51:08.220 Well, I was trying to help you out there.

00:51:13.480 Yes.

00:51:14.080 Well, that's what I'm doing.

00:51:15.640 Yeah.

00:51:16.160 I honestly don't know.

00:51:18.980 Look, and it's not because I'm not doing things.

00:51:20.680 It's mainly because I am so disorganized with my time

00:51:24.020 because I am at the worst of keeping things separate.

00:51:27.580 So I'll work all the time

00:51:28.680 and then just sit all the time too.

00:51:30.440 So it's kind of like one or the other.

00:51:32.660 But for me, a lot of like,

00:51:34.380 I am a comfort person.

00:51:35.440 So I rewatch things that I love

00:51:37.400 and know how it's going to turn out

00:51:38.740 and then bask in that.

00:51:40.540 And then also a lot of cuddle times with my dog, 1.00

00:51:43.080 who was a jerk. 0.98

00:51:43.820 Why does it feel so good to like rewatch The Office 1.00

00:51:45.780 for the hundredth time?

00:51:47.060 Like, what is it about it that's so comforting?

00:51:48.980 Why?

00:51:49.040 It feels like friends.

00:51:50.540 And because you know it's coming,

00:51:52.040 you're not going to be shocked or disappointed.

00:51:53.780 It's true.

00:51:54.220 Or if you're going to be disappointed,

00:51:55.320 you already know it's going to be disappointing.

00:51:56.960 And sometimes you can fast forward through that.

00:51:58.600 Yeah.

00:51:59.540 What's your comfort show?

00:52:00.740 Oh, I have a few.

00:52:02.320 Supernatural has become one.

00:52:03.660 Thank you, Annie.

00:52:04.920 And I don't know why, but it has become one.

00:52:07.160 But also New Girl, Parks and Rec have become a few of them.

00:52:11.920 I watched some weird things like The Flash.

00:52:13.840 I really, really love that show.

00:52:14.980 And I just love how genuinely sweet it is. 0.58

00:52:17.280 So I watched really silly things like that.

00:52:19.220 And then I'll rewatch movies like Nobody's Business.

00:52:21.940 I love this.

00:52:22.640 It's like a prescription for self-care and comfort.

00:52:26.300 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:27.080 And also, I just wear soft pants.

00:52:28.680 That's my other comfort.

00:52:29.800 Soft pants, dog cuddles,

00:52:31.880 and television shows you've seen a million times before.

00:52:34.720 That sounds great.

00:52:37.760 Well, Bridget, what else do you think,

00:52:40.000 if we left anything out,

00:52:41.340 or if there's more resources that you want to provide,

00:52:43.920 is there anything else you want to add?

00:52:45.180 Well, I would say,

00:52:46.460 if you want to have more conversations about disinformation

00:52:49.460 and how it pertains to women and folks of color,

00:52:51.860 My podcast, There Are No Girls on the Internet, just released a brand new series all about disinformation called Disinformed.

00:52:58.360 You can check it out on this very network, iHeartRadio.

00:53:01.320 Awesome. Yeah. And definitely do that, listeners.

00:53:03.760 Bridget, you want to shout out any other places that the good listeners can find you?

00:53:07.660 Yes. I'm on Twitter at Bridget Marie and I'm on Instagram at Bridget Marie in D.C.

00:53:12.220 Well, thank you, as always, for being here.

00:53:15.520 You've managed to make it a delight, even though we're talking about things that are not so delightful.

00:53:21.860 It's a skill.

00:53:23.140 It's true.

00:53:23.720 Thank you.

00:53:24.260 I hope so.

00:53:24.880 You know, there's always room for humor,

00:53:26.720 even if it's gallows humor.

00:53:27.980 There's always room for humor.

00:53:29.380 Yes, yes, yes.

00:53:30.380 And we very much appreciate it.

00:53:32.440 Can't wait till you're back again.

00:53:34.940 Listeners, if you would like to email us,

00:53:36.500 you can or email us

00:53:37.540 stuffmediamomstuff at iheartmedia.com.

00:53:39.600 You can find us on Instagram

00:53:40.480 at Stuff Mom Never Told You

00:53:41.520 or on Twitter at Mom Stuff Podcast.

00:53:43.200 Thanks as always to our super producer,

00:53:45.580 Christina. 0.97

00:53:46.660 Hey, Christina.

00:53:48.320 And thanks to you for listening.

00:53:50.100 Stuff Mom Never Told You

00:53:50.780 a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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00:54:07.880 If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality,

00:54:12.380 welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone

00:54:18.180 who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island

00:54:20.140 deserve the same level of discourse.

00:54:22.260 Each week, we're connecting the dots

00:54:23.620 between books, the internet, and pop culture

00:54:25.740 with your favorite writers, book talk creators,

00:54:28.440 and plenty of overthought opinions.

00:54:30.500 Yeah, I'm obsessed, I'm obsessed.

00:54:32.280 Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

00:54:35.000 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:54:38.380 I survived nine months in captivity,

00:54:41.240 and I've spent my life exploring

00:54:43.500 how other people survive what should have destroyed them.

00:54:47.080 I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.

00:54:50.660 Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,

00:54:54.360 abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

00:54:58.200 These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

00:55:02.040 Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart

00:55:04.800 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

00:55:07.800 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:55:11.680 Hey, this is Hayes Davenport.

00:55:13.540 And Sean Clements.

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00:55:39.880 I'm Nick Turturro.

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There Are No Girls on the Internet - January 06, 2022

The Capitol insurrection was fueled by the anti-abortion movement

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Transcript