00:00:38.460and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them.
00:00:43.680I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files.
00:00:47.300Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable,
00:00:51.020abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.
00:00:54.640These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.
00:00:58.720Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:10.580There Are No Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative.
00:01:18.700I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are No Girls on the Internet.
00:01:21.440welcome to there are no girls on the internet where we explore the intersection of technology
00:01:28.400social media the internet and identity and this is another installment of our weekly news roundup
00:01:34.400where we're rounding up some of the stories that happened online that you might have missed
00:01:38.000this week mike thank you for being here bridget thanks for having me always a pleasure to be here
00:01:42.760i should say i am still in mazatlan mexico where i traveled to see the eclipse when i recorded the
00:01:51.140news roundup with Joey the previous week, I had not yet seen the eclipse. Now I have seen the
00:01:56.880eclipse. I feel that everything has changed. It's like, do you remember Corn Kid, where he says,
00:02:04.000when I tried corn with butter, everything changed. When I saw the eclipse in totality,
00:02:08.340everything changed. This is like you're putting butter on corn. Amazing. So where were you when
00:02:14.700you saw it? I was out on the beach. You know, I had these like very complicated plans to take a
00:02:22.940ferry to a small island and then hike up a little area. And then I was like, let's just go to the
00:02:29.460beach. So the whole, it felt like the whole city of Mazatlan came out to the beach to see it.
00:02:34.360I have never experienced totality. And for a really long time, everybody in my life had been
00:02:39.840telling me like, oh, totality is amazing. Like it's going to change your life. Like blah, blah,
00:02:43.560blah. I was like, oh, well, I've seen it from my office in eclipse classes from like downtown
00:02:48.980Washington, DC. Is that not the same thing? And people are like, no. And I always felt a little
00:02:53.340bit raw about it. If I'm being honest, my, I did not know this, but my father is an eclipse chaser.
00:02:59.040And I only learned that when I tried to say that I experienced an eclipse in a partial eclipse in
00:03:05.180DC. And he was like, no, you haven't. If you haven't been in totality, you haven't experienced
00:03:08.380shit yeah totality really but he was right he's right i mean he didn't have to say it so rudely0.58
00:03:14.220but totality really is a whole different thing you know somebody described being in 99 eclipse0.89
00:03:21.360as like driving 99 of the way to disney world and i feel that's like a good description right like
00:03:26.900unless you actually get all the way there uh you're not experiencing it yeah the eclipse was
00:03:34.960beautiful. It was sublime. Can't wait for the next one. Did you see this thing where there was like
00:03:41.940eclipse backlash? I'm not just talking about all the different wacky conspiracy theories that
00:03:47.260people said the eclipse was going to trigger, which obviously that's bunk. I mean, reasonable
00:03:52.340people who were like, stop being excited about the eclipse. Like, I'm not going to be pressured
00:03:57.980into caring about this eclipse. Did you see any of that? I did. And I found it super baffling and
00:04:03.560sort of like disappointing about society uh yeah it was like a whole category of content of people
00:04:09.760uh expressing anti-eclipse sentiment like don't be excited about it it's not that great
00:04:16.320uh who cares and then even after the eclipse i've seen some content that was like framed that way
00:04:23.760with like clickbaity headlines about what was the headline that i saw this morning just this morning
00:04:30.720uh somebody was like complaining about the eclipse because and then he got into the article and they
00:04:39.100were like it was so beautiful that now I don't know what to do with myself uh but the the headline
00:04:43.960was like clickbaity and anti-eclipse and so it's just I don't know it's like can't we have anything
00:04:49.780nice where we just feel good about something well that's my thing is that post eclipse I'm actually
00:04:56.380feeling a lot of for lack of a better phrase childlike wonder like I think like being around
00:05:04.520all these people who just wanted to marvel at this this celestial magic thing that happened in
00:05:10.620the sky and I don't know it's just like it felt like a whole day or people got to be excited about
00:05:15.880something that's pure and good and just like I don't know reading about how the only reason why
00:05:21.720we get eclipses this is because like our the sun and the moon happen to be the same size is that
00:05:28.280right uh yeah i mean it is kind of like i i want to say magical magic isn't the word but uh yeah
00:05:39.260like the the sizes are it seems like quite a quite a coincidence that the sizes are so aligned the
00:05:47.300way that they are considering how far apart these objects are. Yeah and I just think that's nice
00:05:52.980that it's this like coincidental thing that we as humans just get to experience and how lucky for us
00:05:59.180and yeah we should have more things that are just purely about Marvel for Marvel's sake and looking
00:06:06.560up at the sky and wonder. We don't get a lot of opportunities for for childlike wonder collectively
00:06:11.960so I'm still feeling the warm fuzzies from it I guess but I should also say that because I'm in
00:06:16.980Mexico still. I am still really close to a beach where there are roaming bands, which I learned
00:06:24.140actually they're called Banda bands. And Mazatlan, Mexico is the place where that tradition of like
00:06:30.180playing music on the beach and like wandering around. This is the hometown of that tradition.
00:06:36.380So go Mazatlan, Mexico. But you might hear a little bit of jubilation in the background is
00:06:41.960what i'm saying all right that's pretty cool i like the idea of roving bands of musicians
00:06:47.440traveling up and down the beach going back to that like childlike wonder at the beauty of
00:06:52.820nature and the universe uh i think that's sort of what that anti-eclipse article i read this morning
00:06:59.260was uh like pushing back against or complaining about because you know they had experienced it
00:07:06.180during this brief sublimely beautiful moment and then it passed and the author almost sounded like
00:07:14.400mad that now they had to go back to their normal humdrum life and they struggled to remember
00:07:23.280what it had been like during totality uh and you know i just think anger at the eclipse is one
00:07:31.880path a person could take to like deal with those feelings another path could be to try to seek out
00:07:39.080uh opportunities to marvel at the world uh more regularly right like
00:07:47.120our lives don't have to be soul-crushing grinds we can look up and wonder every now and again
00:07:54.100sounds like somebody's in the pocket of big eclipse mike yeah i'll admit it i'm i'm on the
00:07:59.400dole for big eclipse well speaking of soul crushing not everything is childlike wonder
00:08:06.520and this this is something that i've been experiencing a childlike sense of rage and
00:08:12.060infuriation i guess i might say yeah i guess children really do like whatever they're feeling
00:08:17.960they just really feel it intensely yeah so what do you feel in childlike rage about bridget so
00:08:24.460So Francesca Amaluda Rivers is an actor who was cast as Juliet in an upcoming London West End production of Romeo and Juliet, alongside Tom Holland, who you might know from those Spider-Man movies or Dating Zendaya, alongside him as Romeo.
00:08:38.120So the entire production is pretty racially diverse, but because Francesca is a dark-skinned Black woman, that means that her being cast as Juliet has led to this torrent of racist, sexist online abuse.
00:08:50.680People saying she's too ugly and too black to be a beautiful Juliet figure and that her casting is, quote, woke and that she did not deserve the role.
00:09:00.260So the Jamie Lloyd Company, which is the company behind the production, put out a statement saying,0.94
00:09:05.360Following the announcement of our Romeo and Juliet cast, there has been a barrage of deplorable racial abuse online directed toward a member of our company.
00:09:12.200This must stop. We are working with a remarkable group of artists.
00:09:16.060We insist they are free to create work without facing online harassment.
00:09:19.960Jamie Lloyd, the director of the company, said that it would continue to support and protect everyone at our company at all costs.
00:09:26.160Any abuse will not be tolerated and will be reported.
00:09:29.020Bullying and harassment have no place online in our industry or in our wider communities.
00:09:35.760Like something that I say again and again on this show is that when somebody is being targeted in this way, you need to show clear, unambiguous support.
00:09:44.860You need to have a plan in place for what you will do. And you need to make sure that there is no confusion about where you stand and how you are supporting the person targeted.
00:09:53.940The fact that the Jamie Lloyd Company didn't ignore it, spoke to spoke to what was happening right away in very clear terms.
00:10:01.200This is how I think that organizations and industries should be reacting when somebody is somebody is targeted in this way.0.76
00:10:08.600Luckily, if there is one thing that black women are going to do, it is support each other.
00:10:12.800more than 800 predominantly Black women and non-binary actors signed on to an open letter
00:10:18.000in solidarity with Francesca. The letter was organized by Enola Holmes actor Susan Wacoma
00:10:23.480and writer Somalia Naniye-Seaton. And the letter really has two kind of important bits.
00:10:29.180One, just generally supporting Francesca, and two, pointing out that this kind of thing,
00:10:34.780these kind of racist attacks and harassment, happened to Black performers all the time.
00:11:09.380of a play to ignite such twisted, ugly abuse is truly embarrassing for those so empty and barren
00:11:15.380in their own lives that they must meddle in hateful abuse. Also, that is a read. Somebody
00:11:23.080had time when they wrote this letter. So they really drill in on one of my sticking points,
00:11:27.720that in a lot of cases, when this kind of thing happens, the people in charge just kind of do
00:11:31.660nothing. They don't put out a statement. They maybe hope it'll blow over. Maybe they're privately
00:11:36.600supporting the person targeted but like they're not communicating that to the public and that is
00:11:40.800that doesn't work the letter reads too many times theater companies broadcasters producers and
00:11:47.020streamers have failed to offer any help or support when their black artists face racist or
00:11:52.020misogynistic abuse reporting is too often left on the shoulders of the abused who are then expected
00:11:57.300to promote said show which i think is also like a really good point like it is a racism and sexism
00:12:02.880issue, to be sure, like an identity issue, but it's also just like a workplace equity issue,
00:12:07.580right? Like she is meant to promote this project on social media that she is a part of, which will
00:12:12.100only lead to more of the abuse that she is already shouldering. And so it's not an equitable
00:12:16.880situation if like, yeah, you're going to be in this play, you need to promote this play on social
00:12:21.780media. But in order to do that, you just have to individually shoulder this kind of unacceptable
00:12:27.220racist and sexist harassment that other people in your production are not having to deal with.
00:12:31.920it's not equitable. Yeah. And not just shoulder that, you know, it's not just abuse, but it's
00:12:38.740coordinated abuse, right? Like people across the internet coordinating to target one particular
00:12:46.540performer. Uh, and like, of course that's going to be like too much for one person to take on.
00:12:53.860Of course, people, you know, facing that sort of vast network of international bigots, uh,
00:13:00.840need some institutional support to help hold them up. Yes, the letter really speaks to that
00:13:07.740in a beautiful way. They write, we want to send a clear message to Francesca and all Black women
00:13:12.540performers who face this kind of abuse. We see you. We see the art you managed to produce with
00:13:17.960not only the pressures that your white colleagues face, but with the added traumatic hurdle of
00:13:22.480misogynoir. We are so excited to watch you shine. So we should talk about what's going on here.
00:13:28.700One is that I've seen a lot of people say like, oh, well, I'm not, I don't have a problem with0.81
00:13:33.680her that she's Black. I have a problem with her is that she's not beautiful. Juliet is meant to1.00
00:13:38.520be beautiful. She's meant to be beautiful enough to have, you know, Romeo go against his family
00:13:44.200to be with her. I'm not saying it's a problem because she's a Black woman. I'm saying it's0.98
00:13:48.260a problem because she's not beautiful. So I think there's like a really specific racially coded0.98
00:13:53.560thing happening here that I can tell you quite a bit about as a black woman with dark skin,
00:13:58.800you know, people saying that, oh, well, she's, it's that she's not attractive and Juliet should0.51
00:14:02.840be attractive. Saying that it's not a race issue, it's an attractiveness issue. It can be such a
00:14:08.640deeply coded, like racially coded claim, especially when you're talking about a darker skin black1.00
00:14:14.120woman with like thick hair. And, you know, like, like, I just have heard that my whole life that1.00
00:14:19.920it's like, oh, well, it's not a race thing. It's just that you're not pretty because you're a1.00
00:14:22.740black woman. It's like, well, that does sound like a race thing to me. Yeah. And I mean,1.00
00:14:26.560there are few things more subjective than beauty. Yes. And it's like the fact that these people
00:14:33.240could say like, oh, I'm just talking about beauty standards. The fact that they could
00:14:38.560try to conveniently divorce all of that from race, from the fact that we live in a white
00:14:43.280supremacist society, you know, Eurocentric beauty standards, like all of that. It's like,
00:14:48.380I don't know. It's like playing in my face. Like, it's very clear what's going on,
00:14:51.740But they don't want to just say what's going on. So they're like, oh, no, no, no, it's not about race. I just don't believe that anybody would ever find a black woman attractive.
00:14:57.520Yeah, and I truly wonder how many of them are saying it's about beauty as an intentional way to hide the racism that they know that they have within them versus how many are just so un-self-critical and unreflective that they don't see what's going on in their own head.0.99
00:15:22.120Like, that almost is like sadder, I think, for somebody to live such an uncritical life that they would not realize that. Right. I don't know. Maybe that's a dumb point.
00:15:35.660No, I don't think it's a dumb point. So I spent a lot of time digging into what people who are behind this harassment are saying. And I think that you're right. It's clear to me that these are not people who are thinking very deeply about the things that they're saying, the things that they are claiming to feel about this person and why they're making such a big deal of it.0.97
00:15:57.380I don't think that they're really analyzing that too deeply. And so I bet these people do think it's not about race and that like spending a lot of energy and time to talk about whether or not they think this Black woman, Juliet, is pretty enough for a production that they probably would never see is normal behavior.
00:16:17.260I don't think that they're looking at their behavior in any kind of like critical lens.
00:16:20.640Yeah. Because you bring up another good point. Why do they care? How many of these people are going to travel to London's West End to take in this Shakespeare production?
00:16:32.620Okay, so I have been racking my brain trying to figure this out and figure out, like, what's going on with this. And I think something really particular is happening here. So anybody listening who is into theater, particularly Shakespeare, y'all know that diverse casting, and I'm talking diverse with regard to race and gender, is pretty common in Shakespeare productions.
00:16:56.300Like, you could see every iteration of race and gender identity in Shakespeare plays if you wanted.
00:17:02.620Like, diverse casting has been a thing for a while, for generations when it comes to Shakespeare, right?
00:17:07.660But I think that because people are hearing that Tom Holland is in this particular production, they are thinking, like, oh, Tom Holland, he is a movie star, right?
00:17:19.180Like, he was Spider-Man in six Marvel Cinematic Universe superhero movies.
00:17:23.520So I think that they think this is a movie that is going to be on in the theaters, right? I think that they see Tom Holland, Romeo and Juliet, they are making a Romeo and Juliet movie. They do not realize that this is a theatrical production wherein diverse casting is like commonplace and has been for a really long time.
00:17:41.640They think it's a film. And so they're like, oh, it's just it's just a woke Romeo and Juliet, you know, just like all the other times where these kinds of people are like, oh, superhero movies have gotten so woke.
00:17:53.020They've ruined superhero movies with their diverse casting and their women and their people of color. Right.0.98
00:17:58.320So I think that's what they think is going on, because that's the only frame of reference they have.1.00
00:18:03.920Let's just cut the shit. These people don't know anything about theater like that is like very clear to me.0.99
00:18:08.480These are not people who go to the theater. These are not people who have any frame of reference for what is or is not commonplace in theater. They just don't know, right? So they're not only racist and sexist, but they're also Philistines.
00:18:19.560Like when I was researching this, I saw this very angry post that was like performing pretty well in the Jordan Peterson subreddit.0.92
00:18:29.360The post reads, why do we let woke moralists steal our classic stories of the Western tradition?0.98
00:18:35.920We have no way to know if this black person was included for a reason besides capitulating to the wokes and virtue signaling.0.70
00:18:43.000which I will pause there because Romeo and Juliet is a play about two warring families who have0.99
00:18:50.800deep divisions. Like, you really can't think of another reason why you might cast a Black person1.00
00:18:56.020in a role about a production about deep divisions. You can't think of any reason why that might make0.90
00:19:01.740narrative sense within the play, other than just, like, virtue signaling and being woke.
00:19:07.640Well, and the statement, like, we have no way to know if this Black person was included for a0.93
00:19:12.300reason besides capitulating like every casting decision needs to be like super justified like
00:19:20.220what what do you mean you have no way to know like what business is it of yours well he closes that
00:19:27.000comment with this is a story which has defined romantic love for generations and now will be
00:19:33.000just another example of dun dun dun anti-white racism like what are you talking about yeah1.00
00:19:40.160how is an interracial couple falling in love anti-white racism no it's just it's so stupid1.00
00:19:48.260like trying to like logically pick apart the internet writings of an imbecile1.00
00:19:56.000yeah i mean i i completely agree and i don't know how these people would feel about the fact that0.98
00:20:06.080in Shakespeare's day, the characters that are women would probably be played by men in drag.
00:20:12.400I'm curious how that hits them. Yeah, right. This is like, what does he say? Like the classic
00:20:19.240story of the Western tradition. Yeah. It was like two dudes making out on stage. Is that what he
00:20:24.060wants to see? Something tells me he wouldn't appreciate that either. So the top comment on
00:20:31.000that Jordan Peterson Reddit thread is, wow, looks like another box office bust. Kind of a reference
00:20:38.900to that idea of go woke, go broke, that when Hollywood makes movies that feature diverse
00:20:43.820cast, that they're going woke and that people aren't going to support that. Now, nevermind that
00:20:48.440this particular production of Romeo and Juliet actually sold out within hours. But again, it is
00:20:54.960not a movie like another box office bust what are you talking about these people don't even know
00:21:00.980what they're mad about no they're just what are they mad about right and like like clearly they're
00:21:07.120mad about something how sad that they have to direct it at this like young woman right like
00:21:13.260can't they find anything more productive to direct that childlike rage at
00:21:17.960i will say this though like and i i don't want to make it sound like i'm speculating on celebrities
00:21:25.340because that's not what i like to do but in the fact that so many other actors mostly black women
00:21:33.340actors and non-binary act black actors are speaking up for francesca in that open letter
00:21:38.920i'm a little bit surprised that we have not heard tom holland speaking up for for her you know they
00:21:44.960are co-stars. He is the Romeo to her Juliet. It's entirely possible that maybe he's supporting her
00:21:51.360privately, which would be nice. But again, I do think that loud, clear public support is the only
00:21:59.820thing that works in situations like these, right? And I think especially for somebody like Tom
00:22:04.700Holland, who is the face of this big Marvel Cinematic Universe Spider-Man franchise, you know,
00:22:10.720So certainly like a battlefield for, you know, people who get angry about seeing black people or women or people of color in their movies.
00:22:21.420I think having somebody like Tom Holland be like, no, you know, this kind of racist, sexist abuse will not be tolerated.
00:22:28.200You're not going to do this in our name.
00:22:30.040You're not going to like we don't want to see this as creatives and as storytellers and we don't like it.
00:22:33.840I think that would go a long way toward creating the conditions where this kind of thing would not be commonplace.
00:22:39.420And I guess I say that to say that I don't think it should just be on the other Black actors, like the Black actors who organized that letter to support Francesca.
00:22:48.880I think that's great, but it shouldn't just be on them to create a working environment free from this kind of abuse.
00:22:55.180Everybody should want a workplace where people can just do the jobs that they are hired to do without being harassed for it, right?
00:23:01.140That benefits everybody, not just people of color, not just traditionally marginalized people.
00:23:05.600I'm sure Tom Holland wants a kind of working environment where that kind of thing is not commonplace. Who wouldn't? And I just think it's just another unfair, unpaid burden that black women actors are being made to shoulder to get us there, right? Like this is not a system that we created. This is not a system that is benefiting us. However, it is like seems to be on us to be doing the work to fix that system and to get us to a place where this kind of abuse is not commonplace.
00:23:31.980And yeah, I just, I would like, it's like when you are being targeted or harassed at work, that is already a, so you have to do your job, then you have to shoulder this abuse, and then you have to like be the one that's also doing all the organizing to create the conditions to not have that abuse be commonplace.
00:23:49.460It's too much. And I just think that for somebody like Tom Holland, who certainly has a lot of privilege as a white male superhero actor, I think he could spend a little bit of that privilege getting us to a better system a little bit.
00:24:06.200Not to mention the fact that he is in an interracial relationship. He's in a relationship with Zendaya, somebody who I really like because she is really open about the fact that, you know, as a lighter skinned black woman with like long hair, the kind of privilege that comes along with.
00:24:21.320And so he's in a relationship with somebody who intentionally does a lot of public speaking about the very things that Francesca is dealing with.
00:24:29.240And yeah, I just think that we, I wouldn't mind hearing from him.
00:25:35.780This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.
00:25:48.240I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having.
00:25:55.360I'm going to have to look up this story.
00:25:58.480From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.
00:26:04.900It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:26:12.800Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:26:21.960Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:29:56.860So we'll say something else is that this is like explicitly a money-making enterprise wherein men feel like they are like turning the tables on women who make adult content.
00:30:07.280Like there's a real disdain that these men feel for women who sex workers or women who make adult content like that is very clear. And I think that comments make very clear that like, this is a thing where men feel like women have been exercising economic agency over their own content over their own bodies over their sexuality, and they want to like turn the tables on them.
00:30:31.400Like in one of those YouTube instructional videos, the comments make clear that the viewers of that content think that this is like a big development for men on the Internet.
00:30:41.080One comment says, can finally take all the simps money while being a male.
00:34:24.320Instagram announced that they are testing out
00:34:25.940tools to detect when somebody is sending a nude image
00:34:28.860and having that image be blurred out in your DMs
00:34:32.160where you would have to click a button to say like,
00:34:34.620okay, I want to see this image. This feature is going to be automatic for Instagram users who
00:34:39.540are under 18, but everybody on Instagram is going to be prompted to turn that feature on in the
00:34:44.280coming weeks. So according to Instagram, it will use on-device machine learning to detect nudes
00:34:49.640and is aimed at stopping sextortion schemes that target teenagers. When you try to send a nude,
00:34:55.060you'll get a warning that says, take care when sharing sensitive photos. The photo is blurred
00:34:59.600out because nudity protection is on. Others can screenshot or forward your photos without you
00:35:04.800knowing. You can unsend a photo if you change your mind, but there's a chance others have already
00:35:09.080seen it. I don't have much to say about this. I mean, I do know that Instagram, they really have
00:35:15.140pioneered like nipple detection software. Like they really are quite good at knowing when there
00:35:21.960is nudity present or even like the suggestion of nudity present in images. I just, I kind of,
00:35:27.820And one of the reasons I'm having trouble with this announcement is that it just seems to, I just wish that Instagram was offering something better than like their nudity detection software.
00:35:41.920Like, I guess it's better than nothing, but I've seen Instagram really default to like quick fixes to signal that they're doing something, even if those quick fixes like really don't solve the problem.
00:35:51.720And I just have been through this a lot with Instagram and I can't help but wonder if they're like, oh, yeah, we're going to get a ton of good press on this like one small feature and then we can all move on.
00:36:01.080You know, we talked about that horrifying Wall Street Journal report about how Instagram is really enabling pedophiles by allowing pedophiles to subscribe to the Instagram accounts of children using the loophole that those accounts are like parent run accounts.
00:36:22.200And so you are not, as an adult, allowed to use Instagram's subscribe feature where you pay money to get exclusive content.
00:36:29.140You can't subscribe to a child as an adult, which makes perfect sense. But the loophole is that if that is a parent run account, adults can subscribe to the accounts of children. And so that whole report was kind of a bombshell about how much that is enabling pedophiles to get direct access to young people, which is disgusting.
00:36:47.040And so I just think that Instagram here is like just counting on everybody reporting this and being like, oh, it looks like they're really taking it seriously without actually demonstrating that it's going to meaningfully address the problems.
00:37:00.220I agree. It seems like a fine, good feature to have. It's hard to imagine that this is really going to put a meaningful curve on the sort of sextortion schemes that you talked about earlier when you set up the story, because there's a lot of other apps out there that people could easily switch over into.
00:37:26.200And if somebody is running a long con on a teenager, you know, talking to them over days, maybe weeks, maybe months, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to think that they would just suggest let's move to a different app.
00:37:43.820Let's go to WhatsApp. Let's use text message. Send me an email, like whatever. Pretty easy workarounds.
00:37:49.360Uh, so I think you're right that this is more like this protects Instagram and meta more than I think it's going to protect the actual kids. Uh, but like, it's not a harmful feature. What it really reinforces though, is how sophisticated meta and other tech platforms can be when they want to, in terms of identifying harmful content.
00:38:16.160And, you know, so there's so many other areas, like you talked about, the people subscribing to exclusive kids content via the mommy blogger account.
00:38:30.880You know, there's racist content, really like a lot of harmful content out there.
00:38:38.680Setting aside like harmful political content, like insurrectionist type content, QAnon stuff.
00:38:45.480There's so much harmful content out there, and this kind of policy here, this technology to detect nudes, really reveals that all of that could be detected and dealt with if the platforms wanted to.
00:39:06.340right? It reinforces the extent to which failing to take action on those other types of harmful
00:39:12.680content is a choice, not some sort of technical limitation. I completely agree.
00:39:21.200So speaking of meta and political content, we told you all a while back about meta deciding
00:39:26.460to deprioritize content related to political and social issues on threads and Instagram.
00:39:31.080I have just anecdotally definitely seen this happening and felt the impact on my own feed
00:48:19.560that marginalizes people who are already marginalized
00:48:22.620and they get to make money off of it, right?
00:48:24.440Going back to that Francesca Romeo and Juliet story, I didn't decide that my existence as a Black woman is political. Other people did. And so telling me that I can't then talk about that and that if I do, I'm going to be deprioritized, I don't accept that. I don't think that we should be relying on these wealthy, white, straight, cis tech leaders and billionaires to define whose experiences count as politics and whose don't.
00:48:47.620Yeah, I sometimes I like to just like close my eyes and imagine a world like an alternate parallel universe where I don't know, maybe Mark Zuckerberg got like hit on the head or maybe he took some LSD and had a revelation or something and decided to like radically change what he's doing.
00:49:09.380And instead of, like, dumping $46 billion into the metaverse, which, like, burned that money up, what if he had taken, like, a fraction of that and put it towards, like, research and innovating in a way to, like, increase literacy and connection and compassion among their users, right?
00:51:08.560It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.
00:51:16.460Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.
00:51:25.640Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:51:41.740So I do have a little bit of news kind of on that front, which is that lawmakers unveiled
00:51:46.440a new proposal that would, for the first time, give consumers broad rights to control how
00:51:51.240tech companies like Meta and TikTok and Google use their personal data.
00:51:55.540I say this a lot, but surprisingly, here in the United States, we do not have any real
00:51:59.360data privacy protections here, which, again, every time I say it blows my mind.
00:52:03.020But if this proposal succeeds, it could establish something akin to the European Union's
00:52:08.260landmark privacy law known as the General Data Protection Regulation or the GDPR and kind of
00:52:13.620attempt to curb this like totally unregulated wild, wild west that we have in the United States
00:52:19.780where all of our personal data is just for sale by the highest bidder. Whoever wants to use it
00:52:24.100to make money, that's the situation. And so this could bring in some of that if passed.
00:52:30.100Thank God. It's wild that it's 2024 and we're just getting around to this in this country now. It is completely banana pants that we do not have any laws protecting our data privacy.
00:52:47.440Yeah, I mean, I was just reading about how the FCC just, I think, yesterday passed a law that internet service providers have to give the same way that when you buy a box of cereal, it has the nutritional label that tells you what's in it and all the different things that are in it.
00:53:04.620internet service providers will now be forced by law to clearly include a breakdown of the
00:53:12.280broadband facts that you're paying for. So like the monthly price of your internet, you know,
00:53:16.900the additional charges, all of that. And yet they have to clearly label this both online and at
00:53:23.100physical stores. It looks almost exactly like a nutritional label that you would find on a box
00:53:27.000of cereal. And what I was so struck by by that story is that, first of all, the fact that we
00:53:32.280there was nothing requiring that kind of clarity to consumers to begin with. And the fact that
00:53:37.380internet service providers like Comcast really fought this. They were like, no, we shouldn't
00:53:41.760have to do this. And it just really struck me of like, y'all just want to scam. Y'all just want to
00:53:47.460take people for a ride. You just want to bait and switch. And you want the ability to do that,
00:53:51.860to be protected and enshrined by law, your ability to scam and lie to people. And so I remember when
00:53:57.240I moved into a new apartment, signing up for Comcast, and they were giving me like a deal on
00:54:01.360internet and being like, okay, so is this deal going to be forever? Or is this an introductory
00:54:07.320rate and then it's going to go up? And they were like, oh, it's the deal forever, the deal forever,
00:54:11.300deal forever. I was like, are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? They were like, oh yeah,
00:54:14.100your price will never go up. Well, that was a lie because my price did go up. And then they were
00:54:18.060like, oh, well, it was this or that. We had to add fees. And that's like, people deserve clarity.
00:54:24.700Like it should be a given that people are knowing what they are being asked to pay for. Like this
00:54:29.720idea that you should just be able to obscure that and it's fine and not only is it fine but like
00:54:33.660it is your right as a corporation i don't know i just the fact that we are finally now just getting
00:54:39.480around to being like oh wait maybe consumers do deserve some protections maybe it shouldn't just0.91
00:54:44.400be like fuck you pay me and i can lie to your face like maybe that's not a helpful dynamic for0.98
00:54:50.780anybody i love how raw you are about this comcast bill like a decade ago that yeah you're still like1.00
00:54:58.740grinding this axe and we're like we finally have a bill to protect privacy like you know what the
00:55:04.460real like thing is though mike i was in grad school i had no money when that bill increased
00:55:11.820i mean i i asked in every which way is my bill going to get going to increase and they ensured
00:55:18.960me no i even had my dad who was so good on the phone dealing with like sales people and like
00:55:24.640that kind of thing. I called him while he was in the room to coach me through what to ask to make
00:55:29.440sure because I was like, I really cannot afford if my bill goes up. And when my bill went up,
00:55:33.080yeah, I was heated. I was mad. I'm still mad 10 years later. I'll admit it. I have an ax to pick
00:55:39.200with Comcast. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we're going to go down this path. I remember years ago when I
00:55:45.920lived in Madison, when I was going to grad school there, there were a couple internet service
00:55:49.320providers in town and i think every year i would like switch from one to the other so i could
00:55:54.980get some kind of promotional deal what a stupid way to like manage one's internet right and it
00:56:02.160just especially given how central the internet is to so many functions of day-to-day life like0.92
00:56:10.300we use it to communicate we use it to work we use it for entertainment we use it to get information
00:56:15.980about the world so that we can be civic participants. It's so absolutely critical
00:56:22.660to everything we do. And that just makes it even more mind-blowing that we still have no
00:56:31.180federal laws protecting our privacy when we are on the internet.
00:56:37.280Yes, access to the internet. The UN says it's a human right, but it's like, to go through it,
00:56:41.860I have to deal with an internet service provider that is allowed to lie to me and scam me and
00:56:45.820disappoint me? I don't think so. So this last thing I wanted to talk about, it's not really
00:56:50.100news, but it's something that I find deeply interesting that I just wanted to share with
00:56:54.100all of you. So in our Andrew Huberman two-part episode, which by the way, thanks to all of y'all
00:56:58.680for listening. We have gotten such interesting feedback from that episode. Thank you for going
00:57:02.660down that rabbit hole with me because it was certainly a rabbit hole if I want it to go down.
00:57:06.240So thank you for letting me do that. But I ended that episode talking about how I really feel like
00:57:12.140podcasting is this tricky space where listeners really trust podcasters and how podcasts for
00:57:18.140whatever reason kind of automatically convey a certain level of authority. I've talked about
00:57:23.240it on the podcast before, but I have noticed these TikTok videos where people look like they
00:57:28.560are recording a podcast in a podcast studio. There's a microphone in front of them. They've
00:57:33.260got like the neon sign behind them. But I know, I can tell that that mic is not turned on. And in
00:57:39.700some cases, it's not even plugged into anything. It's just like a prop that is in front of them,
00:57:43.520right? I've seen that where I'm like, the way this setup doesn't make any sense.
00:57:49.840Because when I record my podcast, it looks like you can just tell like there are wires everywhere.
00:57:55.020Your microphone is plugged into something that is recording. It's not just sitting
00:57:58.320wirelessly in front of you. Like, where's the audio that you're uploading going to, you know?
00:58:02.940Well, my suspicions have been confirmed by this piece in Bloomberg,
00:58:06.660breaking down the cottage industry of hired actors who are, you know, selling their services
00:58:13.200on websites like Fiverr, who take money to make fake podcasts as user generated content style
00:58:19.620advertising. They even have an upsell where they will make a fake podcast in front of one of those
00:58:25.060glowing neon signs to make it look like a real podcast. So in the piece, they talked to this guy
00:58:30.720named Wolf, who is like always in these TikToks that make it look like he is podcasting, wherein
00:58:35.800And he's like talking up a product, casually mentioning its benefits and why he loves it.
00:58:40.520Maybe you'll think this podcast feels slightly excessive in its enthusiasm for a particular
00:58:44.760thing, but TikTok's content onslaught doesn't leave much time for questioning.
00:58:49.500The takeaway is here's a passionate person speaking authoritatively on a podcast.
00:58:54.160In reality, these clips are not coming from podcasts.
00:58:56.920In fact, Wolf is being paid $195 for each of these one minute advertisements designed
01:01:13.820And it turns out this woman, just as a content creator who was making this as a way to promote her OnlyFans, which I don't have any kind of problem with.0.86
01:01:22.120But Ryan connects this to a darker trend in kind of the overlap of podcasting and marketing where they have this thing that I've definitely seen where it'll be like a real podcast where part of the way that they are marketing their podcast is making these short viral clips of them interviewing is too strong, really just like humiliating a woman on the podcast.
01:01:46.300The podcast Whatever is really known for this, and Fresh and Fit was really known for this, where they would make these very short videos of them humiliating a woman who has gone on the podcast, and then that video would go viral.
01:02:00.400He writes, there's an entire universe of post-Andrew Tate sexuality and relationship podcasts that put young women in front of microphones, ask them outrageous questions, and turn it into viral clips, and then let audiences tear them apart.
01:02:12.840Some of these podcasts even have like casting calls on their websites to find new guests.
01:02:39.980It was just kind of like a sort of weird, funny story until it took that dark turn at the end.
01:02:46.440I think that the fact that podcasters like Fresh and Fit and Andrew Tate, that they know that this kind of thing does go viral on social media, it just really is about the fact that misogyny and misogynoir and all of that will always find a welcome home on the Internet.
01:03:03.220Like, I think this is not a bug. It's a feature of the internet landscape that we have where a video where a man in front of a microphone is humiliating a woman that will always find an audience. And I think it is, I wanted to talk about this as sort of like a funny, weird thing, but it does, it does connect back to that very real dynamic where massage noir and massage knee will always be profitable online, which is why we need to have a better internet landscape that doesn't allow for that.
01:03:31.720Yeah, if only Meta would start excluding that kind of content