00:00:00.000hey y'all joe here and you are listening to under the influence
00:00:09.500quick reminder order your copy of the parisian heist today you will not regret it order one
00:00:14.440for your friends order one for your mom and for your mother-in-law because it's a really great
00:00:17.880way to suck up okay i really don't want to keep doing podcasts about how to fix men i don't i
00:00:23.380don't but i do want to talk a little bit about this latest study that said a third of gen z men0.89
00:00:29.640think that a wife should obey her husband. A third also say that men should have the final say
00:00:37.000in important decisions. Now, I think a lot of you, like me, assume that Gen Z would be more0.59
00:00:43.400progressive, more egalitarian, and more evolved than the generations before them. But apparently,
00:00:49.660in a lot of ways, they're more conservative than their grandfathers. And I just really want to know
00:00:54.580what the hell is going on. Because none of this happened in a vacuum, and frankly, a lot of it
00:00:58.800happened online. So I want to bring on a Gen Z woman who pretty much just lives online, who lives0.90
00:01:04.320in the digital world, to try to explain Gen Z men to me. My guest is Haley Lickstein, and she's
00:01:09.680someone who really understands how this ecosystem works. She's a political and lifestyle creator,
00:01:14.780a strategist, and an activist who's built a following by translating politics into culture.0.86
00:01:20.540And she does it in a way that actually lands with Gen Z audiences instead of just, you know,0.99
00:01:24.460screaming into the void and throwing spaghetti at the walls. Her whole focus is on how ideas
00:01:30.780spread online. In addition to that, she spends a lot of time with Gen Z men because she's a Gen Z
00:01:35.820woman. And I gotta say, I mean, I say this to Haley in our conversation, I would not date again. I0.56
00:01:41.860would not be in my 20s again for freaking anything, okay? I am so happy that I was a teenager and in
00:01:48.720my 20s and even in my 30s when I was, because right now, this seems terrible. This seems,
00:01:54.820I mean, I would just, ugh, gross. Gross. Okay, so today we're going to talk about the0.79
00:01:59.740manosphere, tradwifery, birth control messaging, and once again, which I talk about all the
00:02:05.780time with Emily, why the right has been so damn effective at turning culture wars into0.95
00:02:11.440politics. But, but, but, but, I do promise there's going to be a little bit of hope at
00:02:17.100the end of this episode. Hey, Haley, how you doing? Good. How are you? Thanks so much for chatting
00:02:31.000today. Thanks for coming on. I need you to decode something with me. Yeah. A recent study by King's
00:02:38.760College in London found that 31% of Gen Z men agree that a wife should obey her husband and
00:02:45.720that 33% say a husband should have the final word on important decisions. A lot has been
00:02:50.220made of this in the media, saying that Gen Z is way more conservative than we expected
00:02:55.000them to be. As a member of Gen Z, do you think that is accurate? And if so, why is this
00:03:02.820happening? Because I think we'd always assumed that younger generations were getting more
00:03:08.040progressive, and maybe that's not the case.
00:03:10.900so millennial men are what we would say by the data the most progressive generation of men
00:03:18.780you know what i think is really alarming or interesting about that data is that gen z men
00:03:24.180are as conservative if not more conservative as 80 year old men as two three generation ago
00:03:32.380grown men and when you look at the graph comparing them to different age ranges that is really
00:03:37.600stark and it's so shocking and it is direct result from the radicalization of
00:03:43.440young men on social media of youtube of content that they're receiving of this kind of conversation
00:03:49.940around defining masculinity and dominance and family roles and it's not surprising i don't
00:03:58.280think if you've been paying attention if you are around young men if you watch their voting
00:04:05.340patterns, that this is the pattern that happened. And I think it will be nearly impossible to
00:04:12.160reverse with this generation, but something we can hopefully course correct for the men coming
00:04:16.520after them. And do you think a lot of this had to do with the manosphere, with YouTube, and with
00:04:23.700being indoctrinated into these ideas from an early age? A hundred percent. And I think people forget
00:04:30.040it was a perfect storm. So the young men that are being talked about in this report are the age
00:04:37.920where they were coming of age 14, 15, 16 during the pandemic lockdown. They were at home all day.
00:04:46.980Oftentimes their parents are working from home. They do not have the ability to kind of watch
00:04:53.140what they're doing all day. They are losing out on all the social interactions and community
00:04:57.740component that is really important to self-growth. You know, the sports, the after-school clubs,
00:05:04.680the just being with other people in person, the proms, graduations, and their entire worldview
00:05:11.640was being formed via the internet and social media for years, depending on where you lived.
00:05:19.100And there was not an effort to make sure that people didn't fall down this rabbit hole at that
00:05:25.680time and so it really is was like a perfect storm of just having 10 hours a day more than that for
00:05:33.300a lot of people to be consuming content and then not having any conversations with people in person
00:05:38.260that might dispute what you're you know watching like i'll have friends over and we'll say oh did
00:05:44.780you watch this youtube video or listen to this podcast and we'll kind of in a book clubby way
00:05:49.920talk about it or push against each other's opinions um my younger sister she's this age
00:05:55.780exactly she's in college right now and her entire high school experience was basically virtual and
00:06:01.980she didn't have anyone to kind of press her on her ideas that were forming and it's the same
00:06:09.020thing for these young men that were forming via the internet and the people they were exposed to
00:06:13.820I agree with you that I think there was so much isolation so such a lack of community
00:06:23.500how do we move forward from here to try to course correct I mean obviously we can be supporting
00:06:31.460cultural influencers and political influencers but I would say just you know trying to impact
00:06:38.540individuals at large and making sure that people are in community now and trying to combat this
00:06:46.440male loneliness epidemic. And it does remain shocking to me that, you know, the reaction to
00:06:54.240so much of this and so much of this isolation was essentially to make people believe that we should
00:06:59.960go back to a false nostalgia of the 1950s. I'm a hopeaholic, so I always think that there's hope
00:07:06.280to be had but when it does seem crazy especially as women that there was this push to be nostalgic0.88
00:07:15.200or it's not even nostalgia but to repaint a few generations ago as a better time and i want to be
00:07:21.420really clear that that is not something that was a unique online experience for young men
00:07:25.620we are seeing young women become much more conservative we're seeing the same kind of
00:07:33.020low role micro dosing content that impacted men hit women right now and start to really work when
00:07:42.000it comes to, you know, the trad wife messaging happening on the Internet. I have so many
00:07:48.080questions for you about influencing, about political influencing, about how we can make
00:07:56.040sure, and by we, I mean, you know, people who truly care about progressive ideals, how can we
00:08:04.340make sure to capture Gen Z's attention when it truly feels like the conservative social media
00:08:11.920sphere has been doing a much better job of winning this attention economy? I mean, is that a fair
00:08:20.500statement right now? It's definitely a fair statement. I would say it's not so much that I
00:08:25.820think they're doing a much better job as much as I think they've been doing this job for much
00:08:29.360longer. That they paid attention and invested in the technologies and new mediums and recognized
00:08:37.520where young people were much earlier on when it came to investment. And so not only do I think
00:08:43.780they have much more established talent, they have been investing in talent for a long time. So we're
00:08:48.840playing catch up. Right. We are playing catch up. And so what do we need to be doing to truly be on
00:08:55.760the offense here instead of on the defense? Yeah, it's a great question. And I think there's two
00:09:03.300answers. One is investing in talent pipelines that we know we're not going to see returns in
00:09:09.640right away. And I do think that that's something that is hard for a lot of people to
00:09:14.900live with and process is we have to invest early. We have to give people the tools they need and let
00:09:21.380them grow but we also need to recognize that there are two lanes and the same people should
00:09:27.840not be doing the same things that the culture forward creators are not breaking news they're
00:09:32.840not interviewing members really they're not um you know being political or news creators they
00:09:41.300are living in that culture space and integrating the messaging really well and when it's important
00:09:46.440And from those culture creators, even just a did you vote today message goes a really far way. And we see Republican messaging having seeded a lot of their platforms into their cultural creators very slowly. It's a very light and it takes a long runway.
00:10:07.900And then we also need to be investing in the political creators who are meeting young people where they're at and breaking down news and information in a way that is accessible to young people.
00:10:18.820And there can be overlap, but we can't ask everyone to do the same thing and we can't expect culture creators to become political news creators.
00:10:26.980Rather, we have to be supporting them and figuring out how to kind of microdose the messaging that's important to them.
00:10:32.500Well, and I think that the right has been very good at this culture war attitude in terms of supporting cultural influencers and cultural mediums and then letting the messaging, the more conservative messaging trickle through.
00:10:50.180I think Evie was obviously a really great example of that. You know, here's 10 lacy shorts to wear for summer and also why you should get off the birth control pill.
00:10:59.700And I don't see an equivalent of that on the left.
00:11:14.740So things like Glamour, things like Cosmo, Team Vogue, those media entities at some point1.00
00:11:22.020were the dominant way women were consuming information.0.91
00:11:27.380And they were very progressive or left leaning and are to this day, but they're not as as red or as tall.
00:11:35.180I just I would argue they're not as relevant anymore.0.87
00:11:37.160Yeah, 100 percent. And I think Evie and the conservator were and organizations or like media entities like that were a reaction to the fact that the left dominated print progressive like progressive dominated print media for women.
00:11:53.700And it's a new era. And they had the opportunity to dominate. And instead of us reinventing the wheel or doing something new, we took that same media and tried to put them on socials and didn't create something that is social first, culture first, that breaks through for a new space.0.94
00:12:13.780but when we talk about where to find hope i do think that this past election woke a lot of people
00:12:19.860up that there's investments happening both um in media in new talent there's conversations being
00:12:26.780happened at happening at home i think parents are more aware of the like i don't want to say the
00:12:33.100dangers of youtube in any way but of the content that is being served to children i think or their
00:12:38.960children i think that that was something that honestly like the media literacy gap that continues
00:12:44.080to exist but really at that time was hyper apparent has been broken down a bit and you can hope that
00:12:55.040with the release of all these studies with the new manosphere documentary that parents teachers
00:13:00.000um community members are going to start having the conversations they need to have with young people
00:13:05.340and and help course correct the direction that we're going in
00:13:08.960And these beliefs, this belief system held by men has consequences when it comes to their social life, their dating life. And that will play out, too, in hopefully a way where it helps them realize this is a wildly unpopular view to hold.
00:13:23.920yeah i mean i just i can't imagine dating now i truly i wouldn't i don't think i'd want to be
00:13:32.440a young person now i'm quite happy that i got to live out my college and post-college experience
00:13:39.560in the 90s and 2000s uh because it just seems and to be honest at the time it's like so much
00:13:47.940seemed terrible in the world but now i'm like oh my gosh we had so much freedom everyone everyone
00:13:53.020was so cool. And it does seem hard to be to be a young person right now. I want to take a quick
00:14:01.080break. And when we get back, can you talk to me a little bit about the influencers
00:14:06.100on the more progressive side of the spectrum who you think are doing this well? Absolutely.
00:14:12.320okay we are back so talk to me about the influencers on the progressive side of the
00:14:26.140spectrum who you think are doing this well because I will tell you when I go out and I
00:14:31.700talk to young people especially at my book events for a lot of my books that are you know they are
00:14:37.360just they're delightful delightful romps they're great reads but they have very strong underlying
00:14:44.360progressive progressive and feminist themes i hear from young women that say well all of you
00:14:49.560feminists your age are are angry you did it wrong you're all pissed off all the time you're all
00:14:55.100you're only preaching at me and to me who is actually getting through to the generations0.92
00:15:01.840below me yeah well I think there are those two buckets that we talked about so when it comes to
00:15:09.020the cultural side um Eli Rallo is someone who jumps out at me right away she is that girl she
00:15:15.940has million plus followers um she is very culture forward she just moderated Demi Lovato's book talk
00:15:24.600she's getting married this year and super in love and shares that whole journey she uh you know it's
00:15:31.780just very fun. And I would say 90% of her content is just fun girl content, but she is very smart
00:15:39.720and uses her platform in a really important way. She makes videos about birth control. She just
00:15:46.780posted one yesterday. She makes videos during like her wedding planning process about name
00:15:52.780change and the way that those things, you know, institutionally play out. She talks about women's
00:15:59.240finances and she always talks about voting she is both she's like based in both texas and new york
00:16:06.000and talks about the elections and where you get your election information but it's so small and
00:16:12.020perfectly messaged in her content in a way that feels really true to her there are a bunch of
00:16:16.640influencers like that who i think do it a really good job um howie kate and jazz new york they are
00:16:24.020kind of like a duo and they do an amazing job i think from a culture side clark people does an
00:16:30.340amazing job and we're starting to see some bigger cultural names start to talk more and i do think
00:16:36.120it's a really interesting like tide is turning in that way where it used to be so taboo for
00:16:41.640cultural creators to talk about politics it was something that they just did not do and now i feel
00:16:48.140like it's something they're being kind of demanded or asked to do because consumer their consumers
00:16:54.360if you think about it that's like their audience is their consumer wants to know where they lie
00:17:00.740they want to know that they're supporting someone that their values aligned with and i find it
00:17:04.320really interesting because i'm like going on a little tangent here but there's so much data that
00:17:08.900supports that gen z is willing to spend more money to pay for a product from a company that
00:17:14.060aligns with their values then um buy it somewhere cheaper and we're seeing that kind of be put into
00:17:21.620the creator space where they're sort of demanding to understand where their fault their creators
00:17:26.180lie um other cultural people that i think do really well we're seeing brianna chicken fry
00:17:31.700um she was on barstool she kind of left barstool it seemed because of political differences and
00:17:37.280is speaking out a good amount and it's very culture forward so we're we're really seeing
00:17:42.180some really cool landscape changes there and um we saw a lot of people from dancing with the stars
00:17:48.780we're seeing some people from like mormon wives and just like more mainstream creators start to
00:17:52.940talk about politics um because politics is really becoming this human it's so human rights based
00:17:58.900right now and then when it comes to like the news and politics like the news side there's so many1.00
00:18:04.020women doing a great job i don't think they're necessarily like particularly young all the names0.98
00:18:09.320that come to my mind. Right, right. Well, what's interesting to me about all the names that you1.00
00:18:13.580just said is that I am actually not served any of these people. Again, I'm not their target audience,
00:18:19.240right? But I do think it's interesting that we are living in such a world of micro celebrity right
00:18:25.300now, where these are not household names for me, but they are for so many people. I mean,
00:18:32.240I've literally never heard of these folks.
00:19:06.460And I think that is why conservative influencing, tradwife influencing did so well for so long.
00:19:14.080I think we're finally starting to see a backlash against it.0.95
00:19:18.040But the algorithm is incredibly powerful.
00:19:20.620and I don't think that we can discount that at all, you're also a creator. In addition to
00:19:27.380being a strategist, what kind of content works well for you? Like, how do you play nice with
00:19:33.060the algorithm to get the things that you want to get across to your audience actually into their
00:19:38.540feeds? Totally. So the algorithm's always changing and it's definitely a game to play,
00:19:45.880But I do think that whenever I'm able to base the conversation around something on TV or a media figure, that content performs better.
00:20:00.720That it, I don't want to say tricks the algorithm, but lets people think maybe it's not as politically charged or it's sort of a culture conversation.
00:20:09.180A good example is yesterday or this week I posted a video because Jay Shetty did a podcast on the negative effects of birth control.
00:20:19.140Oh, I didn't see this. Tell me all about this.
00:20:22.100Yes. Well, my obsession right now or just the last few years has really been about the work that is being done by the right to lay the groundwork to take away access to birth control.
00:20:33.420Oh, yeah. This is my obsession right now, too. And anytime anyone on the left is like, oh, I don't think that their social media efforts are working, I'm like, let me tell you about birth control.
00:20:41.640Yes. Birth control and like AI deepfakes to keep women out of any position of power ever again.0.85
00:20:47.260But I think when it comes to, yeah, so Jay Shetty had a doctor on his podcast to talk about the negative effects of birth control and then clicked the podcast and put on his Instagram with millions of followers a segment that just said long-term consequences of birth control, like in bold lettering, like as a highlight.0.67
00:21:11.480And I just think we're seeing it in all the different size of media right now.
00:21:28.200See, again, because there is so much media out there and everything is so fragmented right now that I don't think any of us are having the same conversations.
00:21:40.660Well, it's funny because the right is so good at having the same conversations. I know a mutual of ours. I worked with Emily recently on we saw so many right wing influencers posting the exact same sentence around birth control.
00:21:58.320and i cropped it together for a video and then worked with her she wrote about it but
00:22:03.060they're disseminating the information so far and wide and like very clear messaging that you don't
00:22:09.160have to have the same algorithm to get served the same message we found like 40 or 50 creators who
00:22:16.100posted the same one sentence reel over them about birth control being like bad for fertility or
00:22:23.260whatever it was and you only had to like those people do not have overlapping audience or maybe
00:22:29.880they have a very small overlapping audience but that is really the game that they're playing so
00:22:34.720well is you don't have to have the same algorithm to get their message where on our side it's a
00:22:41.500pure volume game you have to be following someone intentionally to get our message typically
00:22:47.000Right. Exactly. Exactly. Because I think that our messaging is often very fragmented, whereas they're like, we've got we've got five messages and we're just going to repeat them over and over again. And until they break through, the birth control is such a great example because I have talked to young women all over the country, sometimes the same ones who tell me that feminists are so angry and burnt out and pissed off all the time.
00:23:09.840and then sometimes other ones who very rationally explained to me why birth control is terrible and
00:23:16.640why they're not on it and why they use the rhythm method and why they want to drop out of college
00:23:20.460and have large families and depend on a man. The birth control messaging has really broken through.
00:23:26.300Like I've had young women tell me it will cause cancer. It will make them be attracted to gay men.
00:23:31.240It will make them be attracted to cousins. I actually have not seen anything work as well0.60
00:23:36.980as this birth control messaging. I agree. It's worked so well, but it's also been this like slow
00:23:43.640roll. And they're now taking it further, you know, talking about taking away IVF, talking about
00:23:50.700the full scope of like contraception and fertility care. It's really scary and crazy.
00:24:00.380Well, and the scary thing is that, you know, when young women are turned off of birth control,
00:24:06.520And it's your choice to go on the pill or not. You know, I was on the pill for a long time, didn't love it, but it was awesome because I didn't get pregnant by all the douchebags that I dated in my 20s and early 30s. So that was a massive win. And then I was off of it and recently went back on it for perimenopause. We should all have access to all of these things.
00:24:27.880when young women stop caring about that access they're actually voting against their best1.00
00:24:34.500interests and it makes it so much easier to start eroding other reproductive freedoms right
00:24:38.900yeah and i mean i think you know birth control is the most powerful tool we've had for economic
00:24:44.080freedom in modern history it shows that if you have access to it before 20 you're less likely
00:24:49.420to ever live in poverty when women who weren't married had access to birth control college
00:24:53.700enrollment increase dropout rates decrease like the data is so supportive of the benefits of birth
00:25:00.640control where i think also it partly falls apart is this generation in college right now or younger
00:25:09.060doesn't remember really a time where or or hasn't seen the implications of women not having access
00:25:16.640to birth control and the ways that it really put so many women into a life they didn't necessarily
00:25:24.000want. And now when you pair that with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, the reality of not
00:25:30.880having access to birth control is so stark, but not something that I think is comprehensible for
00:25:36.880a lot of young women. You know, like teen pregnancy is down so substantially. Like a lot of these
00:25:44.800things that I feel like people grew up with understanding the value of birth control is not
00:25:51.600visible anymore. Exactly. Exactly. In the same way that I think a lot of the work of feminism
00:25:58.520that has given women these freedoms is not visible anymore. And look, some of feminism0.55
00:26:06.220is flawed. I think a lot of progressive feminism has been very exclusive. You know,0.99
00:26:14.120we haven't been fully welcoming to say, hey, everybody come into our tent. Hey,
00:26:19.140we have different views on things, but let's talk about them. Let's talk about what's actually good
00:26:23.600for women, what's actually good for mothers. And I think that we can be better and I think we
00:26:27.880will be better. But I do think that there is a collective forgetting about all of the struggles
00:26:35.960that women have gone through and how much better young women's life is today because of all of
00:26:43.160the things that feminists have fought for for them i always say that feminism saved families
00:26:49.740and you know the republican figures charlie kirk used to say like the divorce rate is low as it's
00:26:58.940been in 40 years and then not credit that to feminism but because women were able to decide0.70
00:27:06.140if when with whom to have children to graduate college to get married later and make more1.00
00:27:11.300decisive decisions that weren't based on economic need or a pregnancy they were marrying out of
00:27:16.620love and not necessity and that has resulted in happier longer term marriages and families that
00:27:23.380are more intact than ever before and there is obviously things that are wrong with the fact
00:27:31.260with all the different waves of feminism and the most modern wave um you know and a lot of white0.95
00:27:38.220feminism and issues. But at its core, it has been so helpful, not just to women, but to
00:27:45.500families and the family values, quote unquote, that Republican parties claim to want so badly
00:27:54.380in this country. It's true. It's true. All right, let's take one more quick break. And when we get0.59
00:27:59.760back, I want to talk about some of the words that I would like to take back from conservatives.
00:28:25.960They are real good at just taking certain words and phrases and making them their own
00:28:33.060and making it seem like the left can't have ownership over them anymore.
00:28:37.200Things like family values, which at face value, like you just said, are truly progressive ideals.
00:28:44.960They have taken ownership of liberty, freedom.
00:28:48.060What are some ideas that the left just has to take back, just steal right back from the conservatives?
00:28:55.640OK, one that I've been really into lately, although there's truly so many, is this idea of America first.
00:29:01.940So I don't know if you've seen this, but all the like manosphere men have been making hats and T-shirts and all this stuff around being America first.
00:29:12.040Not MAGA's dead, but we're America first now.
00:29:14.480And in my mind, all of the policies that are actually putting Americans first are progressive policies.
00:29:21.180And I want to I want us to own that slogan.
00:29:28.380i want to own the american flag again a hundred percent patriotism in general patriotism
00:29:36.900patriotism freedom and liberty honestly like liberty and freedom and you know choice these
00:29:47.100are all progressive ideals it's insane to me that liberty has become a conservative tool
00:29:53.820it really has like you make an assumption when you even see somebody wearing an american flag
00:29:59.620i freak out i freak out like i'm convinced when i see someone wearing an american flag
00:30:05.460that like i am in harm's way somehow and i hate that because i do love so many of the ideals
00:30:12.760of america like i do still believe in in many ways i'm still a hopeaholic i do still believe
00:30:19.300that this crazy experiment could end up being a great thing i still believe in you know a lot
00:30:28.260of american values and i just hate that they get to have all of all of the trappings of americana
00:30:34.140i couldn't agree more patriotism as a whole and also like caring about your family and your
00:30:42.040neighbors just this idea of this this like higher holier than now idea that they of caring for
00:30:52.220people that i think that they really have somehow manufactured yeah absolutely absolutely so how do
00:31:01.540we get it how do we get it back how how can we be better at branding how how can we rebrand
00:31:06.780progressivism for the next generation because I look at my kids they are eight six and three
00:31:12.140and it's it's very funny because my six-year-old at one point was looking at my eight-year-old boy
00:31:18.520I have a boy and two girls and she goes girls rule the world and he's like you think I don't know
00:31:22.880you know who our mother is uh and so I feel okay for my kids but how do we do this on a larger
00:31:30.720scale it's hard um i think we have to build back third spaces and the importance of community and
00:31:39.120in real life spaces um i think we have to equip parents and teachers with the tools that they
00:31:47.680need to have actual real conversations about the topics that their kids are seeing online
00:31:51.660um you know and the other thing that i think is going to be increasingly important is this
00:31:58.720conversation around media literacy and you know so much of the conversation around media literacy
00:32:06.680that I see takes place is like boomers clicking on AI videos and thinking it's real but the reality
00:32:14.720is so much of the content we're consuming it's not just misinformation but it's disinformation
00:32:20.100it's very intentional or it's very politically laced and there's this assumption that people
00:32:25.440who are digitally native understand or are able to like decode or see when something is
00:32:33.100you know nefarious or just fake altogether or misleading or it doesn't have a good
00:32:41.120source or anything like that but that's just really not the truth just because you grew up
00:32:47.000online does not mean you are you do have the media literacy skills to keep up with the pure
00:32:53.220volume of content you consume on a daily basis. And so there has to be some real reckoning with
00:32:59.100that sooner rather than later. Well, I say that all the time. I mean, we need to have media
00:33:04.820literacy in all school systems starting in kindergarten. It can't all be on the parents
00:33:11.580because not all parents are going to be capable of this. And so it has to genuinely be baked
00:33:18.200into our school systems. I think that digital natives are going to have just as hard a time
00:33:23.960recognizing deep fakes and disinformation and misinformation as boomers, because frankly,
00:33:30.380all of this looks like news now. And it is a generation that did not grow up
00:33:35.320seeing news intake, news consumption modeled for them. Yep. I completely agree.
00:33:42.100What are your news sources? How do you get your news?
00:33:44.320that's such a good question um i start my morning every day reading political playbook
00:33:51.040the skim and punchful newsletter i also have some sub stacks that i subscribe to and i read
00:33:59.240pretty daily jessica valenti um what's resonating and then i i love to comb through i love the
00:34:10.180Atlantic, Cut, and different articles trending online. And then, yeah, so, but every morning I
00:34:19.000spend about 30 minutes trying to read. I also like listening to The Daily in the morning,
00:34:23.420and I do enjoy The Wall Street Journal, too. So that's a pretty extensive and wide-ranging
00:34:30.500news diet. Do you think that that is fairly normal for someone your age? I do not, but
00:34:37.260But I think that we have to normalize, try to push back into a time where people do carve out a few minutes of their day to read something.
00:34:46.960Like these daily newsletters take like three or four minutes to read and you can do it on your commute.
00:34:52.800You can do it when you're on the elliptical.
00:34:56.060You can do it in bed and it would be so amazing for it.