Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - Sunday Nice Things： Let's Talk About Birth with Lo & Behold

00:00:00.000 Jo here, and welcome to Sunday Nice Things. For the past six months, I've been working

00:00:10.840 on something that I think is pretty cool. It's a podcast series for BabyList about

00:00:15.660 just the raw, honest truth about what it is like to give birth. And it should be ready

00:00:21.420 in the new year. I'll keep you all updated. But one of the birth educators that I have

00:00:25.680 become completely obsessed with is Lo Mansfield. I want to find out that one of my friends is

00:00:31.940 pregnant. Her Instagram account, TheLaborMama, is one of the top five that I send them.

00:00:38.440 Lo spent her entire nursing career in labor, delivery, and postpartum nursing,

00:00:42.480 and now she's a birth educator. She is incredible. There is so much misinformation out there about

00:00:48.040 birth, which is one of the reasons that I wanted to work on this podcast in the first place,

00:00:51.560 but it's also why I love highlighting creators who are telling the truth.

00:00:56.800 Lo has also created her own podcast, and I want to drop that in the feed today because I know a lot

00:01:01.460 of you are pregnant or wanting to get pregnant. So maybe this is for you and maybe it's not. If 0.93

00:01:06.780 it's not, you can always skip it, y'all. You can. You can. I do think it's really important to call

00:01:11.900 out good information as much as we call out misinformation these days. And I love what Lo

00:01:18.540 is doing. Her podcast is called Lo and Behold, the podcast. It is just, it's fantastic. I'll drop a

00:01:25.460 link to all the episodes in the show notes. This episode is called Is Pain-Free Birth Real?

00:01:31.760 And most of you know, because I've talked about my unbirth story before, that I love an epidural.

00:01:36.560 I loved it, okay? I thought it was one of the best things that had ever happened to me in my

00:01:41.280 entire life. I was like, this is magic. But every woman's body is different. And Lo is really good

00:01:46.740 and talking about those differences and what might be possible.

00:01:50.120 So if you're a person who wants more info about giving birth,

00:01:52.920 this podcast might be for you.

00:01:54.460 Give it a listen.

00:01:55.720 Have a great Sunday, guys.

00:01:56.980 You deserve it.

00:01:58.200 Go birds.

00:02:05.100 Do you know what months are the busiest on the labor unit?

00:02:08.960 These ones.

00:02:09.560 The end of summer, early fall before the holidays months.

00:02:13.340 I'm not going to lie.

00:02:14.640 Working on the OB unit in these months was wild, just as much as it was so much fun.

00:02:19.840 But what I saw over and over again was that these busier seasons often meant your providers

00:02:24.240 had less time.

00:02:25.780 Less time to teach you, less time to educate you about pros and cons, and often, less time

00:02:30.740 to give you to make your own decisions.

00:02:33.300 I want to make sure that this doesn't happen to you, and it won't once you join me inside

00:02:37.480 of the Your Body, Your Birth class.

00:02:38.940 an online course created by me a mama former labor and mom baby nurse and clc the video and

00:02:45.660 audio inside this class will take you from overwhelmed worried and unsure to prepared

00:02:50.460 informed and excited and ready to chase the birth you want regardless of how busy your provider or

00:02:56.740 that ob unit might be to get started right now and save 25 for being a podcast listener head

00:03:03.040 over to thelabormama.com slash birth and use the code mama25 to join me for as little as $65 0.96

00:03:09.900 today. The link in your coupon code are in the show notes.

00:03:13.720 motherhood is all-consuming having babies nursing feeling the fear of loving someone that much and

00:03:39.620 there's this baby on your chest and boom your entire life has changed it's a privilege of being

00:03:44.180 your child's safest space and watching your heart walk around outside of your body the truth is

00:03:49.180 i can be having the best time being a mom one minute and then the next i'm questioning all

00:03:54.720 my life choices i'm lo mansfield your host of the lo and behold podcast mama of four littles

00:04:01.680 former labor and postpartum rn clc and your new best friend in the messy middle space of all the

00:04:07.840 choices you are making in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood. If there is one thing I know after

00:04:13.520 years of delivering babies at the bedside and then having and now raising those four of my own,

00:04:19.180 it is that there is no such thing as a best way to do any of this. And we're leaning into that

00:04:25.440 truth here. With the mix of real life and what the textbook says, expert insights and practical

00:04:31.260 applications, each week we're making our way towards stories that we participate in, stories

00:04:36.480 that we are honest about and stories that are ours.

00:04:40.360 This is the Lo and Behold podcast.

00:04:45.620 When I am on my Instagram, one of my favorite questions to ask, you know, like throw a question

00:04:51.640 up in stories and just get the responses is describe what labor pain feels like or describe

00:04:58.020 what, you know, the pain of labor and birth feels like, because I am telling you the number

00:05:04.280 and range of responses that you will get, ones that make you laugh, that make you cringe,

00:05:09.960 that make you tighten up your pelvic floor muscles because you remember or it, you know,

00:05:15.180 triggers some sort of memory for you. You know, there is just this plethora of answers. One of

00:05:20.740 my favorites was from a friend, Alyssa. I actually went to college with her. And she said that the

00:05:26.700 pain of contractions essentially felt like a bowling ball was falling out of her butthole. 0.98

00:05:32.580 And I have never forgotten that feeling because she's not wrong in that the pressure that 0.93

00:05:38.400 you feel at that moment in time, kind of end of labor, pushing all of that, it is something

00:05:44.660 else.

00:05:45.340 But I wanted to talk to you guys today about labor pain and specifically the idea of pain

00:05:52.400 free birth and what we're supposed to do with that and how we're supposed to hold that and

00:05:56.800 what we're supposed to think about it when it's brought up on social media or maybe we

00:06:01.940 see educators talking about it, or maybe your best friend tells you, hey, my birth was pain-free,

00:06:06.460 whatever it is, however that is presented to you. I think it can cause and trigger a lot of feelings,

00:06:12.700 maybe hope, maybe anger, frustration, confusion. And so I wanted to kind of lean into that

00:06:17.660 and talk about what that phrase means to you, what I personally think it means,

00:06:23.480 and then kind of how you can walk forward with whatever you understand after we finish

00:06:29.560 chatting today. In general, I do feel like that there is the possibility that those who talk and

00:06:37.300 teach about pain-free birth, and not necessarily a specific person is doing this, but the way that

00:06:44.020 we interpret that pain-free birth, especially if we've never experienced it or if it were our goal

00:06:48.840 and it didn't happen, is that it often can be made to make us feel like we somehow did something

00:06:55.720 wrong if pain-free birth was our goal and we then experienced pain. There's this mentality or this

00:07:02.120 idea that I wasn't strong enough, I wasn't in charge of myself enough, regardless of how your

00:07:07.920 labor or birth went, that you still think somehow I have failed. And that is not universally true

00:07:14.140 for all of us. And I am not saying that all pain-free birth educators make you think if you

00:07:19.260 experience pain, you're a failure. That's not true at all. But I think sometimes those two go hand in

00:07:24.000 hand. And so when you're chasing that, when you're pursuing pain-free birth and you don't achieve it,

00:07:29.420 maybe even in the presence of an unmedicated birth or, you know, quote unquote, a beautiful birth

00:07:33.840 that otherwise you thought was perfection. But if you had felt pain, then you somehow think that

00:07:39.620 you have failed. And so I kind of want to get right at that right away and say it's absolutely

00:07:45.080 universally, unilaterally, that is not true. I do not think any pain-free birther would teach that,

00:07:51.580 should teach that. And it also is just simply not true. Experiencing pain in labor does not 0.50

00:07:58.280 indicate failure in any way, shape, or form. And obviously, you know, as you're listening to this,

00:08:04.080 that the universal or more common majority opinion is that, heck yeah, I experienced pain in labor

00:08:10.620 every single time. And so kind of holding that, but also knowing that there are people who teach

00:08:16.760 this pain-free birth and who believe you can achieve it as well. I think it's important to

00:08:21.700 kind of dig into those and try to figure out what's going on on both ends of the spectrum

00:08:26.280 and then figure out where you can land and how you feel about it. So I will tell you right away

00:08:31.500 that I believe that pain-free birth is real and that people aren't, you know, cuckoo if they're

00:08:37.180 teaching this, that it doesn't just happen super naturally, that it's not something that only is

00:08:41.720 available to certain people, that it is something that can be achieved. Will I tell you that I had

00:08:48.840 them? I did not. And we will get into that more. Not even close. Wasn't a goal. But again, we will

00:08:54.320 talk about that later. But I don't think it's this cuckoo thing. I want you to hear that. So if it is

00:08:59.100 your goal, I hope that what I'm telling you next and what I'm sharing next can help you achieve

00:09:04.240 that or understand how it's possible. If it is not your goal, great. Then I have a ton in here for

00:09:08.780 you too, because we are going to discuss all of it. I think when we start this conversation,

00:09:14.880 one of the first things to do is just get at pain, understanding pain at more of a chemical

00:09:21.120 or physiological level, you know, what's going on in the body. I like to look at pain, whether it

00:09:27.480 be in labor or not, honestly, as coming kind of from two ways. We have biological factors related

00:09:33.200 to pain, which are physical causes of pain, right? Like the actual things going on in the body,

00:09:38.780 So if we're talking about labor specifically, we're talking about, you know, the pressure

00:09:42.120 you're feeling, the uterine contraction that's happening in that uterine muscle, the stretching

00:09:46.400 of the cervix or the birth canal, baby's head literally pushing on your spine.

00:09:51.320 Those are biological.

00:09:52.340 Those are physical causes of pain.

00:09:54.420 And you know, yes, they hit nerves and things and signals to the brain.

00:09:57.900 And we have this whole process going on that says, hey, I'm hurting.

00:10:00.580 And the brain's talking to your body from what it's experiencing and you feel pain.

00:10:05.460 The other factor that I think goes into this is psychological factors related to pain.

00:10:10.320 So we're talking about mental and emotional perceptions of pain here.

00:10:14.320 And this is more about your mind.

00:10:16.340 So maybe this includes things like fear of pain or anxiety over what's happening, confusion

00:10:22.100 about what the body is doing, and how all of those things can play into pain as well.

00:10:29.280 The other thing that I think that's really valuable in this conversation is the fear,

00:10:33.380 tension, pain cycle.

00:10:35.000 And that is something that really explains the interplay between these two factors that

00:10:40.800 I just talked about, the biological and then that psychological, so body and kind of mind

00:10:46.060 heart connection.

00:10:46.860 So the fear, attention, pain cycle, and I'm going to use labor examples while I explain

00:10:51.720 this, essentially is this idea that the more fear that you have, the more pain you will

00:10:58.760 feel.

00:10:59.620 And I actually, I saw a post on Instagram a while ago, and it ruffled a lot of feathers.

00:11:03.820 And if we're being honest, I didn't love the way it read as well, but a lot of posts are

00:11:09.060 just meant to be like clickbait, get you to read and learn more.

00:11:11.920 So I've done that as well.

00:11:13.260 So I'm guilty of that.

00:11:14.260 But the post, the initial phrase on the initial side of the post said, labor isn't painful,

00:11:20.440 you're just scared.

00:11:21.920 And again, while I don't love that vocabulary and the way that was presented, what it's

00:11:26.480 talking about, what this post is leaning into is this fear, tension, pain cycle, that idea

00:11:30.420 that fear increases pain.

00:11:33.340 So essentially, this cycle tells us that, let's say we're scared about labor pain, right?

00:11:38.140 And yes, I've been there.

00:11:39.840 What's it going to feel like?

00:11:40.820 I don't want to do this again.

00:11:42.100 It's feeling worse.

00:11:42.940 It's getting harder.

00:11:43.720 I have absolutely experienced all of these things in my birth.

00:11:46.900 And so essentially what happens is as we are fearful, it creates tension in our bodies,

00:11:51.780 right?

00:11:51.980 We start to clench our fists.

00:11:53.100 We clench our jaw.

00:11:54.060 We hold our shoulders really tight.

00:11:55.580 We're doing these things that kind of cause our body to lock up, right?

00:12:00.360 So our mind, what we think, what we are fearful of is impacting what's going on physically,

00:12:06.800 right?

00:12:07.100 And so you can see how this fear can lead to tension.

00:12:10.040 Now, the problem here, you know, what comes next is that tension can actually increase

00:12:14.600 pain.

00:12:15.460 So if we go back to, you know, that uterine contraction example, I'm scared of what I'm

00:12:19.980 going to feel.

00:12:20.680 I tense up and I'm nervous waiting for, you know, this next contraction.

00:12:24.860 When that contraction hits, the tension that I'm holding in my body actually is going to

00:12:31.160 cause me to experience that contraction more painfully because of the tension I'm holding

00:12:36.840 in my body.

00:12:37.660 This is why at a very foundational level, why it's so much of labor advice specific to

00:12:42.920 pain is relax, relax your jaw, release your hands, drop your shoulders.

00:12:47.640 We're trying to get rid of tension because it actually then means you will experience

00:12:51.280 less pain.

00:12:53.020 So let's go back.

00:12:53.900 when we are holding all that tension, we hit that contraction. It is painful and it is possibly

00:12:58.720 more painful because we were so tense and nervous and scared headed into it. So the pain has

00:13:04.740 increased or it is bigger than maybe the prior contraction. And all of a sudden we're stuck in

00:13:09.540 this cycle and our brain's telling us, I knew it. I knew that was going to hurt. It was horrible.

00:13:13.580 It was worse than the last one. We become more fearful of what comes next. And then you can see

00:13:19.460 Here's the tension again, and we're just kind of tumbling over, right?

00:13:23.540 And so the goal in labor, whether or not you want it to be pain-free, but certainly if

00:13:28.680 that is the goal, is you've got to stop this cycle, right?

00:13:32.020 And that cycle actually starts with those kind of psychological inputs of pain, which

00:13:37.340 are the mind, the heart, you know, what your brain is telling your body about the pain.

00:13:42.800 So all of that, I think, is really fundamental or crucial to understanding labor pain.

00:13:48.700 And then what we do with that is we step into that and go, okay, now where do I land in this

00:13:54.920 spectrum? How do I think I can navigate this? How do I think I can kind of step into this and handle

00:14:01.420 my own labor pain? So let's go into this pain-free birth topic specifically. So we have that

00:14:08.680 knowledge, this understanding of what pain is. And now we answer the question, is pain-free birth

00:14:14.900 truly, truly real. And I think it's helpful to know what we just talked about because you can

00:14:21.000 see, I think if you're being open about this, that man, if someone has just this incredible

00:14:26.720 control over their mind, it is possible that that mind can be so powerful and so strong

00:14:33.880 that it can interrupt this cycle so completely that you can almost truly kind of close the gates

00:14:41.180 between what your brain is telling you and what your body is experiencing. Because we cannot

00:14:47.840 stop what is going on physically, right? Like your uterine muscle in labor is going to contract.

00:14:53.680 You cannot stop that. It is necessary. It is important. It is what we need it to do.

00:14:58.240 But can we kind of step in the middle of the signals and the things that are going on between

00:15:03.500 mind and body and experience pain-free birth? So like I said, right when we started, I actually

00:15:09.420 think you can. I think it is incredibly challenging. I think it is something that

00:15:15.620 requires like a lot of skill and practice. Hypnobirthing, I know, leans into this so much

00:15:20.280 of this massive, specific, intense control over your mind. But I do think that for some,

00:15:27.560 their psychological control over what they're feeling physically is big enough to override

00:15:35.440 the experience of, you know, that quote-unquote typical experience of pain during labor.

00:15:41.200 And it is proven, you know, we have research or things that show us kind of that look at

00:15:46.140 all these connections that I'm talking about that show us that control over your mind does

00:15:51.540 decrease the labor pain experience.

00:15:53.440 And again, going back to what I said, I think you can see how these systems work together,

00:15:56.780 how in theory you could get in the middle of them and stop that pain.

00:16:00.280 And that specific kind of pathway that I'm talking about or that ability to kind of interject yourself or control into this process, it's about the central nervous system control.

00:16:13.020 There's this acronym CNSC.

00:16:15.520 And basically what it's saying is that control over your mind and what you are thinking can directly impact the pain you do or don't feel.

00:16:24.740 And then some have experienced this like ultimate central nervous system control.

00:16:30.280 over their labor pain. Okay, so let's talk about how they might do that. And obviously you've

00:16:37.480 already picked up on I'm saying how they might do that because again, this is not something

00:16:41.820 that I experienced, but I do believe it's possible and real. And so again, I want to share the ways

00:16:49.080 that people are navigating this and kind of chasing that goal if that is what your goal is as well.

00:16:56.240 Okay, so how can we potentially experience pain-free labor

00:16:59.540 and if anything, experience less pain?

00:17:02.720 So childbirth education classes, 0.83

00:17:04.740 this is just a proven strategy 0.79

00:17:07.220 that essentially education, good education,

00:17:10.820 comprehensive education is going to decrease fear, right?

00:17:14.060 And so as soon as we know that,

00:17:15.780 your brain's gonna go, oh, that fear, tension, pain cycle.

00:17:17.720 If I decrease my fear headed into labor,

00:17:20.860 then I am going to experience less pain.

00:17:24.120 And that's just true.

00:17:25.200 that fear, tension, pain cycle is real.

00:17:27.040 Less fear, less tension, less pain.

00:17:29.480 However, I think it's also important to know

00:17:31.860 that I think fear, like healthy fear headed into labor,

00:17:36.000 there's nothing wrong with that.

00:17:37.800 I think there is a way to hold fear and look at it and go,

00:17:40.980 there are some things about labor that are unknown

00:17:42.860 that's hard for me to sit with,

00:17:45.120 but it also doesn't mean I'm going to walk

00:17:47.120 into this fearful, tense, unable to kind of process,

00:17:51.620 manage, and move through some of the things

00:17:53.540 that I know are coming or that might be coming. So I don't think the goal is total fear elimination.

00:17:59.180 Perhaps someone who's really chasing pain-free birth would say that is the goal, that we are

00:18:03.700 not going to feel any fear at all. But in general, back to my initial point, is that childbirth

00:18:09.180 education can kind of get at the heart of that fear, diminish it, and then we see the subsequent

00:18:15.900 value of that, right? You're talking about increased knowledge, calm, peace, control,

00:18:21.660 sitting right there next to maybe fear that your prior health. So that's why education is just so

00:18:26.900 incredibly important and really should be first step for any of us. Okay, the other thing, another

00:18:34.380 thing, I mentioned this once already, but it's practices like hypnobirthing or hypnobabies.

00:18:39.100 And so much of those are about this very intense, powerful control over your mind, which we don't

00:18:46.160 need to go over that again. You already know, just has this massive trickle-down effect.

00:18:49.900 aromatherapy, music, relaxation and deep breathing, touch and massage, all of those are on the list

00:18:56.540 as well. Those are a lot of those other kind of basic comfort measures that you see a lot in just

00:19:01.700 the unmedicated birth conversation, right? All of these are shown to create safety, create calm,

00:19:08.440 create peace, which you know now is that psychological control. We're hitting that.

00:19:13.620 And when we do that, then we have less tension, less pain. And so you can see how so much of this

00:19:18.860 is really getting at that psychological control. Some of it, you know, maybe touch, massage,

00:19:25.920 counterpressure, things like that. You're hitting at physical pain factors and inputs as well. But

00:19:30.780 so much of this really is about the mind and then how the mind will communicate with or work with

00:19:36.800 the body. Okay. So that is kind of, in my opinion, this kind of broad understanding of pain-free

00:19:43.060 birth? Is it real? What does that mean? What are people talking about? How are they going to chase

00:19:49.520 it? The next thing I actually want to talk about is pain tolerance and why I personally feel like

00:19:55.820 why your pain tolerance has nothing to do with how you will handle labor. And I think this is

00:20:00.920 valuable for those who are pursuing pain-free birth and those who are just having a baby in

00:20:06.260 general. So if that's you as well, listen up. I do not care if you have a low pain tolerance in

00:20:13.080 life. I do not care if a paper cut sends you reeling, if a bee sting makes you weep. None of

00:20:19.400 that, in my opinion, has any reflection on how you will handle labor pain. And I want you to hear

00:20:26.400 that because I think a lot of times we make assumptions about ourselves and what we are

00:20:31.340 capable of before we've ever even felt the first contraction. And I think we're doing ourselves a

00:20:37.180 huge disservice when we do that because the way that we show up in labor is not, in my opinion,

00:20:44.060 predictable. That's why I think people can learn and that they can take classes and actually then

00:20:49.380 say, oh my gosh, I am surprised with myself. I actually stepped into this in a way I had

00:20:56.080 no idea I would. And yes, let's say the reverse is true as well. Like I'm not going to be dishonest

00:21:01.520 about that. Sometimes maybe you are going to think I will crush it. And for whatever reason,

00:21:06.420 it surprises you in a way that you didn't expect. But ultimately what I want you to hear is I do not

00:21:11.940 think the tolerance for pain that you have in your, you know, quote unquote, regular life

00:21:17.000 is an indication of the way you are going to handle labor pain. And I want that to be

00:21:21.660 encouraging, not discouraging. Okay, so leaning into that a little bit more. Pain tolerance in

00:21:28.160 your regular life is not an indication of labor tolerance. I say this a lot on my Instagram. We

00:21:32.720 talk about this in Your Body, Your Birth course that I teach and educate inside of as well.

00:21:37.860 The pain of labor contractions and the pain in your regular life, they just aren't the same thing.

00:21:45.580 So what we have going on is a lot of the physical aspects, again, I talked about those physical

00:21:50.160 inputs of pain, those are the same, right? Something's happening in your skin, in your

00:21:54.800 tissue, against your body. Physically, there are similar things in regular life that might be going

00:22:00.780 on and could be compared to physically things that are going on in labor. You can make that

00:22:05.780 comparison. However, labor pain has intention. It has purpose. There is emotion tied to labor pain

00:22:15.700 that can change your response to what you're feeling physically.

00:22:19.920 So that is why we can't just compare a bee sting.

00:22:24.420 Obviously, you're not going to compare a bee sting to contractions.

00:22:26.900 But when I broke my leg, I did not handle it at all.

00:22:31.700 So I doubt that I'll be able to handle labor pain as well.

00:22:34.940 You just can't compare those two.

00:22:36.360 Because while the physical parts could be similar,

00:22:39.360 the psychological, what's going on,

00:22:41.760 the emotional components of all of that, those are not the same.

00:22:44.920 Okay, so that's why. Labor pain, pain in regular life, you cannot compare the two. Okay, that's the first point. My second point in all of this is labor pain is pain with purpose, and I kind of already hinted to that. But nearly all of the pain that we experience in life outside of childbirth, it lacks a purpose. It will feel senseless, right?

00:23:06.540 You often have this like, why is this happening to me?

00:23:08.680 Why did this just happen?

00:23:09.740 If it's something huge, you know, there's even broader conversations going on in your

00:23:13.760 head, but essentially there is not a good purpose or ending to that.

00:23:18.580 It's something you have to deal with and bear, but there's no goodness on the other

00:23:22.780 side of it, except just being past whatever is going on.

00:23:26.320 The pain of labor does not lack purpose, right?

00:23:29.680 The reverse is actually true.

00:23:31.960 and it is some of, I would say, some of the most purposeful, if not the most purposeful pain that

00:23:38.520 you may ever experience in your entire life. So even if you do not like how you feel in labor

00:23:43.820 and you want it to stop, right? You want that end goal. You still have emotionally going on

00:23:50.040 this conversation in your head that I'm going to meet my child today. What I'm going through right

00:23:56.360 now is going to lead me to my child. And that is going to significantly impact your tolerance of

00:24:03.300 what's going on. Okay, third point in this tolerance conversation, your body responds

00:24:09.860 differently to labor pain than it does pain outside of labor. And I love this science. I

00:24:16.420 love deep diving inside of the course. I love when you understand this science. But this aspect of

00:24:23.500 the body has these really specific responses to help you navigate and handle labor pain is why

00:24:30.600 that conversation of, you know how people will say, you would never have your tooth pulled

00:24:37.160 without medication. Why would you have an unmedicated birth? And that conversation ties

00:24:41.880 in directly to this point because having your tooth pulled is something that is not supposed

00:24:48.500 to happen, right? Your body doesn't kick in with all these mechanisms like, today's the day we're

00:24:52.780 going to pull a tooth. So here's all the ways that I'm going to help you. We need medication to walk

00:24:57.540 through that because there are things going on that in theory aren't supposed to happen, right?

00:25:03.340 However, in labor, there are all of these designs to encourage and help that process, right? And so

00:25:10.300 we're talking about endorphins that kick in, processes that support labor. We have this

00:25:16.500 interplay between all kinds of hormones that literally show up during labor when you're

00:25:21.940 experiencing pain. And it's like your body saying, hey, I want to help you in this. So here are these

00:25:26.900 systems to help you do this, I'm going to use the word better, but do this maybe less painfully or

00:25:32.840 to help support you in this so that you feel more calm, you feel more peace, you feel more pain.

00:25:38.660 That, what's happening in labor, it's beautiful, it's magical, it's incredibly cool to me.

00:25:42.920 That's why people can achieve unmedicated birth and certainly why people can, you know, chase

00:25:47.700 after a pain-free birth because these systems are at play. Not the same when you break your leg,

00:25:52.200 not the same when you pull a tooth. So I just, I cannot stand that argument comparing those two

00:25:58.640 types of pain. So third point, that. And then fourth point, that idea that anyone can handle

00:26:05.320 birth better than expected. And we already talked about this, so I won't ramble on it about it at

00:26:10.180 you again. But essentially, I just want you to hear again, don't doom yourself to a certain

00:26:15.540 experience based on your history, maybe. So whether it's your first birth and you're basing

00:26:21.200 how you're going to feel off of how you've handled pain in your life prior, or maybe it's your fourth 0.98

00:26:27.200 or fifth baby and you think, gosh, the first, second, third one, absolute trash. It was so 0.98

00:26:31.620 miserable. It's going to be miserable again. I just want you to hear and to see that there are 0.85

00:26:36.920 these systems at play. And so it can be different and you can show up differently than maybe you

00:26:43.780 thought you had or than you did prior. And essentially, you know, going back to that idea

00:26:49.180 of education being so incredibly valuable for a pain-free birth conversation, but also any labor

00:26:55.960 conversation, is that right this moment, you know more than you did 10 minutes ago, and you know

00:27:03.440 more than you did yesterday. So I want you to leave yourself room to surprise yourself. And I

00:27:09.100 don't care if you're like, I'm getting an epidural as soon as I hit four centimeters or whatever.

00:27:13.280 I still want you to leave yourself room to surprise yourself with how you're going to

00:27:17.980 navigate this.

00:27:18.880 I want you to be gracious to that person who's walking into this labor experience, and I

00:27:25.260 want you to have kind of a lot of grace for that person too and how they're going to show

00:27:29.540 up because I don't think this is all written already for you, okay?

00:27:33.180 I think that there is a lot of possibilities here.

00:27:35.920 You've got a big role here and that you need to leave yourself space for how this might

00:27:41.120 look and how this might play out.

00:27:42.560 Okay, third big kind of overriding thing that I want to talk about in this pain conversation

00:27:47.240 as well is what if you think pain-free birth is not for you?

00:27:52.160 And I hope if you're someone who was listening for this part of the conversation that you

00:27:59.440 haven't dropped off.

00:28:00.180 You're still here.

00:28:00.800 You're listening because I think those first kind of two big points, some people could

00:28:05.100 peace out and be like, oh, Lord, is that really what she's talking about?

00:28:08.300 I think labor's going to hurt. 0.97

00:28:09.560 This is ridiculous. 0.96

00:28:10.660 Like, I don't want to hear the rest of this. 0.83

00:28:11.980 So if you're still here, yay, let's talk about what if you think pain-free isn't for

00:28:16.160 you and what that means.

00:28:17.700 And this specifically, maybe you think pain-free isn't for you, but unmedicated birth is for

00:28:22.560 you.

00:28:23.180 Maybe you think pain-free birth isn't for you, but you're like the mama I just mentioned

00:28:26.860 and you are ready for that epidural.

00:28:28.940 But you also know I'm going to experience pain at some point in this whole process.

00:28:32.340 Okay, I don't know where you are, but assuming that you are coming at this saying, I don't

00:28:38.480 believe, or I'm not into pain-free labor, or I just don't want to make that a goal. Let's talk

00:28:43.340 about that. Okay. And I want to say, I know I've mentioned twice, I am not someone who experienced

00:28:49.320 pain-free birth or labor, that this was more me. And so we'll just be honest about that.

00:28:55.160 Labor, in my opinion, is painful, was painful, has been painful. And I see all the interplays

00:29:04.140 of how all these systems work, but I have gone into them, especially after experiencing it my

00:29:10.060 first time. And I have said essentially in my brain, I believe that this will be hard. I believe

00:29:17.280 that I'm going to experience pain, but I can learn about ways to deal. And so that is kind of

00:29:24.320 what I'm speaking to here. I personally had the goal of unmedicated births with my baby. So I was

00:29:30.820 that person who said, I'm not chasing pain-free birth, but I do want an unmedicated birth. And so

00:29:36.540 for me, it was like, give me all the tools because I'm going to utilize them when I am hurting and

00:29:41.680 try to, you know, mitigate that or make it easier and potentially get those unmedicated birth goals.

00:29:47.880 So that's kind of how I approach this. I believe labor is going to be hard. I think it is going

00:29:52.840 to hurt. And I want to learn about the tools and the ways to minimize that. I think it is also

00:29:59.020 totally okay to not think you can have pain-free birth and still be wildly confident. That is how

00:30:05.020 I have felt walking into my births. I've seen plenty of moms and patients walk in the same way.

00:30:11.060 And so I think it's totally okay to have that. That's not a diss toward anyone with different

00:30:15.680 goals. It's simply something that I think is absolutely okay. You can have a little bit of

00:30:20.680 fear. We've already talked about that. You can have healthy fear. You can think pain is real,

00:30:24.340 and you can still be confident about all of this.

00:30:27.700 No matter what your goals are though,

00:30:29.960 you just don't want to do nothing while you get ready.

00:30:33.380 So even if pain-free birth is not the goal for you,

00:30:36.720 maybe your goal's like mine,

00:30:38.120 maybe it's something else,

00:30:39.920 regardless, even if pain-free is not the goal for you,

00:30:43.660 you can't do nothing walking into this.

00:30:46.760 So let's talk about some questions to ask yourself

00:30:50.180 or things that I also thought about or asked myself,

00:30:52.900 ways I approached my own birth and kind of work through some ideas that you may have

00:30:57.500 about pain as you just get ready to walk into your birth. I think one of the first big things

00:31:04.460 to talk about, think through maybe inside of whatever course you're pursuing is kind of

00:31:09.520 figure out some mentalities from the education you're getting is what are your expectations

00:31:14.040 about pain? And obviously we're addressing a ton of these right here. What could be true?

00:31:18.160 What might not be true? And then you're supposed to figure out where you're going to land, right?

00:31:21.400 that's how we started this is, you know, I want you to figure out where you're going to land after

00:31:24.840 hearing this today. So what are your expectations about pain? I think it's important and valuable

00:31:29.120 to think about who has shaped them. And is that someone who should have shaped them? Is their

00:31:34.720 bias? Is their slant? Is their judgments related to those people or the inputs that have shaped

00:31:40.020 your perceptions of pain? And then the question kind of at the end of that of, do they need

00:31:45.020 refining? And again, you're here, you're learning. So in my opinion, you're already refining. I don't

00:31:49.600 know where you'll land, but you're already kind of molding and shaping your expectations or what

00:31:55.580 you think about pain and how you want to move forward with that. So you're already getting at

00:32:00.080 this one right now, which is great. The second thing I think that is really valuable to think

00:32:05.420 about and keep in the conversation is, you know, I've already told you this, evidence is wildly

00:32:10.360 clear that birth education positively impacts different outcomes than birth. Like we can tie

00:32:17.060 good education, comprehensive, and in my opinion, unbiased, unslanted, nonjudgmental education,

00:32:23.320 it can impact really specific outcomes in birth. So I would ask you as you're prepping for your

00:32:28.780 birth, how are you learning? Who are you learning from? And is it open, honest, comprehensive? Is

00:32:35.240 it giving you that freedom to take in information and then decide how you want to apply it to your

00:32:42.700 life. I think that's so important for birth education is that freedom to then decide this

00:32:49.400 is what I'm going to do with what you've just taught me. So that's point two. Second thing I

00:32:54.720 think is really important to think about as you walk into your labor. The third thing, I want you

00:32:59.940 to understand the emotional signposts as they relate to pain especially. They play such a

00:33:07.120 specific role in your labor and your birth. I have a blog post on these as well and I can link that

00:33:12.080 in the show notes for you. But essentially, the emotional signposts of labor are these

00:33:16.860 emotions that you will go through during your labor, particularly more in an unmedicated birth.

00:33:22.420 And I would say also in a pain-free birth, though, the psychological mind control might

00:33:27.180 or could be so powerful there that you don't see these on display as much. So I would bet that

00:33:33.380 internally, you would still be feeling them. But essentially, there are these changes in your

00:33:37.920 emotions that happen along with labor stages. And I'm going to do a podcast episode about these

00:33:43.220 tying together with stages so you guys can understand them at a really kind of basic level,

00:33:48.360 what they mean. But emotional signposts are not this woo-woo crunchy thing. They're really,

00:33:54.560 really cool. And I've actually personally experienced them, so I know that they are real.

00:33:59.440 And I have seen them in my patients and my moms that I've taken care of. Looking back too,

00:34:04.800 especially because a lot of my births happened after I was a nurse at the bedside. Now I'm so

00:34:09.260 much more cognizant and aware of these emotional signposts. And so I can think back to so many

00:34:13.660 patients and I think, oh, she was in this point in labor. She was experiencing this signpost.

00:34:19.920 This is why this was happening. And so I want you to understand the emotional signposts,

00:34:23.940 read that blog post. And when you understand them, I think the emotional changes that happen

00:34:29.300 in your body as your labor progresses is not going to scare you. Those emotional signposts

00:34:35.200 may even encourage you and you will find that all of that, less fear, right guys, less tension,

00:34:41.320 less pain, all of that is going to tie into your labor pain conversation and the way you're

00:34:46.100 navigating whatever is going on. So know those emotional signposts, you can recognize them and

00:34:51.760 use them to kind of navigate what you're going through and what you're feeling during your labor,

00:34:56.120 And the last thing here that I want you to consider or think about, this is what I'm

00:35:00.600 actually saying, don't just hold on to this tight when it comes to labor pain and what 1.00

00:35:05.480 you want to do about it, is your breasts are yours.

00:35:11.140 I cannot, what is the word?

00:35:13.740 I cannot say that more clearly, more directly, your lungs in labor and specifically to how

00:35:20.280 you are navigating whatever pain you do or don't feel are one of your most powerful tools.

00:35:25.420 The way that you breathe during labor can activate specific nervous system responses

00:35:31.560 and those will drastically alter what you feel and your levels of fear.

00:35:37.860 So this is kind of going back to the very beginning of our conversation where we're

00:35:41.520 talking about central nervous system control, those psychological, physical connections

00:35:46.360 between pain, those inputs coming in.

00:35:48.840 But it is wild how powerful your lungs and what you're doing with your own breathing

00:35:54.180 patterns can get right smack in the middle of labor pain and potentially get rid of it for some

00:36:00.780 of us, diminish it for others of us, bring calm, control, peace so that we can navigate whatever

00:36:06.900 we are feeling. And this breath work, this power of your lungs, it is not just about unmedicated

00:36:13.260 labor because you are going to want to deep breathe during postpartum, during C-section

00:36:19.420 recovery, maybe the first time you have to pee, the power of your breasts and what it does to

00:36:25.920 your nervous system and having control over your lungs. It's just, I could ramble on about it 0.94

00:36:31.440 forever. I will stop. I teach about it inside of your body or birth for sure. We talk about

00:36:35.640 the systems at play and how we get in the middle of all of them and how your lungs are so incredibly

00:36:39.860 powerful. So just don't disregard the education around the way you breathe, the types of breathing

00:36:45.240 patterns. You can practice these at home, just how it feels to breathe in certain ways. You know,

00:36:50.580 J breathing, box breathing, even those cleansing breaths, things like that. You can practice all

00:36:55.480 of this. So don't skip past that part inside your birth education or your birth course. Okay.

00:37:00.120 I only utilize breathing as a pain control tool. Okay. That's, I also had, you know,

00:37:06.140 presence support value. Kelvin was close by things like that. But my breathing was the only

00:37:11.140 thing essentially that you could kind of say, oh, look at that tool she's really using. And 0.99

00:37:15.420 it worked for me. So I know the power of it. Okay. I'll stop. That was a lot on your breasts

00:37:22.080 and your lungs. But okay, you guys. So essentially we have talked about what is pain? What are you 0.93

00:37:29.980 supposed to think about it? How can you stand in the middle of it? Right? We've talked about

00:37:33.520 pain-free birth, whether or not it could be real, how it could be real, whether or not you think

00:37:38.120 that's for you, that's up to you, right? And then pursuing that, that's also up to you. Who are you

00:37:42.600 going to go to? Who's going to help you do that? Who's going to help you stand in that? We talked

00:37:47.340 about pain tolerance and how I absolutely don't think that your tolerance of pain now has any

00:37:54.060 impact or should speak at all to how you're going to handle pain during labor. And then we've talked

00:37:59.020 about what happens when you don't think pain-free is for you and how are you going to kind of

00:38:03.040 approach pain and start thinking about it right now as you prep and get ready for maybe the baby

00:38:07.340 you're currently pregnant with, one you're going to have in the future. Ultimately, I think what I

00:38:12.640 want you to hear in all of this is that the things that cause labor pain, they can be understood and

00:38:17.980 explained. Okay. Textbook level. I hope we just did some of that there. These are systems in place,

00:38:23.620 right? So that is important for you to understand that these can be understood. I also want you to

00:38:29.800 hear that labor pain is different than other types of pain and that the body has different mechanisms

00:38:34.280 to step in and help you navigate it.

00:38:37.020 And your power, your control,

00:38:39.100 the things you have going on in labor,

00:38:40.520 you can kind of help utilize those mechanisms.

00:38:42.900 That was the whole rambly breath conversation

00:38:45.360 and power, right?

00:38:46.480 And I think another thing I really want you to hear

00:38:48.420 is that we can also teach and learn ways

00:38:52.580 to kind of change how we respond

00:38:54.300 to what's going on in our bodies during labor.

00:38:56.600 Ultimate goal of what's going on in your body during labor

00:38:59.260 and how you feel, that's yours.

00:39:00.520 You get to set that.

00:39:01.480 I'm not gonna tell you what the goal should be.

00:39:04.280 But I can teach you and help you learn ways to change how you respond, what you're going

00:39:10.620 to do when you are kind of presented with or you are going through the pain of labor

00:39:16.700 or the sensations of labor, however, your vocabulary, whatever vocabulary feels best

00:39:22.360 for you when you talk about that.

00:39:24.320 Ultimately or overall, though, what we can't do and what we shouldn't do is make it seem

00:39:29.900 There is one specific interpretation or specific experience here for all of us if we just knew

00:39:37.460 the right things or we did this the right way.

00:39:39.700 And that kind of trickles back to that conversation of pain-free birth and maybe wanting it, pursuing

00:39:46.140 it, or wondering if you should be pursuing it and feeling any sort of shame if you finished

00:39:50.920 your birth and you didn't experience it the way you'd been taught or told that you would.

00:39:55.580 And that's really, if I had a goal here overall, it would be to eliminate that, you taking

00:40:01.960 that on as shame because you didn't interpret it or experience labor or its associated pain

00:40:08.040 in the way you thought you did and that that's some sort of failure on your part, okay?

00:40:12.100 So please hear that.

00:40:13.780 I know people who have had a pain-free birth.

00:40:16.460 I know people who thought labor was absolutely the worst thing ever.

00:40:20.440 I know people who thought labor was incredible, but it still hurt.

00:40:24.060 and I know people who thought it would be awful

00:40:26.700 and then were really surprised with how they showed up

00:40:29.240 and they managed it.

00:40:30.180 So there is just such a spectrum here

00:40:32.960 and none of those interpretations and experiences

00:40:35.860 are failures or make you wrong

00:40:39.440 when you are relaying that

00:40:41.460 or sharing that with someone else.

00:40:43.860 That right there, that's the reality

00:40:45.340 that all of those are real.

00:40:47.460 We are not the same.

00:40:48.720 And so our experience, they are not the same.

00:40:50.980 We are unique.

00:40:51.780 So no matter what we know or how we prep, all of this is going to be wildly unique to

00:40:58.100 who you are and to who I am.

00:41:01.240 So we're going to teach the tools, right?

00:41:03.940 We're going to teach you how to understand the process, and then we're going to keep

00:41:07.840 sharing ways that you can navigate what you feel and what your body is doing.

00:41:12.860 That's the goal for me here.

00:41:14.120 That's the goal in my birth class.

00:41:15.920 And that's why we do things like make birth plans, right?

00:41:18.920 Because I want you to start seeing all the tools, all the things.

00:41:23.460 I have a birth plan template as well, which is a free resource I can drop in my show notes

00:41:27.440 for you as well.

00:41:28.940 But essentially, that is a way we start towing into these waters, looking at the tools, and

00:41:34.000 then saying, I have a toolbox now.

00:41:36.460 And now I get to choose how to use these tools, not just specific to labor pain, but in the

00:41:41.400 entire process and whatever goals you do or don't have for what is going to happen inside

00:41:47.300 of your birth.

00:41:48.340 There is just so much that you can learn and that you can understand about all of this.

00:41:54.000 But at the end of the day, we are unique, right?

00:41:57.280 And I know I've already said that, but I just want to end here with that.

00:42:00.220 So that means that our experiences in all of this are unique, and we are designed for

00:42:05.900 it to be that way.

00:42:07.240 We are not built for all of us to experience this the same way.

00:42:11.580 And that is why there is so much value in us sharing our stories.

00:42:14.860 And that is why there is so much value in also really taking that in and really understanding

00:42:22.280 that I am not intended to birth in the same way that Lo was.

00:42:26.660 I am not intended to birth in the same way my sister, my mom, or my best friend did.

00:42:30.740 I am intended to birth in the way my body, my mind, my heart is intended to birth.

00:42:37.400 So if you take anything away from that or anything away from this today, I hope that

00:42:42.640 it is that uniqueness.

00:42:44.860 thank you so much for listening to the lo and behold podcast i hope there was something for

00:42:59.180 you in today's episode that made you think made you laugh or made you feel seen for show notes

00:43:04.300 and links to the resources freebies or discount codes mentioned in this episode please head over

00:43:09.180 to loandbeholdpodcast.com. If you aren't following along yet, make sure to tap subscribe or follow

00:43:15.200 in your podcast app so we can keep hanging out together. And if you haven't heard it yet today,

00:43:20.420 you're doing a really good job. A little reminder, opinions shared by guests of this show are their

00:43:25.880 own and do not always reflect those of myself in the Labor Mama platform. Additionally, the

00:43:31.180 information you hear on this podcast or that you receive via any linked resources should not be

00:43:35.940 considered medical advice. Please see our full disclaimer at the link in the show notes.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - September 28, 2025

Sunday Nice Things： Let's Talk About Birth with Lo & Behold

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