Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - The Bright Side of Not Drinking

00:00:00.000 Hey all, Joe here and you are listening to Under the Influence.

00:00:11.360 Suzanne Warei was one of my very first guests on this show.

00:00:14.820 In season two, I started branching out talking about different kinds of influencers, and

00:00:19.280 I was fascinated by the world of sobriety influencers.

00:00:23.680 Now at the time, Suzanne was one of the few people talking very publicly about their sobriety

00:00:29.680 on social media. And I remember thinking, this woman is on to something. She's very good at what

00:00:36.140 she does. Fast forward about four years, and she's written a book called The Sober Shift.

00:00:42.140 It's part memoir, part manifesto, and part middle finger to the alcohol industry's decades-long

00:00:48.060 campaign to convince women that wine is both our reward and our identity. Here is what I love about

00:00:55.280 Suzanne. She is not judgy. She wants to tell you her journey and she wants to give you some tips 1.00

00:01:01.320 if being sober curious is part of your journey. She makes the sober life feel and look aspirational,

00:01:07.920 which is what influencers do. They are very good at that. But as she says in this episode,

00:01:12.640 sobriety has for a long time gotten kind of bad branding. It has. And I love the fact that Suzanne

00:01:19.760 is brutally honest. She's brutally honest about what it feels like to wake up and realize that

00:01:25.100 you nursed your baby in a blackout, why AA didn't work for her, and why sobriety doesn't need to be

00:01:32.760 boring or punitive. This conversation is messy, hilarious, non-judgmental, and also deeply

00:01:39.880 necessary. Because I do think the alcohol industry has done a very good job of influencing us,

00:01:45.180 as have influencers who make wine culture and booze culture part of their jam. Now, I for one

00:01:51.720 am a person who still drinks. And yet, this is something that I want to talk more about,

00:01:56.720 and I think it's something we should generally feel more comfortable talking openly about

00:02:00.120 without shame or guilt or any of the weirdness that often surrounds conversations about booze.

00:02:09.180 Hello, Suzanne. Hi, Jo. Oh my gosh. I'm just so excited to be talking. Oh my god. I love that we

00:02:17.900 were talking for like 20 minutes before this 20 minutes before this we were just like shooting 0.98

00:02:23.620 the shit yeah we could just talk like we don't even have to and then we're like well we might 0.99

00:02:28.000 as well record but we could just like talk and talk about everything you are you are my you are 0.99

00:02:33.160 my go-to for everything like book world and so you you've helped me so much this entire process

00:02:39.260 to be like what the hell am I doing what the hell is happening what is going on I'm putting a book

00:02:44.900 into the world and I don't I mean no the thing is no one knows how to do this oh my god no one

00:02:49.420 knows I mean I do you know I compare writing books and publishing books a lot to giving birth

00:02:57.380 probably because like I really was doing both at the same time for so long which is wild I just

00:03:04.040 don't know how you do all that you do but it's totally true it does feel like I don't know people

00:03:10.220 people keep asking me, like, how do you feel? Are you excited? Like, I'm like, excited? No,

00:03:15.920 I'm like, terrified and naked. Like, that's how I feel. I feel like very much like,

00:03:23.320 I have no idea what I'm doing. And we'll just see how this goes. And trying to take any of

00:03:28.720 the pressure off. That's how I feel. Naked and afraid. Yeah, exactly. Naked and afraid.

00:03:34.780 which is exactly like the postpartum period exactly and when you really just are kind of

00:03:40.820 like in this haze of like everything's kind of going on around you and you're just trying to

00:03:46.180 get some peace where you can and then it also makes sense why you keep writing books because

00:03:50.680 then you forget right you well the same as having children right like if someone asked me what labor

00:03:56.580 felt like right now i'm like i don't know yeah like it wasn't that bad okay i'm like i remember

00:04:01.240 that it was fucking awful yeah but i also but i don't remember how like the specifics of awful 0.63

00:04:05.600 well it's like you can't it's like hypothetical pain right it's the same with like hypothetical 0.90

00:04:10.140 love like i remember when i was gonna have yeah my second and then my third like you just can't

00:04:16.200 imagine that love like you can't no you just can't guess about what that's gonna feel like

00:04:21.600 and so yeah you know that it's bad but you can't remember exactly what that feels like until you're

00:04:26.700 in it again and then you're like oh right this yeah exactly exactly well look here's the thing

00:04:34.760 you wrote a great book i love your book thank you i've loved following you and getting to be

00:04:40.500 friends with you during this journey because you you were on the show pretty much i think it was

00:04:45.440 like five years ago i think that was my first podcast that i was ever on oh my gosh i think

00:04:51.480 i think you popped my cherry i love that i think you did i think you were the one i had no idea

00:04:59.860 what i was doing like you were great it's a great episode never stopped me before i just jump and

00:05:06.140 then cross my fingers that's all we can do with life i mean honestly it was a great it was a great

00:05:11.200 episode it was when it was in the second season of under the influence when we started looking at

00:05:15.480 different kinds of influencing. And we were talking about the world of sober influencing

00:05:22.480 and you were this emerging force in that world. And it was eye opening and fascinating. And now

00:05:29.380 fast forward, you've got this book, The Sober Shift. And that's amazing. That's an amazing

00:05:36.160 journey. Thank you. It feels it. I mean, of course, it feels like just yesterday. And then

00:05:41.000 it feels like i have lived a thousand lifetimes since then but the idea that yeah that it did kind

00:05:47.540 of start with me just being like okay let me just you know see if this way that i'm thinking about

00:05:54.140 sobriety will resonate with anybody else this kind of not waiting for rock bottom and that

00:06:00.660 moderation's really hard does anyone else feel that way and that's how all of it started and i

00:06:06.180 just kind of kept following that they were like oh yeah more more more and I'm like okay I guess

00:06:12.940 I could keep talking about this and figuring out how I think about it so yeah it all started there

00:06:18.460 it all started there because I think at the time there was a real well and still now actually I

00:06:23.540 think that this is growing yeah there's such a hunger for hearing how real actual people

00:06:29.720 did hard things and do hard things. And being sober or even being sober curious is a really

00:06:37.980 hard thing. It's a big life shift. We live in a world where we are sold alcohol as culture.

00:06:44.540 Yes. Yes. Alcohol as culture. Alcohol as personality. Right. Like I was I was like a

00:06:51.940 party girl. That's who I was. And then so like like having this existential crisis when I became

00:06:58.800 a mom that was that was probably the biggest existential crisis and then when i stopped

00:07:03.980 drinking it was like hold on who am i yeah who am i and like this thing that has been in my life

00:07:10.980 since i'm 15 16 years old now i'm like oh i i'm navigating all of these things without that

00:07:18.640 and so yeah being able to kind of share i mean yes i i glamorize sobriety on instagram because

00:07:26.460 that's kind of i i think that when people think about sobriety they do kind of think of the

00:07:33.120 you know stone cold sober oh that it's boring yeah boring boring and not pretty and not glamorous

00:07:40.180 and like yeah like that you'll always just miss alcohol right or it's that it's like in the shadow

00:07:45.880 of alcohol and that if you don't drink you wish you quote unquote could and that's what i do in

00:07:52.300 the book. It's like, actually, no, like the other side of alcohol is so bright. And I tried to

00:07:58.380 convey that on my Instagram while also being like, yes, and it's also messy. And like, there are a

00:08:05.160 whole lot of feelings that you have to figure out how to feel without the substance that has been

00:08:10.200 helping you. Right. And so, yeah, trying to share all of it, including the bright side was really

00:08:15.920 important to me. Yeah. And I think you did a good job of it because what we know is that social

00:08:21.540 media also rewards the aspirational. Yes. Yeah. So making sobriety aspirational to talk about

00:08:29.080 that messaging is actually necessary if you're going to be, you know, trying, trying to get

00:08:35.620 people interested in this subject. Well, and that's the thing, you know, when I first came

00:08:40.180 on here and talked to you about being an influencer, I just have always thought like an

00:08:45.460 influencer. Like I'm a marketer. I love branding and really like presentation. I was a merchandise

00:08:53.300 manager and then a sales manager for Bloomingdale's. And so I'm very interested in how to make

00:08:58.900 something look good so it can sell. Right. So I think that knowing that I was going to, you know,

00:09:06.080 really quit drinking and lean into my sobriety in my personal life and myself. And when I started

00:09:12.080 realizing all of these like right things about sobriety, I was like, oh, my God, sobriety needs

00:09:18.240 a rebrand. Like sobriety has horrible marketing. Like this isn't the we need to get the word out.

00:09:25.140 And so then being able to just be like, yeah, I know how to make something look aspirational

00:09:30.100 because I had been doing that as an influencer for, you know, five to six years, maybe even

00:09:36.360 seven years before I shifted to sobriety. And so kind of, yeah, luring people in that way to be

00:09:43.240 like, hey, sobriety is actually really, really cool and can feel like freedom. And then I do

00:09:50.580 like on the podcast and it's like, OK, but let's talk about what really goes into it. Right. Because

00:09:55.440 there is a lot of like work, especially at the beginning and it's hard. But yeah, having that

00:10:00.900 kind of draw that aspirational twist to it i it was intentional for sure and you're so right like

00:10:07.840 i think it had to be yeah already has had really bad marketing yeah it's true it is it's kind of

00:10:15.280 like old white men have kind of just been like ah you will always you know be an alcoholic have

00:10:22.160 ruined everything ruined everything and shocking they screwed this one up too and that's like if

00:10:29.480 AA works for people. That's great. And that's great. It just. And it works for some people.

00:10:34.100 It worked for my parents. Exactly. It worked for my mom and my dad. Yes. Just kind of like

00:10:38.600 went along with it. But like it totally worked for her. It was her jam for so long. And that's

00:10:43.660 great. I know for me it kept me drinking because it didn't it doesn't feel. Yeah. It's not

00:10:49.680 aspirational. Right. It's not something that it kind of felt like a sentence like, oh, I hope I

00:10:55.180 don't have to do that and so instead of like yeah instead of the kind of ho-hum dark church

00:11:00.960 basement kind of thing i wanted to bring sobriety into the light and be like actually you guys

00:11:05.140 it's really it's really pretty damn great well and for today's like modern woman and mom frankly

00:11:15.100 yeah right because and i say this all the time like i do think that women we process things

00:11:23.100 differently and again aa is great for some for some women it totally works for them but also i

00:11:28.800 think we need alternatives to that and alternatives to that for mothers because i don't know there

00:11:35.960 there are aa meetings all day long my favorite aa meeting i think we talked about this is the one

00:11:41.260 that's in between um the golden globes and the after party oh my god yes it's literally

00:11:49.700 specifically held because so many folks in hollywood are in the program yeah there's one

00:11:55.620 between the oscars and the parties too um oh i love that that's great wow i want to go i see

00:12:02.520 that meeting i would go to so i mean i think we don't are you kidding when i was a gossip columnist

00:12:07.480 i was like i should go to that meeting i know i'm like well i was like stop being such a horrible

00:12:10.580 person um but yeah like i like i love i love i love the idea of that meeting i think about that

00:12:16.160 meeting a lot i didn't know that's fascinating i know i think you could do actually like a whole

00:12:20.740 short story just like centered around that that sing an hour that hour between the awards ceremony

00:12:26.900 i love all the behind the scenes of that stuff anyway you know i could go like all day on that

00:12:31.720 just like what are yeah where are they going are they changing like are they are they just going

00:12:37.020 right from that they go no no no they don't change they don't change no no no i've talked to people

00:12:42.500 that go and yeah they don't change they go everyone goes in their stuff and like there are

00:12:46.860 some people there because AA meetings are mostly public there are private AA meetings yeah but

00:12:51.980 yeah they just go in their gowns oh my god that's amazing and then there's like hair and makeup

00:12:57.300 afterwards yes there would have to be because there has to be some like yeah I'm sure there

00:13:02.000 might be like tears or something maybe not at every meeting but you know there's there's some

00:13:06.040 heavy stuff and so you can't just sit in your ground talk about that wow what a pivot too right

00:13:11.260 Right. That's it. Oh, my gosh. I'm fascinated.

00:13:15.160 But I think about that and I think about being a mom.

00:13:17.340 Yeah.

00:13:17.840 A mom who gets sober because I barely have time to work out. 1.00

00:13:22.720 I barely have time to read a book.

00:13:24.180 And so taking an hour to come into a meeting outside of the home.

00:13:29.540 Yeah.

00:13:29.940 It's tough.

00:13:30.460 That is tough.

00:13:31.640 I mean.

00:13:32.000 Right.

00:13:32.820 You know, I've been thinking a lot about this.

00:13:36.900 What really was required of me when I decided to quit drinking?

00:13:41.260 and it really was i i didn't go to meetings and i didn't um you know i i didn't do a a

00:13:48.080 i quit drinking in january 2020 and so you you know what came next like right right there wasn't

00:13:54.320 there wasn't anything but i i had to kind of do it in my own way which was like listening i listened

00:14:00.520 to so many books about sobriety and about alcohol and really like going on a quest to to learn the

00:14:06.740 truth about this thing that had been in my life for so long and in order to even do that like the

00:14:12.760 one air pod in and like the other ear open to make sure everyone else was alive I had to like

00:14:19.140 claw my way to to the top of the list to be like okay you know I had a five-year-old a two and a

00:14:25.380 half-year-old and a three-month-old and to just say like okay you guys have to it just has to be

00:14:31.020 good enough over here like we're not going to thrive that's fine but i need to do this and in

00:14:36.940 order to do that it had to be like super intentional and i look back now and i'm like dude

00:14:42.280 how did i do that because it was required i had to but that it was like a radical

00:14:48.140 it was a radical movement for me just for me to say like actually i need to be okay right now i

00:14:55.580 need to be at the top of the list because i'm not we're never at the top of the list

00:14:59.800 we're literally never at the top of the list never i'm getting better i'm getting better

00:15:04.660 at moving myself up i'm like i'm really working on it how do you like how do you do it

00:15:09.680 you know i'm trying to stop feeling guilty yeah when i'm not doing things with my kids

00:15:17.180 yeah i'm trying to also tell tell my kids i'm like that's actually not something i want to do

00:15:21.860 it was funny we were at uh just picnic in the park across the street from the house uh the other day

00:15:28.100 with other families and other little kids and one of my kids was like play soccer with us play

00:15:33.500 soccer with us I'm like I don't want to right now you're with 19 other children yeah and I want to

00:15:38.820 talk to other grown-ups and you don't need me this second so no and it's like oh okay cool

00:15:46.540 yes see and just saying like I think that that's so it's just necessary for us as moms to be like

00:15:55.940 okay I might feel guilty about that for me like mom guilt is kind of just a nudge that it's like

00:16:00.820 hey you care a lot so it's kind of like mom guilt's kind of I don't know for me I look at it

00:16:07.060 like okay you're on the right track because you actually care about you know your kids and like

00:16:11.640 but it doesn't it doesn't mean I have to listen to it and so being like yeah no I don't want to

00:16:17.820 do this thing my middle right now is on this huge like and you know she's my middle kid so I have to

00:16:24.380 like make sure that i carve out time for her too because there's so much a middle kid is so

00:16:31.420 so much and she's on she's doing this thing where she's starting to it's like my worst nightmare

00:16:39.080 because she's starting to keep track of me oh yep same same with my middle kid and how much i am

00:16:47.520 you know if we were at like the trampoline park and she's like look at me watch me watch me and

00:16:52.320 then I like talked to another mom for a second and she was like you only watched four times you

00:16:58.220 know and then she like breaks down and then so she is guilting me like heavy and so that has been

00:17:05.660 that's been tough and that's just been within the last like month that she's she's eight so she's

00:17:10.940 like really like turned up this thing of like hey I'm clocking you and I'm looking to see yeah how

00:17:17.840 much you care and how much you notice me and so that's oof that's i'm terrified i know i'm

00:17:25.780 terrified of my middle kid oh my god i seriously it's catching me off it it's catching me a little

00:17:32.020 off guard because she was like very sunshiny and like same yes same and then now and now they're

00:17:37.900 keeping she's keeping a tally keeping track i will tell you when we were climbing mount fuji

00:17:42.860 last week i mean just like you drop that there like it's nothing just drop it in yeah just drop

00:17:48.400 it in humble brag yeah just drop when we were climbing mount fuji uh there was a mom there

00:17:53.220 with three girls by herself because the dad stayed home with the two-year-old um boy at the hotel

00:17:58.520 and the girls were 12 10 and 8 oh wow and the girls were so well behaved and then of course

00:18:05.820 they were like we're canadian and i'm like this makes sense yeah yeah obviously yes and so yeah

00:18:12.420 And then the two, the oldest and the youngest, at one point, were like, yeah, I think we're good.

00:18:17.980 We're just going to go back to the hut.

00:18:19.100 We don't need to go all the way up.

00:18:19.960 We don't want to finish.

00:18:20.820 And the middle was like, oh, I will climb to the top of this mountain.

00:18:23.880 Yes.

00:18:24.760 Yes.

00:18:25.140 And I was like, that would be my girl.

00:18:26.520 That's it.

00:18:26.780 She'd be like, mm-hmm. 0.87

00:18:28.080 Yes. 1.00

00:18:28.680 Yep.

00:18:28.960 I'm constantly proving herself.

00:18:30.840 Totally.

00:18:31.880 And then looking to us to be like, hey, do you see—

00:18:35.100 You are the best.

00:18:35.840 Yeah.

00:18:36.000 You are the best.

00:18:36.540 And I see you.

00:18:37.380 Do you notice me?

00:18:38.200 Yes.

00:18:38.500 Yes, I do.

00:18:39.400 Yes.

00:18:40.240 Oh.

00:18:40.400 Yeah, despite the fact that she gets more attention than anyone in her family.

00:18:43.580 I know, because I'm always like, I want to make sure, right?

00:18:46.300 I want to make sure. 0.89

00:18:47.000 Overcome this middle kid thing. 1.00

00:18:48.840 And then I'm like, oh, man. 1.00

00:18:50.920 That's the actual worst.

00:18:52.700 I know.

00:18:53.200 The actual worst.

00:18:53.540 And so then you put that on top of, like, just inherent mom guilt, right?

00:18:58.560 Of, like, I could be doing more.

00:19:00.940 Like, I could.

00:19:01.640 There's always more.

00:19:02.780 There's always more.

00:19:03.680 There's more for everything and everyone.

00:19:06.220 I know.

00:19:06.600 I mean, I'm trying to make my mantra do less.

00:19:08.800 Same.

00:19:09.220 my like parenting motto is is half-ass whole heart because oh i love that can we get t-shirts

00:19:15.560 yes right because it is like i i i want to do the important stuff with my whole heart like i

00:19:23.240 unconditional love you can screw up and and i will love you you can you know i'll i'll show you how

00:19:31.000 to i'll teach you how to feel your feelings which i was never taught you know we'll welcome all the

00:19:36.080 feelings here we will um just all of that all of that like foundational stuff but like the half-assed

00:19:43.460 stuff is like yeah i'm probably gonna only watch you jump on this trampoline like twice thrice if

00:19:49.740 you're lucky but then i've lost interest because i it's boring it's this is a boring thing this is

00:19:55.040 very boring and i'm a grown-ass woman like i don't need to do this and so i'm trying to just

00:20:01.220 yeah i'm trying to remind myself that she doesn't see the big picture of like actually

00:20:07.820 like you're here and you're at the trampoline park that is enough and like you i'm consistent

00:20:14.100 right like that's one thing sobriety has given me like above and beyond i think is just like

00:20:19.880 i'm consistently me like no matter where i am or who i'm with or at a party if if they're you know

00:20:28.520 anywhere like they can count on me to be consistent no matter what and i think that that i hope at

00:20:35.520 least she'll look back and be like okay yeah yeah that's seeping in there that's that's hopefully

00:20:40.620 like getting in their bones somehow somehow we'll see we'll see tbd tbd yeah all right let's take it

00:20:47.620 let's take a quick break and then i want to talk about your journey getting sober um like because

00:20:53.120 you didn't hit a rock bottom per se so how you decided to do that and then the bigger how you

00:21:02.500 physically actually did it yeah okay we are back talk to me about the day that you woke up and

00:21:16.940 you're like all right not for me anymore so I had just had my third baby he was three months old

00:21:22.720 And my husband and I went to this like fancy pants party on the North Shore of Chicago.

00:21:27.460 And I it was the first time I was drinking in like a year because I was pregnant and then I was breastfeeding.

00:21:32.880 I was still breastfeeding, but I was like, you know what, I'm going to drink.

00:21:35.520 It was bottomless champagne.

00:21:37.180 And I blacked out for the first time in years.

00:21:41.420 And I woke up at like some ungodly hour, like nine or ten.

00:21:47.600 Right.

00:21:47.940 In the morning, which is insane for a mom of a three month old baby.

00:21:52.720 Oh, totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, you know, it hit me that I had nursed him in the night, but I didn't remember it. And so I had nursed him in a blackout. And, you know, that shame of that was just it felt unbearable to me.

00:22:10.620 And so while I always say I didn't hit rock bottom, which what I mean is from society's standards from the outside, I didn't overtly lose much to alcohol, right? I didn't get a DUI. I didn't lose custody of my kids. My marriage was intact. Like, I didn't lose my job.

00:22:28.960 but that shame of knowing that I had nursed him you know and just picturing that that to me felt

00:22:38.420 like well I don't I'm not gonna wait to lose more than this right to lose that what I had lost and

00:22:45.800 so I told my husband I was done and then yeah I just I was terrified because I didn't know what

00:22:52.000 that meant i was like what i'm done what does that even mean it was just this like clarity in that

00:23:00.980 moment just in that exact moment because after that it was a lot of doubts and the spirals and

00:23:07.100 the questioning but i i just kept coming back to how i felt on that like just that exact moment

00:23:15.820 and i was literally like tethered to that moment for probably the first at least six months of my

00:23:21.240 sobriety. Anytime I kept thinking like, well, I wasn't, you know, quote unquote, that bad. And

00:23:28.080 isn't this drastic? And, you know, what if no one invites me anymore? Is this forever? All of these

00:23:34.820 questions that come up, I just kept coming back to that moment and how I felt knowing what had

00:23:41.880 happened and just the clarity I had then. And yeah, then I went on this like quest to be like,

00:23:48.120 okay, let me listen to every book I can that'll tell me about alcohol. Let me learn how I've used

00:23:54.480 it in my life. Because when we grow up in a society and are taught not to talk about alcohol

00:24:01.220 and our relationship with it and our doubts about our drinking, because if we do, then we have to

00:24:07.400 report to AA, right? And then we do feel like we lose something. I hadn't ever felt free to really

00:24:16.140 look at how I felt about my drinking and the times when I was a party girl and, you know,

00:24:23.200 drank too much and then went home with a guy that I would have never gone home with.

00:24:28.320 And all of that shame that was like mold in the basement. And so over that time, then I was, I

00:24:34.380 just very slowly was like, okay, let me see what alcohol is, how I have used it in my life

00:24:43.460 to cope and escape and numb and conform and belong and connect and all of these things

00:24:48.200 and then what actually happened like did it deliver let me let me go back and so it was

00:24:55.120 kind of like a systematic way to just untangle all of these the ways that alcohol had affected

00:25:02.960 me in my life while also then just figuring out all of the adult stuff that I didn't know

00:25:11.340 like how to feel I was in therapy which helped my mom's a therapist which also helped and I was

00:25:18.560 really talking to my husband a lot about it but other than that you know we're in a pandemic so

00:25:23.040 I wasn't going to meetings I wasn't like I didn't have a support system to talk me through this

00:25:28.460 but I was kind of that I think I liked it that way because then I was able to formulate the way

00:25:34.980 that I wanted to think about my sobriety and how I wanted my sobriety to feel and sound like.

00:25:41.600 And that's really what the book is, like that it it it really deconstructs what we've been taught to

00:25:49.660 what we've been taught about alcohol. And then in the second half, it's like the building and

00:25:55.940 and and how I really built this full sober life. Talk to me a little bit about all of the myths

00:26:04.620 and the culture that you learned that we'd been taught about alcohol.

00:26:08.240 I mean, you and I have talked a lot before that, like, I'm constantly wrestling with

00:26:11.940 what my relationship looks like with alcohol.

00:26:15.460 Like, I drink on less occasions than I ever have.

00:26:19.380 Yeah.

00:26:19.740 And then when I do drink, I drink more than I ever have.

00:26:22.540 Right.

00:26:23.400 Well, and, you know, I love when you and I talk about alcohol because I love the fact

00:26:28.020 that you can talk openly about alcohol even while you're drinking it.

00:26:31.400 I think that that is a such an important thing to be able to just talk openly about the substance while it's still in our life so that it's not this like shame based thing that we have to wait until we lose this privilege or we're forced to stop.

00:26:47.600 Right. And so it's just to be able to say, like, yeah, the reason that probably when you're you're drinking less, but when you do drink, you're drinking more.

00:26:56.880 that is the nature of an addictive substance right the drinking less thing totally probably

00:27:02.700 yeah probably hints to some moderation rules that you might have about you know i'm not going to

00:27:08.840 drink whatever you know we all have the moderation rules if we have this addictive substance in our

00:27:14.960 life on a consistent basis there has to be some control around it right and people it's hard it's

00:27:22.300 It's hard to have control around it when we talk about it like it's a taboo.

00:27:26.220 Right.

00:27:27.220 And if you have any concerns about your drinking, you may be an alcoholic.

00:27:33.940 Right.

00:27:34.240 You're shamed.

00:27:35.320 You're shamed.

00:27:36.420 Whereas saying, hey, this isn't making me feel good in this situation.

00:27:39.940 And why?

00:27:41.040 And what if I did this?

00:27:42.880 I mean, yeah, it's a really hard thing to ever say that it's not making you feel good.

00:27:48.920 Because then you're like, is everyone going to think that I have a problem?

00:27:51.620 How will they think about me? Right. Because if I do. Exactly. And because that's what we've been taught. Right. It's the drinker, not the drink. And this is this is the biggest, just most brilliant marketing on alcohol on big alcohol's part is to put the onus on the drinker instead of the drink.

00:28:12.400 Like, you wouldn't ever put the onus on the smoker instead of the cigarette.

00:28:17.720 You wouldn't say, like, well, how can you not have cigarettes?

00:28:20.940 You know, how can you smoke cigarettes and become addicted?

00:28:23.500 What's wrong with you?

00:28:24.600 Very clear that cigarettes are addictive.

00:28:26.640 Same with meth.

00:28:28.040 Like, we aren't like, what?

00:28:29.680 You can't moderate meth?

00:28:32.020 Alcohol is in that category.

00:28:34.120 It's that addictive.

00:28:35.280 but the onus has been on us as the drinker to say like you know you need to be able to drink

00:28:42.140 this thing responsibly and the thing about moderation is it's not hard because it doesn't

00:28:48.760 work it's hard because it works it works when we have our willpower and and everybody's willpower

00:28:55.520 you know the threshold is different for your willpower some people like joe you probably have

00:29:01.340 very like high willpower you're so high functioning around this thing right and then when it comes in

00:29:08.940 it just does its alcohol thing I mean it's just the substance doing its thing changing your brain

00:29:14.260 the minute you drink it you're that brain is different than the brain that you had when you

00:29:20.140 when you made the the rules about you know my rules were like I will only have two I will drink

00:29:25.240 water in between. I will make sure, you know, to eat a meal. I will not forget to eat food after I

00:29:31.600 drink. Well, it's just a different brain that you're working with then. And now instead, then,

00:29:37.840 you know, you wake up on those times when you drank more than you wanted to. And we just go

00:29:43.340 in on ourselves. What is wrong with me? Why can't I drink this thing like everyone else can? First

00:29:49.500 of all you are drinking it like everyone else is um there's not like the the whole idea that there

00:29:56.200 are normal drinkers um a normal drinker is some is this pattern of like trying to get this right

00:30:04.720 maybe sometimes over drinking keeping it in line doubting your relationship it's the unicorn

00:30:10.980 drinker which is like that kind of one and done or just take it or leave it really doesn't you

00:30:17.440 know it doesn't you just don't ever think about it that's that's a unicorn and we know that's a

00:30:23.440 unicorn because alcohol is everywhere alcohol is at a one-year-old birthday party alcohol is at a

00:30:28.700 baby shower alcohol is at a water park like if if the the majority of people were take it or leave

00:30:35.480 it drinkers we wouldn't be so obsessed with alcohol as a society absolutely absolutely but

00:30:42.360 We do not.

00:30:43.320 We just never frame it like that, to be honest.

00:30:46.040 Yeah.

00:30:46.060 We really and truly do not.

00:30:49.860 And much, much to our detriment.

00:30:52.940 So you started posting about your journey online.

00:30:56.100 What was the reaction to that like?

00:30:58.760 So I started posting it and I was, you know, I was nervous.

00:31:04.760 I started the Sober Mom Life Instagram account separately because of this.

00:31:08.860 Because on what it used to be my kind of suite.

00:31:11.420 it's now Suzanne where I but on my main account you know I had collabs I had an agent I had like

00:31:18.340 it was it was a money-making influencer account and I was I was worried I was worried to bring

00:31:26.800 it over I kept getting good response on the sober mom life I've I thought I mean I've gotten far

00:31:32.340 and away more response about sobriety than anything else but I was still nervous to bring

00:31:38.260 it to kind of my mainstream account right because they the same questions like oh my god are they

00:31:44.860 gonna say oh I wonder how bad it got are they going to then you know look at me differently

00:31:51.020 I knew that I would have to get rid of my agent and the collaborations would dry up which they did

00:31:56.500 it was kind of me just starting over and saying like I know you guys are here for like cute you

00:32:03.300 know cream sweaters and like heels but well boots not heels um but i do i do like your cream sweaters

00:32:13.100 though me too they're like my they're like my children i love my cream sweaters but yeah i was

00:32:21.300 like i i think i think it's time to let you in on this thing and then i mean since then you know

00:32:26.380 i've seen the most growth that i ever more than i ever thought i would and and it it's blown up

00:32:33.780 um because i think women specifically and moms really needed a space to to be able to hear that

00:32:45.620 they aren't the problem that motherhood is hard and that alcohol makes it harder because you know 1.00

00:32:51.500 scroll instagram for like five minutes and you're gonna see you know these disgusting like mommy 0.97

00:32:57.080 wine culture reels of trying to convince you that alcohol makes motherhood not only that it makes it

00:33:03.520 easier but that it's required for this thing and um while they're doing that they're not feeling

00:33:11.780 that in their life right it makes you not care for a little bit but then it also causes a whole

00:33:17.220 many destructive things. And so just, I think moms were yearning for to be understood and just

00:33:24.600 to see someone who, you know, maybe, maybe allowed them to look at their relationship

00:33:32.240 with alcohol without shame and judgment. Which is a hard thing when you're a woman

00:33:38.200 in this world yeah yes it can feel impossible right it can i mean yeah it's it was a heavy

00:33:50.920 lift for sure it was a heavy lift all right let's take one more break and when we get back i want to

00:33:56.540 Talk about what your life is like on the other side of drinking.

00:34:03.580 Okay, we are back.

00:34:09.440 Talk to me.

00:34:10.120 So how long have you been sober now?

00:34:11.960 I've been sober for over five and a half years.

00:34:15.600 Okay.

00:34:15.940 And what is life like now on the other side of it?

00:34:18.400 Oh, my gosh.

00:34:20.240 Life is so much more.

00:34:22.860 I want to say it's it's it's more full than it was before but it's also it's just here's what

00:34:32.420 I want to say life is life I think that when when I glamorize sobriety on on Instagram sometimes

00:34:40.980 you could throw people off in sobriety when like shit still happens and things still feel hard

00:34:47.700 right and that can feel like we're doing it wrong life is still gonna be life life is still

00:34:53.420 gonna throw stuff at us it's just that i have changed in in my life and now i am able to

00:35:01.580 trust myself in a way that i've never trusted myself i'm able to count on myself to not only

00:35:11.080 do hard things and just do things that I'd never imagined I could do, but feel the things that I

00:35:20.100 thought that I couldn't feel. Like, you know, I lost my dad over a year into my sobriety. And

00:35:25.660 relying on myself, being able just without anything, I don't need a substance to blur

00:35:36.360 or to blunt any edge like I'm okay to be able to really feel that in myself has been it's offered

00:35:45.160 a healing that I I I couldn't get I don't think if I continued to invite alcohol in it's it's me

00:35:53.460 really going back to you know 15 16 year old me when I started drinking and I'm saying like hey

00:36:00.600 we got we got kind of sidetracked for a little and and we started counting on something other

00:36:06.640 than ourself come here I'm inviting you back in and like she's here to see that we can do this

00:36:13.760 without alcohol and that for me even though life is still life that idea that I get to heal us

00:36:24.460 her and me. I get to invite her in and she gets to teach me what we like to do before alcohol came 0.89

00:36:31.300 in. And I get to teach her everything I've learned since. It's just like, it just, a glass of wine

00:36:40.540 on Friday doesn't, it would never compare for me. I love hearing that. And your husband also

00:36:50.800 joined you on this but not right away right like how did that work yes so he was yeah he i did not

00:36:56.360 ask him if he would stop drinking with me he continued to drink i write about this in the book

00:37:01.060 like the boundaries that i set his drinking wasn't heavy or anything um but then just over like a year

00:37:08.120 and a half ago he was like you know i think i'm gonna commit to one year without alcohol and i

00:37:14.020 inside i was like oh my god yay but outside i was like yeah no problem bro whatever cool you do yeah

00:37:19.480 yeah whatever I don't care and he did and he started to see you know all of these things

00:37:26.760 that we see when we go an extended period of time without alcohol and then even when a year

00:37:32.340 when he was at his year he was like yeah I think I might you know I might go back I might have a

00:37:38.880 couple and then he just never did and then we were in Los um or no we were in New Orleans and

00:37:44.180 we saw he kind of got to see our friends wasted um and which is which is a very specific thing

00:37:52.660 as a sober person seeing someone wasted when you are just very sober um and he was like yeah i'm

00:37:59.320 never going back i'm i'm never going back and so he got there his own way it's cool because i

00:38:05.680 consider him like the guinea pig of the book that i just kind of got to i didn't harp i just

00:38:12.120 influenced in my in my silent way through everything that I was learning and and how I

00:38:19.600 was shifting everything in my perspective. So he kind of was the guinea pig. And yeah, he's he's

00:38:25.900 loving it. I love that for him. I truly, truly love that for him. In the book, you include 10

00:38:33.040 mocktail recipes. Yeah. Which one which one is your favorite? Oh, my gosh. Which one is my I think

00:38:39.220 anything with heat. I think there's a rosemary grapefruit one in there that's good. There's a

00:38:45.640 spicy mojito one in there that's really good. I don't like the alcohol removed. The ones that

00:38:54.200 really taste like alcohol, but the spirits are removed. So those aren't in there. I just don't

00:38:59.040 like the taste of that. So these are just more complex flavors and mocktails. And the cool thing

00:39:05.220 about a mocktail is you're gonna drink one like you're not gonna like you're not gonna go to town

00:39:12.340 on like five mocktails because they're not addictive and so just to have like one really

00:39:17.720 special drink there's a cool christmas one or um holiday one in there that's like has pine needles

00:39:22.860 in it which sounds weird you guys but it's good it's kind of you know if you think about it gin

00:39:28.500 kind of tastes like pine needles so yeah doesn't doesn't a lot of gin have pine needles because i

00:39:34.360 feel like it tastes it must have pine because it has juniper it has juniper which i think is pine

00:39:39.560 okay yeah there am i wrong i don't know i think i'm making things up well we're not gonna fact

00:39:44.000 check it but it sounds right to me um but yeah i love i i just love a special drink i mean normally

00:39:50.040 i'm i'm drinking sparkling water and that's totally fine with me but yeah to have you know

00:39:55.300 to have a little a nice little special drink is good my i was just i was just thumbing through

00:40:00.520 your your mocktails um because i i have terrible adhd uh yeah i like spice i like a little bit of

00:40:07.460 heat yes in my mocktail yes yeah i need something that has like some complex stuff so i'm not just

00:40:12.420 like downing it exactly i like you know i've been very into the phony negronis oh yes yes those are

00:40:19.900 great they're great they taste like negronis yeah totally fully fully yes because it's the bitters

00:40:25.340 it's just the bitters to be honest see and then it's all of the flavor and none of the shame

00:40:30.000 which is like kind of the best yeah well my hangovers are different my hangovers are also

00:40:36.140 and we've talked about this before my anxiety yes is the primary symptom of my hangovers i have

00:40:44.640 massive anxiety the next day my heart is beating like crazy and yeah i'm a person who deals with

00:40:53.360 my anxiety by taking zoloft it works for me and yet drinking erases all of the impact of zoloft

00:41:01.000 for at least 24 hours yes yes and and that's scientific that's nothing that's not like you

00:41:07.160 that's not user error right that's like the cortisol spiking that's the the dopamine and

00:41:12.300 the serotonin levels totally plummeting which is why we wake up at like 3 a.m being like

00:41:17.040 why am i shaking and why why is every single bad decision i've ever made spiraling through my head

00:41:22.780 like all of that and then and it's it lasts it can that impact of just the the dysregulated

00:41:30.640 dopamine and serotonin levels last for days and so even when you're not drinking you're you're

00:41:36.420 still not getting joy out of things that you would normally get joy out of say if alcohol wasn't in

00:41:42.140 your life or when you were a kid right which why i think sobriety is does feel have a like a child

00:41:47.760 like feel to me because it does feel like oh my god remember before this thing came in like what

00:41:54.420 I used to love doing um yeah that that then it you're just more balanced so that you can find

00:42:00.880 joy just in like everyday stuff but that is not what we see when we look at social media

00:42:06.480 either um unless we're looking on I mean honestly your account does such a good job

00:42:11.980 of making sobriety look aspirational because wine culture is very infused in mom social media.

00:42:20.120 Yeah. It's crazy. And when you look at why that is, right? It's not accidental. It's not like

00:42:30.400 that some mom just figured out that wine made motherhood easier. It's a targeted approach. 0.52

00:42:37.200 It's a targeted marketing directed straight toward moms from big alcohol because they need to get us addicted. 1.00

00:42:44.140 They need new market share and we are in the crosshairs.

00:42:48.020 It becomes like if you are a feminist and you're not pissed off at how big alcohol has not only targeted us, but really, I think, overlooked how savvy we can be as moms.

00:43:06.420 Because what they're saying is if we make the label pink, if we put flowers on it, and if we just make it look pretty, they'll drink it and they won't ask any questions.

00:43:18.220 And they'll drink it.

00:43:18.900 I kind of think that's why rosé was created.

00:43:20.620 Yes, totally.

00:43:22.620 Again, things that I'm not fact-checking.

00:43:24.820 No, I'm just, I'm co-signing.

00:43:26.940 um yeah it's it's once you dive into that and just how targeted we are um i mean it it should

00:43:39.420 piss you off really pisses me off yeah no i mean i i hate being marketed to and sold to

00:43:46.060 about anything yes literally everything so yeah and i think it is even if you're a person if you're 0.95

00:43:51.820 person who is going to keep drinking who enjoys drinking cool good on you but like i do think

00:43:58.380 it's something we should that's worth everyone talking about yes of how are you influenced

00:44:03.180 to do these things exactly and it's it is like that it's with everything right it's not i'm not

00:44:11.040 saying like you need to you need to find this out and then completely stop drinking i i think it's

00:44:16.900 easier to stop drinking than it is to moderate like it's just an easier way but just to be

00:44:23.200 cognizant of like oh I'm being I'm being marketed to right now I'm being targeted you know when

00:44:30.560 White Claw sponsors a yoga event just to just to like pause for a second and realize the

00:44:38.200 ridiculousness of that um it's just there's a difference between drinking with your eyes

00:44:45.340 open and drinking with the blindfold on and i think big alcohol has like laughed all the way

00:44:50.800 to the bank um in the last you know decades of us drinking with the blindfold on and i think that's

00:44:59.020 it's slipping and they're feeling it you know and i think it it needs to absolutely absolutely i mean

00:45:08.400 I just eyes wide open is is my mantra these days frankly like I want to see how everyone is kind

00:45:17.120 of hoodwinking us yes at all times yes and you're you're such a you're so good at that at calling 0.99

00:45:23.480 that out you know with with the I mean the trad wives for sure like the way that you do that I 0.58

00:45:30.680 always anytime I see your content pop up I'm like yes I love this and then I think about you know

00:45:36.280 how that's so true with alcohol because there's so many parallels between this like trad wife

00:45:42.220 thing that were presented and with alcohol and how how it's presented i think and how it's sold

00:45:47.400 to us how it is sold to us how we're influenced how it is sold to us exactly exactly all right

00:45:53.780 tell everyone where they can find you more of your content and your wonderful book okay yes

00:45:58.460 come to on instagram i'm at suzanne where i and then um all of the like tour events and everything

00:46:05.360 like that is at suzannewerey.com and the book is The Silver Shift and you can get it wherever

00:46:10.180 books are sold in all format. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you, Jo. Thanks for

00:46:16.160 having me.

00:46:35.360 Thank you.

00:47:05.360 Thank you.

Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - September 30, 2025

The Bright Side of Not Drinking

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