00:06:39.820and they will tell you this. It's been happening for a while, but I think it's very telling right1.00
00:06:44.620now that people will say it out loud, that they'll be like, oh yeah, I'm not participating.
00:06:49.200I'm checking out. Why vote? It doesn't matter. And these are smart people. I went to Penn. It's
00:06:55.420a fancy school. And these are my friends that went to Penn with me. They are doctors. They
00:07:00.000are lawyers. They are academics. And they're like, I'm so burnt out. Everyone is awful.
00:07:05.140Every choice is awful. I'm checking out. Do you see this?
00:07:09.140I see it. I feel it. I understand it. I mean, I think there's a compounding three different
00:07:15.580things that are happening. Thing one is everyone's lives are getting seemingly more difficult,
00:07:22.060more chaotic. I will say the day that I got diagnosed with cancer, I was like, you know
00:07:27.640what? I'm going to stop consuming an hour of news every morning. I was like, that's the thing that
00:07:33.360I got to give up right now because I have too much on my plate. I can't deal. And so I get it.
00:07:39.140Like, if you have kids you got to feed, got to take them to soccer, and now you got to do summer camp or you got to keep them entertained all day.
00:07:52.420Thing two is, like, the candidates at the top of the ticket, and there's some words that are doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence.
00:07:59.900The candidates at the top of the ticket are not inspiring.
00:08:32.740if you are inspired to like be scared of the autocracy he's going to bring us all into um
00:08:38.420and then like the third thing is the social media of it all and the infrastructure that has been
00:08:43.140created that is like outrage content uh the thing that matters is driving emotions making everyone
00:08:49.540really upset and that is what works on socials and so that is what you see on top of the fact
00:08:55.400that conservatives are putting in millions and millions of dollars to try to get us notwithstanding
00:09:02.620the Russia of it all, but like, you know, trying to make us exhausted and tap out and think like
00:09:08.760government is broken and all of that. And I will say, I was listening to a presentation last week0.72
00:09:14.500on what factors predict someone who is going to vote for a Democrat this year. And one of the
00:09:23.000most important factors is trust in government, a belief that like fundamentally government is a
00:09:29.320good thing and when you completely degrade the sense that like government has value that's what
00:09:36.540makes someone a republican voter these days and right you see that i see that because you know
00:09:41.640it's it's very interesting i um we go to the cat skulls a lot and i've got my neighbors are pretty
00:09:47.280split you know dems republicans and i talk to my republican neighbors because of course you have to
00:09:52.200talk to all the people like i also do not like the split of like the us versus them i think it's so
00:09:56.340effing toxic um and they say things to me like i don't like 98 of what donald trump does but the
00:10:02.940government's broken and it's not working right now and so eff it but now blow it all up but now
00:10:08.920i'm hearing the same thing from the democrats and that's what's scary to me yeah i mean i think
00:10:16.140what has been really interesting when i agree have conversations with everybody um a big part of the
00:10:22.780book not people who are like wait we have we haven't said the name of your book my book's
00:10:28.900coming out very very soon democracy and retrograde and a big part of democracy and retrograde is
00:10:34.320making the argument like we need to bring back having conversations about politics and there's
00:10:39.980a lot of lot of reasons why that's incredibly valuable for the health of democracy and
00:10:44.600communities uh and also all of us like all of our well-beings but one of the interesting things that
00:10:51.260I've been having conversations with people who are, you know, far on the left and they're very
00:10:57.620much like blow it up. And then I say like, okay, and replace it with what? And they're like, I
00:11:01.720don't know. But I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Or they, or they, or they want a utopia. That's
00:11:06.700the thing. They're like, I want a checklist of these 12 things. And if a candidate doesn't
00:11:11.180fulfill all of those things, then I'm out. I'm out. I must have all the things. Right. And I
00:11:17.640expect the um the the the democrats i'm doing air quotes i know i know i wish there were better
00:11:24.660words okay uh you know who are is this mythical group of leaders who as someone who has been very
00:11:31.860involved in democratic leadership i'm like this this cabal does not exist um but they're like
00:11:37.260the democrats need to pick better candidates and i'm like have to be honest like there's no group
00:11:44.080of people picking and choosing right like at the end of the day there's no secret society that's
00:11:48.300like underground wearing robes being like we anoint this person you know joe biden decided to
00:11:55.580run again and incumbency advantage is such that you no one is gonna run against an incumbent
00:12:00.740president it's just like statistically would be a ridiculous choice for anyone to make um and
00:12:08.220but like you know at the end of the day like the democrats were it like we are the like the
00:12:12.840Democrats are the people who vote for Democrats and they are also all of the candidates all the
00:12:18.380way down the ballot, like down to not dog catchers usually a nonpartisan position, but school boards.
00:12:24.780Is it really? Is it really? Does dog catcher usually go nonpartisan?
00:12:28.680Yeah. But school boards have historically been nonpartisan. And what we are seeing
00:12:33.480is one of the Moms for Liberty's agenda items is to turn it into partisan positions.0.68
00:12:40.340Yes, yes, yes. Can you explain Moms for Liberty to our audience who does not know what Moms for
00:12:45.980Liberty is? And I want to say right up front, because I know tangentially what they are. I
00:12:50.720could use a deep dive on all this stuff. You are my expert, okay? But I will say it's a good name.
00:12:56.300It's a good name. That side, the other side is very good at branding because who doesn't like
00:13:02.540Liberty? And oh, you're a mom, which means you care for kids. So I'm just saying good name.0.95
00:13:06.040Um, Moms for Liberty is really, really fascinating. So they are something that really blew up during the pandemic. And I will say like, they're a little bit on the downfall right now. But I have thoughts on that. Moms for Liberty is a conservative group that is focused on quote unquote, parents rights. Now, parents rights is the right of a specific group of parents, which a with a particular ideology that is, quote unquote, Bible based, right?0.99
00:13:33.680It's anti-anyone who is not essentially pro-Christian nationalism, who doesn't want schools that reflect a very, very narrow perspective.
00:13:44.080And so that is the rights, the parents who want, who get rights in the parents' rights movement.
00:13:53.340You know, they have the optics of being a grassroots organization.
00:13:57.580If you go on their website, they're like, we have all these groups and, and all of this stuff. And this is about just like moms coming together. When you look behind the scenes, you used to just be able to go in and look at all of their chapter resources, which was fascinating for a number of years.
00:14:11.500there were actually very few members of most groups and the reality is it was a
00:14:15.760highly skilled comms operation and they were getting tons and tons of hits because the media
00:14:21.380loves to cover contrarian specialty things and these like moms that were anti-mask were a really
00:14:26.960good thing to cover during the pandemic and they they went into schools and they tried to convert
00:14:35.880schools now i'll say like one of the convert schools to be like anti-mask banning books about
00:14:41.060LGBT kids, banning books about slavery because they're just protecting their kids, being anti-vax,
00:14:46.120like this whole panoply of things. A big thing about Moms for Liberty is that they create1.00
00:14:52.740community for the moms. So their target audience, which is Instagram, moms on Instagram, Instagram
00:14:58.780has always been a key component of their strategy, is women who are traditionally not talked to in
00:15:05.660the political process. Stay at home moms have been told like your place is as a wife and mother1.00
00:15:09.940and you aren't able to you know get a job or do anything and then you know within the context
00:15:15.580within the frame of their role as mother as a quote-unquote mama bear they're then given the
00:15:20.460opportunity to become politically active and i think in not only politically active but essentially
00:15:25.440part of an mlm right like there's one there's one mom's for liberty group in south carolina that i
00:15:30.840follow and they have a gala every year around um i think it's fourth of july and honestly it looks
00:15:36.480really fun. I mean, I looked that up, girl. That looks fun. And I've got to say, everything that
00:15:42.100I'm hearing in this is that it brought identity, that it brought community, that it made people
00:15:50.020feel purposeful and important again. And that's not nothing, okay? That is not nothing. People
00:15:54.900want to be seen, heard, empowered, right? And that's what they've done. And they have access
00:16:02.900to a lot of money so the thing is moms for liberty was started by this like connected couple in
00:16:09.480florida republican politics now a problem has happened which is the husband who by all accounts
00:16:15.080was to a significant degree the brains behind the operation uh i think he has allegedly committed
00:16:21.020sexual assault uh every time every time man yeah and um so that being said there's a lot of other
00:16:32.000groups that have been hanging in the wings waiting and i think when moms for liberty started crashing
00:16:38.040i think it was in the fall people were like great parents rights movement is done and i was like no
00:16:42.380no no no no no no not only there's a bunch of more conservative groups that have existed for a while
00:16:48.160there's like moms for america lots of anti-choice groups but turning point usa who is the group i
00:16:54.160am singularly obsessed with uh created a mom's vertical and they are taking the comms component
00:17:00.480of Moms for Liberty and folding it into their massive messaging machine. So it's not, it's not
00:17:06.400like gone by any means. Right. And I mean, just again, to underscore it, conservatives, the right,
00:17:14.160we're saying that for lack of a better word, mainly groups, you know, driven by evangelical
00:17:20.940far right patriarchal Christians, they are very good at motivating mothers. And I'm just going to
00:17:27.560say it, I do not think the other side, the left, is very good at mobilizing mothers in the same way.
00:17:33.460And that's a problem. You know, the right has a lot of things going for it, right? Like,
00:17:40.300especially people who are already involved in church. These are people who are already involved
00:17:44.220in hierarchical organized structures. They're people who are already organized to donate their
00:17:49.220time and resources in a specific manner and primed to listen when people tell them to. I think that,
00:17:55.700you know the attack on books and lgbtq kids has galvanized a lot of people moms for liberty
00:18:03.040initially their first round that they were running they won 30 of their school board seats that they
00:18:08.320ran people for which is an astronomically high number for a new political organization yeah they
00:18:13.280have since not been particularly successful there has been not and it's like this is not an organized
00:18:19.580movement coming out of the left this is just like people in communities across the country who are
00:18:24.400like no i don't like this these people clearly hate children who are not exactly like they want
00:18:30.300them to be and they want to destroy public education which is fundamentally the goal right
00:18:34.840like all of this is also deeply connected to vouchers which is a whole other conversation
00:18:38.740but it's about destroying public education in america um and so parents you know moms across
00:18:45.200the country are like fine i'll do it it's so exhausting though to be you can hear my puppy
00:18:50.280in the background i can yeah and you can probably hear my baby um the the puppy has waken up from
00:18:56.260her nap uh you know the um it's exhausting to take on these moms for liberty moms they are
00:19:03.540they call themselves joyful warriors and they take that warrior they have such good words
00:19:08.900they take that warrior label as a badge of honor right joyful warriors i mean that is
00:19:15.000look again good branding like exciting branding i i haven't seen nearly enough of this good branding
00:19:21.620on the left i don't i just don't see the excitement i feel like they are excited and
00:19:26.800we are not excited we we have to take a quick quick break but when we get back i want to talk
00:19:31.160about like what can we do to get excited again saying how you feel out loud is terrifying but
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00:19:53.820The stories are written and read by Tembi Dinton Hurst, Nicola Dinan, Curtis Garner, Raven Smith, and Rufy Thorpe.
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00:20:03.780The audiobook's out now. Give it a listen.
00:20:05.840and we're back when we left off we were just talking about how
00:20:14.840you know i'm seeing a lot of excitement and energy on the right despite the lackluster
00:20:21.540candidates i don't see it on the left i think that one of the things the right is really good
00:20:28.560at is tapping into people's emotion and vibes and part of this is because like they don't have
00:20:35.160the substance. And so they are doing a little bit of a magic trick and distracting people,
00:20:40.040but there is so much investment in messaging and infrastructure and vibes. And Turning Point just
00:20:44.920had their Young Women's Leadership Conference and it was, oh my God, it looked so fun.
00:20:50.440It looked so fun. Again, explain Turning Point to our audience who doesn't know what Turning
00:20:54.800Point is. So Turning Point USA is the MAGA messaging outlet. And they started as a student
00:21:01.640organizing group to create like an alternative option for conservative boys who wanted to be
00:21:08.920able to pick up hot chicks. That was literally how they started. And they have grown into having
00:21:15.740a bunch of different verticals. And one of those verticals is influencers. And they have a cadre
00:21:22.480of women uh in their 20s and 30s who are leading this messaging machine to redefine how conservatives
00:21:32.440talk to women and how women think about their role in the political process and they've been
00:21:37.920particularly effective at reaching gen z young women with absolutely bonkers messaging i mean
00:21:44.260a lot of this like anti-birth control stuff pro-homesteading pro-homeschooling you know
00:21:49.440You're taking sort of the authoritarian pipeline, motherhood, and being a homestead mom is your
00:21:58.600number one role and reframing it for the 21st century and in a fantastical way and guns and1.00
00:22:05.480all of that type of stuff. And so they had this Young Women's Leadership Conference. And every
00:22:09.480year this conference gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And this year it was Barbie-rific. It was
00:22:14.380so cute. It looked so fun. It looked so – I'm not going to lie, okay? Like we can shit on things
00:22:19.240all we want. But like, it looked fun. It looked delightful. These girls, girls, women, young0.99
00:22:25.100women, they looked like they were having a freaking blast. And again, why does this matter?
00:22:29.640Turning Point is throwing so much money at influencing, at influencing all of the ideas0.98
00:22:36.320that we hear from, you know, the trad wives, the Harrison Butkers, that women should be back in0.82
00:22:41.020the home, that they should be homesteading, that their highest calling is motherhood.0.88
00:22:44.520That is one of their main goals. They're throwing so much money at it. And they're bringing
00:22:49.120these young women into the group by being seemingly a lot of fun for them i mean just
00:22:55.900describe this event yeah so it was like barbie the vibes were barbie it was pink the um all of
00:23:03.260the branding leading up to it was exquisite hand-drawn sort of pastoral stuff um they just
00:23:10.320posted something recently that was like a strawberry jam uh but not your glock or something
00:23:16.800And it was like this all about, you know, taking guns and making it cute like jam.
00:23:22.740And they had hordes and hordes of young women who were there to build communities, support each other.
00:23:34.020It's Candace Owens and then it's all Megyn Kelly and then lots of people you probably haven't heard of, but who are massive celebrities within these very niche audiences.
00:23:43.720And I think one of the things that Turning Point has been really smart about is understanding the role of a gateway influencer.
00:23:51.760Yes. Yes. This is such an important thing. Such an important thing.
00:23:54.860Yeah. And it's like, you know, I think what people really on the left really want is to see someone with two million followers who is hardcore political all the time and is says everything that needs to be said and is purity politics.
00:24:10.220and what you see on the right is they understand that you want to be pulling people into your
00:24:13.980pipeline and the best way to do that is to talk about culture war stuff it's to talk about pop
00:24:18.900culture it's to talk about like mom stuff and diapers my my favorite conservative influencer
00:24:24.560her followers are called cute servatives and wait shut your mouth yeah who is this
00:24:29.400alex clark she hosts a show called pop politics which is a pop culture show where they like
00:24:35.940sprinkle in politics i can make that show um we should make that show and uh and uh you know
00:24:45.020because they realize that like there's a lot of people who want to listen to podcasts and youtube
00:24:49.400or whatever about pop culture and we want to reach that audience and sprinkle in the the political
00:24:56.720stuff so when we think about the anti-birth control message right like the anti-birth control stuff is
00:25:02.480a very conservative very concerted political and legal war and then on the messaging side you have
00:25:09.860Alex Clark just talking about like I just think birth control is really like dangerous for your
00:25:14.380body right and it's just about wellness it's just about wellness it's not about taking away your
00:25:20.900agency be natural and we see so much of this on social media that's the thing we do it is on
00:25:27.220social media. These young women are being influenced by it. We have, we work with one
00:25:32.720babysitter who tells me, spouts this stuff to me all the time. She's like, I got off birth control.
00:25:37.140First off, why do people tell me all this stuff? It's like, people see me and they're like, let me
00:25:40.720tell you my most personal thing. But like, she's like, I got off birth control because I, you know,
00:25:44.920it's not natural. And I'm like, where did you see this girlfriend? And she's like, well, it's all
00:25:48.480over the TikTok. And I'm like, so, and so therefore take the step further. She doesn't care when birth
00:25:54.480control gets banned. Correct. All you need is a point of the spear, right? What Republican0.71
00:26:00.700leaders have realized is that they don't need to convince the majority of Americans. What they need
00:26:06.480is to convince enough people to elect enough Republicans to Congress who will create these
00:26:13.420decisions. They need to make sure that they put enough Supreme Court justices in place to uphold
00:26:20.080or overturn the right decisions, right? Like they just need enough. And one of the key foundational0.75
00:26:26.520arguments at the beginning of Democracy in Retrograde, pre-order wherever you get your
00:26:30.120books, is this- Order, order. You know, it's not even pre-ordering. It's not. We're just ordering.
00:26:34.120It's so close. You just order the book. You order the book. Yeah. And one of the things that is so
00:26:40.820important in the beginning of Democracy in Retrograde, please order wherever you get your
00:26:44.160books, is this discussion of minority rule and how, you know, what do I mean when I say democracy
00:26:50.320is in retrograde? Retrograde meaning like to go backwards. It's all about how we are losing our
00:26:56.720grasp on being a democratic country because there's an increasingly small group of people
00:27:01.520who have disproportionate power over the rest of us. And that is what Republicans have figured
00:27:07.320out how to do, right? Like there's people, there's a reason why the Koch brothers who run a steel
00:27:12.520manufacturing empire who want to be able to pollute rivers are funding organizations that
00:27:18.700hold conferences for cute servitives, right? It's because they realize that if they are able to use
00:27:23.840that type of messaging to control the government, they can enact a government that deregulates and0.64
00:27:27.800allows them to make Boku bucks. And, you know, minority rule is a very, very serious, complicated
00:27:37.020topic, which I think like sounds very hard to pitch to people, but is in fact sort of logical,
00:27:42.760which is like there's a group of people who are a minority of this country who are able to use
00:27:47.360the infrastructure and institutions to take control. And that's shitty. And there's really0.98
00:27:54.900only one way to fight it, which is democracy. Democracy. Well, just getting involved again,
00:28:01.460checking back in because when we check out they're checking in really really hard really hard
00:28:07.720stumble blah blah blah I haven't had enough coffee this morning but they're they're checking in hard
00:28:12.520and that's I mean part of part of the whole gist of today's episode what I'm talking about is to
00:28:18.520to show people how hard they are checking in on all of these platforms that you might think are
00:28:23.940innocuous you might think Instagram is innocuous you might think TikTok is innocuous but young0.58
00:28:28.680women's eyeballs are on these platforms and they're being converted. They're being converted0.95
00:28:33.380every day. As you check out, these young women are checking in on the other side. They're being told,0.99
00:28:38.800don't care about the birth control. Maybe feminism was bad. Maybe you shouldn't want a job or equal1.00
00:28:45.600pay. Maybe you should let your husband make all of the decisions. Go off the grid. Homestead. It's1.00
00:28:51.460natural. It's normal. This is the normal way of life. That is the messaging that young women are
00:28:55.600seeing. And I just feel like not enough people know that that is happening right under their
00:28:59.320noses. And I think that it seems very organic. And that is because these people are very good
00:29:05.460at their job and they have been building this influencer communication scheme for a while.
00:29:11.120You know, I have a friend who's really high up in Republican politics. And like 10, 15 years ago,
00:29:15.860I was commenting about how they were investing in this social media infrastructure, probably 10
00:29:19.740years ago. And because I've been very obsessed with this for a long time. And he was like,
00:29:25.040well you guys have hollywood right you have your own people to talk we have to create it and they
00:29:31.820they like worked hard to create it and one of the things that is so incredibly effective is right
00:29:36.640there's all of these people who are on the payroll of turning point who have they appear to be just
00:29:41.900like random influencers but they are in fact businesses yes and they're LLCs right and they
00:29:47.520create content and then it is organic right people are influenced and they want to be part of this
00:29:53.600community. And so they then create content. And so as someone who has been going through thyroid
00:30:01.560cancer treatment for a while, one of the things, and I was really sick before I got diagnosed with
00:30:07.960thyroid cancer. And I knew something was wrong. And I was having all of these symptoms. And I
00:30:12.300was going to doctor after doctor. And they could not figure out what was wrong with me. Turns out
00:30:15.860it was not complicated, but that's a whole other story. But I started, I would post something on
00:30:21.680social media and then people would start sending me stuff. And then my social media started sending
00:30:26.360me more and more alternative treatments. And I really, really experienced how quickly one could
00:30:33.700get pulled in the wellness right-wing pipeline. Like I felt awful. The medical system was not
00:30:40.460like acknowledging and validating me. They were telling me, we have no answers. Why don't, you
00:30:45.760know, go take a nap essentially. And I was like, drink some water. You don't drink enough water.
00:30:50.440Yeah. And, um, you know, lose some weight and, uh, and the conservative ecosystem was like,
00:30:59.240girl, we know exactly why you are sick. It is because you are participating in all of these
00:31:07.120things that are awful. You need to, you know, start growing your own food. You need to be taking
00:31:13.140these supplements. You need to be starting essential oils. You know, at one point someone
00:31:18.780sent me Inver Medicine. Someone was sending me things about like injecting ozone into my body.
00:31:24.140That one I think was wild. And, but they had answers for me. And it was, and they had support
00:31:33.920system. And they were like, girl, we see you, we hear you. I've, I've experienced what you're
00:31:38.620experiencing and I'm better. Let me sell you my course on how to get better, which is the other
00:31:43.500thing, right? People are creating this content because there's a grift behind it and there's
00:31:48.340money to be made. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. While they're selling you a very conservative worldview
00:31:54.740and lifestyle, and it's worked on young men too. The young men in this country that we know are
00:32:01.140hopeless and unhappy. I mean, that is why the conservative movement has been so good.
00:32:08.620at recruiting a lot of these young men because they tapped into the fact that they were hopeless.
00:32:13.240They did. The lonely young men are probably the most dangerous group of people in this country.
00:32:19.800I know. I know. It breaks my heart. And I do. I have empathy. And I think we have to have empathy.0.98
00:32:25.820We cannot not have empathy here. But yeah, the lonely young men are a very dangerous group.
00:32:30.580And it's also a group that the left is not talking to or about nearly enough.
00:32:35.580And, you know, there are all of these bro podcasters and Joe Rogan is really just the beginning though. I'll say like Joe Rogan is the most popular podcaster in America and we have to take that as like we have to see it and hear it.
00:32:51.120And like he is – like a lot of men trust him.
00:32:54.780But, you know, these young men, their feelings are being validated and they're being told like there is someone to blame for your unhappiness and a lot of the ire, especially when we're looking at some of the more extreme bro broadcasters, is it's like these women.
00:33:11.420you are entitled to their bodies and we need to recreate an economic infrastructure in which they
00:33:18.080are forced to provide for you you know and let's talk about the war on no-fault divorce
00:33:24.480right which is like a real thing yeah yeah yeah it is it is a real thing all right break we need
00:33:29.640a break we need a break before we talk about the war on no-fault divorce we have to we need one0.98
00:35:18.300And divorce is an incredible tool for women to be able to live their own lives, to be1.00
00:35:24.340able to escape situations of violence. And when you can't escape, you then have to do whatever1.00
00:35:29.840it takes to try to please that husband, right? Because you are dependent on that man or financial
00:35:36.000security, whatever it is. And so there are, you know, and it's fringe politicians at the moment,
00:35:41.660but the idea that the fringe become, you know, the Overton window is moving so quickly in politics
00:35:47.720right now. So the Overton window is this, it's, you know, one of these theories, right? That
00:35:53.260there's a window of things that are possible when it comes to policy-wise. And as you move
00:36:01.560out to the sides of the Overton window, things become less and less possible on a policy-wise.
00:36:06.540But when you see people pushing extreme ideologies, what they are trying to do is
00:36:11.880make it more and more reasonable. I mean, if you told someone 10 years ago that people were going
00:36:18.320to be banning books about gay penguins that would seem insane absolutely insane but the overton
00:36:25.800window was shifted and shifted and shifted to be you know no it's just about protecting children
00:36:31.300blah blah blah to where in some places in america that became an acceptable policy to an act normal0.79
00:36:36.340normal i love that gay i love that gay penguin book love it so much i love those gay penguins
00:36:41.520i was in new york when they were when they were raising their baby i did i did i love i do love
00:36:46.820penguins. I want to go. Who doesn't love penguins? They're so charismatic. Such a charismatic
00:36:51.400minor fauna. The St. Louis Zoo has a penguin experience where you can like watch them as they
00:36:57.540parade. And it's honestly literally on my bucket list to just go have the penguin experience.
00:37:03.580One of my favorite media parties ever back when, you know, so much money was thrown at,
00:37:10.260at like political convention media parties we were at the tampa aquarium during the republican
00:37:17.460convention and i think it was a buzzfeed party like you know and like they just threw money at
00:37:23.020these parties back then and maybe they i don't think they're doing it the same way um one of
00:37:26.920the things they did is they had someone wheel out a wagon full of penguins into the cocktail party
00:37:32.740a wagon full of penguins is my dream i'm about to type it into chat gpt so i can have a photo of it
00:37:38.800to put on my desktop. It was the best. And I talk about it now. This is more than a decade later,
00:37:46.140and I'm like, the best party I ever went to, there was a wagon full of penguins.
00:37:49.440Well, that's actually a great callback to something we were talking about earlier, which is
00:37:53.820they had a wagon full of penguins, not because they wanted you to talk about penguins, because
00:37:59.720they wanted you to have fun covering Republicans. Exactly. At Republican expense. And that convention
00:38:06.060was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. I think that the left was still excited and willing to
00:38:12.280have fun in order to motivate people. And I don't see, look, I'm not seeing a wagon full of penguins
00:38:17.160this year. I'm not. No. And I think the thing is, the wagon full of penguins for me in the
00:38:23.820political process is all of the awesome people I meet. And there is a loneliness epidemic in this
00:38:33.040country. And it's very real. And when we talk about a lot of what the right is offering people,
00:38:38.380it's a sense of community. It's a sense of belonging. It's like people to hang out with.
00:38:42.180It's a village. And, uh, you know, I certainly, I got really sick two years ago and didn't have,
00:38:49.900I had, did not have a village and it was terrible. And I saw a huge difference when I got diagnosed
00:38:55.560with cancer this time of what the result is of having cultivated a village. And the village that
00:39:00.780I cultivated was entirely through political, you know, political action. It was people that I met
00:39:06.860doing this work, people who share my values, but fundamentally they're like friends, right?
00:39:11.740Yes, a hundred percent. And I think that like one of the problems with politics is it has become
00:39:19.660so like everything is outrage and everything is dire and this is the most important election and
00:39:26.080democracy is on the line and like no fault divorce is going to be removed, right? Like
00:39:30.800those things can be true, but also like we are people who are just trying to like make it through0.72
00:39:36.040our lives and have joyful experiences and raise kids and like go to the park and shit like that.
00:39:44.000And it's okay to also say there needs to be positivity. There needs to be inspiration.
00:39:50.240There needs to be hope. There needs to be a positive benefit.
00:39:52.820yes yes and yes where is the joy where is the wagon full of penguins because i'll bet you that
00:39:59.400turning point usa young women's conference they had their version of a wagon full of penguins
00:40:03.420they looked like they were having a blast they were having so fun and you know i have a friend
00:40:09.060josh barrow uh who's a sort of he used to be a republican commentator and now he's a liberal
00:40:16.320commentator but like 20 years ago he made this comment about uh hamburger bun sesame seeds and
00:40:22.040And he was like, the thing about Democrats is like they want to – you just want to eat a hamburger at McDonald's and they are going to make you feel bad about the farming practices of the sesame seeds on that hamburger bun.
00:40:34.800And it's like you just want to pay $1.99 for a quarter pound.
00:40:38.220You just want to pay $1.99 for a quarter pound of a cheese, my friends.
00:40:43.100You know, like, you can't have this political purity and constantly be telling everyone they suck, they're not good enough, you don't deserve to be here, and then be like, well, why aren't you showing up?0.83
00:41:12.480I care about good healthcare. I care about my daughters having access to good, safe birth
00:41:18.220control so they have agency over their own bodies. I care about them being able to get married0.86
00:41:22.400and escape a bad marriage if they need it through no-fault divorce. I care about creating a better
00:41:28.380world for everyone, right? But can we have that joy? Can we care about those things without having
00:41:36.060to feel the guilt and the shame and the weight of the world on our shoulders, which is a lot of the
00:41:39.980democratic messaging and I think that's why we're hopeless and I want us to get excited about the
00:41:44.640things we care about again and allowed and be allowed to be excited be allowed to be like I0.97
00:41:48.020want that fucking wagon of penguins yeah I want the wagon of penguins I want to be able to eat0.93
00:41:53.620healthy food and have like clean water and clean air without having to be on a farmstead and filter0.99
00:41:59.800it all because that sounds like so much work because it's actually so much work that's the
00:42:04.180yeah yeah um like the turning point usa is they've been throwing so much money
00:42:08.740at homestead influencing and this quote-unquote traditional lifestyle
00:42:12.900all of which on social media is stripped of the labor
00:42:16.080if you talk to an actual homesteader or an actual farmer they're like this is
00:42:19.700such hard work yeah i i tried to garden yesterday
00:42:24.060okay i was trying to garden and i can't make my tomatoes live
00:42:28.120not well also trying to make my three children live okay
00:42:31.440so like that is work but again it looks real pretty it looks real pretty on the social media
00:42:36.140it sounds really it sounds like a great idea and it sounds like a positive thing but the reality
00:42:39.920is like also one bad thing happens you get you get cancer you get thyroid cancer let me just tell you
00:42:45.940when i was at my sickest there was no way i was making getting myself growing food and feeding
00:42:50.540myself i was barely ordering food there is a reason we all created communities and it's not
00:42:59.020racket science here. But what they're really good at is feeling the vibes and saying, I see
00:43:07.720all of you are feeling really tapped out with the current way you're living. And there's this
00:43:13.620really aesthetic experience that we can promote on Instagram. Yes, yes, yes, and yes. And when we
00:43:22.100look at it like that, then I think we can realize that we're being manipulated. And again, tapped
00:43:29.000back in. We need to find ways of tapping back in. And they can be small. We don't have to,
00:43:35.100just because you're not excited about the presidential candidate doesn't mean you can't
00:43:38.480get excited about other things in politics. And I think that's the other thing we really have to
00:43:42.020talk about, that you can get excited at the local level. You can get excited at the school board
00:43:47.420level. You can get excited at the city and town level, even if you're like, okay, that dude at
00:43:52.580the top of the ticket, not my jam. There's so many different political levers to pull
00:44:00.600at any given moment. And it's like everything, you know, people always say like, you might not
00:44:05.860do politics, but politics does you baby, right? It's the road that you drive on. If your house
00:44:11.080gets on fire, it's someone coming and putting it out. And what is so interesting is, especially
00:44:17.860at the state legislative level, it's actually incredibly easy to affect those elections.
00:44:25.640Yes, and to talk to your leaders, to talk to the politicians. They are very accessible,
00:44:30.120my friends. Yeah, because very, very few people are interested. And one of the things you find
00:44:34.820out when you get involved in sort of local or state level politics is it's all just retired0.97
00:44:38.140people who are just like, and they shouldn't be in charge of everything, right? No, they shouldn't.
00:44:43.740No, they shouldn't. I mean, look, are we frustrated that both of our candidates have one foot in the grave? Well, we've kind of left it to them for a while. We've allowed the geriatts to take, that's not a word, geriatts to take control.
00:44:56.380geriatrics yeah geriatrics yeah when i'm so i was very very influenced by the like get out of the
00:45:02.860city move to the small town conservative ecosystem and i moved to a small town in rhode island um like
00:45:09.520five years ago and i was like i'm gonna do it i'm gonna become part of this community and i'm gonna
00:45:15.500grow a garden which was i was literally like no immediately no um and uh one of the things i tried
00:45:23.600to do was get involved in local politics. And they were like, I was like, can I sign up for
00:45:28.340the email list? And they were like, we don't have an email list. We have a Facebook, but we don't
00:45:33.020know how to sign into it. You can call us to find when the next meeting time is on a landline.
00:45:39.740On a landline. Why don't you fax me something? Why don't you fax me something?
00:45:43.600And you know, my response was like, this sounds terrible. I do not want to spend my one precious
00:45:48.040like hanging out with these people. And that was the decision that I made. You know, in retrospect,
00:45:53.220what I should have done is like found other people that I like and be like let's all go together and0.96
00:45:58.840take this shit over like yes yes yes yes yes I mean I think about this a lot at the local level0.94
00:46:05.600too we one street over from me and I live in the city I you know I love cities I believe in cities1.00
00:46:12.960I believe in the community of cities and one street over is our big commercial street and
00:46:17.140this adorable toy store closed uh because you know they're the real estate laws in the city
00:46:22.980and the taxation laws are crap um and now we have two vape shops on the street two vape shops which
00:46:30.480are mostly empty most of the time and clearly they're waiting for the legalization of weed0.95
00:46:35.140but like it just makes no one want to walk by them it is a stain on this street um it feels
00:46:42.300yucky you don't want to open your business next to the vape shop but and all my friends complain
00:46:47.780about the vape shop but literally no none of them go to the community board meetings like none of
00:46:51.860them are willing to take action. The people at the community board meetings are trying to oppose
00:46:56.980like good retail coming in because they're like, it might be allowed. But they're not paying
00:47:01.420attention to the things that actually matter to a lot of the families. But we're not getting
00:47:06.820involved. And I say that to my friends all the time. I'm like, do you know how to get involved
00:47:11.020in the community board meeting? I only just found out. I only just found out because I had that
00:47:15.220wake up moment. I'm like, if you want to get rid of these vape shops and open your bookstore over
00:47:18.640there. You better go show up. Show the F up. And I think that's it. If we care, we have to show the
00:47:25.340F up. We can't check out. Of these things that seem little, but they're not little because this
00:47:29.280is how we live. This is the things that shape your day-to-day life. And so often, the local
00:47:34.780politics decisions are the ones that really matter to you. If there is or is not a speed bump that
00:47:40.360literally affects you every single day, there's also, I think, five vape stores within a three
00:47:47.480block radius of my house so many vapes like i i actually don't know anyone who vapes um my view
00:47:53.640on vaping is i'm like so unpopular my view on vaping as someone who like smoked during my 20s0.99
00:48:00.280and then was totally grossed out by it i'm like smoke a fucking cigarette that fucking bite buy0.99
00:48:04.860yourself some parliament lights okay like if you want to give yourself cancer you want to give1.00
00:48:08.560yourself cancer at least look cool doing it motherfuckers but um it doesn't it doesn't need0.99
00:48:14.740to taste like tropical punch you guys it shouldn't taste like tropical punch okay it should be1.00
00:48:19.320disgusting and you should love it you should love it i say to someone who literally just had throat
00:48:25.300cancer i'm sorry emily i'm a terrible person it should taste like you picked it up off the floor0.98
00:48:29.800of a nightclub at 4 a.m exactly that's what it should taste like like death okay like death and
00:48:36.540so yes i want to get rid of these vape shops um it yeah you know and i one of the things that's
00:48:41.580really interesting. So I also have, uh, the community board that I have gone to a couple
00:48:46.860of times and there, there was a big issue about, they were trying to build something on my actual
00:48:51.760street like six or seven years ago. That was awful. And I went to the community board meeting
00:48:57.080and I stood up and I like gave a big speech and we were actually successful. And it was very
00:49:01.780exciting for me. And people were like, you should run, uh, when the seat opens up. And then I was
00:49:07.480like, oh, absolutely not. I do not want to be doing this every Tuesday or whatever. But now
00:49:14.040we have five vape shops. But now you have five vape shops. Yeah. You know what, Emily? Maybe
00:49:19.600if you had gotten involved and then also gotten your friends involved and made it somewhat fun.
00:49:25.840Also get your friends involved. Make it fun. It can be fun. That was like part of it. I was like,
00:49:30.080I don't want to hang out with these people every other week. 100%. 100%. There are ways to make it
00:49:34.700fun and your book talks about how to make it fun again um democracy and retrograde it i found i
00:49:39.560found it so inspiring and hopeful again and i think we all just want to have hope again um i love the
00:49:45.440idea of getting this book and sharing it with friends to be like can we enjoy politics again
00:49:50.280because politics is life like it is politics is our life it's how we live our life and there's a
00:49:54.820whole discussion guide in the book because we want like the goal is for you to talk about this with
00:50:00.000your friends it is not to just like consume political information and then steam uh on your
00:50:06.660phone at 10 p.m and like rage scroll right like the idea is to like get out there and figure out
00:50:13.120what matters to you and also like how do you involve your kids in this process and how do
00:50:17.580you make it a family thing and how do you turn politics and civic engagement and protecting
00:50:22.740democracy into something that's part of your everyday life and that makes you happy and fills
00:50:26.980your cup and not like an annual or biannual freak out yeah yeah like not like a biannual
00:50:32.860self-harm okay because look i yes the joy has been stripped of it in so many ways also it's
00:50:39.280become so hard and so contentious to even talk about politics we have to start giving people
00:50:42.600grace again like we have to just be able to talk to chat and have a conversation and that's gone
00:50:47.940out the fucking window at this point so there's so like we should be able to we should be able
00:50:53.420to be joyful when talking about how to make the world better and nice. I was talking to a0.99
00:50:58.540girlfriend yesterday about having conversations about politics. And she was saying, I really just
00:51:02.800don't want to do it because it makes people upset. And I don't want to make people upset. And I just
00:51:07.560think that everything has gotten too contentious. And I was like, here's the thing. Someone's got
00:51:12.140to be modeling good behavior. Someone normal has to start these conversations. Right now,
00:51:17.840what we've done is the only people who are starting political conversations are like
00:51:21.900bananas, coconut tree, like absolute nutter butters, your uncle Chad at Thanksgiving.