Under the Influence (with Jo Piazza) - November 06, 2025


We’re Not Going Quietly Into Perimenopause

Topics
The Antidote to Tradwife Economics Rewatch My So Called Life With Me

Episode Stats


Length

41 minutes

Words per minute

161.6

Word count

6,748

Sentence count

481

Harmful content

Misogyny

26

sentences flagged

Toxicity

23

sentences flagged

Hate speech

28

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
00:00:00.000 hey y'all joe here and you are listening to under the influence i've been thinking and
00:00:10.160 writing a lot about perimenopause because i'm just i'm in the thick of it and i've told you
00:00:15.740 all of my super annoying symptoms the worst one for me is truly my messed up sleep because i'm
00:00:23.520 a person who thrives, thrives on getting really good sleep. And waking up at two in the morning
00:00:30.220 in a pool of warm-ish, weird-smelling sweat, and then not being able to go back to sleep until
00:00:37.760 4.30 in the morning is pretty much just really messing with my life right now. And so I recently
00:00:45.900 went back on the pill. My OBGYN prescribed it. She said I should try this before I start trying
00:00:51.780 hormone replacement therapy. And it's like two weeks in. I have no idea what's going to happen.
00:00:57.900 I will keep everyone updated. One thing that I do know that I definitely know is true in this world
00:01:03.160 is that if men went through perimenopause and ultimately menopause, a word that we've been 0.93
00:01:10.100 using wrong for decades and decades. But if men went through this, then hormone replacement therapy
00:01:16.620 would be available over the counter like freaking Advil, okay? They would just be putting it in 0.91
00:01:23.560 Gatorade in sports drinks, okay? But because we're women, we have to jump through a gazillion hoops 1.00
00:01:30.340 and typically pay out of pocket too for hormone replacement therapy. I was able to get back on
00:01:36.680 birth control, which I haven't been on in forever, and I'm a little nervous about how I'm going to
00:01:43.060 feel on it. But I was able to do that and have it covered by insurance. But if I wanted to do
00:01:48.180 HRT, we're looking at about a grand out of pocket every month. So all of this is just bananas. And
00:01:56.200 I want to keep diving more into it with you. I truly think that we are the generation that is
00:02:02.440 going to really completely upend how we think about perimenopause and aging. I truly, truly
00:02:10.400 believe this. And my guest today is working on exactly this. Lauren Tettenbaum has written
00:02:16.920 Millennial Menopause, Preparing for Perimenopause, Menopause, and Life's Next Period. Pun totally,
00:02:24.460 totally intended. And I love this book because it isn't about being in the throes of menopause
00:02:30.640 and perimenopause exactly. It's more about how we can just get ready for it. And I think that's
00:02:36.460 really important. I think it's really important if you are in your 20s, your 30s, or like me,
00:02:42.040 your mid-40s. Today, we're going to talk about hormonal changes and mental health and all the
00:02:46.980 impacts that this has on our careers, our sex lives. Huge, huge. And even our friendships.
00:02:53.580 Lauren interviewed me for this book when she was first writing it. And I think her perspective as
00:02:57.740 a millennial woman is both important and also really interesting. So let's dive into it.
00:03:06.460 My first question for you is, why did you want to address this as a millennial woman?
00:03:17.100 I feel like most of us don't even think about this until we get into our 40s.
00:03:21.940 And how old are you?
00:03:23.280 I am 40.
00:03:24.720 You are 40.
00:03:25.540 OK, but you started working on this a couple of years ago, right?
00:03:28.320 So I decided to work on this because I'm a curious person and I was wondering what the
00:03:36.060 F is menopause?
00:03:38.000 What's coming next? 0.92
00:03:39.240 And why don't I know anything about it as an educated person who cares about women's
00:03:45.060 health?
00:03:45.740 And I work as a psychotherapist and so many of my clients will say things like, why didn't
00:03:51.580 anyone warn me about the hormonal effects of breastfeeding or how difficult it is to manage
00:03:59.600 the mental load with my partner or how hard it is to be a woman in the workplace, etc. And then I
00:04:06.060 started hearing that about menopause. Why didn't anyone warn me? And I thought, I'll warn them.
00:04:12.760 I will warn. I will teach my clients, my friends, and my generation.
00:04:17.620 done. Yeah. I mean, I think that a really good title of a podcast or a book is actually 0.52
00:04:23.220 Why Didn't Anyone Warn Me? And then it's just chapters about things that happen to women's
00:04:28.280 bodies. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, done. Done. Nick Astor actually told me that I can't do any more
00:04:34.020 projects through the end of the year. He says that I'm full up on projects, but maybe this is
00:04:38.800 a 2026 situation. I'm in and I am so excited for all of your projects. I love, love, love them.
00:04:45.600 No, I am, too. I am, too. It has been crazy this past week because, you know, the Louvre got robbed and I've been working on a novel about an actual museum heist in Paris. So I'm clearly, clearly a psychic witch is what I am.
00:05:01.660 I said on your Instagram, we know you're a Sicilian witch and I love that for you. 0.93
00:05:06.800 I know. And everyone's like, stop rubbing it in, Piazza. Okay, so you started researching this. And talk to me about the things that surprised you most when it comes to perimenopause as a woman who, when you started this, was in your late 30s. 1.00
00:05:22.320 I would say that I was very surprised by the duration of symptoms, which we now know can start and often do start in one's late 30s.
00:05:35.620 And I was also really surprised by how many mental and emotional health symptoms there were.
00:05:43.700 And we are also learning now that those are often the first signs that a woman's hormones are fluctuating and that she's entering into perimenopause.
00:05:54.140 Yeah, that's that is what surprised me the most, too.
00:05:57.060 And I don't think look, I'm just going to say it.
00:05:59.180 I don't think any of us talked about perimenopause until about two years ago.
00:06:02.940 And then finally we're like, oh, wait, guess what? 0.98
00:06:05.120 You've got like a decade of shit ahead of you before your period actually starts. 0.98
00:06:09.380 And all of these things that you were just supposed to shoulder the burden of as a woman, they're actually related to your hormones, but no one has studied them or talked about them because we don't study or talk about women's bodies. 0.99
00:06:22.180 I mean, that is what has me so freaking enraged here that every time I talk about this, I'm just pissed off.
00:06:28.060 I know. A lot of people ask me when they learn about this project, they're like, well, why don't we talk about it? Why don't we know more?
00:06:35.680 And I say, honestly, the answer is misogyny. And I mean, I'm laughing because it's just ridiculous that it's half the population. We shouldn't have to convince people to care about women. We shouldn't have to make a business case, although there is one. But here we are. And women really have been suffering because they're not getting the help they need and they're not living their lives optimally. 0.93
00:07:00.520 But that's why I think knowledge is power on our conversations like this one. 0.51
00:07:05.760 We're making the change.
00:07:08.480 We are making the change. 0.76
00:07:09.540 And I think that Gen X and millennials, of which I just straddle the middle of this precariously, we're going to change a lot of things about the world because we are very vocal and we get shit done is the point of this. 0.81
00:07:27.080 It's true. 0.81
00:07:27.720 It's true.
00:07:28.140 So let's start at the very beginning of this. You talk about first and foremost,
00:07:34.940 normalizing menstruation, normalizing periods. What do you mean by that?
00:07:39.940 I mean that a girl who is in fourth grade and gets her period at school should know what it is
00:07:49.740 and shouldn't be ashamed to ask for help or shouldn't be ashamed to tell her friends
00:07:57.960 including her male friends, that maybe she needs a different pair of clothes or whatever it is
00:08:03.360 because she wasn't prepared. And just destigmatizing the fact that like menopause,
00:08:10.060 menstruation affects every woman with ovaries. It's so important because this is part of our
00:08:17.680 health. You know, the same way we have bones and teeth and hair, it's a part of our bodies
00:08:24.360 And we're going to grow and go through it at different rates, but we all go through it.
00:08:29.660 And we need to be just open-minded about what impacts it has on our daily lives and not make people feel ashamed.
00:08:39.880 Yeah, I think that's a really good place to start because we have a lot of mothers listening to this podcast who are figuring out how to talk about periods with their kids, both boys and girls.
00:08:52.780 I say this all the time. There's plenty of period talk in my house, mostly because perimenopause,
00:08:58.840 it really shows up in my life, like a murder scene period. So I'm constantly bleeding through
00:09:05.500 everything. Like there's just bloody clothes all over my house that I have to explain to my
00:09:09.680 children, including my son. And so we have a lot of period talk that I don't think existed
00:09:15.700 in a lot of households i was raised on 17 magazine and cosmo where every shame-filled story was like
00:09:23.240 a dog pulling a bloody tampon out of a trash bin yeah but it's like i say this too with kids with
00:09:31.500 adults like everybody poops and i'm only using that term because for ease but i do believe in
00:09:37.700 in medically accurate terminology everyone has bowel movements everyone poops and i wonder like 0.91
00:09:42.820 if you were sick and you vomited, would you be as ashamed as the bloody tampon? You know, 0.83
00:09:48.900 probably not because we tend to normalize that kind of bodily fluid. And I think because it's
00:09:55.460 a woman's issue, we tend to get very strange and prudish about blood, but it's really not a big 0.62
00:10:02.520 deal. It's really not a big deal. Or on the flip side, it is a big deal because it's actually an
00:10:09.960 amazing part of a woman's bodily functions that we should just de-stigmatize. That is the point 1.00
00:10:18.980 here. So much of what we go through as women has been stigmatized for so long that all of it is
00:10:25.780 cloaked in shame. And then we get to the point where our period is starting to go away and our
00:10:31.140 bodies are starting to change. And even our doctors kind of ignore it. I have a GP who ignores this,
00:10:38.240 And I'm trying to find a new freaking GP now because she is a woman who went through menopause and is kind of like, well, you just go through it like we all did. 0.91
00:10:49.220 No, Joe. 0.98
00:10:50.720 Oh, my goodness.
00:10:51.920 That's wild.
00:10:53.180 And you're in Philly and you're well-educated. 0.99
00:10:56.000 And imagine all of the women who, you know, don't even speak the language and really struggle. 0.92
00:11:03.280 And I am so sorry that you've had that experience. 0.98
00:11:06.460 Yeah, it sucks.
00:11:07.100 and I think that that experience is totally the norm. My OBGYN is a goddess. She was running late 0.99
00:11:14.240 the other day, and then I had to catch a train to New York, and I swear to God, we did a pelvic
00:11:19.440 exam in two hot minutes. That woman was in and out of my vagina so quick. We just got it done. 1.00
00:11:26.380 And she is also going through perimenopause and menopause herself. She just got trained
00:11:32.000 to work with her patients on this. She gets it. But I think the majority of doctors simply do not
00:11:37.900 get it. And that sucks. It does suck. And I don't want to demonize that. Not that you are, but just 0.99
00:11:43.620 to be clear. Oh, I am a little bit. Actually, to be honest, I am a little bit because I think that
00:11:48.980 the entire medical field has turned a blind eye to women's health and it's time just to call it out. 1.00
00:11:54.440 Well, you're right. I was going to say it's because they don't have the education. But you 1.00
00:11:58.900 know what time to get it you know time to get it time to get it it exists do they exist in the same
00:12:04.120 world that we exist in right now right like I didn't get any training in my graduate work and
00:12:12.260 I sought out training on this and now I train other mental health professionals and I just
00:12:17.540 got certified as a menopause society practitioner because I recognized how important and significant
00:12:24.220 this is. And yeah, you're right that at the very least, your primary care physician should say,
00:12:31.180 I'm not sure. Let me look into it for you or refer you. They should not dismiss you.
00:12:37.820 No, exactly. Exactly. So you've just gotten this training. What is this training? What does this
00:12:42.400 even mean? So there isn't simply one training, just like there are multiple medical programs,
00:12:50.720 and I'm not a doctor or a medical provider or prescriber, but as a licensed healthcare
00:12:55.760 professional, which I am as a licensed clinical social worker, I was eligible to sit for a
00:13:02.320 competency-based exam offered by the Menopause Society. And I would say that the exam itself
00:13:08.960 is certainly a valuable tool, but it doesn't just cover menopause. It covers midlife women's health
00:13:17.280 And all of the other trainings that I did with providers who you might be familiar with from social media, including Heather Hirsch and Jackie Biasda, those were really the women and the providers that taught me about how to care for women at this phase of life.
00:13:35.020 And it takes a lot of different forms of training and classes and, of course, the actual work with women.
00:13:43.960 You know, you can't just read a textbook and be an expert.
00:13:46.920 You have to be listening and seeing the trial and error of different hormone therapy regimens or lifestyle changes or both and really be caring for these women and about these women.
00:14:01.060 I agree with that.
00:14:02.560 So working with your clients, what are some of the things that you feel more capable talking to them about now?
00:14:10.920 So I certainly feel capable talking to them about what they're going through.
00:14:16.360 just providing the psychoeducation. And this is similar to that perinatal postpartum phase of
00:14:22.040 you're not going crazy. You're not imagining it. Your body is different. Your mood swings are
00:14:27.580 different. This is really hard. And let me explain what's going on here. Providing the psychoeducation
00:14:33.640 is key. A couple of years ago, I didn't even know what perimenopause was. So when women were
00:14:39.420 complaining of certain symptoms, I didn't think that it was connected with their hormones. I
00:14:44.220 wasn't, I didn't know. Now I know. Then educating them on the lifestyle modifications that we can
00:14:51.980 all use as medicine. Yes, yes. I want to hear about all those. Let's take a quick break. And
00:14:57.880 when we get back, I want to talk about those lifestyle changes. Okay, we're back. I want to
00:15:09.820 hear about these lifestyle changes. What do you recommend to your patients as they are about to
00:15:13.560 go into perimenopause? Sure. So if someone's complaining about mood symptoms related to
00:15:19.960 anxiety and depression, one of the first questions that I'll ask is, how's your sleep? And it is a
00:15:26.260 bit cyclical because, of course, if you're not getting good sleep, you're in a bad mood and,
00:15:31.000 you know, vice versa. But there are things we can do to optimize our sleep hygiene,
00:15:36.460 like going to bed at a certain time, waking up at a certain time, a cold room, which I am a huge
00:15:42.880 fan of, monitoring that thermostat, and a dark room, no screens, all the things that we kind of
00:15:49.620 know. But I can't emphasize enough the importance of it because sleep is medicine. So I work on them
00:15:56.480 with sleep. If they're saying I'm having trouble falling asleep because I'm anxious, we explore
00:16:01.280 that. And we come up with tools to help them reframe their thoughts and other coping mechanisms.
00:16:08.240 Wait, let's do this. I can't fall asleep. I didn't fall asleep until one o'clock last night. And I don't even know. There's a little bit of anxiety. I'm on the Zoloft, so that really mitigates it. But yeah, let's dig into that for a second. What are some mechanisms to help me get to sleep? Because my sleep is so effed right now.
00:16:28.580 So I will give you the cognitive behavioral tools, but I do just want to go back to the
00:16:35.540 medical for a second. Are you taking progesterone? I just started one of the like one of the birth
00:16:43.500 control pills. Yeah. So it's estrogen and progesterone. Okay. So hopefully that will help
00:16:49.040 a little. Progesterone helps women fall asleep. Estrogen helps them stay asleep. Now let's go 0.85
00:16:55.860 back to the CBT of it all. So may I ask? And what is CBT for our people who don't know?
00:17:02.780 Cognitive behavioral therapy. Okay. That is a form of psychotherapy that I primarily utilize
00:17:07.860 and we work on one's thoughts and behaviors and reactions to stressful situations in a nutshell.
00:17:15.600 So what time did you try to go to sleep and what did that look like for you?
00:17:19.740 I try to go to bed so early.
00:17:21.680 I'm in bed by about 9 o'clock.
00:17:23.740 I put all of my screens downstairs.
00:17:26.400 I start reading an actual regular book.
00:17:29.560 My sleep hygiene is actually pretty good, which is what is driving me completely insane.
00:17:36.800 And while you're struggling to fall asleep, are you talking to yourself like that? 0.63
00:17:40.540 Like, this is so freaking annoying.
00:17:42.100 Why can't I fall asleep?
00:17:43.260 No, usually not.
00:17:45.440 Okay.
00:17:45.740 So usually if you're struggling with falling asleep, it's actually a good idea to get out of bed for 15 to 20 minutes, go to a different room, keep the lights low, keep the vibe sleepy, but do something else like maybe listening to a meditation or reading and then return back to your bed.
00:18:09.400 And by doing this, and this is a form of CBTI, which is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia, that's a little lie there, it is meant to help reduce the anxiety around falling asleep because so many of us do say things like, oh my God, another half an hour has gone by.
00:18:29.260 Why can't I fall asleep?
00:18:30.260 I'm just watching the clock.
00:18:31.340 It sounds like you aren't experiencing anxiety around sleep, but I would try those behavioral changes and give it a go.
00:18:39.680 And if you're struggling, I would certainly, and this is a general tip for everything, journal.
00:18:46.340 Write down what's coming up for you.
00:18:48.460 You might think you're not anxious about sleep, but the fact that you even know what time it was shows me, you know, you were checking the clock.
00:18:55.160 What does this mean for my morning might have been a thought.
00:18:58.540 And I would just be curious about your thoughts going on at that time when you were struggling.
00:19:04.820 I would also encourage you to do some breathing exercises.
00:19:08.560 There's a good kind of mind-body exercise I do when I'm trying to fall asleep.
00:19:15.300 And it's from the bottom of my feet up to my head.
00:19:19.000 I sort of like relax each muscle and think about it that way.
00:19:22.620 And that's just something to try.
00:19:24.260 And there's no magic solution or magic potion for any of these issues, but perimenopause and, of course, life involve a lot of trial and error.
00:19:34.600 And so you have to try what works for you and keep track.
00:19:38.360 I think those are really good rules for them.
00:19:41.020 Yeah, no, I agree with that.
00:19:43.740 And look, I've been trying all of the different things.
00:19:47.140 I'm doing okay with not stressing about what my day is going to look like.
00:19:51.700 And that is because I'm married to a very supportive partner who, if I'm not sleeping, I poke him and tell him and he does mornings and then I sleep until 930 instead of 730.
00:20:02.200 And then that fixes the two hours that I missed.
00:20:04.260 The majority of people do not have this option.
00:20:07.380 Well, that's another area that I'm passionate about, as you know.
00:20:11.020 But yes, I would say that is a good solve.
00:20:15.260 It sounds like a good solution for you.
00:20:16.900 I would maybe say, though, that your catching up sort of resets your rhythm and your internal clock.
00:20:26.840 And maybe I would consider not sleeping in and then going to bed at the same time that you normally would so that your body knows between 9.30 p.m., 7.30 a.m., that sleep time.
00:20:40.020 Right, right.
00:20:40.840 That is yet another thing to try.
00:20:43.800 Yet another thing to add to the list.
00:20:46.500 So, yeah, sleep is sleep is my biggest symptom. And that was the biggest thing I was moaning about to my OBGYN, because also I love sleep. I want to fall asleep. I'm very into sleep. Love, love, love my sheets, love my bed, all of the things. And it's frustrating when when you can't get good sleep. It truly is. I think for for everyone that's going through this. What are some of the other symptoms that your patients bring up to you that they might not know are perimenopausal?
00:21:16.080 Right. So in addition to the sleep disruptions, which can come about because of physical symptoms like having to go to the bathroom all the time, you know, the chronic UTIs, the anxiety, the wake ups that seem unexplainable.
00:21:29.960 In addition to all of that, what I see often among my patients for women in their 20s, 30s and 40s is that when they're perimenopausal, they're really struggling with irritability and rage and a lack of control.
00:21:45.120 and this feeling tends to be different than what I might have been working with them on previously
00:21:51.620 so it's not their you know quote-unquote typical anxiety or depression it's something new and
00:21:57.220 different and they really can't control their reactions and they're pissed and they don't meet
00:22:03.340 they don't intend to react that way to their kids or their husband or their boss whatever it is but 0.99
00:22:08.020 they just are so reactive and then they of course feel guilty because women are conditioned to be 1.00
00:22:14.620 nice all the time. And it's this cycle. And I see this a lot with women who have no idea that this 0.97
00:22:23.860 could be connected to their hormonal fluctuations, but they're really struggling. And the way that 0.97
00:22:29.460 women tend to describe this is I don't feel like myself and I don't know what's going on with me. 0.98
00:22:37.360 Yeah, that's fair. I'm enraged all the time and I can't tell if it's perimenopause, 0.94
00:22:42.220 being a mother of three small children or just living in the dumpster fire of our world right
00:22:46.960 now. And I think a lot of women feel this way, too. Is this how I would react if my hormones
00:22:54.480 were doing the things they were normally doing? Also, I don't even know because my hormones have
00:22:58.820 been crazy for 10 years because I've been breeding for 10 years. So I have for the listeners who
00:23:06.360 who don't know and wouldn't know, I tend to email Joe late night musings on our dystopian
00:23:12.000 world. True, you do. And I like them. I always I always appreciate them.
00:23:17.620 So, you know, we are living in pretty crazy times. And I would say to all women,
00:23:24.500 if you're feeling rageful, I get it. I'm with you. We are in this together. And I certainly
00:23:31.940 do not want to blame hormones for everything because they're not the culprit here for everything.
00:23:39.300 But if they can be, I don't want to say optimized because I don't even think that's a thing. But if
00:23:45.300 you can feel better physically, biologically, you know, mentally from the inside out, that can only
00:23:51.980 help. Right. And I would say, well, what is it that's bothering you and how can we fix it?
00:23:57.260 And it might mean hormone therapy. It might mean changing jobs because your boss is an asshole. It might mean voting. It could mean all of the above. Right. This isn't just a one and done solution. 1.00
00:24:10.420 yeah no and i did a full inventory recently of things that were making me enraged uh that might
00:24:19.700 not have to be with have to do with my hormones and frankly i decided that there were some things
00:24:25.040 and people i just had to cut out of my life to get rid of some of that rage and i feel really
00:24:31.240 good about that you know it always that's always nervous making but i do think taking an inventory
00:24:37.940 like that, it can really help. I love that. I think another word or term for that could be
00:24:45.140 setting boundaries or carving out things that actually add value to your life. So many women 1.00
00:24:50.580 older than I am told me that they do things like that. And they framed it as once they were post 1.00
00:24:56.260 menopause, they felt more confident and, you know, not like hormones are wild and crazy. And then you
00:25:02.360 suddenly feel like the best version of you. I think it's also life experience. But I do think
00:25:08.480 there's something about perimenopause and the menopause transition that does give women
00:25:12.720 an opportunity to reflect. What is it that makes them happy? What is it that doesn't? What do they
00:25:21.080 need help with? What do they need to work on? And that might include cutting out the noise, right?
00:25:26.660 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that we are raised for so long to be people pleasers that we want to make all of these people and institutions in our life happy all the time. And we simply cannot. We cannot do it.
00:25:43.200 And I'm finally coming to the realization that it is indeed impossible.
00:25:48.220 But I will say, especially when it comes to work projects that are incredibly toxic, cutting those out of your life can can feel very tricky.
00:25:57.380 But I do think that given where I'm at, it's time to to just like kind of do a big cleanse of all of the things.
00:26:08.980 Yeah, I shouldn't have that.
00:26:10.900 But I, it, of course, it's tricky.
00:26:13.740 Of course, it's easier for me to say, oh, don't get bothered by that terrible boss that
00:26:18.900 you have.
00:26:19.440 No, and that's, if it's your livelihood and you care about your career or you do want
00:26:24.220 to go do a good job, of course, that's hard.
00:26:27.700 But I would say to women dealing with stressful work situations, for example, get through 0.90
00:26:33.440 whatever you have to do.
00:26:34.360 Try not to bring it home with you, you know, metaphorically, like in a few years when you're
00:26:39.500 done with this boss or this project, you don't want to tell yourself, oh, I wasted so much time
00:26:45.320 thinking about that and being stressed about it when I wasn't working on it. You know,
00:26:50.140 there's so much liberation in walking away from a toxic situation. So do what you have to do
00:26:56.880 and leave it there. Yeah, no, I agree. I love that this is becoming more of a therapy session
00:27:02.700 because I'm just like, Lauren, I want to talk about perimenopause and your wonderful book,
00:27:07.020 But also, can we just do therapy a little bit?
00:27:09.380 That would be great for me.
00:27:12.400 Okay, let's take one more quick break.
00:27:15.080 And when we get back, I want to just dig a little bit more into the personal stories that you discovered.
00:27:21.920 You interviewed me for this book, for Millennial Menopause.
00:27:26.520 And I want to hear about some of the other stories that you heard that may have been surprising to you.
00:27:37.020 Okay, we are back. You did so many interviews for Millennial Menopause. Talk to me about some
00:27:43.700 of the stories that you heard while you were researching this book.
00:27:48.300 Absolutely. And it was such a pleasure to hear women's stories. And obviously, as a therapist,
00:27:54.520 that's what I do in my job. And I really feel privileged to bear witness to women's stories
00:28:01.680 and then to provide counsel to them when they need that.
00:28:06.640 So thank you for acknowledging it.
00:28:08.780 Some of the stories that I heard that were really profound for me as a mental health professional
00:28:14.480 were related to the mental health struggles that women were experiencing
00:28:18.880 and the absolute lack of help that they got. 0.94
00:28:23.440 I'm talking about women who are well-educated, they're well-resourced,
00:28:28.460 they had a lot of great support, and yet they really struggled to find the right providers
00:28:34.720 who even said, huh, this could be related to menopause. You're about that age, right?
00:28:41.740 Instead, the doctors that they saw were giving all kinds of antidepressants, but nothing was
00:28:48.840 working. I've met with women who went into inpatient psychiatric units because they were
00:28:54.820 so desperate for help. They were maybe even suicidal and no one mentioned hormones. That's
00:29:02.420 a problem. I think that's changing with conversations like these, but the amount of
00:29:07.720 women who went through something like that, that I met with was astounding. I also interviewed a
00:29:14.540 lot of women who took note of their mother's experiences and they would say things like,
00:29:19.540 wow, she must have really been suffering, whether she had heart cardiovascular issues or she was
00:29:26.900 really moody, but it didn't seem like her and it impacted the entire family. That was really
00:29:32.800 profound for me too. And it just confirmed that these are conversations we need to be having with
00:29:38.780 people of all ages and make it better for the generations to come. Yeah, it's so funny. I was
00:29:46.720 talking to my mom about this the other day. She was here this weekend watching our kids. And I
00:29:52.980 told her that I got back on the pill to try to regulate some of these hormonal changes. And she
00:29:58.740 goes, you know, I don't think I had any symptoms from menopause. And I just remember her being
00:30:03.780 a raging lunatic for about 10 years. But no one said, oh, hey, maybe you're going through this 0.80
00:30:11.420 because maybe she didn't have the characteristic hot flashes, which were literally all anyone ever
00:30:16.460 talked about. That's it. That's it. I don't think she knew. I don't think she had any idea what she
00:30:22.860 was going through. And it was just such an interesting perspective. Yeah. No, I've spoken
00:30:29.660 with many women who were born in the 50s, you know, the boomer. I don't know when your mom was 0.89
00:30:34.680 born, but that era, because they weren't offered hormone therapy following the WHI study. And they
00:30:41.400 were essentially told, this is just midlife, suck it up. And you're right about hot lashes. That
00:30:45.960 tends to be the hallmark for the irregular periods, but a lot of people don't even get a period. So
00:30:51.820 it's complete BS. And if a provider says, well, you're not in menopause because you still got a
00:30:57.500 regular period, it's time to find a new provider. Yeah. Yeah. And it is also heartbreaking to me
00:31:04.860 that you did talk to so many women who kind of had to hit rock bottom in their lives before
00:31:11.140 getting any kind of help, right? Yeah. It's really upsetting. And I'm so grateful to them
00:31:18.480 that they are using their experiences to help others. And of course, you know, what about all
00:31:24.140 the women who don't have that opportunity? But that's why we share their stories. 0.98
00:31:30.980 So give me a roadmap. If I were coming into you as a patient, you know, what are you telling
00:31:40.520 millennial women about how to prepare for this we we got into sleep and then we got sidetracked
00:31:46.740 what are the other lifestyle changes so other lifestyle changes and i'll list them and then 0.96
00:31:52.240 we can dig in if we want but so sleep good nutrition and they always say get your vitamins
00:31:58.540 and nutrients from food versus supplements if you can stress reduction which is where someone like
00:32:06.000 me also comes in. Social connectivity is huge. We can't age and have good cognitive functioning
00:32:14.220 without social connection. So it's not only good for our mental health, but also our physical and
00:32:20.260 all areas of our health. And then, and I know you like this one, strength training is so important
00:32:27.120 for our bones, our muscles. We don't want to be frail old ladies who break a hip and then are 0.50
00:32:33.580 immobile for the rest of our lives. We want to be strong and healthy. And that often comes with
00:32:39.480 strength training and other forms of weight resistance exercises. The other tool that I
00:32:46.020 utilize, I'm also back on the pill, and that I educate women on is hormone therapy. It's medicine. 0.99
00:32:54.640 And my generation is absolutely still living in the shadow of the study that was misinterpreted
00:33:02.180 to say hormone therapy is dangerous. When in fact, now we know that hormone therapy is safe and
00:33:08.460 effective for most women. And just this last week at the Menopause Society's actual annual meeting,
00:33:15.060 they found that women who start a form of hormone therapy in their late 30s, early 40s
00:33:20.640 in perimenopause actually have significant disease risk reduction. So it's actually
00:33:27.740 proactive. And I think women, I mean, we should all be screaming about this. And I suppose we are
00:33:34.080 via this podcast. Women need to know because they're afraid of this medicine. And in fact, 1.00
00:33:41.980 it's protective for us. And so I want my generation to be proactive. And that's why I wrote the book.
00:33:48.920 And I think we will be proactive. I'm trying to be as proactive as possible. Which pill are you
00:33:55.780 taking? I'd say yes. And that is because it worked well for me before I had babies. And that was the
00:34:03.160 first thing we tried. And luckily, it worked well for me again. Great. Yeah. Mine is, I think,
00:34:09.240 Loestra is what it is. I think it's the generic version of Loestra. I had to look it up the other
00:34:15.560 day for some other reason. And like I said, I don't know yet. We will see. My sleep is still
00:34:20.460 a freaking disaster. And that is what I care the most about. But I also don't want to have these
00:34:25.460 murder scene periods because all of my genes have blood all over them. Yeah, I know. There's a lot
00:34:32.320 of things. And what I like to tell women to reiterate is that we're not going to fix everything. 1.00
00:34:37.620 We're certainly not going to fix everything all at once, but make a list of what's bothering you 0.53
00:34:41.980 the most. And let's say the bloody periods are at the top. Okay. The progesterone involved in the
00:34:48.960 bill will help with that, right? Or if you're skipping altogether, that can help. And then
00:34:53.220 it sounds like sleep is next for you okay i would keep an eye like i said you know what are your
00:34:59.220 habits what is on your mind try that getting out of bed thing rule out any other issues try to get
00:35:06.540 up at the same time every day to you know approximately the same time and and let's see 0.97
00:35:11.580 it is a lot of trial and error which of course is a pain in the ass i i get it you know who has time 0.99
00:35:17.720 That's a pain in the ass. I just I just want an easy fix. And to be honest, if men went through this, there would be an easy fix. 0.99
00:35:25.000 Well, I don't disagree. And that's why we need to keep talking and funding and voting and normalizing it because we do need better solutions.
00:35:35.440 solutions. This past week in particular, actually, there had been some really good news coming out
00:35:43.020 in this space. There was another drug that was just FDA approved for women with personal histories
00:35:50.380 of breast cancer. And it's a non-hormonal drug that can help significantly with hot lashes. So
00:35:55.960 we love that. We love options. And that's really the point. We need more options because it's not
00:36:02.520 one size fits all. It's not one size fits all. We do need more options. We have to keep talking
00:36:08.720 about it. It is all my friends talk about, by the way. We talk about the Louvre heist and we talk
00:36:15.300 about this. I have not gone to a gathering of women in their 40s in the past year where
00:36:22.460 perimenopause has not come up. Have you? So it's interesting. I would say with my friends who are
00:36:29.740 in their 40s, like you're 45-ish. It's a topic, which I love. For my friends who are in their
00:36:36.560 late 30s and 40s, they still get funny about the word menopause. No, really? Yeah. I think some of
00:36:46.320 it does have to do with fertility and maybe they're not done having babies. And so they do feel
00:36:53.360 nervousness around the end of fertility and their change in identity. And I totally get that.
00:37:01.240 But we also know from research that if you have a negative attitude about it, if you're dreading
00:37:06.580 the change, you may be at risk of more severe symptoms. So at the very least,
00:37:12.480 do yourself a favor and be curious and hopefully optimistic.
00:37:16.340 i hadn't thought about it like that in terms of worrying that somehow just talking about menopause
00:37:24.040 or preparing for it feels like a heart like something that could be terrible for your
00:37:29.420 fertility of course it is but to be honest i didn't start thinking about this until after i
00:37:34.160 had my babies i was so focused on fertility and breastfeeding and all of that but i also finished
00:37:40.360 having babies at 42. Right. Right. But I have a few friends and clients who are in their mid-30s
00:37:47.780 and they don't have children yet. And so they even hear menopause and they're like, that's not for
00:37:52.420 me. I don't want to even think about it. And I get that. But again, knowledge is power and you
00:37:57.000 should be thinking about it. You should know what it means if your period suddenly changed.
00:38:01.480 You should, as a general rule of thumb, speak with a reproductive endocrinologist by age 35
00:38:06.100 so that you know your options. And I just don't think that burying our heads in the sand is good
00:38:12.500 because menopause is happening. So we might as well go into it prepared. Exactly. But I mean,
00:38:18.340 it goes back to what we said before about this stigma, that it has been so stigmatized and made
00:38:22.820 to seem like it's also the end of your fertile years or somehow the end of your time as a woman
00:38:29.900 in the world and then we become like an old shriveled up crone or something and so I get it
00:38:38.040 that you don't want to think about menopause while you're still especially if you're still
00:38:43.000 hoping to have babies and I didn't I mean I had babies I'm trying to think I'm like 35 30 or no
00:38:51.000 37 39 42 uh and yeah I didn't think about it until 42 but that was three years ago and that
00:38:59.560 was also when there was this huge you know the menopause surge where everyone started talking
00:39:03.780 about it but i want us to talk about all these life stages for a woman all the time that's what
00:39:09.160 feels that's that's what feels good to me agree and in general i think it is valuable of course
00:39:15.780 to have the freeze perimenopause or menopause transition yes we need labels but i kind of
00:39:22.980 hate labels like i don't care if you're in perimenopause if you're stressed or you feel 0.74
00:39:27.480 like shit or your sleep is bad, let's work on that. Let's get you the help we need. And we do 0.97
00:39:32.700 need diagnoses for insurance and also for treatment options, right? Because a postpartum woman might 1.00
00:39:40.160 not need hormone therapy, but a woman who's both postpartum and perimenopausal, which happens a 0.99
00:39:47.000 lot, she may need hormone therapy. So yes, it's important to have the labels, but I would say
00:39:53.260 focus on your symptoms and I tend to treat the symptoms, not the label. Yeah, I think that's
00:39:58.860 right. I think that's right. Tell everyone where they can find more of your work and this wonderful
00:40:04.460 book, Millennial Menopause. Thank you. It's available wherever books are sold. If you go
00:40:09.740 to millennialmenopause.com, you can see all the links to Amazon, Barnes & Noble, etc., as well
00:40:15.440 as my book tour coming to the South Jersey area in November and Miami and New York, which is where
00:40:23.660 I live. And I am available on Instagram as the counselor. Counselor, but L-E-U-R. Thanks so
00:40:32.560 much for being here. Thanks, Jeff.
00:40:45.440 Thank you.
00:41:15.440 Thank you.