Vulgar History - September 07, 2022


International, part 25: Empress Sisi's Unhappy Marriage (pt 2⧸3)

International, part 24: Empress Sisi: Teen Horse Girl (pt 1⧸3) International, part 26: Empress Sisi: Final Years (3⧸3)

Episode Stats


Harmful content

Misogyny

85

sentences flagged

Toxicity

10

sentences flagged

Hate speech

32

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Ready to take your investing knowledge to pro-level? This is Fidelity Connects,
00:00:04.400 your daily edge in the markets. Get deep insights on real-time market topics that
00:00:08.860 may impact your investment portfolio. Listen to Fidelity Connects on Spotify today and power
00:00:13.500 your next move tomorrow. Hello and welcome to Vulgar History, 0.88
00:00:28.920 of Feminist Women's History Comedy Podcast. My name is Anne Foster, and this is Empress Cece
00:00:33.860 Part 2 with special guest Lana Wood Johnson, Cece superfan, and Habsburg expert. So last
00:00:42.960 time we laid all the groundwork for what's going on, where are we in the world, what
00:00:48.940 era are we in, what's going on with the Bavarian royal family, etc. And this week we really
00:00:53.440 get into what Cece did as Empress of Austria. So there are numerous content warnings, and we're
00:01:01.220 going to bring them up during the episode as they happen. All the time codes will be in the
00:01:06.120 show notes, so you can just look down there if you want to skip ahead. I don't know, you can go to
00:01:10.740 five minutes from the end if you just want to hear the wrap up. But I mean, spoiler, there's
00:01:15.200 going to be a part three. So anyway, here's me and Lana talking about Cece. Now, quote unquote,
00:01:22.360 political meddling
00:01:23.700 which is how it was
00:01:25.040 described in some stuff
00:01:25.980 and I like
00:01:26.860 I wanted to reclaim that
00:01:28.780 being a queen
00:01:30.900 yeah
00:01:31.600 meddling 1.00
00:01:32.760 early in her reign 1.00
00:01:34.480 Cece developed
00:01:35.220 a deep interest
00:01:35.860 in Hungary
00:01:36.520 this is where
00:01:38.240 you're going to jump in
00:01:38.900 all over the place 0.97
00:01:39.440 Lana please
00:01:40.080 which was then
00:01:41.200 a rebellious part
00:01:42.180 of the empire
00:01:43.200 so
00:01:44.600 she was interested
00:01:45.600 in Hungary
00:01:46.000 partially because
00:01:46.940 one of her
00:01:47.920 childhood tutors
00:01:49.480 like back when
00:01:50.260 she was living
00:01:50.740 with her family
00:01:51.340 where she was happy
00:01:52.360 had been from Hungary originally. And so he was teaching her like whatever history and things,
00:01:57.100 but just inherently from a Hungarian point of view. So she like had some interest and some
00:02:01.080 knowledge in it. In 1857, she visited Hungary for the first time with her husband and two
00:02:06.100 daughters. And this was, seems like it was her idea because Sophie was just like, what the fuck 0.99
00:02:10.060 are you doing? Why are you going to fucking Hungary? And she's just like, it's the thing 1.00
00:02:14.240 we're doing. Bye. And this left a deep and lasting impression on her probably, or perhaps
00:02:19.740 Because in Hungary, she found a welcome respite from the constraints of Austrian court life.
00:02:24.000 Like, frankly, she could have gone and hidden under a train bridge somewhere and been like, oh, I feel better.
00:02:29.160 Like, if she just got out of that palace, like, anyway, Hungary was a place where people were nice to her and she could, like, breathe again. 0.85
00:02:37.580 At the beginning, at the beginning of the Habsburg Empire, Hungary was this tiny little backwards nowhere, like nothing part of the empire.
00:02:47.000 and then and and then great grandpa lost the holy roman empire to napoleon and now 0.69
00:02:55.540 hungary's half of the empire like a like at the equal in size to austria equal in power
00:03:03.460 equal in earnings and they they don't have as much of an excuse to treat them like
00:03:09.360 a backwater nowhere as they did when they had spain and holland and
00:03:15.720 yeah all of those parts proportionately it is suddenly much more important to them yes and
00:03:23.240 it's power it's relative power is increased significantly and i would say cc recognized
00:03:30.020 that in a way that perhaps other people did not um but also she just like liked it there they
00:03:35.720 seem nice so she went to hungary both of her daughters who were both like babies slash
00:03:42.140 toddlers they both became ill sophie was like you shouldn't have taken them there
00:03:45.720 So Gizella recovered quickly, but two-year-old Sophie grew steadily weaker and then died probably of typhus.
00:03:52.300 Someone did not wash their hands.
00:03:55.060 That is like, I'm thinking of doing a new vulgar history bingo card.
00:04:00.120 And I think someone didn't wash their hands. 0.96
00:04:02.300 Semicolon death is going to be on it.
00:04:05.340 Anyway, so this was a further wedge between her and her mother-in-law because the mother-in-law especially liked baby Sophie because it was like the baby she named herself.
00:04:13.700 herself anyway cc guess what got really depressed like because she had like i'm sure she had like 1.00
00:04:20.300 postpartum stuff going on anyway she had her like ongoing mental health concerns and then
00:04:25.300 her toddler just died and sophie i'm sure is being like it's your fault for taking her hungry
00:04:29.880 so at this point it seems she turned away from gizela her only living child um began neglecting
00:04:39.500 her and their relationship never recovered she like basically was just like pushed her away and
00:04:43.860 every time we're gonna like the next part we're gonna get into like her coping mechanisms anyway
00:04:51.860 she turned towards these coping mechanisms especially when she was depressed which from
00:04:56.620 this point on she is a lot when she experiences bouts of depression yes she experiences bouts of
00:05:03.740 depression. And they are sometimes triggered by the deaths of people who she loves. And this is
00:05:10.760 one of those. I just want to talk a bit more about Hungary before we get into that stuff.
00:05:15.100 So she was just like, I really want to get a Hungarian woman to join my entourage, 0.94
00:05:18.920 like a little more servants who are like Hungarian. She just really saw their importance
00:05:22.400 and she liked them. And so I love this detail because it's so mysterious. So she's like,
00:05:26.440 I want to get a Hungarian woman as my lady in waiting. And so she's presented with a list of
00:05:30.060 names of the highest echelon of Hungarian women. And at the bottom of the list written in a
00:05:36.720 different handwriting was the name of Ida Ferenczi. So no one knows who wrote that name
00:05:43.720 there or why. Because she was a Hungarian noblewoman, but she was nowhere near as high
00:05:50.960 class as the other people on the list. And Cece was like, I choose her. And they became great 0.86
00:05:56.260 friends from ida which is maybe ida i'm not sure they became very close help you with hungarian
00:06:04.020 hungarian is an entirely different language from every other language in europe except for finnish
00:06:09.820 and i can't help with finnish either the names when i started getting into the hungarian people
00:06:14.420 i'm like oh this is bringing me back to the elizabeth bathory episode like the names look
00:06:18.080 similar to that anyway so ida i'm gonna say they became very close um and cc learned to speak
00:06:24.980 fluent hungarian from her as well as more information about the country such that upon
00:06:30.360 a later visit to hungary she impressed surprised everyone because she like gave opening remarks in
00:06:35.400 completely fluent like perfect flawless accent hungarian and everyone's like wait when did
00:06:39.560 when did cc learn hungarian and she's just like guess what i have an affinity for languages
00:06:43.720 and everyone always underestimates me well they let me do yeah while i'm having my hair done
00:06:51.600 I learn languages. Anyway, we'll talk about that too. But while they're on the second or the
00:06:58.160 subsequent visit, she met the dashing Hungarian statesman, Gyula Andrasi, who had become one of 0.82
00:07:04.160 her close friends for the rest of her life. He was also, I have to say, a smoke show. He was 0.95
00:07:09.460 very good looking. Not a coincidence. Cece preferred to only hang out with very, very
00:07:15.040 extremely good looking people. That's a preference she had. Anyway.
00:07:19.280 your face are problematic but he gula andrasi was like a cool friend to her they were very close
00:07:27.240 he was a they like he respected her and cared what she thought and they like worked together
00:07:33.460 and that was like good for her she's got like a friend in 1934 so just to give you
00:07:39.540 future information this guy wrote so a man named patrick lee firmer visited hungary in 1934 this
00:07:48.240 is like decades after Cece's death. And he noted that her pictures of her were framed on desks and
00:07:52.980 tables and grand pianos. And her love for Hungary and Hungarians was returned with interest and
00:07:57.120 still declared 36 years after her death with all the ardor of Burke for Marie Antoinette.
00:08:02.800 I don't know who Burke is, but basically she was beloved by Hungary. Like even years after she
00:08:08.500 died, people just like, remember her. She was great to Hungary. In December, 1857, Cece became
00:08:15.620 pregnant for the third time in three years. And she's still what, like 20 years old. And her
00:08:21.560 mother who had been concerned about her like ongoing, obvious, visible health issues, hope 0.99
00:08:28.560 that this new pregnancy would help her recover, which is like the opposite of what pregnancy does 0.99
00:08:34.800 to people with health problems slash mental health problems, which brings us to. That's not how
00:08:40.900 hormones work gigantic content warning for disordered eating body dysmorphia what else
00:08:49.600 anorexia anorexia the exercise anorexia as well as as severe disordered eating and fat phobia
00:09:00.560 like so much fat phobia that she would hate me and that's okay I still love her she I mean
00:09:07.460 you have that in common with queen victoria don't don't tell me i have things in common with victoria
00:09:14.940 well thank i mean all i have in common with victoria yeah anyway so this is just this is
00:09:22.820 a content warning for all that stuff so we're going to put the time stamp for this in the
00:09:26.460 episode so you could just like skip ahead and you'll know when you can come back or if you
00:09:29.760 just want to skip ahead to the scoring we'll put that time stamp in as well and so we're going to
00:09:33.840 talk about I we're not getting into like the CC diet which is like so much of what I read was
00:09:40.480 just like here's what she ate here's what she exercised and here's her weight and her waist 0.94
00:09:44.440 measurement that I don't give a shit that's not what we're talking about we're just talking about 0.98
00:09:48.420 how her mental illness manifested is not as interesting as the fact that she was she was 0.98
00:09:54.080 dealing with a mental illness and working around it for the rest of her life exactly extreme degree
00:10:00.900 exactly and i think based on like when people when newspapers wrote about her in her era they
00:10:07.460 were like here's her diet here's her exercise plan and i think it was was with the intent of
00:10:10.840 like other people should do it too and i really which is like no she has okay so cc was this is 0.86
00:10:18.040 notable and i find interesting five foot eight so she was tall for anyone as tall as me really
00:10:23.820 yeah i didn't know you were five foot eight yes is that why you're drawn to mary queen of scots
00:10:30.320 as well also all the tall ladies oh no I'm drawn to Mary Queen of Scots because my family all thinks
00:10:36.020 that I'm related to Mary Queen of Scots even though I've definitively proven that we're not
00:10:39.860 related to Mary Queen of Scots but they still argue with me well your family is German my family
00:10:46.240 is every northern European okay that is not does not touch the Mediterranean yeah it's it's Irish
00:10:54.740 english scottish swedish norwegian dutch german so you've got a lot of german on all four sides
00:11:02.820 and and i feel like the german people are tall or like the scandinavian people are tall
00:11:07.900 um german people have tend because they are very agrarian society um tend to have adequate diets
00:11:17.900 as young people, height is very strongly correlated to the adequacy of your diet
00:11:24.080 when you're young and breastfeeding and a lot of these other characteristics. So
00:11:31.760 when you're not malnourished, you tend to grow taller. So Germans historically have been taller 0.99
00:11:38.220 because like their nobles ate vegetables. That was a weird trait about Germans is that their 1.00
00:11:45.080 nobility also ate vegetables they didn't just eat meat and bread so like everybody ate vegetables 0.95
00:11:51.260 everybody ate meat everybody well not everybody but like more people ate meat so every more people
00:11:56.480 were much taller not quite swedish tall where everybody grew up on cow's milk and just giant
00:12:03.600 bones but yeah so cc was five foot eight which i'm gonna say based on what everything you just 0.62
00:12:09.840 told me was maybe not that weirdly tall for a Bavarian woman. I mean, it's taller for the, 1.00
00:12:16.680 it's, it's taller than normal, but like, it's tall for a woman in general. Yeah. True. On the 1.00
00:12:22.480 upper end of, of, of, it sounds like super tall, but like my, my best friend is six one. So
00:12:29.060 six foot. So like women, women can be any height, but on the average, she, she, yeah. So she, 1.00
00:12:37.560 she would be a tall woman for now she would be she would have been a tall woman for that so she 0.91
00:12:43.220 was in terms of just like the effect she had on people i think it would be oh we're gonna talk 1.00
00:12:48.380 about what she looks like later well i'll say right now she had ankle length hair she had the 1.00
00:12:53.940 hair of oh massive ankle length hair not like the thin scraggly and it grew that long it was
00:13:01.200 it was a main yeah every portrait like she curly girled she yeah she so if you just picture it 1.00
00:13:09.160 like before i even talk about any of this other stuff if you picture a five foot eight woman 1.00
00:13:13.100 with a very pretty face walks into a room and she has ankle length like she has the hair of like 1.00
00:13:18.840 a barbie doll but longer like voluminous thick it's just like this is gonna turn heads like she 0.99
00:13:25.320 is a striking looking person. Also the hair is what I think to me before I learned all this
00:13:32.940 stuff was part of mostly what I knew about her. Anyway, so she was tall. She was also very thin 0.85
00:13:40.340 because of, well, I don't know. I think maybe she was slim. She had a very tight, she had a very 0.96
00:13:48.480 small waist she was a tight corset person so um what people think historical corsets were like 0.90
00:13:55.560 she was that person oh my god yeah actual corsets were like so she was she was like fuller up top
00:14:02.820 fuller in the hips and very very slim waist yeah which is different than being just thin
00:14:08.760 it's it's it's a it's it's a different aesthetic than being someone who who is is a lot more
00:14:18.480 straight she was like hourglass definitely and this is why i'm glad you're here as well so lana
00:14:22.760 i forgot we didn't say at the beginning but people probably know you're one of the co-hosts
00:14:26.700 of vulgar peace theater on patreon and almost every movie we've done so far has had some sort
00:14:31.020 of like historical undergarments moment and that's where you shine i didn't know that was
00:14:36.740 strength of mine but historical anger garments here i am but so cc um yeah so she did tight
00:14:44.080 lacing so there's this like it's a pet peeve of so many like historical caution people i know
00:14:49.600 i don't know costume designers i follow on social media and stuff where it's just like in bridgerton
00:14:54.900 like in bridgerton in the regency era they're like oh let's pull your corset tighter it's like
00:14:59.780 you realize that the dresses don't have waists like that's not but all those the things about
00:15:05.220 like holding onto the bedpost while like five servants put like CC did that. It took like three 0.94
00:15:11.020 hours to get her laced as effectively as she wanted to be. Regular corsets weren't strong
00:15:16.940 enough for what, for the look she was going for. So she went to, she said, I want the, 0.81
00:15:21.280 what the courtesans in Paris have, like, what are they doing? I want that. And what that was, 0.99
00:15:25.440 was leather. Modern day equivalent is Violet Tchotchke from Drag Race. Like very much that 1.00
00:15:33.020 tight lacing trainer super aesthetic super super stiff to keep it going violet if she could have 1.00
00:15:42.620 she would have had her bottom ribs removed level oh if that was a thing yeah she would have had 1.00
00:15:48.880 her body as morpheo was very extreme and if if um plastic surgery had been allowed oh yeah as much 1.00
00:15:55.780 as she liked natural being natural looking if plastic surgery had been allowed it would have 0.99
00:16:00.820 been a strong temptation for her. Definitely. So she, and even with the leather corset, it was
00:16:05.620 laced so tightly, like even like this, you needed that strength to support all the body mass that
00:16:11.400 was being distended, but also eventually those would wear out as well. So she, that was a thing
00:16:16.960 she did. And which is also interesting that that's her preference because her mother-in-law
00:16:22.780 expected her to be continuously pregnant. And she was just like, guess how not pregnant I am right
00:16:29.220 now. So disordered eating patterns were a thing that happened, were, I don't know, a thing she 0.80
00:16:36.500 did. This was a manifestation of her mental illness for her whole life. She, she was very
00:16:42.640 like calorically restricted. She would do fasting when, when it was, when she didn't match up to 0.99
00:16:52.320 this mental equivalent in her head. It's also probably interesting to note that Sophie was
00:16:58.340 not a small woman. And so there's probably a manifestation of that as well. I am, I am not a
00:17:06.760 small woman. So when I say like she, Sophie was probably also fat, Queen Victoria, that, that kind
00:17:17.220 of, there was, there was a trend at the time, not to be slim, not to be skinny. That was not the
00:17:23.980 trend at the time that was not what you wanted to be you wanted to have some some weight to you
00:17:29.480 so you wanted to show your wealth yeah exactly so this it's not like other examples of like
00:17:35.980 people who lose a lot of weight because it's like heroin chic or whatever it's not it's not like
00:17:40.500 everyone wants to look really thin it's like no cc was doing this because this was how her body
00:17:44.280 dysmorphia was manifesting she didn't want to look like this to fit in or to like to impress
00:17:49.800 other people it was just like this is what she wanted that's how she felt her body should look
00:17:55.760 yeah and she was going to do whatever it took to achieve that just one sec and it was not it was
00:18:02.240 not to match trends it was not like today in this day and age it's a very different
00:18:07.480 manifestation of the same things so today especially in the 90s it was very looked up to
00:18:15.740 the cc diet her exercising her scorpia was was glorified nowadays we would glorify it but we
00:18:24.220 would understand it but that back then it didn't make sense it was interesting to read about the
00:18:30.460 stuff she did like the caloric restriction so she did a lot of exercise all the time
00:18:35.920 and that's such a right but it's such a mainstream thing like you and i are similar-ish ages but like
00:18:43.000 growing up in the 80s 90s the early 2000s it's just like every woman's magazine is like here's
00:18:47.700 how you exercise to lose weight and here's how you diet to lose weight so it's just like that's
00:18:51.480 just what life is like and life should not be like that and that's a shitty way to live but um
00:18:57.380 CC was doing this at a time what was mainstream so Evan was just like oh what is she doing like
00:19:03.000 like it confused people because they weren't familiar with obviously with like mental illness 0.99
00:19:09.800 they didn't know about anorexia let alone even the fact like it was scandalous that like a woman 1.00
00:19:15.500 was doing exercise everyone's just like what a woman like she had like balance beams or whatever 1.00
00:19:20.220 like she was like doing exercise was a thing men do for military training it wasn't a thing women 1.00
00:19:25.320 do yeah she's doing like calisthenics like that was shocking to people but it was with the it was 0.69
00:19:36.440 a manifestation of this body dysmorphia disorder eating stuff um she only wanted to be around
00:19:42.980 attractive looking other people when her daughter gisela first met queen victoria um gisela was 0.94
00:19:50.280 terrified because cc had just like trained her daughters to also be horrified by fat people 0.98
00:19:56.760 screaming and running away from victoria i understand that part but because of her size
00:20:03.020 that I disagree with fundamentally.
00:20:06.400 Cece and Victoria-
00:20:07.280 That's not this episode.
00:20:08.820 No, that'll be a whole other thing.
00:20:12.000 I don't think I have this in all my notes,
00:20:13.640 but like later on in her life
00:20:14.500 when Cece was spending a lot of time in England,
00:20:16.340 she kept standing up Queen Victoria.
00:20:18.120 It's like a fabulous series of just like,
00:20:20.460 she's just like, I don't feel like seeing her.
00:20:21.860 So I'm just going to like not go.
00:20:22.960 She would like ghost Queen Victoria.
00:20:24.900 It's like-
00:20:25.900 Now you see why I like her.
00:20:27.460 Yeah.
00:20:28.780 I'm starting to understand. 0.98
00:20:29.600 so she had the disorder eating the fasting she had the leg like the exercising again i don't 0.99
00:20:37.580 want to get into the details but it's like hours a day of just like various horseback riding she
00:20:44.160 was she was very physical she had to keep moving it was part of it it was part of her attempt to
00:20:51.240 look i and she said this before her attempts to continue looking exactly like she did when she
00:20:57.580 was basically 15 like when she walked through the door she never wanted to change and and there's a
00:21:04.280 lot of psychological pieces of that that manifest like this was when she was happy was when she was
00:21:12.060 tiny when she looked like this when she felt like this when she when she exercised and ran 0.61
00:21:17.000 but she couldn't climb trees as a 32 year old queen so she had a balance beam and yeah
00:21:24.860 and then that stuff yeah and i think it also connects to if we're just like
00:21:31.920 we're not deep diving into her psychology but like there's an element of like
00:21:37.340 desexualization to what she was doing as well where her body was if she wanted personalization
00:21:44.580 yeah so if she wants to be like the person she was when she was 15 like before she became the
00:21:48.640 empress before she had to move here before she had children yeah so there's like a couple people
00:21:53.980 later in her story where people are like oh is it her lover and i'm like i feel like she is not a
00:21:58.040 sexual person no whatsoever she likes to be around pretty people but she has a lot of characteristics 0.73
00:22:07.240 that that would make me not surprised if she identified as asexual yeah or on that spectrum 0.99
00:22:13.360 yeah so again like she so we're going to talk next about her beauty regime which i think i'm 0.58
00:22:20.100 going to keep within the content warning era of just like cc psychology because it's still 0.60
00:22:25.060 body dysmorphia it's it's an it's it's a different kind of manifestation yeah so she was obsessed
00:22:30.760 with looking like she wasn't she's 15 she was obsessed with her own personal beauty but again
00:22:36.420 it wasn't to attract people it wasn't to be alluring it wasn't like she hated like when
00:22:43.220 people looked at her when she was out but she was just like this is yeah this is what i want to look
00:22:47.100 so her hair daily care was three hours a day she washed it like once a month there's all these like 0.95
00:22:54.500 you can google this it's like here's what her shampoo was made of like who cares but um but
00:22:59.020 it took a whole day to shampoo her hair like yeah it was it was a whole like yeah it was a whole
00:23:04.000 process no that's the thing where you're just like oh i can't go out tonight i'm washing my hair it's
00:23:07.920 like true for her and i love this detail though so she they went to the theater and she saw the
00:23:15.200 main actress in this play had this great hairstyle. She's like, who did the hair? And it was this
00:23:18.500 woman, Franziska Feifelek, who was just like a stage hairdresser, like a lower class person who
00:23:24.980 just like was skilled. And Cece was like, and I'm going to hire her and she's going to be my, 0.99
00:23:29.720 and that became her job. She got like an official job, bring me to the palace. Like she was the one
00:23:33.900 who would tend to Cece's hair every day. Franziska would create, so it became like a
00:23:39.560 art partnership almost like not quite at first i was like oh this is like a famous like stylist
00:23:47.160 actress relationship where she's creating these looks for her and cc had stunning dresses there's
00:23:53.300 this famous thing she had the cc stars these like diamond encrusted stars i forget how many they're 0.86
00:23:59.260 like 25 or something that she would just like pin throughout her hair so she walks in a room and
00:24:03.680 you're just like, oh, is this like literally a Disney princess come to life moment? Like
00:24:08.920 Ankle likes hair with diamond stars. Anyway, so Franziska, they became very close as you would
00:24:15.520 if someone is like spending three hours dealing with your hair that is so important to you.
00:24:21.780 Franziska would accompany her on her wanderings. She's always with her. She's forbidden to wear
00:24:27.380 rings and required to wear white gloves. The hairs that fell out when she was combing her hair had to 1.00
00:24:33.040 be presented in a silver bowl to cc for inspection and she was always mad if any hairs came out i 0.98
00:24:37.060 read that francisca would as she's coming and hairs came out to just like tuck them in like 0.99
00:24:41.240 her bodice just so cc wouldn't so she could present her with uh also that that body dysmorphia 1.00
00:24:46.140 she doesn't want to change she doesn't want her her body to change in any way yeah she doesn't 0.89
00:24:51.480 want to lose a single hair but francisca figured out how to work around that um during the hours 0.86
00:24:57.120 long hairdressing session cc worked at learning languages she spoke fluent english and french 1.00
00:25:02.440 added modern Greek to her. She'd already learned Hungarian. So her Greek tutor, Konstantin 0.92
00:25:08.300 Christomonos, described the ritual. Hairdressing takes almost two hours, she said. While my hair
00:25:14.000 is busy, my mind stays idle. I'm afraid that my mind escapes through the hair and onto the fingers
00:25:18.920 of my hairdresser, hence my headache afterwards. The empress sat at a table, which was moved to 0.63
00:25:23.440 the middle of the room and covered with a white cloth. She was shrouded in a white laced penoir, 0.87
00:25:27.420 her hair unfastened reaching to the floor and folded her entire body the amount of hair like 0.99
00:25:34.100 it would obviously give her headaches unsurprisingly so they would do like a thing
00:25:39.820 where they're like pin it all up and she would lie down and that would help so it's yeah it's
00:25:44.280 just everything is like it's another extreme right it's another like this no one expected
00:25:50.860 you to have ankle length hair but this is what she wanted to look like growing up one of my mom's
00:25:58.460 friends had like butt length hair and during the winter she'd wrap it around her neck like a scarf 0.77
00:26:06.420 so it wouldn't get caught in her zippers yeah like it it becomes its own personality like this
00:26:12.700 own thing you have to deal with and work around for your entire life absolutely one special ways
00:26:18.600 to sleep. Yeah. It's like, I don't know. It's an extra limb. A friend of mine during when the
00:26:28.680 pandemic started, she already had long hair and she just didn't get it cut for a while. And then
00:26:31.960 eventually it became like butt length hair. And when she was like, okay, I'm sitting on my hair
00:26:36.020 and I want to sit, she decided to get it cut. But yeah, it was such a thing. So Cece used cosmetics
00:26:42.900 and perfumes sparingly as she wished to showcase her natural beauty, which I think also comes back 0.99
00:26:48.240 to being like the fresh-faced 15 year old that she was she didn't want to look so her whole thing
00:26:54.460 was natural beauty and then by age 32 she decided she did not want the public image of her beauty
00:27:00.540 challenged so therefore she did not sit for any more portraits and would not allow any photographs
00:27:04.700 um when the whole um the the paparazzi incident happened and she like covered her face with a fan
00:27:13.280 Yeah. So that's the thing, like in her later years, she would, she would walk around with a fan to cover her face and a white parasol. So it's just like fan parasol. It's just like, okay, that looks like that.
00:27:22.940 I think we're emerging from this passage. So this can be the second timestamp for people who want to rejoin us after that. And now we're just going to take a break for a word from our sponsors.
00:27:35.420 the war is over and both sides lost kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered
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00:30:27.240 new episodes every friday and we're back so franz joseph was quote passionately in love with his
00:30:37.040 wife obsessively in love with his wife obsessed with her with his wife with her beauty he also
00:30:46.460 liked her personality like he he he was a fanboy of his wife yeah yeah and in like an okay way
00:30:54.380 not in like a AC Hortense Mancini way he was like yeah um he was not like you know knocking
00:31:03.080 out her teeth so nobody would admire her or whatever so she did not reciprocate his feelings
00:31:08.820 fully and felt increasingly stifled by the rigidness of court life but again like just
00:31:14.180 personality wise and it's like they married when she was 16 and he was 23 or whatever
00:31:19.260 she's like become an adult person now and her personality is more solidifying and she's just
00:31:27.140 like um she was described as being restless to the point of hyperactivity she was naturally
00:31:35.480 introverted just like these were her personality traits and they didn't go with this like army guy
00:31:40.860 who's just like a very compared to her very straightforward person i mean he was a really
00:31:47.240 good Habsburg. For other Habsburgs that you haven't seen that many, but like some of them
00:31:53.720 were just flighty jerks. Like he was actually good at it. He was not a bad dude at all. 1.00
00:32:00.100 I have to say he's like the fact that he's like an okay person and like a decent leader. I'm just
00:32:05.420 like surprised and impressed. He didn't know how to make his wife love him and he didn't know how
00:32:11.520 to make her life better and he didn't like meet her as a person, but he really liked her. Like
00:32:17.760 he liked that she existed. He liked being around her. Yeah. He didn't have the capacity to see why
00:32:24.700 she was fundamentally unhappy with the life that he gave her. He wasn't equipped to, he wasn't
00:32:34.500 equipped in any way to like help her, but he didn't treat her like, he didn't treat her like
00:32:40.140 a child and he didn't treat her like an object. And that was really important. Yeah. And then
00:32:47.960 we're going to get, I'll say it now, even though it's in my notes later is that she, as she grew
00:32:52.460 up, she became an adult after years of marriage. She came to understand better how to deal with
00:33:01.560 him, which was just like, he had been like, not coddled isn't the right word, but just like he
00:33:06.160 had been brought up as like the air and whatever. And he was used to everybody. I was doing what he
00:33:10.280 said. So when she challenged him, she was just like, I want this, give it to me. He'd be like
00:33:14.180 so startled and surprised. And he liked her. He'd be like, okay. He liked having someone that would
00:33:20.280 challenge him. He liked having someone that would talk back. So she, as, as their relationship
00:33:24.460 developed and as she matured, she realized like, oh, I can do this. Like I don't. Yeah. She wasn't
00:33:29.820 married to Sophie. It's not a problem. Yeah. She's not married to Sophie. Like he actually
00:33:35.820 will like do stuff for her sometimes when she asks very clearly yeah so she didn't like her
00:33:42.120 duties of life at court she avoided that as much as she could there was a lot of like oh no i have
00:33:46.320 a toothache sorry i can't go to that thing which is partially just like she hated it and partially
00:33:51.140 just like she knew there was this she had developed this expectation that she would show up on this
00:33:56.000 show-stopping look and she knew it would take extra hours to have her hair prepared for that
00:34:01.600 And it's just like, I don't want to go through that.
00:34:03.180 Like, so it's like, I'm just going to not, I'm going to opt out.
00:34:07.520 He constantly unsuccessfully tried to tempt her into a more domestic life with him, but
00:34:12.800 that was not for her.
00:34:15.900 She slept very little and spent hours reading and writing at night and took up smoking,
00:34:22.340 which I don't know if at that point people knew it could be a weight loss technique,
00:34:27.800 but maybe that helped with her anxiety.
00:34:30.880 I don't know.
00:34:31.600 um but this helps giving oral fixation to to not have some not eat yeah it like she would have 1.00
00:34:39.020 figured that out real fast yeah so this was a shocking habit for women which made her the 1.00
00:34:44.380 further subject of already avid gossip um the thing she ever did was ever going to make her 1.00
00:34:49.840 not the subject of gossip so might as well do whatever you want might as well if that makes
00:34:53.800 her feel good then okay so then 1858 she gave birth to a son who was named rudolph
00:35:00.740 and this
00:35:02.700 signaled an increase to her influence
00:35:05.140 at court because she had to deliver 0.97
00:35:06.920 the air
00:35:07.480 she did her job 0.55
00:35:11.300 but then like in a very canny
00:35:13.200 way now that she knew that she
00:35:15.020 had a bit more influence and power
00:35:17.220 and she had this interest in
00:35:19.060 Hungary this made her an ideal mediator
00:35:21.260 between Hungary and her
00:35:23.140 husband so she had this friend
00:35:25.040 Andrasi who she like wrote
00:35:27.180 to and they were like
00:35:28.760 he was like a good friend this is i'm honestly really happy and surprised this is the third
00:35:36.260 episode we've had with like a young-ish woman who has like a platonic male friend who is like
00:35:42.140 a good dude like i like it we've had christina had azzolino and then hortense had ac and now
00:35:50.680 she's got andrasi just like a guy who was just like not trying to sleep with her but was like
00:35:54.340 just like a good friend or take advantage of her. Like not, he's not, he's not going into this
00:35:59.860 going, I could be made premier of Hungary. It's like, yeah. Like she genuinely hungry. You like
00:36:05.880 Hungary. Let's work together to make it better. Exactly. Exactly. And she had the son and she's
00:36:10.240 like, okay, like I have a bit more power and influence. So like, let me just like use my
00:36:13.920 skills I have now to like convince my husband to do stuff. Yeah. So her interest in politics
00:36:19.480 had developed as she matured. She was liberal minded and placed herself decisively on the
00:36:23.620 Hungarian side in the increasing conflict of nationalities within the empire can I just point
00:36:28.960 out this is the time where nationality suddenly became a thing like beforehand there was these
00:36:34.320 people that were high above transcended everything like kings and emperors and whatnot yeah now this
00:36:42.500 is the time where where German identity like Bismarck was consolidating Germany and in the
00:36:49.560 middle of all of this, France Fernand was like, or France Fernand, France Joseph, France Fernand's
00:36:54.220 not till later. France Joseph was like fighting Germany, fighting Prussia for influence over
00:37:02.020 Germany. And Italy was fighting for liberation because they don't parts, they own parts of 0.61
00:37:06.620 Tuscany and Lombard region. And they lost that because Italy became Italy. Like it wasn't Italy
00:37:14.820 before and now it is and like all of these places are starting to get a national identity as opposed
00:37:22.560 to like this these weird either small parts or like way too big parts and so Hungary was sitting
00:37:32.600 in the middle of this going well you lost everything else why don't we why don't we rebel
00:37:37.660 like why don't we become our own thing because and and this this was a chance like this was the
00:37:45.400 question of the time is do you stay with these foreigners who own you or do you break off and
00:37:52.580 become your own thing yeah this is such a like this time period and this is one of maybe the
00:37:59.800 most recent story i've ever done on the podcast but it's really it's that shift from like the
00:38:05.120 what i consider like oldie times to like a map of europe that i would recognize
00:38:09.900 where it's like this country this country this country instead of just like all these kingdoms
00:38:14.480 or whatever thank you for that context because this is we'll remember this when we get to her 1.00
00:38:19.860 scoring for significance because she was like all like this hungarian this wouldn't have happened 0.86
00:38:26.100 without her like she was actively making this happen because she really was on the side of 0.87
00:38:33.080 the hungarians well and the austrians thought they were too good for the hungarians so there
00:38:37.940 was no one to there was no one to advocate for them within france joseph's circle except for her
00:38:43.480 and he appreciated her and listened to her so whenever difficult negotiations broke off like
00:38:51.120 because everything you just described like i'm sure these negotiations were quite heated but the
00:38:55.620 talks are always resumed with her help she suggested to her husband that her friend androssi
00:39:01.880 be made premier of hungary as part of a compromise at one point she strongly admonished her husband
00:39:07.900 like she was all over this such like doing things this is where it's like people like oh cc she had
00:39:14.860 long hair like and it's like and she like did this she like made austria-hungary happen if this was
00:39:23.980 what she could do all the time she probably would have like her life would have been very very
00:39:28.680 different exactly exactly exactly so that's hungry and then just other examples of her like
00:39:37.680 as she matures and like grows into herself and like gets more confident so her son rudolph was
00:39:45.000 being raised like the father had been raised where it's like military blah blah blah and he was just
00:39:49.220 he was like her like rudolph of all the children was like the most like cc he was very in that
00:39:55.680 ludwig he was just like he had the wittelsbach tendencies towards hyperactivity obsession
00:40:04.520 daydreaming like dreaming yeah inability to focus in a structured environment which probably
00:40:13.040 right so it's just like cc she was in a position like at this point where seeing that this the
00:40:22.100 educational style was not allowing her son to thrive, shall we say, and seemed to be damaging
00:40:28.920 him. She like, and this is a letter. I think I saw like the actual letter written, but she was
00:40:33.840 just like, here's what's happening. I'm taking over full control of his education. Here's what
00:40:38.120 it's going to be like. And you're going to let me, and this is happening. And her husband was like,
00:40:41.940 okay, like go right ahead. So she intervened to let her take over his care, which was again,
00:40:51.360 the thing of just like good and bad yeah yeah but this is just an example of her like i don't know
00:40:59.560 figuring out how she could exercise some control over things that were not her own body she didn't
00:41:04.680 give up she never gave up on anything it's like with her husband i think that's what this comes
00:41:09.860 down to is like she kept trying things and she kept trying things and she kept trying and then
00:41:15.200 she found what worked and she's like oh okay then I'll do this yeah it wasn't oh well Sophie won't
00:41:22.520 let me do anything so I'm just gonna ride horses all my life it was okay so how do I fight Sophie
00:41:29.440 how do I how do I get influence over instead of Sophie it's like okay well I gotta have at least
00:41:34.340 an heir like yeah she kept trying new stuff she never she never just gave up and that's the thing
00:41:40.760 that's part of what you said when I was first asking like what's why do you love her so much
00:41:44.400 I think you said like she had, like, she was living with these mental health things and
00:41:48.700 she also never gave up.
00:41:51.420 Well, and that's what, like with mental, with mental illness, I, I also deal with anxiety.
00:41:57.240 I deal with a lot of different things and you can either give into that being who you
00:42:04.540 are, or you can use them as your superpowers.
00:42:08.420 Like when you have, when you have, when you, when you constantly catastrophize things,
00:42:13.140 you're really, really good at planning for the worst case scenario so that they don't happen.
00:42:17.280 Like it can become your superpower if you let it. And she was one of those people that let it
00:42:22.980 become part of her superpowers. Exactly. Exactly. And that's why it's like when these articles are
00:42:27.860 like the sad story of this depressed empress, where it's like, no, no, no. Or as Netflix is
00:42:38.200 trying to do the romantic story oh my god yeah so listeners as we were planning for this episode i
00:42:45.820 came there's a trailer for this new show i think it's coming up this episode is airing in like
00:42:49.240 september so the show is maybe the show is maybe already on on netflix but it's like a german show
00:42:53.420 and it's about young cc and it's very much which like first of all i'm always in favor of any
00:42:59.680 media representation of women from history the more the better the more that we can get these
00:43:04.760 stories out there and these names known great comma and the presentation of the story is very
00:43:10.780 much like cc and franz a love story and if we've done anything hopefully we're convincing you that
00:43:17.400 this is not a love story that's not what this narrative is it's not the worst marriage in the
00:43:25.380 history of vulgar history but it is not a love story i'm gonna say it's probably one of the
00:43:31.140 it's not victorian albert that's for sure um yeah i don't know a story or is that just a sex
00:43:39.900 theme story it's well and this is the thing like we're going to talk about the like various cc
00:43:46.780 movies and things at the end but like even the biographies of her like she's like we're we're
00:43:52.460 going to be talking about this for i don't even know 12 hours but like she's such a complex person
00:43:57.120 and there's so many things to the story, but it's like, it's tempting for her, like for women in
00:44:01.860 history, for anyone and for any historical narrative, like there's an instinct that I
00:44:05.580 have in myself to just, every time I message you, I'm like, Lana, is it like this? It's like, oh,
00:44:09.240 is it like this? And you're like, no, it's not. It's like, it's, this is Cici, this is her story.
00:44:14.060 But it's like, oh, but I want to make it fit into a predetermined narrative with which I am
00:44:18.440 familiar. And it's like, no, it's not a Cinderella story. It's not a Princess Diana story. It's not,
00:44:23.780 but people are like well what if we make it be a love story what if we make it be a tragedy and
00:44:29.800 it's like or you could just let it be like a twisty turny story of like a cool woman who like
00:44:36.660 did what she could i mean it's kind of a soap opera it's she's she's a she's a tragic she's a
00:44:43.820 tragic figure but she doesn't she would fight you she would fight you if you called her tragic
00:44:49.900 and that's the thing too it's the thing that i come across with my other like otp which is
00:44:54.540 mary queen of scots where so much like people focus on like and her story ended like this
00:45:01.260 and retroactively it's like as though that makes her life tragic like no one like i don't want to
00:45:06.560 call anyone's life tragic just because of how it ends like all of our lives end with us dying
00:45:12.520 and call us mary queen of scots a victim did not actually understand anything about mary queen
00:45:18.640 scots is all i've ever said well here's what i'm gonna say milgar history season six but
00:45:24.860 you don't call it you don't call it a guise of victim like
00:45:29.180 no so that's the thing so i think cece like she like there's sad parts of her story but it's not
00:45:37.580 a sad story there's like victories and she had fun and there was like stuff she did but it's like
00:45:44.100 her life is not sad it's not a sad story and i think the benefit of that is the i think what
00:45:50.980 benefits her most is the modern times is that we have so much about her in so many different ways
00:45:57.320 like there's news articles about her there's yeah there's like there's firsthand accounts of people
00:46:03.040 that were living in the 1900s like it's not it's not quite the same as well we've found two pieces
00:46:11.900 the primary sources we can rub together to make a picture of someone yeah there's a there's a lot
00:46:17.700 about her and that that makes it much harder to like rub her edges off and make her round and
00:46:25.000 turn her into a fairy tale she's not a fairy tale she's a complicated human being the movies that
00:46:30.760 came out so the Romy Schneider is the actress who plays there was like three movies made in Germany
00:46:36.780 about her romey schneider looks a lot like her in the pictures i've seen from those movies and then
00:46:43.580 the movies were combined into one movie that's some some involvement in your book i know because
00:46:49.160 i saw her name no um there's actually i cannot remember off the top of my head who it is but
00:46:53.040 there is a young adult author who for every christmas every christmas watches all three
00:46:58.080 cc movies and that's their thing like cc is is a secret young adult author stan especially in the
00:47:05.620 queer community for some reason so so the thing with cc so there is she is one of the royal diaries 0.51
00:47:10.800 like there is a royal diaries about cc and it ends i think with her marriage because it's her
00:47:14.540 like ages 14 15 and that's a good time to if if she could have ended her story that way without
00:47:20.620 like dying just like yeah that and then forever she's a 15 year old she would have done that so
00:47:25.480 fast i don't know and what you just said about with the queer community it's i don't know i feel
00:47:30.760 like the way that the regular people loved her reminds me of that sort of thing of people who
00:47:35.600 like the queer community rallying behind like Whitney Houston or Britney Spears or somebody
00:47:39.640 just sort of like a woman who faces so much adversity and personal challenge and like
00:47:46.360 mental things but like the queer community is just like we stand like I don't know I think 1.00
00:47:52.200 she has things in common with those sorts of fakers I have to think that through more 1.00
00:47:55.000 thoroughly. Anyway, while this, these victories are happening, she was still having her like 1.00
00:48:02.380 Vienna based constant triggering of mental health issues. So at one point, like her coughing slash 0.99
00:48:10.500 panic attacks got to a point where they're like, does she have tuberculosis? So a lung specialist
00:48:15.540 advised to stay on Madeira, which is in Portugal, question mark, I think.
00:48:21.460 now now you're making a question myself so i'm gonna check i put that in my notes for myself
00:48:27.340 and i trust my past self but anyway it was sort of a thing where it's like she went so they're
00:48:35.040 like i think she just really needs and i appreciate someone just there was like a viral tweet i say
00:48:38.800 yesterday i was just like can we break back like a seaside cure can we just like send people
00:48:42.620 to to the beaches more and i'm i'm like sure i would do that anyway they're like let's just
00:48:48.500 got her out on the fresh air i think that'll be good for her lungs etc and the minute she left
00:48:52.320 vienna she's just like i'm good it's an island known by port owned by portugal north of the
00:48:58.680 canary islands so like yes it's a really good place for fresh air and her to be as far away
00:49:04.340 as humanly possible yeah as many people as she can it was in the biography i think i read it
00:49:09.580 was something about like she like she so and i think some of her siblings got to go there with
00:49:15.020 her like that was another thing like being away from her siblings was really really hard for her
00:49:18.380 because they were all really close and really tight she wasn't allowed to have a confidant
00:49:21.960 because as empress that wasn't seen like appropriate anyway so she went to madera her
00:49:25.800 siblings were there and everyone's like she like got better really suspiciously quickly so they're
00:49:30.860 like was she faking it's like or was she like triggered by living here and then you removed
00:49:37.420 her from that situation and now she can like flourish and thrive she stayed there for two
00:49:42.140 years just like i feel like having a nice time look if you can't do what you want to do as
00:49:49.300 empress when can you do what you want to do um eventually she was just like this is great i'll
00:49:55.640 stay here forever and they're like there's a lot of gossip about her absence and she's like what's
00:50:00.500 that gossip about my absence i'm just gonna go to bavaria for like two more years and just like
00:50:05.340 hang with my family eventually she returned to vienna shortly before her husband's birthday
00:50:10.360 and immediately suffered from a violent migraine
00:50:13.040 and vomited four times en route.
00:50:15.840 So she doesn't like being in Vienna.
00:50:19.300 Her body is rejecting her reentry.
00:50:21.300 Rejects Vienna. 0.99
00:50:22.620 Like her body was just being like,
00:50:24.540 nope, not going to let this happen.
00:50:27.260 So her husband wanted another son
00:50:29.840 to safeguard the succession,
00:50:31.100 but her doctor claimed her health
00:50:32.360 would not permit another pregnancy.
00:50:33.820 And I'm sure it wouldn't.
00:50:35.200 Although-
00:50:35.580 I wonder how much she paid that doctor. 1.00
00:50:37.200 so she spent a lot of time leaving court to go get treatment at various spas 1.00
00:50:44.040 good for you let's see a quote from her so she also was intentionally avoiding pregnancy 1.00
00:50:50.540 she said quote children are the curse of a woman for when they come they drive away beauty which
00:50:55.780 is the best gift of the gods that's body dysmorphia in one quote not that i not that i disagree with
00:51:03.520 childlessness because i am also childless but yeah well i think i i don't know we we had that
00:51:09.880 whole section but like if this is your like what does pregnancy do to a person with body dysmorphia
00:51:15.960 i'm sure nothing good so of course she wants to avoid it but then in 1868 she finally quote
00:51:24.180 finally agreed to have a fourth child for political reasons so back to hungary so her decision was at
00:51:32.120 wants a deliberate personal choice and a political negotiation she figured by returning to her
00:51:38.460 marriage like her marital bed she could like hold this over franz joseph to like finally get the like 0.98
00:51:45.620 austria-hungary thing to happen she wanted to have a her fourth child to be born in hungary
00:51:50.460 like sort of symbolically to be like this is yeah so arguably he did know how to get what he wanted
00:51:58.680 out of her by giving her what she wanted, which again is not a thing that normally would have
00:52:03.880 happened in most royal marriages. They came to this compromise where she agreed to give him a
00:52:10.720 child and he agreed to form the kingdom of Austria-Hungary. He agreed to recognize Hungary
00:52:16.840 as an equal partner. Yeah. So in 1867 and largely due to Sisi's diplomatic work, Hungary became an
00:52:23.260 equal partner in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Franz Josef was crowned king of Hungary and
00:52:28.580 Sisi became queen with Andrasi as prime minister. For her part in the Austro-Hungarian compromise
00:52:35.540 of 1867, Sisi was beloved by the Hungarian people who were also given new freedoms as
00:52:40.460 equals to the Austrians. And I think there was a big coronation situation, very exciting for
00:52:45.320 everybody. Hungary presented the royal couple with a country residence in Godolo.
00:52:52.320 I just don't know how to help with that one. There's a lot of umlauts in that word, just know.
00:52:57.020 A lot of umlauts. Umlauta. Godolo. Anyway, Hungary presented them with a country residence
00:53:03.580 32 kilometers, 20 miles east of Budapest. And Cece was like, great, I'm just going to live here
00:53:10.220 basically permanently and do horseback riding for the rest of my life. So the next year,
00:53:15.040 she lived primarily basically a hunting lodge yeah like it was very much balmoral for the
00:53:21.340 austral-hungarians well and this is where i think she really um starts getting into horseback riding
00:53:27.900 fox hunting so she lived primarily there and this is where she became like she's pregnant living 0.83
00:53:35.400 there the people of austria were just like why why doesn't she want to live here in vienna where 1.00
00:53:40.220 we were cruel to her the entire time like why would she ever leave us and they're like oh she
00:53:44.760 must be you know androssi must be the father of this baby they made like a mean joke saying that
00:53:51.500 she would if it was a son she would call him stephen after the patron saint and first king
00:53:55.040 of hungary it would be so terrible if she names him after a hungarian people in vienna just
00:54:01.220 anyway a lot and i love them and they're terrible and i love them i do i do it was a city 100% 1.00
00:54:08.940 population messy bitches living for drama so anyway she's like super chill and then Vienna's 1.00
00:54:16.820 like no we're going hard so anyway it was not a daughter it was sorry it was not a son it was a 0.99
00:54:24.260 daughter who she called Marie Valerie who is known as the Hungarian child so she was born in Budapest
00:54:31.020 because it really isn't is it really a Habsburg baby if it's not named Marie
00:54:35.780 i will say valerie is the first time i've had someone called valerie on this podcast ever
00:54:41.040 there's also someone called stephanie anyway marie valerie known as valerie is the hungarian
00:54:48.420 child who's born in budapest um baptized there and then she was plagued her whole life by rumors
00:54:54.280 that her father was secretly andrasi but like she looked like her father who was franz joseph
00:55:00.280 And Cece and Andrasi were not lovers because if nothing else, they were both extremely closely monitored at all times by people who would have noticed something like that happening.
00:55:10.400 Cece was never alone, ever, ever alone as much as she wanted to be.
00:55:17.340 Yeah, there's one of the sections this I almost want to call like Cece wants to be alone.
00:55:22.140 Trademark Greta Garbo.
00:55:23.860 Anyway, so Valerie, Cece was just like, here's what's happening.
00:55:27.500 I'm going to raise this child and Noah's going to take her away.
00:55:29.780 I think Sophie was dead by now but anyway this was the one child way before like Sophie was dead
00:55:35.840 I think before um Rudolph was even or he was still really really young I forget yeah anyway
00:55:42.800 but she was just like this is it would have been a while since Rudolph was born so she's just like
00:55:46.580 I'm going to raise this child myself and she did and she was very close to Valerie in a way she was
00:55:51.380 not with any further children but partially because she was able to be a lot of what was
00:55:56.940 written about Cece like, or like the reference in a lot of the biographies are Valerie's notes
00:56:02.520 because she was so close to her mother. She knew her mother very, very well. Yeah. So, but here's
00:56:07.400 the thing. And I love this for her. So after having achieved the victory of the Austria-Hungary
00:56:11.880 matter, Cece was like, here's what's happening. I'm just going to travel the world for the rest
00:56:16.380 of my life. Goodbye, Vienna. She just embarked on a life of travel and saw a little of her 0.94
00:56:22.380 children, except for Valerie, I think traveled with her sometimes. Here's a quote from her.
00:56:25.700 if i arrived at a place and knew that i could never leave it again the whole stay would become
00:56:30.460 hell despite being paradise she hated feeling trapped which is what vienna vienna was a trap
00:56:36.640 yeah it's the very it's like the the bird in a gilded cage situation where it's like some people
00:56:43.940 like well why isn't she happy that she's like the empress and she gets like pretty dresses and it's
00:56:48.280 like she's not happy because she doesn't want that because that doesn't make her happy because 0.54
00:56:53.440 it was literally prison like she didn't like suddenly she was like if she were in fact ADHD
00:57:00.860 and she were untreated which there was no treatment at the time that would like it was that
00:57:09.660 I have to be moving I have to follow you have to follow the muse like that if that was the thing
00:57:15.120 it makes perfect sense it makes perfect sense that she never wanted to be like Vienna was a
00:57:20.000 was, was rules and structure and everything she couldn't be. So even if they want, no matter how
00:57:26.720 much they wanted her and no matter how hard they tried, she could never be Vienna. But if they let
00:57:31.800 her float around, she'd do whatever they needed her to do. Exactly. So I think at this point in
00:57:37.360 her life, she is just like, she's just traveling. That's, that is what is happening. And she's just
00:57:44.120 like, I am going to be in Vienna almost never. And I'm just going to exactly like you just said,
00:57:48.840 just like follow the muse place to place. So newspapers, because this is like the late
00:57:54.800 19th century, um, newspapers covered her travels as a public figure, um, because, you know, she is
00:58:02.500 the Empress. Um, she is a public figure, but she's also famously beautiful, et cetera. So,
00:58:08.920 um, and all the articles were like, here's her exercise regime. Here's her diet plan, but also 0.58
00:58:13.420 like she's doing a lot of horseback riding. So people are like, she used to go to horseback
00:58:17.260 writing like here's what her outfits were like she often shopped at the budapest fashion house
00:58:22.960 until alter now alter is kiss which had become very popular with the fashion craze crowd newspapers
00:58:30.200 reported on a series of reputed lovers because like that's going to sell you newspapers because
00:58:35.960 they wanted that just is a thing people wanted to read about even though this is this is yellow
00:58:40.760 journalism yeah this is make up anything you want we got to publish it we got to sell papers we're
00:58:46.220 making money this is like yeah newsies era almost for the american public speaking of newsies we're
00:58:55.800 going to do that in vulgar peace theater at some point and i'm excited about it spoilers well we
00:59:01.220 don't know when but yeah i think also it's like the same as the movies are like well let's make
00:59:07.240 this a love story it's like people can't like a story that sells is like a beautiful woman and
00:59:12.020 her lover a beautiful woman and her love triangle if it's just like a beautiful woman who's just
00:59:17.520 like having a fun trip with her ladies and waiting it's just like well that's not there's not a sexy 1.00
00:59:22.400 angle to that like they needed to make something be scandalous about it if she had a lover it was 1.00
00:59:27.560 probably her horse she was a horse girl oh my god if you want to if you want to pair her in a 0.98
00:59:35.760 romantic story you you do a horse girl story that's beginning and end okay so we're gonna
00:59:41.380 to leave it there for cc part two next week we're going to do part three which will well truly the
00:59:48.140 third act of her life and what what she was up to so stay tuned for that next week until then all
00:59:54.580 the regular reminders oh also next week there's going to be the scoring so like we'll see how
00:59:59.100 this goes because cc not a typical vulgar history type person in terms of the four categories we're
01:00:04.280 scoring, but we'll see how that turns out. So if you have feedback, comments, questions,
01:00:12.140 you just want to like say, hey, you can reach out if you go to vulgarhistory.com. There's a button
01:00:16.960 there where you can contact me to send messages. You can also send me a DM on Instagram where we
01:00:22.600 are at vulgarhistorypod where I've been posting lots and lots and lots of images of Cece herself
01:00:28.320 because she was a woman who had a lot of portraits painted of her a lot of portraits have been done 0.52
01:00:34.640 afterwards following her life of people inspired by her um the cc stars her hairstyle pretty iconic
01:00:43.000 anyway instagram we're at vulgar history pod on twitter i'm at vulgar history and if you want to
01:00:48.980 follow on patreon that is if you go to patreon.com slash ann foster writer that's where so if you
01:00:55.680 pledge a dollar, at least a dollar per month, you get early access to episodes. If you pledge at
01:01:01.140 least $2 a month, you get early access to episodes. And you can vote on polls like all the people who
01:01:06.020 voted. The Patreon people voted for Cece to do an episode about her. So that's how you can help me
01:01:11.800 decide because sometimes I can't make up my mind. And then if you pledge at least $5 a month, then
01:01:16.020 you get access to all the bonus episodes. That's the So This Asshole episodes about men from
01:01:21.740 history most recently i've done one about louis the 14th we'll see oh and then next one i'm going
01:01:26.680 to be doing is christopher columbus also a vote from the pp on patreon so just reading up on him
01:01:31.760 as well anyway and then also the vulgar piece theater episodes with lana johnson who you're
01:01:38.140 now very familiar with um from these episodes and allison epstein where we talk about costume
01:01:43.180 dramas the most recent one we discuss is les miserables the hugh jackman movie anyway patreon.com
01:01:50.140 and yeah if you want to support the show via merch um that's all for sale at vulgarhistory.store
01:02:00.420 i'm thinking about something for cc something horse girl related long hair don't care i'm not
01:02:06.380 sure this is where like send me a message what do you think anyway if you're shopping on vulgar
01:02:11.020 history.store you can use code tits out for free u.s shipping or tits out 10 for 10 off if you're 0.99
01:02:16.360 not in the U.S. And yeah, so next week, we're going to wrap things up with Cece. So until then,
01:02:24.500 keep your hair down, pants on, and your tits out. 0.99
01:02:28.940 Volker History is hosted, written, and researched by Anne Foster and edited by Christina Lumagi. 0.98
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