Vulgar History - International, part 32： Manuela Sáenz： Revolutionary (pt 1⧸2)

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00:00:44.980 hello and welcome to vulgar history of feminist women's history comedy podcast 0.95

00:01:02.020 i'm your host anne foster and i want to give a special greeting to there's there's some new

00:01:07.880 listeners out there so i want to greet you after the weird coincidence of i did the empress cc

00:01:14.840 episodes with Lana Wood Johnson, which she and I have been meaning to do for like ever and ever,

00:01:20.100 and it just kind of finally worked out. Coincidentally, The Empress, the German TV

00:01:24.840 show came on Netflix and became really popular. And now there's this new movie about CeCe called

00:01:29.100 Corsage coming out. So we're in the midst of a bit of a CeCe-sense, I guess, and that's brought

00:01:35.020 some people to this podcast. So welcome. This is our international season, which has been going on

00:01:42.300 since March 2022. Considerably longer than I had thought it would go, but we've got into these

00:01:48.560 multi-part episodes and I'm having a good time. And here we go. So although I will say things are

00:01:54.440 starting to wrap up, an end is in sight for this season. I have plans for next season.

00:02:00.260 There's going to be a petite hiatus after we finish Internationale, but I don't want you to

00:02:05.020 worry. Like we're doing this episode, part two of this episode is going to be next week,

00:02:09.320 potentially a part three. I don't know how long it's going to be. Then there's going to be two,

00:02:12.900 no, three more people to talk about some interviews coming up. Anyway, that's behind

00:02:18.520 the scenes, but I'm up to. So the international season, the whole purpose of it was that the show

00:02:25.600 has got a following in all kinds of countries, all over the place. And I really wanted to learn

00:02:31.760 more about the places where listeners are from and share those stories with other listeners.

00:02:38.240 and help people who are listening from all different countries, you know, to have

00:02:43.440 them get their stories shared. So for that reason, I have been accepting suggestions from people and

00:02:49.420 I will continue to, I'm not stopping, like, please send me suggestions of people. I was looking at

00:02:53.160 the, I have this really long Google sheet of all the potential people for future episodes and it's

00:03:00.180 lengthy. And because I am a librarian, I have sorted it by continent and country and year. And

00:03:06.960 And there's a lot of exciting stuff that I have to investigate during the hiatus.

00:03:11.960 Anyway, please send me ideas for episodes you'd like to hear for sure.

00:03:17.360 And today's episode is one that was suggested by a listener.

00:03:23.160 So Andrea, who is in Ecuador, suggested there a woman who I think she has described to me,

00:03:29.860 and Andrea has been really, really, really helpful contextualizing all this stuff for me,

00:03:35.000 because I didn't know anything about the history of Ecuador before I started learning about this,

00:03:39.240 let alone the history of South America, as it turns out. A lot of this has been very humbling

00:03:43.140 for me to learn how much I don't know when I start learning about things. But yeah, so Andrea

00:03:48.740 describes our heroine this week and next, Manuela Sons, as an icon of the South American Revolution.

00:03:57.520 She says, Manuela is one of the most iconic female characters of our country.

00:04:02.440 she was so fearless and even though most of the things shown today is her love story

00:04:06.740 there's so much more in how she helped through the revolution so yeah there is a love story

00:04:12.760 in this and it's the sort of thing i've had this i can't think of an example right now but other

00:04:17.620 people this season were like i had never heard of them before and then when i go to kind of the

00:04:22.380 most recent book about them it's very it's almost like defensive they're like she's more than just

00:04:27.200 the love story and i'm like okay i didn't know i didn't know she was the love story so she's more

00:04:31.960 than just the love story. So we all know that. But kind of the reason why we know about her is

00:04:35.860 because of the love story, because she was the longtime mistress of Simone Bolivar, the liberator

00:04:42.080 of South America. So I'm going to be getting into the history of it. I really shouldn't say this

00:04:48.780 off the top of my head. So I won't contextualize that at all, because I'll probably get it

00:04:52.800 incorrect. Oh, but I also wanted to mention just while we're here in this little introduction

00:04:57.400 era. So if any of you are listening on Apple podcasts, I always say at the end, like, you

00:05:04.040 know, please write and review and whatever, but I have a specific call to action for people who

00:05:09.120 are listening on Apple podcasts or who have the ability to put reviews on Apple podcasts,

00:05:13.360 because I recently got a review from someone who said that they think I say the word like

00:05:18.560 too often. So if you're listening and you like this podcast, presumably you think I say the

00:05:26.160 word like an appropriate amount of times. So just to counterbalance that, you know, if that's how

00:05:30.220 you feel, feel free to leave a little review on Apple podcast saying that Anna says the word like

00:05:35.200 an appropriate amount of times. And I guess that's another thing for anyone who's just

00:05:38.980 new to this podcast, as I was about to say, who's like new to the podcast. I'm not going to be

00:05:44.000 self-conscious. Fuck that. Whatever. Anyway, the whole point of this podcast is I just talk like I 1.00

00:05:48.980 talk in normal life. That's what we're about here. That's why it's a feminist women's history,

00:05:55.680 comedy podcast. It's not just like a history podcast where I just like say facts and stuff.

00:06:01.040 My personality is like 50% of this podcast. So if you don't vibe with that, that's fine.

00:06:06.260 But if you do, you should leave a thing on Apple podcast saying that I say the word like

00:06:10.580 a normal amount of times. So Manuela Sons is who we're talking about today.

00:06:17.200 The main sources I had for her and I, it's interesting. Okay. So the main source is this

00:06:23.740 book called For Glory and Bolivar, The Remarkable Life of Manuela Sanz by Pamela S. Murray. And

00:06:30.480 Pamela S. Murray, thank God for this book. She went to all kinds of archives. There's lots of

00:06:36.540 letters. Like she really painstakingly went through to figure out like, what are the facts?

00:06:42.840 What do we know Manuela actually did or thought or wrote? There's a lot of legends and rumors

00:06:49.100 about her. So I did also look at Wikipedia. I looked at some other websites, but as I was

00:06:55.200 going through, I looked at the websites first to like orient myself, but ultimately a lot of what

00:07:00.580 I read there, like Pamela S. Murray found was like probably not true and like maybe a legend.

00:07:05.420 So I'm going to just shout out those as the main sources as well as the Oxford Encyclopedia of

00:07:10.880 Women's History, which also, anyway, Pamela S. Murray, thank God for this book. So again,

00:07:18.220 it's a funny thing of like, I'm going to have to like tell you like people say this, but actually

00:07:22.420 it was this. And many of you might be like, I didn't know people said that. So we're looking

00:07:27.220 at South America. Um, the last time that this podcast visited South America was when I believe

00:07:34.920 Catalina de Arraso was stabbing her way around there and a fairly chaotic way. Llamas were 1.00

00:07:41.340 involved. We are going to intersect some of the cities I mentioned here. I was like, I know that

00:07:44.960 city name and it's because it was a place that Catalina de Arraso went back in the day. So yeah,

00:07:51.600 it's been a minute since I compared years of like, when does a story take place? When does other

00:07:56.260 stories take place? In general, this podcast, I go in chronological order because that is just

00:08:03.100 what I decided to do. These last several episodes, we're just kind of bouncing around the 19th

00:08:09.780 century back and forth based on when I have time to research who. So let's just like ground this

00:08:15.320 in where and when we are, because the time period, I guess the time period is important to anyone's

00:08:20.460 life, but this is like a really chaotic moment that this story kicks off with. So Manuela Sanz

00:08:27.440 was born in 1797. That is the same year Mary Shelley was born, 30 years after Carolina

00:08:34.440 Brunswick was born 20 years before Lola Montes. And so it's kind of like, so about 200 years

00:08:42.560 after Catalina de Arauzo was stabbing her way around some of these cities. Why do I keep bringing

00:08:48.760 up Catalina de Arauzo? Because she was in South America during the time that Spain was conquesting

00:08:56.300 that entire continent Portugal was also. So 200 years. So Spain has been in South America for

00:09:05.760 about 200 years by the time Manuela Sanz is around. So it's an equivalent-ish period of time

00:09:11.420 to like Britain was in the United States for whatever amount of time before like the American

00:09:17.240 Revolution happened. So it's like, it's been long enough that the colonies of Spain have been kind

00:09:23.820 of like, you know, there's been a couple of generations of people have been born there.

00:09:27.080 Like people have been born in South America to Spanish parents. Like, so they're just that kind

00:09:31.840 of separate from Spain itself in the same way that the United States was separate from Britain

00:09:38.540 or England itself when they did the American revolution. Yeah. So I just also think it's

00:09:44.300 interesting, like she's born 1797. So this all happens. This story is like this episode, which

00:09:52.360 is the first part of her story um it's like the 1820s which is what i often think of as like the

00:10:00.760 regency era you know so like mary shelley jane austen bridgerton empire waist gowns like that's

00:10:07.380 what's happening in england and but this is what's happening in south america so manuela was born in

00:10:16.000 as I said, 1797. So she was born in Quito, which is, hang on. So there is a whole lot of

00:10:24.900 information I'm not going to get into because I do not fully, I have not, I've done the deep dive

00:10:30.760 on Manuela herself, not about like the political situation. I just tried to learn about as much as

00:10:35.580 I needed to, to understand what she was up to, but effectively. So we're looking at kind of

00:10:40.840 the top west part of South America, which when she was born was mainly known as the Vice Royalty

00:10:50.100 of New Granada. So also called the Vice Royalty of the New Kingdom of Granada or the Vice Royalty

00:10:56.440 of Santa Fe. This was, this is an area that corresponds to modern Colombia, Ecuador, Panama,

00:11:02.560 and Venezuela. And it was under the jurisdiction of the Spanish Empire. And by the time Manuela

00:11:10.260 was born there's already been some movements from both where she is from so quito itself which is

00:11:16.880 now the capital and most populous city of ecuador at that time it was part of what was it called

00:11:24.220 it's like the audiencia of quito so it was like part of the voice reality but not really and this

00:11:30.300 is where i'm just like it's like the amount of change that is happening and gonna happen

00:11:36.740 in a story. I was trying to think like what I could compare it to just so you could understand

00:11:41.460 the like slippery nature of like land borders and like what are the countries called and are

00:11:47.080 they countries or are they voice royalties? It's kind of, honestly, I don't know. I'm going to say

00:11:53.360 just in terms of like level of chaos and uncertainty. It's like if I was telling a story

00:11:57.260 where somebody was born right in the middle of like England's war of the roses, where it's like

00:12:02.160 Plantagenets and Yorks and like Tudors and just like, you know, it's going to settle

00:12:07.100 down eventually, like just settle, but it's just chaos at the moment.

00:12:11.920 So there's like a whole bunch of places in this part of South America, all under the

00:12:18.080 jurisdiction of the Spanish empire, but basically all of which have some, um, have been working

00:12:24.680 towards sometimes successfully, sometimes unsuccessfully like getting independence from

00:12:28.380 Spain and being their own thing.

00:12:32.160 So her full name, and she gets the title Doña, because her father is noble.

00:12:36.700 So Doña Manuela Sanz de Vergara y Aispuru was the illegitimate child of Simon Sanz de Vergara,

00:12:45.020 who was a well-born Spanish adventurer, so from Spain.

00:12:49.340 He was a married man with four children.

00:12:51.780 His wife was not her mother.

00:12:53.640 Her mother was a 30-year-old or in her 30s-year-old neighbor, unmarried woman, 0.96

00:12:59.920 family friend named Maria Joaquina Aizpuru. So Maria Joaquina was from a wealthy and aristocratic 0.99

00:13:06.460 family as well. But it's a whole situation of like, well, he's married. So like these two,

00:13:13.240 you know, it's a, they could never get married. So she was illegitimate. And so when Manuela was 0.97

00:13:19.840 born, I think it was this sort of thing where like Maria Joaquina was sort of like hidden away.

00:13:24.640 The baby was born, but just kind of no one really admitted like she was the mother of the baby.

00:13:29.920 which becomes important to Manuela later for like inheritance reasons.

00:13:34.720 Maria Joaquina died shortly after she was born, seemingly. So potentially complications of

00:13:40.700 childbirth. I'm going to propose that whole thing that we've talked about before in this podcast,

00:13:45.000 where doctors didn't know about washing their hands when they delivered babies. They would like

00:13:49.800 touch, you know, a dead body or a sick person. And then they would like go directly into like

00:13:55.080 pull a baby out of a woman's vagina. And then that woman would get some sort of blood infection and 1.00

00:13:59.640 then die, like happened to Henry VIII's wife, Jane Seymour. Anyway, so Maria Joaquina died shortly

00:14:05.040 after Manuela was born. Her father admitted that he was the father right away. He never pretended

00:14:11.800 like, oh, whose baby is that? And so in fact, he paid the 1,000 peso dowry required to get her

00:14:18.080 accepted into La Concepcion Convent, which I did not know that you had to pay a dowry.

00:14:26.300 Like, usually I've only heard about dowries in terms of getting people to marry daughters.

00:14:31.420 Anyway, so he paid the dowry so that she could go to this convent, and where she was raised

00:14:36.680 by nuns.

00:14:37.620 So this particular convent, La Concepción, was the oldest, largest, and richest of six

00:14:43.720 female monasteries in Quito.

00:14:46.220 This convent only admitted the daughters of the most noble families, and so the facility

00:14:50.460 was very affluent.

00:14:52.140 you know like I presume that means like good meals nice beds like everything was nice and

00:14:57.780 they were not a super strict convent in like a scale of like really strict convent to like party

00:15:04.880 convent one thing I read described it as a party convent but I think it's more just like their

00:15:10.720 thing was not like this particular order of nuns their thing was not like being strict and mean

00:15:15.640 all the time it was kind of like good works and stuff like that so like it was in terms of convents

00:15:20.400 like seemingly the best one for her to grow up in. So she grew up here. She learned,

00:15:28.220 she's very well educated. So she learned literacy as well as domestic arts, which included

00:15:32.140 interestingly, candy making. As an adult, she kept in touch with these nuns and went to them

00:15:37.840 for advice. So clearly she had a strong connection to them, but which makes sense because like they

00:15:43.320 raised her from infancy. Although she did also, like she knew who her father was and he sort of

00:15:48.840 integrated her into his household a bit. Like he knew her half siblings. And so what was it like

00:15:55.860 growing up in colonial frontier South America in the early 1800s? So, uh, women were actually 1.00

00:16:06.120 allowed considerable freedom relative to the times. And I guess to what freedom women would 0.64

00:16:12.300 be allowed in like Spain, for instance. So Manuela grew up knowing how to smoke, drink, and swear. 1.00

00:16:19.380 There is a rumor slash legend that when she was around 17, she may have run away or tried to run

00:16:26.060 away with a military guy who was her lover. We don't know if she actually did that, but the

00:16:31.700 rumored lover is Fausto de Elhuyar, the son of Fausto Elhuyar and the nephew of Juan José Elhuyar,

00:16:41.180 who were, fun fact, the co-discoverers of Hungston. Anyway, so we don't know if she tried to run

00:16:47.980 away. Although like, can I just say, like, I forget when I have the part in my notes about

00:16:52.700 like, what was her personality like, but she was like, she had some real chaotic energy,

00:16:59.300 which she found ways to funnel in helpful directions, but she was a prankster. She

00:17:04.940 loved nothing more than a good joke. She loved scandalizing people. So like growing up in like 0.74

00:17:10.240 a borderline party convent. Like maybe she did try to run away. But we do know that at around 0.99

00:17:15.720 the same time, her father decided to marry her off. So that could have been a way to be like,

00:17:19.880 she's a little out of control. Let's try to like make her a wife and that'll make her be more quiet. 1.00

00:17:26.020 And so he chose as her husband, a man who, so his dad was this like businessman, 1.00

00:17:30.600 this like very rich businessman. Oh, I want to say also, so the culture of like

00:17:37.320 New Granada was, again, I'm going to compare it to like the United States. So it's like people,

00:17:43.900 like the colonists came over from Spain. These were like white people, like in the sense of like 0.60

00:17:49.640 skin color was very important. So they were like pale skinned white people that came over from

00:17:55.860 Spain. And that became like the aristocracy of Quito and of New Granada. And, um, there was also 0.86

00:18:03.660 like there's obviously the indigenous people there i believe it was the incas or in this region

00:18:08.360 and then also the spanish came over they brought um enslaved black people with them so there's like

00:18:15.460 people here of various complexions but um the the most important people had pale skin and prided

00:18:25.120 themselves on their pale skin and so yeah so it's very much just like you wanted to be kind of as

00:18:32.480 white as possible as so even though i don't know i guess it's complicated because the whole like

00:18:37.920 wanting to separate from spain of it all but like you want it to be like as most like your lineage

00:18:44.440 was european the way the people in the us would be like oh my ancestors can date all the way back

00:18:48.200 to the mayflower like that's how white i am so um manuela was light-skinned um with dark hair

00:18:56.660 i guess she was described as having a roses and cream complexion she's very beautiful pale skin 1.00

00:19:02.140 dark hair, kind of a Lola Montez-esque appearance. But in her case, it's because she's actually 1.00

00:19:08.120 of Spanish descent. I picture her kind of like an Ana de Armas looking person. But yeah, so she was

00:19:15.920 beautiful, which is important because it affected how people reacted to her and also what she was 0.99

00:19:21.080 able to get away with because also she was very wealthy and she had the privilege of being, 0.70

00:19:26.120 having this roses and cream, light skin complexion. And the fiance that her father

00:19:32.300 chose for her was English, like from England, which was seen as a prestigious match because he

00:19:38.120 was a white person. His name was James Thorne. And there were like some wealthy English people

00:19:45.840 were there like running plantations, like sugar plantations, I think is what he was doing.

00:19:49.880 James Thorne was about twice her age like she's about 20 and he's about 40 but also because he

00:19:58.020 was from England I think it was probably a good match for her because maybe he wouldn't like some

00:20:04.940 of the wealthy white Spanish people or like people of Spanish descent who were there confusingly to

00:20:11.760 me the word that's used for the like really aristocratic white people whose ancestors came

00:20:17.500 over from Spain, but who themselves were born in South America is Creole, which is a word that

00:20:24.420 until now I have thought only meant like mixed race, like black people from like Louisiana.

00:20:31.760 But the Creoles in this context were like people whose ancestors had come over from Spain.

00:20:37.200 And then they only ever had children with people who are also descended from Spain. 0.92

00:20:41.640 Anyway, so the Creole culture, maybe it would have been harder to find like a good husband 0.99

00:20:47.220 for Manuela because she was illegitimate. But James Thorne, who is from England, was rich and

00:20:52.440 maybe didn't have some of those same hangups. And so he married her. And so she left Quito

00:20:57.520 to go to Lima to marry him. And so Peru, Tito Brigade Peru can let me know because this

00:21:06.360 Peru was at times in this story, an independent, I think, republic, but then at times is part of

00:21:14.900 new Granada. So I'm not sure. But anyway, Lima, Peru, a place where perhaps the ghost of Catalina

00:21:21.560 de Arraso and her 500 llamas were still there in some way. That is where Manuela went to marry

00:21:28.740 James Thorne. They had a lavish wedding celebration that lasted for three days.

00:21:34.620 And here's the thing. So yes, like she's 20. She just married a 40 year old man.

00:21:39.920 She is like, we're going to get into it, but just like a prankster, a goofball, real weirdo. 1.00

00:21:45.860 So her options for what she was going to do was either like she'd be married off or she would 1.00

00:21:50.920 become a nun. And I think for the two options, this suits her personality better because being

00:21:56.600 married opened up her world in the sense of she now had more independence as a married woman.

00:22:02.320 So not unlike what we talked about a few weeks ago with the Joseon kingdom of like old times Korea,

00:22:08.460 um, Spanish society and the society of this new Granada was very much modeled after Spain,

00:22:18.600 society in Spain. So it didn't, there wasn't many rights for women. For instance, women were

00:22:23.780 treated as legally minors and thus like children ineligible for full participation in civil society

00:22:29.680 or for inclusion in civic or public life. Uh, women were barred from all positions of leadership

00:22:35.440 and governance, including, with the exception of widows, from being head of households. 0.99

00:22:40.300 Marriage placed wives under their husband's authority and required them to seek consent 0.99

00:22:43.820 before doing a lot of stuff. But unlike women in this exact era in France, Britain, or the US, 0.94

00:22:53.060 women in South America, and I guess in Spain, maintain their own judicial identity. So as soon

00:22:57.980 as she was married, she was recognized under the law as a separate and distinct person rather than

00:23:03.260 just as someone subsumed into the being of her husband. She also would retain a certain

00:23:09.200 independence and freedom of action. She could draft her own will, testify in court, and accept

00:23:14.600 inheritance without her husband's consent, which becomes important later. There's like a whole

00:23:18.320 inheritance saga. So basically to an upper-class woman like Manuela, this was like a relatively 1.00

00:23:25.660 decent bargain. Like marry some boring guy and you get kind of more independence and more rights. 0.98

00:23:30.920 she also became the mistress of a wealthy household and then she also like he trusted her

00:23:37.260 like he was not James Thorne is not going to win the like award for being an okay husband but

00:23:43.180 he he could have been much worse you know what he could have been so much worse I'm going to say

00:23:48.740 he's not going to win the like supporting award because he did not support a lot of what she did

00:23:53.600 but he was not awful he was he was an okay husband and he saw that she was smart and capable and so

00:23:59.780 she became his confidant and business collaborator. And like when he went out of town,

00:24:04.860 she would like run the business or like run the household. Like she, she knew as well. She like

00:24:08.660 could do stuff, but she knew that like financially she was entirely dependent on him and she saw

00:24:17.140 another option. So she sought to claim inheritance from her mother's family. So like everyone always 0.96

00:24:24.440 knew who her father was. Like she had his last name, like she visited his house, like he arranged

00:24:28.920 her marriage. But the identity of her mother had been kept secret for, I guess, scandal reasons.

00:24:34.720 But it's like, how secret was it? Like maybe an open secret? So she hired a lawyer to officially

00:24:39.620 petition for her to get some inheritance from the Aizpuru family. And so because of the way

00:24:46.100 that laws work, if she got this inheritance, this would be her money and James Thorne couldn't

00:24:52.220 control it. So it'd bring her a measure of independence. So even though she hasn't like

00:24:56.720 found her calling in life. Like she's trying to find ways to like have a bit more independence

00:25:03.460 for herself. But meanwhile, Manuela was in Lima, which was a much bigger city than Quito.

00:25:12.400 So at this time, there's something like 65,000 people living there, which was more than three

00:25:17.000 times the number in Quito where she was from. So it was just like, you know, moving from the small

00:25:22.400 town to the big city. Plus in Lima, women had like, on top of what I just talked about being 1.00

00:25:28.480 like, here's how Spanish law worked. Women in Lima were known for having an unusual degree of freedom 1.00

00:25:33.620 and mobility, like specifically women in Lima. So unlike women in Spain and even elsewhere in 0.96

00:25:42.120 Spanish America, women in Lima were allowed to walk around unchaperoned, which led to

00:25:50.460 the women mingling with people of all classes. So like upper class, lower class, people of all 0.96

00:25:56.220 different skin complexions. And this was like, just not what was done. I feel like this was not

00:26:01.720 done in what my notes here just say, like, not like Spain, not like Spanish America. I feel like

00:26:06.440 not like England, not like France, not Italy, like not Sweden. So when European men came to Lima to

00:26:13.280 visit, they were shocked. I just need to give a shout out to one of my favorite podcasts, which

00:26:18.860 is the svh podcast the sweet valley high podcast it's hosted by two hilarious women from ireland

00:26:25.480 and it's truly the way that i think vulgar history may have been for some of you like it's a show

00:26:31.980 that i just like binge the entire backup back catalog during uh quarantine and they're fabulous

00:26:38.000 and so there's uh basically their podcast is they just go every episode of their podcast is a

00:26:43.340 different book in the sweet valley high book series they're up to book like 95 or something

00:26:47.580 By now, they have a massive back catalog. Anyway, there's one episode. It's a super special

00:26:51.700 where the Sweet Valley High twins, Elizabeth and Jessica Wakefield, go to this small town,

00:26:56.400 I forget, in like Iowa to visit their elderly aunt and uncle. And when one of them, probably

00:27:02.940 Jessica, does something that the aunt finds shocking, the aunt is like, Herman, my pills.

00:27:11.260 And then it's become sort of a longstanding joke on this podcast. Whenever something happens,

00:27:16.040 is just like, Herman, my pills, just sort of this pearl clutching feeling. So I feel like these

00:27:20.980 European men went to Lima, saw women like Manuel, just like chilling out, talking, probably smoking

00:27:26.300 with people of different classes and different races. And the European men are just like,

00:27:30.860 Herman, my pills. Just so you know, that's how they were. Anyway, so why were things different 1.00

00:27:39.200 there? And I'm not sure why things are different there, but part of what helped things be different,

00:27:42.960 why women were able to do this is because of the city's traditional female costume,

00:27:47.560 the saya e manto. And I'm going to put pictures of this on the Instagram page just so you can

00:27:53.480 see what it looks like. It's quite a look. So this ensemble was a long pleated skirt with

00:28:01.360 decorative fringe and a manto. I guess that's the saya. The manto is a black shawl that's sort of

00:28:07.420 wrapped around your shoulders and then wrapped around your head and then kind of half wrapped

00:28:10.920 across your face. So it's very, um, oldie time lady superhero mixed with like a hijab sort of 0.90

00:28:21.060 vibes where like all that you see is just like a woman dressed in this outfit and all you see is 0.90

00:28:26.800 the eyes. So you're sort of disguised. So like no one knew who is who because all the women were 0.60

00:28:31.120 all dressed like this, I guess. And that allowed them more freedom, I guess. Where did this outfit

00:28:38.320 it come from you tell me I don't know but I think it's fabulous so yeah so Manuela went from like

00:28:46.260 it's such a if you picture her being like whatever she is like 19 20 years old and she goes from the

00:28:50.800 small town like being in this like nunnery but also being sort of literally like protected

00:28:58.940 to being suddenly having independence available to her and then being in the big city and so it's

00:29:04.800 Just like, you know, someone goes to a university or someone like moves to New York City or

00:29:08.420 something.

00:29:09.320 And she had like so many young people this age, a political awakening.

00:29:15.040 And so again, like this is not the podcast to like learn the specifics of the political

00:29:22.460 situation of 1820s South America.

00:29:28.700 But just please know there was chaos happening all over the place.

00:29:31.880 part of the reason why was there had been the American Revolution recently-ish. The French

00:29:38.020 Revolution, like people were just kind of like, wait, revolutions can work. That's great. Also

00:29:44.660 recently-ish, Napoleon had invaded Spain and booted out the monarchy, which kind of like put

00:29:49.680 the Spanish colonies into like, wait, who's in charge of this? Even though the king came back

00:29:53.720 later. Just war battles all over the place. And women in Lima and throughout South America were

00:30:02.620 participating in this political conflict. So in Lima specifically, the political conflict was 1.00

00:30:10.060 centered on, well, I guess we break down to its most basic level. There's people who are still

00:30:15.740 loyal to Spain versus people who wanted autonomy from Spain. So it's the loyalists versus the

00:30:22.300 patriots manuela was on the side of the patriots so upper class women like manuela um and literally 1.00

00:30:31.080 like literally like her like she's one of the people who did this um used her big house to host 1.00

00:30:36.120 gatherings that served as forums for anti-spanish criticism women like manuela served as spies and 1.00

00:30:44.140 couriers as well as nurses armed smugglers and provisioners of food and clothing i wonder if 1.00

00:30:48.720 they could smuggle like the weapons in their like outfit they're like big skirt and the veil thing 1.00

00:30:55.260 i don't know sometimes in disguise women would join in the battles dressed as men

00:31:00.360 um they also were quote recruiters to the cause um like they convinced people to join the patriot

00:31:08.200 cause who maybe were loyalists before by using seduction and then kind of like when you know how

00:31:16.620 in i guess it was world war ii like the men went off to war and then the women stayed at home but 0.99

00:31:22.880 it's like who's gonna like run the car factories or whatever and so women like did all these jobs

00:31:26.620 and then the men came back and the women were like actually we like doing work and having jobs

00:31:30.480 so because women were needed and were welcomed into this patriot revolution um this made the 0.52

00:31:38.080 women be like wait a minute i like independence i like being able to do stuff like what if there

00:31:43.440 is a role beyond wife, mother, and or daughter. During this era, one of Manuela's friends who

00:31:53.480 she made was the similarly intelligent, attractive, and flirtatious Rosita Campuzano,

00:31:59.840 who is also passionate about la revolucion. I don't know a lot about Rosita, but basically

00:32:06.640 they're both co-hosting salons in support of revolutionary action, organizing women into

00:32:13.560 groups to raise money for shipbuilding and uniforms. Rosita became the lover of General

00:32:19.440 José de San Martín, the military figure known as the protector of Peru. So yeah, some of the

00:32:26.980 like specific things Manuela did. So she participated in clothing drives to amass 1.00

00:32:33.280 fabric and clothing to resupply the Patriot Army. And in fact, she was so involved, not just in like

00:32:39.220 running a clothing drive or like having bake sales, but all the other stuff I said, you know,

00:32:44.320 arms smuggling and like a spy and things. So her devotion to the cause was noticed and appreciated.

00:32:53.680 So she got public honor and recognition, including an official award, the Order of the Sun.

00:33:00.600 so this entitled her to wear a white and red silk sash with a gold medal bearing the government's

00:33:06.640 coat of arms and the phrase to the patriotism of the most delicate so there's like the order of

00:33:13.160 the sun brackets male which men like who are really i don't know notable patriots would get

00:33:21.000 and that came along with like jobs and pensions women got like a sash but it was still very

00:33:27.920 prestigious so how did her husband james thorne um and her family from spain feel about this

00:33:36.940 so uh what we know is that her father's her father and most of his family eventually returned

00:33:45.560 to spain so they were not fans of la revolution uh james thorne i do not believe was all about

00:33:54.540 this patriotic life, but he like really liked his young wife. Um, and frankly couldn't stop her. So

00:34:02.700 I don't know if he tried to stop her at this point. So this is kind of what she's doing.

00:34:07.380 She's like a young woman who's like, and I know there's like some young people listening to this

00:34:11.180 podcast. So I know this because sometimes you tag me on Tik TOK. Um, you know, there's like some

00:34:19.520 teens there's some youth who are like in the tits of brigade brackets junior varsity level

00:34:25.700 and i love this sort of um arc for her i think it might be similar to what maybe some of you

00:34:33.000 are like in the midst of where you go from being kind of like a young person who is just kind of

00:34:39.000 like learning about the world and then you kind of learn about politics and activism and then like

00:34:44.500 you see this so much with like gen z these days like so her eyes were opened about these struggles

00:34:50.320 that were happening she saw you know the struggle between like the patriots and the loyalists and

00:34:55.500 she's just like i'm on team patriots hardcore like let's get this done she's like there's these

00:35:01.440 opportunities for women to do stuff and she's just like hell yeah let's do it so she's like 1.00

00:35:05.840 getting her groove like she's just figuring out that she wants to be this kind of like 1.00

00:35:09.440 revolutionary, like activist person, pursuing her dreams. She's also a real weirdo,

00:35:18.220 which like, she loves pranks. She loves jokes. She like, like a quote I read just recently,

00:35:24.680 you know, obviously the passing of Angela Lansbury was a cultural reset for many people.

00:35:32.180 if there was a queue in London like I would stand in line for 72 hours to pay respects to Angela

00:35:39.820 Lansbury my ultimate life role model but I read a thing about her where somebody said what one of

00:35:46.060 the many things that's great about Angela Lansbury was that she took her work seriously but she

00:35:50.860 didn't take herself seriously and that's what I feel about Manuela because she's got and I don't

00:35:57.380 know like we're going to talk about her sort of like legacy and stuff in part two next week but

00:36:01.480 some people just focus on she was like this heroine of the revolution which she was or some

00:36:07.840 people focus on like she was the mistress of simone bolivar which like we're about to get to 0.88

00:36:11.780 that but she was also just like a real goofball like she had a fake mustache that she would wear 1.00

00:36:17.420 to parties and just she sometimes like dress up like a man in pants to be like haha i'm a man and

00:36:22.320 everyone's like you're hilarious like she just sounds like a real laugh and you can be all these

00:36:27.940 things you can be like a chaotic prankster and like a really committed revolutionary and like a

00:36:34.380 super sexy woman like you don't have to choose that's that's my message to the youth and now

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00:38:00.180 The war is over and both sides lost.

00:38:04.520 Kingdoms were reduced to cinders

00:38:06.380 and armies scattered like bones in the dust.

00:38:09.980 Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world,

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00:38:43.360 Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark.

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00:39:01.320 Welcome to the realms of peril and glory.

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00:39:31.040 and we're back anyway so she's just like all in the revolution and then

00:39:43.000 she and her husband, so 1822, they went for a trip back to Quito, which was partially because

00:39:50.340 her husband had business dealings to do there. Potentially he was like, what if we just like

00:39:55.320 remove you from this like revolution business? But also she personally had this ongoing quest

00:40:02.080 to try to get inheritance from her mother's family who were back in Quito. So I think

00:40:06.560 for her, that was a lot of what she planned to do there. So the thing with the inheritance

00:40:11.060 is that her mother's family had like all died there's only one person left which was her aunt

00:40:16.680 ignicia who was the sole executor of the ais puru estate and manuela was like can i get some

00:40:23.740 inheritance like i am the daughter of your sister maria joaquina but ignacia refused to accept the 0.99

00:40:29.220 claim potentially to cover up like like no my sister didn't have a child out of wedlock so i

00:40:34.460 don't know if it was like that reason so anyway she was in town to like talk to ignacia about this

00:40:39.540 stuff, but guess who else was in Quito at this same time? Just a guy named Simon Bolivar.

00:40:49.600 Now this is a name I had heard before. Could not have told you who he was or what era he lived in,

00:40:54.260 but now I know an awful lot about him and you're about to learn too. So Simon Bolivar was born in

00:41:00.880 Caracas, which is in modern day Venezuela. And I think oldie times Venezuela as well,

00:41:06.160 or maybe it was part of the new Granada. Anyway, that's where he was born. 1783. So he's like

00:41:13.440 15 years older than Manuela. So he was the son of a noble Spanish Creole family. So yeah. So he's

00:41:21.580 39 years old when he rolled into Quito at the same time Manuela was there. So Simone was orphaned

00:41:26.880 very young, but he was very rich and also light complexioned. So he did just fine. He was raised

00:41:34.560 by his wealthy family. And part of, he was educated incredibly well, which included being

00:41:41.120 sent to Europe. So he was sophisticated and cosmopolitan, perhaps more so than a lot of

00:41:50.560 other people in this area who maybe hadn't been to Europe or hadn't had the opportunity to read

00:41:55.460 as much like philosophy or whatever. And so by the time he got to Quito, like again, for this

00:42:01.940 monumental meeting of him and Manuela. So he was known as the Liberator, a title he earned

00:42:09.000 about a decade prior for his prominent role in Venezuela's anti-Spanish insurgency and for his

00:42:15.120 leadership of Spanish America's largest, most dynamic patriot movement. So he's like a George

00:42:22.920 Washington, if that's who led the American Revolution, comma, I don't actually know,

00:42:28.260 slash Napoleon kind of figure. He's just like the guy who like led this kind of like,

00:42:35.100 let's do our own thing army. So this army under his leadership allowed him to begin realizing

00:42:41.540 his political vision and to create a Colombian Republic. So this Republic is like, then it was

00:42:48.320 called the Republic of Columbia, but like today the country of Columbia is the Republic of

00:42:52.980 Colombia. So to not confuse things when we're talking about the oldie time one, we call it

00:42:57.480 Gran Colombia. And so his goal was for Gran Colombia to kind of replace the vice royalty

00:43:04.960 of New Granada, which was like a Spain thing. And to make this be like its own independent

00:43:10.080 thing, he dreamed of Spanish American unity. So the capital of Gran Colombia was Bogotá.

00:43:17.520 and it was basically the same place that was the vice royalty of new granada um modern day

00:43:24.500 venezuela colombia ecuador and panama were kind of what gran colombia comprised so bolivar was

00:43:31.920 elected the first president of gran colombia and he was on his way to becoming the most powerful

00:43:37.520 and prestigious man in spanish america he also had tuberculosis so he would we'll talk about that

00:43:44.120 later. But so he's doing all this stuff, but he would also just every now and then, I assume,

00:43:48.320 I imagine, delicately cough into a handkerchief. It's like, oh no, there's blood. Like Satine in

00:43:53.100 Moulin Rouge. So yeah, kind of like Napoleon had been recently to them. And that was his hero,

00:44:00.480 I think. Believer was a military hero and a revolutionary champion, destroyer of an old

00:44:05.360 caste system and builder of new independent republics. He was also a conqueror. Like he

00:44:11.940 was not in Quito for fun, but he was there because he had just conquered it to make it part of Grand

00:44:18.200 Columbia. So this was like a huge affair. So Believer was paraded into town. The residents

00:44:23.800 of Quito were like, we're going to celebrate this because we don't want to get in trouble,

00:44:29.160 but also maybe they're happy about it. I don't know. So the residents of Quito decorated their

00:44:33.640 homes with flowers and red, blue, and gold flags, advertising their new identity as Colombian

00:44:38.040 citizens. They cheered and watched him arrive in like this grand military parade. So there's 300

00:44:44.040 military officers came to the town square and then another 700 horsemen joined the festivities. He

00:44:50.140 was given like a garland crown. Uh, there was a special Thanksgiving mass, like, thank you for

00:44:55.600 like making us be not part of Spain anymore. And then that night there was a private ball at the

00:45:02.460 home of a prominent family. And allegedly, this is where Bolivar met Manuela. So we don't know

00:45:11.940 that for sure, because if we're just going by only things that are in letters, no one wrote a letter

00:45:15.800 like, oh my god, when we met at that party that night. But like, probably that's, Manuela would

00:45:21.320 have been there. So one of her brothers, like her half-brother, was on the Patriot side, and he was

00:45:28.020 unmarried. So he would have had a plus one for this ball. So potentially he brought her as his

00:45:32.580 date. Anyway, so the two of them met and they hit it off right away because she was

00:45:40.120 lively and energetic and weird and beautiful. And he like, liked beautiful women who were smart.

00:45:48.100 So they both, but like intellectually, like she had been given a good education at that convent,

00:45:53.380 the party convent. He had been like, obviously educated super well as well. So they're all

00:45:57.960 like oh my god you like voltaire's philosophy me too so they both yeah they both admire the same

00:46:04.140 heroes thinkers and writers both were veterans in the fight against spain both also had reputations

00:46:09.180 as very sexy people as well as revolutionaries like simone was like he had a wife and the wife

00:46:14.740 died and then he just kind of was like love him and leave him like he would just like take lovers

00:46:19.060 wherever he went so he's like kind of a ladies man but then also her like sexy weird energy

00:46:25.900 brought him new energy because he had like long tuberculosis or whatever you call it whenever you

00:46:31.260 have tuberculosis for a long time yeah so she was hilarious and weird and he vibed with her chaotic

00:46:38.600 energy he found her like you are not like anyone i've ever met and she's like hell yeah i'm not

00:46:42.960 so yeah so like lots of people had affairs especially in the like criollo um like rich

00:46:50.560 white people class just like everyone had affairs everywhere in the rich everything people

00:46:55.740 class in like every country forever and still do but the thing is you like don't talk about it you

00:47:01.960 just like you have affairs and it's like an open secret like how the identity of her mother was an

00:47:06.900 open secret but you just like don't let anyone know about it so like she was of course married

00:47:13.600 which was like you know scandals in another way i guess so they like became lovers but it wasn't like

00:47:22.920 he wasn't open about it. She wasn't like, Hey, this is I'm Bolivar. And this is my lover,

00:47:28.640 Manuela. Like they had to kind of keep it under wraps because she was like married. And I don't

00:47:33.260 know. I don't know. It's just that whole stupid thing where it's like people are having affairs.

00:47:37.660 We have to pretend like you're not whatever. Anyway, here's some examples of Manuela being 0.99

00:47:43.580 hilarious. So in one of her letters, she said herself, like she loves nothing better than a

00:47:48.420 good joke. She never took herself too seriously. And she loved pranks. She loved pulling pranks.

00:47:54.780 Here's one of her hilarious pranks. So she had a friend or like a group of friends,

00:48:00.200 like lady friends who she would meet to go horseback riding. And one morning,

00:48:03.920 like when they had arranged to meet to go horseback riding, she arrived disguised as a man

00:48:07.680 wearing her fake mustache and an officer's uniform. Before anyone could recognize who it was,

00:48:12.940 She was like, ha, ha, ha, and then like ran off on her horse.

00:48:15.400 So just like random, silly good times, pants-wearing, disguised mustache.

00:48:23.040 This is what's going on.

00:48:24.760 Would it surprise you to know that some historians of the 20th century were like,

00:48:29.140 hmm, pants-wearing, fake mustache? 1.00

00:48:32.080 She must have been some sort of like intersex person or like some sort of insane lesbian 1.00

00:48:37.440 where it's like, or she was just like a hilarious person who wore pants sometimes. 1.00

00:48:42.940 And anyway, Believer wrote, like, obviously she was beautiful, but he said he loved her

00:48:49.500 for her delightful temperament and her enchanting spirit, even more than her like hotness.

00:48:54.480 He referred to her as his dear mad woman, like, because she was just like, she had a personality 0.74

00:49:01.080 and she's going to let it shine. And as soon as she met Believer, she's just like, this is it.

00:49:06.920 Like, I'm your lover. Like so long, James Thorne. This is the end. James Thorne was like,

00:49:12.300 but what about not leaving me? And she was like, no. In one letter, because a lot of what we know

00:49:19.300 about her is like from her letters. So I'm going to read you. Like he wrote her a letter being like,

00:49:23.300 please come be my wife again. I'm really boring. And she wrote, quote, no, no, no, no. For God's

00:49:29.620 sake, man, 1000 times. No, I will not go back to you. So yeah, that's what she thinks. However,

00:49:38.540 as much as she was devoted to believer he was like busy traveling around conquering being the

00:49:44.680 president of gran colombia and so she's just like i don't love this like being stuck in quito i think

00:49:51.220 that's where she was staying i think um for business reasons for her husband's business 0.87

00:49:56.220 so she's just like i don't love being here for like six months nine months and like not seeing

00:50:00.960 my lover so she figured out a way that she could travel with him which was that she joined his

00:50:05.800 entourage by getting herself a job as his personal archivist. So there's, you know, an archivist is

00:50:13.440 not the same thing as a librarian, but as I am personally a librarian, I respect that she

00:50:17.940 took this career path. So this was obviously, but I'll just point out a very unusual thing

00:50:24.100 for a woman to do as few women at the time occupied positions on the staff of armies, 0.94

00:50:30.120 but crucially her job meant that she got a paycheck and her own independent income. So 0.99

00:50:35.420 she was more free to like leave James Thorne, but also be with her lover all the time. 0.80

00:50:40.520 Side note, she's also an excellent equestrian. And we've had several of those lately. 0.85

00:50:46.860 Cece also being an excellent equestrian who we looked at. 0.99

00:50:50.980 And her outfit that she took to wear was red pants and a black velvet poncho.

00:50:56.580 Her loose curly hair falling out from under a plumed hat. She also, I think during her time

00:51:01.360 with the army. She learned to become skilled with a sword and pistol, but remember she already knew

00:51:06.180 how to drink, swear, and smoke. She was often described as eccentric. People are like, is she

00:51:12.260 a lesbian because she wears pants? Even though she was also like the lover of a man. Anyway, here's a 1.00

00:51:19.660 quote. She would dress up during the day as an official, and during the night she went through

00:51:23.500 a metamorphosis with the help of some wine. So Manuela was following him, but always at a distance

00:51:31.040 because like people, you know, you didn't want to spread where he was going because Bolivar had

00:51:34.960 lots of enemies. So because although they had like independence from Spain now, there's a lot of like

00:51:42.000 civil infighting because he was like, I'm the president now of all these places that used to

00:51:46.900 be their own thing. And all those places were like, what if you're not our president and we

00:51:51.120 are our own thing again? So everyone didn't love what Bolivar was doing. It's kind of like they

00:51:56.860 had all united against spain but once there wasn't a common enemy they were like now we'll fight each

00:52:01.540 other i guess so anyway yeah so she moved at a distance so that she wasn't with him partially

00:52:08.860 because she had to protect the precious archive so she was just like a bookmobile person just

00:52:13.300 like traveling around with all these letters she was his chief confidant secretary and advisor

00:52:19.800 remember he has tuberculosis so she would read to him when he was tired and cared for him when he

00:52:25.280 was sick. Simone's aide-de-camp, Daniel Florencio O'Leary, Irish name, suggested that she be made

00:52:34.080 a colonel, and people began to refer to her as Bolívar's woman. There was a big, momentous

00:52:41.660 battle, December 9th, 1824, the Battle of Ayacucho, Peru, in which Bolívar's army won,

00:52:48.620 and Spain lost the, there was the last stand for Spain to try to be in charge of anything

00:52:54.860 in South America. So there is a strong legend that Manuela was at this battle and that to prove

00:53:04.660 that she'd been at the battle, she like cut off the mustache of a man who had died and then wore

00:53:10.040 that mustache around as a joke. This has not been proven, but what a story. And also hilarious.

00:53:20.040 We know she had a fake mustache. Maybe she like one time made a joke like, oh yeah, I got this

00:53:24.560 mustache off a man I killed in battle. And someone was like, she killed a man in battle and scalped

00:53:28.420 his mustache. Like anyway, from what Pamela Murray found in her book, where she was like looking at

00:53:34.520 actual records, not just like legends and whatever, rumors. We don't know that Manuela or Simon were

00:53:42.180 at this actual battle, but I'm sure they were happy that it went that way. So April, so that

00:53:48.120 was December 1824. April 1825, Bolívar began a long sort of like, I'm the president now, sort of

00:53:54.140 like glory tour of Southern Peru and Bolivia. Territory just freed from the Spanish, leaving

00:54:01.620 Manuela behind in Lima or kind of like the suburbs of Lima. He didn't see her for nine months. So

00:54:08.260 again, this is like, we know a lot of their relationship from letters because they were

00:54:12.300 just apart a lot. Like he, and they wrote about how much they loved each other and stuff, kind of

00:54:17.340 like Harem Sultan Suleiman vibes a bit, but eventually he was kind of like, maybe we should

00:54:23.320 like break up. But the wording of it suggests maybe this is because her goddamn husband, 1.00

00:54:30.560 James Thorne, like how many no's does he need in one letter? Clearly more than 12. 0.99

00:54:37.580 I guess might've gone to Bolivar to be like, please break up with her. So my like wife will 0.91

00:54:42.440 come back to this boring life with me, even though she's clearly really well suited to being 0.99

00:54:46.220 on the revolution. Anyway, so Bolivar might've been like, okay. Anyway, but you know, he couldn't

00:54:54.380 quit her and she couldn't quit him and so he returned to Lima and they like rather than break

00:55:00.840 up they kind of made it official like he started paying for her to have her own house it was very

00:55:06.980 much like with um Charles II or Louis XIV with the like official mistress role like she like had her

00:55:15.360 own home which like side note I very much respect relationships in which people live separately I

00:55:20.800 think that's healthy and more people should do it anyway so she lived in her own house and just

00:55:25.700 everyone it was no longer a secret she was his mistress out of the shadows so now that she was 0.57

00:55:32.120 like official mistress and like not on the move all the time so she took on the role similar to 0.87

00:55:37.400 the mistresses for like Charles II and stuff she would sort of people come to her with like

00:55:42.940 requests and she could like intercede on behalf of like refugees or other distressed individuals

00:55:48.700 like harem sultan she really had a soft spot for people who were in trouble or like financially

00:55:54.460 especially she began looking after the needs of believers men especially soldiers or junior

00:55:59.900 officers who were ill she interceded with believer on behalf of individuals seeking pardon or

00:56:05.620 clemency and i imagine this is part of why she is seen as this heroic figure to ecuador as well like

00:56:12.080 she wasn't just like she was a cool lady wearing pants on a horse in revolution being hilarious 0.58

00:56:17.960 with a mustache but she was also like doing all this philanthropic stuff like she was being like 0.78

00:56:22.540 kind and good and it's kind of like princess diana-esque way but also weird and also sexy

00:56:28.840 and this is why i want to tell the youth you don't have to choose you can be all those things

00:56:32.480 but as this was happening and she was thriving believe are not doing so great like vis-a-vis

00:56:38.740 tuberculosis and also vis-a-vis he was like voted in to be the dictator like it sounds like parliament

00:56:45.580 like literally said, like, please be a dictator. And he's like, yeah. His enemies did not like

00:56:51.060 that he was now the dictator, his enemies being largely the people of Peru. They're in Lima. So

00:56:59.740 like kind of surrounded by enemies. So there's lots of plots and conspiracies cooking up all

00:57:04.980 over the place. One of these was some Peruvian anti-Bolivar types. Notice that there is this one

00:57:11.980 division of the army who was like maybe discontent and the anti-Bolivar people were like,

00:57:18.440 we can like, let's just make them be like even more mad. And then maybe they'll like mutiny.

00:57:23.560 So this was the third division of the Colombian army who had been left behind,

00:57:28.520 I guess in Lima. They were mad about various stuff, like not being paid.

00:57:33.180 Understandable. So these guys, like they did mutiny. They rose against their senior commanding

00:57:37.060 officers, seized control of a palace in Lima, and then some more Peruvian civilians joined this

00:57:43.340 protest, and Manuela, who was there, was like, oh God, no, what's going on? Because Simone was off

00:57:48.400 doing whatever, but she was still there. So first of all, she was like, the archives, her commitment

00:57:54.920 to these letters and this archive is really commendable. She's just like, the archive must

00:58:01.160 protect it. So she's like, smuggled out the archives. And then she's also like, I'm going

00:58:04.840 to settle this myself with my awesome mediation skills so she put on her pants literally she put 1.00

00:58:09.740 on her colonel style man uniform maybe her mustache i like to think so um got her like pistol and her

00:58:18.780 sword and she went to like personally speak to the members of the battalion to try to convince 0.72

00:58:23.740 them to like stop the mutiny um but she knew that like she wasn't going to convince them with just

00:58:28.560 words so she also like began distributing money among the sergeant corporals to try and persuade

00:58:33.760 them slash bribe them to resist this rebellion against the rebellion. She had some success with

00:58:41.060 this, but her actions bothered the authorities of Peru because they hated Believer and she was

00:58:48.080 helping Believer. So they burst into her home to arrest her. She was like, oh, can you do it in the

00:58:54.140 morning? It's late and I'm sleepy. And they're like, okay. And then wildly, they just waited

00:58:58.220 while she slept through the night. And then in the morning, they took her to a women's prison, 1.00

00:59:02.820 which I think was just like a part of a convent nunnery type situation. 0.57

00:59:07.900 And she was kept there for several months being so annoying.

00:59:11.920 Eventually they released her.

00:59:14.020 She wrote letters of complaint and she had enough friends in high places

00:59:17.300 that eventually she won her release.

00:59:20.700 But they were like, okay, we're going to release you,

00:59:23.140 but you have to leave Peru and you can never come back to Peru.

00:59:26.780 And you have to leave within 24 hours.

00:59:28.880 And so she's like, deal, got it. 0.55

00:59:31.840 Farewell Peru.

00:59:32.820 So she got on a ship to leave.

00:59:35.660 And by this point, just her legend was so strong.

00:59:38.680 She herself was known as the Libertadora.

00:59:42.680 So sort of like Simone was the liberator and she was the Libertadora, the like lady liberator.

00:59:50.620 A public legend to match Bolivar in the minds of some.

00:59:55.480 And that's where we're going to leave it for this week.

00:59:57.460 Next week, we're going to learn more about Manuela. 0.80

01:00:00.560 and like now that she and simone are like in the same city you know how does their relationship go

01:00:06.560 we'll talk about that next time so oh i wanted to mention because in last year i did some like

01:00:13.700 halloween super special episodes and i think this is the episode that's airing closest to halloween

01:00:18.160 but also because we're looking at south american stories and because uh hispanic slash latina slash

01:00:26.740 latinx heritage month just ended i wanted to give some recommendations so for instance

01:00:34.140 if you want to listen to some there's so many um spooky like ghost monster stories coming out of

01:00:42.600 like south america central america mexico that there are like a bunch of podcasts about it one

01:00:47.840 of which is spooky tales which is hosted by christina who is the editor of this podcast

01:00:53.800 and so I super recommend you listen to that. It's like a spooky tales, like E-S-P-O-O-K-Y

01:00:59.400 tales. I also super recommend Monstras podcast, which I mentioned before. They did an episode

01:01:06.320 about Malincene slash Malinche and like what kind of like Malinche in myth and legend anyway. So

01:01:13.220 it's like Halloween slash day of the dead are approaching. If you want to listen to some good

01:01:17.340 ghost stories. Those are two excellent podcasts to scratch that itch. And also, yeah. So if you

01:01:28.420 go to vulgarhistory.com, that's one of the places where you can suggest people who you think that

01:01:33.620 I might want to talk about in future episodes. Like, as I've said, like this season is like,

01:01:39.040 we're inching towards ending international, but there's going to be more seasons like,

01:01:44.480 and I'm going to always want to share stories from all different countries. So please let me

01:01:47.960 know. Yeah. So vulgarhistory.com is a place where you can send me emails. You can also send me DMs

01:01:53.360 where we are on Instagram at vulgarhistorypod, where I will be putting pictures of Manuela

01:01:57.200 and also of that like outfit with the veil. So you can see what I'm talking about.

01:02:01.940 You can also follow slash read out to me on Twitter at vulgarhistory. And if you want to

01:02:07.180 support the show, you can go to patreon.com slash annfosterwriter. That's where. So for $1 a

01:02:13.220 months, you get early access to the podcast, which is also ad free. You usually get it about

01:02:18.300 five days in advance and ad free. And then for, if you pledge $5 a month, then you get access to

01:02:25.060 the bonus episodes that I do. So, so this asshole at this point, I feel like Simone Bolivar is 0.96

01:02:30.380 someone I want to learn about for that. Although the people on Patreon have been voting and 0.97

01:02:36.160 Genghis Khan, I think might be the next one of those I'm doing. The most recent one of those 0.99

01:02:40.740 of So This Ass All I Did was Christopher Columbus, who was just like, 1.00

01:02:44.140 hui. And then also that's where we do Vulgar Peace Theater, where I'm joined by Lana Wood 0.78

01:02:48.760 Johnson, Alison Epstein. We talk about costume dramas. Our most recent one is we talked about

01:02:53.540 Newsies. And then next month, we're going to be talking about Queen Margot, which is finally

01:02:59.100 on streaming. And I recommend everybody watch that movie, even if you're not going to listen

01:03:03.200 to that podcast. You can shop at vulgarhistory.store. Use code TITSOUT for free US shipping

01:03:10.440 or tits out 10 for 10% off. And I hope you have a great week. Keep your mustache and pants on

01:03:18.740 and your tits out. And I'll talk to you all next time. 1.00

01:03:23.420 Folker History is hosted, written, and researched by Anne Foster and edited by Christina Lumaki.

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Vulgar History - October 26, 2022

International, part 32： Manuela Sáenz： Revolutionary (pt 1⧸2)

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