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00:00:30.000Hello, and welcome to Vulgar History, a feminist women's history comedy podcast.
00:00:34.340My name is Anne Foster. Sitting next to me is my cat Hepburn, who you may be able to hear purring.
00:00:38.920She's real purry right now. And that's just a sort of professional business colleague
00:00:43.760relationship she and I have at the moment. Today is a very special episode because our guest is
00:00:50.620a person whose name you've heard me say at the end of every single episode since I want to say
00:00:55.3002022 it's christina lumagi who is the editor of vulgar history and also has several of her own
00:01:03.420podcasts which we talk about towards the end of this so you can listen to and subscribe and buy
00:01:08.540the merch for all of her shows as well but i really i've wanted to have her on the podcast
00:01:12.620forever and i'm glad we finally figured out a time and a way to do it and what she's going to
00:01:17.300be talking about is some mexican history so the last time we talked about mexican history on this
00:01:23.220podcast was i think 2022 um during the international season we were talking about
00:01:29.820malinzine aka la malinche who was in the pantheon of just kind of like shitty things that happened to
00:01:39.680indigenous women of north america when europeans came i think she's in a squad with
00:01:46.420matoka aka pocahontas there as well anyway so we talk a bit about what gets us to the point
00:01:52.920that we're talking about in this episode of Mexican history, which is basically a lot of
00:01:57.140rebellions and wars and European countries coming in and trying to take over. And I just want to
00:02:03.720situate this in a place and time. This is more recent than a lot of what we've talked about on
00:02:08.360the podcast before. We're talking about the Las Soldaderas, who were the women who fought
00:02:14.460alongside men, alongside everybody in the Mexican revolution of the early 20th century.
00:02:21.080so we're talking late 1800s early 1900s i mean in terms of who we've talked about on the show
00:02:26.600who lived around then like anna may wong was born in 1905 so she was around while this was
00:02:33.280all happening helen keller was born towards the late 1800s marguerite steinheil we haven't really
00:02:40.260talked about a lot of people from this period and we also haven't talked a lot of people from
00:02:43.580mexico so i'm really so happy that christina lumagi is here to to tell us the story of all
00:02:49.640these interesting pants wearing people. So please enjoy. So I'm joined by a very special guest
00:03:02.260whose name you hear me say at the end of every episode, but she's never been on the podcast
00:03:06.900before. Christina Lumagi. Welcome. Hi, I'm so excited to be here and to talk to you sort of
00:03:14.640in person yeah i know to like me well just to see what we look like right yeah so we're talking
00:03:21.480about mexican history and first i want to say you have you have several podcasts including one about
00:03:27.260latin american history can you explain all your podcasts you have yeah yeah one just ended so i'm
00:03:32.740not even gonna talk about that one but it was a mexican soap opera re-watched podcast where we
00:03:37.540watched one soap opera but my other one uh as spooky tells we talk about haunted places myths
00:03:43.620legends in Latin America. Sometimes people come and tell us their paranormal experiences. That's
00:03:48.420one of them. And I co-hosted with my friend and my twin. And it's a lot of fun if you like scary
00:03:53.500stories, but also to laugh a little bit. And then the other one I have with my twin is Historias
00:03:58.980Unknown. And we talk about Latin American history or Latino Latina history in the US. And it's a lot
00:04:05.520of stuff that maybe you're like, damn, why didn't I know this before? That was like the whole reason0.86
00:04:09.040we even started it. Because, yeah, we ran into a bunch of stories. I'm like, why isn't this taught
00:04:13.360in school. Well, I mean, as you know, that's like what I keep finding in my podcast too. I'm just
00:04:17.720like, why didn't I know that? And like, listeners are like, no one told me this. I'm like, I know,
00:04:22.000I know. People need to know this stuff. But I think there's a real, I'm trying to find more
00:04:27.240Latin American history, like for my show, just I know there's lots of listeners and like Mexico
00:04:31.200and South America and stuff. And I want to learn about it too. So this is perfect to have you on
00:04:36.400here because this is your area of experience. Can I ask a question? Like you are of Mexican
00:04:42.000heritage, right? Yes. My mom is Mexican. And then my dad is from El Salvador. So even a country even
00:04:49.360less talks about than Mexico. Yeah, I haven't. I haven't found anyone for my podcast about El
00:04:54.340Salvador. But who knows one day, maybe. Well, I'm always available. So in terms of Mexican history,
00:05:00.780like, do you know what your ancestors were doing during this period, the Mexican Revolution?
00:05:04.500I know so little. So I know that my great grandma, I think she was a kid at the time in Zacatecas and they were like hiding out whenever the rebels passed through or any army, not just the rebels, but both because there was so many, so many sides to everything.
00:05:23.740um but yeah they would they just were in their little um rancho like a farm and yeah just living
00:05:30.440and i don't know anything about my grandpa's side of the family um i wonder oh no i was just gonna
00:05:35.640say just so the listeners know this is kind of the episode like your ancestors were like they're
00:05:39.820hiding and then you know big reveal my grandmother was mexican this hasn't come up on the podcast
00:05:47.460before big reveal big reveal when you look at my skin tone yeah so my father's mother she was born
00:05:54.100in 1906 in mexico and this revolution like kicked off and what it's like 1910 yes 1910 yeah so when
00:06:01.900she was a little girl basically her mother was mexican my great-grandmother my great-grandfather
00:06:07.100was american like he's an american businessman in mexico fell in love stayed there but then because
00:06:11.620he was american they had to flee during this because that the revolutionaries were not fans
00:06:17.040of the Americans so yeah so just what I know like from my aunts and uncles because I never knew my
00:06:22.120grandmother very well for obvious reasons yeah she was born in 1906 I met her maybe once she had a
00:06:28.280very she still had a very strong Mexican accent I remember that she spoke fluent Spanish still
00:06:32.800anyway but she so she just remembers being a little girl going on a really crowded train
00:06:38.200and then going on a boat and like fleeing and escaping man yeah so this is like I don't know
00:06:45.760much about mexican history but i'm like this like you and i like our literal ancestors were like
00:06:50.420running away and hiding that's so weird yeah small small world i guess yeah i am so it's the
00:06:58.700closest i've felt personally to one of these stories but yeah so first can you please explain
00:07:03.840we're not going to go through the whole history of mexico because it was just yeah it's a lot a lot
00:07:08.220a lot of people invading and a lot of revolutions happening but can you situate us into like the
00:07:12.780mexican revolution like when was this and what what caused it so the mexican revolution it takes
00:07:18.880place during what we call the porfiriato which is when mexican dictator porfirio diaz uh he just
00:07:26.120kept being a dictator i guess really there was already like these like smaller battles kind of
00:07:31.780brewing because people wanted him out um i mean he ruled with an iron fist it was good for the rich
00:07:37.220as these things usually go very good for the rich bad for the poor the poor always tend to be
00:07:42.540rural areas indigenous people or overcrowded cities like a mexico city was thriving again0.61
00:07:49.140for the rich but not for the poor so uh there was all these like people banding against him
00:07:54.180yeah even before that we had late 1800s 1880s the french had just invaded it was like that's
00:08:01.960the cinco de mayo battle that was the second french intervention um and then there was like
00:08:07.260a little moment of peace but then yeah then it was the porfiriato can i just jump in and say from
00:08:12.320like my brief trying to understand all of this because I was also confused because there's like
00:08:16.880Cinco de Mayo, but then there's also Independence Day, which is a separate thing. And that's from
00:08:21.220the first Mexican War of Independence, which is from like 1810. So that's a hundred years before
00:08:26.360and that's getting independence from Spain. Yes, yes. And that was on September 16th.
00:08:33.120The Mexican Revolution, which started in 1910, it started with the call to arms to overthrow
00:08:38.480Porfirio Diaz. There was a lot of well-known figures that like people would probably recognize
00:08:44.120names because each one of these figures had then their own armies. So we have like Emiliano Zapata,
00:08:50.700Pancho Villa, Venustiano Carranza, Francisco Madero, and they all were called like the
00:08:56.760Zapatistas, the Villistas, the Carrancistas. I have a hundred percent heard those words. Yeah,
00:09:02.600yeah. So they all had their own kind of, were they working together or these are like
00:09:07.040different factions yeah so you know in the beginning they were working together because
00:09:11.980it was like this united front to overthrow Porfiria Diaz that was like the main goal but then as time
00:09:17.740went on because it was it was a 10-year revolution it was a long time as time went on there was
00:09:23.620betrayal betrayal among themselves fighting amongst themselves but those are the rebels
00:09:30.320basically and then you have the federal army or the nationalists but that's like the other side
00:09:36.640there's that we don't like really care about we don't really need do we need to know the names
00:09:41.040not really no we don't the rebels are who we're all rooting for in this situation the other guys
00:09:46.980they're just kind of the government yes yes and like i mean bad things happen on both sides oh
00:09:53.540victor victoriano huerta so they were the huertistas um that was one of them i mean yeah
00:10:00.900but bad things happen on both sides women fought on both sides of the war it was like
00:10:05.460it was such a divided war too because even among the the elite there was like oh the sons of the
00:10:13.020elite were like against their fathers it was yeah brother against father um families fighting
00:10:19.100against each other and yeah women on both sides of the war well and again i'm just picturing you
00:10:23.780know like your ancestors just kind of like trying to keep their heads down and stay out of it like
00:10:28.740my ancestors like fleeing like i get it like everyone you're either you're on one side or the
00:10:33.440other like nobody can just kind of like live their day-to-day life like it's just yeah but pick a
00:10:38.480side yeah yeah and then you have like the rural areas like where Emiliano Zapata was from that
00:10:43.500it was like really in their best interest to revolt because they were in the worst conditions
00:10:48.460I mean they were you know working on this land that was taken from them for almost like no money
00:10:54.300the rich landowners who were all usually of Spanish descent or you know mestizos which are
00:11:02.300like the Spanish and indigenous mix, but then like generations ahead where it's almost like
00:11:07.720not even considered indigenous anymore. These are the people that had all the money. And so the
00:11:13.640left, which was like Emiliano Zapata, I mean, they had more reasons to revolt than like other
00:11:19.000areas where they're like, oh, we just want to hide. We don't even know what's going on. And I
00:11:22.240mean, I think that's like a common thing in a lot of wars. Yeah, definitely. I mean, no spoilers,
00:11:28.560coming up actually maybe spoilers i don't know when this podcast is coming up i'm gonna be
00:11:33.440announcing soon what the next season's theme is and there's a lot of revolution in it and it's
00:11:37.640exactly that it's exactly that it's always like the poor people like the farmers like the people
00:11:42.360like the not elites like that they just get fed up like that's where every revolution has
00:11:48.000always started so that's just happening in mexico as it did in other places but we're talking about0.51
00:11:53.960the women the what do you call them i call them las soldaderas but they're known as uh by many
00:12:02.160names las adelitas the song la cucaracha um was said to be uh written about one of them
00:12:09.000no what yeah yeah the one we all know like the original not original one set of of like very
00:12:20.440very old lyrics is based on a soldadera written by uh someone that was like for the federalist0.99
00:12:27.060basically talking um shit about them where they're like oh these dirty cockroaches are0.99
00:12:33.760just here is that what cucaracha means cucaracha means cockroach oh yeah yeah yeah oh my god oh0.99
00:12:39.600my god so that was a diss track about them oh yeah there is a version that's a diss track about
00:12:44.240las soldaderas but specifically the ones on the rebel side because again there was on both sides
00:12:49.640right right but yeah they're known by many names um in media they're often depicted like these1.00
00:12:54.660very sexy women with like the bandoliers i think is what they're called like the you know little1.00
00:13:00.300bullet belts yeah yeah but i mean that's not that's not what they were they were like women0.98
00:13:05.420trying to survive and some of them some of them were badass yeah yeah and that's what we're going
00:13:10.800to talk about but i think it's what we were just saying it's like if you're there and you're
00:13:15.560involved like you need you need to have your bandoliers on you need to be out there fighting
00:13:19.080because like this there's this 10 year revolution going on you can't just sit back yeah yeah yeah0.95
00:13:24.380so the women i mean not to get into like the role of women in mexico but like they were not
00:13:31.160in the army before this basically no no and i mean one could say that even after the revolution not
00:13:38.920a whole lot changed for a woman in mexico because i i think a lot of people know by now mexico is a
00:13:44.260very very anti-women society they are full of these uh machista machista men and um so like
00:13:52.920very sexist um how women belong in the kitchen and obviously like things have changed a little
00:13:58.400bit but i mean femicides uh are at an all-time high violence against women and children obviously
00:14:04.980because it extends to children like you know the patriarchy and all that so um i mean women were0.96
00:14:09.920fed up because during this time women they could not own i don't know land women basically had no0.97
00:14:15.940rights they had to be married to get i don't know even just a small money if if uh you know i mean0.99
00:14:21.960i guess it's like like a lot of places where if a woman wasn't married to a man and then the they
00:14:27.800had nothing because it was their fathers things like that like so it was not a it was not a good1.00
00:14:32.660time to be a woman um in mexico at all but yeah under porfiro diaz women were not considered0.91
00:14:38.200citizens they could not enter contracts owners sell property they couldn't be teachers lawyers1.00
00:14:42.800they couldn't they couldn't do anything except yeah be a wife and a mom and that's what is and
00:14:49.400i think in other revolutions too like you see just kind of when like marginalized people are rising
00:14:53.780up like it would be it'd be weird if the women didn't join them but just i wanted to point out
00:14:58.700like this is notable that the women did this but also the the sexism is part of why it's not widely
00:15:06.060known that women did do this like they were there and then after the fact it's like let's just like0.97
00:15:10.500pretend they were just these kind of silly sexy people yeah yeah and women like without the1.00
00:15:15.680revolution soldiers probably they wouldn't have fought there's actually a previous war somewhere0.91
00:15:22.440in i want to say spain and it's why people believe that the same thing would have happened in mexico
00:15:27.400if women had not been at the scene of the battle but men would fight and then just go back home
00:15:32.420to their wives like they they would not stay at the front lines because they I don't know they0.91
00:15:37.180can't do anything with that women it seems like so then they're like well the same thing's gonna1.00
00:15:41.820happen in Mexico so yeah women followed men into battle and they moved things they kept everything0.92
00:15:47.800going and then after the war like they received little to no recognition even women who held like0.99
00:15:54.520these very high positions in these armies didn't get their uh like you know benefits for having0.92
00:16:01.060fought in these revolutions they were forgotten and this like they were left out of a lot of
00:16:06.160textbooks i mean there's like you know places here and there but that will include them but like
00:16:10.760up till maybe three four like five years tops they started getting like these the recognition1.00
00:16:17.660they finally deserve like yeah women were part of the revolution and i've seen just like in
00:16:23.420because this was a topic that's been suggested to me by people before so i'm excited to finally be1.00
00:16:28.100able to talk about it with you but when I've looked them up it's like these badass women like0.99
00:16:32.380you see them they're wearing their they have the bandoliers on and they're just wearing like often1.00
00:16:36.240like someone's long skirts or sometimes like pants and they just look so badass like this0.63
00:16:41.600group of these women I'm just like oh man like if you saw them in a group you'd just be like oh god
00:16:45.960I'd be scared yeah absolutely so give us an example so I think one of the most famous or
00:16:52.100most well-known as well-known as any of them are it's Petra Herrera yeah yeah and again because a
00:16:59.260lot of these women were not known so I mean like even before we get to her most women they were0.99
00:17:05.040cooking cleaning and serving the men still in in the revolution um they walked all day because0.76
00:17:11.200horses were for men not for them um so yeah they were walking behind whenever like the the they
00:17:17.680had to wrap up and move to a different location. Many times women were sent ahead of troops to0.99
00:17:23.180collect wood, make fire, set up camp so it would be ready for the men when they arrived at like0.96
00:17:28.460their new location. They had to go seek food ahead of them in these villages. If it wasn't
00:17:34.740given to them, they stole it. Some generals, like General Álvaro Obregón, I feel like he was a
00:17:42.960federalist i could be wrong though i cannot remember um he used to send women ahead of his
00:17:47.600soldiers so they could act as shields for his men like it was it was a it was a rough time for
00:17:54.000women and most women that were solderas they were at the campsites sometimes against their own will
00:18:00.080like they were just taken by men um some women went and followed men their father brother or
00:18:06.100their like husband boyfriend um and some women very few women did intentionally like join to
00:18:12.160fight that number is not super high as compared to the women that were taken or just went because
00:18:17.860their whole family was going and they were raising like babies at these uh at these um i mean in war
00:18:24.920i guess yeah it's it was it's rough but petra herrera so there's not a lot of information on
00:18:31.620her early life it's very hard to find but she was one of the people that or one of the women that
00:18:37.600answered the call to arms. She joined the army to fight, not because she was following like anyone
00:18:43.420there. So she, I've read like conflicting accounts. Most of them say she joined Pancho Villa's army,
00:18:51.040though some books say that it was, I want to say like Carranza. Either way, the rebels, like she
00:18:55.820joined one of their armies, probably Pancho Villa. She hid her identity as a woman and she went by
00:19:02.220pedro herrera this was easier for her because she suffered from goiter so like her neck was a little
00:19:10.380more um swollen looking so like it could hide like a potential adam's apple right if you have
00:19:16.560a goiter um that's like this thing you get from thyroid like you know it's like a swelling in your
00:19:20.820neck for people that don't know and then she also had a unibrow like you know frida callow you like0.79
00:19:26.860she was very hairy yeah so it was not very hard and like you know she yeah pretended to be pedro
00:19:33.800herrera and um she blended in perfectly she was praised for her fighting skills her bravery
00:19:39.560her courage she was um i mean a skilled skilled soldier she knew i don't know like military
00:19:47.080strategy i don't i don't know anything about that um military operations like she was she was an
00:19:52.960excellent soldier. She rose up in the ranks as Pedro Herrera. And she rose up so high,0.52
00:19:59.640she thought she could reveal her true identity. Like, oh, I'm like, good. I'm respected by
00:20:06.740everyone. So she then revealed that she was not Pedro, but Petra. But it was not well received.
00:20:15.020Pancho Villa did not want women in his army. And so he kicked her out.
00:20:19.360so this is like the reverse mulan situation yeah yeah because when they found out she was a woman0.74
00:20:25.840everyone's like oh but you know what you're brave and you're great and that's fine yeah yeah and0.99
00:20:30.680they were not fine a lot of like well-known like leaders of this time yeah they didn't want women
00:20:36.620in their armies i think like two of them accepted women but even then they didn't like do anything
00:20:41.900to have them excel in their armies they were just like yeah you can be here most of them did not
00:20:46.520want anything to do with women in their armies.1.00
00:20:49.140Pancho Villan, he didn't want any women
00:21:16.000She kept on fighting. She gathered a group of 400 women. I mean, all these women, they wanted the same thing, to put an end to the dictatorship in Mexico, win the revolution. So it was 400. But then it kept growing, her army of women. It was 1,000. I've read sources that it was up to 2,000. So it was, I mean, a battalion of women.1.00
00:21:36.740I love that. I love that. He was like, no, you can't be in my army. She's like, OK, I'll just start my own woman army. And 2000 women are like, we're in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was, I mean, unheard of, really. Yeah. And they fought aside men in battle. They were in the front lines and they were very successful in the battlefield. For Petra, she did not allow any men in her brigade or battalion, whatever you want to call it.0.83
00:22:03.360so the opposite it's like no boys allowed yeah not at all and she would do guard duty herself
00:22:09.260like at night and if a man approached she fired on the spot like she didn't ask like
00:22:14.200what are you doing here or who goes there she just shot at who if a man was approaching but
00:22:20.280and part of it was like she knew how like i don't know i mean and not to be like all men but like
00:22:26.200some men are terrible and it's scary in this in this era and place and time it's like
00:22:31.700yeah, she's probably right. 99% of the time. Yeah. What are you doing here? Probably nothing good.
00:22:37.200Yeah. I don't blame her for just shooting on sight. Like I would have done the same.0.84
00:22:41.560And one of her battalion's most successful battles, it was during a battle in the city of
00:22:48.180Torreon, Coahuila. And this was an instrumental battle to the whole revolution. Like if that
00:22:54.780fight would have been lost, who knows what would have happened in the future? Like if it had to be
00:23:01.380And she was, her whole army was part of that. This took place on May 30th, 1914. And together with Pancho Villa's forces, like the very man that kicked her out of his army, they took the city. It was because of Petra Herrera, though.
00:23:17.200she had this plan to somehow turn off like all the lights in the city where like no one could see
00:23:23.100and that's why they won and there's one of his own commanders Pancho Villa's commanders who was
00:23:29.840quoted uh saying like she was the one who took Torrion it was her and um she turned out the
00:23:36.260lights and we were able to enter the city but like even though like his men were on record
00:23:41.560admitting she was the reason they won. Pancho Villa obviously denied her their involvement,
00:23:48.000all the women's involvement. He was like, no, it was us. Like after this battle, because it was so
00:23:52.680successful, Petra asked to be reinstated into the military, but her request was denied because she
00:23:59.260was a woman. So she was promoted to colonel, but then her unit of soldaderas was disbanded.
00:24:04.960and after this she joined venustancio carranza and she became a spy oh my god first of all spies
00:24:13.240are awesome but secondly so this guy like he let women be in his retaliate so okay good for him
00:24:19.040yeah yeah he was one of the ones that did allow it and i mean zapata he was another one that
00:24:23.140allowed it but pancho via he he pancho via no no he was yeah i came into this not knowing anything
00:24:29.240about him and i'm just like he's my enemy now don't like him yeah yeah he was like the typical0.96
00:24:34.140a Mexican man, like womanizer, didn't respect women. But yeah, back to Petra. So she went0.99
00:24:41.780undercover, infiltrating the Federalist like locations. And so she was a bartender in Jimenez,
00:24:48.740Chihuahua. Some people say Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua, somewhere in Chihuahua. That's where she was.
00:24:53.920Sadly, during one of these, like during her time as a spy, she was shot by three drunk men
00:24:59.960and then died due to the infections from the wounds.
00:25:04.720That's the double-sided thing of being a bartender
00:25:07.340in the middle of a revolution, I guess.
00:25:09.540Because on the one side, I'm sure she gets,
00:25:11.600like bartender is a perfect when you said that.
00:26:18.680TD Easy Trade taps into that instinct so you can build something real for the future with no minimums, no monthly fees and 100 free trades.
00:26:28.140You already got this because you are made to trade and TD Easy Trade is made to help.
00:26:40.780Kingdoms were reduced to cinders and armies scattered like bones in the dust.
00:26:45.760Now the survivors claw to what's left of a broken world, praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.
00:26:53.680But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins.
00:26:57.960This is old school adventuring at its most cruel.
00:27:01.440Your torch ticks down in real time, and when that flame dies, something else rises to finish the job.
00:27:07.360This is a brutal rules light nightmare with a story that emerges organically based on the decisions that the characters make.
00:27:14.860This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s, and man, it is so good to be back.
00:27:19.680Join the Glass Cannon podcast as we plunge into the shadow dark every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern on youtube.com slash the glass cannon with the podcast version dropping the next day.
00:27:30.360See what everybody's talking about and join us in the dark.
00:27:37.760Welcome to the realms of peril and glory.
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00:36:28.080Yeah, yeah. Another notable woman, Carmen Vélez. And she was known as la generala, which is like0.96
00:36:36.860the general, but because words are gendered, you can just add an A at the end.1.00
00:36:41.300the female general yeah yeah yeah and she commanded 300 men in battle and they fought in1.00
00:36:48.740hidalgo tlaxcala that's all i know about her like some of these women only have like one sentence0.96
00:36:54.920or two about them but like the fact that she like everything you've said about you know with
00:36:59.040both of the petras where it's like you can't you know boys only like no girls allowed the fact that
00:37:04.740this person la generale like she was leading men like men would follow her that feels notable0.99
00:37:10.080that they were like we're not gonna listen to a woman general they're just like oh no you0.61
00:37:13.740are in charge yeah like she she didn't have an army of women it was men who followed her and
00:37:18.860her identity was known like it wasn't known she was a woman you know it's funny because for the
00:37:23.560longest time i served in the army for like four years i was a medic and my aunt my tia would call
00:37:28.600me general and i had i'm like i feel like that's what she was referring to but i didn't know
00:37:34.160until i did this research and i was like oh my god that's what my aunt would say all the time
00:37:38.900that's interesting that's interesting because maybe if there's like if there is in sort of
00:37:44.220like the oral history or the cultural history where it's like it's not widely known but people
00:37:48.780still know that these women did that you know and just like the name yeah like a little bit about
00:37:55.260them yeah yeah um and carmen of course wasn't the only carmen because it was a very uh popular name
00:38:01.900at the time. Petra and Carmen, that's the name. Yeah, and such a great name. So Carmen Cerdán,
00:38:09.640she was known for her ability to procure supplies for the troops. She was the daughter of a lawyer0.97
00:38:15.620and her family, they were part of the Maderistas. So I never remember if he's Francisco or Fernando,
00:38:22.640Madera. His last name is Madera. That's like the important part. Another part of like the rebels.
00:38:27.340So they were known as maderistas. And for this reason, her home was attacked and the family was taken into custody by the federal army.
00:38:37.460She was wounded, but she survived. And this like really just threw her into working for the rebels even more.
00:38:46.340She's like, I'm going to work even harder now.
00:38:47.840she was disguised as marco serrato and she used this code language that she developed
00:38:55.740with newspapers like in texas to coordinate supply runs for the revolutionaries so she put like i
00:39:03.600don't know if you have examples but she just put like i don't know you know it's like the crow
00:39:07.680calls at midnight or whatever in the newspaper and somebody would know like oh that means send like
00:39:12.400to cases of bullets or whatever yeah something like that i could not find like like what she0.74
00:39:17.900actually like wrote or did but she used newspapers to do this and like nobody would have supplies of
00:39:25.080it was not for her like i wonder if it's like you know like miss connections or something like that
00:39:30.100or if she put in an ad that'd be cool i don't know i don't know like that's great you know i love i
00:39:37.160love a code I love a spy yeah and just I mean such important work that just like nobody thinks about
00:39:43.080it they think of these men like you know in the front lines like shooting each other but you need
00:39:48.240supplies no you need medics you need supplies like these are it's like the invisible labor
00:39:53.200that makes it all possible like they couldn't everyone is contributing you know yeah and like
00:39:58.000on the note of invisible labor on top of um the women that were in the front lines the women that
00:40:03.420were not the ones that are even less talked about i mean they were cleaning up the camp they were
00:40:08.360cooking for the men they were making sure that the men could keep fighting there was american
00:40:13.160journalists were on like the side of texas taking pictures of uh women on top of trains like making0.99
00:40:20.380tortillas for the men like and they were just like how are they doing this like the train is moving0.97
00:40:27.320they're making tortillas uh for the men like yeah even the women less talked about but that's the
00:40:33.080whole reason that the the revolutionaries won this war and like no one gives them credit until like
00:40:40.400you know very recently they're like starting to get talked about but yeah even the women not in
00:40:44.820the front lines the names that we know they kept things moving like did the laundry the cooking
00:40:49.820they took care of the kids like everything everything yeah no absolutely yeah yeah that
00:40:55.520that invisible labor is so important too and so not recognized but i mean i think it's similar
00:41:01.200to like so many other like quote unquote great men in history it's like yeah but how much could
00:41:05.660he have done if there wasn't you know servants and a wife and people at home like making dinner
00:41:10.620and getting his clothes like yeah those people had never given any credit so i love the podcast
00:41:16.040called significant others have you listened to it no yeah it's they're talking about um the
00:41:22.080significant others of these like men who are less talked about so it's a fun listen if anyone wants
00:41:26.760to check it out oh that sounds good and then let's see another soldadera that we know a little
00:41:31.120bit about. Her name was Angela Jimenez. She was the daughter of a Zapotec woman, so an indigenous0.99
00:41:37.340woman and a Spanish man. In 1911, the Federal Army soldiers from the Federal Army invaded her home
00:41:44.020and again, trigger warning, attempted to rape her sister. Her sister killed the soldier who
00:41:50.880tried to do this, but then she later died by suicide because she couldn't bear what happened0.56
00:41:56.520to her um so then angela jimenez swore to seek revenge and she joined the revolutionary forces
00:42:04.800um she fought alongside her father under the name angel jimenez and she was an expert in explosives
00:42:12.660she reached the rank of lieutenant and at this time uh she was a known woman like she was fighting
00:42:19.760as a woman she wasn't hiding her identity anymore i was thinking like if she's there her father
00:42:24.380would have to be like covering for her identity too. In on it. Yeah. Yeah. But then she was
00:42:30.000wounded during some battle. She left the army, moved to Texas, then to California. And then in
00:42:35.780California, she organized or she created the organization called Veterans of the Revolution.
00:42:41.460And then she became an activist for the Chicano movement. She wasn't done fighting.
00:42:47.480And that's just like, cause we're talking about, you know, what is it? 1910 till 1920 or so this
00:42:52.500revolution it's like yeah we're in the 20th century there's so many cultural movements
00:42:56.720yeah and if someone yeah if someone was 13 14 during this yeah and they can move move to
00:43:02.360california and become involved in movements in the 1960s yeah and it's so weird to think about
00:43:08.880well i know exactly because this feels like so oldie timey but it's like no no like this is the
00:43:14.64020th century yeah yeah it's it's mind-boggling really and then there's another woman that we
00:43:22.180do know a little bit more about, sometimes the stories are like a little contested, but this is
00:43:26.400how like the well-known story goes. Her name was Elisa Greenson Zambrano. She was from Parral,
00:43:33.900Chihuahua. And already at 12 years old, she was a strong believer in Villa, Pancho Villa. And she
00:43:40.780had a strong opposition to the federal army and American forces in Mexico, because in Chihuahua,
00:43:46.620They were allowed to be there for various reasons, including trying to help the federal army capture Pancho Villa.
00:43:53.860Because I think if there's one thing that a lot of people know about the Mexican Revolution is that the rebels were like considered Mexican bandits.
00:44:01.000And there was wanted signs with their pictures like all over Texas and, you know, the border cities.
00:44:06.300So you could see these wanted signs. So the American soldiers were there trying to capture Pancho Villa.
00:44:11.680There was a lot of like asking the governor of Parral, Chihuahua to get rid of these American
00:44:17.320soldiers like nobody wanted them there, but nobody could do anything about it. And then like little
00:44:22.340young Elisa grabbed a Mexican flag from a nearby school and she shouted and I'll just say the
00:44:29.540English version of it, but she shouted, I have sought help and they have not supported me.
00:44:34.480However, someone has to do something. Then she gathered a group of women and children and they
00:44:41.120you know were throwing rocks they had sticks as weapons to fight the american troops that were
00:44:48.180there and they they left the american troops left um and as the troops fled everyone was chanting
00:44:57.340like viva mexico viva villa that's amazing and it's just yet another example like every story
00:45:04.040you've told so far it's just like the the government or the americans like did something
00:45:08.300shitty to people and they're like okay well now i'm going to join the revolution like everyone
00:45:12.340it's just getting more people to join the shittier they're being yeah no but i love that i love this
00:45:18.240like children throwing rocks to the point that the army is like okay we'll leave then that's great
00:45:22.760yeah yeah they fled back to texas but like sadly yeah there's not much else known about them i mean
00:45:31.060i think that's all i could find on like the known names of of women who participated during this
00:45:38.120time there's one more person who's also super cool to talk about that's like very very un like
00:45:43.580not known not considered a soldadera because he was a trans man yeah his name was amelio robles
00:45:52.120avila and yeah he fought the whole time as amelio and unlike you know other women who joined and
00:45:59.180then assume their woman a role identity as a woman after the war or during um he yeah he was
00:46:07.140like no i'm amelio that's who i am and like nobody you know lived in this manner at this time at all
00:46:14.520and like sure that the term trans like didn't exist at the time but i mean that's really that's
00:46:19.060what he was um if anyone misgendered him he like shot them like it was a he was intense uh yeah
00:46:27.320another and he also fought i think with zapata is who who he mainly whose army he was in but yeah
00:46:33.640like not not much is known about women even less about you know queer people fighting in in the
00:46:39.700revolution but they were there of course they were there well i feel like everyone it seems like
00:46:44.300everyone who was left was on one side or the other but also i think um just this is the sort of
00:46:49.540situation and you still see it today it's like the most marginalized people like the most like
00:46:55.220people in poverty who often have like different identities you know indigenous and queer and
00:46:59.800whatever like that's who is that's who's going to band together against the elite and that's kind of
00:47:05.060always been the way yeah and there's this super i didn't write down the quote but i think it's
00:47:10.640which one of my books one of them has this super good quote that's basically like if women weren't
00:47:17.780there no none of these men would have been fighting but it's true i can't remember which
00:47:22.860one one of the two that i have one of them says it yeah no and let me know the names of all the
00:47:29.440books so i can put those in the show notes so people who want to read more can read oh i will
00:47:33.140i will and these are like the only two books i could find on las soldaderas and on top of that
00:47:39.080one of them one of them is older it's called las soldaderas it has like a green or not green a red
00:47:43.900cover that one has the most information but then whatever other information you find online comes
00:47:49.580from that book yeah yeah yeah and and then the other book i bought is the one that i read about
00:47:55.620petra ruiz in but then that book it has a lot of the same information from the red book like
00:48:00.140yeah they're like the only two books in existence yeah no like there's research i've done as well
00:48:07.440where i'm like oh a new thing about this person i'm like nope like word for word that's from this
00:48:11.140other book it's like okay there is just one book got it yeah yeah um but yeah it's it's like i
00:48:16.880don't know sad and to me and tragic that it took so long for them to even just be recognized that
00:48:24.460yeah there was women there they were instrumental to the efforts of the war I mean it was I want to
00:48:32.180say on the 100th anniversary of the revolution that they were even mentioned it might have been
00:48:37.780even after that I think I read that somewhere though of course it's not in my notes but
00:48:42.260I want to say yeah it was probably definitely over a hundred years after the war that they
00:48:47.900finally were recognized a little bit which is too bad because like they're all dead but yeah
00:48:52.920well after they all had died it's like oh actually they were great like sorry they weren't around to
00:48:58.420like get a pension or whatever while they were alive right right and it's just yeah such a common
00:49:04.260story so you know usually I have to explain this but you know better than anyone else the
00:49:10.280scandalousness scale. Yes. And so I think we're going to score them as a group because they have
00:49:15.760lots of things in common with each other. And so the first category is scandalousness. How
00:49:20.380scandalous were they? And I'm just going to say at first, like, I feel like at first it's like,
00:49:24.600oh yeah, Pedro, he's this great soldier. And as soon as it's like, it's a woman, it's like,0.97
00:49:28.860what? No, no. There's some scandal there for sure. Being a spy is scandalous. I don't know.0.99
00:49:36.880where would you rank them zero to ten as a group i would give them 10 out of 10 even even the woman
00:49:42.780that you don't know anything about to say i'm leaving and joining the war it was the most
00:49:48.480scandalous thing you could do like what do you mean you're not staying here and being serving
00:49:54.100the house like what do you mean you're leaving like it was a shock to most families unless they
00:49:58.240were the ones that were joining together which was also very rare but yeah it was a super scandalous
00:50:02.920seems to just leave your your home like i'm gonna go fight well and exactly like the one who's like
00:50:08.560the 13 year old who's like oh i'm just gonna like go and be a war medic now like to her wealthy
00:50:13.300family they're like what just happened yeah like what do you mean you're gonna go and i think it
00:50:18.160also speaks to how scandalous it was the fact that they were kind of intentionally forgotten
00:50:23.260about afterwards to be like let's just pretend like that never happened we don't want it was
00:50:27.700deliberate like let's not talk about them actually yeah yeah so just to use their labor and then not
00:50:34.200afterwards scheminess i'm so biased because i want to say like 10 again you feel like the same
00:50:40.840i feel like the same like going off to be the bartender spy or you've just a scheminess to be
00:50:45.000like okay i'm gonna join the army women can't do it i'll just call myself pedro yeah and like have
00:50:51.240to hide their identity and then like plan around like you know what i'm gonna reveal myself now
00:50:56.000but I'm also going to quit before I'm fired like it's yeah so much but also just scheming like the
00:51:03.100the one who was leading the army like you need to have plans you need to like know how to you
00:51:07.860need to have schemes to tell your army what to do yeah yeah strategies yeah yeah be a sniper
00:51:14.280learn about explosive I think 10 is absolutely fair for that as well but then we get to significance
00:51:19.860and this is where it's like to you like yeah to me they're significant but the way they were so
00:51:26.260easily forgotten yeah and even like obviously they the war would not have been won without them
00:51:32.440but then they were left out so like yeah their role was significant but it was also like hidden
00:51:37.860so it's i don't know six maybe just yeah i was thinking like five six like if it bounces out
00:51:44.700like they were significant but it was so like stealth and there's not like no one knew yeah
00:51:49.600yeah and there's not statues there's not like yeah exactly like i've heard of you know poncho
00:51:56.920via like i've heard of some of the men's names but none of these women so like they just it's
00:52:02.180not their fault that they were forgotten but they were so yeah yeah i think a six is fair
00:52:06.840to sort of balance out like they were significant but they were kind of forgotten about on purpose
00:52:12.980yeah yeah and then we get to the sexism bonus how much did sexism hold them back some of them
00:52:19.300more than others but yeah some of them more than others so probably and then i mean the ones that
00:52:24.840would have been held back if they hadn't been pretending to be men like well that's because
00:52:29.840complicated because it's like yeah pretending to be a man so then sexism didn't hold them back but
00:52:35.260as soon as they're like guess what i'm a woman then it suddenly does it's yeah i'm like i maybe
00:52:39.820seven five i don't know because yeah for some of them even in the camps they were forced to
00:52:47.720continue their role as like the traditional role for a woman cooking cleaning but some of them also
00:52:53.720were not doing that some of them were in the front lines but only because they were pretending to be
00:52:57.100men but not all of them because some of them were fighting as women so and the i know exactly exactly
00:53:02.780so it's like ping-ponging back and forth it's like so they were but then they weren't but it's
00:53:06.560like they were but that like ultimately yeah i think it's another one that sort of balances out
00:53:11.700between the two let's say a six maybe six okay okay and just a sec let me add this up it's
00:53:17.720going to be a very good score which is deserved and i love to give a good score to like a group
00:53:22.560of women who are historically not very well known so ultimately they get a 32 anything over a 30 i'm
00:53:30.920always happy about love it physically because that's like that's in the upper echelon i don't
00:53:36.620we don't really have haven't done a lot of like women disguised as men there are some coming up
00:53:41.740in the new season but yeah 32 who's there like lots of legends are in this level like nefertiti
00:53:47.440has 31.5 the queen of sheba has 31 la kinsrala she's at 31 i love her oh my god had you heard
00:53:54.740that story before no i was dying while i was editing that i was like oh this is amazing i
00:54:00.460was like i know i'm just like oh christine's gonna like this one yeah no it was so interesting that
00:54:05.080one but um yeah and that's where like I'm so excited to learn more about yeah like Latin
00:54:10.000American history because there's so many stories like that and there's often that element where I
00:54:14.380was like oh Christine's gonna like this is because of the like the way that the stories blend like
00:54:19.700that one did with like horror and like ghost stories but with real people yeah yeah that was
00:54:25.960so interesting so interesting that stuff yeah just like blends together a lot especially in
00:54:31.180latin american history i find very bloody mary like yes yeah yeah but the soldaderas there's not
00:54:38.620because this story like they this happened and then it's like let's forget that ever happened
00:54:42.800it's too bad there's not any like famous ghosts ghost soldaderas oh my god i feel like i forgot
00:54:48.020someone because there is one soldadera who was so good people thought she was a witch like they
00:54:54.020thought she had supernatural powers um i must have missed like somewhere in my nose where is she let1.00
00:55:02.760me control f supernatural oh there she was that her name was maria quinteras de mares yeah and0.91
00:55:09.860she was a colonel in pancho villa's army and the only reason she could have a role as a colonel
00:55:17.020as a woman is because she was married to one of his higher-up captains um so it was like one of1.00
00:55:22.220the exceptions he made to women being in his armies this is like a favor to his like uh-huh
00:55:29.040yeah and their daughter went with them obviously wherever they went but um she led her uh troop
00:55:36.780through many victories and yeah she was so good they thought the opposing forces thought she had
00:55:41.940supernatural powers i thank you yeah when you said supernatural i was like no i forgot someone
00:55:48.540like I know I did that's what I get for not taking my ADHD meds and like pass over things that
00:55:53.720I was like oh I was supposed to read that I like that supernatural connection because right away
00:55:58.500that makes me feel like well there we go like let's make a telenovela let's do something about
00:56:02.380like a witch a witch who is also a soldadera like that's a great story I would love that oh man yeah
00:56:08.800like just blending the two things together like tv producers out there listening get on it someone
00:56:13.160someone do it that'd be so good christina tell everybody where they can follow you and remind
00:56:21.000everybody about all your podcasts too yeah um so as spooky tells we talk about haunted places myths
00:56:27.460legends people's paranormal experiences listeners stories it's a lot of fun sometimes true crime
00:56:33.200my co-hosted with my twin and my friend um and i mean like we laugh a little but it's also scary
00:56:39.080So if if that's not your thing, don't listen. But if it is, you'll love it. And then my other one is Historias Unknown. I co-host that with my twin, Carmen. And yeah, we talk about stories that are like not known in Latin American history or Latino Latina history in the U.S.
00:56:56.820So like these huge protest school walkouts, like, you know, Uvalde, the school in Texas, there was a huge one of the longest protests for a school, like a school walkout happened in that little elementary school. And like no one knows because it's been overshadowed by the tragedy that happened at that school.
00:57:14.400so things like that we cover um right now we did like a five episode series on chile like the you
00:57:21.540know pinochet regime and all that and so yeah and then i actually have a new podcast coming out
00:57:26.740may 5th it's just like a short daily episodes that are like super short five ten minutes
00:57:31.780where i just talk about uh like my google searches so like what's the why are nachos
00:57:36.460called nachos or what are we really celebrating on cinco de mayo yeah things like that so that
00:57:41.300one's called a little bit de todo and it's like it's gonna be out then but not right now so yeah
00:57:45.620when people hear this it will no it will be coming out soon when people hear this yes yes yes
00:57:50.060but yeah and so and tell everybody your your social media and everything so they can follow
00:57:54.860you too oh yeah yeah um i guess the best one would be just at spooky tales everywhere so tiktok
00:58:00.480instagram yeah i got um one of your spooky tales t-shirts i just want to mention the like tie-dye
00:58:07.580one oh that's my favorite one it's so cute yeah she has really good merch too just so everybody
00:58:12.940knows thank you thank you i was wearing it to work and someone was like what's that i'm like
00:58:16.800well it's this podcast i listen to it's eye-catching and christina also thank you so
00:58:24.340much for being the editor of this show you um are an invaluable oh my gosh when i used to edit this
00:58:31.240like i'm always i live my life on the cusp of burnout constantly but when i was when i was
00:58:36.820editing my own podcast like that's the closest I've ever come to like veering over that cusp
00:58:42.120yeah no I'm glad it's so fun it's so fun to edit um the podcast so good and you're learning I feel
00:58:48.300like against your will about so many things you might not have known about not against my will
00:58:52.820okay even if I wasn't editing I would be listening for sure okay good good good yeah because I just
00:58:57.840feel like I know I have some of my friends who listen to every episode I know a lot of people
00:59:01.680pop in and out, but I'm like, you've heard everything you've heard. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm
00:59:08.000so, and I've wanted to have you on forever and I'm sure I'll have you on again. So thank you so
00:59:11.900much for doing this. Yes. Thank you. So I do want to let you know that there is a new season of
00:59:22.680Vulgar History that's going to be kicking off on May 15th. And I can't tell you the theme yet,
00:59:29.180although some of you have been guessing and some of you have been guessing correctly.
00:59:33.180I will let you know that because I alluded to it a bit in this episode, which is why I wanted to say
00:59:37.020there's going to be a lot of revolutions going on. We're looking at stuff that happened in
00:59:41.060the 1700s, which was an era of a revolution. In fact, astrologically speaking, the last time
00:59:50.340Pluto was in Aquarius was the 18th century. It kicked off. This was when so many things were
00:59:57.860happening the american revolution the haitian revolution the french revolution like that was
01:00:02.440that's when all that happened and in 2024 pluto is back in aquarius and i'm not going to lie that
01:00:08.320that's not one of the reasons why i'm tackling this topic for the upcoming season seven which
01:00:14.120is going to start may 15th and i will be able to announce the topic for you soon so stay tuned i
01:00:21.920have explained to you it's going to be a combination of like the mary queen of scots or lady jane
01:00:25.920gray season mixed with the international season. We're going to be looking at the story of one
01:00:30.240person, but through the context of what was happening all around the world at the same time.
01:00:35.280So episodes like this one, although it takes place later, the spirit of revolution of the
01:00:40.340soldaderas, I think is just such a vibe of a lot of what we'll be talking about in season seven
01:00:44.500coming soon in your ears on this podcast. And until then, well, I mean, all the time. Anyway,
01:00:52.780you can keep up with me in this podcast. We are on Instagram at vulgar history pod. If you want
01:00:58.200to get in touch with me, there's a form you can use at vulgar history.com, or you can also send
01:01:03.080me a message on Instagram. I do want to say, I read your messages. I'm not able to respond to
01:01:08.860everybody's messages, but please know I see them and I appreciate them. Some of those people send
01:01:14.280me messages asking about like, I want to like people who, and I love this, who want to start
01:01:18.380a podcast and they want to ask me for advice or information. And I want to say to those people,
01:01:24.880because I'm not able to respond to everybody. But I mean, honestly, like I just started doing
01:01:28.720a podcast. I just like got a microphone and then I got a thing that goes over the microphone. So
01:01:34.240your voice sounds better. And I just started doing it. And that's, you know, in the spirit
01:01:37.740of the soldaderas or any of the tits of people who've ever talked about on this podcast, like
01:01:43.340just do it, like just start a podcast. And if you start a podcast or if you have started a podcast,
01:01:47.060let me know. And so I can like let everybody else know about it. Or I think it's just a matter of
01:01:52.140doing it. Frankly, I, I have, I mean, I think Christina would say the same thing. She's always
01:01:57.760starting new podcasts actually. So just kind of do it. And then, you know, once you're doing it
01:02:01.500long enough and you're making friends with other podcasters, including me, then just if your show
01:02:07.040is good, it'll find an audience is my only advice anyway. But yeah, that's how you can get in touch
01:02:12.020with me if you're in touch with me um if i get some merchandise for this podcast it's available
01:02:17.080at vulgarhistory.com slash store or if you're outside the u.s i recommend using the red bubble
01:02:21.420shop vulgarhistory.redbubble.com vulgarhistory.com slash store takes you to our teepublic store and
01:02:26.720that's great if you're in the u.s which a lot of you are and a lot of you are not so red bubble
01:02:32.880if you're outside the u.s vulgarhistory.com slash store if you're inside the u.s i just want to
01:02:37.940shout out as ever our brand partner common era which is a small business it's and when i say
01:02:45.040small business i feel like there's two people involved in this business both of whom are women
01:02:49.540um and what they do is they make beautiful jewelry inspired by women from from history and also from
01:02:55.400mythology and the pieces they make gold pieces and they also make gold for may pieces they're
01:03:00.920beautiful i have the hatch episode one because i was so inspired by that episode i had to buy it
01:03:05.980They also did Anne Boleyn and also I have a Medusa one.
01:03:09.940So I don't know, I'm starting my own collection of them basically, but it's beautiful, beautiful
01:03:14.460jewelry all done like ethically by a small business owned by women.
01:03:19.000And the people who are on the pieces are all people who you vibe with because there are
01:03:22.660a lot of people I've talked about on the podcast, like Boudicca, Cleopatra, Agrippina, and Anne