Vulgar History - Women Trapped in Towers, part two： The Oldest Woman Executed for Treason

00:00:00.000 hello and welcome to vulgar history a feminist women's history comedy podcast hosted by me 1.00

00:00:22.200 and foster this is the second episode of season four and the season's theme is women trapped in 0.86

00:00:28.980 towers and the assholes who sent them there and this week is our second margaret last week we did

00:00:36.240 margaret of anjou and today we're going to be talking about a woman named margaret pole who 0.98

00:00:42.300 if you watched the spanish princess on stars which was on last year i think the one that was about

00:00:49.120 catherine of aragon but based on the philippa gregory book so just like as per usual and i

00:00:56.560 love this about philippa gregory and these adaptations just any possible rumor of any

00:01:02.280 scandalousness they just treat as total fact and include it and it makes her very exciting

00:01:06.720 television show anyway margaret pole was a character on that and there because they're

00:01:11.720 dealing with the same thing i'm dealing with in this show which is like everyone in tutor era had

00:01:15.520 the same name or like one of five names so they called her maggie on the show maggie pole she's

00:01:22.900 played by laura carmichael lady edith from downton abbey anyway that show came out and i was just

00:01:27.500 like who is margaret pole anyway and so i did a little bit of a deep dive learned a lot of

00:01:33.980 interesting stuff about her and wouldn't you know she spends some time in a tower and she's sent

00:01:38.240 there by one of history's greatest assholes but we'll get to that later on in in this episode so

00:01:46.440 we're going to dive into margaret pole but as per every episode of this and as per the way that i

00:01:52.340 really try hard to think about when i'm reading these stories like someone someone living today

00:01:57.920 or someone living five years ago or someone living 500 years ago they may maybe their life

00:02:03.760 ended in some sort of horrible tragic way with a murder or an execution or whatever or like a slow

00:02:10.580 awful illness or whatever but that doesn't retroactively mean their whole life was sad

00:02:15.620 or that it does it shouldn't i'm trying to not be sad just because you know a story is going to end

00:02:21.020 badly that doesn't mean you have to like look back on the previous parts of their life it's

00:02:24.620 like here's the like childhood of a person who 60 years later something sad would happen to

00:02:29.200 i hate describing a person's life as sad i mean i'm sure that there's people whose whole lives

00:02:36.660 are sad and that's awful but margaret pole is somebody whose life ended sadly but there's a

00:02:42.920 lot of cool stuff that happened before that and that's just as interesting as what happened to

00:02:48.980 her so who is this person well first i'll tell you the sources i consulted for this to make this

00:02:58.260 episode so wikipedia of course an essay called the beheading of margaret pole by kira cornelius

00:03:06.200 kramer who has her own website and then an article on tutor society.com called the downfall of

00:03:12.160 margaret pole countess of salisbury and then also there's not lots of biographies about her but one

00:03:18.840 the one that i found is called margaret pole count as a salisbury loyalty lineage and leadership

00:03:25.460 by hazel pierce so margaret who is she okay we're gonna get like really into the family tree

00:03:33.500 because she exists at the intersection of like every part of the war of the roses tudor era

00:03:42.540 family tree and that's part of why her life turned out like it did so margaret pole she was born just

00:03:51.600 a little baby called margaret at farley hungerford castle in somerset the only surviving daughter of

00:03:59.120 her parents and her parents her father was called george plantagenet the first duke of clarence

00:04:04.760 and her mother was his wife isabel neville now who were these two people well isabel neville for

00:04:13.040 instance was the older daughter of richard neville aka warwick warwick from last week's episode who

00:04:20.940 may remember as the guy who was the advisor to king hot edward and then he switched teams and

00:04:27.840 then he teamed up with margaret of anjou warwick so that's margaret's grandfather work her mother

00:04:35.120 is isabel neville her father george was the middle of three sons um or maybe more than three sons but

00:04:44.440 only three are the ones that kind of matter so the oldest so her uncle was in fact hot edward

00:04:51.580 so edward who would become edward the fourth was the oldest of these three brothers george was the

00:04:57.240 middle of these brothers and then they had a little baby younger brother who also called Richard who

00:05:01.220 later would become king Richard III who's the like famous maybe evil king so those are her three

00:05:09.560 that's her dad and her dad's two brothers so she's the daughter of the middle of these plantagenets

00:05:14.480 brothers so when Margaret was three years old her mother Isabel died as a result of giving birth

00:05:23.920 to a younger sibling so at this point her father george who is already the sort of person who is

00:05:31.140 paranoid and prone to suspicion which is a reasonable way to live if you are living in

00:05:36.260 this era and time and you were one of the plantagenet brothers anyway he decided that

00:05:41.900 actually his wife isabel had been poisoned to death by her servants like even though dying

00:05:46.220 in childbirth was super common at that point um he's like no she was poisoned and so he

00:05:53.660 accused two of the servants including a welsh woman whose name was anchoret twin niho which

00:06:00.720 is a really great name um so he charged them with poisoning isabel to death they were both found

00:06:08.100 guilty and executed immediately because servants didn't have a lot of defense for them when someone

00:06:13.440 this powerful is accusing them of this but like not too long after this george's brother hot edward

00:06:20.360 had both servants posthumously pardoned so like basically saying like yes you've been executed

00:06:26.180 but like my bad you shouldn't have been too bad you're dead now oh well this made George even more

00:06:32.040 mad at his brother the king which resulted in a lot of scheming and finally with Edward having

00:06:38.340 George executed as a traitor because George was basically being traitor-esque so toddler Margaret

00:06:45.320 now a little baby orphan and her brother who was also called edward were sent to be raised by their

00:06:52.040 uncle richard later to be richard the third the king who's maybe evil and his wife and neville

00:06:58.720 who was also who's the other daughter of warwick so it's like very close connection there where

00:07:05.040 it's like to her parents siblings married wait her father's sibling married his mother's sibling

00:07:14.760 so like it's like a double aunt and uncle so like real close um so she's a little baby and

00:07:20.720 whatever so she wouldn't have known exactly what was going on but i'll let you know because it

00:07:25.700 matters a lot so basically when george was declared a traitor all of his land and property

00:07:30.300 were seized from him and returned to the king because traitors don't get to be in charge of

00:07:34.820 land or property or have money but margaret's grandfather warwick isabel's father who died

00:07:46.120 not a traitor although he was like fighting on the other side but it's kind of like who's on

00:07:51.440 what side he wasn't he got to keep all of his land and money when he died and he left behind

00:07:55.480 inheritance so the warwick slash neville inheritance so this neville money was divided

00:08:00.660 up between i don't i don't know i'm not a super expert on wills but what i wrote here and maybe

00:08:07.540 i'm right or maybe i wrote this down wrong is the money was divided between warwick's two daughters

00:08:12.960 isabel and ann but isabel was of course dead so ann had not had any children yet though so

00:08:19.100 basically the heir to the neville inheritance was at this time margaret's younger brother edward

00:08:23.900 because it had to go to a boy effectively so there's all this so their father all of his

00:08:30.740 stuff is taken away but through their mother margaret and her brother edward have some

00:08:35.480 inheritance potentially as long as richard and ann don't have any children um so basically at

00:08:42.080 this point edward was the sole heir to the neville fortune because he's the only boy

00:08:46.260 um this whole inheritance scenario remained unchallenged or unchanged because five years

00:08:54.340 later hot edward died of pneumonia i think um unexpectedly young and then at which point her

00:09:02.400 uncle richard became richard iii as the new king making her auntie anne the queen um but richard

00:09:10.640 and had not had any children so margaret and edward were now kind of heirs to the throne

00:09:15.900 because their uncle was the king um but kind of also not really because of george's treason made

00:09:21.580 them be maybe not heirs but they were like enough heirs to the throne that richard was kind of

00:09:25.880 nervous about keeping them around and he was a person known to be nervous about keeping around

00:09:30.820 children who might have a better claim to the throne than him e.g hot edward's children who

00:09:37.140 were the princess in the tower who there's the whole thing about who killed them where did they

00:09:43.600 go etc there's 10 000 books and podcasts and blog posts about that that you can read about

00:09:48.740 but i just mentioned that because maybe you've heard of it but margot and edward lucked out in

00:09:54.520 the sense of they weren't murdered um they were just kind of like sent away so they were shipped

00:09:58.340 off to a separate household and then richard iii died in battle um and the new king who took over

00:10:06.780 was henry tudor aka henry the seventh but margaret poole who's not actually called margaret

00:10:15.760 poole yet but that's just how she's known she's gonna get married and become margaret poole but

00:10:18.920 she's anyway margaret our heroine today was still related to the royals because everyone's related

00:10:23.980 to everybody because henry the seventh the new king his wife was margaret's cousin elizabeth of

00:10:32.060 York so the new royal couple hot Edward oh no sorry hot Edward is dead now it is Henry VII and

00:10:39.160 Elizabeth of York so they became Margaret and her brother's new guardians because they're just like

00:10:44.580 little orphans and everyone keeps killing her guardians so Margaret and Edward moved back to

00:10:49.160 the royal court and pretty soon after that the new king Henry VII arranged a marriage for his

00:10:54.520 14 year old niece so Margaret like so much has happened vis-a-vis who has custody of her and

00:10:59.820 what is her life and what is her inheritance she's just 14 um so honey arranged a marriage

00:11:05.520 between her and his henry's 30 year old cousin sir richard pole and this marriage so margaret

00:11:16.160 was a york in terms of the cousins war scenario i mean technically she's a plantagenet which is

00:11:25.220 kind of like both york and lancaster but whatever she was on that side because her father was warwick

00:11:31.980 i guess anyway this was sort of like a dynastical match margaret was a york um richard pole was a

00:11:38.820 lancaster and this was kind of like really cementing the fact that like there's no more

00:11:44.000 cousins war the yorks and lancasters are all married to each other now don't worry about it

00:11:47.820 and as far as i can tell the marriage between margaret and richard was okay as good as anything

00:11:56.600 could be like when it's a bad marriage like people write about it and i would tell you if i'd come

00:12:00.680 across anything that said that but this seems like as fine as things can be when a 14 year old

00:12:05.920 marries a 30 year old in oldie times they certainly had good luck in terms of like their children not

00:12:13.640 dying in infancy and margaret not dying in childbirth um they had five surviving children

00:12:19.060 whose names were henry arthur reginald jeffrey and ursula i'm kind of excited to have a reginald

00:12:28.760 and an ursula show up unusual names for me in reading about this time period um but as she

00:12:37.460 was just like doing her best to not die in childbirth and she which worked very well for her 1.00

00:12:43.760 because she did not she was also like scheming scheming all the time surrounded by scheming I

00:12:48.860 don't think she was doing a lot of scheming herself I think she was just like by the time

00:12:51.980 she's 14 it's like she's lived through enough scheming she's just like let's just have some

00:12:55.220 stability have some babies and just like not do treason or be around treason but everybody around

00:13:02.320 or was doing treason so for instance um midway through when she was having her babies a man

00:13:10.220 showed up on the scene whose name was perkin warbeck which is a great name and also a fake

00:13:15.700 name and he claimed to be one of the long lost grown-up princess in the tower who were the

00:13:22.700 heirs to hot edward that richard iii may be murdered um but he's like guess what we weren't

00:13:28.420 murdered and it's me i'm back and it's sort of like an anastasia scenario where it's like i

00:13:34.100 left but now i'm back and actually i should be king and stuff and this is lots of people

00:13:40.520 written about this i'm gonna say perkin warbeck almost definitely not margaret's long lost cousin

00:13:46.080 slash heir to the throne but his presence was convenient for anyone who wanted to get henry

00:13:51.580 kicked off the throne to just like pretend they believed that he was real because their people

00:13:56.580 didn't like Henry because there have been so many kings and people are just used to like not liking

00:14:01.660 who the king is anyway one of the supporters of Perkin Warbeck who was like yeah I bet you should

00:14:08.160 be the king was Margaret's younger brother Edward and so the thing is pretending to be a long-lost

00:14:15.020 prince was not technically illegal I guess but King Henry VII was like let's just keep an eye

00:14:20.780 on this guy like clearly this is sort of like a nexus point for people who want to get rid of me

00:14:26.060 as being king so let's just like see what he's up to and everything was kind of weirdly cool

00:14:32.560 perkin warbeck just like hung out on the scene until it became clear that perkin had been

00:14:38.800 scheming with margaret's brother edward to overthrow king henry vii and that's you know

00:14:43.980 crossing a line that is treason so edward and perkin were both sent to the tower of london

00:14:51.320 and then were executed for this pretty pretty bad like unsuccessful but also just like poorly

00:14:56.900 thought out scheme the death of her only brother and then margaret was now the last remaining 0.98

00:15:03.020 heir to the warwick fortune inheritance and also kind of the last remaining plantagenet

00:15:10.740 um in her family tree so oh no what happened was so he was dead but because he was a traitor all

00:15:20.600 of his lands and inheritance were taken away from him so edward's inheritance the neville money from

00:15:26.840 their grandfather warwick was now returned to the crown leaving margaret without any inheritance

00:15:31.620 whatsoever just because the men in her family kept being traitors and that's a sucky thing for just

00:15:39.100 law for women clearly but she was married and her husband was guess what not a traitor so she and

00:15:47.620 her husband went on to be awarded prestigious positions within the royal household so it's kind

00:15:51.960 of like yes they took away all of her money and lands and inheritance but they're like but we

00:15:56.440 don't hold it against you personally margaret so henry vii's older son was prince arthur and he

00:16:05.940 was engaged to be married to catherine of aragon and when catherine of aragon arrived from spain

00:16:12.140 and this is like what the show the spanish princess is about um margaret was named lady

00:16:18.140 in waiting to catherine and her husband richard was named chief gentleman of the privy chamber

00:16:23.960 to arthur who was the oldest son of the king and then of course uh things took a turn because

00:16:32.540 prince arthur passed away unexpectedly of the sweating sickness right i did a whole thing of

00:16:38.820 one of my pandemic special podcasts was about sweating sickness i believe he was one of the 0.63

00:16:43.420 victims of it anyway 1502 arthur passed away so then it's like holy shit like because arthur had

00:16:50.040 been raised to be the new king his brother his younger brother henry had been raised to be like

00:16:54.640 um you know priest guy and now it's like oh my god now henry has to be king so catherine of

00:17:01.260 aragon and arthur's entourage was dissolved which meant that margaret was sent away because

00:17:06.460 she was no longer needed to be a lady in waiting um and then let's see

00:17:13.180 and then in 1504 she had her fifth child which was Ursula and at the same time her husband

00:17:21.740 Richard died I'm not sure of what but I'm just gonna guess dysentery I'm gonna guess illness

00:17:27.400 because there wasn't a lot of like wars going on but I can double check that later um so Margaret

00:17:34.500 here's the situation single mother widow five children one literally a baby a newborn um she 1.00

00:17:43.700 was now penniless and a mother five because she didn't have any of her own inheritance and then 1.00

00:17:48.820 like when husbands die the wives don't always get the money it goes to the men's man relatives or

00:17:54.460 whatever so with nowhere else to turn she went with her children to live in an abbey with nuns

00:17:59.980 because she's just like well i'm i'm like the most royal person in england right now because 0.96

00:18:06.280 of all my various relatives but because of all the stupid treasons around me i have no money 0.77

00:18:10.400 and i have five children and so she went to live with the nuns um and then she further cut costs 0.94

00:18:16.720 by shipping her son reginald off to be trained for the priesthood because that's like one less

00:18:20.400 child for her to support i guess but keep that in mind because reginald becomes very important

00:18:25.820 later on he becomes a very successful priest person but then it's just like her life is just

00:18:34.700 kind of like that's good that's bad that's good that's bad like like that children's book because

00:18:40.360 it's it just keeps seeming like oh my god poor her and then suddenly her things change but it

00:18:44.980 seems like mostly not in her control although maybe she was just like used her social skills

00:18:51.580 to really make people not forget about her and want to help her so 1504 her husband died

00:19:00.160 she went to live with nuns five years later 1509 um so henry viii died and henry viii took the

00:19:12.240 throne as the young hot king and he didn't have a beard yet i don't think he was married to

00:19:21.200 Catherine of Aragon no one knew what a nightmare he's going to be later in life I was just like

00:19:24.720 yay we have a new young hot king and they were happy about it so although Henry VII had not been

00:19:31.100 especially fond of Margaret Henry VIII was because he remembered how she was like such a nice lady

00:19:37.040 and waiting to Catherine of Aragon before and Henry VIII was like guess who I'm gonna marry

00:19:40.300 my brother's widow Catherine of Aragon and so they invited Margaret back to court to be lady

00:19:45.620 waiting once more this time lady in waiting to the queen three years later henry the eighth

00:19:51.700 further elevated margaret's status by restoring her former title of countess countess of salisbury

00:19:57.880 along with some of her late brothers seized lands so you know what like i'm saying this all sort of

00:20:05.060 like passive voice like henry just decided these things randomly but he did not that's not how

00:20:09.900 things work there like people would be like suggesting things to him um people would be

00:20:15.060 trying to like advance their own whatever so margaret either herself or very powerful people 0.78

00:20:20.620 who supported her would have been like what if you just like do nice things to margaret pole and

00:20:24.540 he agreed to do it which is good good for her so i'm gonna keep that in mind later when we get to 1.00

00:20:30.560 scheminess because frankly like she would not be have had this many comebacks if she was just

00:20:36.760 sitting around being like maybe king henry the eights will be nice to me if i'm just quiet and

00:20:41.460 don't do anything so I think she's like behind the scenes getting getting um things done but

00:20:48.440 also she's friends with Catherine of Aragon maybe Catherine of Aragon would have like mentioned to

00:20:53.220 Henry this would be nice to do so this is great she's got a title she's got some of her lands back

00:20:58.900 um and then I wrote this summary of like the next 10 years which is her own favorite court 0.99

00:21:07.560 waxed and waned partly due to her own actions and partly due to those of her children because

00:21:11.560 her children were like um very independent minded so in 1516 she fought with henry the eighth over

00:21:21.640 some lands she felt should go to her but he disagreed and retained them for himself um

00:21:27.740 but clearly he favored her because in 1520 um she was selected to act as the governess

00:21:35.860 to his first legitimate child um princess mary who would later be queen mary the first um

00:21:43.700 and i'll just mention at this point because it's going to change in a bit but at this point like

00:21:49.200 everyone in england is like catholic that's what's happening henry the eighth catholic catherine of

00:21:53.380 aragon catholic uh margaret pole catholic like princess mary catholic everyone's just like

00:21:58.640 that's our religion we're england and we are catholic divorce isn't cool and we love the

00:22:05.300 pope etc so at around the same time that margaret was appointed to be the governess which is like

00:22:12.440 super influential and it just shows how much catherine and henry really regarded her and

00:22:17.420 thought she was like a good role model and stuff also she had you know five children clearly she

00:22:21.800 knows what to do with kids so her son arthur margaret's son arthur was appointed to be one

00:22:28.460 of the gentlemen of the king's privy chamber and i'm sure you've talked about this but just to

00:22:32.600 recap if you forgot or if we haven't talked about it those are like the people who go with the king

00:22:37.820 into his toilet room and so it's really important about that job and why it's very prestigious

00:22:44.980 is that that's when like there's very few people allowed when the king is pooing

00:22:49.360 and so if you're in there then like you have a chance to like really tell him your point of view

00:22:54.640 and like convince him about things because the whole thing of the king is like he makes his

00:22:58.980 decisions based on what people are advising him to do so if you're with him when he's pooing like

00:23:03.060 he really listens to you and it shows and also it shows he really trusts you because he's so

00:23:06.820 you know vulnerable in front of you so this is a great honor that her son arthur got to go with

00:23:11.900 him into the poo palace um but then her son arthur so he had a patron which i guess like

00:23:19.060 courtiers just like had i guess a patron is like also sort of like a mentor anyway arthur's patron

00:23:26.260 was edward stafford the duke of buckingham on forage he was found edward stafford was found

00:23:33.560 guilty of treason and was what i wrote as gruesomely executed thank you past self for

00:23:39.880 not going into detail but i'm sure gruesomely executed um buckingham's actions tainted the

00:23:46.700 reputation of arthur because that was like his mentee and this also tainted margaret's daughter

00:23:52.540 Ursula who at this point was married to one of Stafford's sons this is why you just gotta not

00:23:57.140 do treason because it's just gonna wreck things for your kids Margaret was also affected by this 0.84

00:24:04.520 um skinned owl because she was removed from the position of governess due to her connection to 0.97

00:24:09.160 this like e.g it was her son's mentor maybe she'd like chosen him as the mentor or whatever 1.00

00:24:14.220 and yet because of her like soft skills are like being subtle and explaining her case to people

00:24:23.640 and getting them to agree with her she managed to regain her previous standing and was reappointed

00:24:28.860 to the role of princess mary's governor governess in 1525 but then um everything changed when the

00:24:37.040 whole anne boleyn scenario happened when henry the eighth was like here's the thing i'm in love

00:24:43.600 with anne boleyn and i want to marry her and to do that i have to divorce her mom but we can't

00:24:51.980 divorce because we're catholic and then he's like well what if i get an annulment because

00:24:57.180 my wife catherine aragon was married to my brother arthur before and if they had sex it 0.92

00:25:01.880 says in the bible like don't have sex with someone your brother had sex with and the pope is like 0.98

00:25:05.620 still no and then henry's like well then screw you the pope i'm gonna be anglican now and england 0.99

00:25:12.040 became not catholic anymore that's my summary of that um and so an effect of this so when henry

00:25:21.860 the eighth annulled his marriage to catherine of aragon um princess mary became no longer princess

00:25:29.660 she was now just lady mary and she had all of her household staff removed which included margaret

00:25:34.580 but margaret was fiercely loyal to her because she'd been her governess for a long time and 0.82

00:25:38.960 their like relatives and whatever and she offered to stay on as governess she even offered to pay

00:25:43.440 her own salary henry refused the proposal and margot was sent away from the royal court

00:25:49.320 um frankly that was probably just better for her mental health as well because things at court were

00:25:56.660 just like bananas there in the whole anne boleyn scenario where it's like they got married and

00:26:03.060 then she was was tried and executed for totally fake charges of adultery and everything was quite

00:26:09.580 chaotic so you know what good for you like just step away from that but in fact um margaret's

00:26:15.400 eldest son henry was actually one of the jurors um who's on the jury that found anne boleyn guilty

00:26:21.840 so after anne boleyn was beheaded in 1536 margaret was again invited back to royal court i can feel

00:26:29.380 her being like rather not but i'm sure she was like yes i'm back in um but her son reginald who

00:26:38.760 we last talked about when he was sent off to train to be a priest when he was a little boy

00:26:42.100 and they were living with nuns he's gonna complicate things very soon um and then we

00:26:50.280 need to get into a new side character who is a person named justus chapuis who was the spanish

00:26:56.460 ambassador and he's also a character in the tutors if you watch that show he is also one

00:27:02.860 of the main sources that like literally every historian has for learning about what was going

00:27:06.600 on in the court of henry the eighth because he wrote a lot of very gossipy letters he was the

00:27:11.040 gossip girl slash tmz of his of his age he eustace was hanging on tutor court for years reporting

00:27:21.060 back to catherine of aragon's parents about how catherine was being treated and then how

00:27:26.320 catherine of aragon's daughter mary was being treated um his records are obviously biased but

00:27:31.520 they're also very i wrote here they're also very thorough and contain lots of exciting gossipy bits

00:27:37.180 like he did not hold back with what he was seeing what was going on sort of like what's that thing

00:27:41.980 it's like page six or like had a hopper in hollywood he's just like oh my god you'll never

00:27:46.900 guess who i just saw like it's a it's a good record and like some of it's probably true and

00:27:51.920 some of it's maybe not true he obviously had a slant of like supporting of catholics and spain

00:27:57.620 but anyway so eustace was a supporter of lady mary formerly princess mary he wanted her to be

00:28:05.880 made a princess again and he seems to have been encouraging margaret's son reginald

00:28:11.480 to marry Lady Mary and what would happen as we heard with like Catherine Gray and all of that

00:28:18.920 it's like when someone has like a lot of ties to the royal family and someone has a lot of ties

00:28:22.920 to another branch of the royal family and they get married that's like a big declaration of like

00:28:27.680 our babies could be king so because of Margaret's Plantagenet background and therefore her son

00:28:34.840 reginalds and then mary being the daughter of henry the eighth like if they got married

00:28:40.540 um that would be a big deal some people saw margaret's sons as potential heirs to the throne

00:28:46.140 and that's the thing is that henry the eighth's whole thing is like i need a son because i need 0.87

00:28:51.280 to have a son who'll be the king because girls can't be kings they can be queens but i don't

00:28:55.940 want that so people are just looking around to be like henry the eighth not having sons like

00:29:00.840 who are some boys anyway so some people looked at margaret's sons to be maybe that so if reginald

00:29:05.700 married mary that would be like a powerful alliance and what it would be is a powerful

00:29:10.740 catholic alternative to henry the eighth who was protestant so because eustace was in england

00:29:18.780 and reginald had basically peaced out he was off on quote the continent because he was sort of a

00:29:26.360 renegade catholic who enemy of henry the eighth he couldn't be in england because he'd probably

00:29:31.060 arrested so eustace and reginald were exchanging letters about their various schemes many of the

00:29:37.420 letters went through reginald's brother jeffrey pole as an intermediary but reginald was like

00:29:43.660 not enough for me to just try and marry the king's daughter he was also running around continental

00:29:48.800 europe doing his best to convince other princes and kings that henry the eighth should be deposed

00:29:53.720 for how he'd broken with the catholic church because reginald like set up as a child to be

00:29:58.140 trained as a priest to like clearly suited him well because he's just like all in re-catholicism

00:30:03.680 but the people he talked to were mostly like good luck but we're not gonna help you with this

00:30:09.760 reggie in 1537 reginald still catholic i mean he's gonna spoiler reginald is never not catholic

00:30:19.260 but he's he's like an enemy of england but he's like cool with the pope and catholicism he attained

00:30:26.080 the role of cardinal and the pope assigned him a very important job to help coordinate a series

00:30:31.340 of english marches and protests meant to force henry the eighth to replace his protestant

00:30:35.520 government with a catholic one so reginald is like i'm on it and part of this was an event

00:30:42.080 called the pilgrimage of grace which was like quite unsuccessful and led to a lot of people

00:30:49.020 being executed for their involvement in it yeah 200 catholics were executed for being involved

00:30:55.380 in it so reginald arranged it so like good job reginald but then like maybe tenor the eighth

00:31:00.340 is a bit more powerful than he and the pope had anticipated so basically reginald pole

00:31:05.760 margaret's son was all up in every plan to dethrone henry the eighth and it was being

00:31:10.260 communicated in letters through his brother jeffrey to various people so king henry the eighth

00:31:17.300 this is right hand like fixer was thomas cromwell at this point um thomas cromwell was just like we

00:31:25.000 got to get rid of this reginald pole like what's he doing like oh he's trying to get rid of the

00:31:29.560 king all the time okay so thomas cromwell tried to send assassins to italy to kill reginald did

00:31:35.460 not work two episodes of this podcast in a row was just failed assassinations um this all left 0.97

00:31:41.580 margaret pole in a precarious situation because she um you know she had to choose

00:31:47.980 was she going to support her treasonous son in italy against the king or was she going to support

00:31:54.520 the king and she chose the king and she wrote letters being like don't love what reginald's

00:32:01.260 doing i still support you henry but henry was just like real big mad about this all

00:32:06.420 um and because reginald was off in the continent um and the assassins wouldn't work henry couldn't

00:32:13.200 arrest him so the king was just like who can i arrest i'm so mad about this so he turned his

00:32:17.440 vengeance against the pole family still in england so jeffrey the one who had been couriering the

00:32:24.460 letters was arrested um under torture jeffrey implicated his older brother henry pole as well

00:32:32.180 a man named henry courtney who was henry the eighth's cousin and also margaret pole's cousin

00:32:37.320 um in response to this henry the eighth had basically every pole family member arrested he

00:32:44.160 could find including margaret who was like in her 60s at this time i think she's like 65

00:32:48.440 like what did she do come on um and then weirdly so following the investigation and more torture

00:32:56.740 only jeffrey was pardoned like jeffrey was the one who's giving the letters so i'm not sure

00:33:01.280 what that story is perhaps some man's historian can fill in those blanks for us

00:33:06.840 um everyone else other than jeffrey maybe he cut a deal i don't know did they do that

00:33:14.060 then could you cut deals like in law and order but like tudor era side note that'd be a cool show

00:33:22.780 law and order colon tudor era um if you know dick wolf let him know that um

00:33:29.400 so jeffrey was pardoned but everyone else including 65 year old margaret who like never

00:33:35.540 did anything to anybody were found guilty of high treason and sentenced to be executed like

00:33:40.020 for what just because of reginald reginald um as part of the evidence against margaret thomas

00:33:47.800 carmel produced a tunic so presumably the word meaning the same thing then as it does now

00:33:53.660 basically like a little shirt or like a long shirt with a design on it showing the five wounds

00:33:59.980 of christ which he said symbolized margaret's support for roman catholicism and of her son

00:34:05.420 the exiled cardinal which is like a reach especially because thomas carmel just quote

00:34:11.820 unquote discovered this tunic with this like embroidery this like treason embroidery on it

00:34:17.700 six months after her households were searched so like clearly it was a fabrication and he just

00:34:24.120 brought it in to like really make sure she was executed because like why what did she ever do 0.95

00:34:28.700 um so margaret just like had happened to her dad slash like every man in her life ever um so she 1.00

00:34:36.360 had all of her land stripped away she had her title stripped away instead of being countess 0.99

00:34:41.960 of Salisbury she's now just called Margaret Pole so she had no assets to her name and her name

00:34:49.300 was just Margaret Pole and she's just like what is this family curse that this keeps happening 0.99

00:34:55.280 to everyone I know and now to me so this is the women trapped in towers and the assholes who sent 0.99

00:35:00.620 them there and in this case the assholes who sent Margaret there were Henry VIII and Thomas 0.96

00:35:04.940 Cromwell she remained a prisoner in the Tower of London for two and a half years but in the like 0.79

00:35:09.740 luxurious rich person way so she was kept in a room together with her grandson

00:35:16.640 so her son Henry's son also named Henry because of course as well as the young son of her cousin

00:35:23.860 Henry Courtney so it's kind of like how she was the governess to Lady Mary for a while but now

00:35:28.520 she's just like jail governess to children and I you know I'm sure at times like all of us in

00:35:37.060 quarantine having other people around can be like a nice distraction and fun and sometimes you're

00:35:41.580 just like can i have a minute to myself without two toddlers here so i feel for her there um

00:35:48.500 so as per many of the royals and aristocrats held in the tower as prisoners margaret kept 1.00

00:35:53.200 living a fairly luxurious life with her own servants and an allowance for new clothing 1.00

00:35:57.140 love it um she was still let's see in fact she received a grant of fine clothing so someone

00:36:05.900 which is like we give you clothing in march 1541 from the current queen's wardrobe and henry like

00:36:12.880 went through his wives really fast at this point but so at this point the queen was katherine howard

00:36:17.580 and the story goes katherine howard henry the eighth's fifth wife empathize she felt badly

00:36:24.360 for the elderly countess i'm gonna say 67 i wouldn't call her elderly i wouldn't call some

00:36:29.620 67 elderly in a current 2021 context but i feel like in a tutor era sure i would say

00:36:36.820 katherine howard felt bad for the golden years countess in the tower and requested her tailor

00:36:44.820 to send some comforting items such as a fur nightgown and fur slippers love that image of a

00:36:52.120 fur furred nightgown and fur slippers imagine like if you're i'm sure it's cold even now to

00:36:58.500 be in one of these to be in the Tower of London or one of these old stone castles like fur would

00:37:02.160 just be so great we don't know if Catherine specifically felt bad for Margaret herself

00:37:09.280 or if she was just being like I'm the queen and it's my duty to like upcycle some of my old clothes

00:37:16.760 to somebody else and we have the same shoe size and here you go anyway whilst Margaret was imprisoned

00:37:23.040 during these two and a half years Thomas Cromwell himself was arrested and executed because Henry

00:37:28.260 was fully in his like tyrant phase of just like killing everybody all the time um so one would

00:37:35.940 hope and margaret probably hoped like okay well the guy who like literally like framed me and

00:37:41.380 sent me here if he's been found a traitor then like doesn't that make me be not a traitor so

00:37:46.240 maybe she would be set free she would probably hope but despite crommel's fall from grace

00:37:51.680 margaret's execution date was set until the end margaret claimed her innocence um she stated no

00:37:59.120 crime had been imputed to her and that she was wrongly judged which i think is all true according

00:38:05.000 to popular belief a poem was found carved on the wall of her cell which goes and i mean the popular 0.85

00:38:11.400 belief said she wrote this so it goes for traitors on the block should die i am no traitor no not i

00:38:19.720 my faithfulness stands fast and so towards the block i shall not go nor make one step as you

00:38:25.500 shall see christ in thy mercy save thou me but this poem did not help and margaret was beheaded

00:38:35.400 age 67 on may 27th 1541 due to her noble birth like the fact that like parents grandparents

00:38:42.980 great-grandparents like every level of her entire family were like wildly noble this was not a public

00:38:49.340 execution um but it was rather held before a group of about 150 notable witnesses and maybe

00:38:55.000 this is just the like pandemic in me but i feel like 150 people is not that private um anyway the

00:39:04.700 group of 150 witnesses included Eustace Chapuis the Spanish ambassador who had been conspiring

00:39:12.960 with her son and is kind of like one might say partially responsible for all this and it's from

00:39:17.960 his gossip girl blog that we learn details such as margaret continued to deny any involvement in

00:39:25.400 treasonous activities he also says that with a regular executioner unavailable her execution

00:39:30.940 was performed by a less skilled man who literally hacked her head and shoulders to pieces in the

00:39:35.180 most pitiful manner you um margaret's remains were laid to rest in the chapel of saint peter

00:39:44.100 ad vincula within the tower of london her eldest son henry pole was executed at the same time

00:39:50.240 as was her cousin henry courtney and yet all other family members were eventually released

00:39:56.260 from the tower of london this whole thing is a big question mark to me like what's

00:40:00.200 henry just wanted to get was he just like hoping to like lure reginald back in by killing his

00:40:05.800 whole family i don't know but guess what jokes on you henry the eighth because reginald became

00:40:11.560 um so after henry the eighth died his catholic daughter took the throne as mary the first and

00:40:19.920 she's like guess what england we're catholic again and she made reginald pole the archbishop

00:40:27.040 of canterbury which is a super high and important post and he was in fact the last catholic to hold

00:40:32.840 that post because every ruler after them was protestant again following his mother's execution

00:40:39.000 reginald pole said he would never fear to call himself the son of a martyr and 345 years later

00:40:46.820 in 1886 margaret pole became literally that because in 1886 um she was named the blessed

00:40:58.060 margaret pole under the roman catholic church which is kind of like one step below being a saint

00:41:03.780 so that's her end of story it's all it's quite a saga ups and downs and how much of what happened

00:41:17.760 to her was just like wrong place wrong time wrong like bloodline and how much was her actually like

00:41:24.040 she really truly did not seem to be involved in what reginald was up to and i think it just 0.99

00:41:28.580 fucking sucks that henry the eighth was like well let's just kill her whatever i'm glad you got some 0.98

00:41:34.000 first lepers before she died so to score our friend margaret pole scandalousness i feel is 1.00

00:41:45.080 quite low because she was surrounded by scandalousness like father was a traitor brother

00:41:50.220 was a traitor like literally everyone around her her uncle was richard the third like all these

00:41:54.380 things were happening around her and sometimes it sort of tainted her but she always came back

00:41:59.480 like she specifically herself was not super scandalicious in the way that we talk about

00:42:06.280 scandaliciousness like i'm sure to another person or people back then being associated with like

00:42:11.440 catholic rebels and treason is like very scandalicious but i'm talking like affairs

00:42:16.640 murders um tits out lifestyle and she was just like that was not her thing and that's fine i

00:42:23.780 inspector for it but i'm getting it for a three a three for scandalousness i think just because 0.96

00:42:29.980 scandalousness by proxy um scheminess this is where i feel like i don't have specific examples 0.65

00:42:38.320 of what she herself did that was schemey other than like writing lies to the king being like

00:42:43.000 hey guess what i side with you not my son who sucks but the fact that she was like had her

00:42:49.300 titles taken away got them back like was the governess was kicked out became governess again 0.88

00:42:54.040 like she clearly was like working some scheminess i'm gonna give her a nine a nine for scheminess

00:43:00.920 her significance now her significance to like the catholic church to whom she is

00:43:06.840 like halfway to being a saint that's quite significant i would say um henry the eighth

00:43:13.820 clearly thought she was significant enough to like kill um her son became archbishop canterbury

00:43:19.060 her significance to like global slash world history is not extreme

00:43:27.380 not as much as like cleopatra or whatever so i think a six for significance and then

00:43:37.120 for the sexism bonus i'm gonna give her 0.99

00:43:40.680 i think a nine because she well just everything like the whole like she 1.00

00:43:49.020 would have been the heir except she was a girl so then her brother was the heir but then because

00:43:53.920 of then he was a traitor so then no one was the heir like the king just seized the lands instead

00:43:58.280 of giving it to her like and then the way that she was blamed for the acts of her sons like what 0.96

00:44:04.000 like yeah she was literally she gave birth to them but like how is she supposed to stop them 0.78

00:44:07.680 once they're adult people i feel like well and then also the whole thing when her husband died

00:44:12.940 and she's like well i guess now i'm just like a penniless mother of five i'll go like live with

00:44:16.840 the nuns because society has no means to support me even though i'm like super royal

00:44:24.000 yeah sexism bonus nine i feel comfortable with that so it's 18

00:44:29.860 27 that's a 27

00:44:34.380 which is one mark one mark one point higher than last week's margaret of anjou who got a 26

00:44:46.840 um isabella of castile also is at a 27 john de lamont catherine parr francis gray like this is a

00:44:54.040 definitely a respectable mark and i feel like this season is shaping up

00:44:57.780 excitingly because we're getting to some much more scandalicious stuff so we'll see where

00:45:02.820 everybody lands on the scale but that's why i balance with the scandaliciousness with the

00:45:06.260 significance because sometimes someone like tits out francis howard you think would be at the top

00:45:09.780 but it's like her significance to my heart 10 out of 10 but her significance to like history

00:45:15.180 not quite as much um and then i have a recommendation for you as well um because

00:45:25.500 that's a new thing i'm doing this season to recommend other history resources to you

00:45:30.800 to sort of complement like it's easy to um not easy there's some major people and stuff in

00:45:40.240 history that there's so much written about and that's like um world war ii battles um there's a

00:45:46.960 lot of books about like winston churchill there's a lot of books about like henry the eighth um

00:45:51.660 but trying to find information about not royals not battles so talking about women and especially

00:45:59.720 like not rich women take so much more digging and i really appreciate the people who are out

00:46:07.560 are doing that digging for us and i just just finished reading a book which i've been meaning

00:46:11.200 to read for ages and i finally did and it's so good um and it's exactly this it's like the perfect

00:46:17.460 book like if i could write a history book i would love it to be like as good as this so it's a book

00:46:22.140 called the five by hallie rubenhold and so what she's done hallie rubenhold is she tells the

00:46:29.500 stories of the five five of the women who were killed by the serial killer known as jack the

00:46:34.540 Ripper in oldie times London and this is part of why I was saying at the beginning of the episode

00:46:39.220 it's like just because someone's life ends horrifically doesn't mean that retroactively

00:46:45.100 their whole life was sad necessarily right it's like how you die isn't the most important thing

00:46:51.480 that happens to you for most people I would think and so if I say I was trying to tell my friend

00:46:58.300 about this book and I was like yeah it's about the woman who killed by Jack the Ripper and she's

00:47:00.640 like oh no that sounds depressing I'm like no it's not it's actually like really really really

00:47:04.020 really interesting social history so it's five women who lived in 1888 in london and

00:47:11.520 hallie rubenhold has done incredible amounts of research just pieced together what these five like

00:47:16.720 ordinary women like they were not wealthy they were not rich they didn't like invent something 1.00

00:47:22.460 like there's so many books out now that are like women who did cool stuff and these are just like

00:47:26.400 women who just like got by and we're just everyday people so i'm gonna read you a bit

00:47:33.840 from the blurb of it because it'll explain it better than i can um

00:47:40.040 polly annie elizabeth catherine and mary jane are famous for the same thing though they never met

00:47:46.740 um they came from fleet street knightsbridge wolverhampton sweden and wales they wrote

00:47:51.480 ballads ran coffee houses lived on country estates they breathed ink dust from printing

00:47:55.720 presses and escape people traffickers. What they had in common was the year of their murders,

00:48:00.360 1888. The person responsible was never identified, but the character created by the press to fill

00:48:05.480 that gap has become far more famous than any of these five women. For more than a century,

00:48:10.320 newspapers have been keen to tell us that the Ripper preyed on prostitutes. Not only is this 0.57

00:48:14.780 untrue, as historian Hallie Rubenhold has discovered, it has prevented the real stories

00:48:19.380 of these fascinating women from being told. Now, in this devastating narrative of five lives,

00:48:24.460 rubenhold finally sets the record straight revealing a world not just of dickens and

00:48:27.980 queen victoria but of poverty homelessness and rampant misogyny they died because they were in

00:48:33.080 the wrong place at the wrong time but their greatest misfortune was to be born a woman

00:48:37.480 oh it's such a good book it's so interesting it mentions there i forget which one of them it is

00:48:41.500 but one of them like literally was like selling ballads on the street so interesting um it's just

00:48:50.040 a really interesting thing to learn about i love this stuff like how people lived what were their

00:48:53.640 emotions like what were their lives like and for several of these five women it's like what happens

00:48:58.240 when you're abandoned by your husband and i mean like we saw in this story like margaret pole was

00:49:02.800 like every privilege in the world but once her husband died it's like and now you have to go

00:49:07.400 live with nuns because there's no social support net so for the women in these stories like what

00:49:12.600 happens to them and how do they get by i want to really emphasize the book is not depressing 0.55

00:49:17.680 in the way that you might expect it's super interesting to see what these women are like 0.99

00:49:21.800 and then as each story kind of gets towards the end you're just like oh no she's gonna

00:49:26.260 be murdered but it's like there's so much interesting stuff besides how they died and

00:49:29.940 that's it's so interesting and i quickly just said like there is sort of like the

00:49:37.520 common belief that jack the ripper was killing like streetwalkers like sex workers and of the

00:49:44.940 women in the story only one of them was doing that as a job that we know of not that like it's

00:49:52.720 so easy to dismiss the victims of violence today as well right with which victim blaming it's like

00:49:58.100 you can really focus on who was the killer and what were their motives or whatever it's easier

00:50:05.000 to do that when you are able to treat the victims as just sort of like collateral but the story

00:50:11.560 really frames them like this book shows you who they are as people and once like for me having

00:50:20.340 learned about them like this like in the epilogue of the book Haley Rubin Hall like just like guts

00:50:25.360 you she just talks about how you know there's like the Jack the Ripper walking tours and like

00:50:29.680 postcards and like funny pop-up books and whatever and it's like yeah and they like use like the 0.98

00:50:33.980 quote-unquote hilarious like blood spatter patterns of these women on a tote bag or whatever 0.88

00:50:37.940 right you're just like this is so fucked up and there's so many things that are like that 0.97

00:50:42.340 um that are so fucked up that are based on denying the humanity of people so anyway i love i love 0.97

00:50:50.440 this book a lot and so i'm recommending it to you um you can get it as an audiobook as well that's 0.96

00:50:54.980 how i read it and the audiobook reader was great um and then the only other things i have to tell

00:51:01.660 you are i made myself a list so i don't forget to tell you anything so you can follow this podcast

00:51:09.120 on instagram at vulgar history pod we're on twitter at vulgar history i have a patreon which

00:51:15.060 if you go to patreon.com slash ann foster writer that's where if you pledge a little bit of money

00:51:19.440 um you get some extra content from me including one extra podcast per month even when i'm not

00:51:25.920 doing vulgar history podcasts i'm doing other podcasts um the ones i do there right now are 0.88

00:51:31.340 mostly so this asshole is the theme where i just kind of like look up a gross guy from history and 0.62

00:51:36.420 then just like explain why he's the worst i recently just did captain john smith who is 0.97

00:51:41.680 so awful um there's so many awful men we're meeting this season in the show i it'll give me

00:51:47.680 many months of content for that little side podcast you can listen to there um we have a

00:51:54.180 teespring store um i'm hopefully by the time this publishes i will have some merch up there

00:51:59.960 for this season's women trapped in towers theme but there's also merch there from previous seasons

00:52:05.140 you've got tits out francis howard you've got um mask on tits out slogans lots of cute stuff t-shirts

00:52:12.960 and various things um and then also like for the book the five by hallie rubenhold um it'd be 0.99

00:52:21.140 i recommend reading it however you read it whatever no judgment but there is um a website

00:52:26.640 called bookshop.org. And when you buy stuff through them, it gives the money to independent

00:52:31.860 bookstores who need so much support. And I love supporting independent bookstores. And I have a

00:52:36.480 list there of all the books that I've used as referenced on the show and also ones that I have

00:52:41.160 used as references. So the link to that is in the show notes as well. And I guess that's everything.

00:52:50.060 There's more episodes to come. Isn't it fun? Isn't it fun to have another season going on? I'm excited

00:52:54.460 to to bring you more stories next week all i can say is next week's woman is not named margaret

00:52:59.520 but there will be more than one more margaret coming up this season because i don't know

00:53:05.840 margaret's just gets stuck in towers more than other people anyway i hope you're all doing as

00:53:12.600 well as you can in these unprecedented times um book your vaccination if you can and as ever keep 0.98

00:53:20.420 your mask on and your tits 0.99

00:53:22.220 out. 1.00

00:53:39.260 The war is over and both

00:53:42.440 sides lost. Kingdoms were

00:53:44.340 reduced to cinders and armies

00:53:46.520 scattered like bones in the

00:53:48.340 dust. Now the survivors

00:53:50.300 claw to what's left of a broken world,

00:53:53.360 praying the darkness chooses someone else tonight.

00:53:56.640 But in the shadow dark, the darkness always wins.

00:54:00.920 This is old school adventuring at its most cruel.

00:54:04.420 Your torch ticks down in real time.

00:54:06.720 And when that flame dies,

00:54:08.220 something else rises to finish the job.

00:54:10.320 This is a brutal rules light nightmare

00:54:12.520 with a story that emerges organically

00:54:15.220 based on the decisions that the characters make.

00:54:17.840 This is what it felt like to play RPGs in the 80s

00:54:20.240 and man, it is so good to be back.

00:54:22.640 Join the Glass Cannon podcast

00:54:23.840 as we plunge into the shadow dark

00:54:25.600 every Thursday night at 8 p.m. Eastern

00:54:27.660 on youtube.com slash the glass cannon

00:54:29.940 with the podcast version dropping the next day.

00:54:33.320 See what everybody's talking about

00:54:34.620 and join us in the dark.

00:54:40.160 There are vampires out there.

00:54:42.620 They walk among you, shoulder to shoulder, in the dark.

00:54:45.620 Heading to work, heading home, going to the bar.

00:54:48.140 It's a life just like anyone else's.

00:54:50.240 and I have grown used to it, to the darkness, to the moon, to the taste of blood on my tongue.

00:54:56.140 But vampires are dying out. We are a fading kind, and I am the first one created in so long,

00:55:02.900 and that is a dangerous thing to be. Those who came before me, elders of all stripes,

00:55:07.520 they do not want to see our kind gone, and they will do anything to keep their power.

00:55:12.580 And for myself, and for Grace, who created me, that is a sword that hangs above our heads.

00:55:17.440 and the worst person of all carries our secret

00:55:20.640 and he will use it however he sees fit.

00:55:24.580 Who do you look to when things are at their darkest?

00:55:27.920 From the creators of Parkdale Haunt comes Woodbine,

00:55:30.280 a podcast about monsters, dreams, and changes,

00:55:33.480 those you want and those you never saw coming.

00:55:36.720 Season 2 arrives September 24th, distributed by Realm.

00:55:40.640 Hi, I'm Whitney.

00:55:42.140 And I'm Katie.

00:55:43.160 And we're the hosts of True Crime Campfire.

00:55:45.820 We set out to make a true crime podcast we'd want to listen to.

00:55:49.300 We get right to the story.

00:55:50.800 We don't do a lot of extra talking, and when we do, 0.99

00:55:53.340 it's usually to roast the short hairs off of some loser, murderer, or scammer. 0.98

00:55:57.220 You'll laugh, but only at the people who deserve it. 0.98

00:55:59.860 Like, which serial killer would you most like to shove into a locker?

00:56:03.980 BTK and his awful poetry.

00:56:06.100 Dude got caught because he didn't understand what a floppy disk was.

00:56:09.560 We look for the stranger-than-fiction stories, like the case of Patty James,

00:56:13.600 a killer catfish before the internet was even a thing.

00:56:16.620 Or Howard Walmsley, a sentient wad of damp laundry

00:56:19.560 who convinced his town he'd won the lottery,

00:56:22.060 fleeced local businesses out of thousands,

00:56:24.240 and then became a romance scammer.

00:56:26.380 We've covered tons of cases you've never heard of. 0.97

00:56:29.060 Cults, scammers, killers.

00:56:30.920 So come find your next great binge. 0.90

00:56:33.040 Listen to True Crime Campfire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

00:56:36.420 or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:56:38.060 New episodes every Friday.

Vulgar History - May 12, 2021

Women Trapped in Towers, part two： The Oldest Woman Executed for Treason

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